CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: vgulab on October 05, 2012, 05:15:21 PM
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Finally first Celtics game this season. We lost, but the score wasn't the most important thing today. Plus it was a good test because Fenerbahce is a very good team, i have watched these players many times because i'm from europe i follow euro league.
What i saw tonight?
1. Rondo is Rondo. one word - leader, plus hopefully we will see improvment in his shooting this season.
2. KG and PP looked good. No need to talked about them just saying they look fit and not old.
3. Jason Terry and Jeff Green made this bench the best Celtics bench since 2007. Terry's scoring and Green versatility will create great balance between the first and second unit.
4.Courtney Lee - i hope this was just a bad game for him because he was dissapointing in both ends. In the offense he didn't shoot well, didn't create anything and defensivly, lot of points were scored over him. Avery Bradley will be our starter for sure.
5.Jared Sullinger - doesn't look like a rookie. Fitting so well with the team, showing how good rebounder he is and he can also score. He has a nose for rebounds and takes very good positions inside. Only problem could be defending bigger guys who scored easily over him.
6. Fab Melo will see a lot of D-league time.
-lineups
Garnett and Milicic will not play together. Way too slow lineup. KG will be a full time centar. Milicic will come of the bench he will not start.
Rondo - Bradley will be starting backcourt for us.
Bold prediction from myself Sullinger will start. KG and Sully fit really good and bench of Milicic,Bass,Green,Lee,Terry sounds great
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Courtney Lee got screwed by the whistle today. I thought he did a good job of not losing his cool
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i was always high on sullinger. still cannot believe we were abble to draft him.
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6 fouls on him maybe refs made mistakes but also people scored over him, 7pts 0 ast
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Sully and Green looked fantastic. The others will come around in due time.
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i was always high on sullinger. still cannot believe we were abble to draft him.
Sullinger got 5-6 offensive rebounds. Great positioning inside plus 16pts
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Lee is going to be an interesting one to watch. I think his ideal role, will force him to really master the system before he is really effective. He is going to have to really learn the tendencies of the other players, and know how to play off them. That can take time.
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So I'm hearing that Darko looked decent. Given that Fab probably will be D-league, and our other option for a true C is Collins, hopefully Darko can step up.
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I didn't get to see the game, but I keep seeing a lot of positive comments about Jeff and Sully. Can some give a little more insight into how those two played? I'd be most appreciative :)
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So I'm hearing that Darko looked decent. Given that Fab probably will be D-league, and our other option for a true C is Collins, hopefully Darko can step up.
He is big, he is great blocker great rim protector and solid rebounder. Milicic will be a solid role player against teams with bigger centers. He is kind a slow so he will not see to many minutes, i expect a lot of small lineup with KG and Green against teams like Miami but having a 7footer who can block shots is alwais welcome against Howard, Hibbert, Bynum.
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I didn't get to see the game, but I keep seeing a lot of positive comments about Jeff and Sully. Can some give a little more insight into how those two played? I'd be most appreciative :)
Like i sad before Jeff versatility will be huge this season. Big 3 or small 4 Jeff looked healty and ready. He scored i think 15pts. If he was a better rebounder he could be a starter...
Sullinger looked like he is veteran not a rookie. I think he fits good with KG. almost all of his 16pts were near the rim. There he should play, inside. With 5-6 off rebs he got a lot of easy points. He is 6'9 but he is a centar on the offensive end. On the other end there is a problem bigger guys scored over him but if he plays with KG is a solid balance of scoring,defense,rebounding
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It was just a pre-season game, and due to playing time, perhaps Bass couldn't get into a rhythm. But Sullinger looked better, and will certainly push Bass for his spot in the lineup.
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Finally first Celtics game this season. We lost, but the score wasn't the most important thing today. Plus it was a good test because Fenerbahce is a very good team, i have watched these players many times because i'm from europe i follow euro league.
What i saw tonight?
1. Rondo is Rondo. one word - leader, plus hopefully we will see improvment in his shooting this season.
2. KG and PP looked good. No need to talked about them just saying they look fit and not old.
3. Jason Terry and Jeff Green made this bench the best Celtics bench since 2007. Terry's scoring and Green versatility will create great balance between the first and second unit.
4.Courtney Lee - i hope this was just a bad game for him because he was dissapointing in both ends. In the offense he didn't shoot well, didn't create anything and defensivly, lot of points were scored over him. Avery Bradley will be our starter for sure.
5.Jared Sullinger - doesn't look like a rookie. Fitting so well with the team, showing how good rebounder he is and he can also score. He has a nose for rebounds and takes very good positions inside. Only problem could be defending bigger guys who scored easily over him.
6. Fab Melo will see a lot of D-league time.
-lineups
Garnett and Milicic will not play together. Way too slow lineup. KG will be a full time centar. Milicic will come of the bench he will not start.
Rondo - Bradley will be starting backcourt for us.
Bold prediction from myself Sullinger will start. KG and Sully fit really good and bench of Milicic,Bass,Green,Lee,Terry sounds great
I am eja and I approve this message
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When Avery comes back we'll be a nasty starting 5.
Lee is going to take a while but he'll find his niche coming off picks and running all game.
I'm still convinced that the load up of Lee, Terry and Bradley means that we are making a serious move come trade deadline- and that trade probably includes Bass+ Avery+Melo.
It just doesn't make sense to me that we've loaded up on two largish contracts with Terry + Lee with Avery due for re-upping soon.
I feel our bench is going to be monstrous. Sully, Green and Terry, with Wilcox coming back in and Melo bringing energy and a great attitude- wow we're deep, with running legs and SCORING, something we've died without for 3 years now.
Only thing I'm worried about Lee getting continuity quickly with the starters-but his defense is pretty good.
side note...
Did anyone see KG get up off the bench in elation when Fab Melo had that monster block? He's obviously becoming emotionally invested in Melo which means Melo must be doing something right- which is pleasing.
Melo's rotations were decent and his lateral footwork and timing is excellent. He'd be a very good boxer and I've always felt that a rookie big man with good footwork and a good attitude is hard to find in the NBA.
