CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Ogaju on November 03, 2012, 02:41:49 PM
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We brought in a lot of new and exciting players, but there is no gain from having new tools if you do not know how to use them. We have a coaching problem people.
Garnett and Pierce are still featured as the nucleus of our team, but they are our oldest and slowest players. This negates all the speed we brought in. Our opponents are vastly younger and quicker than us, and it shows in the ease with which they score on us, and the fouls that they draw on our defense.
Doc gets the big bucks, and he has the players it is time to put the speed on the floor to run with Rondo, bring Pierce off the bench for Green at the three. I bet you things will change when you have Green Garnett and Bass starting with Rondo and Lee in the back court. Green light the rebounder to run the fast break, Rondo must learn to get out on the break and not wait for the ball to be turned over to him to run the break. Can he just go back and review tapes of the showtime Lakers. Worthy and Scott could run breaks with Magic Kareem and Rambis filling the lanes. Good thing about Magic is when he got the ball he could finish or dish within the context of a break that was started by someone else. If we are going to run the ball Pierce must sit.
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Yawn.
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Over reacting much??
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after 2 games doggie? lol
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I think we could be looking at a similar repeat of last season. We started off slowly, some of us were panicking (even myself at times)..some of us jumped off the cliff.
That was at 15 and 17 prior to the All-Star break.
After the All-Star break, BOS stomped just about everyone, and took the NBA champs MIA to 7 games without Wilcox, Green or Avery.
While I don't think that THIS season will be an exact copy of last, it could have some similarities.
But I'm not worried, and I trust Doc Divers. He is the man.
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We brought in a lot of new and exciting players, but there is no gain from having new tools if you do not know how to use them. We have a coaching problem people.
Garnett and Pierce are still featured as the nucleus of our team, but they are our oldest and slowest players. This negates all the speed we brought in. Our opponents are vastly younger and quicker than us, and it shows in the ease with which they score on us, and the fouls that they draw on our defense.
Doc gets the big bucks, and he has the players it is time to put the speed on the floor to run with Rondo, bring Pierce off the bench for Green at the three. I bet you things will change when you have Green Garnett and Bass starting with Rondo and Lee in the back court. Green light the rebounder to run the fast break, Rondo must learn to get out on the break and not wait for the ball to be turned over to him to run the break. Can he just go back and review tapes of the showtime Lakers. Worthy and Scott could run breaks with Magic Kareem and Rambis filling the lanes. Good thing about Magic is when he got the ball he could finish or dish within the context of a break that was started by someone else. If we are going to run the ball Pierce must sit.
This team will fall prey to the half court game again. We have a couple starters that can't run consistently and bench players that don't know how or where to run. The Celts will meld after 20 or so games and make the Playoffs around the 4th spot and retire in the 2nd round. They shot their wad against the Heat and lost. Very demoralizing to them. After losing Allen we became the Big 2 with little back up. Since the Auerbach days Management has not kept up with skills even close to LA's. Now some of that Braintrust is in Miami. Look for them to rule for 4 years or so. We're always shopping garage sales.
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Also - if us BOS fans are panicking, imagine what LA's fanbase is doing right now, lol.
They are 0-3, Kobe has already stated "Now is the time to panic", Steve Nash is already injured, and while they are imposing team they certainly do have their weaknesses - age being one of them.
At least BOS is younger and healthier.
I even saw a Laker fan at the grocery store last night, and he laughed and told me he was switching to the Heat.
Figures. ;D
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You forget the new accepted process of building a high end second tier team.
1) Reload
2) Rebuild
3) Compete
Danny Ainge did an outstanding job in step one. Doc is going through step two with his players with the new players. This will mean losses to teams with less talent but have played together for a time. Tonight could be another example. So patience is needed amongst the local bloggers.
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We brought in a lot of new and exciting players, but there is no gain from having new tools if you do not know how to use them. We have a coaching problem people.
Garnett and Pierce are still featured as the nucleus of our team, but they are our oldest and slowest players. This negates all the speed we brought in. Our opponents are vastly younger and quicker than us, and it shows in the ease with which they score on us, and the fouls that they draw on our defense.
