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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Hardcore Fan on November 10, 2012, 02:08:06 AM

Title: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: Hardcore Fan on November 10, 2012, 02:08:06 AM
Got a txt tonight from a buddy.  "I'm becoming a Clippers fan". I replied, "I'm reserving judgement till AB comes back". I seem to remember things really clicking when AB got involved last year. Can he do it again ?  Cuz, while I kow it's "early", it is ugly at the moment.
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: j804 on November 10, 2012, 02:11:46 AM
He can help us a ton defensively, that's for sure. He can stop guys like Jrue Holiday from getting constant dribble penetration where it forces KG to help leaving their man open for putbacks or to eat up the glass. His defense is also contagious.
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: crimson_stallion on November 10, 2012, 02:38:42 AM
I think he will certainly help in a massive way. Avery Bradley will pretty much help us two major areas:

1. Chemisty
2. Defense

First of all Bradley has been with this team for two years - he knows the other starter's tendancies/strengths/weaknesses and they know his.

Secondly his aggressive defense on the perimeter will limit the number of opportunities opposing teams have to get into the paint on dribble penetration.  This is a very big factor because out bigs (outside of KG) are clearly struggling to defend the paint once opposing teams do get inside.

To be honest even on offense he will help.  Rondo and Bradley had amazing chemstry last year, and when Bradley looked to cut Rondo always knew where to find him.

Another plus is it moves Lee to the bench, and I think Lee is going to be much better with the second unit than he is with the starters. He's definately got an advantage over most teams' second tier SG, but he's at a disadvantage against most teams' starters. 
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: chambers on November 10, 2012, 03:37:42 AM
yawn...i remember what people were saying last year at the start of the season.
It's hardly a debacle being 2-3 with this many new players.
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: celtics2 on November 10, 2012, 03:41:24 AM
I think he will certainly help in a massive way. Avery Bradley will pretty much help us two major areas:

1. Chemisty
2. Defense

First of all Bradley has been with this team for two years - he knows the other starter's tendancies/strengths/weaknesses and they know his.

Secondly his aggressive defense on the perimeter will limit the number of opportunities opposing teams have to get into the paint on dribble penetration.  This is a very big factor because out bigs (outside of KG) are clearly struggling to defend the paint once opposing teams do get inside.

To be honest even on offense he will help.  Rondo and Bradley had amazing chemstry last year, and when Bradley looked to cut Rondo always knew where to find him.

Another plus is it moves Lee to the bench, and I think Lee is going to be much better with the second unit than he is with the starters. He's definately got an advantage over most teams' second tier SG, but he's at a disadvantage against most teams' starters.

Tommy Point. Brilliant, if he's sound he can do it again like when Allen went down we went up up and away.
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: Edgar on November 10, 2012, 03:48:01 AM
I will reserve my comments till next game..
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 10, 2012, 04:01:07 AM
What debacle?

I dislike losing, too - but give this thing some time.
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: crownsy on November 10, 2012, 09:46:16 AM
2-3 5 games in is a debacle now days eh?

I mean, we should be 3-2 no doubt, that loss to the bucks was atrocious, but I'm going to wait till 10 games at least to start panicking.

One thing i would like to see is more chirs wilcox
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: vinnie on November 10, 2012, 09:50:25 AM
yawn...i remember what people were saying last year at the start of the season.
It's hardly a debacle being 2-3 with this many new players.

Why does it seem that other teams with lots of new players and missing some of their stars -- Knicks, Mavericks for two -- seem to be able to come together and win games early?
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: crownsy on November 10, 2012, 10:00:41 AM
yawn...i remember what people were saying last year at the start of the season.
It's hardly a debacle being 2-3 with this many new players.

Why does it seem that other teams with lots of new players and missing some of their stars -- Knicks, Mavericks for two -- seem to be able to come together and win games early?

I dunno, why is Indiana 2-4? That team is good and is returning alot of the same core.

