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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: LarBrd33 on November 10, 2012, 04:14:53 PM

Title: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: LarBrd33 on November 10, 2012, 04:14:53 PM
Their two best bigs might be sitting on their bench

21 year old PF Derrick Favors (6-10, 250) ... 8 points, 8 rebounds, 2.2 blocks and a steal in only 22 minutes.

20 year old C Enes Kanter (6-11, 270)... 60% shooting, 5 points, 4 boards, 1 block in 15 minutes... was their best player in the preseason.

If they aren't their best right now... they are certainly that team's future.

...

Meanwhile both Millisap (8.6 mil) and Al Jefferson (15 mil) expire at the end of this year.  Either one of those guys would be a huge help for us.  That team is 2-4 right now. 

FWIW, I checked a Utah forum a couple weeks back and one of their own fans suggested trading Al Jefferson to Boston for Brandon Bass and Courtney Lee.  Keep an eye on Utah... I think it is very likely this could be a team we'll be trying to trade with once our players can be moved. 
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Edgar on November 10, 2012, 04:27:25 PM
absolutly, they have enough size to trade for me.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: LarBrd33 on November 10, 2012, 04:34:36 PM
Millisap is actually a bit undersized (he's only 6-8), but I'd be on board with bringing Big Al back.  He makes 15 mil this year (Bass + Lee would work when their contracts become tradeable) ... But I think we could probably re-sign him in the offseason for a more reasonable deal.

Al took his team to the playoffs last year and averaged 20, 10 and 2... I don't think Bass + LEe would be enough.  We'd probably have to throw in some 1sts... maybe Bradley...  But I'd be alright with that.  Al's got game and would look nice next to KG.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: KGs Knee on November 10, 2012, 04:43:28 PM
Bass and Lee only total approx $11m, which is $4m less.  We'd need to add another $3m to stay under the tax cap.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Kane3387 on November 10, 2012, 05:02:44 PM
I think I would rather have Milsap.

Utah won't want Bass or Lee though. More then likely they want the financial flexibility with all their quality players on rookie contracts rather then committing 11 million to a couple role players. Their bird rights are likely more valuable.

People think we have trade chips. We really don't. All of our guys are on long term deals and teams typically don't like to sign role players on long term deals.

If AB comes back and plays like last year then he is a trade chip. If Sully and or Fab Melo plays well consistently then they are trade chips.

Lee with 20 mill owed to him is not. Bass with 20 mill owed to him is not. Green with 36 mill owed to him is not. I would argue that Terry at 35 and owed 15 mill over three years isn't either unless a contender is acquiring him and Utah is not that. Utah isn't going to trade borderline All-Star Big Men on expiring deals for our guys unless they are named Rajon Rondo.

We have to be realistic here people.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: LooseCannon on November 10, 2012, 06:54:21 PM
Utah should be asking for an expiring contract, a young player, and decent draft pick.  I think a realistic deal for either Milsap or Jefferson involves a third team effectively giving the Celtics that expiring contract in exchange for players such as Bass or Green or Lee, plus compensation for taking on those contracts.

So, if you wanted Al Jefferson, it might be Bass/Lee and a first for an expiring contract that gets sent to Utah with another first and one of Bradley/Sullinger/Melo.

That seems like way too much to give up for what might turn out to be a rental.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: wdleehi on November 12, 2012, 08:59:57 AM
I think it will take a third team that wants Green. 
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Chris on November 12, 2012, 10:18:12 AM
I think it will take a third team that wants Green.

I actually think Utah was one of the prime locations for Green until they traded for Marvin Williams.  They have been desperate for wings the last few years, and given their inability to draw free agents, they might be more inclined to take on a contract of a guy like Green, and hope it pays off in the longrun.

But, like I said, Marvin Williams gives them a similar player.  I think Green is better, and they may think so too, but I think he is not nearly as valuable to them as he was before getting Williams.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: wdleehi on November 12, 2012, 10:29:12 AM
I think it will take a third team that wants Green.

I actually think Utah was one of the prime locations for Green until they traded for Marvin Williams.  They have been desperate for wings the last few years, and given their inability to draw free agents, they might be more inclined to take on a contract of a guy like Green, and hope it pays off in the longrun.

But, like I said, Marvin Williams gives them a similar player.  I think Green is better, and they may think so too, but I think he is not nearly as valuable to them as he was before getting Williams.


Completely agree.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Celtics18 on November 12, 2012, 10:59:41 AM
Al Jefferson would be a terrible fit for the Celtics.  He's most effective when he is spoon fed the ball on the low block so he can go to work.  In my opinion, he's not the kind of big that we should pair with Rondo for the future.  We need a big who's more of an athlete, floor runner, and pick and roll player. 

