CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: lightspeed5 on September 26, 2012, 01:47:59 PM
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"Rondo said the only Celtics that didn't play were Pierce and Fab Melo. Atlanta Hawks forward Josh Smith, a close friend of Rondo's, also played."
Josh Smith came out to LA and hung out with the entire celtics team--- no other non-celtics involved.
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Getting a head start on learning the offense. ;D
That said, why doesn't Josh Smith organize an Atlanta Hawks practice instead of practicing with the Celtics? That would seem to be more productive, no?
EDIT: In another thread this was quoted as being a flag football game, in which case, still silly, but my comment about him learning the offense seems off. And also, what must it be like to fly to LA just to play flag football with your friends? Sigh.
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Love the idea.
The plus about practicing with us is that he wouldnt have a hard time picking a new team next year ;D
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He played flag football didn't say he practiced with them
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Well, he IS close friends with Rondo....he does love BOS - giving our crowd much props after our playoff win last year....
That being said, I'd be VERY hesitant, if I were Danny, about pulling the plug on ANY potential trade just yet. I just feel that our squad, as is, is ready to do some serious damage well into June next year - and year after that.
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Josh Smith likes playing with Rondo. If I was that athletic I'd take any chance I got to play in a pick-up game with Rondo.
Rondo also likes playing with Josh Smith. He says they really make each other better.
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Well, he IS close friends with Rondo....he does love BOS - giving our crowd much props after our playoff win last year....
That being said, I'd be VERY hesitant, if I were Danny, about pulling the plug on ANY potential trade just yet. I just feel that our squad, as is, is ready to do some serious damage well into June next year - and year after that.
The NBA is a league of where stars flourish and teams win because of stars. I, like you, also love our team on paper, depth in all 5 positions. With that said, adding a star will take this roster to the next level. I am all for getting Josh Smith if all we had to give up is Avery and Bass.
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Well, he IS close friends with Rondo....he does love BOS - giving our crowd much props after our playoff win last year....
That being said, I'd be VERY hesitant, if I were Danny, about pulling the plug on ANY potential trade just yet. I just feel that our squad, as is, is ready to do some serious damage well into June next year - and year after that.
The NBA is a league of where stars flourish and teams win because of stars. I, like you, also love our team on paper, depth in all 5 positions. With that said, adding a star will take this roster to the next level. I am all for getting Josh Smith if all we had to give up is Avery and Bass.
I am not a huge Josh Smith fan, but definitely open to him coming here in the right deal. I can't wait to see how this team looks as they start playing together. I'd imagine Doc's head is spinning about the many combination he'll have to choose from. I am psyched to see how this plays out. If C's see a need come January, go get Smith. Darko, Rondo and Smith could comprise 3/5 of the worst FT shooting lineup in history.
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Is not clear that the boost to our team's performance by adding Josh Smith would be at all equal to that of adding Avery Bradley. Remember Bradley was replacing Ray Allen. We are assuming that JET and Lee would replace Bradley.
You are trading Bradley for Smith with Bass to fill the void left by Smith. We need Bradley more long term than we need Smith.
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Has anyone considered the possibility of J-Smoove pulling a Howard and forcing his hand to Boston? Maybe we can even get him for pennies on the dollar if he tells Atlanta he won't sign with anyone else.
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Has anyone considered the possibility of J-Smoove pulling a Howard and forcing his hand to Boston? Maybe we can even get him for pennies on the dollar if he tells Atlanta he won't sign with anyone else.
funny i just said thaat in the other thread lol
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Has anyone considered the possibility of J-Smoove pulling a Howard and forcing his hand to Boston? Maybe we can even get him for pennies on the dollar if he tells Atlanta he won't sign with anyone else.
The problem is, the Lakers still gave up a heck of an asset to get Howard, and the C's might not have that.
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Has anyone considered the possibility of J-Smoove pulling a Howard and forcing his hand to Boston? Maybe we can even get him for pennies on the dollar if he tells Atlanta he won't sign with anyone else.
The problem is, the Lakers still gave up a heck of an asset to get Howard, and the C's might not have that.
problem with that is smith is not on howards level. Howard is THE BEST CENTER in the league. Smith Although is my favorite forward he is not the best the NBA has to offer.
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Has anyone considered the possibility of J-Smoove pulling a Howard and forcing his hand to Boston? Maybe we can even get him for pennies on the dollar if he tells Atlanta he won't sign with anyone else.
Now THAT I would LOVE...BOS is due to have someone fall into their laps, Pau Gasol-style.
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Has anyone considered the possibility of J-Smoove pulling a Howard and forcing his hand to Boston? Maybe we can even get him for pennies on the dollar if he tells Atlanta he won't sign with anyone else.
The problem is, the Lakers still gave up a heck of an asset to get Howard, and the C's might not have that.
problem with that is smith is not on howards level. Howard is THE BEST CENTER in the league. Smith Although is my favorite forward he is not the best the NBA has to offer.
Right. But the C's still have to give up salary to match him. And Atlanta may not want to take it on.
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Has anyone considered the possibility of J-Smoove pulling a Howard and forcing his hand to Boston? Maybe we can even get him for pennies on the dollar if he tells Atlanta he won't sign with anyone else.
The problem is, the Lakers still gave up a heck of an asset to get Howard, and the C's might not have that.
problem with that is smith is not on howards level. Howard is THE BEST CENTER in the league. Smith Although is my favorite forward he is not the best the NBA has to offer.
Right. But the C's still have to give up salary to match him. And Atlanta may not want to take it on.
I see your point, but if im Atlanta don't i want to get some young assets instead of just letting him walk with nothing in return?
Danny's hand was forced like this with the Perk trade. He knew we weren't going to resign Perk so we took back some young assets even though our preference was obviously James Harden. We didn't get our first option but looking back on it now it seems we certainly won that trade in the long run.
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Has anyone considered the possibility of J-Smoove pulling a Howard and forcing his hand to Boston? Maybe we can even get him for pennies on the dollar if he tells Atlanta he won't sign with anyone else.
The problem is, the Lakers still gave up a heck of an asset to get Howard, and the C's might not have that.
problem with that is smith is not on howards level. Howard is THE BEST CENTER in the league. Smith Although is my favorite forward he is not the best the NBA has to offer.
Right. But the C's still have to give up salary to match him. And Atlanta may not want to take it on.
I see your point, but if im Atlanta don't i want to get some young assets instead of just letting him walk with nothing in return?
Danny's hand was forced like this with the Perk trade. He knew we weren't going to resign Perk so we took back some young assets even though our preference was obviously James Harden. We didn't get our first option but looking back on it now it seems we certainly won that trade in the long run.
The problem is, if Jeff Green or whoever the C's are sending for salary does not turn out to be a bargain, or the young guys the C's are sending are not absolute studs...then Atlanta could probably get better value just by taking on teams bad contracts with the cap space they would have.
And this is where the catch 22 comes in. For Atlanta to want to deal with Boston, who don't have expiring contracts, it means the C's will have to either pay a premium in other assets to make up for the contracts Atlanta is taking on, or it means that the contracts Atlanta is taking on, are players who are really exceeding their contracts value...in which case, I am not sure I want Smith that badly.
I think there are scenarios where this could happen. But its going to be difficult.
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I do not understand...
How about waiting for next year when he is free to choose his team..?