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I didn't get to see the game, but I keep seeing a lot of positive comments about Jeff and Sully. Can some give a little more insight into how those two played? I'd be most appreciative :)
Sullinger continued to show his incredibly soft hands. He caught a couple bullets from Rondo that led to easy baskets and showed his very nice footwork in the post by just avoiding guys. A lot of times he puts up a shot and it might look too hard off the glass but because his touch is so deft it just goes in. We were a visibly better rebounding team with him on the floor.
Jeff was somewhat quiet until the 4th quarter where he was in there with a lot of the rookies. He took over and scored at will like 4 times by just going to his right and putting in little 3 quarter hooks. He even spun one off the far right of the backboard that went in.
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When Avery comes back we'll be a nasty starting 5.
Lee is going to take a while but he'll find his niche coming off picks and running all game.
I'm still convinced that the load up of Lee, Terry and Bradley means that we are making a serious move come trade deadline- and that trade probably includes Bass+ Avery+Melo.
It just doesn't make sense to me that we've loaded up on two largish contracts with Terry + Lee with Avery due for re-upping soon.
I feel our bench is going to be monstrous. Sully, Green and Terry, with Wilcox coming back in and Melo bringing energy and a great attitude- wow we're deep, with running legs and SCORING, something we've died without for 3 years now.
Only thing I'm worried about Lee getting continuity quickly with the starters-but his defense is pretty good.
side note...
Did anyone see KG get up off the bench in elation when Fab Melo had that monster block? He's obviously becoming emotionally invested in Melo which means Melo must be doing something right- which is pleasing.
Melo's rotations were decent and his lateral footwork and timing is excellent. He'd be a very good boxer and I've always felt that a rookie big man with good footwork and a good attitude is hard to find in the NBA.
If we had signed Ray back and not lee it would have been the same situation. I guarantee you Danny would not sign two vets in JET and Ray to trade one of them away. Its the same situation with Courtney lee. Thats just what Doc wants on his team.
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also ray was going to have a no-trade clause
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scal kept comparing jeff green to james worthy, and noted that green was displaying shot creation skills that scal didnt know green had.
I really think green and sully will end up being starters against certain lineups.
Doc said sullinger defended the center position very well as the game went on. Sullinger was one of the first subs in in the 2nd half, after making the most of his first half minutes.
Dont be shocked if sullinger is starting by start of regular season.
If Pierce gets hurt for any stretch of time, he might find himself behind green for total game minutes.
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Some HL for those who may have missed it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzXUz6SG2yc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzXUz6SG2yc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNBx50ddm9Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNBx50ddm9Y)
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When Avery comes back we'll be a nasty starting 5.
Lee is going to take a while but he'll find his niche coming off picks and running all game.
I'm still convinced that the load up of Lee, Terry and Bradley means that we are making a serious move come trade deadline- and that trade probably includes Bass+ Avery+Melo.
It just doesn't make sense to me that we've loaded up on two largish contracts with Terry + Lee with Avery due for re-upping soon.
I feel our bench is going to be monstrous. Sully, Green and Terry, with Wilcox coming back in and Melo bringing energy and a great attitude- wow we're deep, with running legs and SCORING, something we've died without for 3 years now.
Only thing I'm worried about Lee getting continuity quickly with the starters-but his defense is pretty good.
side note...
Did anyone see KG get up off the bench in elation when Fab Melo had that monster block? He's obviously becoming emotionally invested in Melo which means Melo must be doing something right- which is pleasing.
Melo's rotations were decent and his lateral footwork and timing is excellent. He'd be a very good boxer and I've always felt that a rookie big man with good footwork and a good attitude is hard to find in the NBA.
The thoughts that crossed my mind after the game were:
l. Don't have to worry about RR, KG, PP getting in shape.
2. People were right about Sullinger, he looks NBA ready.
3. Was relieved by JG's play...doubts erased.
4. I still love Fab Melo and think he will be contributing bye the end of the year. I agree with your assessment of his footwork...it is terrific for a big man and he seems to have the stamina and speed to make it up and down the court. He plays way longer than his 7 ft....when he raised his arms in defense under the opponent's basket...there is no way most players could shoot over that!
Except for the turnovers, I thought the team looked pretty good, after what? two real practices as a unit and a long flight and time change? Doc will get them all on the same page, and because of the loss, he has the amunition to get them to pay close attention (not that he would have a problem with that anyway).
I am psyched for the next game!
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Loved what I saw from Green today. He's gonna really help off the bench.
Melo stuck out like a sore thumb. Way too raw, definite D-Leaguer this season.
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Man that sucks to hear we lost :'(
I could not finds the game to hear or watch it, so I mowed my yard. ;)
Its been a LONG time since the C's have had a real rebounder, FAT BABY don't count, somebody to battle inside low like Shaq could . I figured Suls was gonna standout , its been so long since we had a REAL rebounder I almost forget now nice it would be to actually see Green shirts bsides ROndo and Bradley under the boards .
GLade to hear Green was good .... a hope Wilcox was able to play.
Sully an't riding the bench ...we are gonna need him , when KG gets doubled , feed the ball to Sully under the bucket.
Doc wants EASY buckets this year , that is the name of Sully game , easy buckets and foulshots... thats why he is gonna play .
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scal kept comparing jeff green to james worthy, and noted that green was displaying shot creation skills that scal didnt know green had.
Haven't watched the game yet but I love the comparison. Worthy had an unconventional game and might have struggled if he hadn't played with Magic. The parallels are obvious. He could get 8 ppg just running the floor when Rondo's out there.
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Been my position that Ray (if healthy)> JET > Lee> Pietrus. I just don't see Lee as a starting SG. I've assumed that the AB we get back will be better than Lee defensively and about the same offensively (11-12 PER). JET is a bit of a defensive liability, but he's a scorer and I think he'll be on the floor at the end of games so teams don't focus strictly on PP now that RA is gone. If instead AB returns and is the player he showed in the second half, we're going to take MIA whose bench still sucks.
Very impressed with Sullinger and it was good to see him outside the helter skelter summer league. Donny and Tommy were comparing him favorably to Leon Powe on the boards and I've been thinking he's an upgrade on BBD without the baggage otherwise. Defintely looks like he'll be a contributor in the rotation immediately. Bass played well in the playoffs and knows the defense so I think he'll get the nod, but I could see Sullinger surpass him sometime in the future.
