Disagree , he averaged 18ppg and 10rebs and 17ppg and 13.6 rebs 5 asts in the playoffs last year. He is an elite defender at the PF position(averages 2blks and 1 stl for his career) with legit length 6'10 (Bass,Green and Sullinger are all undersized PF'S). He would be an amazing running mate for Rondo and would make a very good defense great while solving our rebounding troubles.
Imagine a starting lineup of Rondo,Bradley,PP,Smith and KG . That D would be locking teams down nightly.
He has never had a legit PG to get him the ball which explains his poor shot selection. He would benefit greatly from playing with elite passers like Rondo and KG.
I don't understand why money would be a concern, we are over the cap for the next 2 years anyways and we are going for a title right now. IMO Smith strongly improves our chance of winning a title this year.
I would trade Bass and Green and pick for smith if that's what it takes.
But trading Bass AND Green is overkill on the salary matching.
To bring Smith's salary in (balloons to 15M on trade clause) we need to send at least 10M. But we need to send a little more than that to stay under the luxury tax threshold - so ~11M or so should do it.
Green plus Bass is 14M+ - so that's overkill. Plus, while we can afford to trade Bass because we have depth at PF AND the player we get back (Smith) would be a PF, however trading Green robs us of our SF depth behind Pierce, which is critical. I don't think we can afford to do that. We need Pierce to be fresh come playoffs.
Bass plus Lee is 11M. That trade works better for matching the money plus once Bradley is back then we have more depth at SG to trade from. I.E., Lee becomes a tradable luxury. Yes, Atlanta has a surplus of SGs of its own right now. To make this work, you probably need a third team that would take either Lee or someone from ATL's roster in exchange for something ATL needs in order to make the deal work. Sweeten the deal with draft picks.
The net would be the C's getting Smith and Atlanta getting Bass + Lee/whatever + picks. ATL has to take some sort of deal like that at some point or watch Smith walk at the end of the year.
With all positives already being said about Smith I still don't understand the love affair. Lets at least see how the team as it is currently configured operates. If they have a ridiculous record by mid-season roll with what you got. Plus, to get Smith right now does cost way too much, especially since he can be available next off-season. Why give up so much for no real reason. We don't need Smith as of yet. That being said if we could give up Wilcox, Collins, Joseph, Christmas, Bass a couple of picks and money to get Smith I would do that. I am in no way giving up Sullinger, Green, Avery or Melo as a prospect.
To quote mmmmm on the Most complete Celtic team?QuoteBut trading Bass AND Green is overkill on the salary matching.
To bring Smith's salary in (balloons to 15M on trade clause) we need to send at least 10M. But we need to send a little more than that to stay under the luxury tax threshold - so ~11M or so should do it.
Green plus Bass is 14M+ - so that's overkill. Plus, while we can afford to trade Bass because we have depth at PF AND the player we get back (Smith) would be a PF, however trading Green robs us of our SF depth behind Pierce, which is critical. I don't think we can afford to do that. We need Pierce to be fresh come playoffs.
Bass plus Lee is 11M. That trade works better for matching the money plus once Bradley is back then we have more depth at SG to trade from. I.E., Lee becomes a tradable luxury. Yes, Atlanta has a surplus of SGs of its own right now. To make this work, you probably need a third team that would take either Lee or someone from ATL's roster in exchange for something ATL needs in order to make the deal work. Sweeten the deal with draft picks.
The net would be the C's getting Smith and Atlanta getting Bass + Lee/whatever + picks. ATL has to take some sort of deal like that at some point or watch Smith walk at the end of the year.
I am also hesitant about trading Lee. I'd like to see how Avery comes back from surgery and holds up during extended play.
wow you're really drinking that green cool-aid. You wouldn't give up Sully Lee or Melo to get Smith? He's an all-star level talent who's only 26, but you would rather have unproven prospects who at the full potential won't even be as good as Smith is already?
I like Sully alot,but smith is already close to being a 20/10 guy with elite defense and athleticism...
no chance atlanta is going to trade him for only those players anyways, it would likely take Bradley or Green along with Bass and filler to have a shot at landing him. I am hesitant to give up Bradley, but Green and Bass I would be wiling to send out for an all-star talent to team up with Rondo for the next 10 years.
Please explain our love affair with this guy.
the celtics are blessed to have so many players that are signed to bargain deals.you feel rondo tanked ???
Sully is a way better value than smith, and will be even more so over the next few years on this rookie contract.
