CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: CelticHooligan3 on October 03, 2012, 08:19:09 AM
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http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/223795/Royce_White_Remains_Absent_From_Rockets_Camp
Anyone else glad we didn't draft this kid, right about now? I know i am, and i was one of the ones clamoring for Danny to take the risk. I feel bad for the kid. And the Rockets too. But i can't help but feel like we might have dodged a bullet.
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yeah, im also glad we didnt pick him. But hopefully this kid can turn his life around and have a long future in the NBA
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CH3 - I'm sure you didn't intentionally do it and was unaware of it, but that link of yours has a virus attached to it.
My Anti-Virus software blocked it.
I googled the article and found another link -
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/20435610/royce-white-out-of-training-camp-because-of-anxiety-issues
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Thats pretty rough but it makes sense about having a strategy. I also suffer from anxiety and one of the worst parts is the anticpatory anxiety that I get. The worry about a particulart situation is often much worse than the situation itself. A big part of my dealing with it involves planning and preperation for the situation in an attempt to put my mind at ease and curb the issue.
Luckily royce probably has some of the best people helping him with this, so I hope he can get better.
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CH3 - I'm sure you didn't intentionally do it and was unaware of it, but that link of yours has a virus attached to it.
My Anti-Virus software blocked it.
I googled the article and found another link -
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/20435610/royce-white-out-of-training-camp-because-of-anxiety-issues
Sorry GreenFaith. I just got the article off the regular RealGM site. I had no idea. Thanks for the other link though. No idea why that happened. I usually never have any problems with RealGM.
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CH3 - I'm sure you didn't intentionally do it and was unaware of it, but that link of yours has a virus attached to it.
My Anti-Virus software blocked it.
I googled the article and found another link -
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/20435610/royce-white-out-of-training-camp-because-of-anxiety-issues
Sorry GreenFaith. I just got the article off the regular RealGM site. I had no idea. Thanks for the other link though. No idea why that happened. I usually never have any problems with RealGM.
No problem, I'm sure it's not your fault.
I would've had no idea of what it was unless I had actually read about it at my school.
No worries.
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even if he would have gotten to boston...no way the Cs would have picked him...
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I'm sure this will be no big deal in a couple weeks. But still just another reason why it is never good to talk yourself into a player like White. Major red flags, and less than spectacular NBA skills is not a combination to make a quality NBA player.
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I'm sure this will be no big deal in a couple weeks. But still just another reason why it is never good to talk yourself into a player like White. Major red flags, and less than spectacular NBA skills is not a combination to make a quality NBA player.
He may turn into a prime years Boris Diaw on steroids. Thats approaching spectacular.
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If Sully were gone and White was available Danny would have taken him. I hope things go well for this kid.
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I'm sure this will be no big deal in a couple weeks. But still just another reason why it is never good to talk yourself into a player like White. Major red flags, and less than spectacular NBA skills is not a combination to make a quality NBA player.
He may turn into a prime years Boris Diaw on steroids. Thats approaching spectacular.
I think Diaw was longer, a better athlete, and a better shooter.
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I don't get this at all. How did he get to games in the Big 12? When he needed to get from Iowa to Texas and back how did he do it?
Plus I'm assuming at some point the Rockets asked him straight out if this would be a problem so either he lied, changed his mind and decided to back out of whatever he told them, or they knew this and this should be a non-issue.
If I'm the Rockets I'm probably pretty mad right now. I'm not sure it's wise for them to treat him any differently. I mean when the game is down the street fine, but from what I'm hearing I bet his idea of driveable is pretty different than theirs.
And the sad thing is he isn't any safer in a bus at all, and may be much less safe. If that were the case and I were the Rockets I'd flat out refuse. I'd say "We need you actually safe, not to feel safe while actually being less safe. We also need you somewhat rested and ready to go, not driving all day"
They have a million rookies. They can't be baby sitting one of them or wondering where he is. It's like "No. You gotta be here. You can't skype to team meetings from a bus or hotel".
I'd want to hear what he considers driveable and a coherent plan both logistically and financially. And he better not be picking up hitchikers and the other members of the team can't go with him.
If it's so driveable and simple then maybe they should all take the bus.
But even some of the closest NBA cities. Take Boston to NYC. No way. That's a 6 hour drive. No way. Gotta fly.
It will be very interesting to see how this turns out.
If this were a different situation it wouldn't work. Oh yeah I want to do business in China on a regular basis but I can't fly. Well then you can't do it. The entire modern sports world is based on flight. What happens when Stern gets his team in London?
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I don't get this at all. How did he get to games in the Big 12? When he needed to get from Iowa to Texas and back how did he do it?
Plus I'm assuming at some point the Rockets asked him straight out if this would be a problem so either he lied, changed his mind and decided to back out of whatever he told them, or they knew this and this should be a non-issue.
If I'm the Rockets I'm probably pretty mad right now. I'm not sure it's wise for them to treat him any differently. I mean when the game is down the street fine, but from what I'm hearing I bet his idea of driveable is pretty different than theirs.
And the sad thing is he isn't any safer in a bus at all, and may be much less safe. If that were the case and I were the Rockets I'd flat out refuse. I'd say "We need you actually safe, not to feel safe while actually being less safe. We also need you somewhat rested and ready to go, not driving all day"
They have a million rookies. They can't be baby sitting one of them or wondering where he is. It's like "No. You gotta be here. You can't skype to team meetings from a bus or hotel".
I'd want to hear what he considers driveable and a coherent plan both logistically and financially. And he better not be picking up hitchikers and the other members of the team can't go with him.
If it's so driveable and simple then maybe they should all take the bus.
But even some of the closest NBA cities. Take Boston to NYC. No way. That's a 6 hour drive. No way. Gotta fly.
It will be very interesting to see how this turns out.
If this were a different situation it wouldn't work. Oh yeah I want to do business in China on a regular basis but I can't fly. Well then you can't do it. The entire modern sports world is based on flight. What happens when Stern gets his team in London?
Just for the record, having anxiety about flying isnt necessarily about fear of crashing. lots of other things go into it. And most people with Anxiety know that their fears are not rational but they can't get their body to calm down no matter what their mind tells them is safe. So the rockets taking that course of action is likely to frustrate him beyond belief.
The Rockets probably knew what they were getting into when they drafted him. When they drafted them they had to know they were getting a guy that may have to be treated differently.
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I don't get this at all. How did he get to games in the Big 12? When he needed to get from Iowa to Texas and back how did he do it?
Plus I'm assuming at some point the Rockets asked him straight out if this would be a problem so either he lied, changed his mind and decided to back out of whatever he told them, or they knew this and this should be a non-issue.
If I'm the Rockets I'm probably pretty mad right now. I'm not sure it's wise for them to treat him any differently. I mean when the game is down the street fine, but from what I'm hearing I bet his idea of driveable is pretty different than theirs.
And the sad thing is he isn't any safer in a bus at all, and may be much less safe. If that were the case and I were the Rockets I'd flat out refuse. I'd say "We need you actually safe, not to feel safe while actually being less safe. We also need you somewhat rested and ready to go, not driving all day"
They have a million rookies. They can't be baby sitting one of them or wondering where he is. It's like "No. You gotta be here. You can't skype to team meetings from a bus or hotel".
I'd want to hear what he considers driveable and a coherent plan both logistically and financially. And he better not be picking up hitchikers and the other members of the team can't go with him.
If it's so driveable and simple then maybe they should all take the bus.
But even some of the closest NBA cities. Take Boston to NYC. No way. That's a 6 hour drive. No way. Gotta fly.
It will be very interesting to see how this turns out.
If this were a different situation it wouldn't work. Oh yeah I want to do business in China on a regular basis but I can't fly. Well then you can't do it. The entire modern sports world is based on flight. What happens when Stern gets his team in London?
Just for the record, having anxiety about flying isnt necessarily about fear of crashing. lots of other things go into it. And most people with Anxiety know that their fears are not rational but they can't get their body to calm down no matter what their mind tells them is safe. So the rockets taking that course of action is likely to frustrate him beyond belief.
The Rockets probably knew what they were getting into when they drafted him. When they drafted them they had to know they were getting a guy that may have to be treated differently.
You think the Rockets knew he wasn't going to show up to training camp? I think that maybe both Royce and the Rockets aren't being entirely truthful here.
On Royce's part he says he wants to be able to drive to games. But he had all summer to drive to training camp. He could be with the team right now. He could have brought these issues up over the summer. The way this has suddenly popped up now makes me think he either isn't getting treatment or the treatment isn't very effective or something. He wants us to think he can't show up on time for training camp, but can show up for games. I don't buy that. I want to know how.
