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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: droopdog7 on November 03, 2012, 10:09:16 PM

Title: Terry needs to step up
Post by: droopdog7 on November 03, 2012, 10:09:16 PM
Just watched ray ray hit a game winning three.  There was some discussion of whether ray was better than lee (with many here picking lee).  Most assumedee plus terry much better than ray.

Well, lee is decent but he ain't close to ray.  And right now terry is pretty much garbage.  Ray meanwhile is doing what a hall of fame player does.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: Smokeeye123 on November 03, 2012, 11:34:47 PM
Just watched ray ray hit a game winning three.  There was some discussion of whether ray was better than lee (with many here picking lee).  Most assumedee plus terry much better than ray.

Well, lee is decent but he ain't close to ray.  And right now terry is pretty much garbage.  Ray meanwhile is doing what a hall of fame player does.

Last year at this time we were 0-3 and the sky was falling. We then proceeded to end up in a game 7 of the eastern conference finals.

Give it time.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: mr. dee on November 03, 2012, 11:38:39 PM
You know that shooters take a lot of time to get their groove. Look at Paul Pierce last season.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: Who on November 03, 2012, 11:45:56 PM
Terry needs more minutes. He has been a 30+ minute a night player his whole career. To be at his best, Jason Terry needs 28-32 minutes a game.

Doc needs to stop this four guards (Rondo, Terry, Lee, Barbosa) nonsense and play only three (Rondo, Terry, Lee) of them (with Bradley replacing Lee when he returns). Let his best players (Terry) get the amount of touches and shot attempts they need to play at their highest level.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: karimb on November 03, 2012, 11:54:32 PM
Terry needs more minutes. He has been a 30+ minute a night player his whole career. To be at his best, Jason Terry needs 28-32 minutes a game.

Doc needs to stop this four guards (Rondo, Terry, Lee, Barbosa) nonsense and play only three (Rondo, Terry, Lee) of them (with Bradley replacing Lee when he returns). Let his best players (Terry) get the amount of touches and shot attempts they need to play at their highest level.

agreed.

Terry is not playing enough minutes and not getting enough shots.

Ray played 28 min today and shot 10 threes. (hit 6 of them).  We need to get Terry some open shots and get him in his groove. 
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: crimson_stallion on November 04, 2012, 12:00:08 AM
Agreed.

Today was certainly a big step forward from the first two games though.  Not great by any means, but a definate improvement.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: xmuscularghandix on November 04, 2012, 01:09:39 AM
I feel like Rondo was doing a good job of letting other players handle the ball a bit in the preseason, now that we're into November he only hands it off to Pierce. Letting Jason Terry run a few pick and rolls as soon as he comes in will really help him find his shot right away.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: Marcus13 on November 05, 2012, 11:45:45 AM
I mean it was stupid of people to try to downplay replacing the greatest shooter ever with a career-bench player.

JET will get better with time, but he'll never meet those expectations people were putting on him in the off-season
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: nickagneta on November 05, 2012, 11:57:04 AM
I mean it was stupid of people to try to downplay replacing the greatest shooter ever with a career-bench player.

JET will get better with time, but he'll never meet those expectations people were putting on him in the off-season
Terry has started of 60% of the games he has played in this league. He is not a career bench player.

He is also a rhythm shooter that needs the freedom to create for himself to be most effective. I don't see him being given that freedom right now. Or the minutes he needs to be most effective.

Doc has to sort out the back court rotation and get it down to three main players getting big minutes and the others being bit players. Going to be even tougher to do once AB comes back.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: Celtics18 on November 05, 2012, 12:24:19 PM
I mean it was stupid of people to try to downplay replacing the greatest shooter ever with a career-bench player.

JET will get better with time, but he'll never meet those expectations people were putting on him in the off-season

I think he will.  Our expectations were only for him to be the player he has been his entire career: a guy who averages 17 points and 5 assists per 36 minutes, shooting 45% from the floor and 38% from long range, a guy who has been an absolute iron man throughout his NBA career, and a guy who was arguably the second best player on a championship squad a couple of years ago.

I think that from a talent standpoint, that there is no doubt that Jason Terry is our fourth or fifth best player.  I feel confident that he'll have some games soon where he plays up to his talent level, gets in a groove, and helps this team win some games.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: scaryjerry on November 05, 2012, 12:36:41 PM
It was laughable to think lee was better then ray...literally laughable. But we thought he would fit right into what Bradley gave us...he hasn't. Hasn't helped Terry has been awful
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: Celtics18 on November 05, 2012, 12:39:01 PM
It was laughable to think lee was better then ray...literally laughable. But we thought he would fit right into what Bradley gave us...he hasn't.

