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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: OhioGreen on November 10, 2012, 08:06:35 AM

Title: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: OhioGreen on November 10, 2012, 08:06:35 AM
We picked up a guy who has been labeled a bust because he never lived up to expected potential. When he got here, though, becoming a C, playing with KG, coached by Doc, he seemingly started to transform to a player who put his past behind him and really started to "buy in" to our system and just try to be the best player he could be.  And it was working! He, arguably was one of our best performers in preseason.  You could just see the competitor coming back out in him.
Fast forward to the regular season. Buried on the bench. Four minutes in one game. His wrist is bothering him, but he said it wasn't serious and just something he'd be playing through all season, and that it wouldn't affect him that much.
Attitudes have a way of souring quickly though when you kindle a lost fire in someone, and then just as quickly douse it.  He just showed so much potential, in areas that we desperately need, that it's really ticking me off that Doc has just turned his back on him!
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: dark_lord on November 10, 2012, 08:19:41 AM
id love to lose him.  addition by subtraction
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: BMark3 on November 10, 2012, 08:29:58 AM
We should be using Darko and Jason Collins when KG is not in the game.  Teams are utterly unafraid of driving to the basket when KG is on the bench.  Collins, although not a shot blocker, knows how to play interior defense.  Darko can block shots and generally gives us six hard fouls.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: chenaren on November 10, 2012, 08:38:30 AM
Is Darko able to play now? He is definitely a serviceable backup center. Let's hope Doc is not obsessed with the small linups.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Junkyard Dawg on November 10, 2012, 08:58:26 AM
Quote
Attitudes have a way of souring quickly though when you kindle a lost fire in someone, and then just as quickly douse it.

Do you have a link for this?

My guess is Doc is trying to get some continuity in his rotations, and right now he wants to play small-ish.  Wilcox, Sullinger, he wants guys who can run the floor.  He's said publicly that the goal for the season is beating Miami.  Personally, I still think the championship "formula" involves quality defensive-minded bigs, and I would like to see what Darko can bring to the table, but I also think Wilcox is a better player, plays better with Rondo especially, and is most likely a better match against Miami.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: mgent on November 10, 2012, 09:00:53 AM
We don't need to play Darko hurt.  It doesn't make any sense, especially when none of our 4 bigs have done anything to make Doc question their minutes.

Let him keep resting it and continue to play him situationaly.

I think Darko's skillset puts him at an immediate disadvantage for minutes anyway.  He has two things working against him.  He doesn't space the floor the way Bass and Sully do, and he can't rebound the way Wilcox and Sully can.  That means he's going to have to be a game-changer defensively if he wants to contribute anything.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: greg_kite on November 10, 2012, 09:16:08 AM
Not playing him hasn't been so successful so why not give him a shot.  He could provide what this team needs, an interior presence.  If he's ineffective you sit him again and play Bass or Wilcox.  I'm all set with seeing Green at the 4 though.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Who on November 10, 2012, 09:40:09 AM
I wish Danny had signed Chris Andersen instead of Darko.

Andersen, with his superior quickness / mobility, would have been a such a good fit.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: billysan on November 10, 2012, 10:33:16 AM
We dont really know what Darko has to offer yet. We havent seen him in enough regular season game minutes. We are stuck with Doc's obsession with his current rotation behind KG.

There have certainly been enough instances where we are getting pushed around (bullied) in the paint by Seraphin and Lavoy Allen in the past two games to warrant a question as to why Darko isnt playing when this happens.

Also it seems to me that the guys who should be setting picks and rebounding are being used as scorers. Who is doing the dirty work out there?

Will our sports media people even ask? What does Tommy think?  ???
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 10, 2012, 10:41:46 AM
I wish Danny had signed Chris Andersen instead of Darko.

Andersen, with his superior quickness / mobility, would have been a such a good fit.

I wish doc would freakin' play him! Every time we have put a 7 footer on the floor god things have happened in the past few years. Using sully and bass at the big slots isn't going to work, we are going to keep getting pummeled inside... Freeeeee darko!
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Celtics18 on November 10, 2012, 10:53:18 AM
Like everybody else, I don't like the Sully/Bass lineups.  That's why Doc's been working Wilcox into the rotation.  Chris hasn't disappointed, and I'm sure we'll keep seeing him get more minutes as he rounds into shape.  In that case, I don't see a pressing need to get Darko in games. 

If Darko's feelings are hurt, then that's on him.  He was never guaranteed minutes as far as I was concerned, to begin with. 