Green also looked good although it was late in the game. He's in very good shape. I thought Darko played well and within his role. Wilcox better get back soon or Darko will be the backup center. None of the other new guys stood out to me,Otherwise our 25 turnovers will lose a lot of games and the defense on the pick-n-roll was horrendous. Both are fixable and KG who's the best pick-n-roll defender since Russell played 15 minutes. Lee was not impressive, but he got into foul trouble. I think backup PG duties could be an issue also. Terry may make more plays than Ray, but also makes more turnovers and neither Lee or AB have PG distribution skills other than bringing the ball up the floor in a pinch.
Bottom line is that that we'll lose some offense, but gain some defense with AB vs Ray and at the end of ga,mes, we'll be a little worse off assuming JET's on the floor. Otherwise our bench is going to be very good compared to MIA, LAL, or OKC. If Allen is 4th in minutes played in MIA as I expect, does a MIA bench of Chalmers, Haslem, Miller, Lewis and Anthony scare you? Finals Game 2 we lost solely because their bench outscored our 7 points and in game 7 we got 2 points off our bench. We're not going to have games this season with the bench in single digits and my expectation is that if the first unit leaves the second unit with a lead, it will be bigger when they come back. Best 2nd unit by far since KG and Ray came here.
Finally, the opponent was playing their 4th game in 4 days so kudos to them to play so well. They looked very good to me and as good as advertised. Fundamentally very sound + a good number of guys who could be in the NBA or are proven international players. Their fans are in for a good year.
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I am SO happy basketball is back!!!
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I think Lee's problem could have been that he was trying to hard. This guy is suppose to be taking over for Allen, and competing for AB's spot. Could have affected his game a bit being the first time out. Lets see what he does the rest of preseason before he gets written off.
If Green plays like he did today for 85% of the regular season and 99% of the play offs, the trade that every one has been killing DA for will pay off. If he plays aggressive like he did, I could see him in the starting SF spot once PP is done. I could also see him being the second units PG. Remember Pippen took the ball up for the bulls most of the time in their first run and then it was Harper in the second run. In the first run Paxon and Armstrong ended up spotting up in corners in the beginning of the offense. That would be Terry's role.
Milicic looked good. I think he will help a lot if he just goes out and takes what is given to him and plays hard. The tip pass when he was on his butt was great!LOL! but his blocks were nice to see.
Sully, well wow, he played really well for being his first game. I'd almost like to see him start once he learns the deff rotations. Bass just looked off.(maybe he's hear early rumors of him being traded for Smith)LOL!! But Sully's rebounding and put backs were great, and handled passes with ease.
Melo was what you'd expect. No horrible, but not great. But man that block was SWEET!! And the way he moves is impressive. Makes a hard choice to trade him for his potential, or hold on and hope be becomes a solid center in a couple years.
there were more goods than bads. Can't wait for Sunday!
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Haven't heard anything about Bass , he needs to play harder IMO this year evry game,, or be traded to the Hawks
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So much goodness was apparent today!
First, Rondo looked 'poised'. He just plain moved and acted like a leader. 4/4 from the free throw line in addition to draining a nasty 3, all before the first half ended. He's shooting phenomenally, and hopefully this'll continue!
Sullinger was nasty. He is an offensive rebounding machine. He had several offensive putbacks, and he always seems to be in the right place. He caught most of the passes aimed his way, and he seems to have fantastic hands. I still can't believe the Celtics landed him. He's seemed to get the defense down as the game went on too. He'll be great paired with KG, and as others have said, I won't be surprised if he starts...soon even.
Green!! Took over offensively in the 4th quarter like we all wanted him to. I never knew he had such an effective right side drive-hook to the hoop. Just awesome. He's really going to give trouble to most 3's, as he has both height and speed. He'll be a sure go to guy for the bench. With the starters, he just needs to assert himself a bit more...which I'm sure will happen slowly.
Terry looked great. Drained a few threes, initiated the offense well, seems like he's guaranteed to provide teens-level scoring every game.
Lee was off. No worries there. He showed flashes of excellent defensive pressure, but the whistles just weren't going his way. Shot was off as well. However, he is someone I am not at all worried about. I watched Houston a lot...Lee will certainly deliver once he gels. As someone else remarked earlier (I think), he's playing the Ray Allen role, and that is one that takes time to adjust to.
Melo had two or three phenomenal blocks there (one being a goaltend!). He's going to be a great defensive specialist in the future, but for now he's obviously going to be spending the season in Maine. "Rough on offense" is an understatement.
Finally, I liked what Darko brought. He's slow, so he'll need to be paired with another quick big man, but he's got skilled size, and he's moving real well.
Everyone else looked solid. Captain and KG looked fresh and happy! Looks great so far!
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Wow, this team is going to be special...
My feedback is much like what others have stated:
1. KG and Pierce look like they are in fantastic shape - both look fit as a fiddle.
Rondo looks like he's continuing to improve every season. Today the standounds were his aggressiveness (attacking the rim) and his shooting.
He looks more comfortable and more fluent shooting the ball then he ever has, and 6 for 6 from the foul line is very promising. Flashbacks from his 40 point outburst against Miami not in terms of the number of shots, but just in terms of how comfortable he looked taking them.
Sullinger
Soes not look like a rookie at all. he way he moves, the way he gets into positions on the court, the way he communicates verbally - he looks like a guy who's been in the league for years.
His ability to get into position for rebounds is unlike anyone we've had in (IMHO) the entire big 3 era, and he makes it look easy because he does it with great positioning rather then aggressiveness / athleticism. It always looks like he's a magnet, and the rebounds just come straight to him.
His touch inside is similarly impressive. As predicted by others he has seemed to get put off his aim a little when he's had a bigger guy on him, but when he is around the basket with even the slightest big of daylight he is money - not a single shot bouncing off the rim or rolling out.
Also great hands - a few times Rondo threw Sully some tough passes that had me cringing (expecting him not to catch them) but he just grabbed them and put them in.
Love his attitude too. He looks very intelligent and patient on the court, not too eager to prove himself...he just lets the game come to him.
