CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: droopdog7 on October 07, 2012, 01:19:38 PM
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I'm sure I will be lambasted by some, but I am on record saying I didn't want to resign bass. Looking at our front court situation, I think bass should be behind guys like sully and green and Wilcox. Darko and Collins are true centers so they don't overlap too much with bass.
We are paying bass to be at least a rotation guy, and it looks like he will start, but I kinda wish he wasn't around because have better options.
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I'm sure I will be lambasted by some, but I am on record saying I didn't want to resign bass. Looking at our front court situation, I think bass should be behind guys like sully and green and Wilcox. Darko and Collins are true centers so they don't overlap too much with bass.
We are paying bass to be at least a rotation guy, and it looks like he will start, but I kinda wish he wasn't around because have better options.
Sullinger got some wide open dunks against European defenses. Quick, stop the presses, ship Brandon Bass out of town!
Please...
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Disagree. Brandon Bass is really underappreciated around here. He is in my opinion second best big on this team. And it's not close. I don't consider Green a big. Sullinger has ways to go on defense. Darko is Darko. Wilcox is oft-injured player.
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I'm sure I will be lambasted by some, but I am on record saying I didn't want to resign bass. Looking at our front court situation, I think bass should be behind guys like sully and green and Wilcox. Darko and Collins are true centers so they don't overlap too much with bass.
We are paying bass to be at least a rotation guy, and it looks like he will start, but I kinda wish he wasn't around because have better options.
I'm with you that he shouldn't be a long term piece on our team. I doubt we are getting past the Lakers or any of the big teams out West with Bass as the starting PF.
But I think he's being used as a piece of a larger plan.
Rondo makes him look far more valuable than he really is because of the amount of open looks he gets him. This goes hand in hand with the most important part of having the combination of Bass and KG on the floor at the same time- they stretch the floor with jumpshooting and when Bass is out of the key threatening on offense, it gives KG space inside to go to work and takes the opposing teams power forward out of the paint-meaning that Rondo has space and KG gets more rebounds- they switch this with KG and Bass depending on who has the weaker post/interior defender on them. It's what we did in the playoffs and Doc abused teams repeatedly with this strategy.
He also keeps the floor open with Rondo and Pierce being able to cut and now that Rondo seems to be getting constantly better with that jumpshot we are going to get superior spacing.
I'd say Bass will be moved for a better player but right now we are using him perfectly- giving him wide open jumpshots and getting him to the line with his patented up fakes, whilst increasing his trade value when it looks like Josh Smith is coming our way.
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Question is how you feel about KG playing Center. Sully and Bass can find minutes as long as KG is center. If KG moves to PF then yes we have problems and that is without Wilcox in the mix.
Wilcox and Sully can both play at center. Bass is not as flexible; but he is our most reliable PF as of now. As much as I love Bass, trading Bass for a backup PG (straight up) might not be a bad move.
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Question is how you feel about KG playing Center. Sully and Bass can find minutes as long as KG is center. If KG moves to PF then yes we have problems and that is without Wilcox in the mix.
Wilcox and Sully can both play at center. Bass is not as flexible; but he is our most reliable PF as of now. As much as I love Bass, trading Bass for a backup PG (straight up) might not be a bad move.
You'd end up trading Bass for a player that would never see the court after Bradley gets back.
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I wonder if they are better with Sully starting and bass off the bench? For Miami, in particular, we could match sully against their four to start the game, and not have to worry about them sliding lebron to the four (at least at the start). Bass provides (along with Green) more flexibility, which seems more valuable to me on the Second.
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I'm sure I will be lambasted by some, but I am on record saying I didn't want to resign bass. Looking at our front court situation, I think bass should be behind guys like sully and green and Wilcox. Darko and Collins are true centers so they don't overlap too much with bass.
We are paying bass to be at least a rotation guy, and it looks like he will start, but I kinda wish he wasn't around because have better options.
we know what we will get from bass. the other guys:
1-sully is a rookie and unproven
2- green, a year off after a heart issue (and was terrible in the time he was playing for us the year of the trade)
3- wilcox, coming off a heart surgery
4- darko, a bust his entire career
5- collins, insurance
bass is our best option right now. things could change during the season, but for now, he is our guy and we know what he will give us
3- wilcox
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I'm sure I will be lambasted by some, but I am on record saying I didn't want to resign bass. Looking at our front court situation, I think bass should be behind guys like sully and green and Wilcox. Darko and Collins are true centers so they don't overlap too much with bass.
We are paying bass to be at least a rotation guy, and it looks like he will start, but I kinda wish he wasn't around because have better options.
News flash, the Celtics already signed him to a 3 year deal. Bass is a solid PF for us. If Sully truly emerges then Bass salary becomes a trade chip down the road. But not yet. We haven't even played any regular season games so let's not get carried away.
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Bass is Thumpin!
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Sully is a "BEAST"
Sullys needs to be IN THE GAME more minutes than NOT.
Call me crazy , but I think Doc see's this already.
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It's clear to me that Sully, who can play inside, is a better fit with KG and the starters, and Bass, who has a great mid-range game, would benefit by playing with a center with size who bangs inside, in Darko.