We'll probably need him at some point.  If he can't stay engaged while riding the pine for awhile, then all the negative stuff they've been saying about him all along is true. 

I'm hoping that he'll conduct himself as a professional.  At least, we know Collins isn't likely to get mopey over playing time.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: StartOrien on November 10, 2012, 10:56:23 AM
I wish Danny had signed Chris Andersen instead of Darko.

Andersen, with his superior quickness / mobility, would have been a such a good fit.

I wish doc would freakin' play him! Every time we have put a 7 footer on the floor god things have happened in the past few years. Using sully and bass at the big slots isn't going to work, we are going to keep getting pummeled inside... Freeeeee darko!

We need a big out there for sure, but I don't know if it has to be Darko. He looked alarmingly bad in the few minutes he got against Milwaukee
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: mr. dee on November 10, 2012, 11:00:53 AM
It's a small sample. We also saw how good he was during the pre-season. That's why whether he will be good or bad, Doc needs to give him minutes for assessment. Give him a few minutes in few games and if he's not effective then replace him with another big until Doc figures the best lineup.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: StartOrien on November 10, 2012, 11:04:07 AM
It's a small sample. We also saw how good he was during the pre-season. That's why whether he will be good or bad, Doc needs to give him minutes for assessment. Give him a few minutes in few games and if he's not effective then replace him with another big until Doc figures the best lineup.

Can't really argue w/ that.

Especially w/ Andersen still available. Might be best to give him some early minutes to see if there's a use for him, and if not - it's time for the birdman to fly
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on November 10, 2012, 12:32:38 PM
I wish we play him, because we could, confidence wise.

Not that he's a superstar, but he has a lot to offer for us, mainly his shot blocking. And lets not forget he can hit midrange and a very underrated passer.

We need to play big, KG is not intimidating anymore. Bass and Sully is not intimidating no one. Darko atleast will give us a shot blocking presence, and we might kill his confidence and when we need him, it'll be too late.

Let's remember, this guy reportedly was offered a lot of money to play in Europe, stayed and chose to play for us for less because he saw something to this team. I just don't want him losing all confidence because he's not getting a role. 

Pearljammer is right.

#FreeDarko
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: OhioGreen on November 10, 2012, 12:41:41 PM
Just a couple of points.

If I was a player, I sure wouldn't want my possible contributions to the team based on 4 minutes in 5 games!
The combo of Darko, Sully, JGreen, and JT really worked most exellently in preseason. Leave BB in the starting lineup and then bring this unit in when KG checks out!?? Leaves dirty work to Darko and Sully, and lets JT and JG do their thing without worrying about involving everyone else in the offense.
If C's were 4-1 or 5-0 and running like a finely tuned machine, I would imagine Darko would be enjoying it as much as we would. But when you're only wins are 1 pt. and OT against one of the lousier teams in the league, playing shorthanded on top of it, you gotta understand if that isn't going over to well!
Small ball stinks, and even CW is only 6'10", and really a PF, not a center! So Doc playing him is not REALLY getting away from playing small ball. We've got 3 7's on the bench--two of which have a rep for shot blocking, and the other a solid defender.  I have no prob with Doc's experimenting with different rotations, but only experimenting with "small ball" rotations is the problem.
Really tired of other teams doing basically layup drills against us when KG goes out! Last year we had Steimer. No easy shots at the rim, especially when he AND KG were in together. I think thats this years teams biggest problem--NO INTIMIDATION in the middle!
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: OhioGreen on November 10, 2012, 12:43:07 PM
I wish we play him, because we could, confidence wise.

Not that he's a superstar, but he has a lot to offer for us, mainly his shot blocking. And lets not forget he can hit midrange and a very underrated passer.

We need to play big, KG is not intimidating anymore. Bass and Sully is not intimidating no one. Darko atleast will give us a shot blocking presence, and we might kill his confidence and when we need him, it'll be too late.

Let's remember, this guy reportedly was offered a lot of money to play in Europe, stayed and chose to play for us for less because he saw something to this team. I just don't want him losing all confidence because he's not getting a role. 

Pearljammer is right.

#FreeDarko
THIS!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Celtics18 on November 10, 2012, 03:27:45 PM
So, you guys want to go with an eleven man rotation?  Or, do you want him to replace either Wilcox or Sully in the rotation?  Which one?
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 10, 2012, 03:31:21 PM
Hope not.