On the Rockets part both Morey and McHale say they have no idea when he'll be there. Obviously they have a better idea than we do. They must have known something about this and for their part they also could have worked with him this summer. But they didn't.
I am thinking in terms of his career at Iowa State as his baseline. As far as I can tell he didn't miss a lot of games in college. This year's schedule the Cyclones have several times where they have to get to Texas, then back to Iowa, then back to Texas in a week. How did he used to do that?
Now take his new NBA schedule. Take a look at Jan 8 to Jan 21
Tue, Jan 8
vs
Los Angeles
Wed, Jan 9
@ New Orleans
Fri, Jan 11
@ Boston
Sat, Jan 12
@ Philadelphia
Tue, Jan 15
vs
Los Angeles
Wed, Jan 16
@ Dallas
Fri, Jan 18
@ Indiana
Sat, Jan 19
@ Minnesota
Mon, Jan 21
@ Charlotte
What is he going to do? Miss games?
Flying is a requirement of being an NBA basketball player. Realistically if he can't fly it's like he's injured or in jail. Nobody will want a player like that. I think Royce has to make some decisions right now. Either he says "My head is sick. One of the most important parts of my body is sick just like a knee and it will often prevent me from being with the team" or he says "I can be with the team".
I know anxiety isn't switch you can turn on and off and that's what worries me about this for him. I was under the impression this was not a huge issue and was put out there by other agents, but apparently he can't even make it to the first day of work when he has all summer to get there. It sounds pretty severe to me, which is what is so puzzling, because how did he do this at ISU?
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the constant media scrutiny of his mental health is going to compound his problems greatly.
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Earlier Wednesday, White released a statement that detailed his refusal to join the team until a plan to address his "long-term health" was in place.
"There are often negative consequences to mental illness when not given the proper support," said White, according to a statement released through his publicist, California-based China Myers. "Often, those consequences are more severe for the surrounding people than the sufferer him/herself. I am not willing to allow those consequences to befall on myself or others close to me.
"It causes me anxiety to know that serious consequences could happen if I do not express what I deal with, or if I am not truthful enough to ask for what I need to be healthy. For me, hiding is no longer a healthy option in treating my anxiety or OCD, so I have asked for some help from the organization to ensure long-term health for myself.
"It has been determined that without a specific plan in place, the current workplace is not healthy for me. I feel that it is essential to formulate the right plan for a better chance of execution, despite other timelines or agendas. The most important agenda to me is a plan that is healthy. Therefore, a plan has been requested that will support a healthy work environment. In addition to this, it has been requested that the standard requirements for players in regards to this plan be voided because it is not a standard situation.
"It is regrettable that I cannot be currently present, but long-term health obviously should be the most important thing. I will continue to champion the cause for mental illness being met with understanding; if not, the ramifications are dangerous.
"Mental illness is a very individual-based disorder -- very unique for each person. So for those who come forward and ask for help, a very unique support plan should be the solution, given the nature of mental illness.
Wow. I can't believe he said all that. He clearly plans on missing practices too. I mean yeah he'll be frustrated by the Rockets not giving him what he wants, but the Rockets are going to be frustrated with him missing games, training camp, and practices. He says he wants to be healthy but his new work environment is unhealthy for him. The ADA requires reasonable work accommodations but it's not reasonable to expect the accommodation to be to show up as late as you need as often as you need or not at all.
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Sounds to me like White has an employment lawyer (and perhaps special interest groups) working for him, setting the stage for a lawsuit if he doesn't get what he wants.
I can't help but wonder whether he made these requests known to Houston before they drafted him...and I really doubt they were things that had not been discussed within his inner circle well before the draft.
His agent did a heck of a snowjob.
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Sounds to me like White has an employment lawyer (and perhaps special interest groups) working for him, setting the stage for a lawsuit if he doesn't get what he wants.
I can't help but wonder whether he made these requests known to Houston before they drafted him...and I really doubt they were things that had not been discussed within his inner circle well before the draft.
His agent did a heck of a snowjob.
I wonder who lied to who or if it's just a miscommunication. If he was clear with them that he has severe issues that would need a lot of support and they were like "yeah yeah yeah" and drafted him anyway and didn't really have any plan at all then I hope he wins his case.
But if he acted like he would just need to take the bus every once in a while and now he's pulling this I hope he loses.
I mean it sounds to me like he's planning on missing shoot arounds and all sorts of stuff. Can you imagine him arriving in the 2nd quarter like "I'm here!" Then he doesn't get played and he says it's discrimination.
All I can say is I'm glad the Celts don't have to deal with this. They're in Turkey. Thank God the Rockets didn't start the season in China or Tokyo or something.
I am very very curious to hear what Royce says he'll do if he has a game in LA and has to be in Charlotte the next day. What's the plan Royce? Is that an unhealthy situation for you? So what's the plan?
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I wonder if the rumored "promise" to Royce White was just a Danny Ainge smoke screen. Maybe he was hoping to get someone else to take a flyer on him before we picked. Because Boston was the team leading up to the draft with arguably the most interest in him. If so, another great move by Ainge.
I certainly was fooled. I didn't see White missing any of training camp. I thought this was all a none issue and greatly exagerated by the media for a good story. Guess i was pretty wrong there.
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I wonder if the rumored "promise" to Royce White was just a Danny Ainge smoke screen. Maybe he was hoping to get someone else to take a flyer on him before we picked. Because Boston was the team leading up to the draft with arguably the most interest in him. If so, another great move by Ainge.
I certainly was fooled. I didn't see White missing any of training camp. I thought this was all a none issue and greatly exagerated by the media for a good story. Guess i was pretty wrong there.
I am still convinced there was no promise, and it was a tactic by the agent. And a genius one.
What I think happened is White's anxiety was acting up from traveling to all the workouts...so, he shut it down, and the agent leaked that he had a promise, so teams would both think they need to pick him higher, and not worry so much that it was his anxiety. He could have even taken it far enough to get someone like Danny in on it as a favor, to help teams think that it was the C's.
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I wonder if the rumored "promise" to Royce White was just a Danny Ainge smoke screen. Maybe he was hoping to get someone else to take a flyer on him before we picked. Because Boston was the team leading up to the draft with arguably the most interest in him. If so, another great move by Ainge.
I certainly was fooled. I didn't see White missing any of training camp. I thought this was all a none issue and greatly exagerated by the media for a good story. Guess i was pretty wrong there.
I am still convinced there was no promise, and it was a tactic by the agent. And a genius one.
What I think happened is White's anxiety was acting up from traveling to all the workouts...so, he shut it down, and the agent leaked that he had a promise, so teams would both think they need to pick him higher, and not worry so much that it was his anxiety. He could have even taken it far enough to get someone like Danny in on it as a favor, to help teams think that it was the C's.
Sounds plausable to me Chris. I was on the rockets site.. Definatley a mix of emotions over there about it. I feel for the kid and the fans, but to me it looks like Morey took a huge swing and missed.
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It'll be interesting to see what "reasonable accommodations" can be interpreted as. Is it reasonable to only play 50 games (home games plus bus trips to Dallas, San Antonio, OKC, and New Orleans?) Plenty of NBA players only play 50 games a year due to injuries, and don't travel with the team while injured. Is having an anxiety disorder that flares up on airplane trips that different from having a chronic back issue that flares up on airplane trips? Both can be treated with medicine and therapy, but some days can be worse than others.
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I wonder if the rumored "promise" to Royce White was just a Danny Ainge smoke screen. Maybe he was hoping to get someone else to take a flyer on him before we picked. Because Boston was the team leading up to the draft with arguably the most interest in him. If so, another great move by Ainge.
I certainly was fooled. I didn't see White missing any of training camp. I thought this was all a none issue and greatly exagerated by the media for a good story. Guess i was pretty wrong there.
I am still convinced there was no promise, and it was a tactic by the agent. And a genius one.
What I think happened is White's anxiety was acting up from traveling to all the workouts...so, he shut it down, and the agent leaked that he had a promise, so teams would both think they need to pick him higher, and not worry so much that it was his anxiety. He could have even taken it far enough to get someone like Danny in on it as a favor, to help teams think that it was the C's.
Sounds plausable to me Chris. I was on the rockets site.. Definatley a mix of emotions over there about it. I feel for the kid and the fans, but to me it looks like Morey took a huge swing and missed.
If they could close the book now and that'd be the end of it, yeah. But I think that writing off White now..its just such a terrible awful idea.
Change aggravates any psychological condition. When he went to Minnesota, do you think he was less affected? Someone (Iowa) finally took the right approach with him, and look how it paid off. It is a journey by steps with him, the Rockets need to pretty much hold his hand, and treat him with kid gloves, get him in a routine, feeling safe, feeling secure. He's gonna have setbacks, Houston needs to ensure that he can get through them.