I wouldn't mind going above the tax a little bit for the 2 years that KG would have left...
Why give up great assets like Bass and Bradley for 3 months of JSmoove when we can have all three the year after..?
I am thinking next year and beyond :
Rondo - Bradley - Green - JSmoove - Darko
with a veteran bench of :
Terry - Lee - Pierce - Garnett - Bass
and a young group of :
Smith - Christmas - Joseph - Sully - Melo
So we could basically get JSmoove for Wilcox (and Jamar Smith for Collins) the year we will be defending our championship!!
Who says no..???
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Is not clear that the boost to our team's performance by adding Josh Smith would be at all equal to that of adding Avery Bradley. Remember Bradley was replacing Ray Allen. We are assuming that JET and Lee would replace Bradley.
You are trading Bradley for Smith with Bass to fill the void left by Smith. We need Bradley more long term than we need Smith.
Tp. Idk why people underestimate Bradley's potential on the norm.
Getting Smith is getting a more "talented" player, who's judgement is questionable, at a position at which where we're basically set, and with a potentially great yungin in Sullinger.
Bradley is programmed to play lockdown D, and is still improving his offense. He may become something REALLY special. I think he already is.
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If we somehow would be able to get smoove without giving up bradley....sounds too good to be true i know but imagine that defensive lineup:
Pg Rondo
Sg Bradley
Sf Pierce
Pf Smith
C KG
WOW!
Pierce being maybe the worst defender in the unit which doesnt say much, you could basically put any scrub in the league at the 3 and still shut down any teams offense.
I mean WOW!
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Id trade Bass and Green for Smith ..but Ids keep Sully and Fab ..they are going to be really good one day .
Hate to trade Bradley, he is nearly my favorite Celtic :-Xs
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Gotta say that I am not a fan of Smith's and it has mostly to do with his love of his extremely erratic outside shooting. The way he falls in love with the outside shot and then completely forgets he is bast suited to play in the paint reminds me of Antoine Walker. Walker drove me nuts shooting threes instead of going in the paint.
If Josh Smith were to play a more post oriented game, I would welcome him here.
It would also explain the Jeff Green contract as Green and Bass for Smith add up. Now maybe the C's would have to get a third team involved to take on Green's and/or Bass' contract while sending young players or expiring contracts to the Hawks, but a Bass/Green for Smith deal makes sense on a lot of levels.
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It would also explain the Jeff Green contract as Green and Bass for Smith add up. Now maybe the C's would have to get a third team involved to take on Green's and/or Bass' contract while sending young players or expiring contracts to the Hawks, but a Bass/Green for Smith deal makes sense on a lot of levels.
I'm apprehensive in trading the two...unless for Josh Smith (or better of course). If Danny pulls this off, there's no question who's the best GM.
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Well, he IS close friends with Rondo....he does love BOS - giving our crowd much props after our playoff win last year....
That being said, I'd be VERY hesitant, if I were Danny, about pulling the plug on ANY potential trade just yet. I just feel that our squad, as is, is ready to do some serious damage well into June next year - and year after that.
The NBA is a league of where stars flourish and teams win because of stars. I, like you, also love our team on paper, depth in all 5 positions. With that said, adding a star will take this roster to the next level. I am all for getting Josh Smith if all we had to give up is Avery and Bass.
This!!!
I would be cut to give up Bradley as I really like that kid, but there are no guarantees he's going to become a future all-star, while we Smith will be.
Giving up bass at this stage is really no big deal. We can start smith in his place, then we still have Sullinger, Wilcox and Green all capable of backing up the PF spot - Bass becomes entirely redundant.
I'd rather give up Lee and Bass, bit I doubt Atlanta would bite on that. The only guys I wouldn't want to give up are KG, Pierce, Rondo and Green.
Green because (bar Rondo) he and Bradley have the highest upside, and we need a backup SF to back up Pierce more.than we need a backup SG (we already have Rondo, Terry and Lee at guard).
PF right now is without question our weakest position. We have a dominant PG (Rondo) a dominant offensive SG (Terry), a dominant defensive SG (Bradley), a dominant SF (Pierce) and. Dominant C (Garnett). Every PF we have (Bass, Wilcox, Sullinger) is a purely a role player at this point in their careers - we are one dominant PF away from being right up therewwith LA and Mia talent wise with our starting 5.
Imagine this roster:
Starters:
C- Kevin Garnett
PF - Josh Smith
SF - Paul Pierce
SG - Courtney Lee
PG - Rajon Rondo
Bench:
Collins
Milicic
Wilcox
Sullinger
Green
Terry
Joseph
Christmas
Player X (gained from ATL)
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I would call up Atlanta's FO and offer Pierce and filler for Smith in a heartbeat.
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I would call up Atlanta's FO and offer Pierce and filler for Smith in a heartbeat.
C'mon Man not the Captain..... :o
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I would think that Atlanta would be all over getting Bass and Green (especially if JG proves he is close to the 16 and 6 player at OKC) if they know they are likely to lose Josh for nothing at the end of the season.
Smitty77
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I would think that Atlanta would be all over getting Bass and Green (especially if JG proves he is close to the 16 and 6 player at OKC) if they know they are likely to lose Josh for nothing at the end of the season.
Smitty77
I am not so sure. If they don't want to pay Smith, or just think he is gone, do they really want to spend $15 million a year for 3 years on two role players? Wouldn't they rather want expiring contracts and picks to have the financial flexibility to rebuild?
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I would call up Atlanta's FO and offer Pierce and filler for Smith in a heartbeat.
C'mon Man not the Captain..... :o
Agreed.
Pierce may not be young, but he's still an All-Star, a top 15 clutch scorer and a versatile player who can contribute to the game in almost every way.
If Boston were looking to rebuilt from scratch all of this would be unimportant, but the team Boston has assembled makes it obvious they want to win now - if that's the case, Pierce is one guy you DON'T let go of.
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Gotta say that I am not a fan of Smith's and it has mostly to do with his love of his extremely erratic outside shooting. The way he falls in love with the outside shot and then completely forgets he is bast suited to play in the paint reminds me of Antoine Walker. Walker drove me nuts shooting threes instead of going in the paint.
I had the same holdup, but you have to think he wouldn't have the same game here, seeing as Atlanta and Boston couldn't be further apart in terms of offensive schemes. They were an isolation team first and foremost, that didn't like to pass and had trouble getting Smith the ball down low (especially when Johnson was doing his own iso and wanted Smith out of the way). This resulted in Smith having to play a lot of point, and setting up his teammates from a face-up triple-threat position (and every team knows which of the three options he'll burn you with least often).
I feel like he'd still do that here, just less often. With our style of play and vastly different personnel I think the way we would set him up would curb his appetite for the jumpshot. He'd realize he can still get his points, just in a way that's much easier here than in Atlanta.
Three years ago he was asked to stop taking 3s for the better of the team and he immediately did it cold turkey. He's willing to win, but probably realized a while ago he can't do it with the Hawks. If we told him instead of so many jump shots, he can move the ball and actually get the ball back (never happen in Atlanta) I don't see why he wouldn't listen to reason. I think people underrate what it's like playing with KG and seeing such a lethal player pass up open shots to keep the ball moving. It's a contagious sort of unselfishness and I bet you feel pretty stupid if he passes up an open shot so you, a lesser shooter, can take a contested shot (and when he says something about your mom afterwards). Most teammates aren't used to this and change their game accordingly, the most glaring examples being Jeff Green and Krstic who came from an offensive set almost identical to Atlanta.