Doc gets the big bucks, and he has the players it is time to put the speed on the floor to run with Rondo, bring Pierce off the bench for Green at the three. I bet you things will change when you have Green Garnett and Bass starting with Rondo and Lee in the back court. Green light the rebounder to run the fast break, Rondo must learn to get out on the break and not wait for the ball to be turned over to him to run the break. Can he just go back and review tapes of the showtime Lakers. Worthy and Scott could run breaks with Magic Kareem and Rambis filling the lanes. Good thing about Magic is when he got the ball he could finish or dish within the context of a break that was started by someone else. If we are going to run the ball Pierce must sit.
This team will fall prey to the half court game again. We have a couple starters that can't run consistently and bench players that don't know how or where to run. The Celts will meld after 20 or so games and make the Playoffs around the 4th spot and retire in the 2nd round. They shot their wad against the Heat and lost. Very demoralizing to them. After losing Allen we became the Big 2 with little back up. Since the Auerbach days Management has not kept up with skills even close to LA's. Now some of that Braintrust is in Miami. Look for them to rule for 4 years or so. We're always shopping garage sales.
Wow - you really believe this team is only good for the 2nd round?
And personally I think that Danny Ainge had done a good job - even great at times.
He got us Ray and KG.
He got us the team we are looking at right now.
And while the game 7 loss to MIA last season was demoralizing, I don't think it's "broken" this team.
Some teams, players, don't recover from those types of losses. But KG, Paul, Rondo, Bass and Jet are made of sterner stuff.
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You'd think after last year and 2010 when half the board acted the part of Chicken Little when the team played poorly only to find the C's to be one of the most dominant teams in the league that people would stop the knee-jerk reactions to losses.
Guess not.
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You'd think after last year and 2010 when half the board acted the part of Chicken Little when the team played poorly only to find the C's to be one of the most dominant teams in the league that people would stop the knee-jerk reactions to losses.
Guess not.
Haha yeah I don't get it. I was saying the same thing last year telling people to look back to 210 but people will always find some reasoning or ex cuse for how its different.
Bottom line is we have way too much talent to not be good. We went pretty far last year and no matter how you slice it, we significantly improved our team.
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The sky is falling! Last year was fool's gold. We limped into the playoffs with the 6th seed, beat Atlanta without HOrford... then toppled a 8th seed who had no business being in the 2nd round. Our fourth best player is comin off the bench in Miami and we still have no big men next to KG. WE'RE DOOMED!!
Lol...
Nah. This team is what it is. I figured we'd play .500 ball until February. Hopefully we can make an impact trade using our assets at the deadline.
The difference between this year and last year ... is that this year we have some interesting new storylines to follow. I'm excited to see how Sully plays. I'm excited to see how Jeff Green plays. I'm excited to watch what Terry and Barbosa do off the bench... excited to see how Lee fills Ray's shoes. I'm excited to see Bradley come back and be a little defensive specialist pest off the bench. It's going to be a fun season. Enjoy it and don't worry about the losses piling up. Half of our players can't be traded until either December 15th or January 15th. Just have patience and enjoy the ride.
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o my god!, its the end of the world. The Celtics will lose in the 1st round and Laker won't even make playoffs :(
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Laker won't even make playoffs
Oh Man I'd LOOOOOOVE THAT if it happened, lol
A Dream Come true.
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Look guys we lost to the Heat last season. Does it really matter whether it was game 7 or game 4. Celtics should not be about Moral victories, no proud organization should live on moral victories.
Doc Rivers gets too too many passes on this board. At some point we have to look at production on the court. One championship is not enough to show for the big3 period. It is not about the two losses we have suffered so far, it is how we have lost the games. The defense is non-existent, and the offense was subpar last night. At some point the coaching has to be questioned.
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Blow it up!
;)
I wish the team played well every night, but we've seen this team struggle enough at times to know that almost always, they eventually right the ship.
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Look guys we lost to the Heat last season. Does it really matter whether it was game 7 or game 4. Celtics should not be about Moral victories, no proud organization should live on moral victories.