It's not really laughable.  He is better than Ray.  At least, he was last season, and he's two years younger. 

Three sub-par games do not make a season. 
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: scaryjerry on November 05, 2012, 12:41:24 PM
It was laughable to think lee was better then ray...literally laughable. But we thought he would fit right into what Bradley gave us...he hasn't.

It's not really laughable.  He is better than Ray.  At least, he was last season, and he's two years younger. 

Three sub-par games do not make a season.

Yeah because ray wouldn't have put up at least 20 ppg on that rockets team last year...give me a break....lee is an average player with no upside.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: scaryjerry on November 05, 2012, 12:45:10 PM
It was laughable to think lee was better then ray...literally laughable. But we thought he would fit right into what Bradley gave us...he hasn't.

It's not really laughable.  He is better than Ray.  At least, he was last season, and he's two years younger. 

Three sub-par games do not make a season.

But since you said 2years younger you must be talking about terry...I do think he could wind up being a better fit but ive never seen him look worse
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: Celtics18 on November 05, 2012, 12:46:12 PM
It was laughable to think lee was better then ray...literally laughable. But we thought he would fit right into what Bradley gave us...he hasn't.

It's not really laughable.  He is better than Ray.  At least, he was last season, and he's two years younger. 

Three sub-par games do not make a season.

Yeah because ray wouldn't have put up at least 20 ppg on that rockets team last year...give me a break....lee is an average player with no upside.

Oops.  I read your post too quickly and at first thought you were writing about Terry, not Lee. 

My post was mistakenly about the JET (although this is a thread about Jason Terry).

Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: hpantazo on November 05, 2012, 12:46:44 PM
It was laughable to think lee was better then ray...literally laughable. But we thought he would fit right into what Bradley gave us...he hasn't.

It's not really laughable.  He is better than Ray.  At least, he was last season, and he's two years younger. 

Three sub-par games do not make a season.

Agreed. At this stage in their careers, Terry is the better player, as well as the better fit for our team. Terry is a much better ball handler and can create his own shot. He killed the Heat in the finals 2 years ago. Ray's ball handling was awful the last 2 years and getting worse. He needs to be on a team like the heat where other guys can take all the defensive focus and he can sit in the corner and shoot open threes.

Everyone on our team has looked bad in the first 3 games, you can't judge them while they are learning the system and in total dissaray. Jet is a cold blooded killer in big games, he will come up huge for us this year.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: BballTim on November 05, 2012, 12:53:12 PM
I mean it was stupid of people to try to downplay replacing the greatest shooter ever with a career-bench player.

  We replaced Larry Bird with a career bench player?
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: hpantazo on November 05, 2012, 12:54:16 PM
I mean it was stupid of people to try to downplay replacing the greatest shooter ever with a career-bench player.

  We replaced Larry Bird with a career bench player?

LOL, TP Tim.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: Marcus13 on November 05, 2012, 02:36:46 PM
I mean it was stupid of people to try to downplay replacing the greatest shooter ever with a career-bench player.

  We replaced Larry Bird with a career bench player?

Not sure where Larry Bird fits into that conversation
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: hpantazo on November 05, 2012, 02:40:34 PM
I mean it was stupid of people to try to downplay replacing the greatest shooter ever with a career-bench player.

  We replaced Larry Bird with a career bench player?

Not sure where Larry Bird fits into that conversation

Are you implying that Larry Bird's name doesn't belong in the conversation when discussing "the greatest shooter ever"?  If so, I believe many people on here would disagree with that.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: nickagneta on November 05, 2012, 02:58:00 PM
I mean it was stupid of people to try to downplay replacing the greatest shooter ever with a career-bench player.

  We replaced Larry Bird with a career bench player?

Not sure where Larry Bird fits into that conversation
If Larry Bird's game revolved solely around hanging on the perimeter and shooting three pointers, he would have practiced that more often and easily had the stats of the greatest shooter ever up there with Ray Allen and others. Jerry West is another great shooter that doesn't get modern day credit because of the differences in the game.

Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: BballTim on November 05, 2012, 03:05:53 PM
I mean it was stupid of people to try to downplay replacing the greatest shooter ever with a career-bench player.

  We replaced Larry Bird with a career bench player?

