CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: Birdman on October 24, 2012, 10:33:17 AM
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All Ive been hearing is how the Lakers may be the best team in the NBA. But am I the only one who doesnt think they all top 5 team? They have more questions than answers:
1. Kobe and Nash has alot of mileage and are getting up there in age
2. Kobe has some injuries last couple of year and he may be just 34 but that body has taken alot of hits
3. Howard is coming off back surgery. Now he may be 100% now but it may come later on after a full season
4. Metta World Peace-We all know he is a ticking timebomb. One game he looks great, next game looks awful
5. Really, how is Kobe and Pau Gasol relationship?
6. This team is old and come playoff time, they may be worn down
7. NO BENCH..Jamison is good but also up there in age. After him, no one pops out at me. Starters will have to put in alot of minutes and go back to point 7, they will be worn down
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I think this is wishful thinking at best.
I understand not wanting to annoint the Lakers the best team in the league, but I find a hard time not putting them in the top 5, at least on paper (which is all it can be at this point in the season).
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We'll certainly find out. I expect the Lakers to be very, very good this year. On paper, it's the strongest starting 5 in the NBA.
Glad they're not our problem for awhile...
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Dwight Howard alone can get you a top 5 record in a conference.
Add in the rest of their talent and they're clearly top title contenders.
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I clearly believe health, age, and no bench will be there downfall. Hope they dont prove me wrong, lol.
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I hate to say it, but I think that any team with Dwight Howard on it is at least a top 10 team right there.
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There's no way you can't make them a top 5 on paper. I mean, there's no team out West expect OKC that you can clearly put above them and Miami and Boston are the only teams in the East that you could make a strong argument for. On paper.
On the court...Howard is a clearly inferior offensive player compared to Bynum, Nash is only Steve Nash when he's dominating the ball on offense, their bench looks to be the worst of any serious title contender and Kobe has obviously (to anyone not blinded by his legacy) been declining for several years and there's no reason to think that won't continue.
Mike
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I agree that the Lakers are thin on depth, especially at the C given Howard's back.
But, Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, MWP, Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash? That's a strong starting lineup. I'd have them in the top 5.
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On paper, they certainly are.
Let's see how the season unfolds but its nearly impossible to argue them being outside the Top 5 right now.
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jodie meeks signing massively underrated
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jodie meeks signing massively underrated
Very true. I actually like the Lakers bench. I think it is the strongest bench they have had for years.
Meeks
Hill (very underrated energy big off the bench)
Jamison (can still score and rebound)
Duhon
Clark
Those are all quality NBA bench players. It isn't in the same stratosphere as the C's bench, but their starting lineup is better (on paper), and it is a strong bench for a top heavy team.
The interesting thing about the new CBA, is that by squeezing the middle of the market out, they have promoted even more ring chasing, and made the benches of all of the contenders much stronger than a few years ago, and stripped the non-contenders of even more talent.
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I think its mainly going to be a Howard/Bryant team.
Don't think Nash will have nearly the impact that some think he will and Pau has been the odd man out for a few years now. Not saying those 2 aren't good but they aren't as impactful as they used to. We'll see how much they thrive as complimentary pieces.
With that said Howard/Bryant team is probably a top 5 team although I don't know if they will have a top 5in regular season record necessarily
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Heat, Celtics, Thunder, possibly Spurs who else can better than the Lakers? That being said, they are vastly overrated. They are the slowest team. They have awful perimeter defense.
1 - Kobe and Artest are no longer elite defenders. They have no athleticism outside of Dwight.
2 - They have no legit 3 point shooting outside of Nash. Meeks is too awful at everything else to earn time on the court. Kobe is average.
3 - Dwight might average 5 blocks but he'll be in constant foul trouble dealing with Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Wade, Lebron, Rondo, Bradley, Green etc. who will blow by the Lakers back court.
4 - They have no athleticism outside of Dwight.
5 - They are old. Like the Celtics of the past few years, they may be extremely talented but old people miss games.
6 - Dwight was traded there against his will. The CBA ensures he won't sign an extension even if he wanted to sign there. Welcome to Dwightmare.
7 - Antwaun Jamison shot 40 percent from the field last year. Jordan Hill has legal and health issues. The rest of their bench is too abysmal to even talk about.
8 - Pau has been in steady decline as one would expect from a man of his age and limited athleticism.
9 - It's Kobe's team. Dwight wants it to be his team. Kobe wants the ball.
10 - Kobe's going to take the ball away from Nash's hands and vice versa.
11 - Mike Brown couldn't earn the respect of Lebron. What's he going to do with Dwight and Kobe?
I probably missed a lot more. Let's not even mention their enormous payroll and lack of draft picks or young talent outside of Dwight who is an UFA.
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Duhon isn't a quality player anymore, he's really tanked the last two years.
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Heat, Celtics, Thunder, possibly Spurs who else can better than the Lakers? That being said, they are vastly overrated. They are the slowest team. They have awful perimeter defense.
1 - Kobe and Artest are no longer elite defenders. They have no athleticism outside of Dwight.
2 - They have no legit 3 point shooting outside of Nash. Meeks is too awful at everything else to earn time on the court. Kobe is average.
3 - Dwight might average 5 blocks but he'll be in constant foul trouble dealing with Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Wade, Lebron, Rondo, Bradley, Green etc. who will blow by the Lakers back court.
4 - They have no athleticism outside of Dwight.
5 - They are old. Like the Celtics of the past few years, they may be extremely talented but old people miss games.
6 - Dwight was traded there against his will. The CBA ensures he won't sign an extension even if he wanted to sign there. Welcome to Dwightmare.
7 - Antwaun Jamison shot 40 percent from the field last year. Jordan Hill has legal and health issues. The rest of their bench is too abysmal to even talk about.
8 - Pau has been in steady decline as one would expect from a man of his age and limited athleticism.
9 - It's Kobe's team. Dwight wants it to be his team. Kobe wants the ball.
10 - Kobe's going to take the ball away from Nash's hands and vice versa.
11 - Mike Brown couldn't earn the respect of Lebron. What's he going to do with Dwight and Kobe?
I probably missed a lot more. Let's not even mention their enormous payroll and lack of draft picks or young talent outside of Dwight who is an UFA.
Thanks..glad someone agrees with me also. Everyone keeps on saying "on paper". Last I check, "on paper" doesnt win championships
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Heat, Celtics, Thunder, possibly Spurs who else can better than the Lakers? That being said, they are vastly overrated. They are the slowest team. They have awful perimeter defense.
1 - Kobe and Artest are no longer elite defenders. They have no athleticism outside of Dwight.
2 - They have no legit 3 point shooting outside of Nash. Meeks is too awful at everything else to earn time on the court. Kobe is average.
3 - Dwight might average 5 blocks but he'll be in constant foul trouble dealing with Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Wade, Lebron, Rondo, Bradley, Green etc. who will blow by the Lakers back court.
4 - They have no athleticism outside of Dwight.
5 - They are old. Like the Celtics of the past few years, they may be extremely talented but old people miss games.
6 - Dwight was traded there against his will. The CBA ensures he won't sign an extension even if he wanted to sign there. Welcome to Dwightmare.
7 - Antwaun Jamison shot 40 percent from the field last year. Jordan Hill has legal and health issues. The rest of their bench is too abysmal to even talk about.
8 - Pau has been in steady decline as one would expect from a man of his age and limited athleticism.
9 - It's Kobe's team. Dwight wants it to be his team. Kobe wants the ball.
10 - Kobe's going to take the ball away from Nash's hands and vice versa.
11 - Mike Brown couldn't earn the respect of Lebron. What's he going to do with Dwight and Kobe?
I probably missed a lot more. Let's not even mention their enormous payroll and lack of draft picks or young talent outside of Dwight who is an UFA.
Thanks..glad someone agrees with me also. Everyone keeps on saying "on paper". Last I check, "on paper" doesnt win championships
Well, when they haven't played any meaningful games yet, it's hard to go by anything else.
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I think the best "team" in LA is the Los Angeles Clippers and they'll prove it this season - my opinion.
DeAndre Jordan
Blake Griffin
Caron Butler
Jamaal Crawford
Chris Paul
Bench: Turiaf, Odom, Grant Hill, Matt Barnes, Jamaal Crawford (once Chauncey comes back),Willie Green & Eric Bledsoe.
They have a good starting lineup and added some very good veteran depth. I like what they did.
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6 - Dwight was traded there against his will. The CBA ensures he won't sign an extension even if he wanted to sign there. Welcome to Dwightmare.
There will be no "Dwightmare".
Howard may have been reticent to go to LA at one point, after Kobe had made some comment about it "will always be my team", or something to that affect, but it was surely fleeting. It was always more about his overwhelming desire to go to Brooklyn, not his disdain for LA. Howard may have, or may not have, wanted to be traded to LA at one point, but I can gaurantee he is happy there at the moment.
