CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: chambers on November 04, 2012, 06:35:31 PM
-
It's staring me in the face.
Overkill at the shooting guard position.
KG and Pierce without much tread left on the tyres (although what is left on those tyres is still dang good).
The Heat continually beating us with Bosh stretching the floor and taking KG away from the basket- leaving Lebron and Wade to have a field day in the paint.
The 76ers and Pacers getting much stronger, faster and closer to being a contender. Derrick Rose and the Bulls amnestying Boozer soon and going after someone like Gasol.
I won't even start on the Lakers size in the West.
Some people are claiming we are discussing trades in a frenzy and we are worried because of the slow start. That doesn't bother me at all. We have many fresh faces and young guys learning the ropes, it will always take time to build chemistry and continuity. We will be a great team in time this season. But are we really good enough to beat the Heat, the 76ers, the Pacers, or OKC and LA- even the Spurs?
I've looked at our roster from the day we signed Terry and Lee and wondered what was going on.
I think that logically this team is still one piece from being a serious title contender and that Danny is going to do his best to make the most out of the precious few years that we have KG out there in the middle.
Sully is only a rookie and it's only the third game but he is the perfect trade chip. Lottery talent that falls to #21, we pick him up and show him off to the league with KG making up for his defensive horridness and Rondo giving him easy looks and easy points.
I like Sully and he'll be a great player one day. The fact is that this team doesn't have time for Sully to grow into a solid role player. We have 2-3 years with KG left. Maybe 2 with Pierce. Sully isn't going to blossom into anywhere near the level of talent we need to compete with the Heat, Bulls and Philly while we have KG.
We need an All Star to help KG now, not a rookie that's going to need 2-3 seasons to start reaching his potential.
Avery is in the same boat, he's an elite defender, but do we think we can win a title with Sully and Avery as our starting 2 and 4 ?
I just don't think it's a realistic outcome. It stinks of mediocrity and I don't think KG signed on for 3 years of mediocrity.
We've also seen we can't beat the elite teams with Bass as our starting PF. Sully ain't better than Bass and won't be for some while.
How do we get an All Star? To me it's a trade of Sully, Bradley, Bass and probably a draft pick or two and hopefully end up with Josh Smith, Verajao, Millsap or some borderline All Star big that knows how to defend.
Who we get is also an issue, I just name those above because they tick most of the boxes for characteristics that we are missing at the moment and they may be available come All Star break. (More size, interior defense and rebounding but can run the floor with Rondo)
Someone like Smith for all his shooting woes can guard Lebron, he can guard Gasol, he can guard Bynum and he can patrol the paint and turn us into a defensive juggernaught.
Rondo giving him the easiest transition points of his career can't hurt either. There should be opportunities come All Star break for us to acquire someone like Smith, and I think we are going to roll the dice because our window has 2-3 years left as KG and Paul retire with Rondo entering his prime.
I believe that Danny won't stand for mediocrity, he's an all in type of guy and at the moment we are not all in with KG+Pierce having limited time left, and Miami and the East getting tougher each season there's precious time left to get this thing in motion.
We aren't necessarily pretenders, but we aren't serious contenders either and I think a move will be made to move us up into that category with the Thunder, Lakers and Heat.
-
If it isn't Josh Smith or a legit big, I'm not down for it.
-
I don't think there will be one, but I voted maybe in 2 months after Danny takes a look.
As for my opinion. I think this team is stacked. I think is up to Doc to figure how the pieces fit....and he isn't too good at it when given too many pieces. So we'll see.
As for who's out there to trade/upgrade. Not sure what the answer would be. Not sure how the contracts would work out. Let me know when we find a better backup 3 than JGreen.
...oh, and that's the rub - isn't it. Is JGreen here to be just a back up?!?
-
I'd say Bass is the most likely to be moved. Rather than the guards.
None of the guards have that much trade value. Hard to get a quality big man who is good enough to upgrade this team in return for Courtney Lee. Bass (replacement big in trade) + incentives seems more likely to be a winning package.
-
I think so. We just got stacked with mid-level talent.
We basically signed three mid-level guys at once in Lee, JET, and Bass, while Barbosa is a mid-level talent player, Darko could be with one good season, and Green might actually be a mid-level guy who is just overpaid.
But unless one of them is playing like a star rather than an MLE or journeyman guy, we're not contending.