Not sure where Larry Bird fits into that conversation

  You said greatest shooter ever.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on November 05, 2012, 03:12:38 PM
I can't stop saying this... you only remember the good days of Ray but had Ray given us ANYTHING in the Mia series we wouldn't even be talking about Ray on that team! The guy was HORRENDOUS, but we had no one else and he was Doc's Binky, b/c no matter how Ray played he was getting his 30 a night!
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: thirstyboots18 on November 05, 2012, 03:30:13 PM
I can't stop saying this... you only remember the good days of Ray but had Ray given us ANYTHING in the Mia series we wouldn't even be talking about Ray on that team! The guy was HORRENDOUS, but we had no one else and he was Doc's Binky, b/c no matter how Ray played he was getting his 30 a night!
If I remember correctly, AB couldn't play and Ray was playing on bone spurs!!!  He was not "horrendous"...he was injured.  There is a difference!  Ray played BECAUSE there was on one else, and he gave what he had. The way Ray and Doc are mentioned, as if they intentionally gave the series away, is an insult to both. The loss was NOT Ray's fault, and it wasn't Doc's fault.  It was the injuries.  The Celtics actually played above and beyond all possible expectations,  considering what they had to deal with.

Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: Brendan on November 05, 2012, 03:43:32 PM
Doc is both over playing Pierce and Rondo, and playing too many guys.

Pick 8 guys, go with that, determine 9th man night to night. 10th and on is for emergency and garbage time.

Once you see how that group is playing and they get a rhythm you can try some other lineups out.

Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: manl_lui on November 05, 2012, 03:50:48 PM
Terry is averaging 8 pts and 2 assists off the bench for about 22 minutes

what more do you want from him. Our bench has been scoring in the 20s this season. We haven't had much consistency off our bench in awhile. So chill out

Terry, Barbosa, and Green gave us 20-25 off the bench. That's not bad. Do you want all 3 of them to give us 15 pts each night?

Of course, we could still improve, but we got to be more patient. 8 new players, and only 3 games into the season. Defense and offense will come. No need to freak out. Terry will show up and Lee's defense will catch on.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on November 05, 2012, 03:56:29 PM
I can't stop saying this... you only remember the good days of Ray but had Ray given us ANYTHING in the Mia series we wouldn't even be talking about Ray on that team! The guy was HORRENDOUS, but we had no one else and he was Doc's Binky, b/c no matter how Ray played he was getting his 30 a night!
If I remember correctly, AB couldn't play and Ray was playing on bone spurs!!!  He was not "horrendous"...he was injured.  There is a difference!  Ray played BECAUSE there was on one else, and he gave what he had. The way Ray and Doc are mentioned, as if they intentionally gave the series away, is an insult to both. The loss was NOT Ray's fault, and it wasn't Doc's fault.  It was the injuries.  The Celtics actually played above and beyond all possible expectations,  considering what they had to deal with.

Doc played Ray the same amount when AB WAS playing! I never said they intentionally gave the series away, that's stupid! They are human, they make mistakes. Yes Ray was injured but you act like he just got injured in the playoffs, he played much better all season than he did in the playoffs... he had the same bone spurs throughout! Give me the injured Ray from the regular season and we win, he almost completely disappeared in the playoffs!
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: thirstyboots18 on November 05, 2012, 05:34:55 PM
I can't stop saying this... you only remember the good days of Ray but had Ray given us ANYTHING in the Mia series we wouldn't even be talking about Ray on that team! The guy was HORRENDOUS, but we had no one else and he was Doc's Binky, b/c no matter how Ray played he was getting his 30 a night!
If I remember correctly, AB couldn't play and Ray was playing on bone spurs!!!  He was not "horrendous"...he was injured.  There is a difference!  Ray played BECAUSE there was on one else, and he gave what he had. The way Ray and Doc are mentioned, as if they intentionally gave the series away, is an insult to both. The loss was NOT Ray's fault, and it wasn't Doc's fault.  It was the injuries.  The Celtics actually played above and beyond all possible expectations,  considering what they had to deal with.

Doc played Ray the same amount when AB WAS playing! I never said they intentionally gave the series away, that's stupid! They are human, they make mistakes. Yes Ray was injured but you act like he just got injured in the playoffs, he played much better all season than he did in the playoffs... he had the same bone spurs throughout! Give me the injured Ray from the regular season and we win, he almost completely disappeared in the playoffs!
OK...I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  Doc was not stupid to rely more on a veteran during the playoffs than an unproven young player.  When Doc would have had to rely on AB (as Ray's injury made it harder for him to contribute) AB was already out for the season.  I personally thought Doc handled it correctly.  In the playoffs you generally go with experience, and Doc had already upgraded AB to a starter roll.  Those bone spurs move around and sometimes are more debilitating than other times...Ray had no control over that.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on November 05, 2012, 05:40:58 PM
I can't stop saying this... you only remember the good days of Ray but had Ray given us ANYTHING in the Mia series we wouldn't even be talking about Ray on that team! The guy was HORRENDOUS, but we had no one else and he was Doc's Binky, b/c no matter how Ray played he was getting his 30 a night!
If I remember correctly, AB couldn't play and Ray was playing on bone spurs!!!  He was not "horrendous"...he was injured.  There is a difference!  Ray played BECAUSE there was on one else, and he gave what he had. The way Ray and Doc are mentioned, as if they intentionally gave the series away, is an insult to both. The loss was NOT Ray's fault, and it wasn't Doc's fault.  It was the injuries.  The Celtics actually played above and beyond all possible expectations,  considering what they had to deal with.