Mostly, Howard just didn't want to have the perception of following Shaq's career path. The comparisons really irritate him, primarily because Shaq never accepted him.
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This post seems like VERY wishful thinking. The Lakers were arguably a top 5 team last season (HEAT, Thunder, Celtics, Spurs ahead of them, maybe Pacers, Bulls if healthy). It is hard to see how they are any worse than they were last year. They had some of the same problems listed above. The only difference is that now they have Dwight Howard to compensate for plenty of their problems.
No NBA team is perfect and immense talent at the top of a rotation can overcome plenty of flaws. We could've come up with an 11 point list of weaknesses in the HEAT last year, some that the Pacers and Celtics exploited. And they still won the championship. The Lakers are a flawed team, but to think they aren't a top 5 team is a reach.
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LA has to be a top 5 team, at the moment, just due to Howard/Kobe.
I could see them struggling with health or lack of bench production.
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They should be a top team but they are bound to have troubles this year. Their downfall could be their second unit. Their bench struggled during the pre-season, not to mention they only have one proven scorer in Jamison. Jamison however is one of the biggest scrubs I've ever seen on the defensive end. Hill's a fantastic rebounder but that's just about it from him. Meeks is a three point shooter but that's just about it. Blake hasn't been anything more than mediocre in his two years as a Laker. Outside of that, who do they have? Earl Clark? Chris Duhon? They were filler players in the Dwight deal.
They really dropped the ball when they got rid of Lamar Odom. He gave them a great edge as their sixth man.
Kobe, Nash, and Pau are all players who are getting up there in age, and while I'm sure they can create quite a lethal offense, their growing defensive inefficiencies, especially with Nash, who was never a good defensive player, could seriously kill them. Can Howard seriously cover for them. In Orlando, Dwight actually had some defensive talent. Peaches, Lee, Redick, Gortat all were passable to borderline elite defensive players. Howard was a centerpiece but those guys did help give Orlando a defensive edge. The Lakers do not have the same luxury as Orlando did.
They'll be amongst the elite, but until they find energy players that match up with OKC, they aren't getting past the Thunder.
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I'd say the importance of depth is greatly overrated on this forum. Sure, it is nice to have, and nobody is hurt from having too many good players. But here is an interesting fact:
Game 7, Heat vs. Celtics -
How many players scored at all for the Celtics? 6
How many players scored at all for the HEAT? 6
Once again, not saying depth isn't important, and obviously we would've preferred to have more healthy and good players for Game 7 last season. But I'd be a little more concerned with the 40 minutes from Dwight, Kobe, and Pau than with the 8 minutes from Hill, Jamison, and Meeks.
How often has a depth build trumped a top heavy build in the NBA?
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They really dropped the ball when they got rid of Lamar Odom. He gave them a great edge as their sixth man.
You'd prefer Lamar Odom over Nash?
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I'd say the importance of depth is greatly overrated on this forum. Sure, it is nice to have, and nobody is hurt from having too many good players. But here is an interesting fact:
Game 7, Heat vs. Celtics -
How many players scored at all for the Celtics? 6
How many players scored at all for the HEAT? 6
Once again, not saying depth isn't important, and obviously we would've preferred to have more healthy and good players for Game 7 last season. But I'd be a little more concerned with the 40 minutes from Dwight, Kobe, and Pau than with the 8 minutes from Hill, Jamison, and Meeks.
How often has a depth build trumped a top heavy build in the NBA?
exactly. Top heavy teams win NBA championships, not deep ones. Look no further than the Spurs over the last 15 years to see this borne out. Spurs = winning titles when top heavy. Spurs = winning a lot of regular season games and losing early in the playoffs when a deep team. Now the all time great teams have both all time great players and a lot of depth, but you certainly don't need the depth to win the NBA title.
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Depth to me is most important concerning injury to a key player, as in who is gonna step up give a simular performance night after night.
FOr the Lakers to go ALL the WAY Kobe can't ever be sick or injuried more than a few games at a time. A breakdown at key game in the playoffs would be all she wrote.
He is gonna have to play alot of minutes, hard minutes for a guy his age , with no one who can even pull half his weight in point production. Nash is such a season injury just waiting to happen.
For many teams with older players , its more of a GAS MILEAGE race, who can reach the end of seasons with the least wear and tear on their players and the most gas left in the tank.
IMO OKC and the HEAT have clear advantage . OKC is all young and healthy and the Heat have the nuke powered James capable of running on 100% energy for 82 games non stop for the next 6 years. ;D ...and then go dancing after the game.
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How often has a depth build trumped a top heavy build in the NBA?
Well, I'd say it helped Boston against LA 5 years ago. Look how important Posey and PJ Brown were. Detroit clearly won with depth every time it's won the title. Dallas certainly didn't have the top heavy team against Miami. Houston was clearly a team that won with depth rather than being top heavy with great players. Heck, even when you look at the Lakers you can make a good argument that what made them truly elite was having Odom to bring off the bench. And look at Chicago's first three-peat team. Horace Grant was no superstar and rest of the supporting cast played pretty important roles in winning.
Talent can overcome depth, but even Miami last year needed some big plays from guys outside Bron, Wade and Bosh.
Mike
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6 - Dwight was traded there against his will. The CBA ensures he won't sign an extension even if he wanted to sign there. Welcome to Dwightmare.
There will be no "Dwightmare".
Howard may have been reticent to go to LA at one point, after Kobe had made some comment about it "will always be my team", or something to that affect, but it was surely fleeting. It was always more about his overwhelming desire to go to Brooklyn, not his disdain for LA. Howard may have, or may not have, wanted to be traded to LA at one point, but I can gaurantee he is happy there at the moment.
Mostly, Howard just didn't want to have the perception of following Shaq's career path. The comparisons really irritate him, primarily because Shaq never accepted him.
Of course there will be one. Dwight won't sign an extension and reporters will keep asking him.
Kobe when asked whose team it is said mine of course. Nash said Kobe's. Dwight said the "Lakers organization" and our team.
The Shaq comparisons will keep growing and growing if he stays in LA. I'm not sure he's looking forward to that.
I can't wait for when the Lakers start struggling and the blame game begins.
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How often has a depth build trumped a top heavy build in the NBA?
Well, I'd say it helped Boston against LA 5 years ago. Look how important Posey and PJ Brown were. Detroit clearly won with depth every time it's won the title. Dallas certainly didn't have the top heavy team against Miami. Houston was clearly a team that won with depth rather than being top heavy with great players. Heck, even when you look at the Lakers you can make a good argument that what made them truly elite was having Odom to bring off the bench. And look at Chicago's first three-peat team. Horace Grant was no superstar and rest of the supporting cast played pretty important roles in winning.
Talent can overcome depth, but even Miami last year needed some big plays from guys outside Bron, Wade and Bosh.
Mike
Well, I guess it depends how far down the roster you would consider someone to be "depth". Horace Grant wasn't a superstar, but he was the third best player on the team. The Lakers have Pau Gasol as their third best player, so I guess you'd say that they have awesome depth? When mentioning Miami, you only mention three guys. Steve Nash is the fourth best Laker.
I'd put Chicago and Miami on the top-heavy list and not on the depth list. If you count Miami as winning with depth because of contributions from more than three guys, and you count Chicago as winning with depth because of contributions from more than two guys, than the Lakers depth should be just fine. They have four potential Hall of Fame players (some past their prime but still great).
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Detroit clearly won with depth every time it's won the title.
The Bad Boy Pistons weren't a deep team. They had Isiah Thomas, Dumars, Rodman, all HOFers. Heck, Isiah-Dumars is arguably the best back-court in NBA history. Similarly, the 2004 team wasn't terribly deep ... Ben Wallace, Chauncey, Prince, and Rip were the driving forces there. All starters. Not that they didn't have a good bench, but their starters won that championship (Wallace is an EXTREMELY underrated player. He was a beast, he just didn't score a lot).
Houston was clearly a team that won with depth rather than being top heavy with great players.
Wrong. Ever heard of Hakeem Olajuwon? Top all-time player? Who else was on those teams of worth besides Horry and Cassell? Hakeem is why they won, they had one of the best players in the history of the sport.
And look at Chicago's first three-peat team. Horace Grant was no superstar and rest of the supporting cast played pretty important roles in winning.
Uh ... Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan.
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Detroit clearly won with depth every time it's won the title.
The Bad Boy Pistons weren't a deep team. They had Isiah Thomas, Dumars, Rodman, all HOFers. Heck, Isiah-Dumars is arguably the best back-court in NBA history. Similarly, the 2004 team wasn't terribly deep ... Ben Wallace, Chauncey, Prince, and Rip were the driving forces there. All starters. Not that they didn't have a good bench, but their starters won that championship (Wallace is an EXTREMELY underrated player. He was a beast, he just didn't score a lot).