Derrick Favors?  Yeah, absolutely.  I don't see Utah giving him up, though.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: snively on November 12, 2012, 11:32:57 AM
I think I would rather have Milsap.

Utah won't want Bass or Lee though. More then likely they want the financial flexibility with all their quality players on rookie contracts rather then committing 11 million to a couple role players. Their bird rights are likely more valuable.

People think we have trade chips. We really don't. All of our guys are on long term deals and teams typically don't like to sign role players on long term deals.

If AB comes back and plays like last year then he is a trade chip. If Sully and or Fab Melo plays well consistently then they are trade chips.

Lee with 20 mill owed to him is not. Bass with 20 mill owed to him is not. Green with 36 mill owed to him is not. I would argue that Terry at 35 and owed 15 mill over three years isn't either unless a contender is acquiring him and Utah is not that. Utah isn't going to trade borderline All-Star Big Men on expiring deals for our guys unless they are named Rajon Rondo.

We have to be realistic here people.

I think Bass + a higher level asset (like Bradley) would actually be a very appealing offer to the Jazz for Millsap.  $6-$7 mil deals for young, proven rotation players aren't toxic - the Jazz just acquired Marvin Williams for Devin Harris as an example.

And Bass would fit that big rotation nicely; they have size, rebounding and some defensive potential, but they could really use an elite mid-range shooter like Bass to plug in between their paint-oriented bigs in the rotation. 

And they'd love Bradley - a year and a half on the rookie scale then restricted rights to a highly attractive prospect at a position of weakness. 
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 12, 2012, 11:34:36 AM
Al Jefferson would be a terrible fit for the Celtics.  He's most effective when he is spoon fed the ball on the low block so he can go to work.  In my opinion, he's not the kind of big that we should pair with Rondo for the future.  We need a big who's more of an athlete, floor runner, and pick and roll player. 

Derrick Favors?  Yeah, absolutely.  I don't see Utah giving him up, though.

Completely agree. I loved Big Al when he was here but a return to Celtics Green wouldn't benefit us in the least. He is a great offensive big man when he is getting 20 shots per game. Hes got zero defense whatsoever. He doesnt really run particularly well and isnt very athletic. I would stay away from Jefferson with everything I got. He is being outplayed in Utah by two under 22 year olds just waiting for their opportunity to start.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: nickagneta on November 12, 2012, 11:41:56 AM
I would rather have Favors or Kanter.


Though Milsap is a great improvement over Sully or Bass.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Chris on November 12, 2012, 11:47:30 AM
I would rather have Favors or Kanter.


Though Milsap is a great improvement over Sully or Bass.

So would I, but I don't think there is any chance they give up Favors or Kanter unless they are getting a real star in return.  They are their future.

I think Millsap is the realistic target.  First of all, he is a better fit, because he is a better defender than Al, and the last thing the C's need is another defensive challenged big man.  But also, his contract fits in with what the C's would be trying to match with. 

I just think to get Al, you would have to give up too many rotation quality players to even match his contract, and Utah might balk at taking on the longterm contracts as well, and require the C's to give up even more talent.

Millsap on the other hand, could possibly be had for a rotation player and a pick or young asset. 

And I do think Millsap would be a big upgrade on this team.  The problem is, with him hitting free agency this summer, would you want to pay him?  And if not, how much value are you going to give up for a rental?
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: mgent on November 12, 2012, 11:52:48 AM
Al Jefferson would be a terrible fit for the Celtics.  He's most effective when he is spoon fed the ball on the low block so he can go to work.  In my opinion, he's not the kind of big that we should pair with Rondo for the future.  We need a big who's more of an athlete, floor runner, and pick and roll player. 
Yeah, I think this pretty much goes without saying.  Offense aside, his defense would cripple us.  Milsap would be a much bigger addition, especially with his floor spacing. 

Although not even he would be what I'd call a "good" fit.  Able to help yes, but I'd kinda prefer us to stay out of Utah's sight than keep an eye on them.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Celtics18 on November 12, 2012, 12:01:24 PM
Al Jefferson would be a terrible fit for the Celtics.  He's most effective when he is spoon fed the ball on the low block so he can go to work.  In my opinion, he's not the kind of big that we should pair with Rondo for the future.  We need a big who's more of an athlete, floor runner, and pick and roll player. 
Yeah, I think this pretty much goes without saying.  Offense aside, his defense would cripple us.  Milsap would be a much bigger addition, especially with his floor spacing. 