But Royce White's talent and ceiling are far, far above anyone taken after him, excepting maybe PJ3, but even then, PJ3's injury concerns are pretty significant.
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It'll be interesting to see what "reasonable accommodations" can be interpreted as. Is it reasonable to only play 50 games (home games plus bus trips to Dallas, San Antonio, OKC, and New Orleans?) Plenty of NBA players only play 50 games a year due to injuries, and don't travel with the team while injured. Is having an anxiety disorder that flares up on airplane trips that different from having a chronic back issue that flares up on airplane trips? Both can be treated with medicine and therapy, but some days can be worse than others.
You could definitely say that is a fair comparison and in a lot of ways it is. You could also compare it to a guy who has gotten a lot of concussions and wants his new team to know that since he has a lot of head problems he'll need a lot of accommodations like skipping practice and team meetings to give his head time to rest.
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I wonder if the rumored "promise" to Royce White was just a Danny Ainge smoke screen. Maybe he was hoping to get someone else to take a flyer on him before we picked. Because Boston was the team leading up to the draft with arguably the most interest in him. If so, another great move by Ainge.
I certainly was fooled. I didn't see White missing any of training camp. I thought this was all a none issue and greatly exagerated by the media for a good story. Guess i was pretty wrong there.
I am still convinced there was no promise, and it was a tactic by the agent. And a genius one.
What I think happened is White's anxiety was acting up from traveling to all the workouts...so, he shut it down, and the agent leaked that he had a promise, so teams would both think they need to pick him higher, and not worry so much that it was his anxiety. He could have even taken it far enough to get someone like Danny in on it as a favor, to help teams think that it was the C's.
Sounds plausable to me Chris. I was on the rockets site.. Definatley a mix of emotions over there about it. I feel for the kid and the fans, but to me it looks like Morey took a huge swing and missed.
If they could close the book now and that'd be the end of it, yeah. But I think that writing off White now..its just such a terrible awful idea.
Change aggravates any psychological condition. When he went to Minnesota, do you think he was less affected? Someone (Iowa) finally took the right approach with him, and look how it paid off. It is a journey by steps with him, the Rockets need to pretty much hold his hand, and treat him with kid gloves, get him in a routine, feeling safe, feeling secure. He's gonna have setbacks, Houston needs to ensure that he can get through them.
But Royce White's talent and ceiling are far, far above anyone taken after him, excepting maybe PJ3, but even then, PJ3's injury concerns are pretty significant.
I agree. His talent and ceiling are above a few of the players taken before him as well.
A lot of people on this board are glad that the Celtics didn't get him. For the most part I share that sentiment, because I am very high on Sullinger, and think that Fab Melo was worth the risk given positional need.
But let's compare Sullinger and White: Sullinger has the potential to be a solid, if not spectacular, PF/C. Royce White has the potential to be a game-changing 3/4. Sullinger has a chronic injury issue, that you hope with treatment you can limit such that he doesn't miss much time. However, if/when his injury issue flares up, you will have little advance warning. White has a chronic mental illness that you hope you can limit with treatment. Howeever, if/when his illness flares up, you will be somewhat prepared, because it will occur on road games. White could reasonably be expected to be available for home games, as well as games at NY, Brooklyn, Philly, and perhaps Washington. If the schedule gods are nice, maybe there are a few games in a row at Cleveland/Detroit/Indy/Chicago/Milwaukee that he can get to. You can hope that you find the right treatment, and that he can travel with the team a few times. If you hit the jackpot, you find a treatment that allows him to make most or all of the trips. With Sullinger, you similarly hope you can find the right treatment such that he doesn't miss any extended time, and if you're successful, you've again hit the jackpot. Now maybe you feel more comfortable with your ability to manage a back issue than an anxiety issue, and I would find that reasonable, if not debatable. But I think this "I'm glad the Celtics didn't get him" might be misplaced. I'd rather have a game-changer for half the year than a guy who can't crack the rotation for all of the year. (Note: I already said I prefer Sully/Melo to White. But if White were available and one of those two were off the board, I don't think the C's would have been crazy to take White.)
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Earlier Wednesday, White released a statement that detailed his refusal to join the team until a plan to address his "long-term health" was in place.
"There are often negative consequences to mental illness when not given the proper support," said White, according to a statement released through his publicist, California-based China Myers. "Often, those consequences are more severe for the surrounding people than the sufferer him/herself. I am not willing to allow those consequences to befall on myself or others close to me.
"It causes me anxiety to know that serious consequences could happen if I do not express what I deal with, or if I am not truthful enough to ask for what I need to be healthy. For me, hiding is no longer a healthy option in treating my anxiety or OCD, so I have asked for some help from the organization to ensure long-term health for myself.
"It has been determined that without a specific plan in place, the current workplace is not healthy for me. I feel that it is essential to formulate the right plan for a better chance of execution, despite other timelines or agendas. The most important agenda to me is a plan that is healthy. Therefore, a plan has been requested that will support a healthy work environment. In addition to this, it has been requested that the standard requirements for players in regards to this plan be voided because it is not a standard situation.
"It is regrettable that I cannot be currently present, but long-term health obviously should be the most important thing. I will continue to champion the cause for mental illness being met with understanding; if not, the ramifications are dangerous.
"Mental illness is a very individual-based disorder -- very unique for each person. So for those who come forward and ask for help, a very unique support plan should be the solution, given the nature of mental illness.
Wow. I can't believe he said all that. He clearly plans on missing practices too. I mean yeah he'll be frustrated by the Rockets not giving him what he wants, but the Rockets are going to be frustrated with him missing games, training camp, and practices. He says he wants to be healthy but his new work environment is unhealthy for him. The ADA requires reasonable work accommodations but it's not reasonable to expect the accommodation to be to show up as late as you need as often as you need or not at all.
Ha. Sounds like somebody is planning a lawsuit.
What a joke. I'm glad he's not wearing green.
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It'll be interesting to see what "reasonable accommodations" can be interpreted as. Is it reasonable to only play 50 games (home games plus bus trips to Dallas, San Antonio, OKC, and New Orleans?) Plenty of NBA players only play 50 games a year due to injuries, and don't travel with the team while injured. Is having an anxiety disorder that flares up on airplane trips that different from having a chronic back issue that flares up on airplane trips? Both can be treated with medicine and therapy, but some days can be worse than others.
You could definitely say that is a fair comparison and in a lot of ways it is. You could also compare it to a guy who has gotten a lot of concussions and wants his new team to know that since he has a lot of head problems he'll need a lot of accommodations like skipping practice and team meetings to give his head time to rest.
One note on reasonable accomodations: the employee still must be able to perform the core functions of their job. I would think that it would be entirely *unreasonable* to allow White to miss games or practices, or to take alternative means of transportation that cause him to miss games.
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I feel bad for the dude. If something as simple as going on a plane affects him that much, so much where it can ruin a career at something he's amazing at, and p--- off his employers, and make them probably regret drafting him, then I wouldn't want to be that dude.
He's probably trying his best. He's not a joke, and he's not a Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. or anything like that. He has a real disorder, and at this point, it's possibly ruining his life.
The scrutiny and speculation, and how it seems so much is on his shoulders cannot help his anxiety...
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I feel bad for the dude. If something as simple as going on a plane affects him that much, so much where it can ruin a career at something he's amazing at, and p--- off his employers, and make them probably regret drafting him, then I wouldn't want to be that dude.
He's probably trying his best. He's not a joke, and he's not a **** or anything like that. He has a real disorder, and at this point, it's possibly ruining his life.
The scrutiny and speculation, and how it seems so much is on his shoulders cannot help his anxiety...
The part that I find a joke is that he thinks the entire organization should bend over backward for him, while he can't even be bothered to attend camp.
If he can't make professional commitments, he shouldn't be a professional. I'm sympathetic to his mental condition. I'm also sympathetic to people who have a fear of heights. That doesn't mean I'd support those people being a steel worker on a skyscraper construction job.
If the kid had gone into the situation with the Rockets trying his best, while asking for some accommodations, I'd feel better about him. To avoid camp, and to start making demands while using language drawn up by his agent / lawyer tells me that the kid isn't ready for the NBA.
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It'll be interesting to see what "reasonable accommodations" can be interpreted as. Is it reasonable to only play 50 games (home games plus bus trips to Dallas, San Antonio, OKC, and New Orleans?) Plenty of NBA players only play 50 games a year due to injuries, and don't travel with the team while injured. Is having an anxiety disorder that flares up on airplane trips that different from having a chronic back issue that flares up on airplane trips? Both can be treated with medicine and therapy, but some days can be worse than others.
You could definitely say that is a fair comparison and in a lot of ways it is. You could also compare it to a guy who has gotten a lot of concussions and wants his new team to know that since he has a lot of head problems he'll need a lot of accommodations like skipping practice and team meetings to give his head time to rest.