Houston was clearly a team that won with depth rather than being top heavy with great players.
Wrong. Ever heard of Hakeem Olajuwon? Top all-time player? Who else was on those teams of worth besides Horry and Cassell? Hakeem is why they won, they had one of the best players in the history of the sport.
And look at Chicago's first three-peat team. Horace Grant was no superstar and rest of the supporting cast played pretty important roles in winning.
Uh ... Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan.
Yeah, it's really not a coincidence that Jordan won three titles, took two years off, came back and won three titles again (with an entirely different supporting cast other than Pippen). All the depth Chicago needed was 3 (Michael, Scottie, and one All-Star caliber big man). The other guys were proven to be interchangeable parts.
And when Hakeem won his titles, only one team in the NBA had multiple Hall of Famers (Utah had two). Someone had to win the title that year. I wouldn't count that as a triumph of depth over top-heavy. I'd count it as there being no top-heavy teams. Now, Los Angeles has potentially 4 Hall of Famers, Boston has potentially 4, San Antonio has potentially 3, Miami has potentially 3.
Dallas and Detroit, sure, but that's far more the exception than the rule. And even those included one of the great individual playoff performances ever (Dirk's playoff run).
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The Bad Boy Pistons weren't a deep team.
James Edwards? Mark Aguire? John Salley? What the heck do you people mean by depth vs. top heavy? When Jordan won his championships, he did it with centers significantly better than Joel Freakin' Anthony.
Mike
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The Bad Boy Pistons weren't a deep team.
James Edwards? Mark Aguire? John Salley? What the heck do you people mean by depth vs. top heavy? When Jordan won his championships, he did it with centers significantly better than Joel Freakin' Anthony.
Mike
I'd consider the Bad Boy Pistons to be a deep team, one of the deepest in history, in fact and concede that one.
Jordan's Bulls didn't win because of depth. Replace his bench during any of those years with any other bench in the NBA and he'd still have 6 titles.
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The Bad Boy Pistons weren't a deep team.
James Edwards? Mark Aguire? John Salley? What the heck do you people mean by depth vs. top heavy? When Jordan won his championships, he did it with centers significantly better than Joel Freakin' Anthony.
Mike
Of course the Bad Boy Pistons were deep and they had 3 HOFers, which is why they are one of the all time great teams. Depth and Top Heavy Talent = All Time Great Team. But pretty much every champion since them has been won by a team that was top heavy i.e. reliant on 2 or 3 players at the top and where the players after that don't matter much. There are always exceptions, but by and large NBA champions are top heavy and their depth doesn't matter.
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Yogi, you make some very good points but also some I disagree with.
1 - Kobe and Artest are no longer elite defenders. They have no athleticism outside of Dwight.
True, though Gasol is still a very good defender. Remember that the Magic were an elite defensive team in spite of the fact that Howard was the only person actually playing defense. The evidence suggests that, like Lebron James, you could put Howard on any team in the NBA and they would become above average defensively.
2 - They have no legit 3 point shooting outside of Nash. Meeks is too awful at everything else to earn time on the court. Kobe is average.
Their shooting is definitely going to be their biggest problem. I bet that they acquire a 3-point specialist during the season.
5 - They are old. Like the Celtics of the past few years, they may be extremely talented but old people miss games.
Old people also tend to kick ass in the playoffs.
6 - Dwight was traded there against his will. The CBA ensures he won't sign an extension even if he wanted to sign there. Welcome to Dwightmare.
I think you're off base with this. They will make it a huge priority to resign him and make him their next franchise player. I think he'll do it.
9 - It's Kobe's team. Dwight wants it to be his team. Kobe wants the ball.
It's Nash's team. Whatever poison Kobe injects, we will see, but Dwight is the third largest personality on the team. Dwight wants to win and he wants to be liked. He will get both without having to take over.
10 - Kobe's going to take the ball away from Nash's hands and vice versa.
This is bang-on. Kobe is the Carmelo to Howard-Nash's Lin-Chandler bromance. Best thing Kobe could do for the team is take spot up two-pointers and work on his defense. He will not do that.
11 - Mike Brown couldn't earn the respect of Lebron. What's he going to do with Dwight and Kobe?
The most important relationship for Mike Brown is his relationship with Nash. Kobe's going to do what Kobe's going to do. Dwight will love playing with a productive Nash. Keep those two happy, Pau will be happy, Kobe will have to suck it up.
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On the court...Howard is a clearly inferior offensive player compared to Bynum, Nash is only Steve Nash when he's dominating the ball on offense, their bench looks to be the worst of any serious title contender and Kobe has obviously (to anyone not blinded by his legacy) been declining for several years and there's no reason to think that won't continue.
Mike
Funny...that's most of the same reasons why people have underestimated Boston every year, yet we have been consistently competitive every season despite facing tough challenges.
People use the age argument against Nash and Kobe but there is a potential flaw in that logic - Nash was old last season, yet he still was one of the best pure PG's in the league and remained incredibly durable. Every year people have been talking about Kobe being older, yet last season he still averaged what...close to 30 PPG?
likewise both Nash and Kobe (like Pierce and Rondo) are knows for being absolute warriors. They will play through injuries that would have 90% of other guys sidelined, and they will continue to put up numbers.
Gasol is soft as hell, but he's big and he's skilled. He's a great post-up big man who can shoot well from outside, he can block shots, he's an outstanding passer, a very good rebounder, and he has a huge size advantage against most guys he matches up with. You want to see Bass or Sullinger try to defend a 7'0" and 260lb Gasol? Good luck with that.
Howard has had injuries recently and is a legit weakness potentially because he is:
1. Emotionally / mentally weak
2. Not tough (i.e. won't play through injuries)
3. Prone to.doing dumb stuff (stupid fouls, etc)
4. Prone to injury
Problem is Bynum had all those same problems, yet LA were still a pretty good team with him put there.
Downside for LA is that Howard is a worse offensive player. Look at Howard's first preseason game with LA - it seems like he didn't score a single point that wasn't on a dunk. I also feel its easy to get into Dwights game - he gets frustrated VERY easillu, and nobody has the potential to frustrate bigs like pur trio of Garnett, Collins and Milicic. They are all guys who are not afraid of playing rough, and Howard has traditionally triggled to keep his cool against us as is.
MWP is more or les a liability on offence for the Lakers, bit he's still a threat. He's a dirty player who's not afraid to commit the harshest, dirtiest flagrant fouls and he does still play strong defense against Pierce. He has the potential to injure an opposing player every night, and if he takes Pierce out of the game it will hurt us. Lucky we have more weapons this year, so if he's taken out we can have other guys step up.
I think LA are going to be exceptional defensively once they find chemistry, but I think they will be not as great offensively.
All this depends on them staying healthy. Jamison has been utter garbage so far in preseason and has been declining lately (plus he plays no defense), Meeks hasn't been much better and isn't that great regardless, Blake is horrible...hill may be their most effective guy off the bench, but he's no all star.
Any of their top 4 guys go down and they are probably gonna be average. Two of those guys go down and they will struggle to win games.
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I'd say the importance of depth is greatly overrated on this forum. Sure, it is nice to have, and nobody is hurt from having too many good players. But here is an interesting fact:
Game 7, Heat vs. Celtics -
How many players scored at all for the Celtics? 6
How many players scored at all for the HEAT? 6
Once again, not saying depth isn't important, and obviously we would've preferred to have more healthy and good players for Game 7 last season. But I'd be a little more concerned with the 40 minutes from Dwight, Kobe, and Pau than with the 8 minutes from Hill, Jamison, and Meeks.
How often has a depth build trumped a top heavy build in the NBA?
You think that was by design?
You really think Doc wouldn't have loved the opportunity to play 8 quality, productive players in that series? We had 6 guys score because after those 6 guys our next best playerwwas...Keeyon Dooling. Or Marquis Daniels...take your pick.
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I'd say the importance of depth is greatly overrated on this forum. Sure, it is nice to have, and nobody is hurt from having too many good players. But here is an interesting fact:
Game 7, Heat vs. Celtics -
How many players scored at all for the Celtics? 6
How many players scored at all for the HEAT? 6
Once again, not saying depth isn't important, and obviously we would've preferred to have more healthy and good players for Game 7 last season. But I'd be a little more concerned with the 40 minutes from Dwight, Kobe, and Pau than with the 8 minutes from Hill, Jamison, and Meeks.
How often has a depth build trumped a top heavy build in the NBA?
You think that was by design?
You really think Doc wouldn't have loved the opportunity to play 8 quality, productive players in that series? We had 6 guys score because after those 6 guys our next best playerwwas...Keeyon Dooling. Or Marquis Daniels...take your pick.