Although not even he would be what I'd call a "good" fit.  Able to help yes, but I'd kinda prefer us to stay out of Utah's sight than keep an eye on them.

Apparently it doesn't go completely without saying.  There seem to be a number of fans who are very interested in trading for Big Al. 
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Kane3387 on November 12, 2012, 12:51:10 PM
Depending on how Paul George and Gerald Green look I could see Danny Granger being moved for one of those two bigs.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: perks-a-beast on November 12, 2012, 12:51:19 PM
Al Jefferson would be a terrible fit for the Celtics.  He's most effective when he is spoon fed the ball on the low block so he can go to work.  In my opinion, he's not the kind of big that we should pair with Rondo for the future.  We need a big who's more of an athlete, floor runner, and pick and roll player. 

Derrick Favors?  Yeah, absolutely.  I don't see Utah giving him up, though.

I agree with this even though i love Big Al. We have enough guys who need the ball in their hands to be effective. We need someone whose going to defend pick and rolls and play solid D.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 12, 2012, 02:00:05 PM
I would rather have Favors or Kanter.


Though Milsap is a great improvement over Sully or Bass.

So would I, but I don't think there is any chance they give up Favors or Kanter unless they are getting a real star in return.  They are their future.

I think Millsap is the realistic target.  First of all, he is a better fit, because he is a better defender than Al, and the last thing the C's need is another defensive challenged big man.  But also, his contract fits in with what the C's would be trying to match with. 

I just think to get Al, you would have to give up too many rotation quality players to even match his contract, and Utah might balk at taking on the longterm contracts as well, and require the C's to give up even more talent.

Millsap on the other hand, could possibly be had for a rotation player and a pick or young asset. 

And I do think Millsap would be a big upgrade on this team.  The problem is, with him hitting free agency this summer, would you want to pay him?  And if not, how much value are you going to give up for a rental?


I'm sure everyone would rather have favors or kanter. But that's the whole point. The jazz want these two guys starting making Milsap an Jefferson available to us for other pieces. Kanter and favors aren't going anywhere.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Chris on November 12, 2012, 02:11:53 PM
I would rather have Favors or Kanter.


Though Milsap is a great improvement over Sully or Bass.

So would I, but I don't think there is any chance they give up Favors or Kanter unless they are getting a real star in return.  They are their future.

I think Millsap is the realistic target.  First of all, he is a better fit, because he is a better defender than Al, and the last thing the C's need is another defensive challenged big man.  But also, his contract fits in with what the C's would be trying to match with. 

I just think to get Al, you would have to give up too many rotation quality players to even match his contract, and Utah might balk at taking on the longterm contracts as well, and require the C's to give up even more talent.

Millsap on the other hand, could possibly be had for a rotation player and a pick or young asset. 

And I do think Millsap would be a big upgrade on this team.  The problem is, with him hitting free agency this summer, would you want to pay him?  And if not, how much value are you going to give up for a rental?


I'm sure everyone would rather have favors or kanter. But that's the whole point. The jazz want these two guys starting making Milsap an Jefferson available to us for other pieces. Kanter and favors aren't going anywhere.

Well, yeah.  Millsap and Jefferson are both among the most available impact players in the league.  Its just a matter of making a match.  And I don't think there is a match for Jefferson.

Millsap may take a third team, but I think he is going to be a real target.  It just depends how much other teams are willing to pay, and what the C's can work out, since they can't really offer any expiring money.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Eddie20 on November 12, 2012, 03:25:45 PM
Al Jefferson would be a terrible fit for the Celtics.  He's most effective when he is spoon fed the ball on the low block so he can go to work.  In my opinion, he's not the kind of big that we should pair with Rondo for the future.  We need a big who's more of an athlete, floor runner, and pick and roll player. 
Yeah, I think this pretty much goes without saying.  Offense aside, his defense would cripple us.  Milsap would be a much bigger addition, especially with his floor spacing. 

Although not even he would be what I'd call a "good" fit.  Able to help yes, but I'd kinda prefer us to stay out of Utah's sight than keep an eye on them.


Really? I think people forget just how dominant we looked when we had Shaq operating in the low post.


Big Al would be a great piece in beating Miami, and Memphis showed a perfect blueprint in how to do so. Have good athletes on the wing that can defend Wade and James without needing help. And have bigs that can take advantage of the undersized fronting Miami does. Right now we have only one, KG, and he can't do it all game for an entire series. Simply not realistic. However, KG playing high post, and able to beat you with both his outside shooting or post entry passes, coupled with Big Al's work inside would be devastating.