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Gotta say that I am not a fan of Smith's and it has mostly to do with his love of his extremely erratic outside shooting. The way he falls in love with the outside shot and then completely forgets he is bast suited to play in the paint reminds me of Antoine Walker. Walker drove me nuts shooting threes instead of going in the paint.
I had the same holdup, but you have to think he wouldn't have the same game here, seeing as Atlanta and Boston couldn't be further apart in terms of offensive schemes. They were an isolation team first and foremost, that didn't like to pass and had trouble getting Smith the ball down low (especially when Johnson was doing his own iso and wanted Smith out of the way). This resulted in Smith having to play a lot of point, and setting up his teammates from a face-up triple-threat position (and every team knows which of the three options he'll burn you with least often).
I feel like he'd still do that here, just less often. With our style of play and vastly different personnel I think the way we would set him up would curb his appetite for the jumpshot. He'd realize he can still get his points, just in a way that's much easier here than in Atlanta.
Three years ago he was asked to stop taking 3s for the better of the team and he immediately did it cold turkey. He's willing to win, but probably realized a while ago he can't do it with the Hawks. If we told him instead of so many jump shots, he can move the ball and actually get the ball back (never happen in Atlanta) I don't see why he wouldn't listen to reason. I think people underrate what it's like playing with KG and seeing such a lethal player pass up open shots to keep the ball moving. It's a contagious sort of unselfishness and I bet you feel pretty stupid if he passes up an open shot so you, a lesser shooter, can take a contested shot (and when he says something about your mom afterwards). Most teammates aren't used to this and change their game accordingly, the most glaring examples being Jeff Green and Krstic who came from an offensive set almost identical to Atlanta.
I agree with a lot of this and would hope and pray you are right if Smith ever got here. I have to say he impressed the heck out of me with his defense and rebounding in last years playoffs.
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I would call up Atlanta's FO and offer Pierce and filler for Smith in a heartbeat.
C'mon Man not the Captain..... :o
Agreed.
Pierce may not be young, but he's still an All-Star, a top 15 clutch scorer and a versatile player who can contribute to the game in almost every way.
If Boston were looking to rebuilt from scratch all of this would be unimportant, but the team Boston has assembled makes it obvious they want to win now - if that's the case, Pierce is one guy you DON'T let go of.
Why exactly is Pierce the guy you "DON'T" want to let go??
Did he not get schooled by Lebron in the playoffs last year?
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I would call up Atlanta's FO and offer Pierce and filler for Smith in a heartbeat.
C'mon Man not the Captain..... :o
Agreed.
Pierce may not be young, but he's still an All-Star, a top 15 clutch scorer and a versatile player who can contribute to the game in almost every way.
If Boston were looking to rebuilt from scratch all of this would be unimportant, but the team Boston has assembled makes it obvious they want to win now - if that's the case, Pierce is one guy you DON'T let go of.
Why exactly is Pierce the guy you "DON'T" want to let go??
Did he not get schooled by Lebron in the playoffs last year?
Pierce was playing with a strained MCL and even them he did rather well in that series...
the dagger 3 in lebron's face in game 5?
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Hum wonder what the HAWKs , Hawk fans , GM , ect think about their star flying across the country to practice a team of guys he SHOULD be building a bad attitude about...LOL ???
I wonder it JSmith is gonna wear a Celtics tee while he practices (with the enemy) . 8)
One on one with a Celtic or two is one thing, but to join a near full team gether together on the opposite side of the country and so near preseason??? ....well, that strikes me of kinda like cheating on your spouse.
If he wants to be a Celtic so bad...I'm all for accomidating him
I think Josh ..know we are gonna hang #18 this year and WANTS on this runna away train.
with a SEE YA ..JEFF GREEN ;D
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I would call up Atlanta's FO and offer Pierce and filler for Smith in a heartbeat.
C'mon Man not the Captain..... :o
Agreed.
Pierce may not be young, but he's still an All-Star, a top 15 clutch scorer and a versatile player who can contribute to the game in almost every way.
If Boston were looking to rebuilt from scratch all of this would be unimportant, but the team Boston has assembled makes it obvious they want to win now - if that's the case, Pierce is one guy you DON'T let go of.
Why exactly is Pierce the guy you "DON'T" want to let go??
Did he not get schooled by Lebron in the playoffs last year?
Sorry just not comfortable letting our top scorer go. PP is needed just like KG and not only for the CHEMISTRY factor. Yeah he slowed down but how many wings out there can knock down countless 3's in transition?
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I just don't understand the love for Smith around here.
Smith is a better player than Bass, granted. But Bass showed a lot of improvement defensively last year, and has better shooting numbers than Smith. He struggled a bit more at the rim, but nothing crazy.
Bass comes at less than half the price of Smith though, so if you're going to double the price, you better double the production. There's no way in hell Smith is literally twice the player Bass is.
We got a bargain on Bass, and now you want to trade that away for a marginally better player at twice the cost?
Come on...
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I just don't understand the love for Smith around here.
Smith is a better player than Bass, granted. But Bass showed a lot of improvement defensively last year, and has better shooting numbers than Smith. He struggled a bit more at the rim, but nothing crazy.
Bass comes at less than half the price of Smith though, so if you're going to double the price, you better double the production. There's no way in hell Smith is literally twice the player Bass is.
We got a bargain on Bass, and now you want to trade that away for a marginally better player at twice the cost?
Come on...
His elite defense, exceptional rebounding and okay passing alone make him a better player than Bass. Now add in the fact that he is a much better post player and yes, I think Smith is worth twice the money that Bass is.
Heck, I am not even a Josh Smith fan and I can see that.
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to me...bass is ONLY a close range shooter when open. All Bass offer is a mid-range shot when open. When the D got to him he would either miss the shot or look like a deer in headlights. He don't snag many rebounds, No power throw downs, not exciting to watch, not known to block shots. Bass is a role player for a reason he is clearly not a starter.
On the other hand we have J-smooth. When he steps on the court he probably is getting a double double at least REB, PTS. He also gets a fair share of blocks and steals(ppl seem to forget he gets atleast a steal a game). Yeah he takes bad long range 2's but its obvious why he does. ATL had noone but him and when your team is in panic mode you look for your star to take the shot right? Thats what he tried to do.
You say bass has better shooting number, well of course. Bass takes waaaay less shots then smith beacuse bass is not a star. Also I would like to point out that their FG % is not that far apart lol.
Who would you rather see go against Lebron? Smith or Bass? Of course not bass he has no D.
Also would like to say smith had 3x more steals then bass
2x more blocks
4x more assist
2x more rebounds
=D
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg_VMHfuS1o take a look
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I would call up Atlanta's FO and offer Pierce and filler for Smith in a heartbeat.
C'mon Man not the Captain..... :o
Agreed.
Pierce may not be young, but he's still an All-Star, a top 15 clutch scorer and a versatile player who can contribute to the game in almost every way.
If Boston were looking to rebuilt from scratch all of this would be unimportant, but the team Boston has assembled makes it obvious they want to win now - if that's the case, Pierce is one guy you DON'T let go of.
Why exactly is Pierce the guy you "DON'T" want to let go??