I think Sully will emerge quickly. He's got a great feel for the game, and has a ton of court awareness already for a rookie. I see him as a first team all rookie guy if he gets to play with the starters and gets 22 or so minutes a game.
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It's clear to me that Sully, who can play inside, is a better fit with KG and the starters, and Bass, who has a great mid-range game, would benefit by playing with a center with size who bangs inside, in Darko.
I think Sully will emerge quickly. He's got a great feel for the game, and has a ton of court awareness already for a rookie. I see him as a first team all rookie guy if he gets to play with the starters and gets 22 or so minutes a game.
Well have to see what he does against actual NBA big men on a consistent basis but I'm inclined to agree with you about the fit.
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We know what we will get from bass. The other guys:
1-sully is a rookie and unproven
2- green, a year off after a heart issue (and was terrible in the time he was playing for us the year of the trade)
3- wilcox, coming off a heart surgery
4- darko, a bust his entire career
5- collins, insurance
1 - We actually have a pretty good idea of what we're going to get from Sully. Everyone knew even BEFORE we saw him play that he was going to give us strong rebounding, good hands, solid passing and a good finisher in the low post against small-medium sized Power Forwards. We all expected that his defense and conditioning would need some work.
So far in the first two preseason games he has shown those exact traits, and he has clearly shown us that right now he is our best offensive rebounder and probably out best inside scorer. When a guys first two games are perfectly consistent with his scouting report, then you can usually be pretty confident that he's going to live up to that.
2. The fact that Green is a year away from heart surgery means absolutely nothing if he is healthy right now, and at this stage he looks like he's perfectly healthy.
When he played for us the year of the trade he had to adjust to a new team, a new role (from starter to bench player) a change of minutes (fom 30+ to just over 20 a game) and a new position (from maily PF over to primarilly a SF). He had to do all of that 20 games prior to the playoffs on a team who showed a lot of resistance to the trade (and hence he probabably had a lot of mental pressure on him to fill Perkin's shoes).
Despite all that he still averaged 15 points, 5 rebounds and 2 assists on a per 36 min basis, while shooting 49% from the field and 80% from the foul line. Call me crazy, but if that's the kind of numbers he puts up when he's playing "terrible" after being chucked in the worst possible scenario, then that's a guy that I (and I think just about every team in the NBA) would be happy to live with.
I think the problem with Green is that because he's so young and talented (and replaced a guy every one loved so much) every one here seems to expect him to give us 22 points, 7 rebounds and 5 assists a night while shooting 50%/40%/90% and making the all-defensive team...and anything less that that seems like a dissapointment.
As I said, I'm willing to bet that any team in the league would be thrilled to have a young, athletic 6'9" guy who can play multiple positions and give you and an efficient 10 points to go with 3 rebounds in 20 minutes off the bench and he put up those numbers under the worst possible circumstances a player could be thrown into.
You think Miami wouldn't take Jeff Green in a heartbeat given the chance? How about Chicago, the Lakers, the Spurs? He's the type of player any team would love to have and you can be sure that OKC would have never traded him if not for the fact that they (1) were desperate for a tough defensive center and (2) already had an elite swingman in Durant.
3. Wilcox - as with Green, heart surgery is no concern unless the player shows any signs of it being an issue. Wilcox had his after Green so it may take him a bit longer to get his conditioning back, but if he gives us what he did last season he'll be very valuable.
4. Darko has been great these last two preseason games. In the past Darko has had talent, but lacked the motivation to bother to use it in regular NBA games that count. The last two games are essentially meaningless preseason games, yet still he's shown a nice effort level - to me that's a great sign. He's grabbing boards and blocking shots, and they are exactly the two things we need from a big right now.
5 - Collins is, as you say, insurance. I'll give you that! :D
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It's clear to me that Sully, who can play inside, is a better fit with KG and the starters, and Bass, who has a great mid-range game, would benefit by playing with a center with size who bangs inside, in Darko.
I think Sully will emerge quickly. He's got a great feel for the game, and has a ton of court awareness already for a rookie. I see him as a first team all rookie guy if he gets to play with the starters and gets 22 or so minutes a game.
Well have to see what he does against actual NBA big men on a consistent basis but I'm inclined to agree with you about the fit.
I agree (hope) that Sullinger will eventually be our starting 4 next to KG. We really need his post play and rebounding on the starting unit. He just needs to learn to execute his defensive assignments. I hope he develops quickly and earns that starting spot.
It actually would make the most sense (IMO) later in the season to bring Bass off the bench with Darko or Wilcox and Green at the SF. It will be some combination of Jet, Rondo, Lee and Bradley as the backcourt with this second unit. It will be capable of so much offense that we will not need to worry about trading anyone later this season unless we have key a injury.
If we do make a trade for a backup PG it should be Jarret Jack. ;)
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its not about the competition he's playing against. Its not like he's backing these guys up and taking to them.
from the eye test Sullinger just has a good feel of where to be and when for Rebounds/putbacks/Dunks...
for contrast, look at Melo, joseph, christmas...or JJJ last year when he played...those guys looked lost out there at times
Sullinger just looks like he has a good feel for the game and is ready to play NOW, and because of that he will get minutes IMO.