Doc Rivers gets too too many passes on this board. At some point we have to look at production on the court. One championship is not enough to show for the big3 period. It is not about the two losses we have suffered so far, it is how we have lost the games. The defense is non-existent, and the offense was subpar last night. At some point the coaching has to be questioned.
It's not about this board. It's about the entire NBA if you mean the respect he's getting as a coach.
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Look guys we lost to the Heat last season. Does it really matter whether it was game 7 or game 4. Celtics should not be about Moral victories, no proud organization should live on moral victories.
Doc Rivers gets too too many passes on this board. At some point we have to look at production on the court. One championship is not enough to show for the big3 period. It is not about the two losses we have suffered so far, it is how we have lost the games. The defense is non-existent, and the offense was subpar last night. At some point the coaching has to be questioned.
nobody said nuthin bout moral victories tho lol we're all dissapointed we 0-2 at da moment but its 80 games left, chill
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I wonder what the OP would say once the team start to destroy other teams.
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I will be happy as a kid in a candy store
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I think that we have only seen a small bit of what this team's potential is. The pre season game with the nets. That game seemed like closest to the goal. Tough def and a variety of different looks on O that make it difficult for teams to match up and stop us from getting easy buckets.
We just need to see how things go. This year ISN'T last year. We can't count on the team just magically clicking after the all star break. Plus that is too late to turn it on in a full 82 game season. I expect Doc will figure out his rotations pretty soon.
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I love revisionist history.
Should we have more than 1 banner to show for the KG/Paul/Ray era? Probably. Is it Doc's fault? Absolutely not.
07-08: Banner 17. Good times all around.
08-09: The quest for for Banner 18 gets off to a strong start. KG's knee has other ideas though, so quest ends prematurely.
09-10: We somehow get back to the Finals with a visibly less than 100% KG and an out of shape Rasheed Wallace, but Perk going down in game 6 takes the air out of our sails and Pau dominates the glass down the stretch.
10-11: A rejuvenated Shaq has us lookong like the team to beat, but he goes down and we lose our presence in the middle. And of course, "The Trade."
11-12: Jeff Green doesn't even get to start the season due to an aortic aneurysm. Chris Wilcox also goes down with a heart issue. Still, we push a talented Heat team to 7 games.
Looking at the FACTS, it would seem we've gotten dealt a few bad hands with injuries. Something I also notice, we still manage to fight and stay in the championship picture. 2 games into a new season, I'm certainly not throwing in the towel or calling for Doc's head. Honestly, we're lucky to have him. There's a reason why this team fights through adversity, why KG says he won't play for anyone else, a reason why he's consistently called one of the best coaches in the game by players and opposing coaches alike.
Seriously, if you don't think he's doing a good job, go do better.
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I love revisionist history.
Should we have more than 1 banner to show for the KG/Paul/Ray era? Probably. Is it Doc's fault? Absolutely not.
07-08: Banner 17. Good times all around.
08-09: The quest for for Banner 18 gets off to a strong start. KG's knee has other ideas though, so quest ends prematurely.
09-10: We somehow get back to the Finals with a visibly less than 100% KG and an out of shape Rasheed Wallace, but Perk going down in game 6 takes the air out of our sails and Pau dominates the glass down the stretch.
10-11: A rejuvenated Shaq has us lookong like the team to beat, but he goes down and we lose our presence in the middle. And of course, "The Trade."
11-12: Jeff Green doesn't even get to start the season due to an aortic aneurysm. Chris Wilcox also goes down with a heart issue. Still, we push a talented Heat team to 7 games.
Looking at the FACTS, it would seem we've gotten dealt a few bad hands with injuries. Something I also notice, we still manage to fight and stay in the championship picture. 2 games into a new season, I'm certainly not throwing in the towel or calling for Doc's head. Honestly, we're lucky to have him. There's a reason why this team fights through adversity, why KG says he won't play for anyone else, a reason why he's consistently called one of the best coaches in the game by players and opposing coaches alike.
Seriously, if you don't think he's doing a good job, go do better.
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR77meEpyAwLOwE8f_JgcGrwsFUqdszPOPAc_-8I9tnFy6rSy9RYA)
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Laker won't even make playoffs
Oh Man I'd LOOOOOOVE THAT if it happened, lol
A Dream Come true.