One note on reasonable accomodations: the employee still must be able to perform the core functions of their job. I would think that it would be entirely *unreasonable* to allow White to miss games or practices, or to take alternative means of transportation that cause him to miss games.
I just don't think it will be that easy, Roy. The Rockets do not force injured players to play. They do not force injured players to practice, or to travel with the team. If similar accommodations are being given to other players for different maladies, would allowing White to do the same be unreasonable? I'm sure his lawyer has a list of players who signed contracts while having either temporary or chronic injuries. Panic disorder and OCD are both covered under the ADA, so the Rockets can't simply ignore this, especially since they've signed a contract.
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I feel bad for the dude. If something as simple as going on a plane affects him that much, so much where it can ruin a career at something he's amazing at, and p--- off his employers, and make them probably regret drafting him, then I wouldn't want to be that dude.
He's probably trying his best. He's not a joke, and he's not a **** or anything like that. He has a real disorder, and at this point, it's possibly ruining his life.
The scrutiny and speculation, and how it seems so much is on his shoulders cannot help his anxiety...
The part that I find a joke is that he thinks the entire organization should bend over backward for him, while he can't even be bothered to attend camp.
If he can't make professional commitments, he shouldn't be a professional. I'm sympathetic to his mental condition. I'm also sympathetic to people who have a fear of heights. That doesn't mean I'd support those people being a steel worker on a skyscraper construction job.
If the kid had gone into the situation with the Rockets trying his best, while asking for some accommodations, I'd feel better about him. To avoid camp, and to start making demands while using language drawn up by his agent / lawyer tells me that the kid isn't ready for the NBA.
Yeah, I agree. The guy (kid) just doesn't know how to conduct himself, being 21 and jumping into a world like the NBA. I'm routing for him to get his act together, along with his anxiety.
He does need help, and you're right. He's clearly going about this the wrong way. but his perception is his own, and nobody else probably understands it, which is why I feel for him.
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White should have had his demands in writing at the predraft interviews. While I sympathize with his condition, its a horrible time to drop this bomb on the team that drafted him. The team made a huge investment in White, and it almost now seems like White tricked them into drafting him.
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whenever I see the title for this forum topic I only see the "MIA" and I feel my blood pressure rise...
To the topic itself, I feel bad for the guy, and hope he gets things turned around.
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With all due respect for Royce White's anxiety disorder...
The irony of someone with a severe fear of flying getting drafted by a team called the "Rockets" is ridiculous!
Not trying to make light of it. Just had to share that observation.
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But Royce White's talent and ceiling are far, far above anyone taken after him, excepting maybe PJ3, but even then, PJ3's injury concerns are pretty significant.
My problem, and the reason I never liked the pick to begin with is that I really don't agree with this. I think, even if he had no red flags, he was a mid first round talent anyways. He does a lot of things, but doesn't do anything great, and he is a tweener.
I think people talked themselves into his talent, based on a couple games in the tournament (or was it just one game?), and the fact that he has flown under the radar because of his illness, and everyone loves a story of a sleeper pick.
Particularly in a draft as deep as this one, I think it was a HUGE reach to take him where they took him, and guarantee him that kind of money.
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White should have had his demands in writing at the predraft interviews. While I sympathize with his condition, its a horrible time to drop this bomb on the team that drafted him. The team made a huge investment in White, and it almost now seems like White tricked them into drafting him.
No he shouldn't have. The way the laws are written in this country, it's near impossible to get the ADA enforced if you aren't hired first. If the laws were different, maybe, or if society had a different view of anxiety disorders, maybe. But the way he handled it was the most appropriate thing to do for his well-being given the way the system is set up, and I see no reason why he shouldn't have been looking out for himself first. The Rockets knew full well that he had a problem, and if their doctors told them they could fix it and were wrong, that's on them. And if their lawyers told them that reasonable accommodations don't apply, and they do, that's on them also.
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I feel bad for the dude. If something as simple as going on a plane affects him that much, so much where it can ruin a career at something he's amazing at, and p--- off his employers, and make them probably regret drafting him, then I wouldn't want to be that dude.
He's probably trying his best. He's not a joke, and he's not a **** or anything like that. He has a real disorder, and at this point, it's possibly ruining his life.
The scrutiny and speculation, and how it seems so much is on his shoulders cannot help his anxiety...
The part that I find a joke is that he thinks the entire organization should bend over backward for him, while he can't even be bothered to attend camp.
If he can't make professional commitments, he shouldn't be a professional. I'm sympathetic to his mental condition. I'm also sympathetic to people who have a fear of heights. That doesn't mean I'd support those people being a steel worker on a skyscraper construction job.
If the kid had gone into the situation with the Rockets trying his best, while asking for some accommodations, I'd feel better about him. To avoid camp, and to start making demands while using language drawn up by his agent / lawyer tells me that the kid isn't ready for the NBA.
Roy, you of all people should know this is a lawyer talking. The kid has a real issue, and he has always had this issue, and all he (and his agent/lawyer) are doing is trying to maximize his chances of actually getting paid, by laying down their case early.
Honestly, I bet White had very little to do with it, my guess is he is basically under orders from his agent and lawyer that he should not report until they agree to make the accomodations they are required to make for him.
If he actually waited until an issue occured before doing this, he would be in a more difficult position, because it is his burden to tell Houston that they need to make the accomodations, and if he doesn't request it, then he could be fined if say, he missed a team flight because of his anxiety disorder.
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
****. Yeah I'm pretty sure that's unheard of, and mildly funny in a very dark way. No way it's happening, but in his eyes, it's worth a shot, eh?
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I feel bad for the dude. If something as simple as going on a plane affects him that much, so much where it can ruin a career at something he's amazing at, and p--- off his employers, and make them probably regret drafting him, then I wouldn't want to be that dude.
He's probably trying his best. He's not a joke, and he's not a **** or anything like that. He has a real disorder, and at this point, it's possibly ruining his life.
The scrutiny and speculation, and how it seems so much is on his shoulders cannot help his anxiety...
The part that I find a joke is that he thinks the entire organization should bend over backward for him, while he can't even be bothered to attend camp.
If he can't make professional commitments, he shouldn't be a professional. I'm sympathetic to his mental condition. I'm also sympathetic to people who have a fear of heights. That doesn't mean I'd support those people being a steel worker on a skyscraper construction job.
If the kid had gone into the situation with the Rockets trying his best, while asking for some accommodations, I'd feel better about him. To avoid camp, and to start making demands while using language drawn up by his agent / lawyer tells me that the kid isn't ready for the NBA.
Roy, you of all people should know this is a lawyer talking. The kid has a real issue, and he has always had this issue, and all he (and his agent/lawyer) are doing is trying to maximize his chances of actually getting paid, by laying down their case early.
Honestly, I bet White had very little to do with it, my guess is he is basically under orders from his agent and lawyer that he should not report until they agree to make the accomodations they are required to make for him.
If he actually waited until an issue occured before doing this, he would be in a more difficult position, because it is his burden to tell Houston that they need to make the accomodations, and if he doesn't request it, then he could be fined if say, he missed a team flight because of his anxiety disorder.
Address it early the day after camp starts?
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
Let's see if it happens. To me, that is the type of thing he would offer, that his lawyer would never actually allow him to do...nor would the team, who really are legally obliged to provide the bus I believe.
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I feel bad for the dude. If something as simple as going on a plane affects him that much, so much where it can ruin a career at something he's amazing at, and p--- off his employers, and make them probably regret drafting him, then I wouldn't want to be that dude.
He's probably trying his best. He's not a joke, and he's not a **** or anything like that. He has a real disorder, and at this point, it's possibly ruining his life.
The scrutiny and speculation, and how it seems so much is on his shoulders cannot help his anxiety...
The part that I find a joke is that he thinks the entire organization should bend over backward for him, while he can't even be bothered to attend camp.
If he can't make professional commitments, he shouldn't be a professional. I'm sympathetic to his mental condition. I'm also sympathetic to people who have a fear of heights. That doesn't mean I'd support those people being a steel worker on a skyscraper construction job.
If the kid had gone into the situation with the Rockets trying his best, while asking for some accommodations, I'd feel better about him. To avoid camp, and to start making demands while using language drawn up by his agent / lawyer tells me that the kid isn't ready for the NBA.
Roy, you of all people should know this is a lawyer talking. The kid has a real issue, and he has always had this issue, and all he (and his agent/lawyer) are doing is trying to maximize his chances of actually getting paid, by laying down their case early.
Honestly, I bet White had very little to do with it, my guess is he is basically under orders from his agent and lawyer that he should not report until they agree to make the accomodations they are required to make for him.