Doc played Ray the same amount when AB WAS playing! I never said they intentionally gave the series away, that's stupid! They are human, they make mistakes. Yes Ray was injured but you act like he just got injured in the playoffs, he played much better all season than he did in the playoffs... he had the same bone spurs throughout! Give me the injured Ray from the regular season and we win, he almost completely disappeared in the playoffs!
OK...I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  Doc was not stupid to rely more on a veteran during the playoffs than an unproven young player.  When Doc would have had to rely on AB (as Ray's injury made it harder for him to contribute) AB was already out for the season.  I personally thought Doc handled it correctly.  In the playoffs you generally go with experience, and Doc had already upgraded AB to a starter roll.  Those bone spurs move around and sometimes are more debilitating than other times...Ray had no control over that.

Doc doesn't trust his bench enough and that's my main problem with him. We are 3 games into the season and darko collins and wilcox are already riding the bench. If doc won't play guys at the very start of the season to see what they got then when the hell will he play them? He leans too much on pierce rondo and KG even when we have the players for him to NOT have to do that anymore.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 05, 2012, 06:03:38 PM
Problem is we go to pot every time KG sits . :(

The WHOLE team needs to play BETTER defense when KG is on the bench. ;)

Until Doc gets the other 14 players PLAYING defense regardless if KG is on the court or not ...Celtics are gonna have a ruff go of it.



 
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: nickagneta on November 05, 2012, 06:48:38 PM
I love the fact people criticize Doc for not trusting his bench enough(aka the bigs) then in the same sentence mention who the bench players are like they are some sort of set of All-Stars.

The bigs off the bench are Darko, Wilcox, Collins, Melo and either bass or Sully depending on who starts.

Darko sucks.
Wilcox is serviceable at best if he is healthy which isn't often.
Collins sucks.
Melo is a rookie who at the moment, sucks as a professional basketball player.
Bass is a good rotational player, probably an okay starter or above average bench player.
Sully is probably a little worse than Bass at this point.

Who exactly is there to trust off the bench who is a big?
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: thirstyboots18 on November 05, 2012, 07:27:43 PM
I love the fact people criticize Doc for not trusting his bench enough(aka the bigs) then in the same sentence mention who the bench players are like they are some sort of set of All-Stars.

The bigs off the bench are Darko, Wilcox, Collins, Melo and either bass or Sully depending on who starts.

Darko sucks.
Wilcox is serviceable at best if he is healthy which isn't often.
Collins sucks.
Melo is a rookie who at the moment, sucks as a professional basketball player.
Bass is a good rotational player, probably an okay starter or above average bench player.
Sully is probably a little worse than Bass at this point.

Who exactly is there to trust off the bench who is a big?
Nick is right.  Trust is earned.  In this case, because it is early in the season, it is earned in practice.  Doc  got us to a seventh game against the eventual champions last year with a cast of beat up hurting players who were playing way over their potential.   Doc is a master of getting players to buy into the "team" system.  Just because some fans don't buy into docs methods does not mean players don't, and the players say they would run through walls for him.
Title: Re: Terry needs to step up
Post by: nickagneta on November 05, 2012, 07:30:41 PM
I love the fact people criticize Doc for not trusting his bench enough(aka the bigs) then in the same sentence mention who the bench players are like they are some sort of set of All-Stars.

The bigs off the bench are Darko, Wilcox, Collins, Melo and either bass or Sully depending on who starts.

Darko sucks.
Wilcox is serviceable at best if he is healthy which isn't often.
Collins sucks.
Melo is a rookie who at the moment, sucks as a professional basketball player.
Bass is a good rotational player, probably an okay starter or above average bench player.
Sully is probably a little worse than Bass at this point.

Who exactly is there to trust off the bench who is a big?
Nick is right.  Trust is earned.  In this case, because it is early in the season, it is earned in practice.  Doc  got us to a seventh game against the eventual champions last year with a cast of beat up hurting players who were playing way over their potential.   Doc is a master of getting players to buy into the "team" system.  Just because some fans don't buy into docs methods does not mean players don't, and the players say they would run through walls for him.
TP. Better stated than what I said.