And yet it was still us in the Eastern Finals with the HEAT, while the 76ers sat at home. It'd be nice if we had a guy like Thaddeus Young off the bench last year, or Lou Williams, or even Lavoy Allen. But we played in the Conference Finals and they didn't because we have Rondo, KG, and Paul and they don't. Similarly, the Lakers will have no problem upending deeper teams like the Nuggets, Jazz, etc...
The Pacers were deeper than the HEAT last year. The HEAT won.
The 76ers were deeper than the Celtics last year. The Celtics won.
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I'm not in love with the Laker bench but this is by far a better bench than they had last year. Barnes/McRoberts/Kopono are okay players but Meeks/Jamison are significant upgrades. Add in the boost to their starting 5 and it makes them a much better team than last year. They had the 6th best record last season so it stands to reason they would be a top 5 team at least unless other teams got better too, which most didn't. We are a rare exception. Certainly the Spurs are a year older and made no moves. The Thunder makes almost no moves. Chicago dropped and the Pacers probably did too. I think top 5 is very accurate to describe what the Lakers are.
I do think the Lakers will have some issues against faster teams and specifically teams with faster point guards. Nash has always been a wet paper towel on defense and as he ages it only gets worse. Blake isn't much better and Duhon isn't NBA caliber anymore. They will have to put Kobe on the dominant opposing guards and even that won't necessarily work. It will also tire kobe out. They would have been smart to get someone like Brandon Rush or AAron Afflalo or even a Courtney Lee type guy to slow down the Westbrooks and Chris Pauls and Ty Lawsons in the West. Howard will certainly help but in transition the Lakers will have big problems.
Anyway I have the Lakers as a top 4 team along with the defending conference champions and the Celtics.
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Lakers are the team to beat in the NBA because they have 4 top 20 players in their starting lineup.
The only chance other teams have will require one of the following:
1. Injury
2. Fatigue
3. Chemistry mayhem
Our 3 best players last year were 34, 33, and 25. The Lakers Big 4 are 38, 34, 32 and 26. There is no reason to feel assured that an injury will occur or age will catch up to them. There is reason to hope that fatigue will play a role, but I don't see the decline of Kobe or Pau. I also see Nash as close to what he has always been. Dwight may have back issues, but if he doesn't, I shudder to think what he'll do with this cast around him. Ugh!
I hope more than anything that either chemistry is terrible or fatigue gets the better of them.
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Is Nash really top 20?
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Is Nash really top 20?
Of course these rankings are subjective, but Nash was ranked #19 by ESPN in the rankings they did about a month ago.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8419506/2012-nba-player-rankings-16-20
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Heat, Celtics, Thunder, possibly Spurs who else can better than the Lakers? That being said, they are vastly overrated. They are the slowest team. They have awful perimeter defense.
1 - Kobe and Artest are no longer elite defenders. They have no athleticism outside of Dwight.
2 - They have no legit 3 point shooting outside of Nash. Meeks is too awful at everything else to earn time on the court. Kobe is average.
3 - Dwight might average 5 blocks but he'll be in constant foul trouble dealing with Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Wade, Lebron, Rondo, Bradley, Green etc. who will blow by the Lakers back court.
4 - They have no athleticism outside of Dwight.
5 - They are old. Like the Celtics of the past few years, they may be extremely talented but old people miss games.
6 - Dwight was traded there against his will. The CBA ensures he won't sign an extension even if he wanted to sign there. Welcome to Dwightmare.
7 - Antwaun Jamison shot 40 percent from the field last year. Jordan Hill has legal and health issues. The rest of their bench is too abysmal to even talk about.
8 - Pau has been in steady decline as one would expect from a man of his age and limited athleticism.
9 - It's Kobe's team. Dwight wants it to be his team. Kobe wants the ball.
10 - Kobe's going to take the ball away from Nash's hands and vice versa.
11 - Mike Brown couldn't earn the respect of Lebron. What's he going to do with Dwight and Kobe?
I probably missed a lot more. Let's not even mention their enormous payroll and lack of draft picks or young talent outside of Dwight who is an UFA.
Thanks..glad someone agrees with me also. Everyone keeps on saying "on paper". Last I check, "on paper" doesnt win championships
Happened last year. They are a top 5 team. But they won't make the Finals
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I don't know if they're top 5 or not, but I want to go on record before the preseason is over (and before the game between them and the Clippers tonight) and say that I think the Clippers will be a better team than the Lakers this year. If everything falls in place for the Clippers, they will be a force to be reckoned with. I like their additions of Odom, Jamaal Crawford, and to a lesser extent Grant Hill. Plus, they're getting Chauncey back, and they've got a year of seasoning and playoff experience under their belts. They're my pick for surprise team, even though it's not like they're not on people's radar.
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I wrote this on another thread. I honestly see them as a team that's gonna fall apart
1. Nash is still the worst defensive point guard in the league, and him getting older doesn't help that
2. Kobe and Dwight's personalities don't mesh
3. Kobe's on the decline
They might get to the Western Conference Finals just based off of their talent, but no way they're going to the Finals
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over rated
nuff said
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Not the greatest pre-season ive ever seen thats for sure.
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They could win 73 games. Preseason means nothing. They are ridiculous on paper. Just sickeningly good.
#1 - They have a top 4 player... the best big man in the world in Dwight Howard. A defensive beast
#2 - I have Pau Gasol as a top 3 or 4 big man in the game behind Dwight... maybe Kevin Love. Pau is supremely underrated.
#3 - Prob still the #1 or #2 SG in the world in Kobe
#4 - Top 3 distributor and probably the best shooter in the world in Nash
... + some extra pests in Jamison and Peace.
Biggest weakness is their coaching. They probably could have won last year if used their massive size advantage.
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Not the greatest pre-season ive ever seen thats for sure.
I hate to bring this up, but they went winless during the '09 and '10 preseasons (I think).
Just saying.
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Not the greatest pre-season ive ever seen thats for sure.
I hate to bring this up, but they went winless during the '09 and '10 preseasons (I think).
Just saying.
I know its not an indicator of what the overall result is going to be but everyone looked pretty disinterested in preseason for them which will probably mean a slow start.
We had a slow start last year and almost made the finals.
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They could win 73 games. Preseason means nothing. They are ridiculous on paper. Just sickeningly good.
I don't think LA could post a big W-L record in the regular season with such a weak supporting cast. Better built for the playoffs than the regular season.
Too much reliance on four guys to play at a high level every night (plus play big minutes almost every night) to rack up regular season wins at a high clip. Need better depth.
I thought their 2009 team had a legitimate shot at 70+ wins. Came up short though.
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Edit: I think they'll be hard pressed to win 60 games with that supporting cast.
I'd expect the Lakers to be more in the mid to high 50s win range.
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Well, the Lakers need to get Kobe healthy first....
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Sorry, but just can't judge anything by pre-season.
Lakers have a load of talent, and ton of experience. Yes, they are relatively old....but so were Pierce and KG last year, and they along with Rondo almost got us to the Finals. If healthy, I think the Lakers will be very good this year (as much as it pains me to say it...).
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I don't see LA finishing any better than a 4th seed in the West. The two biggest reasons being their horrid bench which will cost them leads and their head coach. Mike Brown doesn't know how to run a proper offense.
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Not the greatest pre-season ive ever seen thats for sure.
I hate to bring this up, but they went winless during the '09 and '10 preseasons (I think).
Just saying.
That's not true.
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Pre-season means nothing really. It's a time for the vets to get back into their groove, rookies to get the feel of full-fledged, real deal NBA talent (not just summer league scraps), and guys trying to make the team an honest chance to showcase themselves. The vets aren't going at 100 mph either during these games. They're just trying to get themselves back in order so they can be ready to go for the season.
LAL will be a good team this season, there's no way around it. Whether they win it all or not? Nobody can say for sure, but they have a good shot. Just have to be realistic about things. They will more than likely finish with a top 4 seed, if not a top 3 and they will probably at the very least make the conference finals if I had to make a guess. The playoffs are a funny beast, you can't fully predict who is going to win this round, who is going to win that round.
All I know is, the Lakers will make some noise this year, you can't say they wont, they'll be one of the last few teams standing, even if we are obligated to hate them just because we are Celtics fans.
Of course, this is all barring some catastrophe like DH killing his back, Kobe or Nash having a season ending injury. If they have the bulk of their roster and their main guys intact come playoff time, they will be a serious threat.
This is just my 2 cents and obviously only time will tell to see how everything truly plays out.
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The lakers are easily a top 5 team. Regardless of their injuries, preseason record means nothing
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They could win 73 games. Preseason means nothing. They are ridiculous on paper. Just sickeningly good.