If he actually waited until an issue occured before doing this, he would be in a more difficult position, because it is his burden to tell Houston that they need to make the accomodations, and if he doesn't request it, then he could be fined if say, he missed a team flight because of his anxiety disorder.
Address it early the day after camp starts?
It sounds like it is something that they have been discussing. It just became public the day after camp started. It became public now, because White needed to explain his absence.
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
The problem is that there are only like 6 games on Houston's road schedule that are really within "driving distance".
If he wants to travel on his own, and won't miss practices, games, or shootarounds, then I don't see a problem with it. However, that still leaves 35 or so games to deal with.
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I wonder if the rumored "promise" to Royce White was just a Danny Ainge smoke screen. Maybe he was hoping to get someone else to take a flyer on him before we picked. Because Boston was the team leading up to the draft with arguably the most interest in him. If so, another great move by Ainge.
I certainly was fooled. I didn't see White missing any of training camp. I thought this was all a none issue and greatly exagerated by the media for a good story. Guess i was pretty wrong there.
I am still convinced there was no promise, and it was a tactic by the agent. And a genius one.
What I think happened is White's anxiety was acting up from traveling to all the workouts...so, he shut it down, and the agent leaked that he had a promise, so teams would both think they need to pick him higher, and not worry so much that it was his anxiety. He could have even taken it far enough to get someone like Danny in on it as a favor, to help teams think that it was the C's.
Sounds plausable to me Chris. I was on the rockets site.. Definatley a mix of emotions over there about it. I feel for the kid and the fans, but to me it looks like Morey took a huge swing and missed.
If they could close the book now and that'd be the end of it, yeah. But I think that writing off White now..its just such a terrible awful idea.
Change aggravates any psychological condition. When he went to Minnesota, do you think he was less affected? Someone (Iowa) finally took the right approach with him, and look how it paid off. It is a journey by steps with him, the Rockets need to pretty much hold his hand, and treat him with kid gloves, get him in a routine, feeling safe, feeling secure. He's gonna have setbacks, Houston needs to ensure that he can get through them.
But Royce White's talent and ceiling are far, far above anyone taken after him, excepting maybe PJ3, but even then, PJ3's injury concerns are pretty significant.
I agree. His talent and ceiling are above a few of the players taken before him as well.
A lot of people on this board are glad that the Celtics didn't get him. For the most part I share that sentiment, because I am very high on Sullinger, and think that Fab Melo was worth the risk given positional need.
But let's compare Sullinger and White: Sullinger has the potential to be a solid, if not spectacular, PF/C. Royce White has the potential to be a game-changing 3/4. Sullinger has a chronic injury issue, that you hope with treatment you can limit such that he doesn't miss much time. However, if/when his injury issue flares up, you will have little advance warning. White has a chronic mental illness that you hope you can limit with treatment. Howeever, if/when his illness flares up, you will be somewhat prepared, because it will occur on road games. White could reasonably be expected to be available for home games, as well as games at NY, Brooklyn, Philly, and perhaps Washington. If the schedule gods are nice, maybe there are a few games in a row at Cleveland/Detroit/Indy/Chicago/Milwaukee that he can get to. You can hope that you find the right treatment, and that he can travel with the team a few times. If you hit the jackpot, you find a treatment that allows him to make most or all of the trips. With Sullinger, you similarly hope you can find the right treatment such that he doesn't miss any extended time, and if you're successful, you've again hit the jackpot. Now maybe you feel more comfortable with your ability to manage a back issue than an anxiety issue, and I would find that reasonable, if not debatable. But I think this "I'm glad the Celtics didn't get him" might be misplaced. I'd rather have a game-changer for half the year than a guy who can't crack the rotation for all of the year. (Note: I already said I prefer Sully/Melo to White. But if White were available and one of those two were off the board, I don't think the C's would have been crazy to take White.)
But you don't see Sully saying since his long term health is most important he needs a bus to drive him to all games so he can sit in a hot tub and ice tub the whole way cause that's what's best for his long term health
Plus White is still subject to all the physical injuries that are out there too.
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
I assumed that meant if his bus drove over someone and killed them or he himself was hurt he gets sued instead of the Rockets and he can't sue them for money saying he was hurt on the job
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I feel bad for the dude. If something as simple as going on a plane affects him that much, so much where it can ruin a career at something he's amazing at, and p--- off his employers, and make them probably regret drafting him, then I wouldn't want to be that dude.
He's probably trying his best. He's not a joke, and he's not a **** or anything like that. He has a real disorder, and at this point, it's possibly ruining his life.
The scrutiny and speculation, and how it seems so much is on his shoulders cannot help his anxiety...
The part that I find a joke is that he thinks the entire organization should bend over backward for him, while he can't even be bothered to attend camp.
If he can't make professional commitments, he shouldn't be a professional. I'm sympathetic to his mental condition. I'm also sympathetic to people who have a fear of heights. That doesn't mean I'd support those people being a steel worker on a skyscraper construction job.
If the kid had gone into the situation with the Rockets trying his best, while asking for some accommodations, I'd feel better about him. To avoid camp, and to start making demands while using language drawn up by his agent / lawyer tells me that the kid isn't ready for the NBA.
Roy, you of all people should know this is a lawyer talking. The kid has a real issue, and he has always had this issue, and all he (and his agent/lawyer) are doing is trying to maximize his chances of actually getting paid, by laying down their case early.
Honestly, I bet White had very little to do with it, my guess is he is basically under orders from his agent and lawyer that he should not report until they agree to make the accomodations they are required to make for him.
If he actually waited until an issue occured before doing this, he would be in a more difficult position, because it is his burden to tell Houston that they need to make the accomodations, and if he doesn't request it, then he could be fined if say, he missed a team flight because of his anxiety disorder.
Address it early the day after camp starts?
It sounds like it is something that they have been discussing. It just became public the day after camp started. It became public now, because White needed to explain his absence.
They've had several months to work this out, though.
And yeah, I'm sure White is acting under the directive of his handlers. That doesn't absolve him of responsibility, though. Sometimes you need to stand up to your employees and tell them that you're going to do the right thing.
The right thing would have been to resolve this before camp. At this point, it would be to report to camp.
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Another thing that matters to me is how a guy handles being hurt. If he can't go with the team will he come into the facility and watch video and work out with coaches and go to therapy and eat right, or will he stay home and sleep? Because right now his whole team is together and he's at home.
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
The problem is that there are only like 6 games on Houston's road schedule that are really within "driving distance".
If he wants to travel on his own, and won't miss practices, games, or shootarounds, then I don't see a problem with it. However, that still leaves 35 or so games to deal with.
I get the impression he will still fly when he needs to. But, he just wants to be able to take a bus, whenever it's possible, to minimize the amount he has to fly.
And I also imagine that there will be times when he might be using the Bus on the extended road trips. For example for a East coast trip, he will fly with the team to Boston, then take the bus instead of flying to games in NY, Philly, Washington, etc. So instead of having to have say, 6 flights, he just needs to take 2.
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I feel bad for the dude. If something as simple as going on a plane affects him that much, so much where it can ruin a career at something he's amazing at, and p--- off his employers, and make them probably regret drafting him, then I wouldn't want to be that dude.
He's probably trying his best. He's not a joke, and he's not a **** or anything like that. He has a real disorder, and at this point, it's possibly ruining his life.
The scrutiny and speculation, and how it seems so much is on his shoulders cannot help his anxiety...
The part that I find a joke is that he thinks the entire organization should bend over backward for him, while he can't even be bothered to attend camp.
If he can't make professional commitments, he shouldn't be a professional. I'm sympathetic to his mental condition. I'm also sympathetic to people who have a fear of heights. That doesn't mean I'd support those people being a steel worker on a skyscraper construction job.
If the kid had gone into the situation with the Rockets trying his best, while asking for some accommodations, I'd feel better about him. To avoid camp, and to start making demands while using language drawn up by his agent / lawyer tells me that the kid isn't ready for the NBA.
Roy, you of all people should know this is a lawyer talking. The kid has a real issue, and he has always had this issue, and all he (and his agent/lawyer) are doing is trying to maximize his chances of actually getting paid, by laying down their case early.
Honestly, I bet White had very little to do with it, my guess is he is basically under orders from his agent and lawyer that he should not report until they agree to make the accomodations they are required to make for him.
If he actually waited until an issue occured before doing this, he would be in a more difficult position, because it is his burden to tell Houston that they need to make the accomodations, and if he doesn't request it, then he could be fined if say, he missed a team flight because of his anxiety disorder.
Address it early the day after camp starts?
It sounds like it is something that they have been discussing. It just became public the day after camp started. It became public now, because White needed to explain his absence.
They've had several months to work this out, though.
