CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: LarBrd33 on November 02, 2012, 02:38:27 AM
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So literally yesterday I was browsing some salary cap info. I was clinging to some pipe dream that Dwight Howard could bail on the Lakers after this season. Him being in LA really depresses me. It would be a glorious thing to see him leave them empty handed. He's an unrestricted free agent after this season... it's not entirely unthinkable. But then I had to see what teams actually had cap space and which teams would be a realistic destination. Brooklyn is totally out of the question... but the Mavericks seem like a team that actually has the cap space to do it ... and a rare destination I could see Dwight bailing on the Lakers for (because of Cuban).
I then remembered that Chris Paul had only signed a short extension with the Clippers. I double-checked and yes... he's an unrestricted free agent this summer as well. Why isn't this a bigger deal? Is it simply because Dwight and CP3 seem so happy in their Los Angeles digs?
Then today I see this article: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/224272/Sources_Howard_Paul_Briefly_Planned_On_Joining_Forces_With_Mavericks
Dwight Howard and Chris Paul tried to play on the same team when they were on the Orlando Magic and New Orleans Hornets, but neither wanted to go to their former respective teams.
"We were trying to play together, but it didn't work out," Howard told Yahoo! Sports.
Paul and Howard began talking about playing together in 2009.
Howard wanted Paul to join him with the Magic.
"What will you be giving up?" asked Paul, according to a source.
Paul's preference was for Howard to join him with the Hornets.
"I tried to get him to come to New Orleans," Paul told Yahoo! Sports. "It was back and forth, here and there."
Sources close to both players say that Paul and Howard eventually decided that the Dallas Mavericks would be the ideal team to play for. The Mavericks pursued trades for both players, but didn't have enough pieces to make a deal work.
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Howard and Paul are both strongly leaning toward re-signing with the Lakers and Clippers, respectively.
But the Mavericks and Hawks are both expected to have enough cap space to sign both Howard and Paul.
It's totally unthinkable, right? What's the odds?
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I don't really care where Paul goes, but I agree with you, it'd be sweet to see Dwight leave LA.
If they both joined Dallas, that'd be very interesting. Nowitzki is just the type of PF Howard needs, and Paul is a huge upgrade over Collison. If they can also resign Shawn Marion in this situation, the Mavs are a contender for the future.
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None
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I want Dwight to stay in LA. It's a guarantee they're not going anywhere, he's so easy to deal with.
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Hawks seem more likely to me.
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Neither one is going to give up the money that staying with their current team would entitle them too is my guess.
So what a 2% chance? Though if one does bolt LA I do think the other is likely to go as well.
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Hawks seem more likely to me.
This is the number one reason I think the Hawks are not going to take on any salary in a trade for Smith this season...and they may even keep Smith (who is friends with Howard), in the hopes it will attract Howard (they can use Horford as part of a sign and trade).
The reason Atlanta worked so hard to clear the books was to make a run at Howard and/or Paul, and that run is not over.
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Hawks seem more likely to me.
This is the number one reason I think the Hawks are not going to take on any salary in a trade for Smith this season...and they may even keep Smith (who is friends with Howard), in the hopes it will attract Howard (they can use Horford as part of a sign and trade).
The reason Atlanta worked so hard to clear the books was to make a run at Howard and/or Paul, and that run is not over.
I thought you can't do sign and trades if you're over the tax line iirc. Or is that only a restriction on the team receiving the player?
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Hawks seem more likely to me.
This is the number one reason I think the Hawks are not going to take on any salary in a trade for Smith this season...and they may even keep Smith (who is friends with Howard), in the hopes it will attract Howard (they can use Horford as part of a sign and trade).
The reason Atlanta worked so hard to clear the books was to make a run at Howard and/or Paul, and that run is not over.
I thought you can't do sign and trades if you're over the tax line iirc. Or is that only a restriction on the team receiving the player?
Only the team recieving the player.
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I want Dwight to stay in LA. It's a guarantee they're not going anywhere, he's so easy to deal with.
Probably true, but the thought of him leaving and the Lakers having a core in their mid-30s would be pretty cool.
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I want Dwight to stay in LA. It's a guarantee they're not going anywhere, he's so easy to deal with.
Probably true, but the thought of him leaving and the Lakers having a core in their mid-30s would be pretty cool.