I was estatic when BOS got him, and I'm still excited about him being in Green.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on November 10, 2012, 03:40:48 PM
We picked up a guy who has been labeled a bust because he never lived up to expected potential. When he got here, though, becoming a C, playing with KG, coached by Doc, he seemingly started to transform to a player who put his past behind him and really started to "buy in" to our system and just try to be the best player he could be.  And it was working! He, arguably was one of our best performers in preseason.  You could just see the competitor coming back out in him.
Fast forward to the regular season. Buried on the bench. Four minutes in one game. His wrist is bothering him, but he said it wasn't serious and just something he'd be playing through all season, and that it wouldn't affect him that much.
Attitudes have a way of souring quickly though when you kindle a lost fire in someone, and then just as quickly douse it.  He just showed so much potential, in areas that we desperately need, that it's really ticking me off that Doc has just turned his back on him!

I feel the same way. Unfortunately, Doc seems obsessed with smallball, which doesn't work for us, because we don't have two of the top five players in the league.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Chief on November 10, 2012, 03:52:19 PM
Is Darko able to play now? He is definitely a serviceable backup center. Let's hope Doc is not obsessed with the small linups.

He is!!! I have been saying it for years.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Kane3387 on November 10, 2012, 05:20:06 PM
He deserves a chance for the simple sake that we are horrible at defending the rim right now. He is supposedly a good high post facilitator according to Pierce, so maybe he can help the offense a little bit too.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Reyquila on November 10, 2012, 05:59:22 PM
Why are we always telling Doic how he should coach the team? Use this player; use that player; etc etc. It seems we dont think he is capable of making the right decisions. We dont tell Mr. Spielberg how he should do his business, Right? Why do we have to tell Doc? Could it be that we find him incapable of running this ship the right way? I honestlyt believe we won in 2008 in spite of him. We were the best; we caught the league by surprise and we won it all cause we had intelligent players. Now that we are not so good, we cannot do it by ourselves and we have to tell him how to do it?. I think we do.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 10, 2012, 06:09:01 PM
So, you guys want to go with an eleven man rotation?  Or, do you want him to replace either Wilcox or Sully in the rotation?  Which one?

Do what Pop does.

Blair logs a DNP some games because he can't deal with the length of some teams. Splitter could play 30 one game and 20 the next.

Against the Heat I'd guess we need quickness and athleticism. Sully at center was just a liability, play Wilcox.

When playing the 6ers or the Bucks a legit front court would help. Sully/Bass + Wilcox/Darko/Garnett would be nice.



But what do I know. I'm not paid millions a year to coach basketball. Maybe letting opposing bigs having their way with us and having our opponents getting into our paint is really a good thing.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Boris Badenov on November 10, 2012, 06:13:21 PM
KG will get hurt and/or need to sit for a few games. We will start Darko then.

I think Doc knows this and is experimenting with the small lineups while KG is healthy.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Celtics18 on November 10, 2012, 06:15:44 PM
So, you guys want to go with an eleven man rotation?  Or, do you want him to replace either Wilcox or Sully in the rotation?  Which one?

Do what Pop does.

Blair logs a DNP some games because he can't deal with the length of some teams. Splitter could play 30 one game and 20 the next.

Against the Heat I'd guess we need quickness and athleticism. Sully at center was just a liability, play Wilcox.

When playing the 6ers or the Bucks a legit front court would help. Sully/Bass + Wilcox/Darko/Garnett would be nice.



But what do I know. I'm not paid millions a year to coach basketball. Maybe letting opposing bigs having their way with us and having our opponents getting into our paint is really a good thing.

The Sixers without Bunym aren't a particularly imposing front court.  I'm trying to remember which terrifying low post presence plays for the Bucks.   
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Edgar on November 10, 2012, 06:27:24 PM
Why are we always telling Doic how he should coach the team? Use this player; use that player; etc etc. It seems we dont think he is capable of making the right decisions. We dont tell Mr. Spielberg how he should do his business, Right? Why do we have to tell Doc? Could it be that we find him incapable of running this ship the right way? I honestlyt believe we won in 2008 in spite of him. We were the best; we caught the league by surprise and we won it all cause we had intelligent players. Now that we are not so good, we cannot do it by ourselves and we have to tell him how to do it?. I think we do.

Exactamundo
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 10, 2012, 06:41:00 PM
So, you guys want to go with an eleven man rotation?  Or, do you want him to replace either Wilcox or Sully in the rotation?  Which one?

Do what Pop does.