Downside is that admittedly, Sully does look pretty slow for an undersized big man. I don't think he's really any quicker or more agile point-to-point than Big Baby was, and he definately isn't as good at getting to his spots. In every other aspect of the game though he kills Big Baby - more talented offensively, a better rounder and a more mature mentality.
Melo
Seeing Melo play put a huge smile on my face. Yes, his offensive game needs refining (he seemed to struggle to catch passes at times and his shots around the rim were way off) but on defense he was fantastic.
Not only did he have the two emphatic blocks (one of which was a goaltend) but as another mentioned he is LONG. When he simply put his arms straight up on one of those possessions, I can't think of a single NBA player who could have shot over that reach. He's a big guy, and while he's listed at 7'0", out there he looked more like 7'2".
Just as important, his athleticism is off the charts for a 7 footer. His leap, agility and lateral movement are unlike anything I've ever seen from a 260 pound 7 footer - on defense at times he looked almost as quick as Jeff Green.
More importantly Melo plays with a ton of energy. He's never standing still, always active...always moving his feet.
I'm going to make my bold prediction right now - with his energy level and physical gifts, if this kid gains confidence and learns some fundamentals he will be an ELITE center in this league.
Jason Terry
Terry was lights out from three, but that's something I pretty much expected.
The thing that surprised me about Terry is that he is a much better point guard than I expected. I was really expecting more of an Eddie House / Keyon Dooling type player, but Terry looks really comfortable out there handling the ball and making plays. He really does look just as confident as a PG as he does as a SG, and I wasn't expecting that. I'd have no hessitation letting Terry man the point if Rondo is out of the game.
Jeff Green
In the first half I was a little dissapointed with Jeff. I thought he had one of two nice scores, but on defense I thought he seemed to always be a step behind his assignment, and offensively I think he was a bit tentative.
Second half all that changed. He came out and actually reminded me a lot of Lebron in the way he made plays and attacked the basket...only unlike Lebron he looked very smooth and never looked like he was forcing things. No I'm not saying he's as good as Lebron, but I just say flashes in LBJ's game in green.
The first thing I really like about Green's game was his playmaking. He seemed incredibly comfortable handling the ball, being patient, and making the right pass at the right time.
Second thing I liked was his ability to take it to (and finish around) the rim. Every one of his drives to the basket was tightly contested, and he scored on every one of them seemingly effortlessly. They were some TOUGH shots on odd angles, but every one of the dropped softly in. If Jeff plays like this all the time he may well overtake Terry as our best player off the bench.
Darko
Darko left me with mixed feelings. First thing I noticed is that he is bigger then I remember - in both directions! He's really tall, but he's also built like an ox. There is no one in this league who will muscle him around.
Next thing I noticed is that he's quite aggressive going afer blocks.
First downside is that he doesn't IMO look very mobile. In fact Jermaine Oneal almost seems quick (laterall) compared to this guy.
Second downside is that his activity level to me seemed like a mixed bag. He did seem to stand around a lot at times and not really move much, and (though he did have 6 rebounds) he didn't seem to go aggressively after rebounds. A few times opposing teams seemed to get easy rebounds that Darko seemed to just ignore.
As another person stated earlier, I think Darko really MUST be on the floor with an athletic big. With his lack of agility he seems to look a bit lost when he's anywhere more than 5 feet from the basket - hopefully this is more a mental thing, and will impove as he gets more familliar with the Celtics defensive schemes.
When he's close to the basket, I actually like him. He's big and strong, he takes up space, he throws his weight around well, he seems to have a nice touch around the basket, he's a good passer, and he showed a few signs nice hustle play (getting down on the floor).
Overall still undecided about Darko, but I think with more time around the team and if used the right way, he can be very effective for us in a very "Perkins" kinda way.
Courtney Lee
Mixed bag about Lee on both ends of the floor. His defense seemed solid at times, while other times his assignment seemed to get past him like he was standing still.
On offense he struggled with his shot, but that doesn't really concern me - we all know he can shoot, so he probably just had a bad shooting night.
I really liked his agility and athleticism. His showed an ablity to cover a lot of ground quickly on transition (particularly on D) and he was surpisingly explosive with his first step driving to the basket...but on both occasions he didn't seem to do much once he actually got there.
He has the physical gifts, so I think he might just need more time to become accustomed to the Boston sets on both offense and defense. At this stage my biggest criticism is that he seems maybe too relaxed, and seems to lack that killer instinct / aggressiveness that Bradley has on both ends of the floor. This might prove beneficial as we can thrown different looks out there, but right now Bradley is definately my starter (with Lee looking perfect for a 'shooter off the bench' role).
Bass
Bass really did nothing other then prove what I've been saying all along - he's really a bench/role player who was forced into a starting role by circumstance.
He's still got a nice jump shot, and he still can be explosive on the rare occasions when he does put the ball on the floor and drive hard to the basket.
Aside fom that his size still makes him a liability on defense, he still doesn't like passing (took a few shots with multiple defenders on him that he just happened to make) and he still doesn't rebound with much aggressiveness.
Bass is definately better defensively than Sullinger (who struggles to move laterally) but in every other aspect of the game Sullinger looks smoother, more ploshed and just plain better.
Other rookies
Outside of Sully and Melo, none of the other rookies really impressed me.
Smith to me is a shot jacker - when he has the ball he seems to think "shoot" and not much else. Seems hessitant to give the ball up to other players unless he has no other choice - not a fan of thoset type of players in the Boston system.
Joseph really didn't do anything while he was out there, so I'll save judgement until I see more of him.
Christmas didn't show much other than on one play where he showed an explosive first step, but then ended up turning the ball over - still he seems quite athletic for his size, and that's a nice gift to have.
If I had to choose one of those three for a roster spot right now it'd probably be Christmas, but to be honest I'd probably send them all to the D-leager, as neither really looks NBA ready to me so far. I'll save final judgement until I see more of Christmas and Joseph, but Smith I really don't like.
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Been my position that Ray (if healthy)> JET > Lee> Pietrus.
I agree with the rest, but not with this part.
I don't really see Ray being a better player than Jet right now...Terry is a better ball handling, better at creating his own shots and a better playmaker. He can play multiple positions, while Ray can only play one (he's really useless at either PG or SF). He's also a better clutch scorer.