It's so much more fun to try to build around Howard as a core player. Look at how well it worked in Orlando :-D
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I want Dwight to stay in LA. It's a guarantee they're not going anywhere, he's so easy to deal with.
Probably true, but the thought of him leaving and the Lakers having a core in their mid-30s would be pretty cool.
It's so much more fun to try to build around Howard as a core player. Look at how well it worked in Orlando :-D
Building around Pierce was a bust. Building around KG and Ray Allen was a bust. It was only when they were old and brought together that they won anything.
At least Howard has already led a team to a finals appearance.
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I want Dwight to stay in LA. It's a guarantee they're not going anywhere, he's so easy to deal with.
Probably true, but the thought of him leaving and the Lakers having a core in their mid-30s would be pretty cool.
It's so much more fun to try to build around Howard as a core player. Look at how well it worked in Orlando :-D
Building around Pierce was a bust. Building around KG and Ray Allen was a bust. It was only when they were old and brought together that they won anything.
At least Howard has already led a team to a finals appearance.
Only because KG was hurt.
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I want Dwight to stay in LA. It's a guarantee they're not going anywhere, he's so easy to deal with.
Probably true, but the thought of him leaving and the Lakers having a core in their mid-30s would be pretty cool.
It's so much more fun to try to build around Howard as a core player. Look at how well it worked in Orlando :-D
Building around Pierce was a bust. Building around KG and Ray Allen was a bust. It was only when they were old and brought together that they won anything.
At least Howard has already led a team to a finals appearance.
I don't count second places, and I doubt folks in LA do either.
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So literally yesterday I was browsing some salary cap info. I was clinging to some pipe dream that Dwight Howard could bail on the Lakers after this season. Him being in LA really depresses me. It would be a glorious thing to see him leave them empty handed. He's an unrestricted free agent after this season... it's not entirely unthinkable. But then I had to see what teams actually had cap space and which teams would be a realistic destination. Brooklyn is totally out of the question... but the Mavericks seem like a team that actually has the cap space to do it ... and a rare destination I could see Dwight bailing on the Lakers for (because of Cuban).
I then remembered that Chris Paul had only signed a short extension with the Clippers. I double-checked and yes... he's an unrestricted free agent this summer as well. Why isn't this a bigger deal? Is it simply because Dwight and CP3 seem so happy in their Los Angeles digs?
Then today I see this article: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/224272/Sources_Howard_Paul_Briefly_Planned_On_Joining_Forces_With_Mavericks
Dwight Howard and Chris Paul tried to play on the same team when they were on the Orlando Magic and New Orleans Hornets, but neither wanted to go to their former respective teams.
"We were trying to play together, but it didn't work out," Howard told Yahoo! Sports.
Paul and Howard began talking about playing together in 2009.
Howard wanted Paul to join him with the Magic.
"What will you be giving up?" asked Paul, according to a source.
Paul's preference was for Howard to join him with the Hornets.
"I tried to get him to come to New Orleans," Paul told Yahoo! Sports. "It was back and forth, here and there."
Sources close to both players say that Paul and Howard eventually decided that the Dallas Mavericks would be the ideal team to play for. The Mavericks pursued trades for both players, but didn't have enough pieces to make a deal work.
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Howard and Paul are both strongly leaning toward re-signing with the Lakers and Clippers, respectively.
But the Mavericks and Hawks are both expected to have enough cap space to sign both Howard and Paul.
It's totally unthinkable, right? What's the odds?
About the same as Bron and Bosh joining Wade in Miami. So who knows.. Stranger things have happened recently. Seems like nothing will stop guys from joining up if it means they increase their chance to win.
But I think both LA teams would have to really disappoint this year while simultaneously having locker room issues. Both of these guys are on "contenders", are in LA, and would have to sacrifice some serious cash to leave.
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I want Dwight to stay in LA. It's a guarantee they're not going anywhere, he's so easy to deal with.
Probably true, but the thought of him leaving and the Lakers having a core in their mid-30s would be pretty cool.
It's so much more fun to try to build around Howard as a core player. Look at how well it worked in Orlando :-D
Building around Pierce was a bust. Building around KG and Ray Allen was a bust. It was only when they were old and brought together that they won anything.
At least Howard has already led a team to a finals appearance.
I don't count second places, and I doubt folks in LA do either.