If his defense improves, I think his skillset lends itself better to the starting unit...KG the pick and pop guy, sullinger the guy under the basket.
our bench would have Bass as the pick and pop guy, and Darko under the basket..bass still was able to put up his 11pts
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I'm sure I will be lambasted by some, but I am on record saying I didn't want to resign bass. Looking at our front court situation, I think bass should be behind guys like sully and green and Wilcox. Darko and Collins are true centers so they don't overlap too much with bass.
We are paying bass to be at least a rotation guy, and it looks like he will start, but I kinda wish he wasn't around because have better options.
Between Bass, Wilcox, Green, and Sully, which one has proven he can give valuable minutes for the Celtics in the playoffs?
The difference between Bass and all our other bigs (not named KG) is that he's proven himself for a whole season.
Are people just forgetting that Bass also exploded onto the scene when he first became a Celtic? I remember just loving what he did that first game against the Knicks. He looked flat out amazing and showed great improvements in team defense as the season went on. I'm all aboard the "Sully's for real!" train, but I am nowhere near in favor of Bass getting kicked to the curb like he was in Orlando because we suddenly have more talent in the frontcourt.
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I don't get it?
The Celtics are suppose to be a championship contender and we are worried that the starting PF, who did a great job at the role they asked him to play, is preventing a rookie and the backup SF from playing?
If at some point Sullinger can beat out Bass and takes the starting spot, great.
But make the rookie earn the starting nod. Make him have to beat out a guy that fit so well with the starting lineup.
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Bass is more useful from the bench, that should be his role.
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personally, i can't wait for the Rondo-Bradley-Pierce-Bass-Garnett unit to get back together. Are people really forgetting how good that starting 5 was after the all star break last year?
I love Sullinger getting minutes but i like him even more off the bench. It gives the Celtics a legitimate low post scoring threat when Garnett sits.
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Between Bass, Wilcox, Green, and Sully, which one has proven he can give valuable minutes for the Celtics in the playoffs?
The difference between Bass and all our other bigs (not named KG) is that he's proven himself for a whole season.
Bass actually wasn't that fantastic in the playoffs...
He averaged 11 points on 46% shooting to go with 5 rebounds in 30 minutes.
The only area where Bass was actually better compared to the regular season was free throw shoowing (91% vs 82%). His scoring, rebounding and FG% all went down, while his fouls went slightly up.
In fact those numbers on a per 30 minutes basis are pretty mediocre for a starting PF on a contending team.
I dont think the numbers tell the full story either. He had maybe one really strong game in each series that pushed his numbers up, but in the majority of his playoff games I thought he was pretty mediocre and easilly the weakest link in our starting lineup.
You suggest he's more proven then Jeff Green, but Jeff put up about 11 points and 5 rebounds per 30 minutes in our playoff run the previous season - most people around here declare Green's performance that season as "terrible" and he was a bench player! Bass put up the same numbers as a starter after playing an entire season (including a full training camp) with the team.
Bass was solid in the regular season, but he was very average in the playoffs. People just think of the one or two big scoring games he had against Miami, but a couple of great games dont reflect his overall performance through that playoff run.
Bass struggled in the playoffs because you are facing the same team over a 7 game series. In the playoffs do a lot of extra scouting on their opponents, and they are more likely to exploit weaknesses. Once teams starting defending Bass' midrange jumper he became a non-factor out there.
Now neither Sullinger nor Green has yet shown us they can be consistently good over an 82 game season - but what they have shown us so far has been better than what Bass gave us last season.
I don't anticipate anyone taking Bass' starting spot on opening night, but 20 games into the season...maybe.
The more important thing is that to me, Bass didn't really gain anything when he was moved to the starting lineup. He was giving us a good 12-14 points an 5-6 rebounds per night off the bench, so once he got moved to the starting lineup I expected him to become a 17/8 guy, but his numbers never went up. They still hovered around that 14/6 range.
I honestly think you get the exact same production from Bass regardless of whether he's starting or coming off the bench, so why not make use of him off the bench where he can (along with Terry, Lee and Green) wreak havok on offense against opposing second units. If he comes off the benc you have four guys out there who are bonafide double digit scorers, combined with a true big (Milicic) who can block shots and eat up rebounds. With so many scorers on that second unit bass should have no trouble finding his share of open shots even without Rondo there feeding him the ball.
On the other hand, I'm not sure that Sullinger will be quite as effective off the bench as he would be as a starter - I think he'd really benefit from playing alongside KG, Pierce, Bradley and Rondo.
Again I don't expect it to happen overnight, but by the end of the season I wouldn't be surprised at all. I'd just kinda feel bad for Bass, as it wouldn't be easy mentally downgrading from a starting role to a bench role and knowing that the guy taking your place is a 20 year old rookie. For that reason along Doc might leave him with the starters..not sure.
Love Bass as a player and as a sportsman, but I think Sullinger's play id really catching Doc's attention.
The way I see it, we are set at the starting PG, SF and C positions. Once Bradley comes back, I think Doc is going to make guys work for starting roles at the other two positions - Bradley will have to earn that role back from Lee, and I think Sullinger will need to work to earn the starting PF role (or Bass will have to work to keep it).