Nobody is winning 70+ games again. Atleast not until the league goes through another stretch of weak talent like it did in the mid to late 90s. The only reason why the Bulls were able to do it was because the league was just that weak. I'm not condoning anything I think the 96 Bulls are one of the best teams of all time, but they were aided by the lack of talent the league had. Considering how many talented teams there are now compared to 1996, I think 70 is out of reach for anyone.
60+ is a more realistic target. The 2008 Celtics did as well as they did because they had one of the best defenses the league had seen in years.
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on paper
i see a big man with back problems
a ball hog
and steve hash brown
why yall think this team is that team?
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I know its just one game but got to say I TOLD YOU SO!!!! But seriously, this is what u going to get. Howard with foul trouble, Artest out of it, Nash is old, Kobe body is breaking down, and no bench. I be surprise they win 55-60 games
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it is going to take them some time to figure out how to play together...you have 3 alpha males who are used to being the man...Throw in an alpha female in gasol...things will be tough
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Portland will beat them tonight and if they do, LA will want mike brown's head
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Too much inside game!! Help!!
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Too much inside game!! Help!!
Lol!!!!
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Running an offense based around big/forward passing is the best news for Lakers haters. Keep the ball out of Nash's hands more please Mike Brown ;D
Mike Brown is the forgotten weak link in all the Lakers talk this year.
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This team completely changed their DNA this summer. It is going to take them a bit to learn how to play together, and figure out how to use their talents. But I still expect them to be the best team in the West.
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looks like they are gonna go 81-1.
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This team completely changed their DNA this summer. It is going to take them a bit to learn how to play together, and figure out how to use their talents. But I still expect them to be the best team in the West.
They won't be the best team in the west if they use Nash as a glorified Steve Blake standing in the corner.
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This team completely changed their DNA this summer. It is going to take them a bit to learn how to play together, and figure out how to use their talents. But I still expect them to be the best team in the West.
They won't be the best team in the west if they use Nash as a glorified Steve Blake standing in the corner.
I agree. But that is part of the learning curve. I don't expect him to be locked out of the offense for long.
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This team completely changed their DNA this summer. It is going to take them a bit to learn how to play together, and figure out how to use their talents. But I still expect them to be the best team in the West.
They won't be the best team in the west if they use Nash as a glorified Steve Blake standing in the corner.
I agree. But that is part of the learning curve. I don't expect him to be locked out of the offense for long.
They are going to have to change the scheme then. As is now, he will keep doing what he did last night.
Particularly when your bench is so bad, you need to allow Nash to do what he does: make players better.
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This team completely changed their DNA this summer. It is going to take them a bit to learn how to play together, and figure out how to use their talents. But I still expect them to be the best team in the West.
They won't be the best team in the west if they use Nash as a glorified Steve Blake standing in the corner.
I agree. But that is part of the learning curve. I don't expect him to be locked out of the offense for long.
Howard has to get right as well, he wasn't as active as usual last night.
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Even though I think last night was just growing pains, Dallas did expose some potential problems for the Lakers.
1.They can't handle speedy point guards. Darren Collison torched Nash. Can't imagine what Rondo, Westbrook, or Paul are going to do to them.
2.The Mavericks had some inside muscle. Wright and Brand did a nice job covering Gasol and Howard even if they put up decent numbers. They got up in their face and weren't afraid of making contact.
The most telling aspect of last night's game was that the Lakers didn't lose to someone that was contender-good, they lost to a heavily undermanned, DIRK-less Mavericks. Not only that, but it was a Mavericks team that was also trying to incorporate all of its new players.
The Lakers are going to get better, but I would hold on the whole, "Obvious Western Conference Champs" talk. Especially with Metta World Peace at the 3 and the bench being pretty weak.
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This team completely changed their DNA this summer. It is going to take them a bit to learn how to play together, and figure out how to use their talents. But I still expect them to be the best team in the West.
They won't be the best team in the west if they use Nash as a glorified Steve Blake standing in the corner.
I agree. But that is part of the learning curve. I don't expect him to be locked out of the offense for long.
Howard has to get right as well, he wasn't as active as usual last night.
That's also expected. Not only is it a new team, but he missed most of the preseason, coming back from his injury.
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Two things i see that could doom them:
1. Using Kobe as the primary on offense rather than using Nash/Gasol as the basis
2. If Dwight actually has long term damage in his back injury that limits his mobility
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looks like they are gonna go 81-1.
Just like the Celtics.
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Last year's Lakers were not a great team. They then replaced Bynum with Howard. That's an upgrade, but not nearly as big as idiot pundits assumed. They then replaced Ramon Sessions with Steve Nash. That's a big upgrade, but only if you let Steve Nash be Steve Nash and Steve Nash only became "Steve Nash" when he went to Phoenix and started playing that D'Antoni style. Take him out of that system and you've got an old, small point guard who can score but not defend worth a lick.
Mike
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Two things i see that could doom them:
1. Using Kobe as the primary on offense rather than using Nash/Gasol as the basis
2. If Dwight actually has long term damage in his back injury that limits his mobility
3. Keeping Mike Brown as coach
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Wow. 0-10 including the pre-season. Not saying its panic time in laker land (not even with Nash already getting hurt), but I can definitely say they have underwhelmed. Especially since they've lost to two non-contenders (currently, we'll see with Dallas).
Old guys + bad bench = This could end badly.
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gotta say I thought they'd better... was thinking 65+ wins, now wondering if they'll get HCA in the 1st round...
maybe the West is still wide open?
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So far I'm impressed with Howards recovery from back surgery. LA unloaded a young man Bynum that needs TWO knee replacments , if he were the average person walking the street and goes to the doctor , that is what he would be facing.
Nash is TOO old and frail. He gets clobbered / hobbled every game it seems. One of these days he an't getting up or they will carry him off the court. He is so scronnie looking, the wind might break him. When NASH is not on the court , the Lakers look sorta "LOST"
Kobe 's age is showing, he is still better than 90% of the people playing the game .
LA can clobber ANY TEAM any time FOR ONE GAME....but I just don't think they can prevail in a long drawn out series with the younger athletic HEAT and endless energy James.
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looks like they are gonna go 81-1.
Looks like they are gonna go 80-2.
If this continues, they need to fire that hack coach. That team has too much talent to struggle like this.
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looks like they are gonna go 81-1.
Looks like they are gonna go 80-2.
If this continues, they need to fire that hack coach. That team has too much talent to struggle like this.
Brown needs to go so they can bring in someone that
A) knows what their doing
and
B) can maximize the talent the Lakers have. Brown is not that guy.
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Told u guys!!! This team might win 55-60 games if they lucky. Injuries already hitting them with Nash going out
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looks like they are gonna go 81-1.
Looks like they are gonna go 80-2.
If this continues, they need to fire that hack coach. That team has too much talent to struggle like this.
Brown needs to go so they can bring in someone that
A) knows what their doing
and
B) can maximize the talent the Lakers have. Brown is not that guy.
sssshhhshh ;D....don't say this too loud ...we want Brown to stay .
Brown is under the gun , looking straight down the barrel, no banner this year and he is most likely toast.... Kobe has maybe 1 great year left and two lesser ones possibly...LA would have West's neck it he keeps Mike Brown and no Championship this year. Maybe if Brown takes them to the finals and loses game 7 , they give him a reprieve, thats about it.
no way they lose to the CLippers... LAKERS will kicks their tails. :-X
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We haven't come close to seeing who the Lakers will be. They have a new nucleus and it will take time. Unfortunately, I am far from convinced that they won't be a contender.
Does anyone think there is a legit chance that DH enters into free agency and signs elewhere (Dallas perhaps)?
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Look, they aren't going to suck, but they are slow. They are very slow . . . and old.
That what teams need to take advantage of to try to beat them. Portland did it. Dallas did it.
And, yeah, Kobe has to learn to play off the ball more. Paul Pierce learned to do it, and I think Kobe probably can too. The Truth was a gunner as well before this team was put together.
Still, though, that's a slow basketball team.
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so... one more lost and we are the lakers...nice
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Ok so when are the Lakers going to set the world on fire? Nash or not the Lakers are too old.
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Orlando hacked Dwight before the lakers pg made it over halfway. Dwight misses 12 free throws and the lakers lose the game. Hilarious.
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The Lakers, right now, are a poorly constructed team.
They have no bench, so they are overly reliant on their three best players. Unfortunately, at least one of those players doesn't really fit with the others (Pau).
In a point guard driven league, they are also without a point guard. Even when Nash comes back, they still won't have any ability to defend opposing point guards.
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Gasol is not looking very good out there. Seems run down with no lift, and D'Antoni seems to like Jamison better out there.
If it didn't risk accidentally making the Lakers better, I'd love to see us make a run at Jordan Hill. A much better fit for our system than D'Antoni's.
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I think they are in worse trouble than us....yes, they are missing Nash, but they really don't look good - and they've had a lot of home games. They were expected to contend with and likely beat OKC for the Western crown, whereas much less expected of us. Still very early, but they have some big issues to solve....which doesn't make me unhappy.