Blair logs a DNP some games because he can't deal with the length of some teams. Splitter could play 30 one game and 20 the next.

Against the Heat I'd guess we need quickness and athleticism. Sully at center was just a liability, play Wilcox.

When playing the 6ers or the Bucks a legit front court would help. Sully/Bass + Wilcox/Darko/Garnett would be nice.



But what do I know. I'm not paid millions a year to coach basketball. Maybe letting opposing bigs having their way with us and having our opponents getting into our paint is really a good thing.

The Sixers without Bunym aren't a particularly imposing front court.  I'm trying to remember which terrifying low post presence plays for the Bucks.

Hawes had his way with us both meetings.

As for the Bucks...well, I just don't like Sully at center right now.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Celtics18 on November 10, 2012, 06:53:00 PM
So, you guys want to go with an eleven man rotation?  Or, do you want him to replace either Wilcox or Sully in the rotation?  Which one?

Do what Pop does.

Blair logs a DNP some games because he can't deal with the length of some teams. Splitter could play 30 one game and 20 the next.

Against the Heat I'd guess we need quickness and athleticism. Sully at center was just a liability, play Wilcox.

When playing the 6ers or the Bucks a legit front court would help. Sully/Bass + Wilcox/Darko/Garnett would be nice.



But what do I know. I'm not paid millions a year to coach basketball. Maybe letting opposing bigs having their way with us and having our opponents getting into our paint is really a good thing.

The Sixers without Bunym aren't a particularly imposing front court.  I'm trying to remember which terrifying low post presence plays for the Bucks.

Hawes had his way with us both meetings.

As for the Bucks...well, I just don't like Sully at center right now.

I don't like Sully at center, either.  That's why I'm a big proponent of more minutes for Chris Wilcox.

Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 10, 2012, 07:06:00 PM
So, you guys want to go with an eleven man rotation?  Or, do you want him to replace either Wilcox or Sully in the rotation?  Which one?

Do what Pop does.

Blair logs a DNP some games because he can't deal with the length of some teams. Splitter could play 30 one game and 20 the next.

Against the Heat I'd guess we need quickness and athleticism. Sully at center was just a liability, play Wilcox.

When playing the 6ers or the Bucks a legit front court would help. Sully/Bass + Wilcox/Darko/Garnett would be nice.



But what do I know. I'm not paid millions a year to coach basketball. Maybe letting opposing bigs having their way with us and having our opponents getting into our paint is really a good thing.

The Sixers without Bunym aren't a particularly imposing front court.  I'm trying to remember which terrifying low post presence plays for the Bucks.

Hawes had his way with us both meetings.

As for the Bucks...well, I just don't like Sully at center right now.

I don't like Sully at center, either.  That's why I'm a big proponent of more minutes for Chris Wilcox.

I was thinking maybe Wilcox and Darko were injured at the beginning of the season.

But after seeing Wilcox play I'm starting to think it's just Doc not wanting to play them and insisting on small ball as others have suggested. Very frustrating.
Title: Re: Are we going to lose Darko?
Post by: Celtics18 on November 10, 2012, 07:13:50 PM
So, you guys want to go with an eleven man rotation?  Or, do you want him to replace either Wilcox or Sully in the rotation?  Which one?

Do what Pop does.

Blair logs a DNP some games because he can't deal with the length of some teams. Splitter could play 30 one game and 20 the next.

Against the Heat I'd guess we need quickness and athleticism. Sully at center was just a liability, play Wilcox.

When playing the 6ers or the Bucks a legit front court would help. Sully/Bass + Wilcox/Darko/Garnett would be nice.



But what do I know. I'm not paid millions a year to coach basketball. Maybe letting opposing bigs having their way with us and having our opponents getting into our paint is really a good thing.

The Sixers without Bunym aren't a particularly imposing front court.  I'm trying to remember which terrifying low post presence plays for the Bucks.

Hawes had his way with us both meetings.

As for the Bucks...well, I just don't like Sully at center right now.

I don't like Sully at center, either.  That's why I'm a big proponent of more minutes for Chris Wilcox.

I was thinking maybe Wilcox and Darko were injured at the beginning of the season.

But after seeing Wilcox play I'm starting to think it's just Doc not wanting to play them and insisting on small ball as others have suggested. Very frustrating.

I think Wilcox was injured (or at least not in good game shape) to start the season.  I think we'll continue to see him have a larger role with this team as he keeps rounding into shape. 

If he gets a DNP tonight, then you might have a legitimate beef.