I also like keeping rondo on a short leash. Having smith on the team would give rondo more power. Imagine rondo and smith together protesting some team decision with lackluster play.
It was only 2 years ago that rondo tanked in protest of perk being traded. Having a high paid, talented lackey around would bring out the worst in rondo when things dont go rondos way.
the celtics are blessed to have so many players that are signed to bargain deals.you feel rondo tanked ???
Sully is a way better value than smith, and will be even more so over the next few years on this rookie contract.
I also like keeping rondo on a short leash. Having smith on the team would give rondo more power. Imagine rondo and smith together protesting some team decision with lackluster play.
It was only 2 years ago that rondo tanked in protest of perk being traded. Having a high paid, talented lackey around would bring out the worst in rondo when things dont go rondos way.
the guy who plays without speaking about any minor injury even when young, the guy who dives for a loose ball through someone's legs, the guy who played with a dislocated arm
Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce. If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.
Green or Bradley would have to be involved IMO, no way the Hawks are giving Smith away for Bass and Junk. The guy is approaching being a 20/10 PF with legit size and athleticism .Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce. If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.
I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.
I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.
Green or Bradley would have to be involved IMO, no way the Hawks are giving Smith away for Bass and Junk. The guy is approaching being a 20/10 PF with legit size and athleticism .Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce. If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.
I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.
I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.
How about Bass, Wilcox, Melo, Kris Joseph, and two draft picks for Smith. Besides Bass and Wilcox, those other ones are scrubs that won't be on the floor much anyways. And we can afford to do without Bass and Wilcox.
To people who are saying they don't understand the love affair, do you know how scary we'll be with a starting line-up of Rondo, Pierce, KG, Smith, and Bradley? With that line up, #18 is guaranteed
Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce. If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.
I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.
I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.
My issue has never been with the talent. It has been with the offensive game he falls in love with and (the big issue) the amount of money he is and will likely get in the future.
well they would get Melo and 2 other picks, which makes it not a terrible trade.How about Bass, Wilcox, Melo, Kris Joseph, and two draft picks for Smith. Besides Bass and Wilcox, those other ones are scrubs that won't be on the floor much anyways. And we can afford to do without Bass and Wilcox.
To people who are saying they don't understand the love affair, do you know how scary we'll be with a starting line-up of Rondo, Pierce, KG, Smith, and Bradley? With that line up, #18 is guaranteed
Why does Atlanta make this trade?
Bass is a good role player and Wilcox was serviceable as a backup. How does that equal near all-star level on the last year of a contract?
I think Smith + Rondo would work beautifully together offensively - very similar to the Nash/Marion duo that was so potent in Phoenix. The Smith/KG frontcourt pairing is also extremely appealing.
Very difficult to construct a deal that would be pleasing to Atlanta though. If Jeff Green can play his way into positive trade value, maybe.
How about Bass, Wilcox, Melo, Kris Joseph, and two draft picks for Smith. Besides Bass and Wilcox, those other ones are scrubs that won't be on the floor much anyways. And we can afford to do without Bass and Wilcox.
To people who are saying they don't understand the love affair, do you know how scary we'll be with a starting line-up of Rondo, Pierce, KG, Smith, and Bradley? With that line up, #18 is guaranteed
Why does Atlanta make this trade?
Bass is a good role player and Wilcox was serviceable as a backup. How does that equal near all-star level on the last year of a contract?
Josh Smith is 6-8 to 6-9 and weighs 225 to 230lbs.
He is an undersized power forward (undersized quick four).
I think the most realistic trade we would do for Smith would be the following:
Brandon Bass, Fab Melo, and Avery Bradley (picks and fillers might need to be added)
We aren't giving up Both Bass and Sullinger. I also think Sullinger will evolve as our most valuable rookie contract deal. He's in the first year of his deal where as Bradley will be up for an extension soon. We have 21+ mill committed to Rondo, Lee, and Jet over the next 3+ years. Where is the money for AB going to come from?
Bradley and Fab give Atlanta potential and cheap salary. They can eventually compliment Horford. Bass is a fair deal that can realistically be moved later on, but 6 mill isn't a bad deal for a guy like Bass.
I think that is the best deal Atlanta would get from us.
How about Bass, Wilcox, Melo, Kris Joseph, and two draft picks for Smith. Besides Bass and Wilcox, those other ones are scrubs that won't be on the floor much anyways. And we can afford to do without Bass and Wilcox.