Well the folks in LA count titles won by the folks in Minny, so god knows whether or not they count second place finishes
;)
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
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I hope it works out like that. If Boston isn't the team winning titles, I have no problem with Dallas hoisting the trophy.
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I think its more likely they go to Atlanta. Howard is originally from Atlanta, and their good buddy Josh Smith is also in Atlanta to help lure them there.
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I think its more likely they go to Atlanta. Howard is originally from Atlanta, and their good buddy Josh Smith is also in Atlanta to help lure them there.
Don't see CP3 going to Dallas. Could see Dallas signing Howard. He will still have Dirk who beside Howard would be free to be his lethal self like when beside Chandler. They still have the cap room to acquire another guy and possibly keep Mayo whose cap hold should be small.
I think Howard will strongly consider leaving LA. I think the whole idea of copying Shaq and basically being Shaq Jr. or lil Shaq really bothers him
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.
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Why would cp3 quit on the clippers to play with Dwight Howard.....he wouldn't have too if he was as good as everyone thinks. If they cant win with the teams they're on now there's little guarantee they'd win together but they sure do deserve one another!
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Why would cp3 quit on the clippers to play with Dwight Howard.....he wouldn't have too if he was as good as everyone thinks. If they cant win with the teams they're on now there's little guarantee they'd win together but they sure do deserve one another!
Donald Sterling vs Mark Cuban. Worst owner in sports to probably the best.
It's far fetched... but I don't think it's impossible. They have thought about it before: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/224272/Sources_Howard_Paul_Briefly_Planned_On_Joining_Forces_With_Mavericks
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I don't think anyone is going out of their way to play with DH. IF they were, they'd all be in Orlando right now.
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I don't think anyone is going out of their way to play with DH. IF they were, they'd all be in Orlando right now.
You make a great point. Dude is really killin his image. I hope he never wins a title. Its too bad because I really wanna like the guy.
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And I also had my prediction last year of Howard and Williams joining forces with Dallas. That didnt work out, so I could totally see Paul and Howard teaming up in Dallas. Even if Paul is in a great situation with the Clip show.
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don't know the possibilities of that happening, but would love it
CP3 leaving Blake, and LA
Dwight leave Kobe, Lakers and LA
the city of LA will lose 2 superstars...loving it
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Dallas has to find a taker for Marion and his $9m salary next season to be in position to add two max FAs without any S and Ts.
Dirk, CP3, D Ho, Mayo, with Jae Crowder and Dante Cunningham plus whatever ring chasers they can sign on the cheap, would be a powerhouse. Veterans will be falling over each other to play there for Cuban for the minimum. (The Nets put a solid bench together for $5.5m this year)
The best shooting PF of all time next to Dirk? The second best alley oop PG and best pick and roll PG paired with D HO? Even the couple of other pieces fit. Mayo would thrive on that team, (assuming he exercises his one year $4m option), and Crowder is the perfect SF if they can't find a cheapie vet, since he's defensive oriented and gritty.
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.
I really strongly disagree. Dirk is a better leader and scorer than anyone on the Clips, Dwight is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on the clips. I guess you could argue Blake is better than Dirk, but Dirk has something Blake doesn't, and that's the ability to score at will, from anywhere. Dwight is already better than Blake.
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.
I really strongly disagree. Dirk is a better leader and scorer than anyone on the Clips, Dwight is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on the clips. I guess you could argue Blake is better than Dirk, but Dirk has something Blake doesn't, and that's the ability to score at will, from anywhere. Dwight is already better than Blake.
Dirk will be 35 before next season starts. I don't think he has too many "score at will" years left.
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adidas is paying each 9 figures to be in LA
so no.
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don't know the possibilities of that happening, but would love it
CP3 leaving Blake, and LA
Dwight leave Kobe, Lakers and LA
the city of LA will lose 2 superstars...loving it
I think it might be funnier if the salary cap situation was such that it was feasible for Dwight Howard to stick it to the Lakers by joining CP3 on the Clippers.
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.
I really strongly disagree. Dirk is a better leader and scorer than anyone on the Clips, Dwight is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on the clips. I guess you could argue Blake is better than Dirk, but Dirk has something Blake doesn't, and that's the ability to score at will, from anywhere. Dwight is already better than Blake.
Dirk will be 35 before next season starts. I don't think he has too many "score at will" years left.
I had two joke responses:
1) at what age does he stop being 7 feet tall with an unblockable jumpshot?