Every option to pull in a star for a bag of what we've got is a good idea. Smith or Milsap probably would be perfect, I admit, and could be probably had for a package of the stuff we have without giving up Bradley or Green.
Bass plus Lee or JET, maybe Collins, draft picks and cash = who?
Like Doc suggested, it's not a 10-on-10 league.
The wildcard is that we have to see how Bradley comes back. If he's a health risk for the future, I think Danny uses him as a sweetener and keeps Lee and Barbosa, and resigns Barbosa in the offseason to defend the title.
In that case, Bradley, Bass, Collins, Melo, and JET are out along with some 1sts for Josh Smith.
We have Rondo/Lee/Pierce/Smith/KG starting, with Barbosa, Green, and Wilcox off the bench, with Darko getting spot minutes due to matchups.
-
I think so. We just got stacked with mid-level talent.
We basically signed three mid-level guys at once in Lee, JET, and Bass, while Barbosa is a mid-level talent player, Darko could be with one good season, and Green might actually be a mid-level guy who is just overpaid.
But unless one of them is playing like a star rather than an MLE or journeyman guy, we're not contending.
Every option to pull in a star for a bag of what we've got is a good idea. Smith or Milsap probably would be perfect, I admit, and could be probably had for a package of the stuff we have without giving up Bradley or Green.
Bass plus Lee or JET, maybe Collins, draft picks and cash = who?
Like Doc suggested, it's not a 10-on-10 league.
The wildcard is that we have to see how Bradley comes back. If he's a health risk for the future, I think Danny uses him as a sweetener and keeps Lee and Barbosa, and resigns Barbosa in the offseason to defend the title.
In that case, Bradley, Bass, Collins, Melo, and JET are out along with some 1sts for Josh Smith.
We have Rondo/Lee/Pierce/Smith/KG starting, with Barbosa, Green, and Wilcox off the bench, with Darko getting spot minutes due to matchups.
I mostly agree with this. But I think we could find a way to keep Terry. Depending on how Bradley performs when he returns.
-
The interesting problems with Josh Smith is that he's a free agent at the end of this year. Do we want to pay him $17million or more a year for the next four or five years? Could we even afford to keep him for the future?
I do agree with most everyone else that he would be a good fit for this team, but I'm not sure that trading for him this season is the practical solution.
-
No one ever mentions Amir Johnson here. Young athletic guy who can rebound, play inside, and run the floor with Rondo.
Would be much less costly too get than Josh Smith too.
-
If it isn't Josh Smith or a legit big, I'm not down for it.
this is my opinion as well
-
No one ever mentions Amir Johnson here. Young athletic guy who can rebound, play inside, and run the floor with Rondo.
Would be much less costly too get than Josh Smith too.
We need an All Star. Amir is good, but so is Avery Bradley.
These guys don't take you to the promised land. (in my opinion).
Trade our mid level chips for one big swinger.
Has to be the plan with so many chips.
-
No one ever mentions Amir Johnson here. Young athletic guy who can rebound, play inside, and run the floor with Rondo.
Would be much less costly too get than Josh Smith too.
We need an All Star. Amir is good, but so is Avery Bradley.
These guys don't take you to the promised land. (in my opinion).
Trade our mid level chips for one big swinger.
Has to be the plan with so many chips.
This is the only trade I would really do to be honest.
Josh Smith does answer a lot of questions on the defensive end.
If we can hold onto jeff and somehow land josh there could be some really good, tall, athletic lineups there.
-
The interesting problems with Josh Smith is that he's a free agent at the end of this year. Do we want to pay him $17million or more a year for the next four or five years? Could we even afford to keep him for the future?
I do agree with most everyone else that he would be a good fit for this team, but I'm not sure that trading for him this season is the practical solution.
This is a big consideration IMHO. The easy answer is if we resign Pierce to a multi year deal ala KG at a discount. If Paul is willing it would really help us for the future and likely get him another ring. I think we have to give up Green, Lee and likely Sullinger with picks to get him though.
-
No one ever mentions Amir Johnson here. Young athletic guy who can rebound, play inside, and run the floor with Rondo.
Would be much less costly too get than Josh Smith too.
I like Amir Johnson. He'd be a great fit.
-
No one ever mentions Amir Johnson here. Young athletic guy who can rebound, play inside, and run the floor with Rondo.