It's gonna be a bar fight man... lol
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I dont see how Bass could get in the way, hes gonna work well whether he is in the first or second unit. As a fourth or fifth option in the first unit he is perfect. He is always open as the defense is always paying attention to pierce, kg, and rondo and whoever is shooting outside... Bass being the open man and hitting the open shot is huge for us.
However, I could see him playing with the second unit as well and Sully starting. Sully gives the Celtics a low post presence that they would lack with Bass in the line up. Sully could provide that low post presence while Bass could step in with the second unit as an extra shooting option freeing up the slash game for green and the post up inside game for darko.
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Jared Sullinger is a better player than Brandon Bass. Jared Sullinger was going to be a top 5 pick 2years ago and a top 10 this year... Brandon Bass wouldve got drafted in the late 20s in the drafts
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If I was given a ballot with Bass and Sully's names on it, I'd circle both.
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Jared Sullinger is a better player than Brandon Bass. Jared Sullinger was going to be a top 5 pick 2years ago and a top 10 this year... Brandon Bass wouldve got drafted in the late 20s in the drafts
And Darko got drafted second. Second! He's the best of them all. Bench Garnett, he was only drafted fifth. Start Darko! Darko is a beast!
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We know what we will get from bass. The other guys:
1-sully is a rookie and unproven
2- green, a year off after a heart issue (and was terrible in the time he was playing for us the year of the trade)
3- wilcox, coming off a heart surgery
4- darko, a bust his entire career
5- collins, insurance
1 - We actually have a pretty good idea of what we're going to get from Sully. Everyone knew even BEFORE we saw him play that he was going to give us strong rebounding, good hands, solid passing and a good finisher in the low post against small-medium sized Power Forwards. We all expected that his defense and conditioning would need some work.
So far in the first two preseason games he has shown those exact traits, and he has clearly shown us that right now he is our best offensive rebounder and probably out best inside scorer. When a guys first two games are perfectly consistent with his scouting report, then you can usually be pretty confident that he's going to live up to that.
We have not seen it against nba level talent in a meaningful nba game (i.e. regular season game). until we see anything but nba regular season game consistency, it is all speculation at this point.
2. The fact that Green is a year away from heart surgery means absolutely nothing if he is healthy right now, and at this stage he looks like he's perfectly healthy.
When he played for us the year of the trade he had to adjust to a new team, a new role (from starter to bench player) a change of minutes (fom 30+ to just over 20 a game) and a new position (from maily PF over to primarilly a SF). He had to do all of that 20 games prior to the playoffs on a team who showed a lot of resistance to the trade (and hence he probabably had a lot of mental pressure on him to fill Perkin's shoes).
Despite all that he still averaged 15 points, 5 rebounds and 2 assists on a per 36 min basis, while shooting 49% from the field and 80% from the foul line. Call me crazy, but if that's the kind of numbers he puts up when he's playing "terrible" after being chucked in the worst possible scenario, then that's a guy that I (and I think just about every team in the NBA) would be happy to live with.
I think the problem with Green is that because he's so young and talented (and replaced a guy every one loved so much) every one here seems to expect him to give us 22 points, 7 rebounds and 5 assists a night while shooting 50%/40%/90% and making the all-defensive team...and anything less that that seems like a dissapointment.
As I said, I'm willing to bet that any team in the league would be thrilled to have a young, athletic 6'9" guy who can play multiple positions and give you and an efficient 10 points to go with 3 rebounds in 20 minutes off the bench and he put up those numbers under the worst possible circumstances a player could be thrown into.
You think Miami wouldn't take Jeff Green in a heartbeat given the chance? How about Chicago, the Lakers, the Spurs? He's the type of player any team would love to have and you can be sure that OKC would have never traded him if not for the fact that they (1) were desperate for a tough defensive center and (2) already had an elite swingman in Durant.
hold up....not playing an entire season bc of a heart issue means absolutely nothing?!?!?!? lol, ok.
the fact is, green sucked when he played with us after the trade. forget PER stats, bc they are fantasy numbers, not actual output. do i think he will suck like he did after the trade, no.....but i dont think he deserves minutes ahead of bass to start the season.
3. Wilcox - as with Green, heart surgery is no concern unless the player shows any signs of it being an issue. Wilcox had his after Green so it may take him a bit longer to get his conditioning back, but if he gives us what he did last season he'll be very valuable.
see my initial response about green's heart issue. Wilcox is great if he is healthy. but again, he does not deserve the nod ahead of bass to start the season, which was the point of the creation of this thread.
4. Darko has been great these last two preseason games. In the past Darko has had talent, but lacked the motivation to bother to use it in regular NBA games that count. The last two games are essentially meaningless preseason games, yet still he's shown a nice effort level - to me that's a great sign. He's grabbing boards and blocking shots, and they are exactly the two things we need from a big right now.
could darko be in a good situation/role now that he wasn't on other teams, yes. i think he will be better suited in our lineup. but the guy has been a bust, plain and simple his entire career. again, he does not deserve minutes over bass.