2) Don't Germans measure years in metric years? If a kilo gram is more than a pound, isn't Dirk actually 32 in American years?
But it's a fair point. I'd say Dirk has more than 2 years remaining as potentially dominant scorer at the 4, but he surely has less years left than Griffin, CP3, or Howard as an elite player.
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I bet in some wierd bs way, Paul will leave the Clippers and wind up on the Lakers. Then they will win a few titles, and just as Howard gets into his 30's they will flip him for Anthony Davis, my jebus.
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.
I really strongly disagree. Dirk is a better leader and scorer than anyone on the Clips, Dwight is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on the clips. I guess you could argue Blake is better than Dirk, but Dirk has something Blake doesn't, and that's the ability to score at will, from anywhere. Dwight is already better than Blake.
Deandre is developing nicely. His ability to protect the rim is just as good as Dwights. Dirk HAS to come back from knee surgery well for this to matter. As for Howard I believe he has peaked. We have seen him at his best. Blake is just getting started. It's what his third season playing? He has a lot more upside. You also then have to look at the rest of the supporting cast. Billups, Crawford, Butler, etc. give them a better overall team.
Clips look like they have a shot at the Finals this year with how the Lakers have looked and the Thunder have looked. They match up very well with both of those teams. If they can get productive play from Odom and Grant Hill can contribute like in Phoenix then this team could be the favorite to come out of the West in May.
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.
I really strongly disagree. Dirk is a better leader and scorer than anyone on the Clips, Dwight is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on the clips. I guess you could argue Blake is better than Dirk, but Dirk has something Blake doesn't, and that's the ability to score at will, from anywhere. Dwight is already better than Blake.
Deandre is developing nicely. His ability to protect the rim is just as good as Dwights. Dirk HAS to come back from knee surgery well for this to matter. As for Howard I believe he has peaked. We have seen him at his best. Blake is just getting started. It's what his third season playing? He has a lot more upside. You also then have to look at the rest of the supporting cast. Billups, Crawford, Butler, etc. give them a better overall team.
Clips look like they have a shot at the Finals this year with how the Lakers have looked and the Thunder have looked. They match up very well with both of those teams. If they can get productive play from Odom and Grant Hill can contribute like in Phoenix then this team could be the favorite to come out of the West in May.
I don't see the Clips making it past the Spurs, the Grizzlies*, or even the Mavs or the T-Wolves (if everyone on both squads remain relatively healthy.)
*With the caveat that, for whatever reason, the Grizzlies seem to be allergic to beating the Clippers.
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.
I really strongly disagree. Dirk is a better leader and scorer than anyone on the Clips, Dwight is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on the clips. I guess you could argue Blake is better than Dirk, but Dirk has something Blake doesn't, and that's the ability to score at will, from anywhere. Dwight is already better than Blake.
Deandre is developing nicely. His ability to protect the rim is just as good as Dwights. Dirk HAS to come back from knee surgery well for this to matter. As for Howard I believe he has peaked. We have seen him at his best. Blake is just getting started. It's what his third season playing? He has a lot more upside. You also then have to look at the rest of the supporting cast. Billups, Crawford, Butler, etc. give them a better overall team.
Clips look like they have a shot at the Finals this year with how the Lakers have looked and the Thunder have looked. They match up very well with both of those teams. If they can get productive play from Odom and Grant Hill can contribute like in Phoenix then this team could be the favorite to come out of the West in May.
I don't disagree about Blake having yuge upside, but I really, strongly, passionately disagree with DJ being 'as good' as DH at protecting the rim (which for me means as a help defender protecting the rim). Dwight's a better defensive player across da board.
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Why would anyone in the nba want to play with D12 now? Worst teammate of all time; & his FT shooting sucks the life out of you at crunch time.
Yeah, think cp3 is perfectly happy with Blake & DJ
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Why would anyone in the nba want to play with D12 now? Worst teammate of all time; & his FT shooting sucks the life out of you at crunch time.
Yeah, think cp3 is perfectly happy with Blake & DJ
Blake and DJ, who have FT shooting that suck the life out of you at crunch time. :P
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.
I really strongly disagree. Dirk is a better leader and scorer than anyone on the Clips, Dwight is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on the clips. I guess you could argue Blake is better than Dirk, but Dirk has something Blake doesn't, and that's the ability to score at will, from anywhere. Dwight is already better than Blake.