The only advantage I think Ray has over Terry is size, which alone would give him the advantage when defender bigger guards (such as Kobe) but then that's why we have Lee.
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Terry was better than I thought. It seems as though he can play that way consistently and will fit in great.
Lee was worse than I thought. Hope it was just a bad game. I suspect it was. He moved fine, just didn't hit the shots.
Green surprised and can probably continue to give us what he showed today. Hopefully he can keep building on that.
Fab looked very good actually but was thinking too much. He is just not ready for the NBA quite yet; a lot to learn.
Rondo looked much better shooting, could he finally have learned to shoot?
The rest will come.
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Haven't heard anything about Bass , he needs to play harder IMO this year evry game,, or be traded to the Hawks
I have to agree.
Bass has a pretty easy job last year earning the starting spot simply because well...we didn't have anybody else.
Many people forget that it was initiallly KG and JO starting, and then when Jo went down it was KG and Wilcox. It wasn't until Wilcox went down that Bass was moved to the starting lineup, so he was bascally the third string PF and earned that starting spot pretty much by default.
This year not only is Wilcox back, but Bass is going to get some serious pressure from Sullinger. Sully to me is a much better offensive player and (obviously) rebounder, and with KG alongside him his defensive limitations will be much less noticable.
A starting frontcourt of KG + Sullinger could potentially give you 30 points and 16 rebounds a night - plus both are good passers and are fundamentally sound. The combined inside-outside game from that combination could also be mighty impressive.
At the same time starting Sullinger (and Bradley when he returns) gives us a devastating bench of:
C - Darko Milicic
PF - Brandon Bass
SF - Jeff Green
SG - Courney Lee
PG - Jason Terry
What team in the league can compete with that second unit? You have a tough big man to defend the paint, and 4 guys in positions one though four who are bonafide double figure scorers.
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The Cs won't win a championship with Bass as a starter. he's a small, jump shooting PF who doesn't rebound or defend the rim well. Sully needs to step up and become a man right away.
Sullinger won't be a great rim defender, but he can at least give the team some paint presence at the offensive end, which will allow KG to take his jumper with someone under the basket to clean up any misses.
Despite the team's success in the playoffs past year, KG and Bass together are too flawed. They're both mid-range shooters who don't have inside games. The Cs need Sully to emerge as a first team all rookie team guy, and also need one of their 7 footers to step up and play real minutes.
The Cs are going to have plenty of firepower. They need inside muscle, defensive paint protectors, and defensive rebounders.
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Haven't heard anything about Bass , he needs to play harder IMO this year evry game,, or be traded to the Hawks
I have to agree.
Bass has a pretty easy job last year earning the starting spot simply because well...we didn't have anybody else.
Many people forget that it was initiallly KG and JO starting, and then when Jo went down it was KG and Wilcox. It wasn't until Wilcox went down that Bass was moved to the starting lineup, so he was bascally the third string PF and earned that starting spot pretty much by default.
This year not only is Wilcox back, but Bass is going to get some serious pressure from Sullinger. Sully to me is a much better offensive player and (obviously) rebounder, and with KG alongside him his defensive limitations will be much less noticable.
A starting frontcourt of KG + Sullinger could potentially give you 30 points and 16 rebounds a night - plus both are good passers and are fundamentally sound. The combined inside-outside game from that combination could also be mighty impressive.
At the same time starting Sullinger (and Bradley when he returns) gives us a devastating bench of:
C - Darko Milicic
PF - Brandon Bass
SF - Jeff Green
SG - Courney Lee
PG - Jason Terry
What team in the league can compete with that second unit? You have a tough big man to defend the paint, and 4 guys in positions one though four who are bonafide double figure scorers.
That is 100% false. When JO went down, Bass was inserted into the lineup instantly. Wilcox was only in the starting lineup when KG was out.
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move Pierce to SG. Start Jeff Green at SF... trade Bradley, Bass and Sully for a legit big man or Josh Smith... This Roster still seems a little weird to me. A lot of average pieces who are slightly redundant.
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Let's not overreact to ONE pre-season game. Does anyone remember pre-season 2008 when people (including me) were clamoring for Darius Miles to make the team instead of Scal after Miles had an impressive output in his first pre-season game as a Celtic? Yeah what happened? He sucked throughout the rest of the pre-season! Let's not jump to conclusions right away.
I loved what I saw from Green and Sullinger today and I was satisfied with Darko and JET. Lee was disappointing, but again, this was one pre-season game. Let's not jump to the, "Sully should start over Bass!" and "Green's going to make the leap!" conclusions just yet.
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Haven't heard anything about Bass , he needs to play harder IMO this year evry game,, or be traded to the Hawks
I have to agree.
Bass has a pretty easy job last year earning the starting spot simply because well...we didn't have anybody else.
Many people forget that it was initiallly KG and JO starting, and then when Jo went down it was KG and Wilcox. It wasn't until Wilcox went down that Bass was moved to the starting lineup, so he was bascally the third string PF and earned that starting spot pretty much by default.
This year not only is Wilcox back, but Bass is going to get some serious pressure from Sullinger. Sully to me is a much better offensive player and (obviously) rebounder, and with KG alongside him his defensive limitations will be much less noticable.
A starting frontcourt of KG + Sullinger could potentially give you 30 points and 16 rebounds a night - plus both are good passers and are fundamentally sound. The combined inside-outside game from that combination could also be mighty impressive.
At the same time starting Sullinger (and Bradley when he returns) gives us a devastating bench of:
C - Darko Milicic
PF - Brandon Bass
SF - Jeff Green
SG - Courney Lee
PG - Jason Terry
What team in the league can compete with that second unit? You have a tough big man to defend the paint, and 4 guys in positions one though four who are bonafide double figure scorers.
That is 100% false. When JO went down, Bass was inserted into the lineup instantly. Wilcox was only in the starting lineup when KG was out.
Looks like you're right on that one, I must be imagining things!!
I was sure that we had KG+Wilcox player together for a while, but that must have been when Wilcox was coming off the bench.
Regardless of the fact, I still don't see Bass as a definitive starting calibre PF.