5 - Collins is, as you say, insurance. I'll give you that! :D
u clearly love sully and he is ur binky, or perhaps u just dont like bass. but put ur emotions aside and see the big picture. bass played well for us last season. of all the guys u listed, he is the only to have played an entire season and knows and applies the system. until any of the other guys CONSISTENTLY outplay bass, they should not be playing ahead of him.
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Uhhhh no and you really lost me mentioning Wilcox... personal vendetta against bass?
glad to see all the geniuses around here penciling in sully as better then bass after 2 preseason games...HAHA
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I like both players alot. I think I'm seeing Bass already making efforts to asert himself more.
Sully's game just seems to be a better fit with the starting group by plugging a glarring hole in rebounding. or rather compliments everything the starters are already doing .
Bass and Kg's offense revolves mostly on the medium outside jumper and this seems redundant . Having a true inside scorer in the starting five looks like a good idea .Sully gives Rondo another inside option as KG pulls the bigs out of the paint or attracks a double or triple team. Sully is also a quicker finisher on the rim than Bass.
Like others pointed out, need to see more games , NBA preseason and see if this 4 +SULLY still holds any water.. Bass seems willing to step up his work around the basket some.
Doc's got a good option either way .
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Jared Sullinger is a better player than Brandon Bass. Jared Sullinger was going to be a top 5 pick 2years ago and a top 10 this year... Brandon Bass wouldve got drafted in the late 20s in the drafts
And Darko got drafted second. Second! He's the best of them all. Bench Garnett, he was only drafted fifth. Start Darko! Darko is a beast!
Yeah this logic makes zero sense whatsoever. Sulliger is a rookie with two years of college experience and we havent even seen him play in a real game. How would he be better than the experience that Bass gives. Bass proved last year that he can fit this system great by putting up career numbers. It is absurd to say that Sully is a better player than Bass.... Does he have the potential to be? Absolutely....But, does he also have the potential not to be? Absolutely.
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Jared Sullinger is a better player than Brandon Bass. Jared Sullinger was going to be a top 5 pick 2years ago and a top 10 this year... Brandon Bass wouldve got drafted in the late 20s in the drafts
And Darko got drafted second. Second! He's the best of them all. Bench Garnett, he was only drafted fifth. Start Darko! Darko is a beast!
Yeah this logic makes zero sense whatsoever. Sulliger is a rookie with two years of college experience and we havent even seen him play in a real game. How would he be better than the experience that Bass gives. Bass proved last year that he can fit this system great by putting up career numbers. It is absurd to say that Sully is a better player than Bass.... Does he have the potential to be? Absolutely....But, does he also have the potential not to be? Absolutely.
Sullinger has been great for us, yes. But until he proves he can consistently bring it against NBA competition (and even though this may be sooner rather than later, there are some legitimate question marks at this point), the starting job is -- or should be -- going to the known commodity. I have no doubts that Sullinger will be featured heavily in the rotation, but it's not like we didn't know this already. However, to announce that "Bass is getting in the way" is just a tad premature.
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i loved the way Bass played during the regular season, but I cannot get the pictures outta my head of him taking those stupid shots during the playoffs.. he regained the "No Pass Bass" nickname that he earned on his previous teams.
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guess we may find out against the Knicks if Sully can actually play.
sure Doc and Danny are curious how he will react. ???
Any rate we know what we got with Bass.
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guess we may find out against the Knicks if Sully can actually play.
It's still pre-season. Yeah, it'll be another data point, but all we've seen of Sullinger is Summer League and two games against Euro-league teams. I want to see what he can do it against NBA players in real NBA games...ie. the regular season.
I've been, and still am, a Sullinger doubter. Not a hater, but I have had my doubts about him since before the draft. I always figured he would be able to rebound and that's something the C's need, but *just* rebounding isn't good enough, and that's where my questions start. It appears that he has poor lateral quickness and doesn't have exceptionally long arms or a lot of lift to make up for his lack of ideal height. Can he handle NBA PF's who are quicker and/or longer than he is? Will he be able to keep them from shooting over him, driving past him? Is he going to be able to make the defensive rotations...I think he'll learn them, but can he do them quickly enough to stop pick and rolls, for example? Offensively, will he be able to get his post shots off without getting them batted back into his face? Can he hit a 12-15 foot jump shot consistently?
To me, those questions remained after Summer League. He did rebound well, but he was also bothered by longer/quicker big men and he did look a bit slow on rotations. But that was Summer League where big men don't thrive (not when all the little men are taking shots every chance they get). The two games against Euro-league teams don't mean a lot.
Now, otoh, if he continues to play at the level he showed in the first two games through the rest of pre-season and the first month of the season I'll have to change my mind. I hope he does and if he does, I won't mind eating crow one little bit.
However, for now...no Bass isn't in the way.
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How about we get to see Sullinger against actual NBA starting caliber players before anointing him the second coming of Elton Brand or Charles Barkley?
How about everyone realize Doc says KG is a center and KG proved he is a top notch center at that and come to the conclusion KG will be the starting center and playing center
How about we discuss what Darko really is and that is an end of the rotation big? Enough with the talk of starting him or having him be the first big off the bench?