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I can't say they're in worse trouble because they have Howard, even if this current team doesn't ever "work" they can rebuild/retool around an MVP caliber young center.
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They now got Howard , for nothing, by dumping a crippled player , with a poor team attitude and TWO bad legs for the best Center in the NBA ? AS always the Lakers are allowed to pull off stunts like this. If it had been the Celtics who had Bynum in the shape he was in , we couldn't have got JO Neal as trade for him much less Howard.
Lakers simply decide what player they want , and then force their will to get that player EVEN if he really didn't want to be there.
Lakers still rely on Kobe when it comes down to it. Mentally is is 1000X tuffer than our Jeff Green. He can carry the team pretty much anytime he chooses. At least for this year and maybe next.
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I can't say they're in worse trouble because they have Howard, even if this current team doesn't ever "work" they can rebuild/retool around an MVP caliber young center.
Yeah, at some point they have to get wise and just try to build a more talented version of what Howard had with the Magic (i.e. a lot of shooters and a couple of penetrating playmakers who are also shooters).
When you have a center like Howard, you're really wasting your best asset if you don't just focus on making a team that's really strong on defense and shot happy from three on the other end. Howard's going to get a lot of the rebounds and slam them home, and he can anchor a very stingy defense.
The Magic game plan with Howard and SVG was a solid blueprint to success. That's how they reached the Finals (that, and KG's knee). They just got derailed because a lot of their key players got old, management tried too hard to tinker with a good thing, and Howard's impending free agency became a huge distraction.
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I just wanted to give a little bump to the "Misery Loves Company" thread.
9 and 11 right now for the Lakers. Anyone still think they'll get 70? How many coaches will they have to go through this year to find the right one for their roster? How much will Stevie and Pau help? Are they "what they are," or are they better than what they are?
Ah, misery enjoys company.
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I just wanted to give a little bump to the "Misery Loves Company" thread.
9 and 11 right now for the Lakers. Anyone still think they'll get 70? How many coaches will they have to go through this year to find the right one for their roster? How much will Stevie and Pau help? Are they "what they are," or are they better than what they are?
Ah, misery enjoys company.
Lakers fans must be ready to jump off a cliff after last nights drubbing handed out by the Thunder. It was no where near as close as the score. Durrant and Westbrook destroyed /broke the back of the Lakers like a rotten twigg. At least we almost won a game we should have won .
What would have drove me nuts if I was a LA fan was watching Howard playing "GOOFY" ball...goinf though the motions and cashing a BIG OL paycheck...hAAA! sorta like the guy they dumped
Howards easy going ...ah lazy attitude ... here dudes lets role a doobie look is infectious to the lakers , they looked "STONED". Only LA's Meeks seemed to think the game was worth playing.
All I can say ...is all that smiling , laughing (while they are getting their tail kicked) D'Antoni , Howard and few others were doing is not going to sit well with LA fans... ;D I swear the coach and Howard were high.
They will be better with Nash and Gasol healthy , but SOmehow I just don't think they can overcome OKC and the Spurs in the West .
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I just wanted to give a little bump to the "Misery Loves Company" thread.
9 and 11 right now for the Lakers. Anyone still think they'll get 70? How many coaches will they have to go through this year to find the right one for their roster? How much will Stevie and Pau help? Are they "what they are," or are they better than what they are?
Ah, misery enjoys company.
I think Steve will help alot, but I question his ability to stay healthy at this point. That's why i wasen't to worried when they signed him, he doesn't have alot of miles left.
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I'll be satisfied only after they are eliminated from the playoffs. If they turn it around this lull only makes the end harder to bear.
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Couple of things:
The Boston Celtics are also not a top 5 team
I hate the Lakers, but you do have to acknowledge they were without Nash and Pau last night.
Howard is still a clown and I bet Kobe hates him.
The biggest difference between the Lakers and Celtics is their roster is dysfunctional whereas the Celtics roster is just not good enough.
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My top five teams = Miami, Boston, Oklahoma, LA Lakers and Memphis.
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My top five teams = Miami, Boston, Oklahoma, LA Lakers and Memphis.
Yeah this is pretty much how I feel.
Haven't watched the Grizz a ton this year so may substitute Spurs with them
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are the Knicks not a top five team at the moment? ???
I would think the Spurs are in the top five?
Boston and LA are outside the top five , looking in.
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My top five teams = Miami, Boston, Oklahoma, LA Lakers and Memphis.
I would agree. The first four were certainly the ones that I considered the top contenders going into the season. I don't think anything has happened yet to drop either the Lakers or the Celtics out of that group.
I think that LAC, San Antonio, and New York could end up being in the conversation as well.
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Glad to see my post is still going!! Try and tell u guys. Hey, i got to gloat a little. I know its still waaaay to early but I doubt this team gets by the 2nd round.
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Glad to see my post is still going!! Try and tell u guys. Hey, i got to gloat a little. I know its still waaaay to early but I doubt this team gets by the 2nd round.
If they continue to play the way they've been playing, yes. In fact, I'm not even sure they'd get past the first round the way they're playing.
OKC, Memphis, San Antonio, and LAC are all playing much better than the Lakers. Continuity can be very useful (barring any injuries).
BUT, its still a long season. It's not too late for the Lakers just like it's not too late for the Celtics to find their groove. Even though I think the Celtics are in less trouble than the Lakers are, both teams have the talent to be much better than their record indicates.
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Couple of things:
The Boston Celtics are also not a top 5 team
I hate the Lakers, but you do have to acknowledge they were without Nash and Paul last night.
Howard is still a clown and I bet Kobe hates him.
The biggest difference between the Lakers and Celtics is their roster is dysfunctional whereas the Celtics roster is just not good enough.
Who knows? We may not be good enough to beat the Heat in a seven game series. There may not be any team in the league that is when the playoffs roll around. But, I do think that
we would have to be put in the category of one of the four or five teams who have the best shot at upsetting them.
Talent wise, we have one of the best top 3 player combinations in the league. After that we have a solid four through ten. Jeff Green looks like he's starting to come around. Terry's in a slump, but he'll snap out of it.
Our talent is there, we just need to start finding our groove, and we'll be back where we ought to be as a top contender.
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Enjoyed watching LA destroyed at the hands of the JAZZ in LA ....HEE HEE HEE ;D
LA ...TOP JIVE TEAM
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Enjoyed watching LA destroyed at the hands of the JAZZ in LA ....HEE HEE HEE ;D
LA ...TOP JIVE TEAM
Well, they can still get to 70 wins.
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Couple of things:
The Boston Celtics are also not a top 5 team
I hate the Lakers, but you do have to acknowledge they were without Nash and Paul last night.
Howard is still a clown and I bet Kobe hates him.
The biggest difference between the Lakers and Celtics is their roster is dysfunctional whereas the Celtics roster is just not good enough.
Who knows? We may not be good enough to beat the Heat in a seven game series. There may not be any team in the league that is when the playoffs roll around. But, I do think that
we would have to be put in the category of one of the four or five teams who have the best shot at upsetting them.
Talent wise, we have one of the best top 3 player combinations in the league. After that we have a solid four through ten. Jeff Green looks like he's starting to come around. Terry's in a slump, but he'll snap out of it.
Our talent is there, we just need to start finding our groove, and we'll be back where we ought to be as a top contender.
I would go as far to say one of the top 3 teams with a good shot at beating them
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The Lakers lose again, this time in Cleveland. Kyrie Irving is the real deal. Kobe with 16 baskets on 28 shots, his teammates with 15 baskets on 37 shots. The Lakers in crunch time were totally clueless on defense, allowing cutters easy layups.
The Lakers 13 losses include two to Utah, one to Dallas and Indy, all around .500, and then losses to bottom dwellers Cleveland, Sacto, Portland, and Orlando. Trouble in paradise is quite fun to watch.
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I know they have injuries, but the dysfunction on this team is hysterical. How much do you think Kobe hates Dwight and vice versa? And where does that nutjob Ron Artest fit into all of this? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. The Lakers losing to Cleveland makes me feel oh so good.
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(http://stk.dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Uncle-Drew.png)
These lakers dont practise the fundamentals no more.
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lol...I still believe Lakers will be one of the final teams standing...they won't make it out of the west, but I still believe they'll get better from what we've seen.
But it is STILL funny to see them struggle, as always.
Note to Kobe: Give it up...let it go...drop that rock, Kobe. Go ahead...it is ok.
You'd better NOW, because when Nash gets back, and he's D'Antoni's prodigy....
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Wow. They just lost to Cleveland of all teams. I realize they are without Nash and Gasol but this has gone from possibly troubling to VERY troubling. Gasol and Nash don't help what the Lakers are struggling with the most- defense.
