CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: BleedGreen1989 on November 08, 2012, 12:09:42 PM
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I'm in favor of starting bass. I think he fits better with the starting unit and I can see sully getting overwhelmed by big games and his defense is a little scary.
Who do you think and why?
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Don't care - Doc's problems is not starters.
It's over reliance on player 9-11 in rotation and too many minutes for RR, KG, PP.
He's got to pick a plan and go with it for a few games, let team get chemistry.
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Why not start Wilcox?
He should be in the conversation too.
And i think he and KG complement each other.
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Why not start Wilcox?
He should be in the conversation too.
And i think he and KG complement each other.
Ya whether or not he starts I don't see a reason why Wilcox shouldn't get a nice increase in minutes as he starts to feel more comfortable..the guy played very well with consistent minutes last season
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Start Bass for now.
Stay away from the Bass/Sullinger combo. (or Green with one of them) Use Wilcox when KG is out.
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I'm fine with the current lineup. I like Bass to finish games. Also, i think our problem is just chemistry...it'll come
there still work to do, but we're still in better shape than the Lakers :-p
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It all depends on the lineup we are facing each night. Doc has said as much, that there will probably be 3-4 different starting lineups depending on matchup.
Sully develops faster the more playing time he gets. The more minutes and key minutes Sully gets before the playoffs, the better off we'll be.
Wilcox looks primed to cut into Sully's minutes, so Sully will have to develop fast to hold him off.
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I'm in favor of starting bass. I think he fits better with the starting unit and I can see sully getting overwhelmed by big games and his defense is a little scary.
Who do you think and why?
Bass gives the second unit offense. We don't need that with the first unit. Our problems on offense last year came from the fact that our bench was horrible. Bass has many attributes, but he is arguably the best spot-up shooter on the team. That is automatic O.
Further, since KG likes to play on the perimeter, Bass is redundant with that group. Sully gives us an interior player that contrasts nicely with KG.
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Stay away from the Bass/Sullinger combo. (or Green with one of them) Use Wilcox when KG is out.
To me this is the key. I would start Sullinger, but ultimately I don't think it makes a huge difference whether Bass or Sullinger starts. But it is a big problem when the combination of them are playing 2/3 of the minutes up front and playing big minutes together. I think they are a very good combination to share the PF minutes between them, but both of them really need to play with a longer player to protect the basket a little better.
So, whether its Wilcox or Darko, someone is going to have to step up for the minutes when KG is on the bench. I tend to think that is still the plan though, and the reason they aren't playing is because of injuries and learning the system...but hopefully sooner rather than later, one of them can fill that role.
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Stay away from the Bass/Sullinger combo. (or Green with one of them) Use Wilcox when KG is out.
To me this is the key. I would start Sullinger, but ultimately I don't think it makes a huge difference whether Bass or Sullinger starts. But it is a big problem when the combination of them are playing 2/3 of the minutes up front and playing big minutes together. I think they are a very good combination to share the PF minutes between them, but both of them really need to play with a longer player to protect the basket a little better.
So, whether its Wilcox or Darko, someone is going to have to step up for the minutes when KG is on the bench. I tend to think that is still the plan though, and the reason they aren't playing is because of injuries and learning the system...but hopefully sooner rather than later, one of them can fill that role.
I want to believe that, but how long did we watch Powe and Davis play together?
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Stay away from the Bass/Sullinger combo. (or Green with one of them) Use Wilcox when KG is out.
To me this is the key. I would start Sullinger, but ultimately I don't think it makes a huge difference whether Bass or Sullinger starts. But it is a big problem when the combination of them are playing 2/3 of the minutes up front and playing big minutes together. I think they are a very good combination to share the PF minutes between them, but both of them really need to play with a longer player to protect the basket a little better.
So, whether its Wilcox or Darko, someone is going to have to step up for the minutes when KG is on the bench. I tend to think that is still the plan though, and the reason they aren't playing is because of injuries and learning the system...but hopefully sooner rather than later, one of them can fill that role.
I want to believe that, but how long did we watch Powe and Davis play together?
They played together? I seriously don't remember that. I remember them basically being platooned, at least in their first year together.
I guess in the second year it happened a bit more, but I think that was really only when there were injuries, otherwise KG or Perk were almost always on the court.
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Wilcox has always been my choice for starting, and seeing his few minutes played so far, tells me he's ready for that role.