Did he not get schooled by Lebron in the playoffs last year?
Because I honestly don't think that Josh Smith, even though I'd love him in Green - would fair any better vs LeBron.
And Josh Smith, while a very good player - is not a great shooter. He can get streaky and score from outside, but it's no where near the ability of Paul Pierce - even at 34 years of age.
While - again - I've been a HUGE proponent of Josh Smith in Green, such a trade for Paul Pierce would leave a void of leadership and scoring - especially from the free-throw line.
Josh Smith is decent from the charity stripe, at best.
Opponents would collapse on us, in that trading Paul Pierce would take away one of our BEST 3-pt shooters (with Ray Allen departing for MIA).
I'd bet that Josh Smith would get better playing in BOS - for Doc Rivers and next to Rondo and KG. But PLEASE - not at the expense of Paul Pierce.
Paul Pierce, while never flashy throughout his career - is STILL an elite player. He's a good defender and an elite scorer, still.
For me, I'd rather just sit with what Danny has done with the roster so far...let's see what this group can do.
I realize that Danny Ferry could possibly trade Josh before the deadline in order to at least get some value for him, but I wouldn't want to touch our Big Three - Rondo/Paul or KG right now.
EDITED - Paul Pierce is ONE OF our best 3-pt shooters - not the best one statistically.
That goes to Jet - at 38% for his career. Paul is roughly 37% from deep for his career.
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Can we all just take a second and PRAY that Smith doesn't land with the Lakers? Something like Smith and Harris for Gasol, young players and draft picks works. Seems unlikely but you never know with LA's uncanny ability to get any player they want giving little in return.
I mean if the Lakers have Kobe, Howard, Nash and Smith there is really no need to have a playoff. Lakers will win it all.
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Can we all just take a second and PRAY that Smith doesn't land with the Lakers? Something like Smith and Harris for Gasol, young players and draft picks works. Seems unlikely but you never know with LA's uncanny ability to get any player they want giving little in return.
I mean if the Lakers have Kobe, Howard, Nash and Smith there is really no need to have a playoff. Lakers will win it all.
I don't think LA has any draft picks left, do they? Didn't they give several picks just to get Nash?
I'm not even 100% sure they'd do Gasol for Smith straight up. Gasol, while still an elite player, won't be elite for much longer, and is already showing signs of decline.
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Haven't read the entire thread so this may have been asked already.
Why not just wait for Smith to become an UFA and grab him next summer.
Or, make a trade with some of our younger players for an expiring contract and another very good younger player to pair with Rondo and Smith.
Don't trade our players for Smith - trade them to clear space to get him next summer and get another young piece to pair with Rondo and Smith as well.
If Smith really wants to play with Rondo and and the Celtics, he probably can just refuse to sign an extension with anyone if he's traded....
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To add on -
I really like our young crop of players and think we should let them all grow together. The ideal scenario to me is to figure out the way to get Smith in the off season with giving up our young players.
Melo / Milicic
Smith / Bass / Sully
Jeff Green
Lee / Bradley
Rondo / Point
if Melo pans out in 2-3 years to be a decent center, that team could be very good.
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Haven't read the entire thread so this may have been asked already.
Why not just wait for Smith to become an UFA and grab him next summer.
Or, make a trade with some of our younger players for an expiring contract and another very good younger player to pair with Rondo and Smith.
Don't trade our players for Smith - trade them to clear space to get him next summer and get another young piece to pair with Rondo and Smith as well.
If Smith really wants to play with Rondo and and the Celtics, he probably can just refuse to sign an extension with anyone if he's traded....
That's the thing, though - I'm betting that Ferry won't simply let Josh Smith walk.
I'm sure that if Ferry decides that Smith isn't in ATL's future he will at least try to get something in return for him.
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Why not just wait for Smith to become an UFA and grab him next summer?
Mostly because we won't have any space under the cap to sign him, and if I am not mistaken, next year sign and trades become a thing of the past for teams over so much salary, which the Celtics might be. I think I will have to research that.
If the C's are to get Smith they would have to trade in season this year to do it, most probably.
EDIT: Teams above the luxury threshold will not be able to do sign and trades next year. The C's projected salary based on current contracts for next year is about $71 million for 10 players. Add in two minimum player exceptions to get to the 12 player number and the C's are real close to where the luxury threshold will be so it is possible the C's will not be able to do a sign and trade next year.
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Agreed re Ferry wanting to get a deal done. But if Smith refuses to sign an extension with whichever team Ferry can get a deal done with, Smith can force his UFA hand.
But as Nickagenta clarified (thanks), we won't have the cap room to sign him as a free agent.
I guess a Bass/ Bradley and Picks deal for Smith would be an option, but it would be real tough to see Bradley go. As much as i like Sully and his perceived potential and also because Smith would play the PF spot, I'd almost rather work a deal of Sully & Bass for Smith.
KG / Milicic / Collins
Josh Smith / Back up
Pierce / Jeff Green
Lee / Bradley
Rondo / Jet
I just think Bradley is an impact player. Maybe that's premature based on his volume of work thus far, but I believe it to be true.
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i'd do something like Bass and Green for Smith and Farmar. Smith is one of the leagues premiere defensive stoppers and is just entering his prime. Factor in that he wants to play here and his chemistry with Rondo and landing Smith would be a win.
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Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.
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I think any J Smith move depends on how we do this season. If for some reason we stay healthy and falter with this squad, I could see Pierce being part of a trade for Smith. We will have to trade youth - either Bradley or Sully, or possibly both - to facilitate that type of a deal because there is no way Pierce would play for a crummy ATL team - he would just retire.
I can't see ATL biting on Jeff Green unless he has a great year this year, but if he does that we are going to the EC Finals at least (assuming health) - so why would we deal him? We are not getting Smith for Brandon Bass and Bradley.
I would prefer not to trade Bradley or Sully for him, and if ATL wanted both I'd hang up the phone.
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I pretty much agree with everything you just said mctyson.
I think both Bradley and Sully could become very special players.
Bradley:
With his defense and as an ideal combo guard asset for a very good team. I think he was just starting to scratch the surface last year. I think as his ball handling continues to improve - it took a good leap forward last year - he will be able to get anywhere on the floor he wants with the ball. His defense to me is already game changing.
Sully:
I think he has a very rare set of physical for a much needed low post presence on any NBA team. if he hits his ceiling, I think he could be a 20-10 type guy, especially with his free throw shooting ability.
People say he isn't an athlete - but I haven't seen other "run / jump" athletes running circles around him. He either is a better athlete than advertised or he's really smart, has great foot work and anticipation skills.
I didn't see him getting burned all over the place in summer league.
But - "if" I thought that Smith was my long term answer at PF, I would seriously consider a trade that accomplished two things heading into the summer:
1. Trading a combo of Bradley, Sully and maybe Green for another young chip that would pair very well with Smith and Rondo - either at the off guard, center or small forward position. Would have to be a blue young chipper on his rookie contract that for whatever reason the team was willing to take a 3 for 1 for. And obviously a fairly sizeable expiring contract from that team.
2. The trade allowed me to clear enough cap space to sign Smith as a Free agent.
I don't know if that's possible. But if I make the move for Smith to play with Rondo, I go all in and try to get another blue chipper to land a trio.
