CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Jeff on November 01, 2012, 10:32:05 AM
-
so, honest question from someone who isn't an NBA scout
Jeff Green got a four-year, $36 million contract this summer called the worst signing of the summer by Hollinger
how does his contract stack up to Jrue Holiday's 4 year $41M extension? and also...
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/01/jrue-holiday-signs-41-million-contract-extension-with-philly/
To give some perspective, that is less of an extension than Ty Lawson got ($48 million) but more than Taj Gibson ($38 million) or DeMar DeRozan (a head-scratching $40 million).
-
All depends on how he plays. Based on game 1, Hollinger was right. But, if he can pick up his game, then its not looking so bad.
-
Holiday's contract is a good one. He has to improve as a floor general to earn it but his defense and overall skillset make me pretty comfortable with that price tag.
Gibson was too much too early, but overall defensible since they parted with Asik.
The DeRozan contract is ridiculous, he's shown me nothing to make me believe he can help a team win games. Very much an empty numbers on a bad team guy.
-
I think his is right on par with those other contracts. Considering his is the lowest its not that bad.
Im one of the people that think we are gonna see a lot.more of the pre season jeff green and a lot less of the game 1 jeff green
-
Wow, DeRozan got $40 million? Colangelo is a knucklehead. That Toronto team is going nowhere. The really need a change at the top with their front office / ownership.
Philadelphia got Jrue Holiday on a good contract. Nice work. Putting Holiday and Bynum together is a nice start to building a high quality team down the road.
-
I'd say Jeff Green was worth around $7 million prior to his heart condition. Paying an additional $2 million more per annum (prior to that health issue) for potential is perfectly acceptable given his athleticism / skill-set.
My issue is giving him that money after spending last season on the sidelines. I am shocked Jeff Green was still able to command just as much as he was prior to the injury. Shocked.
Anyway, we'll see how it goes ... it should be okay if his healthy is right (encouraging signs so far).
-
I'd say Jeff Green was worth around $7 million prior to his heart condition. Paying an additional $2 million more per annum (prior to that health issue) for potential is perfectly acceptable given his athleticism / skill-set.
My issue is giving him that money after spending last season on the sidelines. I am shocked Jeff Green was still able to command just as much as he was prior to the injury. Shocked.
Anyway, we'll see how it goes ... it should be okay if his healthy is right (encouraging signs so far).
I feel like a one year injury doesn't usually affect your contract much. I guess there aren' t too many examples either way but if jrue Holiday tore his acl last night would he automatically command less money next year? I think he would still get around the same number.
Plus I feel like Greens injury or condition probably isn't going to have much of a long or short term effect.
-
I dislike Jeff Green and hope Danny trade him ASAP.
I'm just sick of seeing a player with great talents failing to really make impact in big games again and again. >:(
-
I thought the Green contract was pretty bad, but the DeRozan contract is significantly worse.
-
I think its right on par. I definitely think that Green will (i mean he should) be better than both Derzon and Gibson so in that light I think we got somewhat of a steal. We've got Green locked up so within the next couple years he can start taking the torch from Pierce. Im not looking for him to be super impressive this season.
-
Jeff Green is only 6 months younger than Rondo.
-
All the players you're mentioning are better than Jeff green so they aren't significantly worse contracts
-
Green has the ability no doubt, I'm ok with the price tag :
if he.... "plays like he is being paid"
Green is in the Bullseye , of all the Celtics Green is under the scrutiny of DA/DOC/ Owner /Fan s more than any other player IMO.
he needs to step up ...XMAS will be too late .
-
That Derozan contract actually makes me feel okay about the Green contract.
Jrue Holiday will earn that money, and then some; and Taj Gibson is heavily overpaid imo, even though I love his game.
Green will be fine, and I think he's gonna step it up and be more aggressive soon. But, you never know.
-
There are a lot of mediocre NBA players making ridiculous amounts of money. 4 years, $36million is a good deal for Jeff Green, as far as I'm concerned.
-
I dislike Jeff Green and hope Danny trade him ASAP.
I'm just sick of seeing a player with great talents failing to really make impact in big games again and again. >:(
Uhh...the first game in an 82 game season is not exactly a 'big game', especially when it's against a team we play about 4 times (hence it's not like homecourt advantage depended on that game).
Technically it's actually a relatively meaningless game in the grand scheme of things, it was just an exciting game for fans becuase it was against the defending champs, our biggest rivals, and our first game of the season.
Jeff will be fine.
As for contracts, I'm much more concerned about the ones Houston paid to Jeremy Lin and Omar Asik...
-
Hey I was yelling at Jeff Green on Tuesday night for how timid he was playing but to start this nonsense about 1 game in is too early. We have no idea how he'll perform after getting into the season. We just have to wait.