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Wilcox has always been my choice for starting, and seeing his few minutes played so far, tells me he's ready for that role.
I think he makes for a better backup/replacement for KG. Otherwise it will be two shorter, not good at defending the rim players off the bench.
That role will help the team more.
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Wilcox has always been my choice for starting, and seeing his few minutes played so far, tells me he's ready for that role.
I think he makes for a better backup/replacement for KG. Otherwise it will be two shorter, not good at defending the rim players off the bench.
That role will help the team more.
I just like Bass' offensive punch off the bench, and think Wilcox is a better fist for our starters. But Wilcox as first replacement for KG works as well.
Point is, Bass and Sullinger together is a mistake, and will keep being a mistake.
In all, I think Wilcox compliments our starters very well, and in the 2nd half of last season he was rotating very well in our defense, etc.
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Wilcox has always been my choice for starting, and seeing his few minutes played so far, tells me he's ready for that role.
I think he makes for a better backup/replacement for KG. Otherwise it will be two shorter, not good at defending the rim players off the bench.
That role will help the team more.
I just like Bass' offensive punch off the bench, and think Wilcox is a better fist for our starters. But Wilcox as first replacement for KG works as well.
Point is, Bass and Sullinger together is a mistake, and will keep being a mistake.
In all, I think Wilcox compliments our starters very well, and in the 2nd half of last season he was rotating very well in our defense, etc.
I agree, but as long as the top 4 big men are the ones they are, reserve is a better role for him to have for the team.
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Sully for now...and not because hes better but let him grow and be more effective with the starters and bring bass in for more minutes and finishing games with kg
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Neither.
Start Darko, for the first few minutes at least. Gives us another hot blocking prescence early in the game. Set the defense in the first few minutes, prevent the other from scoring and give us a lead. Then Bass or Sully comes in to add more firepower on the offense.
I like Bass of the bench, playing most of the minutes at PF. He's high energy and an extra points coming in.
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Sully should start , for energy and get the team off to a quicker start. Bass is playing good and is a better player at the moment than Sully overall. We need Bass to knock down the shots when the starters are on the bench.
Bringing Bass off the bench is perfect timing . The opponent is trying to catch their wind after the first 10 minutes . Bring in fresh legs of Jet and Bass to pour on the steam and keep the intensity up.
I think Bass brings more off the bench than Sully . Sully being a rookie NEEDS to be with KG and Rondo and compliments their game. Bass can come in do his job when KG is on the bench better than Sully ...IMO.
Agree , Sully and Bass together is horrible . Bass and Green to better togeter.
I would like to see GREEN 3- BASS 4- Wilcox 5 with Jet and LEE/Bradley as the guards for the second team.
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I'm cool with starting Sully. Once they gel, Barbosa (Bradley or Lee), Terry, Green, Bass, and Wilcox have the potential to be a very, very strong second unit.
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I like Wilcox quite a bit, but unfortunately he needs to be behind KG, so he can't start.
I do like the idea of starting off by setting a defensive tone, so I'm not set on Sully starting until his defense improves. A lot.
Bass is at his best off the bench, and it seems to work better that way.
Quite a conundrum...
I start Wilcox and KG together, then sub in Bass halfway through the first for KG, then sub KG back in with Sully to finish the quarter. Darko gets spot minutes.
Sully needs to get stronger defensively to get many minutes. I'd go along with giving him a few minutes per game, but that's it, and only because we seem to be committed to this guy long term and have a hole at starting PF long-term.
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So, whether its Wilcox or Darko, someone is going to have to step up for the minutes when KG is on the bench.
KG is really the key here. Instead of an emphasis on who is starting, I think the big rotation should first look to what combination of bigs you want in the game when Garnett is resting. Once you figure that out, then you decide who you want on the floor with Garnett at the end of games. Those should be the two most important factors in the allocation of minutes. Once you figure that out, then you can see who is available to start.
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I like Wilcox quite a bit, but unfortunately he needs to be behind KG, so he can't start.
I do like the idea of starting off by setting a defensive tone, so I'm not set on Sully starting until his defense improves. A lot.
Bass is at his best off the bench, and it seems to work better that way.
Quite a conundrum...
I start Wilcox and KG together, then sub in Bass halfway through the first for KG, then sub KG back in with Sully to finish the quarter. Darko gets spot minutes.