Memphis did this and forced Spo to go big and bring in Haslem. This causes their offense to slow and limits their ability to spread the floor. So while Big Al might not be a great defender, his presence on the court could very well cause Miami to change their offensive approach simply to matchup.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Kane3387 on November 12, 2012, 03:31:33 PM
Al Jefferson would be a terrible fit for the Celtics.  He's most effective when he is spoon fed the ball on the low block so he can go to work.  In my opinion, he's not the kind of big that we should pair with Rondo for the future.  We need a big who's more of an athlete, floor runner, and pick and roll player. 
Yeah, I think this pretty much goes without saying.  Offense aside, his defense would cripple us.  Milsap would be a much bigger addition, especially with his floor spacing. 

Although not even he would be what I'd call a "good" fit.  Able to help yes, but I'd kinda prefer us to stay out of Utah's sight than keep an eye on them.


Really? I think people forget just how dominant we looked when we had Shaq operating in the low post.


Big Al would be a great piece in beating Miami, and Memphis showed a perfect blueprint in how to do so. Have good athletes on the wing that can defend Wade and James without needing help. And have bigs that can take advantage of the undersized fronting Miami does. Right now we have only one, KG, and he can't do it all game for an entire series. Simply not realistic. However, KG playing high post, and able to beat you with both his outside shooting or post entry passes, coupled with Big Al's work inside would be devastating.

Memphis did this and forced Spo to go big and bring in Haslem. This causes their offense to slow and limits their ability to spread the floor. So while Big Al might not be a great defender, his presence on the court could very well cause Miami to change their offensive approach simply to matchup.

Don't have the salary to acquire Big Al without moving Jeff Green.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Eddie20 on November 12, 2012, 03:57:41 PM
Al Jefferson would be a terrible fit for the Celtics.  He's most effective when he is spoon fed the ball on the low block so he can go to work.  In my opinion, he's not the kind of big that we should pair with Rondo for the future.  We need a big who's more of an athlete, floor runner, and pick and roll player. 
Yeah, I think this pretty much goes without saying.  Offense aside, his defense would cripple us.  Milsap would be a much bigger addition, especially with his floor spacing. 

Although not even he would be what I'd call a "good" fit.  Able to help yes, but I'd kinda prefer us to stay out of Utah's sight than keep an eye on them.


Really? I think people forget just how dominant we looked when we had Shaq operating in the low post.


Big Al would be a great piece in beating Miami, and Memphis showed a perfect blueprint in how to do so. Have good athletes on the wing that can defend Wade and James without needing help. And have bigs that can take advantage of the undersized fronting Miami does. Right now we have only one, KG, and he can't do it all game for an entire series. Simply not realistic. However, KG playing high post, and able to beat you with both his outside shooting or post entry passes, coupled with Big Al's work inside would be devastating.

Memphis did this and forced Spo to go big and bring in Haslem. This causes their offense to slow and limits their ability to spread the floor. So while Big Al might not be a great defender, his presence on the court could very well cause Miami to change their offensive approach simply to matchup.

Don't have the salary to acquire Big Al without moving Jeff Green.

I realize that it would be difficult. But I did want to make a point that just because he isn't the best athlete around doesn't necessarily make him a bad fit.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: nostar on November 14, 2012, 09:23:39 AM
I wouldn't trade Bradley for either Millsap or Jefferson. Any deal for me would have to be built around Bass/Lee and picks. Honestly I'd rather give up a pick than Sullinger. Bass/Lee + a first for Millsap would be ideal for us. Millsap loves the post and we need a guy like that.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: nickagneta on November 14, 2012, 10:29:07 AM
I wouldn't trade Bradley for either Millsap or Jefferson. Any deal for me would have to be built around Bass/Lee and picks. Honestly I'd rather give up a pick than Sullinger. Bass/Lee + a first for Millsap would be ideal for us. Millsap loves the post and we need a guy like that.
Yeah, that's not happening. Utah isn't taking back $11 million of salary for the next four years and a pick in the low to mid 20's for Millsap, especially since the players involved aren't even starter worthy NBA players. Rotational players sure, but not starter caliber.

When they move Kanter and Favors into the starting lineup, sooner or later they will have to pay them and Haywood. They will need money to attract a quality PG and and possibly superstar. The last thing they will want is to clog up the money under the salary cap with players like Lee and Bass.

Now if Green somehow starts acting like a real live SF sometime before Jan 15th when he can be dealt, they might take him and his contract because he would be a starting quality player and they would need a SF like that.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: wdleehi on November 14, 2012, 10:39:49 AM
I still think it would take multiple teams.