Mike brown's head would be on a pike.
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I agree this is overreacting but I also think all the morale victory almost beating the heat stuff is just as comical....we got lucky last season playing the hawks and 76ers in the playoffs and chris bosh missing the first 5 games in the heat series didnt hurt either
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By site standards, this thread is 2 games late in the season.
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You know we are all going to be here for another title run in the spring.
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I agree this is overreacting but I also think all the morale victory almost beating the heat stuff is just as comical....we got lucky last season playing the hawks and 76ers in the playoffs and chris bosh missing the first 5 games in the heat series didnt hurt either
who would we have faced that would be harder than the hawks and 76ers? A rose-less bulls? Nah.. chris bosh only missed the first 4 games, and Bradley missed most of the heat series. Against the heat, when bradley plays significant minutes we almost never lost to them.
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Three games in and it's over for you, at least your dedicated fan! JK
We have not played well. We have no where to go but up. The talent is there just have to make it mesh.
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KG's knee has other ideas though
Wasn't my greatest idea. In fact, I lament nothing else, other than not having the bone spurs removed before the 08-09 season.
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Seriously, if you don't think he's doing a good job, go do better.
Even a good coach gets frustrating when you see the same bad habits game after game and season after season. We've already seen one Doc's classic moves where a player will be great in a game (Barbosa) and then find himself virtually glued to the bench in the games immediately following that. I mean, you can't say Barbosa has to sit because other people are playing so great.
And I will say that Boston has no chance to win a title if Brandon Bass, Jeff Green or Sully are going to be our only choices for backup center.
Mike
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If there's one words that describes the Celtics over the past 5 years, it's been unpredictable. It always has been. They always surprise me whether they're doing well or not doing so well.
-Did you see it coming when the Celtics were headed into tight seven game series with Atlanta and Cleveland before they won it all?
-Did you see it coming when the Celtics were going to make another long title run in 2010 when they had been playing .500 ball for half a season?
-Did you see it coming when the Celtics were going to give the Heat a tight seven game series after they struggled to beat Atlanta and Philadelphia last year?
The answer is no. No one saw those events coming, but the Celtics never cease to raise eyebrows. It's a long season, and there's plenty of basketball left to be played. This team may have some growing pains this year, but giving up on them this early, that's kinda pathetic.
You don't like what you see after just three games, then don't watch. Simple as that.
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If there's one words that describes the Celtics over the past 5 years, it's been unpredictable. It always has been. They always surprise me whether they're doing well or not doing so well.
-Did you see it coming when the Celtics were headed into tight seven game series with Atlanta and Cleveland before they won it all?
-Did you see it coming when the Celtics were going to make another long title run in 2010 when they had been playing .500 ball for half a season?
-Did you see it coming when the Celtics were going to give the Heat a tight seven game series after they struggled to beat Atlanta and Philadelphia last year?
The answer is no. No one saw those events coming, but the Celtics never cease to raise eyebrows. It's a long season, and there's plenty of basketball left to be played. This team may have some growing pains this year, but giving up on them this early, that's kinda pathetic.
You don't like what you see after just three games, then don't watch. Simple as that.
Why so angry? Different strokes for different folks. The only person in this world who is always right is me. ;)
I actually did have pretty strong feelings we could make it to the Finals in '10, and take Miami to the brink last year. Really, we blew 3-2 leads in both series. I say we underachieved.
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I think the regular season will have it's up and downs, as it has for the past few years (ever since '07-08), but if healthy come playoff time, I think we will be a force to be dealt with. And we just happened to have started the year on a down note.....
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I love revisionist history.
Should we have more than 1 banner to show for the KG/Paul/Ray era? Probably. Is it Doc's fault? Absolutely not.
07-08: Banner 17. Good times all around.
08-09: The quest for for Banner 18 gets off to a strong start. KG's knee has other ideas though, so quest ends prematurely.
09-10: We somehow get back to the Finals with a visibly less than 100% KG and an out of shape Rasheed Wallace, but Perk going down in game 6 takes the air out of our sails and Pau dominates the glass down the stretch.