Would be much less costly too get than Josh Smith too.
I like Amir Johnson. He'd be a great fit.
He would likely start beside KG. I seriously doubt Toronto trades him.
-
The interesting problems with Josh Smith is that he's a free agent at the end of this year. Do we want to pay him $17million or more a year for the next four or five years? Could we even afford to keep him for the future?
I do agree with most everyone else that he would be a good fit for this team, but I'm not sure that trading for him this season is the practical solution.
This is a big consideration IMHO. The easy answer is if we resign Pierce to a multi year deal ala KG at a discount. If Paul is willing it would really help us for the future and likely get him another ring. I think we have to give up Green, Lee and likely Sullinger with picks to get him though.
It depends, if I'm sending a big hamper of players and picks to the hawks for an all star in return, Im probably going to want horford instead of smoove to be honest. It just seems that horford is untouchable.
-
No one ever mentions Amir Johnson here. Young athletic guy who can rebound, play inside, and run the floor with Rondo.
Would be much less costly too get than Josh Smith too.
We need an All Star. Amir is good, but so is Avery Bradley.
These guys don't take you to the promised land. (in my opinion).
Trade our mid level chips for one big swinger.
Has to be the plan with so many chips.
If we are really planning to swing for the fences, I am not convinced that Josh Smith (and I do really like his game) is that swing for the fences guy.
I see a lot of rumbling and grumbling among the faithful in the near future if Josh Smith is the basket that Danny puts all the eggs in.
-
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Paul_Pierce_2008-01-13.jpg/300px-Paul_Pierce_2008-01-13.jpg)
he is playing great ball
most important he runs faster and more lift on his jumpshot
there is a springs in his step he didnt have last season
*keep him outta trade talks*
-
No one ever mentions Amir Johnson here. Young athletic guy who can rebound, play inside, and run the floor with Rondo.
Would be much less costly too get than Josh Smith too.
We need an All Star. Amir is good, but so is Avery Bradley.
These guys don't take you to the promised land. (in my opinion).
Trade our mid level chips for one big swinger.
Has to be the plan with so many chips.
If we are really planning to swing for the fences, I am not convinced that Josh Smith (and I do really like his game) is that swing for the fences guy.
I see a lot of rumbling and grumbling among the faithful in the near future if Josh Smith is the basket that Danny puts all the eggs in.
That's why I don't think it takes all the eggs.
We don't give up the farm. We aim for our desired final lineup and keep everything else on the table, yes, but we don't give away the farm unless it makes it our year or it comes with a likely extension that works.
Bass or Sully (likely Bass for salary, and they don't push too hard for Sully because they want Horford at PF and working inside. Bass is a great backup.
We'll have to give up another midlevel contract, Lee or JET. I say we push JET due to lack of D, quite frankly. They take Melo the prospect and possibly Joseph for their rebuild roster. That puts the money right I think, but would work with Lee or Bradley just as well, or 2 of the 3, or one plus Barbosa....
SO I'd say what we have to offer includes Bass, Melo and Joseph, and one guard from the stable. That's not all the eggs because we'd still have Sully to step in to start next year and Green backing up both forward spots, a returning 3 guard rotation, and KG starting at the 5.
We could up it by adding a pick(s) and cash if he signs an extension.
The upped offer amounts to a third of the roster, a future 1st rounder, and money. Danny might be able to net an allstar PF (or C if KG moves back) with that package.
Who would he want besides Smith? I can't think of a better fit any more after seeing what we've got already with Green, Bradley, and Sully.
-
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Paul_Pierce_2008-01-13.jpg/300px-Paul_Pierce_2008-01-13.jpg)
he is playing great ball
most important he runs faster and more lift on his jumpshot
there is a springs in his step he didnt have last season
*keep him outta trade talks*
Amen the Captain should be off the table period
-
We could make a trade, but Im not sure about our 'chips'.
Rondo, Pierce, and KG are likely all off the table.
As are Jeff Green and possibly Avery Bradley, until either one starts to look special again.
After that..unproven young guns. Don't see how a 'homerun' trade would work.
-
We could make a trade, but Im not sure about our 'chips'.
Rondo, Pierce, and KG are likely all off the table.
As are Jeff Green and possibly Avery Bradley, until either one starts to look special again.
After that..unproven young guns. Don't see how a 'homerun' trade would work.