He's borderline.
For a bad team (or maybe even a borderline playoff team) he is worthy of a starting spot, but for a good playoff team he's really just a strong rotation bench player.
He's just not good enough a rebounder, defender, passer or inside scorer to qualify as a starting PF on a contending team, and the fact that he's WAY undersized just emphasises those weaknesses even further.
He's basically saved by his muscle, athleticism, work ethic and his mid-range jumper.
Sullinger on the other hand only really has two weakenesses, and they are his athleticism and his defense. In every other area of the game he looks to be very good, just as advertised.
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Just to point out some team trends from todays game, I think the biggest areas that we need to improve are better rebounding, fewer turnovers and learning assignments.
The rebounding will improve some as the preseason moves on. I think the most important thing is having the right combinations of players on the floor as much as possible. The combinations of Sulllinger and KG, Darko and Bass might be good solutions. Jeff Green will grab a few rebounds more than he did tonite as will Paul Pierce.
The turnovers will decrease as people learn our system. All the newcomers are learning Rondo and he is learning them. Practice with spacing, timing and being alert will help execution. Jason Terry was already very much in tune with the starting unit as was Jeff Green.
The defensive assignments and offensive spacing were shaky tonite IMO when the starting unit went out. This is again a matter or players getting used to each other and learning their roles. The two new guys who showed the most promise but still need a lot of work before we put them in the rotation were Sullinger and Darko IMO.
I am sure Doc will spend some time on film with the whole team and illustrate what worked and what didnt. KG and Rondo will show the new guys on the practice floor.
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What I saw was Courtney Lee's ugly jumpshot. Had me longing for the Dooling flick-from-his-ear shot.
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Haven't heard anything about Bass , he needs to play harder IMO this year evry game,, or be traded to the Hawks
I have to agree.
Bass has a pretty easy job last year earning the starting spot simply because well...we didn't have anybody else.
Many people forget that it was initiallly KG and JO starting, and then when Jo went down it was KG and Wilcox. It wasn't until Wilcox went down that Bass was moved to the starting lineup, so he was bascally the third string PF and earned that starting spot pretty much by default.
This year not only is Wilcox back, but Bass is going to get some serious pressure from Sullinger. Sully to me is a much better offensive player and (obviously) rebounder, and with KG alongside him his defensive limitations will be much less noticable.
A starting frontcourt of KG + Sullinger could potentially give you 30 points and 16 rebounds a night - plus both are good passers and are fundamentally sound. The combined inside-outside game from that combination could also be mighty impressive.
At the same time starting Sullinger (and Bradley when he returns) gives us a devastating bench of:
C - Darko Milicic
PF - Brandon Bass
SF - Jeff Green
SG - Courney Lee
PG - Jason Terry
What team in the league can compete with that second unit? You have a tough big man to defend the paint, and 4 guys in positions one though four who are bonafide double figure scorers.
That is 100% false. When JO went down, Bass was inserted into the lineup instantly. Wilcox was only in the starting lineup when KG was out.
Looks like you're right on that one, I must be imagining things!!
I was sure that we had KG+Wilcox player together for a while, but that must have been when Wilcox was coming off the bench.
Regardless of the fact, I still don't see Bass as a definitive starting calibre PF.
He's borderline.
For a bad team (or maybe even a borderline playoff team) he is worthy of a starting spot, but for a good playoff team he's really just a strong rotation bench player.
He's just not good enough a rebounder, defender, passer or inside scorer to qualify as a starting PF on a contending team, and the fact that he's WAY undersized just emphasises those weaknesses even further.
He's basically saved by his muscle, athleticism, work ethic and his mid-range jumper.
Sullinger on the other hand only really has two weakenesses, and they are his athleticism and his defense. In every other area of the game he looks to be very good, just as advertised.
Just his defense huh? Good thing that's not important or anything. It would be nice if Sully showed he could play D well enough to start but I'm not expecting it.
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move Pierce to SG. Start Jeff Green at SF... trade Bradley, Bass and Sully for a legit big man or Josh Smith... This Roster still seems a little weird to me. A lot of average pieces who are slightly redundant.
Pierce would get destroyed playing guard, imagine pierce defending beal or Eric Gordon, just doesn't work, he's too slow IMO
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Did Green and Sully get so many minutes because they were so good? Or was it Doc's decision? Curious because this might mean we're seeing Sully on the floor this year.
Hopefully I get my hands on the game.
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Just his defense huh? Good thing that's not important or anything. It would be nice if Sully showed he could play D well enough to start but I'm not expecting it.
Well the problem is that Bass himself is not a fantastic defensive player, so it's not like you're going from an elite defensive player down to a below average one - you're going from a barely average defender down to a below average one.
IMHO that drop off isn't as significant and the gain Sullinger provides with his inside scoring and his rebounding (especially offensive rebounding).
Once Bradley returns (I'm assuming will start) out starting lineup of Rondo, Bradley, Pierce and Garnett is an elite defensive lineup...so we can afford to play a below average defender at PF becuase the rest of that starting lineup is good enough defensively to handle the load.
On the other hand, our bench (Terry, Lee, Green, Milicic) is overall somewhere between average and just above average defensively. Putting Bass into that lineup at the PF position would mean that the overall unit is solid (if not exceptional) defensively, and against opposing second units that's all we really need.
Also KG has above average athleticism and mobility for a center, so playing a less athletic big (like Sullinger) alongside him isn't a big problem - if he gets beat KG can slide over and help.
On the bench however, pairing Darko with Sullinger would lead to a front court slower then any pair with an average age of 24 years has any right to be. Any team that plays a small, athletic front court would destroy us.
Also offensively, Bass and KG are both more or less jump shooters at this point in their careers. Having both of those guys on the court at once means we have no real inside scoring presence. Pairing Sullinger and KG gives us an inside-outside attack that will be very tough to defend because Sullinger (in Doc's words) "will destroy smaller fours" while KG will force opposing fives to step out and defend his jumper. It'll be a difficult combo to defend, especially with Pierce, Bradley and Rondo also out there.
Of the bench Milicic + Bass also gives us a more ballanced lineup. Bass is very athletic enough to defend the Pick&Roll and is also deadly from midrange, while Darko can protect (and clog up) the paint, hit the boards, and get occasional inside shots and put-backs.