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I see a lot of good things about Smith's game, but I strongly disagree with the idea of acquiring him at the expense of a package including something like Bradley, Sully, and a first.
Bradley is perhaps the best on-ball defender in the world. And his offensive game is steadily improving. You don't give up a guy like that. Especially not when he could form a formidable duo with Rondo for the next decade.
Sully, though only a rookie, has the potential, in my opinion, to be a career double-double guy, a real impact player.
To me, Josh Smith doesn't equal the value of these two plus a first-rounder. Yes, he too would form a formidable duo with Rondo, and he too is an impact player, but he's only one guy, and a pretty expensive guy, at that. He also doesn't seem too disciplined offensively, and I'm concerned that he's reached his peak already.
I'd rather keep our young guys on cheap to reasonable deals and watch them develop into the solid to great players I think they'll become.
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Why not just wait for Smith to become an UFA and grab him next summer?
Mostly because we won't have any space under the cap to sign him, and if I am not mistaken, next year sign and trades become a thing of the past for teams over so much salary, which the Celtics might be. I think I will have to research that.
If the C's are to get Smith they would have to trade in season this year to do it, most probably.
EDIT: Teams above the luxury threshold will not be able to do sign and trades next year. The C's projected salary based on current contracts for next year is about $71 million for 10 players. Add in two minimum player exceptions to get to the 12 player number and the C's are real close to where the luxury threshold will be so it is possible the C's will not be able to do a sign and trade next year.
The best time for this trade is an extend-and-trade right before the draft, with a third team who likes either Bass or Green taking on that player. If Pierce decides he's retiring, then the trade actually becomes pretty easy, because Pierce's 2012-2013 salary can match Smith's just fine, and then his salary for 2013-2014 drops to $5 mil, and thus is not a large or long-term obligation for the Hawks against their cap. Draft picks/young players can make up the rest of the deal.
(Technically Pierce doesn't have to retire to be traded for JSmoove, but I'm going to hope that he's only traded in such a circumstance, for obvious reasons.)
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Good points Rocknroll -
I am also perfectly happy to see how Bradley follows up last year's coming out party and also how Sully pans out over the course of a full year in the league.
I also agree with someone else that Sully could have a similar impact as Big baby had during his first year - with a caveat - I think Sully's intelligence and maturity will be separating factors that might allow him to achieve much more impressive numbers than Davis did.
One other thing as well - I think Sully is a much tougher guy than Davis - both physically and mentally. Davis would never throw his weight around the way I thought he would in the paint.
I was particularly impressed with Sully in the summer league when he matched up with Leon Powe. I think he knew Powe's game and he immediately starting pushing, shoving and throwing elbows with Powe. Bad knees or not, Powe is still a tough guy and Sully went right after him.
I think he will have no issues with making his physical presence felt in the lane. He has a little bit of "nasty" to his game, which is great for a big man playing in the paint.
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Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.
I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..
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Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.
I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..
It's gotta be Bass and Green both salary-wise and to retain future young talent by keeping Bradley and Sully. Last season, Bass improved a lot but his limitations will make him level out. Green may also level out, assuming he is back at full capability.
In a sense, Green's large contract facilitates a move like this.
Smith replaces Bass but there would be a big hole at the backup 3 with Green gone. Other than that, it's a trade deadline move I would be happy with.
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Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.
I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..
It's gotta be Bass and Green both salary-wise and to retain future young talent by keeping Bradley and Sully. Last season, Bass improved a lot but his limitations will make him level out. Green may also level out, assuming he is back at full capability.
In a sense, Green's large contract facilitates a move like this.
Smith replaces Bass but there would be a big hole at the backup 3 with Green gone. Other than that, it's a trade deadline move I would be happy with.
Not so sure about that. Lee can play some SF and I really think Joseph in going to be a solid NBA player. He was the top scorer on a team that was a #1 seed in the tourney (until Fab Melo got suspended) He looks like a good athelte who can p;ay some defense and knows how to score.
I would take that with the Lee,Joseph playing sf and the upgrade at PF with Smith for Bass,Green and picks
PG:Rondo Terry vet min
SG: Bradley Lee xmas
SF: PP Joseph Lee
PF: Smith Sully Wilcox
C:kg Darko Collins
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Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.
I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..
It's gotta be Bass and Green both salary-wise and to retain future young talent by keeping Bradley and Sully. Last season, Bass improved a lot but his limitations will make him level out. Green may also level out, assuming he is back at full capability.
In a sense, Green's large contract facilitates a move like this.
Smith replaces Bass but there would be a big hole at the backup 3 with Green gone. Other than that, it's a trade deadline move I would be happy with.
Not so sure about that. Lee can play some SF and I really think Joseph in going to be a solid NBA player. He was the top scorer on a team that was a #1 seed in the tourney (until Fab Melo got suspended) He looks like a good athelte who can p;ay some defense and knows how to score.
I would take that with the Lee,Joseph playing sf and the upgrade at PF with Smith for Bass,Green and picks
PG:Rondo Terry vet min
SG: Bradley Lee xmas
SF: PP Joseph Lee
PF: Smith Sully Wilcox
C:kg Darko Collins
I like your enthusiasm, but of those two, only Lee could play backup SF minutes in the playoffs. Joseph, while a promising young player is not the answer. That said, Doc could be creative with both big and smaller lineups and develop a playoff rotation that masks the lack of depth at the 3, after this trade. It could work. 8)
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Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.
I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..
It's gotta be Bass and Green both salary-wise and to retain future young talent by keeping Bradley and Sully. Last season, Bass improved a lot but his limitations will make him level out. Green may also level out, assuming he is back at full capability.
In a sense, Green's large contract facilitates a move like this.
Smith replaces Bass but there would be a big hole at the backup 3 with Green gone. Other than that, it's a trade deadline move I would be happy with.
Not so sure about that. Lee can play some SF and I really think Joseph in going to be a solid NBA player. He was the top scorer on a team that was a #1 seed in the tourney (until Fab Melo got suspended) He looks like a good athelte who can p;ay some defense and knows how to score.
I would take that with the Lee,Joseph playing sf and the upgrade at PF with Smith for Bass,Green and picks
PG:Rondo Terry vet min
SG: Bradley Lee xmas
SF: PP Joseph Lee
PF: Smith Sully Wilcox
C:kg Darko Collins
honestly, it all depends how well jeff green does. jeff green mostly at the 3, in the celtics system, can be close to as good as josh smith. im not saying he's played up to the level of josh smith so far in his career, but he can do it this year.
Additionally, if you were to trade bass and green for smith, i really wouldn't be worried about the 3 spot, because although he plays the 4 in atlanta, he is really a combo guard with strong leanings towards the 4. that is, he can play the 3 if needed, he can guard lebron to put it bluntly.
and just out of curiosity, how about jeff green, brandon bass, and a 1st for josh smith and a 1st?
personally, i think danny would be more inclined to try and wait till draft day and swing a trade of bradley and bass for a top three pick and grab a potential superstar to set up the team after pierce and KG retire.
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I get that Smith is better than Green, but how much? We know what Smith is, a talented defender who can run and finish but has an identity crisis as a jumpshooter.
Green can only get better IMO. Smooth in transition, nice jumper from all over, good post moves against SF's, and good D.
I'd go for Smith if we can do something like Bass/Bradley/Melo/picks/whatever else to make salaries match.