And lastly, how about people start appreciating the job Brandon Bass did last year and what he means to this team? Do you want Big Baby back? How about Mikki Moore or Ryan Hollins? Brandon Bass' defense got much improved in this system last year and his toughness and good consistent shooting is exactly what this team needed. Yes, this team needs some post players and elite rebounders but there is still a significant role left on this team for a player of Brandon Bass' skill set and age.
Give Bass the starting PF job until someone takes it him him.
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Like I said earlier, Sullinger isnt dominating these bigs and thats why he's getting praise.
its that he already looks to be in-sync with the team and knows where to be to grab rebounds and get easy baskets...he takes what the game gives him.
one play that stood out was a play where KG got the ball and sullinger made a cut and got an easy dunk on the pass from garnett...those are plays you usually dont see from rookies
thats not to take anything away from Bass...its not a bad problem to have, to have 2 solid bigs.
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How about we get to see Sullinger against actual NBA starting caliber players before anointing him the second coming of Elton Brand or Charles Barkley?
How about everyone realize Doc says KG is a center and KG proved he is a top notch center at that and come to the conclusion KG will be the starting center and playing center
How about we discuss what Darko really is and that is an end of the rotation big? Enough with the talk of starting him or having him be the first big off the bench?
And lastly, how about people start appreciating the job Brandon Bass did last year and what he means to this team? Do you want Big Baby back? How about Mikki Moore or Ryan Hollins? Brandon Bass' defense got much improved in this system last year and his toughness and good consistent shooting is exactly what this team needed. Yes, this team needs some post players and elite rebounders but there is still a significant role left on this team for a player of Brandon Bass' skill set and age.
Give Bass the starting PF job until someone takes it him him.
This part kills me, what you say before and after is mostly my thoughts, but you lose me there.
So, over Darko's 9 seasons in the league he has PROVEN to at least be a very good backup... no matter how bad he is when thinking about him being a #2 pick! You cannot tell me Darko's numbers aren't just right for the role of backup center! As bad as people say he is, he is much better than anything we have had as backup in like forever! Now, he in no way a starter for this team b/c KG is an elite center in today's NBA, but for a backup (If his head is right. Actually he had those numbers with a bad mentality), he is ideal! If Doc decided to put KG back as a PF (I wouldn't want it)... Darko is no worse than Perkins except that he knew the system and had a better mind but numbers don't suggest he is better than Darko... we haven't had Darko and KG to know if it can work as well as Perk and KG, and it's not like Perk was all that when he first played with KG either!
Darko isn't a great player but I just can't see why his numbers don't suggest (to some people) that he is just right for backup or first big off the bench, b/c I don't count Green as a big... no one is even asking him to be JO, even though that's not a high bar to meet!
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i loved the way Bass played during the regular season, but I cannot get the pictures outta my head of him taking those stupid shots during the playoffs.. he regained the "No Pass Bass" nickname that he earned on his previous teams.
Stupid shots, or just the same shots as the regular season but they just didn't fall?
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How about we get to see Sullinger against actual NBA starting caliber players before anointing him the second coming of Elton Brand or Charles Barkley?
How about everyone realize Doc says KG is a center and KG proved he is a top notch center at that and come to the conclusion KG will be the starting center and playing center
How about we discuss what Darko really is and that is an end of the rotation big? Enough with the talk of starting him or having him be the first big off the bench?
And lastly, how about people start appreciating the job Brandon Bass did last year and what he means to this team? Do you want Big Baby back? How about Mikki Moore or Ryan Hollins? Brandon Bass' defense got much improved in this system last year and his toughness and good consistent shooting is exactly what this team needed. Yes, this team needs some post players and elite rebounders but there is still a significant role left on this team for a player of Brandon Bass' skill set and age.
Give Bass the starting PF job until someone takes it him him.
This part kills me, what you say before and after is mostly my thoughts, but you lose me there.
So, over Darko's 9 seasons in the league he has PROVEN to at least be a very good backup... no matter how bad he is when thinking about him being a #2 pick! You cannot tell me Darko's numbers aren't just right for the role of backup center! As bad as people say he is, he is much better than anything we have had as backup in like forever! Now, he in no way a starter for this team b/c KG is an elite center in today's NBA, but for a backup (If his head is right. Actually he had those numbers with a bad mentality), he is ideal! If Doc decided to put KG back as a PF (I wouldn't want it)... Darko is no worse than Perkins except that he knew the system and had a better mind but numbers don't suggest he is better than Darko... we haven't had Darko and KG to know if it can work as well as Perk and KG, and it's not like Perk was all that when he first played with KG either!
Darko isn't a great player but I just can't see why his numbers don't suggest (to some people) that he is just right for backup or first big off the bench, b/c I don't count Green as a big... no one is even asking him to be JO, even though that's not a high bar to meet!
Because his numbers over inflate his abilities. His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison. And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par. Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.
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Until Jared shows some offensive ability beyond point blank looks at the basket Bass has nothing to fear.
Jared still looks slow and short to me.
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Because his numbers over inflate his abilities.
I think this is true, because his numbers (blocks, boards) bely a proficiency he hasn't show in extended stretches, and the fact that he's historically played most of his 'big minute' seasons at the 5 for terrible teams only exacerbates the fact.