Why is Green off the table? If we could trade him (a borderline-starter) and some chips for a bona-fide all-star, why wouldn't we?
EDIT: Borderline starter, not all-star. Got my words mixed up.
But yes I agree Bradley should be off the table. Kid is special as long as he's the same after his return (knock on wood).
-
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Paul_Pierce_2008-01-13.jpg/300px-Paul_Pierce_2008-01-13.jpg)
he is playing great ball
most important he runs faster and more lift on his jumpshot
there is a springs in his step he didnt have last season
*keep him outta trade talks*
Amen the Captain should be off the table period
Pierce starts every non-lockout season looking renewed and full of energy. Then the end of the season comes and we forget how great he looked at the beginning as he drags his body around. Then the next pre-season comes and we marvel again at how good he looks.
-
next bad thing to losing KG , would be Pierce. Might as well lock up the shop and go home.
-
We could make a trade, but Im not sure about our 'chips'.
Rondo, Pierce, and KG are likely all off the table.
As are Jeff Green and possibly Avery Bradley, until either one starts to look special again.
After that..unproven young guns. Don't see how a 'homerun' trade would work.
Why is Green off the table? If we could trade him (a borderline-starter) and some chips for a bona-fide all-star, why wouldn't we?
EDIT: Borderline starter, not all-star. Got my words mixed up.
But yes I agree Bradley should be off the table. Kid is special as long as he's the same after his return (knock on wood).
I meant Green and Bradley because right now their prices are at an all-time low. They need to build up value before they can be traded for real value coming back. Unless we get a dumb GM.
-
No one ever mentions Amir Johnson here. Young athletic guy who can rebound, play inside, and run the floor with Rondo.
Would be much less costly too get than Josh Smith too.
We need an All Star. Amir is good, but so is Avery Bradley.
These guys don't take you to the promised land. (in my opinion).
Trade our mid level chips for one big swinger.
Has to be the plan with so many chips.
If we are really planning to swing for the fences, I am not convinced that Josh Smith (and I do really like his game) is that swing for the fences guy.
I see a lot of rumbling and grumbling among the faithful in the near future if Josh Smith is the basket that Danny puts all the eggs in.
That's why I don't think it takes all the eggs.
We don't give up the farm. We aim for our desired final lineup and keep everything else on the table, yes, but we don't give away the farm unless it makes it our year or it comes with a likely extension that works.
Bass or Sully (likely Bass for salary, and they don't push too hard for Sully because they want Horford at PF and working inside. Bass is a great backup.
We'll have to give up another midlevel contract, Lee or JET. I say we push JET due to lack of D, quite frankly. They take Melo the prospect and possibly Joseph for their rebuild roster. That puts the money right I think, but would work with Lee or Bradley just as well, or 2 of the 3, or one plus Barbosa....
SO I'd say what we have to offer includes Bass, Melo and Joseph, and one guard from the stable. That's not all the eggs because we'd still have Sully to step in to start next year and Green backing up both forward spots, a returning 3 guard rotation, and KG starting at the 5.
We could up it by adding a pick(s) and cash if he signs an extension.
The upped offer amounts to a third of the roster, a future 1st rounder, and money. Danny might be able to net an allstar PF (or C if KG moves back) with that package.
Who would he want besides Smith? I can't think of a better fit any more after seeing what we've got already with Green, Bradley, and Sully.
The eggs I was referring to wasn't so much who we would be giving up to get him, but what we would have to pay him to keep him.
-
Rondo / Terry / Pierce / Smith / KG is a championship caliber team.
Barbosa / Lee / Joseph / Wilcox / Darko is more than enough help off the bench.
Danny, get it done.
-
No one ever mentions Amir Johnson here. Young athletic guy who can rebound, play inside, and run the floor with Rondo.
Would be much less costly too get than Josh Smith too.
We need an All Star. Amir is good, but so is Avery Bradley.
These guys don't take you to the promised land. (in my opinion).
Trade our mid level chips for one big swinger.
Has to be the plan with so many chips.
If we are really planning to swing for the fences, I am not convinced that Josh Smith (and I do really like his game) is that swing for the fences guy.
I see a lot of rumbling and grumbling among the faithful in the near future if Josh Smith is the basket that Danny puts all the eggs in.
That's why I don't think it takes all the eggs.