Dirk will be 35 before next season starts. I don't think he has too many "score at will" years left.
I had two joke responses:
1) at what age does he stop being 7 feet tall with an unblockable jumpshot?
2) Don't Germans measure years in metric years? If a kilo gram is more than a pound, isn't Dirk actually 32 in American years?
But it's a fair point. I'd say Dirk has more than 2 years remaining as potentially dominant scorer at the 4, but he surely has less years left than Griffin, CP3, or Howard as an elite player.
We'll see. Right now the only players 36 or older that ever got 20 a game were MJ, Kareem and Malone.
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....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(
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....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(
Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.
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I'd love to see DH leave LA high and dry after this year. Can't see CP3 leaving the Clips though -- seems to like it there.
DH to Atlanta would be intriguing if ATL can hang on to Smith, Horford and Teague. Move Smith to SF, Horford to PF and that's the most dominant frontline in the NBA. I'd rate that higher than Carmelo/Amare/ Chandler (but not by much).
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.
I really strongly disagree. Dirk is a better leader and scorer than anyone on the Clips, Dwight is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on the clips. I guess you could argue Blake is better than Dirk, but Dirk has something Blake doesn't, and that's the ability to score at will, from anywhere. Dwight is already better than Blake.
Dirk will be 35 before next season starts. I don't think he has too many "score at will" years left.
I had two joke responses:
1) at what age does he stop being 7 feet tall with an unblockable jumpshot?
2) Don't Germans measure years in metric years? If a kilo gram is more than a pound, isn't Dirk actually 32 in American years?
But it's a fair point. I'd say Dirk has more than 2 years remaining as potentially dominant scorer at the 4, but he surely has less years left than Griffin, CP3, or Howard as an elite player.
We'll see. Right now the only players 36 or older that ever got 20 a game were MJ, Kareem and Malone.
That doesn't mean there hasn't been plenty of 36 year olds that can score at will. It means teams have a replacement ready because nobody plays much longer than 36. Instead of being left high and dry they try to integrate other guys into the offense, typically while the older guys sit back and coast to the playoffs.
If Dirk is still getting 17 shots a game next year, there's no chance he scores less than 20. Much more likely some of those shots are going to OJ Mayo (or Collison and Crowder).
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.
I really strongly disagree. Dirk is a better leader and scorer than anyone on the Clips, Dwight is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on the clips. I guess you could argue Blake is better than Dirk, but Dirk has something Blake doesn't, and that's the ability to score at will, from anywhere. Dwight is already better than Blake.
Dirk will be 35 before next season starts. I don't think he has too many "score at will" years left.
I had two joke responses:
1) at what age does he stop being 7 feet tall with an unblockable jumpshot?
2) Don't Germans measure years in metric years? If a kilo gram is more than a pound, isn't Dirk actually 32 in American years?
But it's a fair point. I'd say Dirk has more than 2 years remaining as potentially dominant scorer at the 4, but he surely has less years left than Griffin, CP3, or Howard as an elite player.
We'll see. Right now the only players 36 or older that ever got 20 a game were MJ, Kareem and Malone.
That doesn't mean there hasn't been plenty of 36 year olds that can score at will. It means teams have a replacement ready because nobody plays much longer than 36. Instead of being left high and dry they try to integrate other guys into the offense, typically while the older guys sit back and coast to the playoffs.
Sometimes there's a replacement scorer, but I doubt that it's the case for all but 3 players in nba history. And Malone and Kareem are the only players in that age range that played more than 1 series in the playoffs and averaged 20 or more points, so I don't think that that coasting for the regular season is the issue either.
If Dirk is still getting 17 shots a game next year, there's no chance he scores less than 20. Much more likely some of those shots are going to OJ Mayo (or Collison and Crowder).
If KG and Ray were both getting 17 shots a game they'd be averaging well over 20 a game. The point isn't that players that age can't score efficiently, but they can't carry the load as often or as long as they used to.
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....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(
Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.
Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo
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....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(
Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.
Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo
I disagree. We could obviously use another defender/rebounder, but when you're looking mainly for role players, Bradley/Lee/Terry/Green/Bass/Wilcox/Barbosa is a pretty good group.
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....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(
Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.
Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo
I disagree. We could obviously use another defender/rebounder, but when you're looking mainly for role players, Bradley/Lee/Terry/Green/Bass/Wilcox/Barbosa is a pretty good group.
We'll see. Hopefully the standings at the end of the season reflect this.
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....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(
Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.
Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo
I disagree. We could obviously use another defender/rebounder, but when you're looking mainly for role players, Bradley/Lee/Terry/Green/Bass/Wilcox/Barbosa is a pretty good group.
Danny has done more then I could have ever expected him to with what he has to work with. In 2008-09 I thought he sat on the sidelines, but other then not signing David West he has come through with great off-seasons every year.
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....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(
Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.
Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo
I disagree. We could obviously use another defender/rebounder, but when you're looking mainly for role players, Bradley/Lee/Terry/Green/Bass/Wilcox/Barbosa is a pretty good group.
We'll see. Hopefully the standings at the end of the season reflect this.
I'm more concerned with the postseason than the standings.
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It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic
Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. You'd think this would be a bigger deal. I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.
Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.
I really strongly disagree. Dirk is a better leader and scorer than anyone on the Clips, Dwight is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on the clips. I guess you could argue Blake is better than Dirk, but Dirk has something Blake doesn't, and that's the ability to score at will, from anywhere. Dwight is already better than Blake.
Dirk will be 35 before next season starts. I don't think he has too many "score at will" years left.
I had two joke responses:
1) at what age does he stop being 7 feet tall with an unblockable jumpshot?
2) Don't Germans measure years in metric years? If a kilo gram is more than a pound, isn't Dirk actually 32 in American years?
But it's a fair point. I'd say Dirk has more than 2 years remaining as potentially dominant scorer at the 4, but he surely has less years left than Griffin, CP3, or Howard as an elite player.
We'll see. Right now the only players 36 or older that ever got 20 a game were MJ, Kareem and Malone.
That doesn't mean there hasn't been plenty of 36 year olds that can score at will. It means teams have a replacement ready because nobody plays much longer than 36. Instead of being left high and dry they try to integrate other guys into the offense, typically while the older guys sit back and coast to the playoffs.
Sometimes there's a replacement scorer, but I doubt that it's the case for all but 3 players in nba history. And Malone and Kareem are the only players in that age range that played more than 1 series in the playoffs and averaged 20 or more points, so I don't think that that coasting for the regular season is the issue either.
If Dirk is still getting 17 shots a game next year, there's no chance he scores less than 20. Much more likely some of those shots are going to OJ Mayo (or Collison and Crowder).
If KG and Ray were both getting 17 shots a game they'd be averaging well over 20 a game. The point isn't that players that age can't score efficiently, but they can't carry the load as often or as long as they used to.
1. Well first of all there's less than 40 guys period (let alone scorers) 36 or older that played 70 games and averaged 30 minutes. Most dominant scorers call it quits earlier whether it's because they want to retire dominant, they want to enjoy their money/family, they don't want to accept smaller roles, or because defensive players typically last longer (it's way easier to hide a guy on offense than defense). And again, it takes a lot of shots that aren't there for the guys left to score 20.
I bet you I can find a lot more instances where there's younger replacement guys getting more shots as a star nears retirement than you can find where there's an older star being "the guy" (and failing) on a roster full of garbage.
2. The reason why is because neither is on a team with poor enough players to warrant that many shots, which kinda makes my point. Put them back on a team like the Wolves or the Sonics and see what happens. Younger stars command more assets and are much more likely to be on a team all by themselves. Do you really think someone like 36 year old Duncan couldn't carry the load on a below .500 team and average 1 more point the rest of the season? Without Parker, Manu, and all the young guys they're trying to develop.
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....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(
Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.
Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo
I disagree. We could obviously use another defender/rebounder, but when you're looking mainly for role players, Bradley/Lee/Terry/Green/Bass/Wilcox/Barbosa is a pretty good group.
We'll see. Hopefully the standings at the end of the season reflect this.
I'm more concerned with the postseason than the standings.
Me too, that's what I meant. Certainly our current record doesn't reflect well on the type of team we have, however if fare well in the playoffs, much different story!!
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Leave the best upcoming frontline in the Nba to play with a petulant coach killing baby....hopefully Chris paul is smarter than that
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I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
Despite how we do this year, I think come next year a trio of Pierce, KG and Rondo will just simply NOT cut it in the NBA.