And yeah, I'm sure White is acting under the directive of his handlers. That doesn't absolve him of responsibility, though. Sometimes you need to stand up to your employees and tell them that you're going to do the right thing.
The right thing would have been to resolve this before camp. At this point, it would be to report to camp.
Something definitely went wrong. The Rockets almost certainly talked to his camp and to ISU before they drafted him. They must have asked ISU doctors "What worked best? What will we have to do? What won't work? How easy/hard was it?" and came away with the idea that this was doable. Now they get told "Oh no. It's not doable. It's so not doable I'm not coming to camp for the time being"
I think that's what people don't get. How would that work for any of us? You get an interview in college. Then you sign an offer. Then you call up on the first day of work and say you can't come till they come up with a good commuting plan for you.
I find this the most interesting sports story in a long time.
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
The problem is that there are only like 6 games on Houston's road schedule that are really within "driving distance".
If he wants to travel on his own, and won't miss practices, games, or shootarounds, then I don't see a problem with it. However, that still leaves 35 or so games to deal with.
I get the impression he will still fly when he needs to. But, he just wants to be able to take a bus, whenever it's possible, to minimize the amount he has to fly.
And I also imagine that there will be times when he might be using the Bus on the extended road trips. For example for a East coast trip, he will fly with the team to Boston, then take the bus instead of flying to games in NY, Philly, Washington, etc. So instead of having to have say, 6 flights, he just needs to take 2.
I don't know. I think if it was as simple as that this would be a done deal. He clearly wants things in writing.
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
The problem is that there are only like 6 games on Houston's road schedule that are really within "driving distance".
If he wants to travel on his own, and won't miss practices, games, or shootarounds, then I don't see a problem with it. However, that still leaves 35 or so games to deal with.
Let's look at that stretch that eja cited:
Now take his new NBA schedule. Take a look at Jan 8 to Jan 21
Tue, Jan 8
vs
Los Angeles
Wed, Jan 9
@ New Orleans
Fri, Jan 11
@ Boston
Sat, Jan 12
@ Philadelphia
Tue, Jan 15
vs
Los Angeles
Wed, Jan 16
@ Dallas
Fri, Jan 18
@ Indiana
Sat, Jan 19
@ Minnesota
Mon, Jan 21
@ Charlotte
He can skip the game in NO in order to make it to Boston in time for that game. Drive to Philly. Drive back to Houston in time for the next game, and can then continue on to Dallas. By rights, he should also make at least 2 of the following 3 games.
At most, he's missing 2 of those 9 games. That's not unreasonable.
I think what needs to be sussed out is what happens when White's issues prevent him from playing. Is he liable to give back 1/82 of his salary to the team?
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
The problem is that there are only like 6 games on Houston's road schedule that are really within "driving distance".
If he wants to travel on his own, and won't miss practices, games, or shootarounds, then I don't see a problem with it. However, that still leaves 35 or so games to deal with.
Let's look at that stretch that eja cited:
Now take his new NBA schedule. Take a look at Jan 8 to Jan 21
Tue, Jan 8
vs
Los Angeles
Wed, Jan 9
@ New Orleans
Fri, Jan 11
@ Boston
Sat, Jan 12
@ Philadelphia
Tue, Jan 15
vs
Los Angeles
Wed, Jan 16
@ Dallas
Fri, Jan 18
@ Indiana
Sat, Jan 19
@ Minnesota
Mon, Jan 21
@ Charlotte
He can skip the game in NO in order to make it to Boston in time for that game. Drive to Philly. Drive back to Houston in time for the next game, and can then continue on to Dallas. By rights, he should also make at least 2 of the following 3 games.
At most, he's missing 2 of those 9 games. That's not unreasonable.
I think what needs to be sussed out is what happens when White's issues prevent him from playing. Is he liable to give back 1/82 of his salary to the team?
I don't see missing games as a reasonable option. Sorry, but I don't. A lot of these guys have all sorts of issues. Tough divorces. Arrests. People stealing their money. We just saw Torey Smith play within 12 hours of learning his brother died. Brett Farve played the night after his father died. Look what Kobe dealt with. And it's not just pro athletes. It's cops, teachers, lawyers, presidents, CEOs, social workers, etc.
If this guy misses 2 out of 9 games (25% of games?) then I don't see him as a viable pro athlete. I just don't.
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I wonder if the rumored "promise" to Royce White was just a Danny Ainge smoke screen. Maybe he was hoping to get someone else to take a flyer on him before we picked. Because Boston was the team leading up to the draft with arguably the most interest in him. If so, another great move by Ainge.
I certainly was fooled. I didn't see White missing any of training camp. I thought this was all a none issue and greatly exagerated by the media for a good story. Guess i was pretty wrong there.
I am still convinced there was no promise, and it was a tactic by the agent. And a genius one.
What I think happened is White's anxiety was acting up from traveling to all the workouts...so, he shut it down, and the agent leaked that he had a promise, so teams would both think they need to pick him higher, and not worry so much that it was his anxiety. He could have even taken it far enough to get someone like Danny in on it as a favor, to help teams think that it was the C's.
Sounds plausable to me Chris. I was on the rockets site.. Definatley a mix of emotions over there about it. I feel for the kid and the fans, but to me it looks like Morey took a huge swing and missed.
If they could close the book now and that'd be the end of it, yeah. But I think that writing off White now..its just such a terrible awful idea.
Change aggravates any psychological condition. When he went to Minnesota, do you think he was less affected? Someone (Iowa) finally took the right approach with him, and look how it paid off. It is a journey by steps with him, the Rockets need to pretty much hold his hand, and treat him with kid gloves, get him in a routine, feeling safe, feeling secure. He's gonna have setbacks, Houston needs to ensure that he can get through them.
But Royce White's talent and ceiling are far, far above anyone taken after him, excepting maybe PJ3, but even then, PJ3's injury concerns are pretty significant.
I agree. His talent and ceiling are above a few of the players taken before him as well.
A lot of people on this board are glad that the Celtics didn't get him. For the most part I share that sentiment, because I am very high on Sullinger, and think that Fab Melo was worth the risk given positional need.
But let's compare Sullinger and White: Sullinger has the potential to be a solid, if not spectacular, PF/C. Royce White has the potential to be a game-changing 3/4. Sullinger has a chronic injury issue, that you hope with treatment you can limit such that he doesn't miss much time. However, if/when his injury issue flares up, you will have little advance warning. White has a chronic mental illness that you hope you can limit with treatment. Howeever, if/when his illness flares up, you will be somewhat prepared, because it will occur on road games. White could reasonably be expected to be available for home games, as well as games at NY, Brooklyn, Philly, and perhaps Washington. If the schedule gods are nice, maybe there are a few games in a row at Cleveland/Detroit/Indy/Chicago/Milwaukee that he can get to. You can hope that you find the right treatment, and that he can travel with the team a few times. If you hit the jackpot, you find a treatment that allows him to make most or all of the trips. With Sullinger, you similarly hope you can find the right treatment such that he doesn't miss any extended time, and if you're successful, you've again hit the jackpot. Now maybe you feel more comfortable with your ability to manage a back issue than an anxiety issue, and I would find that reasonable, if not debatable. But I think this "I'm glad the Celtics didn't get him" might be misplaced. I'd rather have a game-changer for half the year than a guy who can't crack the rotation for all of the year. (Note: I already said I prefer Sully/Melo to White. But if White were available and one of those two were off the board, I don't think the C's would have been crazy to take White.)
But you don't see Sully saying since his long term health is most important he needs a bus to drive him to all games so he can sit in a hot tub and ice tub the whole way cause that's what's best for his long term health
Plus White is still subject to all the physical injuries that are out there too.
With regards to physical injuries, Sully is still subject to all the other non-back physical injuries as well, such as knees, ankles, shoulders, concussions, etc, so I think that's a wash. If Sully tears an ACL, some people will probably try to link it to his back, but more likely it will be a freak injury that can occur when large, strong men run, jump, and crash into each other a lot.
Sullinger is certainly going to try to play every game. I think that White will too. Panic disorder sucks, and I'm sure White would rather not have it. (And also, try telling someone who's heart starts pounding, is hyperventilating, and is dizzy from watching the room spin around him that it's just in his head. But I digress.) But Sullinger doesn't have to make an issue out of his back (other than, like White pre-draft, saying it's a non-issue so that he can get drafted as high as possible) because the CBA gives him a process to make certain that he's being properly treated. The CBA doesn't address White, but the ADA does, and so he's using it.
But really, the point I was making in regards to comparing White and Sullinger was how sensible it was, or wasn't, to draft either of them in the first place. And if you believe in the talent of the player, there's going to be a certain point where you say "I'd rather have that guy for 50 games and hope he's able to play more than this other guy for 80 games." Neither pick may pan out, or both may, but at some point in the draft both players were going to be risks worth taking.