We don't give up the farm. We aim for our desired final lineup and keep everything else on the table, yes, but we don't give away the farm unless it makes it our year or it comes with a likely extension that works.
Bass or Sully (likely Bass for salary, and they don't push too hard for Sully because they want Horford at PF and working inside. Bass is a great backup.
We'll have to give up another midlevel contract, Lee or JET. I say we push JET due to lack of D, quite frankly. They take Melo the prospect and possibly Joseph for their rebuild roster. That puts the money right I think, but would work with Lee or Bradley just as well, or 2 of the 3, or one plus Barbosa....
SO I'd say what we have to offer includes Bass, Melo and Joseph, and one guard from the stable. That's not all the eggs because we'd still have Sully to step in to start next year and Green backing up both forward spots, a returning 3 guard rotation, and KG starting at the 5.
We could up it by adding a pick(s) and cash if he signs an extension.
The upped offer amounts to a third of the roster, a future 1st rounder, and money. Danny might be able to net an allstar PF (or C if KG moves back) with that package.
Who would he want besides Smith? I can't think of a better fit any more after seeing what we've got already with Green, Bradley, and Sully.
The eggs I was referring to wasn't so much who we would be giving up to get him, but what we would have to pay him to keep him.
I'd say that the question is the same: Is one Smith worth a JET, a Bass, Melo, Joseph, and another rookie 1st? They're about even cash too, I think.
But then the roster shakes out with Rondo and Smith being max or near-max guys, followed by what looks like Green and Bradley as eventual complementary starters in the $5-9M range, plus KG for now, and an MLE C in the future.
If you like that lineup in the future, it's good, right?
Rondo/Bradley/Green/Smith/MLE Center
Right now, it works with Pierce and KG starting and Green as a 6th man. In the future, it has to work with Smith, Green, Rondo, Bradley (or Lee, I guess), and and MLE Center, which is pretty much the only way we'll get one once the contracts are all signed.
I think if Green can shoot from 3 and can find some type of go-to move in the half-court, it works because the defense will be dominant and Rondo can penetrate quite well. I think Smith, Green, and Rondo could total 60 ppg on average, and would combine for 20 boards, too.
As long as we keep enough pieces to contend this year, I think Danny tries to make a big move at the deadline.
-
Agreed with those suggesting that we try to trade for Horford if anyone from the Hawks' roster. Seems a whole lot less likely than Smith, given his history of trade rumours/demands etc, and also the fact that he's a better player... But he would be nice to have here.
Good on the low block, has a nice midrange game, great on the boards, reasonable defender. Would slot in very nicely next to KG. However I thought he was making more than Smith... Will have to go and check the salaries. Though with Smith's trade kicker, may not be as big a gap.
-
Rondo / Terry / Pierce / Smith / KG is a championship caliber team.
Barbosa / Lee / Joseph / Wilcox / Darko is more than enough help off the bench.
Danny, get it done.
I like Rondo / Terry / Pierce / KG / Horford better
-
No one ever mentions Amir Johnson here. Young athletic guy who can rebound, play inside, and run the floor with Rondo.
Would be much less costly too get than Josh Smith too.
We need an All Star. Amir is good, but so is Avery Bradley.
These guys don't take you to the promised land. (in my opinion).
Trade our mid level chips for one big swinger.
Has to be the plan with so many chips.
If we are really planning to swing for the fences, I am not convinced that Josh Smith (and I do really like his game) is that swing for the fences guy.
I see a lot of rumbling and grumbling among the faithful in the near future if Josh Smith is the basket that Danny puts all the eggs in.
That's why I don't think it takes all the eggs.
We don't give up the farm. We aim for our desired final lineup and keep everything else on the table, yes, but we don't give away the farm unless it makes it our year or it comes with a likely extension that works.
Bass or Sully (likely Bass for salary, and they don't push too hard for Sully because they want Horford at PF and working inside. Bass is a great backup.
We'll have to give up another midlevel contract, Lee or JET. I say we push JET due to lack of D, quite frankly. They take Melo the prospect and possibly Joseph for their rebuild roster. That puts the money right I think, but would work with Lee or Bradley just as well, or 2 of the 3, or one plus Barbosa....
SO I'd say what we have to offer includes Bass, Melo and Joseph, and one guard from the stable. That's not all the eggs because we'd still have Sully to step in to start next year and Green backing up both forward spots, a returning 3 guard rotation, and KG starting at the 5.