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I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
Despite how we do this year, I think come next year a trio of Pierce, KG and Rondo will just simply NOT cut it in the NBA.
It wont cut it this year as far as a title is concerned. We need Green, Terry, Bass, Lee, Avery, and Sully to all be big contributors. We also need another big to get bought out eventually and sign with us. I like Wilcox but I don't trust him to be a contributor consistently.
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I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
Neither player is a realistic target. Any efforts made to try and steal them away in free agency will fail. They are both in very good situations with strong talent around them and can be paid more at their current locations than anywhere else.
Nobody is going to be able to make a bid that convinces either one of them to leave their current teams. This isn't Chris Bosh in Toronto or LeBron James in Cleveland. Dwight Howard has Nash, Kobe and Pau Gasol. Chris Paul has Blake Griffin and friends.
Danny needs to focus on targets who are realistically acquirable.
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I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
Neither player is a realistic target. Any efforts made to try and steal them away in free agency will fail. They are both in very good situations with strong talent around them and can be paid more at their current locations than anywhere else.
Nobody is going to be able to make a bid that convinces either one of them to leave their current teams. This isn't Chris Bosh in Toronto or LeBron James in Cleveland. Dwight Howard has Nash, Kobe and Pau Gasol. Chris Paul has Blake Griffin and friends.
Danny needs to focus on targets who are realistically acquirable.
There just aren't any that I can think of at that level of ability. Unless you consider Pau Gasol or Josh Smith on that level.
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I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
Neither player is a realistic target. Any efforts made to try and steal them away in free agency will fail. They are both in very good situations with strong talent around them and can be paid more at their current locations than anywhere else.
Nobody is going to be able to make a bid that convinces either one of them to leave their current teams. This isn't Chris Bosh in Toronto or LeBron James in Cleveland. Dwight Howard has Nash, Kobe and Pau Gasol. Chris Paul has Blake Griffin and friends.
Danny needs to focus on targets who are realistically acquirable.
There just aren't any that I can think of at that level of ability. Unless you consider Pau Gasol or Josh Smith on that level.
Of course they aren't on that level, but we don't need that level. We need one more fringe all-star and we're in business. We don't need a superstar.
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I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
I'm sure that he's come up with every possible scenario to land Howard.
Despite how we do this year, I think come next year a trio of Pierce, KG and Rondo will just simply NOT cut it in the NBA.
We should play some of the other guys with them then.
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I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
Neither player is a realistic target. Any efforts made to try and steal them away in free agency will fail. They are both in very good situations with strong talent around them and can be paid more at their current locations than anywhere else.
Nobody is going to be able to make a bid that convinces either one of them to leave their current teams. This isn't Chris Bosh in Toronto or LeBron James in Cleveland. Dwight Howard has Nash, Kobe and Pau Gasol. Chris Paul has Blake Griffin and friends.
Danny needs to focus on targets who are realistically acquirable.
There just aren't any that I can think of at that level of ability. Unless you consider Pau Gasol or Josh Smith on that level.
Of course they aren't on that level, but we don't need that level. We need one more fringe all-star and we're in business. We don't need a superstar.
I disagree with this. I think signing "fringe" players is cutting corners. Remember, 5 years ago KG was a "superstar" player (and despite his age, I think is still considered one today)and that year the Celtics won a title.
You either have a championship caliber team or no team at all. To me, there's no gray area.
If we are talking about guys like Gasol and Smith, that's one thing. But if the goal is continuing to acquire half-as**ed players like Brandon Bass, Jeff Green, Mickael Pietrus and Keyon Dooling, then you're not going anywhere.
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I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
Neither player is a realistic target. Any efforts made to try and steal them away in free agency will fail. They are both in very good situations with strong talent around them and can be paid more at their current locations than anywhere else.
Nobody is going to be able to make a bid that convinces either one of them to leave their current teams. This isn't Chris Bosh in Toronto or LeBron James in Cleveland. Dwight Howard has Nash, Kobe and Pau Gasol. Chris Paul has Blake Griffin and friends.
Danny needs to focus on targets who are realistically acquirable.
There just aren't any that I can think of at that level of ability. Unless you consider Pau Gasol or Josh Smith on that level.
Of course they aren't on that level, but we don't need that level. We need one more fringe all-star and we're in business. We don't need a superstar.