For example  (when all players are eligible to be traded)


Boston trades Green and Collins
  Receives Millsap and Hill

Utah trades Millsap
  Receives Bledsoe, Zaza and a 1st from LA

LA Clippers trades Butler, Hill, Bledsoe and 1st
  Receives Green and Collins

Atlanta trades ZaZa
   Receives Butler
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: kp4000 on November 14, 2012, 12:29:51 PM
Their two best bigs might be sitting on their bench

21 year old PF Derrick Favors (6-10, 250) ... 8 points, 8 rebounds, 2.2 blocks and a steal in only 22 minutes.

20 year old C Enes Kanter (6-11, 270)... 60% shooting, 5 points, 4 boards, 1 block in 15 minutes... was their best player in the preseason.

If they aren't their best right now... they are certainly that team's future.

...

Meanwhile both Millisap (8.6 mil) and Al Jefferson (15 mil) expire at the end of this year.  Either one of those guys would be a huge help for us.  That team is 2-4 right now. 

FWIW, I checked a Utah forum a couple weeks back and one of their own fans suggested trading Al Jefferson to Boston for Brandon Bass and Courtney Lee.  Keep an eye on Utah... I think it is very likely this could be a team we'll be trying to trade with once our players can be moved.

I think Utah is much deeper than the previous 2 seasons. The Celtics better not take them (Utah Jazz) lightly or else they're in trouble.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: chambers on November 16, 2012, 03:22:13 AM
I'd take Millsap because he can run with Rondo. I'd probably prefer Smith though to suit our new uptempo style to run with Rondo all game and rebound.

Smith and Millsap are both borderline All Stars who should have probably been picked in the past.
Millsap was a beast last year and he's going strong now.
Danny won't take Big Al but he'd go after Millsap. I reckon you could get Millsap cheap with his expiring deal. He's short but he's much better than Bass.

Smith or Millsap I'd be happy with because KG can stay at the 5. If we get Verajao then KG is technically going back to the PF.

At the end of the day Josh Smith is probably a better fit because he puts up similar offensive numbers but has a much stronger presence on the defensive end. He can defend multiple positions and guard the pick and roll very well.
KG+Smith on defense would just be a fortress.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 16, 2012, 07:33:08 AM
I really think , I'm seeing a mid year trade happening.  No complaints about Bass and his attitude are great for his salary.

With Ray gone, Its obvious with Paul slowing down,  we need a Alstar or near alstar to beef up the team on a nightly basis.

Celtics have a nice bench and alot of "GOOD" players , but to really match up even or better , we are now an Alstar player short on the roster.  A tall quality 'BIG" to help KG.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: peachbucket on November 16, 2012, 09:44:40 AM
Al Jefferson would be a terrible fit for the Celtics.  He's most effective when he is spoon fed the ball on the low block so he can go to work.  In my opinion, he's not the kind of big that we should pair with Rondo for the future.  We need a big who's more of an athlete, floor runner, and pick and roll player. 

Derrick Favors?  Yeah, absolutely.  I don't see Utah giving him up, though.

I agree with this even though i love Big Al. We have enough guys who need the ball in their hands to be effective. We need someone whose going to defend pick and rolls and play solid D.

Are you guys kidding me?  Jefferson is one of the best rebounders in the NBA which is by far this teams biggest weakness.  Also, last I checked, blocked shots were a part of defense and Al would instantly be the best shot blocker on the team by far.  He is also one of the games few bigs that operates from the post position providing much needed floor spacing and an efficient offensive interior presence...this would take offensive pressure off of KG who can then focus more on offensive rebounding and the defensive side of the ball which is his specialty.  Jefferson, more than any other big I can think off, is exactly what this team needs.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: Kane3387 on November 16, 2012, 10:15:43 AM
I still think it would take multiple teams.



For example  (when all players are eligible to be traded)


Boston trades Green and Collins
  Receives Millsap and Hill

Utah trades Millsap
  Receives Bledsoe, Zaza and a 1st from LA

LA Clippers trades Butler, Hill, Bledsoe and 1st
  Receives Green and Collins

Atlanta trades ZaZa
   Receives Butler

I like the premise. Don't see the Clippers getting enough in return to make this deal.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on Utah
Post by: wdleehi on November 16, 2012, 10:20:57 AM
I still think it would take multiple teams.



For example  (when all players are eligible to be traded)


Boston trades Green and Collins
  Receives Millsap and Hill

Utah trades Millsap
  Receives Bledsoe, Zaza and a 1st from LA

LA Clippers trades Butler, Hill, Bledsoe and 1st
  Receives Green and Collins

Atlanta trades ZaZa
   Receives Butler

I like the premise. Don't see the Clippers getting enough in return to make this deal.


Not the way Green is playing at the moment.