We could up it by adding a pick(s) and cash if he signs an extension.
The upped offer amounts to a third of the roster, a future 1st rounder, and money. Danny might be able to net an allstar PF (or C if KG moves back) with that package.
Who would he want besides Smith? I can't think of a better fit any more after seeing what we've got already with Green, Bradley, and Sully.
The eggs I was referring to wasn't so much who we would be giving up to get him, but what we would have to pay him to keep him.
I'd say that the question is the same: Is one Smith worth a JET, a Bass, Melo, Joseph, and another rookie 1st? They're about even cash too, I think.
But then the roster shakes out with Rondo and Smith being max or near-max guys, followed by what looks like Green and Bradley as eventual complementary starters in the $5-9M range, plus KG for now, and an MLE C in the future.
If you like that lineup in the future, it's good, right?
Rondo/Bradley/Green/Smith/MLE Center
Right now, it works with Pierce and KG starting and Green as a 6th man. In the future, it has to work with Smith, Green, Rondo, Bradley (or Lee, I guess), and and MLE Center, which is pretty much the only way we'll get one once the contracts are all signed.
I think if Green can shoot from 3 and can find some type of go-to move in the half-court, it works because the defense will be dominant and Rondo can penetrate quite well. I think Smith, Green, and Rondo could total 60 ppg on average, and would combine for 20 boards, too.
As long as we keep enough pieces to contend this year, I think Danny tries to make a big move at the deadline.
To your first part, I don't think necessarily think one Smoove is worth a JET, a Bass, a Melo, a Joseph, and a draft pick. Sure, they are probably roughly equal in an on-the-court sense, but they are not in a flexibility sense. I feel that one of the things this roster has going for it is it's flexibility for the future. I guess this means that at some point a relatively big move is going to need to be made. I'm just not sold on swinging at the first pitch.
I don't hate that lineup that you've proposed for the future, but I'm not sure I'm entirely in love with it, either.
"Stuck with Josh Smith" is a refrain that keeps running through my mind as a potential downside to this whole thing.
Sometimes you got to take risks, though. We'll see what happens.
-
Rondo / Terry / Pierce / Smith / KG is a championship caliber team.
Barbosa / Lee / Joseph / Wilcox / Darko is more than enough help off the bench.
Danny, get it done.
I like Rondo / Terry / Pierce / KG / Horford better
I'm pretty sure Al Horford's not for sale for a collection of role players and prospects.
-
anyone think ATL would go for Bass, Green, Sully & a pick for Josh Smith or could they get more? I have an awful feeling in my gut that the Lakers will find a way to flip Gasol for Smith, probably in a 3 or 4 way trade.
But my hope for the season is that Danny can make a trade like that and then pick up quality free agents like KMart and Pietrus who will take discounts to compete for a title.
-
Rondo / Terry / Pierce / Smith / KG is a championship caliber team.
Barbosa / Lee / Joseph / Wilcox / Darko is more than enough help off the bench.
Danny, get it done.
I like Rondo / Terry / Pierce / KG / Horford better
I'm pretty sure Al Horford's not for sale for a collection of role players and prospects.
Unfortunately, I think you're right! Atlanta want to keep him for the same reasons we want to get him.
Oh, and I would still expect KG to play C in that lineup anyway. Horford is really a PF, not a C.
-
Rondo / Terry / Pierce / Smith / KG is a championship caliber team.
Barbosa / Lee / Joseph / Wilcox / Darko is more than enough help off the bench.
Danny, get it done.
I'd rather start Lee and have JET backup Rondo, but I agree, which means we're both high on Joseph and the rest of the roster. Good things happen when he plays, and Barbosa/JET can carry the bench scoring load.
Does that mean Bass, Green, Sully, Bradley, Melo are all on the table?
I'd rather keep Green, but pairing him with Bradley, plus Bass for salary, would be a heck of a package for an established star. Not sure how many options there would be available, but I think they'd actually be cheaper than that.
That's a pretty good 2-3-4 roster, starting or bench. Add a pick and cash and a rebuilding team takes the deal.
Do we want David Lee or someone like that? Al J.? Smith, of course. Who's in HOU? There must be someone other than Smith, or it will cost the farm.