Maybe we should have learned from the big three era that relying on old guys is a big risk, even if you do have a young star to play beside them.
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Just no depth to their roster at all. They have 2 high level players with Kobe/Dwight and then nothing.
Duhon/MWP/Hill/Jamison/Meeks are the other 5 players in D'Antoni's major minute rotation.
That's one majorly ugly supporting cast.
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with the celtics, while they struggled early at least it looks like they are headed in the right direction.
The Lakers dont look like they have improved at all and now are 9-12 !!
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Just no depth to their roster at all. They have 2 high level players with Kobe/Dwight and then nothing.
Duhon/MWP/Hill/Jamison/Meeks are the other 5 players in D'Antoni's major minute rotation.
That's one majorly ugly supporting cast.
Not just an ugly supporting cast -- but a supporting cast that doesn't fit well together at all.
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They should have hired Stan Van Gundy.
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They should have hired Stan Van Gundy.
One problem: Dwight Howard.
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Just no depth to their roster at all. They have 2 high level players with Kobe/Dwight and then nothing.
Duhon/MWP/Hill/Jamison/Meeks are the other 5 players in D'Antoni's major minute rotation.
That's one majorly ugly supporting cast.
Not just an ugly supporting cast -- but a supporting cast that doesn't fit well together at all.
Yeah Blaker/Nash if they can come back will help their offense settle down, but both are multiple WEEKS away.
The Lakers are going to have to pull what the C's did last year, they've got the top end talent for it, but I don't know if their chemistry will be able to click that way. Not with a new coach and two new major players.
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They should have hired Stan Van Gundy.
One problem: Dwight Howard.
Yeah, gotta assume Howard would kill that with the leverage his upcoming FA would give him.
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They should have hired Stan Van Gundy.
One problem: Dwight Howard.
That is not a serious problem. It is a cosmetic problem.
They have a functional and successful working relationship. That is what matters. Not whether they are buddies or not.
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They should have hired Stan Van Gundy.
One problem: Dwight Howard.
That is not a serious problem. It is a cosmetic problem.
They have a functional and successful working relationship. That is what matters. Not whether they are buddies or not.
I'm not sure Dwight would listen to SVG, though.
I do agree with you that he would have been the best available coach to hire.
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lol...I still believe Lakers will be one of the final teams standing...they won't make it out of the west, but I still believe they'll get better from what we've seen.
But it is STILL funny to see them struggle, as always.
Note to Kobe: Give it up...let it go...drop that rock, Kobe. Go ahead...it is ok.
You'd better NOW, because when Nash gets back, and he's D'Antoni's prodigy....
That's good enough for me. It may be too late for the Lakers by the time Nash gets back. The West is too deep for them to continue to lose at least every other game.
They will be first round fodder at this rate.
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I would like to see D'Antoni ramp up the offense
PG: Duhon
SG: Meeks
SF: Kobe
PF: Artest
C: Dwight
They do not and cannot have adequate spacing and ball movement offensively with the starting lineup D'Antoni used today (J.Hill, Artest, Duhon, Kobe and Dwight). They need to get more shooting, quickness and passing onto the court.
D'Antoni isn't a defensive coach. He can't get the best out of that defensive orientated starting lineup. He needs to stick to what he does best -- offense. Get the offense right and use the offense to help setup your defense. It's hard to setup your defense when you are turning the ball over and missing shots at a high clip. Offering your opponent plenty of chances to run your slow guys off the floor.
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watchin da lakers lose like dis is hilarious i might have to hit up their forums to laugh even harder they got too much talent to be 4 games under .500 idc bout da injuries their defense is still trash nd Pau, Blake, nd Nash wont help wit dat
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SVG and Howard had a dysfunctional and bottomed out working relationship by the end of last season. Otherwise Stan Van Gundy would still be coaching in Orlando. Howard didn't trust Stan Van Gundy's decisions, and Stan knew that Howard was talking to management about firing him behind his back. Can't get much worse than that.
And this is probably Howard's biggest problem. He doesn't really know what is good for him.
The game against Cleveland was normal for the Lakers: They are terrible on transition defense unless they are really focused and put in the effort, which has been a problem for a couple of seasons. And with Howard as their defensive anchor, they need to change their halfcourt defense to fit him, not the other way round (and at least Howard knows this).
It's hard to believe that they play D'Antoni-offense. It's isolation plays for Kobe or Dwight, no pick and roll and forget about seven seconds or less.
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watchin da lakers lose like dis is hilarious i might have to hit up their forums to laugh even harder they got too much talent to be 4 games under .500 idc bout da injuries their defense is still trash nd Pau, Blake, nd Nash wont help wit dat
Haha word same with me. I love seeing the Lakers lose, its like a holiday in my mind. I remember when they lost a game and Kobe was staring down Mike Brown so hard. Guess this game, Kobe has to stare in the mirror hahahaha
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The Lakers are 1-10 when Kobe scores 30+ points, and 8-3 when they get more balanced offense.
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And the mighty Dwight Howard joins the ParaTrooper Club, at the expense of poor Jordan Hill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gboZVysivZU
Andy V is just ballin. He should get a spot on the All-Star team.
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fun visiting the Laker Nation forum . Holly cow BATMAN they are fit to be tied. after Cleveland loss.
All ready fans are wanting to FIRE .... MDA :o
Geesse,,,he just got there and TWO all stars are not play n. Give the guy at least 25 games. ::) and ALL his players
Wha tis FUNNY is KOBE has 42 points and DH12 has 19 and 20 double double and LA can't win.
The Lakers have almost ZERO defense.... Howard gets stripped of the ball all the time in the paint. TURD PEACE is too slow to guard the younger players.
NAsh is fragile as a china doll, slow and plays no Defense worth talking about.
Pau ...is slowing big time, hates his diva team., and doesn't fit MDA offense.
Kobe ....BALLHOG, doesn't trust teamates, PLAYs NO defense.
Bench ....sucks Huge.
Howard looks like he really don't care alot about being there.
If they don't make the playoffs ...HOWARD bolts.
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The Lakers are 1-10 when Kobe scores 30+ points, and 8-3 when they get more balanced offense.
They have know this for like forever , and Kobe won't change, when his team mates miss shots , he PANICKS and starts shooting every time down court. He never lets anybody else ever get going . Kobe shoots TOO MUCH and neeeds to ride the bench , so he can get some rest , so he can play a little defense . He is on the court about 10 minutes too much.
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This is turning out worse, so far, than the last time LA tried to put together a team of 4 "superstars"
Although the team with Shaq, Kobe, Malone and Payton made the Finals that year, they were a disappointment. Too much drama.
Oddly, just like this year.
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The Lakers are 1-10 when Kobe scores 30+ points, and 8-3 when they get more balanced offense.
They have know this for like forever , and Kobe won't change, when his team mates miss shots , he PANICKS and starts shooting every time down court. He never lets anybody else ever get going . Kobe shoots TOO MUCH and neeeds to ride the bench , so he can get some rest , so he can play a little defense . He is on the court about 10 minutes too much.
I don't know can you really blame him though? Duhon? Morris? Antwan is very inconsistent and Dwight isnt doing squat right now, fumbles the ball, just passes it doesn't even want the ball
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This is turning out worse, so far, than the last time LA tried to put together a team of 4 "superstars"
Although the team with Shaq, Kobe, Malone and Payton made the Finals that year, they were a disappointment. Too much drama.
Oddly, just like this year.
They got to the Finals, I know they got beat soundly in the Finals but they got their despite poor overall health.
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Theres not many predictions that I got right in my life but this one was a no-brainer!!! I made this one before the season started. Like I said before, they are too old, have no bench, and starters play too many minutes. those old bones dont heal quickly. I said maybe 5o wins but now i doubt that, lol..is it good to see the Lakers being awful?!?!
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The Lakers are 1-10 when Kobe scores 30+ points, and 8-3 when they get more balanced offense.
They have know this for like forever , and Kobe won't change, when his team mates miss shots , he PANICKS and starts shooting every time down court. He never lets anybody else ever get going . Kobe shoots TOO MUCH and neeeds to ride the bench , so he can get some rest , so he can play a little defense . He is on the court about 10 minutes too much.
I don't know can you really blame him though? Duhon? Morris? Antwan is very inconsistent and Dwight isnt doing squat right now, fumbles the ball, just passes it doesn't even want the ball
What do you mean you dont know how you can blame him? In 9 wins he has averaged 16 shots a game and 22 points per game while getting almost 7 assists per game.
In 13 losses he averages 22 shots per game and 34 points a game and his assists drop down to 3.5 per.
The Lakers have lost 8 straight games where Kobe scored 30+. The amazing stats here is in their last 13 games. The are 5 and 8. In the 8 losses, Kobe had 30+ each game. In those 5 wins Kobe hit 29 once, with the four games hitting 14, 19, 25, and 22.