To people who are saying they don't understand the love affair, do you know how scary we'll be with a starting line-up of Rondo, Pierce, KG, Smith, and Bradley? With that line up, #18 is guaranteed
Why does Atlanta make this trade?
Bass is a good role player and Wilcox was serviceable as a backup. How does that equal near all-star level on the last year of a contract?
I think the most realistic trade we would do for Smith would be the following:
Brandon Bass, Fab Melo, and Avery Bradley (picks and fillers might need to be added)
We aren't giving up Both Bass and Sullinger. I also think Sullinger will evolve as our most valuable rookie contract deal. He's in the first year of his deal where as Bradley will be up for an extension soon. We have 21+ mill committed to Rondo, Lee, and Jet over the next 3+ years. Where is the money for AB going to come from?
Bradley and Fab give Atlanta potential and cheap salary. They can eventually compliment Horford. Bass is a fair deal that can realistically be moved later on, but 6 mill isn't a bad deal for a guy like Bass.
I think that is the best deal Atlanta would get from us.
What about a Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp comparison? Smith is only 5 lbs lighter and 1 inch smaller then Kemp was in his prime.
What about a Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp comparison? Smith is only 5 lbs lighter and 1 inch smaller then Kemp was in his prime.
More like Jason Kidd and Kenyon Martin
Josh Smith is 6-8 to 6-9 and weighs 225 to 230lbs.
He is an undersized power forward (undersized quick four).
Shawn Kemp was 6'10" and 230. He was pretty good in Seattle. The league is smaller then it was in the 90s and early 2000s. Smith can play the 4 based on his size. His shot selection and offensive skill set are what make people feel he is "positionless" at neither being a 3 or a 4.
Playing with Rondo and passers like KG and Pierce can improve that efficiency.
My Trade Idea:
Celtics Recieve:
Josh Smith
Hawks Recieve:
Avery Bradley
Fab Melo
Brandon Bass
Celtics 1st pick
Celtics 2nd pick
other team 2nd pick
Other team Receives:
Jason Collins
Cash
Then, sign Eddie House and Chris Andersen.
Rajon Rondo/Jason Terry/Eddie House
Courney Lee/Jason Terry/Dionte Xmas
Paul Pierce/Jeff Green/Kris Joseph
Josh Smith/Jared Sullinger/Chris Wilcox
Kevin Garnett/Darko Milicic/Chris Andersen
That would be the best or 2nd best team in the league. We would be scary good defensively, in transition, and we still have a really good bench. Josh Smith would deffinately improve our team.
My Trade Idea:
Celtics Recieve:
Josh Smith
Hawks Recieve:
Avery Bradley
Fab Melo
Brandon Bass
Celtics 1st pick
Celtics 2nd pick
other team 2nd pick
Other team Receives:
Jason Collins
Cash
Then, sign Eddie House and Chris Andersen.
Rajon Rondo/Jason Terry/Eddie House
Courney Lee/Jason Terry/Dionte Xmas
Paul Pierce/Jeff Green/Kris Joseph
Josh Smith/Jared Sullinger/Chris Wilcox
Kevin Garnett/Darko Milicic/Chris Andersen
That would be the best or 2nd best team in the league. We would be scary good defensively, in transition, and we still have a really good bench. Josh Smith would deffinately improve our team.
I am pretty sure that trade would not work, because it would put the C's over the luxury tax threshold, even if Smith waives his 15% trade kicker.
well it would work, just not sure Boston would do it.My Trade Idea:
Celtics Recieve:
Josh Smith
Hawks Recieve:
Avery Bradley
Fab Melo
Brandon Bass
Celtics 1st pick
Celtics 2nd pick
other team 2nd pick
Other team Receives:
Jason Collins
Cash
Then, sign Eddie House and Chris Andersen.
Rajon Rondo/Jason Terry/Eddie House
Courney Lee/Jason Terry/Dionte Xmas
Paul Pierce/Jeff Green/Kris Joseph
Josh Smith/Jared Sullinger/Chris Wilcox
Kevin Garnett/Darko Milicic/Chris Andersen
That would be the best or 2nd best team in the league. We would be scary good defensively, in transition, and we still have a really good bench. Josh Smith would deffinately improve our team.
I am pretty sure that trade would not work, because it would put the C's over the luxury tax threshold, even if Smith waives his 15% trade kicker.
Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce. If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.
I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.
I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.
Because he's been in the league 8 years and it's no better now than when he started?