-
anyone think ATL would go for Bass, Green, Sully & a pick for Josh Smith or could they get more? I have an awful feeling in my gut that the Lakers will find a way to flip Gasol for Smith, probably in a 3 or 4 way trade.
But my hope for the season is that Danny can make a trade like that and then pick up quality free agents like KMart and Pietrus who will take discounts to compete for a title.
Teague/ Harris
Williams/ Morrow
Green/ James/ Korver
Sullinger/ Bass
Horford/ Pachulia
Actually not too shabby for Atlanta.
-
Rondo / Terry / Pierce / Smith / KG is a championship caliber team.
Barbosa / Lee / Joseph / Wilcox / Darko is more than enough help off the bench.
Danny, get it done.
I like Rondo / Terry / Pierce / KG / Horford better
I'm pretty sure Al Horford's not for sale for a collection of role players and prospects.
What did Orlando get for Howard that wasn't role players, prospects and picks?
Two great players are very rarely straight swapped for each other.
We have the ability to make a package for a very good player this year. If we want that is.
-
Rondo / Terry / Pierce / Smith / KG is a championship caliber team.
Barbosa / Lee / Joseph / Wilcox / Darko is more than enough help off the bench.
Danny, get it done.
I like Rondo / Terry / Pierce / KG / Horford better
I'm pretty sure Al Horford's not for sale for a collection of role players and prospects.
What did Orlando get for Howard that wasn't role players, prospects and picks?
Two great players are very rarely straight swapped for each other.
We have the ability to make a package for a very good player this year. If we want that is.
The reason that people are talking about Smith is that he's scheduled to be a free agent this off-season. He is unlikely to re-sign with Atlanta, so they will be looking to get any kind of return on him that they can.
Howard was in a similar position with Orlando. It was a terrible deal for them, but they were just looking to unload him.
Al Horford is in an entirely different position with Atlanta. He's signed to what amounts to a very good contract for a number of years. They like him, and they aren't giving him away for peanuts.
-
I am not convined that other teams will think Jeff Green is a valuable trade piece. Coming off heart surgery and being traded just last year by OKC ? He needs to put up some serious numbers to be the centerpiece of a major trade IMHO.
-
Danny Ainge is always willing to make a trade. He'll make one at any point in the year, depending on what he perceives to be the relative value of the players involved. I don't think he sets out with a plan in mind to make a mid-season trade. He is basically always shopping around.
-
Someone like Smith for all his shooting woes can guard Lebron, he can guard Gasol, he can guard Bynum and he can patrol the paint and turn us into a defensive juggernaught
Really?? Ill give you that he can do a better then average job on Lebron, Gasol maybe, Bynum no way in hell. Smith isnt that much bigger then Bass or Green. He can not guard real centers.
Answering the first question.I do expect Ainge to make some kind of mid season trade. The problem is finding a player who will really fit what the Cs need.
Josh Smith, is an upgrade at the 4. His pending free agency really makes this a question of the future. Can a post KG + PP team win with Rondo and Josh Smith as there core? Neither player can really shoot and this scares me. Danny would need to find an allstar 2 or 3 to be the teams go to scoring option.
Big AL, would play the 4/5 next to KG. Instantly making the Cs a better rebounding team. However the D would suffer and the O would slow down. I also don't like the idea of Big AL being the defensive anchor post KG. Small point. If Sully isn't part of the trade I don't think him and Al play well together. (Physically similar to AL and Love combo)
Paul Milsap, would be an upgrade over Bass. However not enough where I would want the Cs to give up the farm (AB or Sully) to get him. Last year he averaged around 16pts 9 rb Bass was at 13pt 6rb. Milsap is a better defender then either Bass or Sully but he is shorter then either of them.
I can't think of any other reasonable options..
-
One other thought (thinking outside the box)
Bass + Lee for Danny Granger (if healthy)
This would be a season long comitment to small ball. Start Green at PF and have Granger come off the bench for the 3 or the 4. This would be a great counter to the Heats best lineups.
Wade Avery
Ray Rondo
Battier Pierce
Lebron Granger
Bosh KG
The obvious issues here are A. Is Granger healthy? B. Can the Cs win with Greens defense at the 4? C. Can Sully or Darko contribute enough against big teams?
-
If we make a mid season trade it will only be a "big" trade if we are doing poorly. Even then it may not happen if, like last year, Doc is telling Danny that this team is a great team and will turn things around.