What we do know right now is that we need him to perform. We will need Green and Terry to step up way more than they did last game if we have any chance against the Heat. Pierce and Rondo had good games and Barbosa did what we expected JET to do but without another guy giving us an aggressive punch on the offensive end we're not going to out gun them or outrun them.
One other thing to look for is the Celtics defensive system falling into place in the coming months. We're a new team. 66% of our team this year is new from last years playoff squad. It will take a few weeks, maybe a couple months to get up to speed from a teamwork standpoint. It's possible we won't have a cohesive defense until the all-star break. Not to quote Dwight Howard but, patience is key.
-
Give the dude a break, i think he deserves a pass on his first game back from heart surgery, against the world champs, on the same floor where he last played 2 years ago. It's a pretty emotional situation.
-
I dislike Jeff Green and hope Danny trade him ASAP.
I'm just sick of seeing a player with great talents failing to really make impact in big games again and again. >:(
Uhh...the first game in an 82 game season is not exactly a 'big game', especially when it's against a team we play about 4 times (hence it's not like homecourt advantage depended on that game).
Technically it's actually a relatively meaningless game in the grand scheme of things, it was just an exciting game for fans becuase it was against the defending champs, our biggest rivals, and our first game of the season.
Jeff will be fine.
As for contracts, I'm much more concerned about the ones Houston paid to Jeremy Lin and Omar Asik...
Asik is a defensive game changer. Would much rather have him at his contract.
-
That derozen contract is awful awful awful (and Hollinger has been railing that one too), but a bad team signing a bad contract (same team that overpaid for fields) shouldn't really make us feel better about overpaying for Green.
Holiday had a disappointing year last year that was still better than either all of Green's years or all but one of green's years, and is very young for his draft class. He is also very valuable on defense and a good shooter, so he'll stick.
Taj Gibson is a great defensive PF and decent on offense, so I think his contract will be fine value.
Lawson's and Curry's were a bit steep for different reasons (will lawson maintain his high level projection/can curry actually stay healthy), but we'll see on those; both have far more potential than Green.
-
A much as I love Jeff Green and want to see him do well, there is a little voice in my head saying "He has only played well against other mostly deep bench players and in garbage time". Deep Bench players and Garbage Time players do not earn his salary in the NBA.
Jeff needs to step up his game and give us what we are paying for or he will soon hear some boo's. He doesnt deserve that IMHO. Yet.
-
Give the dude a break, i think he deserves a pass on his first game back from heart surgery, against the world champs, on the same floor where he last played 2 years ago. It's a pretty emotional situation.
If he was capable of playing great in the preseason then really all you're doing is giving him excuses.....it was as predictable as anything for him to go from a very promising preseason to an absolute dud where he looked like he did on the same floor 2years ago..awful
-
I guess we (Danny) gave Jeff this contract based on his potential and on his play in practice. Hope he doesnt turn out to be a great practice player that has a hard time bringing it to the court in regular season.
I dont weight the preseason as heavily as the regular season and I dont count play against lower tier players the same as starters. I do enjoy the prediction and potential game with young players but it can only go so far.
I think a lot of folks here have possibly overvalued Jeff before he has performed. I have been somewhat guilty of this as well but I am getting suspicious.
-
The downside with Green on this team is he may have a hard time getting a lot of shots - not many to go around with Terry and Barbosa also coming off the bench and guys like Lee, Sully and Bass absorbing some shots.
There have allusions to this already (Rondo saying they need him to be the stopper, Green calling attention to his defensive aggression), but he's going to have to make his impact on D and the boards.
It's going to be hard for him to average the kind of offensive stats people want to see for $9 mil per.
-
The downside with Green on this team is he may have a hard time getting a lot of shots - not many to go around with Terry and Barbosa also coming off the bench and guys like Lee, Sully and Bass absorbing some shots.
There have allusions to this already (Rondo saying they need him to be the stopper, Green calling attention to his defensive aggression), but he's going to have to make his impact on D and the boards.
It's going to be hard for him to average the kind of offensive stats people want to see for $9 mil per.
If he just loses that deer in headlights look in any pressure situation it would be a start. The problem is that Green's main talent is scoring. He's just not an above average defender, rebounder, or passer.
-
That derozen contract is awful awful awful (and Hollinger has been railing that one too), but a bad team signing a bad contract (same team that overpaid for fields) shouldn't really make us feel better about overpaying for Green.
Holiday had a disappointing year last year that was still better than either all of Green's years or all but one of green's years, and is very young for his draft class. He is also very valuable on defense and a good shooter, so he'll stick.
Taj Gibson is a great defensive PF and decent on offense, so I think his contract will be fine value.
Lawson's and Curry's were a bit steep for different reasons (will lawson maintain his high level projection/can curry actually stay healthy), but we'll see on those; both have far more potential than Green.
Holiday was horrible as my teammate on My Player mode in NBA 2k12. For this reason, I don't think he is any good.