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I wonder if the rumored "promise" to Royce White was just a Danny Ainge smoke screen. Maybe he was hoping to get someone else to take a flyer on him before we picked. Because Boston was the team leading up to the draft with arguably the most interest in him. If so, another great move by Ainge.
I certainly was fooled. I didn't see White missing any of training camp. I thought this was all a none issue and greatly exagerated by the media for a good story. Guess i was pretty wrong there.
I am still convinced there was no promise, and it was a tactic by the agent. And a genius one.
What I think happened is White's anxiety was acting up from traveling to all the workouts...so, he shut it down, and the agent leaked that he had a promise, so teams would both think they need to pick him higher, and not worry so much that it was his anxiety. He could have even taken it far enough to get someone like Danny in on it as a favor, to help teams think that it was the C's.
Sounds plausable to me Chris. I was on the rockets site.. Definatley a mix of emotions over there about it. I feel for the kid and the fans, but to me it looks like Morey took a huge swing and missed.
If they could close the book now and that'd be the end of it, yeah. But I think that writing off White now..its just such a terrible awful idea.
Change aggravates any psychological condition. When he went to Minnesota, do you think he was less affected? Someone (Iowa) finally took the right approach with him, and look how it paid off. It is a journey by steps with him, the Rockets need to pretty much hold his hand, and treat him with kid gloves, get him in a routine, feeling safe, feeling secure. He's gonna have setbacks, Houston needs to ensure that he can get through them.
But Royce White's talent and ceiling are far, far above anyone taken after him, excepting maybe PJ3, but even then, PJ3's injury concerns are pretty significant.
I agree. His talent and ceiling are above a few of the players taken before him as well.
A lot of people on this board are glad that the Celtics didn't get him. For the most part I share that sentiment, because I am very high on Sullinger, and think that Fab Melo was worth the risk given positional need.
But let's compare Sullinger and White: Sullinger has the potential to be a solid, if not spectacular, PF/C. Royce White has the potential to be a game-changing 3/4. Sullinger has a chronic injury issue, that you hope with treatment you can limit such that he doesn't miss much time. However, if/when his injury issue flares up, you will have little advance warning. White has a chronic mental illness that you hope you can limit with treatment. Howeever, if/when his illness flares up, you will be somewhat prepared, because it will occur on road games. White could reasonably be expected to be available for home games, as well as games at NY, Brooklyn, Philly, and perhaps Washington. If the schedule gods are nice, maybe there are a few games in a row at Cleveland/Detroit/Indy/Chicago/Milwaukee that he can get to. You can hope that you find the right treatment, and that he can travel with the team a few times. If you hit the jackpot, you find a treatment that allows him to make most or all of the trips. With Sullinger, you similarly hope you can find the right treatment such that he doesn't miss any extended time, and if you're successful, you've again hit the jackpot. Now maybe you feel more comfortable with your ability to manage a back issue than an anxiety issue, and I would find that reasonable, if not debatable. But I think this "I'm glad the Celtics didn't get him" might be misplaced. I'd rather have a game-changer for half the year than a guy who can't crack the rotation for all of the year. (Note: I already said I prefer Sully/Melo to White. But if White were available and one of those two were off the board, I don't think the C's would have been crazy to take White.)
But you don't see Sully saying since his long term health is most important he needs a bus to drive him to all games so he can sit in a hot tub and ice tub the whole way cause that's what's best for his long term health
Plus White is still subject to all the physical injuries that are out there too.
With regards to physical injuries, Sully is still subject to all the other non-back physical injuries as well, such as knees, ankles, shoulders, concussions, etc, so I think that's a wash. If Sully tears an ACL, some people will probably try to link it to his back, but more likely it will be a freak injury that can occur when large, strong men run, jump, and crash into each other a lot.
Sullinger is certainly going to try to play every game. I think that White will too. Panic disorder sucks, and I'm sure White would rather not have it. (And also, try telling someone who's heart starts pounding, is hyperventilating, and is dizzy from watching the room spin around him that it's just in his head. But I digress.) But Sullinger doesn't have to make an issue out of his back (other than, like White pre-draft, saying it's a non-issue so that he can get drafted as high as possible) because the CBA gives him a process to make certain that he's being properly treated. The CBA doesn't address White, but the ADA does, and so he's using it.
But really, the point I was making in regards to comparing White and Sullinger was how sensible it was, or wasn't, to draft either of them in the first place. And if you believe in the talent of the player, there's going to be a certain point where you say "I'd rather have that guy for 50 games and hope he's able to play more than this other guy for 80 games." Neither pick may pan out, or both may, but at some point in the draft both players were going to be risks worth taking.
I totally agree that at some point they were a risk worth taking...maybe with the top pick in the second round so there's no guaranteed contract.
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
The problem is that there are only like 6 games on Houston's road schedule that are really within "driving distance".
If he wants to travel on his own, and won't miss practices, games, or shootarounds, then I don't see a problem with it. However, that still leaves 35 or so games to deal with.
I get the impression he will still fly when he needs to. But, he just wants to be able to take a bus, whenever it's possible, to minimize the amount he has to fly.
And I also imagine that there will be times when he might be using the Bus on the extended road trips. For example for a East coast trip, he will fly with the team to Boston, then take the bus instead of flying to games in NY, Philly, Washington, etc. So instead of having to have say, 6 flights, he just needs to take 2.
I don't know. I think if it was as simple as that this would be a done deal. He clearly wants things in writing.
It HAS to be in writing. They need to have a formal, agreed upon plan, that lays out what Houston's expectations of White are, and what accomodations the Rockets will make to allow him a reasonable chance to meet those expectations, given his disability.
I think both sides are waiting to get this in writing. But I also imagine this is a bit of a process, because it needs to go through the lawyers.
I am really curious when this was officially brought up by White.
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I totally agree that at some point they were a risk worth taking...maybe with the top pick in the second round so there's no guaranteed contract.
I think that there is a fantastic set of reasons Rockets fans, players, coaches, staff, and management should still be excited about the kid.
But I imagine they'd be lying if they said they saw this coming, and I doubt they would've still selected him if they knew he'd be like this coming to training camp of all places. Not a game, not a practice, training camp.
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There seems to be a lot of speculation about White's demands or requests. That would be fine if we were just discussing this nuetrally, but to portray him negatively as a result of that speculation is kind of unfair.
I agree with the thought that he should be in camp right now, and the thought that the Rockets should not have to do anything unreasonable to accomodate him. Since there are a lot of missing pieces to the story I would stop there and say he still has incredible upside and potential. Hopefully he and the Rockets figure this out quickly.
He is the rookie I am cheering for the most after Sully, Fab, and Kjo. It should be interesting to see this play out.
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
The problem is that there are only like 6 games on Houston's road schedule that are really within "driving distance".
If he wants to travel on his own, and won't miss practices, games, or shootarounds, then I don't see a problem with it. However, that still leaves 35 or so games to deal with.
Let's look at that stretch that eja cited:
Now take his new NBA schedule. Take a look at Jan 8 to Jan 21
Tue, Jan 8
vs
Los Angeles
Wed, Jan 9
@ New Orleans
Fri, Jan 11
@ Boston
Sat, Jan 12
@ Philadelphia
Tue, Jan 15
vs
Los Angeles
Wed, Jan 16
@ Dallas
Fri, Jan 18
@ Indiana
Sat, Jan 19
@ Minnesota
Mon, Jan 21
@ Charlotte
He can skip the game in NO in order to make it to Boston in time for that game. Drive to Philly. Drive back to Houston in time for the next game, and can then continue on to Dallas. By rights, he should also make at least 2 of the following 3 games.
At most, he's missing 2 of those 9 games. That's not unreasonable.
I think what needs to be sussed out is what happens when White's issues prevent him from playing. Is he liable to give back 1/82 of his salary to the team?
I don't see missing games as a reasonable option. Sorry, but I don't. A lot of these guys have all sorts of issues. Tough divorces. Arrests. People stealing their money. We just saw Torey Smith play within 12 hours of learning his brother died. Brett Farve played the night after his father died. Look what Kobe dealt with. And it's not just pro athletes. It's cops, teachers, lawyers, presidents, CEOs, social workers, etc.
If this guy misses 2 out of 9 games (25% of games?) then I don't see him as a viable pro athlete. I just don't.
I think a court would find that as a reasonable option, however. Plenty of NBA players will only be able to play in 50-75% of games this year, or many years. Now, the Rockets may be pushing back on treatment requirements, because they want some assurance that White is giving a good-faith effort to control his anxiety such that he makes it to as many games as possible. But White's deal is guaranteed for only two years, and if he screws the pooch, he's going to be forgotten about until some ESPN documentary in 20 years, because he certainly doesn't have that many other career options. It's in his best interest to play almost every game, and show the Rockets that the reasonable accommodations they made were enough, because that will keep him employed for longer, and at higher salaries. And if the Rockets believe in White's talent and potential, it's in their best interest to have him succeed as well.