I just think those two lineups are most deadly because they allow us to always have a ballanced attack on the cout.
Wilcox is also big, strong, athletic and skilled enough that he can play either PF or C for either of those two lineups.
While KG is still a elite defensive rebounder, he is a quite mediocre offensive rebouder. I think having him out there on the court with Sullinger (along with Pierce and Rondo) could give us one of the better rebounding starting lineups in the league.
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Haven't watched entire game, yet - but I saw a bit of Jeff Green in that 2nd half.
The man did WORK. I even heard one of the announcers make a James Worthy comparison.
I can't wait for Oct 30. The team that MIA faces THEN will be a LOT different from the one they faced in May.
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move Pierce to SG. Start Jeff Green at SF... trade Bradley, Bass and Sully for a legit big man or Josh Smith... This Roster still seems a little weird to me. A lot of average pieces who are slightly redundant.
Pierce would get destroyed playing guard, imagine pierce defending beal or Eric Gordon, just doesn't work, he's too slow IMO
But then imagine those guys trying to guard Pierce? I've seen Pierce do a solid job on D against guys like Kobe and Wade, who like to take smaller guards in the post. Pierce's best years statistically were at the 2.
And with Green emerging as probably the 4th best player on the team it seems like the only way to get him into the starting lineup. He's clearly better as a 3 than a 4 and needs to play more than 18 minutes a game if Pierce plays about 30 a game at the 3.
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move Pierce to SG. Start Jeff Green at SF... trade Bradley, Bass and Sully for a legit big man or Josh Smith... This Roster still seems a little weird to me. A lot of average pieces who are slightly redundant.
Pierce would get destroyed playing guard, imagine pierce defending beal or Eric Gordon, just doesn't work, he's too slow IMO
But then imagine those guys trying to guard Pierce? I've seen Pierce do a solid job on D against guys like Kobe and Wade, who like to take smaller guards in the post. Pierce's best years statistically were at the 2.
And with Green emerging as probably the 4th best player on the team it seems like the only way to get him into the starting lineup. He's clearly better as a 3 than a 4 and needs to play more than 18 minutes a game if Pierce plays about 30 a game at the 3.
Someone suggested JG guards the 2.
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Pierce would be as much or a mismatch at this basket as any allegedly too quick SG would be for Pierce to cover at the other end.
I wouldn't be petrified that an Eric Gordon was going to "destroy" Pierce. I would actually be surprised that Gordon was actually healthy enough to be playing an NBA game
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And with Green emerging as probably the 4th best player on the team it seems like the only way to get him into the starting lineup. He's clearly better as a 3 than a 4 and needs to play more than 18 minutes a game if Pierce plays about 30 a game at the 3.
And if this happens, how exactly do we find playing time for Courtney Lee, Jason Terry and Avery Bradley?
P.s.
I have more faith in Jeff Green at the 4 then Pierce at
the 2...
I can imagine that Pierce trying to guard more athletic two's will look somewhat like Bass last season trying to guard Lebron...
The end result? Can't stay with the man, other defenders need to come over to help, increases the risk of the interior defenders (and/or Pierce) picking up a quick foul.
I'm sure Piece would have no problems playing the 2 spot against bigger, stronger and/or less mobile SGs (Joe Johnson, Ray Allen, etc) but against the quicker guys out there I don't tink the result would be pleasant.
More importantly again, just because Green may become our 4th best player, doesn't mean we need him starting. Look at the approach that SAS have taken with Ginobilli (and now S Jackson), and the Thunder with Harden - each of those guys is a top 3 player on their team, buy they have been more valuable providing consistent scoring off the bench.
With Terry and Green we basically have two James Harden's now, and I kinda like that we have this kind of firepower on our second unit.
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stayed up and watched the replay of the whole thing for the first time.
Pierce finally looks healthy. ;D
KG seems fit as well.
We are so freakin Lucky ... to have Sully and Darko. These guys FINALLY gave the Celtics a semblance of rebounding under the basket. I was glued to the TV watching them work.
Sully , Darko and Green played really well. Considering Darkos short time with team , he was great. FIghting , knocking heads, going after the ball anytime it was reboundable. Finally ...whew!!
Sully is good already , he is force in the paint. He has a skill no one other than ROndo has, Barkley's nose for the ball and getting it up and in over taller guys. He should move Bass out by mid season. Doc loves this kid ( SUlly is gonna play ) he plays years ahead of his age, he adds such a critical element to the Celtics game. He needs alotof work on D , but he is what 20 years old ??? WOW!!!
Green played like James Worthy , smooth and precise. He needs to be IN the game WHEN Pierce is out for us to win.
Liked JET, he poped em in like Allen right on time. He also played smart "D", not wasting movement.
Even though C. Lee 's shot was off , he played intense "D" and hussled after every ball. "A" for effort.
If we had Bradley to stick with "BO" we would have destroyed them with our second team. They are built the same and speed , it would have been a aewsome matchup.
This game showed again HOW IMPORTANT Avery is to this team playing against a team with a lightening quick guard. Had he been in, the whole game would have changed with his defensive intensity on the ball, not letting BO have his way. in the lane.
We could use Josh Smith , but NOT at the expense of Bradley and Sully.
Offensively in my eyes Celtics rated B+ , Defensively I give em a C rating , we REALLY miss Bradley. Rondo and AB drive the intensity at the point of the ball at BOTH ends of the court.
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[dang] I really want to watch the game. The more I read about it the more excited I am.
celtics.com says Rondo scored 7 in a row. 3-9 but I've seen people compliment his play a lot. Only 1 guy knocked him on his TO's.
So many questions. I need the freaking game.
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Sullinger, already has this defined calmness and poise and just lets the game just flow to him. Incredibly skilled player for a rookie. I'd also suggest he could be a very special player. He will start over Bass I'm guessing by the end of this year or next year just due to his nose for the ball and great positioning.
Green also looked comfortable and Doc really showcased his versatility. What I think we all could take away is that in the 4th, Jeff ran the show and also seemed to score at will. I think we can all be excited and hopeful that he will be a major piece this season as he continues to get his legs under him.