You think the Bucks or Knicks are as good as their record says they are?

Are the Lakers a Last Place team?

Think the Timberwolves are really as good as their 4-1 record says?

It's 5 games in. I know people want to make snap, in the moment judgements now, but the NBA season is closer to Baseball than it is to football. If we're 4-6 when 10 games are gone, or worse, then I think we need to take a hard look in the mirror. 2-3 I'm not overly concerned.

Would I like them to play better? Yes, obviously. I'm just not in panic mode yet.

Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: slamtheking on November 10, 2012, 10:06:57 AM
Bradley will help but he can't turn this mess around single handedly
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: crownsy on November 10, 2012, 10:08:50 AM
Bradley will help but he can't turn this mess around single handedly

All that's needed to turn this mess around is a few weeks of playing together and Doc getting rotations down.

As has been mentioned, I'd like to see less sully and bass at the same time, thats an awful defensive lineup.

Either guy is fine with me, but it should be alongisde KG, Wilcox or even darko.

Play Jeff Green at the 3, please. He gets so much more aggressive when they do this, both offensively and defensively. I know they think he can out quick 4's, but so far that isn't the case.

Rather have him overpowering 3's, which he seems more comfortable doing.
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: wahz on November 10, 2012, 10:34:01 AM
He can make us a lot better, yes. But it's also true that this group needs time. The championship team didn't need a ton of time but those additions were KG, Ray, Posey and House. VERY specific roles they all had. Adding Lee, Terry, Green, Sully, and so on is a whole different thing.

As others are saying Doc needs to figure out his rotations too. When Avery comes back he knows he can trust him. If you throw out KG(28), Bass(28), PP(30), Avery(28), and Rajon(38), well, we have had those starters together before. And they were a very solid group. We know that works. I have left 88 minutes for the bench and between Lee, Sully, Green, Terry and Barbosa, 3 or 4 of them have to take turns coming through. But as bench guys coming in for my starting group their rolls seem clearer to me: Leandro and Terry need to add scoring; Sully needs to board and do the little things; Lee has to add big d, run and hit some corner threes. Green needs to run AND PLAY HARD D ON WINGS and get PP rest. Whether they can do their rolls I dunno but those are their rolls
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: mr. dee on November 10, 2012, 10:37:03 AM
Bradley will help but he can't turn this mess around single handedly

All that's needed to turn this mess around is a few weeks of playing together and Doc getting rotations down.

As has been mentioned, I'd like to see less sully and bass at the same time, thats an awful defensive lineup.

Either guy is fine with me, but it should be alongisde KG, Wilcox or even darko.

Play Jeff Green at the 3, please. He gets so much more aggressive when they do this, both offensively and defensively. I know they think he can out quick 4's, but so far that isn't the case.

Rather have him overpowering 3's, which he seems more comfortable doing.
I concur this. The reason Green is ineffective so far is because they are not playing to his strength and he is not getting involve in plays.
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 10, 2012, 10:39:58 AM
I think he can add something but at the same time we might take a step back chemistry wise when he returns. At that point hopefully doc will know kind of his rotation and player will be falling into decent roles. Trying to add another player who needs good minutes might again cause a chemistry/rotation problem for a short period of time.


And I'm also in the Bradley is overrated/being relied on waaaaay to heavily as being a savior. So I don't think he will be able to turn anything around but the team as a whole will. I mean it's five games. We are nowhere near a debacle yet.
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: Jon on November 10, 2012, 10:40:59 AM
I think Avery can help. 

The defense has been terrible.  But why? 

KG, Pierce, and Rondo are all back.  As is Bass.  Courtney Lee should actually be an upgrade over Ray at the 2.  The starting lineup shouldn't be any worse defensively than it was last year at this time.

I think there are a few answers.

1) The team hasn't learned to play defense together, particularly the new players.  This should get better over time.