His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison.
I disagree with the Perkins comparison, but maybe that was just hyperbole. Milicic is skilled as an offensive player, at least more skilled than Perkins, but his problems I think arise more from being on teams that don't get him to 'buy in' offensively, and his tendency to check out. He's got better skills than he's often showed.
And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par.
Yes. But it should be noted that he's lately been on some pretty terrible NBA defensive teams, and teams in rebuilding mode/coaching flux. NYK, Minny..its not like its an ideal situation for a mentally broken underachieving center to suddenly 'find' himself.
Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.
This is pretty spot on, and the biggest worry i have about him in terms of him actually being a difference maker for us. If this hurdle can't be addressed, there isn't much room for optimism.
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Because his numbers over inflate his abilities.
I think this is true, because his numbers (blocks, boards) bely a proficiency he hasn't show in extended stretches, and the fact that he's historically played most of his 'big minute' seasons at the 5 for terrible teams only exacerbates the fact.
His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison.
I disagree with the Perkins comparison, but maybe that was just hyperbole. Milicic is skilled as an offensive player, at least more skilled than Perkins, but his problems I think arise more from being on teams that don't get him to 'buy in' offensively, and his tendency to check out. He's got better skills than he's often showed.
And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par.
Yes. But it should be noted that he's lately been on some pretty terrible NBA defensive teams, and teams in rebuilding mode/coaching flux. NYK, Minny..its not like its an ideal situation for a mentally broken underachieving center to suddenly 'find' himself.
Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.
This is pretty spot on, and the biggest worry i have about him in terms of him actually being a difference maker for us. If this hurdle can't be addressed, there isn't much room for optimism.
So IPfactchecker.org rates mr. agneta's comments as "mostly true". ;) :D ;D
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Because his numbers over inflate his abilities.
I think this is true, because his numbers (blocks, boards) bely a proficiency he hasn't show in extended stretches, and the fact that he's historically played most of his 'big minute' seasons at the 5 for terrible teams only exacerbates the fact.
His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison.
I disagree with the Perkins comparison, but maybe that was just hyperbole. Milicic is skilled as an offensive player, at least more skilled than Perkins, but his problems I think arise more from being on teams that don't get him to 'buy in' offensively, and his tendency to check out. He's got better skills than he's often showed.
And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par.
Yes. But it should be noted that he's lately been on some pretty terrible NBA defensive teams, and teams in rebuilding mode/coaching flux. NYK, Minny..its not like its an ideal situation for a mentally broken underachieving center to suddenly 'find' himself.
Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.
This is pretty spot on, and the biggest worry i have about him in terms of him actually being a difference maker for us. If this hurdle can't be addressed, there isn't much room for optimism.
So IPfactchecker.org rates mr. agneta's comments as "mostly true". ;) :D ;D
Pretty much. Mostly the difference we have is whether there is room for 'some conservative optimism' and 'no optimism' about him being a legitimate back-up 5 capable of playing ~20 good minutes.
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Because his numbers over inflate his abilities.
I think this is true, because his numbers (blocks, boards) bely a proficiency he hasn't show in extended stretches, and the fact that he's historically played most of his 'big minute' seasons at the 5 for terrible teams only exacerbates the fact.
His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison.
I disagree with the Perkins comparison, but maybe that was just hyperbole. Milicic is skilled as an offensive player, at least more skilled than Perkins, but his problems I think arise more from being on teams that don't get him to 'buy in' offensively, and his tendency to check out. He's got better skills than he's often showed.
And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par.
Yes. But it should be noted that he's lately been on some pretty terrible NBA defensive teams, and teams in rebuilding mode/coaching flux. NYK, Minny..its not like its an ideal situation for a mentally broken underachieving center to suddenly 'find' himself.
Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.
This is pretty spot on, and the biggest worry i have about him in terms of him actually being a difference maker for us. If this hurdle can't be addressed, there isn't much room for optimism.
So IPfactchecker.org rates mr. agneta's comments as "mostly true". ;) :D ;D
Pretty much. Mostly the difference we have is whether there is room for 'some conservative optimism' and 'no optimism' about him being a legitimate back-up 5 capable of playing ~20 good minutes.
I think there is definitely some conservative optimism. Being a part of a winning program has changed the outlooks and on court results of many an NBA player. I hope he can be more than what I think he is. I just am not going to be surprised if he is a huge disappointment either.
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I'm sure I will be lambasted by some, but I am on record saying I didn't want to resign bass. Looking at our front court situation, I think bass should be behind guys like sully and green and Wilcox. Darko and Collins are true centers so they don't overlap too much with bass.
We are paying bass to be at least a rotation guy, and it looks like he will start, but I kinda wish he wasn't around because have better options.
Sullinger got some wide open dunks against European defenses. Quick, stop the presses, ship Brandon Bass out of town!
Please...
Agreed. Everybody slow down. "No pass Bass!" cut that stuff out, the guy is playing with a pass first PG and is a great mid range shooter. Doc and Rondo want him shooting so he's shooting.
Sullinger is good and will get better, but he's behind Bass right now.