I can understand the appeal of Smith. He's a great talent and young enough to pair with Rondo for another 5+ years, but I think folks are underestimating the trouble that comes with a guy who's going to turn 27 and still plays stupid on the court.
Mike
Getting Josh Smith ties up considerably more resources than grabbing Darko Milicic off the waiver wire. The Paul Pierce comparison is a fair one -- except that Pierce was immensely more talented at 27 than Josh Smith.Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce. If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.
I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.
I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.
Because he's been in the league 8 years and it's no better now than when he started?
I can understand the appeal of Smith. He's a great talent and young enough to pair with Rondo for another 5+ years, but I think folks are underestimating the trouble that comes with a guy who's going to turn 27 and still plays stupid on the court.
Mike
Right. Guys like Darko Milicic...I mean Paul Pierce...I mean Josh Smith who play stupid at age 27 are more trouble than they're worth.
How about this 3 team trade
Boston - Josh Smith
Atlanta - Anderson Varejao, Fab Melo, Jason Collins
Cleveland - Brandon Bass, Avery Bradley
Getting Josh Smith ties up considerably more resources than grabbing Darko Milicic off the waiver wire. The Paul Pierce comparison is a fair one -- except that Pierce was immensely more talented at 27 than Josh Smith.Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce. If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.
I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.
I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.
Because he's been in the league 8 years and it's no better now than when he started?
I can understand the appeal of Smith. He's a great talent and young enough to pair with Rondo for another 5+ years, but I think folks are underestimating the trouble that comes with a guy who's going to turn 27 and still plays stupid on the court.
Mike
Right. Guys like Darko Milicic...I mean Paul Pierce...I mean Josh Smith who play stupid at age 27 are more trouble than they're worth.
How about this 3 team trade
Boston - Josh Smith
Atlanta - Anderson Varejao, Fab Melo, Jason Collins
Cleveland - Brandon Bass, Avery Bradley
| Paul Pierce $16,790,345 Kevin Garnett $11,566,265 Rajon Rondo $11,000,000 Jeff Green $8,385,000 Courtney Lee $5,000,000 Jason Terry $5,000,000 Jared Sullinger $1,306,920 Chris Wilcox $854,389 Dionte Christmas $473,604 Kris Joseph $473,604 Jamar Smith $473,604 Josh Smith $13,200,000 Rookie Minimum $473,604 $74,997,335 |
Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce. If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.
I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.
I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.
Because he's been in the league 8 years and it's no better now than when he started?
I can understand the appeal of Smith. He's a great talent and young enough to pair with Rondo for another 5+ years, but I think folks are underestimating the trouble that comes with a guy who's going to turn 27 and still plays stupid on the court.
Mike
Right. Guys like Darko Milicic...I mean Paul Pierce...I mean Josh Smith who play stupid at age 27 are more trouble than they're worth.
Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce. If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.
I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.
I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.
Because he's been in the league 8 years and it's no better now than when he started?
I can understand the appeal of Smith. He's a great talent and young enough to pair with Rondo for another 5+ years, but I think folks are underestimating the trouble that comes with a guy who's going to turn 27 and still plays stupid on the court.
Mike
Right. Guys like Darko Milicic...I mean Paul Pierce...I mean Josh Smith who play stupid at age 27 are more trouble than they're worth.
1. Bringing in Darko to compete for the back-up center spot is completely different than bringing in Josh Smith to be the 2nd or 3rd most important player on the team AND one of the cornerstone's of the team's next 4 or 5 seasons.
2. Paul Pierce was a better player and much less of an on-court knucklehead than Smith at 27.
3. If Ainge can sign Smith as a FA after the season, I'm all for it because that's a good cost-benefit bet. Giving up a couple of playoff caliber rotation players and one or two 1st rounders for Smith, which is what it would likely take, is something else. That's a lot to give away for stupid.
Mike
I don't like the guy much. Not a fan.
I think Smith + Rondo would work beautifully together offensively - very similar to the Nash/Marion duo that was so potent in Phoenix. The Smith/KG frontcourt pairing is also extremely appealing.
Very difficult to construct a deal that would be pleasing to Atlanta though. If Jeff Green can play his way into positive trade value, maybe.
I think there is a HUGE difference offensively with Nash/Marion from Rondo/Smith, because of the dramatically different shooting abilities. But, defensively, Rondo and Smith would be a scary combination.
I agree that there just aren't many deals that make much sense for both teams though.