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I totally agree that at some point they were a risk worth taking...maybe with the top pick in the second round so there's no guaranteed contract.
I think that there is a fantastic set of reasons Rockets fans, players, coaches, staff, and management should still be excited about the kid.
But I imagine they'd be lying if they said they saw this coming, and I doubt they would've still selected him if they knew he'd be like this coming to training camp of all places. Not a game, not a practice, training camp.
As an above poster said, information is obviously incomplete. But to protect himself, he needs to get things in writing early. The Rockets may not have seen this coming, but that's either because their legal counsel gave them bad advice, or they ignored that advice.
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Didn't T-Mac only play home games in his rookie season? Doesn't it seem like that's what White ultimately wants?
Feel bad for the guy, but the comparison to a skycraper worker with a fear of heights is valid. Not everyone had the makeup to be a professional athlete; for 99.99% of the population, it's a physical thing but it sure seems to me that White's anxiety disorder is doing that to him.
But, if he can't play because he can't get to the games... nobody has the *right* to be an NBA player. If he can't play professional sports, he can't play professional sports. That's no discredit to him. I just hope that if he can't overcome this, he can find something to do with his life that will be emotionally and financially satisfying.
Or, maybe the Rockets need to hire Ricky Davis as a "special assistant," in charge of getting White sufficiently "relaxed" so he can fly.
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Or, maybe the Rockets need to hire Ricky Davis as a "special assistant," in charge of getting White sufficiently "relaxed" so he can fly.
Ha, ha. Ricky Davis, licensed travel preparation therapist.
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I will say though, if these issues are legitimate and not exagerated or just being pushed by his lawyers. Im sure Royce White is just as frustrated as the Rockets are.
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White's fear of flying, he said, magnifies his anxiety disorder. So he's asked the Rockets to let him use a bus for some of the team's extensive road trips. White said he's willing to purchase the bus and assume liability.
Seems people have glossed over this part.
The problem is that there are only like 6 games on Houston's road schedule that are really within "driving distance".
If he wants to travel on his own, and won't miss practices, games, or shootarounds, then I don't see a problem with it. However, that still leaves 35 or so games to deal with.
I get the impression he will still fly when he needs to. But, he just wants to be able to take a bus, whenever it's possible, to minimize the amount he has to fly.
And I also imagine that there will be times when he might be using the Bus on the extended road trips. For example for a East coast trip, he will fly with the team to Boston, then take the bus instead of flying to games in NY, Philly, Washington, etc. So instead of having to have say, 6 flights, he just needs to take 2.
If it makes him play better, whatever. Players and most employees have the right to choose how they are transported if it doesn't affect what they're actually being paid to do. As Roy H. said, so long as he gets to everything on time, it's not a problem. They probably don't think that's reasonable which is why it's taking longer to put it into contract.
Now if you ask my opinion, the time to straighten that out would be before his deal was even inked, let alone before camp a few months later.
I just can't see how getting out of the minority of his flights (the shortest ones nonetheless) is worth skipping camp in protest. I mean how much is that honestly going to do for his anxiety? For all we know, making him fly around in his free time to overcome his fear is probably a more effective plan.
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If you look at his back story, (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7505656/iowa-state-royce-white-battle-college-basketball) I would say that it is pretty obvious, that he needs some kind of security within the Rockets organization. It couldn't be a surprise to the Rockets, if they have done any kind of research before drafting him.
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I will say though, if these issues are legitimate and not exagerated or just being pushed by his lawyers. Im sure Royce White is just as frustrated as the Rockets are.
No way. The Rockets have to be going crazy inside because of this situation.
I think the problem here is that Royce had all of his "needs" catered to while he was in college. At a university of any size and stature, the last thing you can do is put a student's health in jeopardy, especially if it is a disability. That includes if he or she is a scholarship athlete. Imagine if Iowa State forced Royce White to fly somewhere and he had an panic attack and became seriously ill. Is there anyone who believes that a major lawsuit would not have ensued?
So here you have a guy who, beyond just his sheer talent as a player, had a physical condition that Iowa State most likely bent over backwards to accommodate. He gets drafted into the league and now has to adhere to a 82-game scheduled, with coast-to-coast travel, and back-to-back nights with flights, and he is contractually obligated to adhere to this schedule. I am sure his agent told him before he was drafted that there was a way they could work around this. Of course, that is complete B.S. No professional sports franchise is going to accept missing practices, let alone games, because of his mental disorder. Yes, they probably would give him special accommodations on team flights, in hotels, in the locker room, etc...but they would not allow him to NOT DO HIS JOB!
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http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/50157/get-on-the-bus-with-royce-white
This article may put it into perspective.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/50157/get-on-the-bus-with-royce-white
This article may put it into perspective.
"" White's news prompted blogger Matt Moore to go to some lengths to describe his own history of panic attacks. The memo is that slowly, slowly, you learn to deal with it:
Triggers for people with panic attacks are completely separate. When I thought about White trying to get acclimated to NBA life, my concern wasn't for him stepping up and hitting free throws with the game on the line. He's done that. That's in the context of something he can lose himself in, the least likely place for him to have an episode.
But the idea of meeting new teammates and coaches, with more experience, high expectations, little sympathy and then having to deal with the media? I got a little twitchy just sitting here thinking about it from my comfy chair.
The biggest thing to understand about White's situation is something that coaches hammer as a cliche over and over again. It's a process. Learning to deal with my anxiety took me a decade. It's still a problem at times. I don't let it affect my work, or my personal life. It's just something you work at, and what White's doing is what he needs to: working at it. ""
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It sounds like they have an agreement in place (http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/19737112/2012/10/04/royce-white-says-agreement-in-place) but are waiting on approval from the league and the players' union.
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I'm going to put my 2 cents in...
I am disabled, now, I expect accommodations to be made for me in a work place... like ramps and easy access to my work area. However, I DO NOT expect to keep a job or be allowed to even have the job if I cannot PERFORM the job! He isn't asking for things to help do his job (like the laws for the disabled), he is REFUSING to perform his job! If he gets fired, that is not discrimination (I wouldn't expect to be treated with kid gloves), that is simply firing someone who isn't performing their duty!
Then you guys are comparing injured players, well they get injured doing their job. If they get injured doing things outside of work well they have provisions for such things, they could void your contract or other things depending on how you injured yourself! His "injury" is not work related. I'm not going to get hired at a job and then go make demands.
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I hope this goes to the Supreme Court only because it's so unusual. What exactly is a reasonable workplace accommodation here? What exactly is him performing the core functions of his job? Is an accommodation "You don't have to guard Mett World Weirdo" or is it missing games? I wonder if there's any precedent whatsoever for this? Soldiers with PTSD? Astronaughts?
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I hope this goes to the Supreme Court only because it's so unusual. What exactly is a reasonable workplace accommodation here? What exactly is him performing the core functions of his job? Is an accommodation "You don't have to guard Mett World Weirdo" or is it missing games? I wonder if there's any precedent whatsoever for this? Soldiers with PTSD? Astronaughts?
Soldiers with PTSD aren't sent out to fight, we ship 'em home. Astronauts, I'm sure don't work either, that's why it's rare to hear something about a crazy one (that woman went mad over a man LOL... that's normal). If you can't perform your job when it has nothing to do with some injury you sustained at work, I don't think they should be responsible for you. I just don't see it as discrimination. I'm sure they have done a lot to help him, it's not working so far (I think he has been getting help in college too besides them letting him drive to all the games)... do they have to bend over backwards for him?
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It sounds like they have an agreement in place (http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/19737112/2012/10/04/royce-white-says-agreement-in-place) but are waiting on approval from the league and the players' union.
I think this is great news from both sides. Amicable, pragmatic. Good news for Rockets fans and Royce White.
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According to the National Alliance on Mental Illness, over 40 million Americans suffer from some type of anxiety disorder. That's 18 per cent of American adults.
This can be a teaching moment for the entire country, as well as an inspiration for many of those people if things work out with White and the Rockets.
It seems to me that White wants to ease into the NBA lifestyle in a way that will both be healthy to him, his success and the team's success. I have no problem with his approach either. As the wonderful Henry Abbott point, an illness is an illness.
Would Celtics fans want Avery Bradley in training camp right now, if there''s a chance his participation in camp would endanger his long term career, thereby weakening his team? Same thing here.
If White can manage his mental illness, he's going to be a heck of an NAB player.
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Well said, TripleOT.