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Because his numbers over inflate his abilities.
I think this is true, because his numbers (blocks, boards) bely a proficiency he hasn't show in extended stretches, and the fact that he's historically played most of his 'big minute' seasons at the 5 for terrible teams only exacerbates the fact.
His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison.
I disagree with the Perkins comparison, but maybe that was just hyperbole. Milicic is skilled as an offensive player, at least more skilled than Perkins, but his problems I think arise more from being on teams that don't get him to 'buy in' offensively, and his tendency to check out. He's got better skills than he's often showed.
And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par.
Yes. But it should be noted that he's lately been on some pretty terrible NBA defensive teams, and teams in rebuilding mode/coaching flux. NYK, Minny..its not like its an ideal situation for a mentally broken underachieving center to suddenly 'find' himself.
Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.
This is pretty spot on, and the biggest worry i have about him in terms of him actually being a difference maker for us. If this hurdle can't be addressed, there isn't much room for optimism.
So IPfactchecker.org rates mr. agneta's comments as "mostly true". ;) :D ;D
Pretty much. Mostly the difference we have is whether there is room for 'some conservative optimism' and 'no optimism' about him being a legitimate back-up 5 capable of playing ~20 good minutes.
I think there is definitely some conservative optimism. Being a part of a winning program has changed the outlooks and on court results of many an NBA player. I hope he can be more than what I think he is. I just am not going to be surprised if he is a huge disappointment either.
Well then I guess I completely agree then. Darko Milicic is like a kid who got a 1500 on his SAT's but flunked out of Brown, and then got a 3.5 at a small state school for a year before getting back into partying too much. You know he's got the raw ability to succeed, and you look at that 3.5 and think, 'Yeah, he can put it together if he just knuckles down and focuses'.
That season in Orlando, that's what we're praying for. That's the ceiling. 23.5 mpg, 18.4 DReb%, 1.8 blocks, stout man defense, energetic team defense, with ample rim defense. He shot terribly, 45.4% TS, and we're not likely looking at a guy who will get 8.0 ppg on 60+ TS%, but there is some hope playing with a full season with Rondo helping him get clear looks at the hoop might help him improve his historically terrible shooting.
Of course, he had a lot of time with Rubio last season, and that was about as helpful as a third..well it wasn't really that helpful.
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Because his numbers over inflate his abilities.
I think this is true, because his numbers (blocks, boards) bely a proficiency he hasn't show in extended stretches, and the fact that he's historically played most of his 'big minute' seasons at the 5 for terrible teams only exacerbates the fact.
His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison.
I disagree with the Perkins comparison, but maybe that was just hyperbole. Milicic is skilled as an offensive player, at least more skilled than Perkins, but his problems I think arise more from being on teams that don't get him to 'buy in' offensively, and his tendency to check out. He's got better skills than he's often showed.
And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par.
Yes. But it should be noted that he's lately been on some pretty terrible NBA defensive teams, and teams in rebuilding mode/coaching flux. NYK, Minny..its not like its an ideal situation for a mentally broken underachieving center to suddenly 'find' himself.
Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.
This is pretty spot on, and the biggest worry i have about him in terms of him actually being a difference maker for us. If this hurdle can't be addressed, there isn't much room for optimism.
So IPfactchecker.org rates mr. agneta's comments as "mostly true". ;) :D ;D
Pretty much. Mostly the difference we have is whether there is room for 'some conservative optimism' and 'no optimism' about him being a legitimate back-up 5 capable of playing ~20 good minutes.
I think there is definitely some conservative optimism. Being a part of a winning program has changed the outlooks and on court results of many an NBA player. I hope he can be more than what I think he is. I just am not going to be surprised if he is a huge disappointment either.
Well then I guess I completely agree then. Darko Milicic is like a kid who got a 1500 on his SAT's but flunked out of Brown, and then got a 3.5 at a small state school for a year before getting back into partying too much. You know he's got the raw ability to succeed, and you look at that 3.5 and think, 'Yeah, he can put it together if he just knuckles down and focuses'.
That season in Orlando, that's what we're praying for. That's the ceiling. 23.5 mpg, 18.4 DReb%, 1.8 blocks, stout man defense, energetic team defense, with ample rim defense. He shot terribly, 45.4% TS, and we're not likely looking at a guy who will get 8.0 ppg on 60+ TS%, but there is some hope playing with a full season with Rondo helping him get clear looks at the hoop might help him improve his historically terrible shooting.
Of course, he had a lot of time with Rubio last season, and that was about as helpful as a third..well it wasn't really that helpful.
Awesome and very funny analogy. I still say you should start your own sports/comedy sports site. Your definitely better at it than Bill Simmons. TP.
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I'm sure I will be lambasted by some, but I am on record saying I didn't want to resign bass. Looking at our front court situation, I think bass should be behind guys like sully and green and Wilcox. Darko and Collins are true centers so they don't overlap too much with bass.
We are paying bass to be at least a rotation guy, and it looks like he will start, but I kinda wish he wasn't around because have better options.
Sullinger got some wide open dunks against European defenses. Quick, stop the presses, ship Brandon Bass out of town!
Please...
Ha. This. TP.