Rather go after DMC if we are gonna make a big move.
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Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.
I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..
It's gotta be Bass and Green both salary-wise and to retain future young talent by keeping Bradley and Sully. Last season, Bass improved a lot but his limitations will make him level out. Green may also level out, assuming he is back at full capability.
In a sense, Green's large contract facilitates a move like this.
Smith replaces Bass but there would be a big hole at the backup 3 with Green gone. Other than that, it's a trade deadline move I would be happy with.
Not so sure about that. Lee can play some SF and I really think Joseph in going to be a solid NBA player. He was the top scorer on a team that was a #1 seed in the tourney (until Fab Melo got suspended) He looks like a good athelte who can p;ay some defense and knows how to score.
I would take that with the Lee,Joseph playing sf and the upgrade at PF with Smith for Bass,Green and picks
PG:Rondo Terry vet min
SG: Bradley Lee xmas
SF: PP Joseph Lee
PF: Smith Sully Wilcox
C:kg Darko Collins
honestly, it all depends how well jeff green does. jeff green mostly at the 3, in the celtics system, can be close to as good as josh smith. im not saying he's played up to the level of josh smith so far in his career, but he can do it this year.
Additionally, if you were to trade bass and green for smith, i really wouldn't be worried about the 3 spot, because although he plays the 4 in atlanta, he is really a combo guard with strong leanings towards the 4. that is, he can play the 3 if needed, he can guard lebron to put it bluntly.
and just out of curiosity, how about jeff green, brandon bass, and a 1st for josh smith and a 1st?
personally, i think danny would be more inclined to try and wait till draft day and swing a trade of bradley and bass for a top three pick and grab a potential superstar to set up the team after pierce and KG retire.
Hey if Smith can keep up with the quicker SF's in this league then I'm all for it. I do think ATL will want some young talent (Sully or Bradley) in addition to Green/Bass/picks. That would be a tough one. I would rather keep those two and offer Melo instead.
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Josh Smith is terrific, and would surely be an upgrade over Bass any day of the week.
But I don't think I give up JGreen and another asset for him, and I'm not entirely sure I do it straight up.
Bass, picks, some trade BS magic, whatever, but I'm just not sold enough on Josh as a key top-two player on a champion next to Rondo...more like the third banana.
As it is, I'd just as well try out Green and/or Sullinger in that role and hang on to Bradley and/or Bass as a bonus...for the trouble of being contenders while we experiment with the next generation's contender, I guess.
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Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.
I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..
It's gotta be Bass and Green both salary-wise and to retain future young talent by keeping Bradley and Sully. Last season, Bass improved a lot but his limitations will make him level out. Green may also level out, assuming he is back at full capability.
In a sense, Green's large contract facilitates a move like this.
Smith replaces Bass but there would be a big hole at the backup 3 with Green gone. Other than that, it's a trade deadline move I would be happy with.
Not so sure about that. Lee can play some SF and I really think Joseph in going to be a solid NBA player. He was the top scorer on a team that was a #1 seed in the tourney (until Fab Melo got suspended) He looks like a good athelte who can p;ay some defense and knows how to score.
I would take that with the Lee,Joseph playing sf and the upgrade at PF with Smith for Bass,Green and picks
PG:Rondo Terry vet min
SG: Bradley Lee xmas
SF: PP Joseph Lee
PF: Smith Sully Wilcox
C:kg Darko Collins
honestly, it all depends how well jeff green does. jeff green mostly at the 3, in the celtics system, can be close to as good as josh smith. im not saying he's played up to the level of josh smith so far in his career, but he can do it this year.
Additionally, if you were to trade bass and green for smith, i really wouldn't be worried about the 3 spot, because although he plays the 4 in atlanta, he is really a combo guard with strong leanings towards the 4. that is, he can play the 3 if needed, he can guard lebron to put it bluntly.
and just out of curiosity, how about jeff green, brandon bass, and a 1st for josh smith and a 1st?
personally, i think danny would be more inclined to try and wait till draft day and swing a trade of bradley and bass for a top three pick and grab a potential superstar to set up the team after pierce and KG retire.
Hey if Smith can keep up with the quicker SF's in this league then I'm all for it. I do think ATL will want some young talent (Sully or Bradley) in addition to Green/Bass/picks. That would be a tough one. I would rather keep those two and offer Melo instead.
Hmm...
Bass, Bradley, Melo, Pick? Need to find a contract to trade somehow. Krystic to the rescue? Ideas?
BUT the current roster would have to look like it needs a kick before I'd try anything...too many guys just signed.
Otherwise, I don't think Smith is a guy you grenade it for. Maybe next offseason.
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i wouldn't mind giving up Jeff Green and Bass for Josh Smith. It would mean starting Smith at the 4, and that both Josh Smith and Courtney Lee would have to both split the minutes for the back up 3 slot.
For Atlanta, they get a solid starting 3 and 4, locked up for multiple years, to go along with Horford and Jeff Teague.
sounds like the rare trade where both teams actually do come out for the better!
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I get that Smith is better than Green, but how much? We know what Smith is, a talented defender who can run and finish but has an identity crisis as a jumpshooter.
Green can only get better IMO. Smooth in transition, nice jumper from all over, good post moves against SF's, and good D.
I'd go for Smith if we can do something like Bass/Bradley/Melo/picks/whatever else to make salaries match.
Rather go after DMC if we are gonna make a big move.
sory smith is just all around better to me...im tryna find a stat where green was actually better then smith....cant find one..oh wait FT%....THATS IT
idk WHY yall are so in love with jeff green, HE IS NOTHING SPECIAL AT ALL. Never was anything special and will never be worth what we are paying for him lol. Josh Smith is a star and intimidating on D. Josh over bass and green ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.
I also want to state that smith is a double double machine and racked up 28 in one season...3 more and he would have more then green had his entire career. ppl keep getting on smiths long 2's ok I get that..But don't say jeff green is any better. Green hovers around that 4.4% fg range just like smith...as matter a fact smiths FG % was higher smh.
So smith is a better Defense of player, Rebounder, and racks up more points. So how much better is Smith compared to Green? a crap load better! Now im not getting on DMc I got nothing but love for him! But he is seriously unrealistic in my book.
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Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.
I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..
It's gotta be Bass and Green both salary-wise and to retain future young talent by keeping Bradley and Sully. Last season, Bass improved a lot but his limitations will make him level out. Green may also level out, assuming he is back at full capability.
In a sense, Green's large contract facilitates a move like this.
Smith replaces Bass but there would be a big hole at the backup 3 with Green gone. Other than that, it's a trade deadline move I would be happy with.
Not so sure about that. Lee can play some SF and I really think Joseph in going to be a solid NBA player. He was the top scorer on a team that was a #1 seed in the tourney (until Fab Melo got suspended) He looks like a good athelte who can p;ay some defense and knows how to score.
I would take that with the Lee,Joseph playing sf and the upgrade at PF with Smith for Bass,Green and picks
PG:Rondo Terry vet min
SG: Bradley Lee xmas
SF: PP Joseph Lee
PF: Smith Sully Wilcox
C:kg Darko Collins
honestly, it all depends how well jeff green does. jeff green mostly at the 3, in the celtics system, can be close to as good as josh smith. im not saying he's played up to the level of josh smith so far in his career, but he can do it this year.