I disagree with this. I think signing "fringe" players is cutting corners. Remember, 5 years ago KG was a "superstar" player (and despite his age, I think is still considered one today)and that year the Celtics won a title.
You either have a championship caliber team or no team at all. To me, there's no gray area.
If we are talking about guys like Gasol and Smith, that's one thing. But if the goal is continuing to acquire half-as**ed players like Brandon Bass, Jeff Green, Mickael Pietrus and Keyon Dooling, then you're not going anywhere.
How on earth are Bass, Pietrus, and Dooling considered fringe all-stars? Green has the potential to be one, but he isn't.
There are only 12 all-stars from each conference each year. Are any of the four you listed even close to a top 12 player in the east? No. Is Josh Smith? Yes. Is Gasol close in the west? Yes.
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You misunderstood me and I probably misunderstood the previous fan as well. I think Josh Smith and Pau Gasol are superstar caliber players and the type of players I would either sign or trade for.
If I have a Josh Smith or Pau Gasol on my team, I feel alot better about competing vs Miami than with some of the guys on the current roster.
Maybe my definition of a fringe star player is different than others. I look at a fringe player as someone who's just barely going to be able to contribute.
I look at a superstar player as not just someone named Lebron, Kobe or Durant, but someone who can make an immediate impact, ala Josh Smith or Pau Gasol
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I'm bumping this topic from November, because I think it's a relevant subject.
Not enough is being made of the fact that Dwight and Chris Paul (who have wanted to play together for years) are both UNRESTRICTED free agents this summer.
Lakers just got swept. I still say Dwight sticks around, but are you going to be shocked if he bails on them?
Clippers are about to lose in the 1st round. Also, it appears there's a wee bit of trouble in Clipper land according to Bill SImmons:
The macro problem: Even after they bring in another coach, they need to figure out how to mesh Lob City with the CP3 era. Because, right now, Blake Griffin and best friend DeAndre Jordan don't love playing basketball with him — that was the worst-kept secret in basketball until T.J. Simers wrote about it last month. The young guys want to run. Chris wants to win. The young guys think Chris is condescending. Chris thinks they care too much about getting on YouTube. Blake feels like he gets frozen out of games late. Chris doesn't want to pass to him because Blake can't make free throws. Blake didn't understand why Chris got input in last summer's free-agent moves and he didn't. Chris doesn't think Blake works hard enough at defending high screens. Etc. etc. etc. They've uneasily coexisted these past two seasons, and these last few weeks it's gotten rocky enough that they can barely hide it in their on-court interactions.
Let's talk about this. I may have leaped to conclusions with my suggestion of Dallas (do they have the potential cap space?).... but what about another team? Atlanta? Still expecting them both to re-up in LA? Thoughts?
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They'd both have to take large paycuts to do so. I don't see it happening.
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They'd both have to take large paycuts to do so. I don't see it happening.
Thoughts on a potential sign-and-trade? Dwight to the Clippers? Paul to the Lakers? Still unthinkable?
I'm not making any predictions here (unlike when the Magic extended Dwight for a year and I correctly predicted they were still going to trade him in the Summer) ... But I think it's worth discussing. We may have overestimated how happy Dwight and Chris are on their respective teams.
Here's that article on the Chris Paul being unhappy there: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers-clippers-20130404,0,5863918,full.column ... with them potentially getting bounced in the first round, I think it's something to watch.
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BTW, I think Atlanta only has Lou WIlliams and Al Horford under contract next year... something like 18 million on the books...
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CP3, Dwight, and Nowitzki will be a force to reckon with in the West.
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Some of my Lakers-fan coworkers are thinking the Lakers will (or at least should) sign-and-trade Howard to either Houston or Atlanta. I can also see Dallas as a possibility.
I didn't know about all the Clippers friction, and Howard's situation is certainly a bit rocky at this point. Hard to imagine either of them giving up the extra cash, which is why a couple of S&Ts wouldn't surprise me.
As much as Howard annoys me, I don't mind if he goes to any of those three teams, even if it means him winning a title—my main concerns (outside of the Cs) are the Lakers and Heat NOT winning more titles.
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Sign and Trade's no longer give a player extra cash over just signing as a FA though right?
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CP3 won't stick around with the Clippers. My guess is next season he'll end up in Dallas and Dwight will be playing for Houston. Mark Cuban is too savvy not to get at least one of those guys.