-
Who defended Green all night? I saw Battier on him for a while. I ask because Green does not yet seem to have the confidence and comfort to attack someone like Battier or Lebron on offense.
-
I hate comparing a contract to what others got to somehow justify that it is good.
It is based on whether or not the player plays at that level.
-
I hate comparing a contract to what others got to somehow justify that it is good.
It is based on whether or not the player plays at that level.
While I agree with this, I think with Green in particular, there were a lot of complaints, both on here, as well as by national sports writers that Danny was "bidding against himself", and paid more than "market value" for Green. And I think these contracts suggest that perhaps market value is higher than many of those people suspected.
-
I hate comparing a contract to what others got to somehow justify that it is good.
It is based on whether or not the player plays at that level.
Agree and disagree. The market determines $ value. Whether they are worth it is determined at the end of the contract when you see what they contributed during the duration. Younger guys are expected to improve, to you pay to a degree for the potential. Sometimes, you hit the jackpot, like with Rondo's contract. Sometimes you end up with someone who doesn't substantially improve and the contract was a bust.
-
The downside with Green on this team is he may have a hard time getting a lot of shots - not many to go around with Terry and Barbosa also coming off the bench and guys like Lee, Sully and Bass absorbing some shots.
There have allusions to this already (Rondo saying they need him to be the stopper, Green calling attention to his defensive aggression), but he's going to have to make his impact on D and the boards.
It's going to be hard for him to average the kind of offensive stats people want to see for $9 mil per.
If he just loses that deer in headlights look in any pressure situation it would be a start. The problem is that Green's main talent is scoring. He's just not an above average defender, rebounder, or passer.
That's what I think the team is hoping to get out of him this year though. They want him to use his size and athleticism to make a difference in the other areas of the game.
That's where most of his untapped potential is: defense. He's got the size and length to be an above average defender at the 3 and a plus rebounder too, but he hasn't put them together to make much of an impact yet.
-
I hate comparing a contract to what others got to somehow justify that it is good.
It is based on whether or not the player plays at that level.
While I agree with this, I think with Green in particular, there were a lot of complaints, both on here, as well as by national sports writers that Danny was "bidding against himself", and paid more than "market value" for Green. And I think these contracts suggest that perhaps market value is higher than many of those people suspected.
I am of the belief that good team will only overpay for star type players.
Whether or not Green is overpayed is yet to be determined.
-
The downside with Green on this team is he may have a hard time getting a lot of shots - not many to go around with Terry and Barbosa also coming off the bench and guys like Lee, Sully and Bass absorbing some shots.
There have allusions to this already (Rondo saying they need him to be the stopper, Green calling attention to his defensive aggression), but he's going to have to make his impact on D and the boards.
It's going to be hard for him to average the kind of offensive stats people want to see for $9 mil per.
If he just loses that deer in headlights look in any pressure situation it would be a start. The problem is that Green's main talent is scoring. He's just not an above average defender, rebounder, or passer.
That's what I think the team is hoping to get out of him this year though. They want him to use his size and athleticism to make a difference in the other areas of the game.
That's where most of his untapped potential is: defense. He's got the size and length to be an above average defender at the 3 and a plus rebounder too, but he hasn't put them together to make much of an impact yet.
I agree that Green could improve a lot defensively but I doubt he can improve his rebounding by much. Players come into the league and either they can rebound or they can't. Plus big men get paid for rebounds so they are trying to get them from day one.
-
Give the dude a break, i think he deserves a pass on his first game back from heart surgery, against the world champs, on the same floor where he last played 2 years ago. It's a pretty emotional situation.
If he was capable of playing great in the preseason then really all you're doing is giving him excuses.....it was as predictable as anything for him to go from a very promising preseason to an absolute dud where he looked like he did on the same floor 2years ago..awful
You did not just compare opening night, against last years best defense in the league, not to mention, on the opposite teams ring ceremony, to the (dang) preseason, against teams' benches.
Look, I know jumping to conclusions is fun and all, but that's all it is, a jump.
-
The downside with Green on this team is he may have a hard time getting a lot of shots - not many to go around with Terry and Barbosa also coming off the bench and guys like Lee, Sully and Bass absorbing some shots.
There have allusions to this already (Rondo saying they need him to be the stopper, Green calling attention to his defensive aggression), but he's going to have to make his impact on D and the boards.
It's going to be hard for him to average the kind of offensive stats people want to see for $9 mil per.
If he just loses that deer in headlights look in any pressure situation it would be a start. The problem is that Green's main talent is scoring. He's just not an above average defender, rebounder, or passer.
I would say he is very poor in those areas. I don't get why everyone is saying the Derozan is a worse contract than Jeff Green's. He is a much better scorer(both in points and efficiency) in non preseason games than Jeff Green and scoring is pretty much the only part of Jeff Green's game that isn't horrendous. Let's wait until he actually does something to help the Celtics win a game before saying he will be a major component to the future of this team.