2) The Sully/Bass 4/5 lineups offer no shotblocking.  I'm all for playing one undersized PF (including Green), but playing 2 at a time at the 4/5 isn't helping. 

3) Avery Bradley.  While he may not solve all problem, he'll certainly help.  For instance, he could've covered Holliday last night, who would've had a much more difficult night.  And that could've been enough to eke out a win. 

Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 10, 2012, 10:59:23 AM
AB and Wilcox and Jet will go a long way in helping things .Yes , with AB on Holiday last night , the game would have been "MUCH" different. In other words ROndo and KG would have some defensive help.  We might have won that game, but DOc insists on letting Sully and Bass be the "BIG"s , then we are doomed.  DArko /Wilcox need to enter the game when KG sits.

I think we are going to have to have Josh Smith or another TOP Notch BIG that can help KG .  Like Pau with Howard .

Celtics do not have an man of LBJ size and caliber.  Doc is wasting his time trying to be "LIKE Miami"  thats a joke., or young like OKC or Philly.

WIth KG and PP still the MAIN go to guys,...Celtics need to play  "LARGE BALL"  to crush there opponents.

I think m, big intimidation presence inside is the only choice at the monent.  Make all the teams beat us shooting long two and threes.
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: cman88 on November 10, 2012, 12:02:52 PM
Yes he can definitely help....look, rondo can be a good defender but he gambles way too much. and when you dont have someone who can lock down his man like bradley can, that gambling allows penetration into the paint.

Bradley's defense was a large reason our season turned around last year, heck, KG was calling him their defensive captain

Im not worried right now though. last year we looked like a Mess before the all-star break, and most people on this board were saying we wouldnt even make the playoffs

after that, we became the best defensive team in the league and made it to game 7 of the Eastern conference finals

theres alot of new pieces who arent comfortable in their roles/defensive sets yet. and once they get more comfortable this team will start playing much better
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: OmarSekou on November 10, 2012, 12:43:41 PM
Debacle? We're fine. People need to calm down. We have poor defensive rotations, which should improve as the season progresses. Let's give it a little bit before going into panic mode.
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: Edgar on November 10, 2012, 02:31:47 PM
And I'm also in the Bradley is overrated/being relied on waaaaay to heavily as being a savior. So I don't think he will be able to turn anything around but the team as a whole will. I mean it's five games. We are nowhere near a debacle yet.

this
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: blastoidesroidsnoids on November 10, 2012, 03:05:44 PM
yawn...i remember what people were saying last year at the start of the season.
It's hardly a debacle being 2-3 with this many new players.

Why does it seem that other teams with lots of new players and missing some of their stars -- Knicks, Mavericks for two -- seem to be able to come together and win games early?

I dunno, why is Indiana 2-4? That team is good and is returning alot of the same core.

You think the Bucks or Knicks are as good as their record says they are?

Are the Lakers a Last Place team?

Think the Timberwolves are really as good as their 4-1 record says?

It's 5 games in. I know people want to make snap, in the moment judgements now, but the NBA season is closer to Baseball than it is to football. If we're 4-6 when 10 games are gone, or worse, then I think we need to take a hard look in the mirror. 2-3 I'm not overly concerned.

Would I like them to play better? Yes, obviously. I'm just not in panic mode yet.
Exactly... its like you people have never watched basketball in november before
Title: Re: Can Avery Bradley turn this debacle around?
Post by: cman88 on November 10, 2012, 03:17:49 PM
And I'm also in the Bradley is overrated/being relied on waaaaay to heavily as being a savior. So I don't think he will be able to turn anything around but the team as a whole will. I mean it's five games. We are nowhere near a debacle yet.

this

well, i think if you had bradley playing now, the defense for the starting unit would be better because he already knows the rotations..

right now, guys like Lee, Green, sullinger are missing rotations.

BUT, theres no reason to think that they wont improve  over time as they get more comfortable with the defensive rotations