Additionally, if you were to trade bass and green for smith, i really wouldn't be worried about the 3 spot, because although he plays the 4 in atlanta, he is really a combo guard with strong leanings towards the 4. that is, he can play the 3 if needed, he can guard lebron to put it bluntly.
and just out of curiosity, how about jeff green, brandon bass, and a 1st for josh smith and a 1st?
personally, i think danny would be more inclined to try and wait till draft day and swing a trade of bradley and bass for a top three pick and grab a potential superstar to set up the team after pierce and KG retire.
Hey if Smith can keep up with the quicker SF's in this league then I'm all for it. I do think ATL will want some young talent (Sully or Bradley) in addition to Green/Bass/picks. That would be a tough one. I would rather keep those two and offer Melo instead.
Hmm...
Bass, Bradley, Melo, Pick? Need to find a contract to trade somehow. Krystic to the rescue? Ideas?
BUT the current roster would have to look like it needs a kick before I'd try anything...too many guys just signed.
Otherwise, I don't think Smith is a guy you grenade it for. Maybe next offseason.
Again, you have to include both Bass and Green to make the salaries work. I agree with BostonNative that Green is just not as good. I remember when the C's drafted him thinking that is was a "safe" pick, a guy you know has enough all around talent to be productive in the NBA but not a guy who might become franchise-level player.
Ultimately I believe the best argument to bring Smith here is the excellent defense he is capable of playing (when he really applies himself, like in last year's playoffs). The sober reality is that Miami won because LeBron played out of his mind. Pierce I as good as anyone at defending him but he will need even more help and I'm not sure Green can do a better job than Smith.
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We have NO small forward to backup Pierce if Green goes. We need him, and we really need a 'jack of all trades' player off the bench who can do a little bit of everything - score, grab some boards, play some defense, run the break.
Terry is going to be our primary scorer off the bench, but while he will get the occasional assist, scoring is really gong to be the main commodity he provides.
Lee is mostly a spot up shooter and doesn't really do a lot else aside from some maybe play solid defense (I've heard mixed reports on that).
Sullinger has talent but is unproven, Wilcox can be very solid but isn't dominant, Darko and Collins are...well they are Darko and Collins.
Without Green we have a solid bench, with Green we have an exceptional bench. People may say he's not that great, but even worst case scenario (at the worst we've him) he is elite by bench player standards...and we need that. Best case scenario a fire lights under his but and he brings out some of the potential Doc and Danny have always seen in him, and then he earns every cent.
He and Terry are the last guys I want to trade outside of Pierce, KG and Rondo because they are the guys who are going to be the leaders of our second unit. If those two guys can be elite bench players it takes pressure off Lee, Sullinger, Wilcox, Collins and Milicic to be able to just play their game rather than trying to do more than they are comfortable with.
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We have NO small forward to backup Pierce if Green goes. We need him, and we really need a 'jack of all trades' player off the bench who can do a little bit of everything - score, grab some boards, play some defense, run the break.
Terry is going to be our primary scorer off the bench, but while he will get the occasional assist, scoring is really gong to be the main commodity he provides.
Lee is mostly a spot up shooter and doesn't really do a lot else aside from some maybe play solid defense (I've heard mixed reports on that).
Sullinger has talent but is unproven, Wilcox can be very solid but isn't dominant, Darko and Collins are...well they are Darko and Collins.
Without Green we have a solid bench, with Green we have an exceptional bench. People may say he's not that great, but even worst case scenario (at the worst we've him) he is elite by bench player standards...and we need that. Best case scenario a fire lights under his but and he brings out some of the potential Doc and Danny have always seen in him, and then he earns every cent.
He and Terry are the last guys I want to trade outside of Pierce, KG and Rondo because they are the guys who are going to be the leaders of our second unit. If those two guys can be elite bench players it takes pressure off Lee, Sullinger, Wilcox, Collins and Milicic to be able to just play their game rather than trying to do more than they are comfortable with.
From the way Kris was balling I see the "potential" needed to come off the bench for pierce. I'm sorry I just don't see the argument where you can tell me green is useful over anyone. Your basically saying a role player is more needed then an elite starter.
Heck Smith can play some PP and put sully in at PF at those times. Can even throw KG in a PF Smith at SF and Darko at C...A lot of different things can happen when pierce is out. Again I usually don't gush of Rooks, I usually say I can careless what they do in college its about on the court, but Kris showed me he can ball.
Aye if push come to shove then we just sign donte greene as a SF and boom....Green replaced
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We have NO small forward to backup Pierce if Green goes. We need him, and we really need a 'jack of all trades' player off the bench who can do a little bit of everything - score, grab some boards, play some defense, run the break.
Terry is going to be our primary scorer off the bench, but while he will get the occasional assist, scoring is really gong to be the main commodity he provides.
Lee is mostly a spot up shooter and doesn't really do a lot else aside from some maybe play solid defense (I've heard mixed reports on that).
Sullinger has talent but is unproven, Wilcox can be very solid but isn't dominant, Darko and Collins are...well they are Darko and Collins.
Without Green we have a solid bench, with Green we have an exceptional bench. People may say he's not that great, but even worst case scenario (at the worst we've him) he is elite by bench player standards...and we need that. Best case scenario a fire lights under his but and he brings out some of the potential Doc and Danny have always seen in him, and then he earns every cent.
He and Terry are the last guys I want to trade outside of Pierce, KG and Rondo because they are the guys who are going to be the leaders of our second unit. If those two guys can be elite bench players it takes pressure off Lee, Sullinger, Wilcox, Collins and Milicic to be able to just play their game rather than trying to do more than they are comfortable with.
From the way Kris was balling I see the "potential" needed to come off the bench for pierce. I'm sorry I just don't see the argument where you can tell me green is useful over anyone. Your basically saying a role player is more needed then an elite starter.
Heck Smith can play some PP and put sully in at PF at those times. Can even throw KG in a PF Smith at SF and Darko at C...A lot of different things can happen when pierce is out. Again I usually don't gush of Rooks, I usually say I can careless what they do in college its about on the court, but Kris showed me he can ball.
Aye if push come to shove then we just sign donte greene as a SF and boom....Green replaced
Yet another great point. Backup SF and backup SG are perhaps the easiest positions to fill of the all the positions in a 10-man depth chart. In addition, Doc can throw Lee or Smith in there for spot minutes at SF when he goes with either small or big lineups, respectively.
The more I've followed and posted on this thread, the more convinced I am that a Bass/Green/picks for Smith trade would be a great move. I think the numbers work and it means the future core would be Rondo/Bradley/Smith/Sully. Sign me up!
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3-Team trade *suggestion*
Toronto-Celtics-Hawks
Celtics* Receive- Josh Smith
Toronto* Receives- Jeff Green, Zaza Pachulia, Bos 1st round
Hawks* Receive- Andre Bargania, Brandon Bass, Darko Millic, Raptors 1st round, (2)2nd rounders from Boston.