He did that constantly last year and was proven correct. His assets he had last year for a trade(E'Twaun, JJJ, Sasha Pavlovic, Sean Williams, draft picks) he held until after the season and then did the trade for Lee.
I think the C's live and die with this team this year with very little change. Change via a big trade killed them two years ago. Last year no trade and they were the best team in the second half of the year.
-
One other thought (thinking outside the box)
Bass + Lee for Danny Granger (if healthy)
This would be a season long comitment to small ball. Start Green at PF and have Granger come off the bench for the 3 or the 4. This would be a great counter to the Heats best lineups.
Wade Avery
Ray Rondo
Battier Pierce
Lebron Granger
Bosh KG
The obvious issues here are A. Is Granger healthy? B. Can the Cs win with Greens defense at the 4? C. Can Sully or Darko contribute enough against big teams?
2 of our best 5 players play Small Forward and they already cant get enough minutes. Why add another Small forward who is capable of starting who also has injury issues.
If we make a trade we go big man. We have to.
-
I think that the Celtics will probably make a trade. I do not believe that Bass, Green, or Terry will be involved in any deal unless the team is under .500.
I wouldn't be shocked if the trade Ainge ends up making is shipping out a player for a protected second-round pick to create roster space to pick up a veteran big who was bought out.
-
Such a thing will never surprise me with the Celtics.
-
Go after Favors on Kanter... they'll offer Millisap... and eventually you can settle on Big Al
-
If I was going after a big and Josh SMith wasnt reasonabley priced I would look at Anderson Varejao. He plays defense and rebounds, runs the floor well.
Move KG back to PF and start them together. Bring Green, Sullinger or Bass off the bench as KG's backup and we still have Darko/Collins.
Probably cost Melo, Bass or Green and a pick.
-
We can't trade Green unless we get a SF in return. We're too thin there and Courtney Lee at SF would just see post up after post up.
If we could get Varejao for Bass+Melo+1st I would definitely do that. He's only 30 and he's an energy guy. He is one of my least favorite NBA players but if we can trade some of our big man depth for big man skill I'm all for it, even at the cost of a 1st.
-
We can't trade Green unless we get a SF in return. We're too thin there and Courtney Lee at SF would just see post up after post up.
If we could get Varejao for Bass+Melo+1st I would definitely do that. He's only 30 and he's an energy guy. He is one of my least favorite NBA players but if we can trade some of our big man depth for big man skill I'm all for it, even at the cost of a 1st.
Of course you can trade Green for another position of need.
Then trade a lesser big man for a lesser SF.
-
I wonder if there is any chance New Orleans decides by January that they have buyer's remorse with respect to Ryan Anderson.
-
One other thought (thinking outside the box)
Bass + Lee for Danny Granger (if healthy)
This is an idea I could get behind. I doubt the Pacers do it but if they would I'd take it in a second. I'd even give them a 1st to do it.
I also think that if we moved Bass and Lee we'd have more minutes at SF. Pierce would have to play a bit more SG while Avery and possibly less overall minutes when he gets back. Green would get more minutes at PF and it would give Danny Granger a while to get healthy. It also opens up a roster spot for Kenyon Martin.
Go after Favors on Kanter... they'll offer Millisap... and eventually you can settle on Big Al
We can't really afford Jefferson. We kind of can but it would take Green and Bass and someone else who makes at least the vet's minimum. I would do it but we'd have to find a FA small forward. Oh yeah and we have to pay them as little as possible. I love the idea of Millsap though. Guy is a force in the paint.
Of course you can trade Green for another position of need.
Then trade a lesser big man for a lesser SF.
Okay, I know you can. I was saying it's not a great idea. Mostly because getting a proficient SF within our salary constraints will be tough. We invested a lot in Green not only for this team but for the future. There are SFs we could get. None of them will do much for guarding Carmelo, James or Durant. And I guess I have to hope Green might.
Here are some other mid-season options to look at:
Gortat (it would take a lot)
Bargnani (he will fit in here with his complete lack of rebounding)
Okafor (same salary as Josh Smith but probably easier to trade for)
-
Man the people we move in and out of here. It's hillarious.
-
Man the people we move in and out of here. It's hillarious.
It's gotta be done for this team to properly contend.
It's why it's being done, we don't have high picks, we have our capspace taken up so we have to acquire chips and trade them while they're hot.