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My game one thoughts;
Rondo is going to have a great year. Sully is going to provide a lot for us, I like him already. I'm gonna love terry and green off the bench. I think green is going to be huge for us this year which is exciting. I actually like darko in the middle and hope he gets play time... For some odd reason, and I don't know what it is, I don't think I'm going to like Courtney lee...
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move Pierce to SG. Start Jeff Green at SF... trade Bradley, Bass and Sully for a legit big man or Josh Smith... This Roster still seems a little weird to me. A lot of average pieces who are slightly redundant.
Pierce would get destroyed playing guard, imagine pierce defending beal or Eric Gordon, just doesn't work, he's too slow IMO
But then imagine those guys trying to guard Pierce? I've seen Pierce do a solid job on D against guys like Kobe and Wade, who like to take smaller guards in the post. Pierce's best years statistically were at the 2.
And with Green emerging as probably the 4th best player on the team it seems like the only way to get him into the starting lineup. He's clearly better as a 3 than a 4 and needs to play more than 18 minutes a game if Pierce plays about 30 a game at the 3.
Someone suggested JG guards the 2.
It's been a few years since I've seen Jeff Green defend the two for any period of time ... but he really struggled there when asked to defend SGs early in his career.
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I only got to catch a little more than the first quarter, but what I saw of Sully I thought he was kind of slow. What impressions did others get of his speed up and down the court?
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It's been a few years since I've seen Jeff Green defend the two for any period of time
The same can't be said for Pierce? Neither should play it full time, but anytime they're in there together I think it's painstakingly obvious that JG is the guard.
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It's been a few years since I've seen Jeff Green defend the two for any period of time
The same can't be said for Pierce? Neither should play it full time, but anytime they're in there together I think it's painstakingly obvious that JG is the guard.
I trust Pierce more = Experience and superior fundamentals / positioning defensively.
I would try both guys out defending SGs but I would expect Pierce to be the better option.
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Melo's block
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS22hBSyggU
game highlights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzh_Tg67y0Q&feature=watch_response_rev
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some things that I took away from the game
1. This might be the first time Doc gives a rookie meaningful time....Sullinger is the real-deal..he looks like a Vet out there with his decision-making and poise...plus it helps that he has a nose for the ball, and plays under the basket
2. maybe its too early, but gone are the days our bench scores 2 points....with Terry, Green, Sullinger(and Lee when bradley comes back) this bench is going to have some serious firepower.
3. Rondo is going to have a good year...he was hitting his free throws and Jumper. if he is more aggressive offensively the league better watch out
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Melo's block
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS22hBSyggU
game highlights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzh_Tg67y0Q&feature=watch_response_rev
Melo's got some crazy athleticism, there.
He moved quickly and was in the air fast enough to get all ball on that one.
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Green also looked comfortable and Doc really showcased his versatility. What I think we all could take away is that in the 4th, Jeff ran the show and also seemed to score at will. I think we can all be excited and hopeful that he will be a major piece this season as he continues to get his legs under him.
Watching the game I think Green should be the point-forward for the 2nd Unit. Terry is an okay ball handler that works best off the ball and pick-and-rolls. Green if he continues to play like he did in the 4th Quarter knows how to make the right play. He showcased a great combination of attack and making the right play.
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I have to say with all he attention on the new guys, I think Rondo kinda slipped under the radar.
It's worth mentioning that his shot looked amazingly smooth and effortless, and he looked more assertive attacking the basket - I think he just played with speed the entire time he was out there.
If he plays like this all season he could easilly have a 17/5/12 season.
Plus Rondo has always played more minutes than the 'big 3' so he's always spent SOME time on the court with the bench guys. With the extra scoring our second unit has this year, I can see his assist numbers - as hard as it is to believe - actually going up.
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I have to say with all he attention on the new guys, I think Rondo kinda slipped under the radar.
It's worth mentioning that his shot looked amazingly smooth and effortless, and he looked more assertive attacking the basket - I think he just played with speed the entire time he was out there.
If he plays like this all season he could easilly have a 17/5/12 season.
Plus Rondo has always played more minutes than the 'big 3' so he's always spent SOME time on the court with the bench guys. With the extra scoring our second unit has this year, I can see his assist numbers - as hard as it is to believe - actually going up.
He looked smooth and stong and healthy and I agree that he is poised to have a great season.
His foul shots went in but there is something about his shot that has never looked right. It's not that it's a terribly weird style like Keeyon's or Shawn Marion's but I always feel like if it goes in, it's more by chance than skill. Actually, it reminds me of my own shot. Can someone who knows the science of shooting describe what is wrong with his shot?
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Pierce and Sullinger a step slow on defense. Need to see more; but hopefully Sullinger will not be a defensive liability. He is solid in the post. But pick and roll defense was pretty bad all around.
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I have to say with all he attention on the new guys, I think Rondo kinda slipped under the radar.
It's worth mentioning that his shot looked amazingly smooth and effortless, and he looked more assertive attacking the basket - I think he just played with speed the entire time he was out there.
If he plays like this all season he could easilly have a 17/5/12 season.
Plus Rondo has always played more minutes than the 'big 3' so he's always spent SOME time on the court with the bench guys. With the extra scoring our second unit has this year, I can see his assist numbers - as hard as it is to believe - actually going up.
I agree, but more like 17/8/12. His 3 looks smooth and his form looks a lot better. Let's see what happens after all the preseason is over, cuz I wanna see if he is consistent with his play.
Loved Sully, I believe he can help us right away and perhaps take Bass' starting position.
Fab looks raw, but definitely full of potential. He should spend some time in the D League to improve his game but he's worth the wait.
I am so excited for this season to start!!!!
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His foul shots went in but there is something about his shot that has never looked right. It's not that it's a terribly weird style like Keeyon's or Shawn Marion's but I always feel like if it goes in, it's more by chance than skill. Actually, it reminds me of my own shot. Can someone who knows the science of shooting describe what is wrong with his shot?
I think there have been two issues. First, his right elbow drifts outside his body. Second, his off hand leaves the ball too early (it should "guide" the shot almost to when it's released).
Both looked better to me on his jumpers yesterday, even though he only took a couple.