Toronto Roster:
pg Jose Calderon/Kyle Lowry/John Lucas 3
sg Landry Fields/Terrance Ross/Alan Anderson
sf DeMar DeRozen/Quincy Acy/Amir Johnson
PF Jeff Green/Ed Davis/Linas Kleiza
C Jonas Valanciunas/ Zaza Pachu/ Aron Gray
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Hawks:
pg Devin Harris/Jeff teauge
sg Louis Williams/John Jenkins/Anthony Morrow/
sf Kyle Korver/Mike Scott/Deshawn Stevenson
pf Al Horford/Brandon Bass
C Andre Bargania/Darko Millic/Johan Petro
You already know boston
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I wouldn't be surprized to see Smith leverage his way onto the Celtics. Doc , Danny , Rondo all like the guy . Probally the team that wants to stop this more than the Hawks , is the Lakers.
My opinion is Bass , Green , Lee , and even Bradley better really stroke it .
I would love to see Josh starting backed up by Sully !! And Fab behind KG. !!!
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Actuially I just got off a Raptors forum so give me a second imma re work that trade.
eh do it later but atl gets caldron instead of the bargani
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Idea
Celtics Get: Josh Smith, Omri Casspi
Hawks Get: Fab Melo, Alonzo Gee, Darko Milicic, Celtics 1st round pick, Cavaliers 2nd round pick
Cavaliers Get: Jeff Green, Brandon Bass, Celtics 2nd round pick
Celics get Josh Smith who is an upgrade over Brandon Bass and they get Omri Casspi who can be a solid back-up at the small foward spot.
This trade works for the Hawks if they decide to rebuild. They get a center prospect, a talented player in Gee, and Darko's 1-year contract. Also, they get a couple picks to help rebuilding.
The Cavs get an athletic, veteran small foward to go with Irving and Waiters. Also, they get another veteran role player in Bass. If Jeff Green goes back to his 16 and 6 days in Okc, this is an excellent trade for the Cavs.
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Idea
Celtics Get: Josh Smith, Omri Casspi
Hawks Get: Fab Melo, Alonzo Gee, Darko Milicic, Celtics 1st round pick, Cavaliers 2nd round pick
Cavaliers Get: Jeff Green, Brandon Bass, Celtics 2nd round pick
Celics get Josh Smith who is an upgrade over Brandon Bass and they get Omri Casspi who can be a solid back-up at the small foward spot.
This trade works for the Hawks if they decide to rebuild. They get a center prospect, a talented player in Gee, and Darko's 1-year contract. Also, they get a couple picks to help rebuilding.
The Cavs get an athletic, veteran small foward to go with Irving and Waiters. Also, they get another veteran role player in Bass. If Jeff Green goes back to his 16 and 6 days in Okc, this is an excellent trade for the Cavs.
Imagine this Celtics team:
Rondo-Bradley-Pierce-Smith-Garnett
Terry-Lee-Casspi-Sullinger-Wilcox
Guard-Christmas-Joseph-Foward-Collins
Our starting 5 will lock teams down. Our bench isn't much worse than it was before. We can sign Kenyon Martin to fill that void at foward and a veteran PG.
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these trade ideas are so unncessary. i dont understand why people wont give this team a chance. our roster almost seems so surreal, one fit in with another, and they all get along, its perfectly synchronized. we dont need to trade avery away, because it would be like trading perkins away, rondo really respects him. we don't need to trade this guy or that guy. we have enough super stars as it. all our role players fit in perfectly. this team is in good shape, and adding a superstar, doesn't mean it will make our team better.
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Has anyone considered the possibility of J-Smoove pulling a Howard and forcing his hand to Boston? Maybe we can even get him for pennies on the dollar if he tells Atlanta he won't sign with anyone else.
The problem is, the Lakers still gave up a heck of an asset to get Howard, and the C's might not have that.
problem with that is smith is not on howards level. Howard is THE BEST CENTER in the league. Smith Although is my favorite forward he is not the best the NBA has to offer.
Right. But the C's still have to give up salary to match him. And Atlanta may not want to take it on.
I see your point, but if im Atlanta don't i want to get some young assets instead of just letting him walk with nothing in return?
Danny's hand was forced like this with the Perk trade. He knew we weren't going to resign Perk so we took back some young assets even though our preference was obviously James Harden. We didn't get our first option but looking back on it now it seems we certainly won that trade in the long run.
The problem is, if Jeff Green or whoever the C's are sending for salary does not turn out to be a bargain, or the young guys the C's are sending are not absolute studs...then Atlanta could probably get better value just by taking on teams bad contracts with the cap space they would have.
And this is where the catch 22 comes in. For Atlanta to want to deal with Boston, who don't have expiring contracts, it means the C's will have to either pay a premium in other assets to make up for the contracts Atlanta is taking on, or it means that the contracts Atlanta is taking on, are players who are really exceeding their contracts value...in which case, I am not sure I want Smith that badly.
I think there are scenarios where this could happen. But its going to be difficult.
OR the Celtics could get creative with a 3 team trade. Trading Green for Josh Smith, with Atlanta getting an expiring contract, some talent, and some picks. Ainge is pretty well known for his creativity. See how he pulled off the Courtney Lee trade with bubble gum, duct tape, and a ball of yarn? ;-)
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these trade ideas are so unncessary. i dont understand why people wont give this team a chance. our roster almost seems so surreal, one fit in with another, and they all get along, its perfectly synchronized. we dont need to trade avery away, because it would be like trading perkins away, rondo really respects him. we don't need to trade this guy or that guy. we have enough super stars as it. all our role players fit in perfectly. this team is in good shape, and adding a superstar, doesn't mean it will make our team better.
This might be true.
I do like the fit and choices for lineups.
I agree that Terry and Green are what puts our second unit over the top, and Wilcox could be quite good in a role there as well.
and I like that Terry and Green happen to be able to slide in next to Rondo, Pierce, and KG, if only for fun, to make one heck of a matchup-hell lineup. And that still leaves Bradley, Bass, and Wilcox (plus several guys to develop).
That's an amazingly well balanced top-8 of a rotation. I would only give up so many pieces of the top-8 of a contending rotation for a borderline allstar out of concern for chemistry.
This group will have an opportunity to show what it can do.
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I like the team the way it is as well, it seems to be an awesome group...still IMO to me there is a big if.
I feel good about Bass, JET, WILCOX and AB will make a triumphant return to save the day ;D
What worrys me or the BIG unknown , will JEFF GREEN be the 40million man or a huge letdown.
Love the team ... all I'm say in is IF GREEN disappears off the stat sheet ... And Danny knowing Josh would be willing to be a Celtic .... Green might not be in GREEN very long.
I'm not worried about IF Danny can make it happen , sure he can , I'm sure he is working on several possible angles should he need to make a move. Thats his job.
IMO..Green is a MAN under the gun folks.
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I like the team the way it is as well, it seems to be an awesome group...still IMO to me there is a big if.
I feel good about Bass, JET, WILCOX and AB will make a triumphant return to save the day ;D
What worrys me or the BIG unknown , will JEFF GREEN be the 40million man or a huge letdown.
Love the team ... all I'm say in is IF GREEN disappears off the stat sheet ... And Danny knowing Josh would be willing to be a Celtic .... Green might not be in GREEN very long.
I'm not worried about IF Danny can make it happen , sure he can , I'm sure he is working on several possible angles should he need to make a move. Thats his job.
IMO..Green is a MAN under the gun folks.
Nah.
Bass is the guy under the gun IMO: an undersized role player in a starting slot, with a more skilled $40M swing F coming off the bench and highly rated rookie draft pick expected to make a push for minutes as well, surely next season if not this one.
Green will either prove a bargain or nobody will want him.