10-11: A rejuvenated Shaq has us lookong like the team to beat, but he goes down and we lose our presence in the middle. And of course, "The Trade."
11-12: Jeff Green doesn't even get to start the season due to an aortic aneurysm. Chris Wilcox also goes down with a heart issue. Still, we push a talented Heat team to 7 games.
Looking at the FACTS, it would seem we've gotten dealt a few bad hands with injuries. Something I also notice, we still manage to fight and stay in the championship picture. 2 games into a new season, I'm certainly not throwing in the towel or calling for Doc's head. Honestly, we're lucky to have him. There's a reason why this team fights through adversity, why KG says he won't play for anyone else, a reason why he's consistently called one of the best coaches in the game by players and opposing coaches alike.
Seriously, if you don't think he's doing a good job, go do better.
TP.
But you forgot one: Dwayne Wade's breaking of Rondo's arm in that second round series in 2011.
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Look guys we lost to the Heat last season. Does it really matter whether it was game 7 or game 4. Celtics should not be about Moral victories, no proud organization should live on moral victories.
Doc Rivers gets too too many passes on this board. At some point we have to look at production on the court. One championship is not enough to show for the big3 period. It is not about the two losses we have suffered so far, it is how we have lost the games. The defense is non-existent, and the offense was subpar last night. At some point the coaching has to be questioned.
Um hello, we held the Wizards below 90 and they did not score in the last 2 minutes of regulation.
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Look guys we lost to the Heat last season. Does it really matter whether it was game 7 or game 4. Celtics should not be about Moral victories, no proud organization should live on moral victories.
Doc Rivers gets too too many passes on this board. At some point we have to look at production on the court. One championship is not enough to show for the big3 period. It is not about the two losses we have suffered so far, it is how we have lost the games. The defense is non-existent, and the offense was subpar last night. At some point the coaching has to be questioned.
Um hello, we held the Wizards below 90 and they did not score in the last 2 minutes of regulation.
Oops, I did not realize the original post was posted before the game tonight. Hope you think otherwise now ;D
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They just grinds out a win against WAS.
While It was not the kind of win everyone is expecting, it will help with the teams psyche and will be more confident. Don't give up now, they're going to stack up some wins from now on.
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We brought in a lot of new and exciting players, but there is no gain from having new tools if you do not know how to use them. We have a coaching problem people.
In some ways I agree...
Garnett and Pierce are still featured as the nucleus of our team, but they are our oldest and slowest players. This negates all the speed we brought in. Our opponents are vastly younger and quicker than us, and it shows in the ease with which they score on us, and the fouls that they draw on our defense.
Doc gets the big bucks, and he has the players it is time to put the speed on the floor to run with Rondo, bring Pierce off the bench for Green at the three.
But this is not one of them.
KG and Pierce are playing big minutes, and guess why? Because they are two of the top 3 players on this team (Rondo of course being the other).
In the first three games Pierce is averaging 20 points, 6 rebounds and 3 assists.
Garnett is averaging 13 points, 8 rebounds and 1.6 blocks.
Who do we have right now putting up better numbers per minutes than those guys? Nobody.
Also Pierce isn't a bad player on the break. He generally does run and when he does he's equally as capable of attacking the basket or spotting up for three.
Green will be a good player for us, I'm sure of it...but he is not better than Pierce by any means.
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EDIT: nevermind
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I hate to say it... cause KG is my favorite player....but we are NOT gonna win often if KG is sitting on the bench resting.
Face it ...when KG is sitting ...we suck. 90% of the time.
For the Celtics to win consistant , KG is our Kobe/LBJ , he needs to be on the floor 35-40 minutes a game for the Celtics to have a chance.
The Celtics are NOT the Spurs , saving KG (for what ) there isn't alot more years left.
I say put the pedal to the medal , and PLAY KG so the Celtics can be winners.
He is our Derby Horse and we need to let him work . Play the minutes we need to be competitive.
I said it ...now shoot me.. ;D
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All the whiners should just throw their computers out of the window and check in when the season is over. Jeeez.