Sully needs to get stronger defensively to get many minutes. I'd go along with giving him a few minutes per game, but that's it, and only because we seem to be committed to this guy long term and have a hole at starting PF long-term.
I agree with your first sentence. I like Wilcox off the bench so that we can bring in a legitimate big when KG sits down. I don't really care who starts between Sully and Bass. I do think it makes sense to start Sully to mask his defensive deficiencies. That doesn't mean that he has to play more minutes than Bass and Wilcox.
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I'd be interested in seeing Wilcox start - love his hustle and finishing ability with Rondo - but that would mean even more Bass + Sully combos.
Wilcox and Bass line substitutions for Sully and KG would probably be my preferred route at this point. I'd like to see a full-speed Wilcox, Green and Barbosa get some time on the floor with Rondo with KG as a defensive rebounder too.
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What's up with Darko? I thought we'd seem play backup C...
KG / Wilcox
with Darko and Bass off the bench would be our best 'traditional' lineup/rotation.
-B
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What's up with Darko? I thought we'd seem play backup C...
KG / Wilcox
with Darko and Bass off the bench would be our best 'traditional' lineup/rotation.
-B
I'd like to see KG/Wilcox start for a few games as well and see if it works.
I don't think Bass/Sullinger on the floor at the same time as subs would be the worst thing if done in limited minutes. Its not ideal but I think it could be effective in certain matchups.
I'm all for experimentation right now. It's early in the season and the team needs to find lineups that work and those that don't.
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I'd like Danny to trade Brandon Bass for Tyrus Thomas and start Ty Thomas at power forward.
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If we have Sullinger and Bass on the floor, Doc needs to balance the unit with Green at the 3 and Pierce at the 2.
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I'd like Danny to trade Brandon Bass for Tyrus Thomas and start Ty Thomas at power forward.
I could live with that. Ty Thomas's defense is on a whole other level than any other PF we have right now.
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I'd like Danny to trade Brandon Bass for Tyrus Thomas and start Ty Thomas at power forward.
I could live with that. Ty Thomas's defense is on a whole other level than any other PF we have right now.
The problem is, I don't think he would ever come close to learning the system well enough to see the floor. He can barely get on the floor in Charlotte.
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I'd like Danny to trade Brandon Bass for Tyrus Thomas and start Ty Thomas at power forward.
I could live with that. Ty Thomas's defense is on a whole other level than any other PF we have right now.
except that Tyrus Thomas' heath is about as reliable as Jermaine Oneal's health
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I'd like Danny to trade Brandon Bass for Tyrus Thomas and start Ty Thomas at power forward.
What's your take on Tyrus' struggles with the Bobcats since the lockout? He's having another rough start to this year. Seems to have lost some bounce and aggression (his FG% and rebounding have plummeted).
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I'd like Danny to trade Brandon Bass for Tyrus Thomas and start Ty Thomas at power forward.
What's your take on Tyrus' struggles with the Bobcats since the lockout? He's having another rough start to this year. Seems to have lost some bounce and aggression (his FG% and rebounding have plummeted).
I haven't seen him play this season so I can't really comment.
Last year, he was badly out of shape and had problems with his head coach (in large part due to his poor conditioning). He was also forced to play out of position at SF for a fair portion of his minutes in some pretty dysfunctional lineups (the other part of his problems with his coach - coach believed he was too out of shape to play his normal PF minutes). Fixable issues.
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I think Sully MUST start and not b/c he is better than Bass (he isn't) but because he is horrible on defense that he NEEDS KG more than Bass does!
I actually don't think who starts is the big problem, BASS AND SULLY TOGETHER IS TERRIBLE!!! AGAIN, BASS AND SULLY TOGETHER= TERRIBLE!!!!!
If you start Bass or Sully, you CANNOT bring the other off the bench as the first big!! I think this is one of the biggest mistakes Doc makes (the other, not playing Darko, Wilcox (b4 last night), or Collins... playing small ball ALL THE TIME)!!!
Doc will go small no matter how negatively it affects the team! Trying to be Mia is the WORST idea EVER!!!!
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Wilcox is vital off the bench. I'd prefer to start Sullinger or Bass for spacing reasons with Rondo. Other than that, my only preference is to always have one of KG, Sully, or Wilcox on the floor at all times for rebounding purposes (never Bass and Darko together).
Bass is my first choice, simply because Sullinger has looked dreadful defensively at C when KG is first to the bench.