I know Duhon and Morris arent superstars but its no lie that when Kobe passes the ball and gets more teammates involved, they are a better team.
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to make the playoffs they need to win somewhere around 40 more games , and so far they have played a pretty easy schedule IMO.
39 year old NASH get one more injury to his frail body , or Kobe sprains an ankle , and they miss any games after Nash returns . I really don't think they can win enough games to make the playoffs.
Lakers have no really good lock down defenders , WOrld TurD is too slow for most young stars . Kobe can't play lockdown defense for 40 more games and still score 40 points to make a close game. He is looking tired already .
After the first four players .......the rest of the Lakers is an afterthought or has beens.
Lakers need to trade Gasol ASAP for a younger small forward . Who will they FLEECE this time. Trade a older tired player for what young superstar they want.
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personally, I don't care about who the Lakers lose to or what their record is. I do however want us to pummel them to add to their miseries. If they miss playoffs (unlikely), love it.
If they miraculously make it to the finals with us, I want us to beat them. Our bench destroys their bench. Rondo will tear Nash apart and Bradley and Lee will have fun with Kobe and Kobe will go for 50 ppg shooting 30%. Howard will have something like a 18 and 12 series but shooting 20% FTs.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mel26jfcgd1qc9n6mo1_500.jpg)
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The Los Angeles Lakers are searching for a veteran point guard as they continue to play without Steve Nash and Steve Blake.
Jannero Pargo and Delonte West are two players that interest the Lakers.
Via Marc Stein's twitter
Delonte West would be a great addition for LA. He could both backup Steve Nash and play alongside Nash. A big upgrade over Jodie Meeks with his ball-handling, dribble penetration, passing and toughness defensively.
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The Lakers are 1-10 when Kobe scores 30+ points, and 8-3 when they get more balanced offense.
They have know this for like forever , and Kobe won't change, when his team mates miss shots , he PANICKS and starts shooting every time down court. He never lets anybody else ever get going . Kobe shoots TOO MUCH and neeeds to ride the bench , so he can get some rest , so he can play a little defense . He is on the court about 10 minutes too much.
I don't know can you really blame him though? Duhon? Morris? Antwan is very inconsistent and Dwight isnt doing squat right now, fumbles the ball, just passes it doesn't even want the ball
What do you mean you dont know how you can blame him? In 9 wins he has averaged 16 shots a game and 22 points per game while getting almost 7 assists per game.
In 13 losses he averages 22 shots per game and 34 points a game and his assists drop down to 3.5 per.
The Lakers have lost 8 straight games where Kobe scored 30+. The amazing stats here is in their last 13 games. The are 5 and 8. In the 8 losses, Kobe had 30+ each game. In those 5 wins Kobe hit 29 once, with the four games hitting 14, 19, 25, and 22.
I know Duhon and Morris arent superstars but its no lie that when Kobe passes the ball and gets more teammates involved, they are a better team.
If he had teammates that would do something, have you seen any recent Lakers games? They are really really awful lots of scrubs over there
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The Los Angeles Lakers are searching for a veteran point guard as they continue to play without Steve Nash and Steve Blake.
Jannero Pargo and Delonte West are two players that interest the Lakers.
Via Marc Stein's twitter
Delonte West would be a great addition for LA. He could both backup Steve Nash and play alongside Nash. A big upgrade over Jodie Meeks with his ball-handling, dribble penetration, passing and toughness defensively.
He would be ideal if he could hold it together both mentally and physically.
The lakers don't have much to lose by signing him really tho
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The Los Angeles Lakers are searching for a veteran point guard as they continue to play without Steve Nash and Steve Blake.
Jannero Pargo and Delonte West are two players that interest the Lakers.
Via Marc Stein's twitter
Delonte West would be a great addition for LA. He could both backup Steve Nash and play alongside Nash. A big upgrade over Jodie Meeks with his ball-handling, dribble penetration, passing and toughness defensively.
I have to admire that you are always first and foremost a fan of the game -- you like to see good basketball and well-constructed teams.
I, on the other hand, see DWest as a terrble addition to the Lakers as he will make them better.
On yet another hand, I am not sure that LA and the Lakers present a smart choice for Delonte -- that is, if his reported mental health issues are accurate.
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I'm wondering how the Lakers will fair against the KNICKS tommorrow. ??? I rather see the Knicks win
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The Los Angeles Lakers are searching for a veteran point guard as they continue to play without Steve Nash and Steve Blake.
Jannero Pargo and Delonte West are two players that interest the Lakers.
Via Marc Stein's twitter
Delonte West would be a great addition for LA. He could both backup Steve Nash and play alongside Nash. A big upgrade over Jodie Meeks with his ball-handling, dribble penetration, passing and toughness defensively.
West and Artest on the same powder keg? I'd love to see that...
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The Los Angeles Lakers are searching for a veteran point guard as they continue to play without Steve Nash and Steve Blake.
Jannero Pargo and Delonte West are two players that interest the Lakers.
Via Marc Stein's twitter
Delonte West would be a great addition for LA. He could both backup Steve Nash and play alongside Nash. A big upgrade over Jodie Meeks with his ball-handling, dribble penetration, passing and toughness defensively.
West and Artest on the same powder keg? I'd love to see that...
Yeah, that seems like adding another volatile element to an already unstable situation.
Wonder if they'll try to trade for someone out of their teams' favor like Darren Collison or DJ Augustin - both have some experience, are fairly cheap, and on the last years of their contract.
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Wonder if they'll try to trade for someone out of their teams' favor like Darren Collison or DJ Augustin - both have some experience, are fairly cheap, and on the last years of their contract.
I didn't know Darren Collison was struggling. I thought he'd do well in Dallas. I think Dirk's return will be really good for Collison. Dirk's pick and pop game will open up a lot of opportunities for Collison in the pick and roll. I expect Dallas will feel the same and wait to see how Collison does with Dirk before deciding his fate.
Wow, DJ Augustin's shooting numbers are ugly. He is only shooting 26.6% from the field and 21.3% from three. Jeez, his jump-shooting is the only really positive contribution he makes to his team. I am surprised Indiana haven't cut him from their rotation altogether. I'd love to see Lance Stephenson get handed the PG duties.
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The funniest part about all of this is that it could be much worse. The Lakers could be the suckers dealing with Andrew Bynum and his awful knees right now.
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The Los Angeles Lakers are searching for a veteran point guard as they continue to play without Steve Nash and Steve Blake.
Jannero Pargo and Delonte West are two players that interest the Lakers.
Via Marc Stein's twitter
Delonte West would be a great addition for LA. He could both backup Steve Nash and play alongside Nash. A big upgrade over Jodie Meeks with his ball-handling, dribble penetration, passing and toughness defensively.
West and Artest on the same powder keg? I'd love to see that...
Yeah, that seems like adding another volatile element to an already unstable situation.
Wonder if they'll try to trade for someone out of their teams' favor like Darren Collison or DJ Augustin - both have some experience, are fairly cheap, and on the last years of their contract.
While West is absolutely a risk, he has shown a pretty steady trend of being able to stay under control for the first year or so with a new team. And there is no doubt in my mind he would be a huge asset to them. He can step in and really give them a boost at the SG spot off the bench...and I could even see him allow Kobe to slide to SF in the starting lineup. He gives them shooting, passing, and a little bit of an edge that they have been missing.
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Wow, DJ Augustin's shooting numbers are ugly. He is only shooting 26.6% from the field and 21.3% from three. Jeez, his jump-shooting is the only really positive contribution he makes to his team. I am surprised Indiana haven't cut him from their rotation altogether. I'd love to see Lance Stephenson get handed the PG duties.
They pretty much have, but they have mostly given Ben Hansborough the backup PG minutes.
I think Dallas will wait on Collison too, but Augustin is probably very gettable right now if the Lakers didn't want to go the unsigned FA route.
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Theres not many predictions that I got right in my life but this one was a no-brainer!!! I made this one before the season started. Like I said before, they are too old, have no bench, and starters play too many minutes. those old bones dont heal quickly. I said maybe 5o wins but now i doubt that, lol..is it good to see the Lakers being awful?!?!
TP, Birdman. You nailed it
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I'm wondering how the Lakers will fair against the KNICKS tommorrow. ??? I rather see the Knicks win
Now you can tell how obvious it is that the Lakers are overhyped by ESPN. Besides the obvious Heat stories, Never have I seen a team that is LOSING and getting this much publicity. Nearly half of the ESPN show topics are about the Lakers
The main important thing is the Lakers not tying the number of titles the Celtics have
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Im not one to gloat and being its about the Lakers, it feels soooo good they are struggling. Hope they dont make playoffs would be icing on the cake!
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the Bynum point is correct.
Now.. record wise theyre around top 18
;D