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I agree this is overreacting but I also think all the morale victory almost beating the heat stuff is just as comical....we got lucky last season playing the hawks and 76ers in the playoffs and chris bosh missing the first 5 games in the heat series didnt hurt either
who would we have faced that would be harder than the hawks and 76ers? A rose-less bulls? Nah.. chris bosh only missed the first 4 games, and Bradley missed most of the heat series. Against the heat, when bradley plays significant minutes we almost never lost to them.
Mmm no if rose doesnt get hurt we pretty much lose in the second round is my point, things lined up pretty well for us.
Chris Bosh came back off the bench in game 5 i believe? once he got his legs under him KG was a non factor and we didnt win another game..hate to say it.
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nice win in Washington last night, but the team needs an identity. Are we going to run and gun with the kids or still be the grinding half court team with offense going through KG and PP.
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Laker won't even make playoffs
Oh Man I'd LOOOOOOVE THAT if it happened, lol
A Dream Come true.
Mike brown's head would be on a pike.
I predict Mike Brown will be fired before the All-Star break.
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Laker won't even make playoffs
Oh Man I'd LOOOOOOVE THAT if it happened, lol
A Dream Come true.
Mike brown's head would be on a pike.
I predict Mike Brown will be fired before the All-Star break.
Never understood why they didn't stay with the triangle offense and turn the team over to Brian Shaw. Mike Brown is a fool for trying the Princeton offense knowing Kobe will blow it up because he has to get his shots off and have the ball in his hands.
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Seriously, what is it with people and overreacting?
The following teams have a better record than the Miami Heat at this point in time: Orlando, Milwaukee, New York, and San Antonio. How sustainable do you think this is? Only New York and San Antonio have even a chance of keeping up, but in the long run Miami is better than both. Orlando and Milwaukee probably won't make the playoffs.
Portland, Golden State, Clippers, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Chicago, and Indiana all have the same record as the Heat. Again, are we annointing the Warriors as the class of the West? No? Then it isn't time to be concerned about the Cs yet.
Honestly, I know this is just going to fall on deaf ears, because all people around here ever seem to do is overreact based on small sample sizes, but I figured I might as well point it out.
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People freak out at things they don't understand and I defy anyone to explain the poor performances this Celtic team has turned in over the past 3 years. To come out shaky against the Heat? Okay. To stink the joint out against the Bucks? And then to basically win just one out of four quarters against a bad Wizards team?
You play with fire long enough, you get burned. This team has been juggling bonfires for the last three years when it comes to consistent effort and execution on court.
Mike
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perhaps this thread cab be joined with the yes or no Doc thread...
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I agree this is overreacting but I also think all the morale victory almost beating the heat stuff is just as comical....we got lucky last season playing the hawks and 76ers in the playoffs and chris bosh missing the first 5 games in the heat series didnt hurt either
How is the premise of calling beating the Hawks and Sixers "luck" any more objective than someone lauding that we took the Heat to 7 but still lost? You just sound like a glass half-empty guy. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you can't try to have it both ways and then call the glass half-full guy "comical".
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Things will look up for this team once Bradley comes back but i really think Doc needs to shorten the rotation when that happens.
Something like...
Rondo (36) Terry ( 8 ) Bradley (4)
Bradley (22) Terry (16) Lee (10)
Pierce (33) Green (15)
Bass (28) Green (10) Wilcox (10)
Garnett (30) Martin (13) Wilcox (5)
I expect the Celtics to probably cut Joseph or Collins (probably Collins) and sign a servicable defensive big like Kenyon Martin. They really need it. Courtney Lee hardly deserves to be in the rotation but whatever. I also like Wilcox over Sullinger.
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BYE! Don't let the door hit your rear when your leaving....
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I've seen enough, over the last two years, to know I loathe Bass's defensive game. When he comes in, the layup/dunkfest begins.
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I've seen enough, over the last two years, to know I loathe Bass's defensive game. When he comes in, the layup/dunkfest begins.
He is a chronic over-hedger.
When he hedges on help D he ends up about 4 feet outside the 3 point line while his man is inside the key.
The only guy I've seen who is worse is Ryan Hollins.