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Sully fits better with the starter but Im not so sure if hes deserving of the minutes hes getting. Bass and Green are just better overall players and I think they should be getting more minutes.
Sully, however, fits well with the starters because he is only player that rebounds and gives us a low post presence. He is the only player that crashes the boards can play in the paint. He is the perfect fit for the starting unit because he can be in the right place at the right time and not demand any offensive touches. He is what Perk should have been for us, easy buckets under the hoop when hes not guarded, with better hands and a better offensive game.
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start Sully, but I think when KG is coming out, you should either bring wilcox in, or replace sully/KG with Bass/Wilcox.
I just dont like that bass/Sully lineup defensively
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I think this year we are going to see doc play with a lot of things (record be [dang]ed) until he comes up with best starting lineup and first lot of subs (10 men)
this team is that deep - wilcox is going to bring it but is he 3rd string pf or 2nd string center, lots of depth/kinks to work out
Lee has not been adding much to the starting unit but does this mean start jet who is used to coming off the bench (and will come into his stride), do a sg pierce, sf green which would help green but might hurt us on d with pp being slower than some of the younger elite sg, barbosa ? nah I'd rather him off the bench
Bass has shown more this year, love his new effort on the boards. Sully is a find, a think a year or 2 away but it might make sense to start him then as others have stated his defensive lapses will be minimized. A second unit with terry and bass doing pick and rolls and pick and pops is nice.
I do think we are too reliant on rondo and kg. When either guy goes out its noticeable and rondo cannot play pg in today's nba for 40 minutes and be at the top of his game. We need wilcox or Darko (or a trade) to garner(ett) up the front court and terry to step up (lee !) or bradley to come back.
Again I think it is a work in progress, we only have a few games into season so no big deal.
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To me, it's Sully.
He seems to play better when he has KG on the court with him, and his aggressvieness on the boards (and ability to score down low) really does seem to fit better with out starting group.
In the two games since Sully got moved to the starting five we have come out aggressive to start, and built up a big initial leads - only to give up ground again when the starters rested. We also won both games.
Aside from this, I think Bass has been rebounding better (and attacking the rim more aggressively) when he's playing on the second unit. The combination of Bass + Wilcox also gives us nice mobility in the front court, and combined with the rest of the roster (Green, Barbosa, Terry) it gives us an athletic second unit that can run other teams to the ground on offense.
Defensively I feel that Bass has been pretty unspectacular, and hasn't really been much better then Sully so far. I do like his energy that he's bringing though.
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In other words , Sully is KG's boy inside, when KG comes out , then Sully should follow him to the bench, or be his shadow. Leaving Sully to play center is a NO NO.
Wilcox, Green and Bass should rotate in for JG, PP, and Sully. Hopefully AB and Jet will drive this unit one day in a running offense.
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I'd like to see Wilcox sub in for Garnett instead of Bass.
Sully and Wilcox together is a very interesting look. See what they can get going together before subbing in Bass for Sully, and then KG for Wilcox.
Or just start Bass and have Sully and Wilcox come in after 5 minutes.
So many options with just those 4 guys.
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The Bass/Sully combo seems to get the universal thumbs down.
Bass/KG seems to be okay, or has worked okay in the past.
KG/Sully looks good (outside/inside).
KG/Wilcox has looked good.
Bass/Wilcox is promising.
Sully/Wilcox might be okay.
Anything except Bass/Sully on the floor and we're okay, and what does Doc use? Cripes. Sully should be gifted 10 1st-half minutes perhaps, but only with KG or Wilcox.
In other words, KG, Wilcox, Bass is a nice 3-big rotation when it's working out, and Sully is 4th big. When Bass is in the right role, he's 3rd big. So the hole right now is starting PF, and I vote for Wilcox for now, given the shorter spurts plan for KG.
When Darko is ready to take minutes from somebody, then he will. There's a good chance that could be Wilcox and/or Sully.
Unless there's a trade involving Bass and one of the guards, which would make sense. Everyone sees Sully as the future, and Bass as a good player. Unfortunately, I think promises were made to Lee and JET in their coming here that would preclude them being shipped out midseason, and possibly to Bass as well...
But I think Bass, Bradley, and possibly Joseph/Melo are the package to move. Nice rotation pieces, but with ceilings. Throw in a 1st and shoot for a star.