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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: heitingas on September 06, 2012, 02:27:25 PM

Title: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: heitingas on September 06, 2012, 02:27:25 PM
http://www.rantsports.com/boston-celtics/2012/09/05/nba-rumors-boston-celtics-interested-in-matt-barnes

I like this move, Pietrus and Barnes are about equal in level. This one may come cheap.

I feel like Kris Joseph doesn't have a future in Boston, he should get waived, Jamar Smith too.

Sign Birdman to add more depth.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: hpantazo on September 06, 2012, 02:28:49 PM
this would be awesome, it would sure up our backups at the 3
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: GuyMontag on September 06, 2012, 02:29:35 PM
Hm.  Well, either way, the roster spot is going to somebody who isn't likely to play much if at all.  I'd much rather use it on a player who has the chance of improving and maybe being a contributor for multiple years (i.e. 2-3).

I'd rather give Kris Joseph the nod over Barnes.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: jbaerg on September 06, 2012, 02:32:08 PM
Yes please, get some toughness
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: MJohnnyboy on September 06, 2012, 02:33:22 PM
I'd rather have Quis back. Barnes p---ed me off in the ECF in 2010. He tried constantly to get under KG's skin.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: BballTim on September 06, 2012, 02:34:55 PM
I'd rather have Quis back. Barnes p---ed me off in the ECF in 2010. He tried constantly to get under KG's skin.

  Wouldn't you like to see him do that to James and Wade?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: rondofor3 on September 06, 2012, 02:35:41 PM
I don't care for Barnes. Would rather have Daniels back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lftX-W_Bkdk
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: the_Bird on September 06, 2012, 02:37:52 PM
I know that Barnes isn't THAT good a player any more, but in the even of an injury to Pierce or Green I'd feel a lot better with him in the game than Kris Joseph.  He's a bigger small forward, too, so if any injury to Pierce/Green were to occur, you'd have the option of either going big at the SF (Barnes) or small (Courtney Lee).  I like that flexibility.

As to Barnes being an annoying ****...  well, so's the rest of our team.  Once he's on our side, who cares?  ;)
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: MJohnnyboy on September 06, 2012, 02:38:42 PM
I'd rather have Quis back. Barnes p---ed me off in the ECF in 2010. He tried constantly to get under KG's skin.

  Wouldn't you like to see him do that to James and Wade?

Not that way. He constantly tried to get KG out of the game with technical fouls. Remember when he shoved Garnett into Stan Van Gundy?

Besides, he wouldn't play much anyway, and he's not really a defensive stopper anymore (if he ever was in the first place). Pierce ripped him a new one in the ECF.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Cman on September 06, 2012, 02:39:42 PM
I'd rather have Quis back. Barnes p---ed me off in the ECF in 2010. He tried constantly to get under KG's skin.

  Wouldn't you like to see him do that to James and Wade?

Absolutely.

I like Barnes, pls come aboard!
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: MJohnnyboy on September 06, 2012, 02:40:37 PM
I don't care for Barnes. Would rather have Daniels back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lftX-W_Bkdk

My point exactly. Never liked him.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Who on September 06, 2012, 02:57:47 PM
Matt Barnes would be a great signing for a third string SF.

I am kind of shocked he'd consider coming here though with Paul Pierce and Jeff Green already in place at his position. He should find himself a better home. Barnes should go somewhere where he can still play regular minutes.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: CelticG1 on September 06, 2012, 03:02:31 PM
Id love it for several reasons.

He is a great rebounder to which im surprised people wouldn't be more excited about considering that's a daily topic on here
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: CelticSooner on September 06, 2012, 03:03:09 PM
Matt Barnes would be a great signing for a third string SF.

I am kind of shocked he'd consider coming here though with Paul Pierce and Jeff Green already in place at his position. He should find himself a better home. Barnes should go somewhere where he can still play regular minutes.

He'll never find that place because he's not any good anymore.

I thought they were saving the BAE for a potential big.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: j804 on September 06, 2012, 03:03:16 PM
Matt Barnes would be a great signing for a third string SF.

I am kind of shocked he'd consider coming here though with Paul Pierce and Jeff Green already in place at his position. He should find himself a better home. Barnes should go somewhere where he can still play regular minutes.
maybe because nobody wants him
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Who on September 06, 2012, 03:09:10 PM
Matt Barnes would be a great signing for a third string SF.

I am kind of shocked he'd consider coming here though with Paul Pierce and Jeff Green already in place at his position. He should find himself a better home. Barnes should go somewhere where he can still play regular minutes.
maybe because nobody wants him
I don't understand why nobody would want Matt Barnes. He played well for the Lakers. Solid backup SF.

I am really surprised by how little attention he has been getting this summer.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Chris on September 06, 2012, 03:12:24 PM
Matt Barnes would be a great signing for a third string SF.

I am kind of shocked he'd consider coming here though with Paul Pierce and Jeff Green already in place at his position. He should find himself a better home. Barnes should go somewhere where he can still play regular minutes.

I am surprised too...but then again, this is what has been happening the last few years.  More and more of these veterans are getting squeezed for money and roster spots.  And when they know they are just getting the minimum, they would rather fight for minutes on a contender, than risk getting benched on a terrible team, so they can get their young guys more minutes.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: wdleehi on September 06, 2012, 03:20:13 PM
I don't want Barnes on this team.  He has always been overrated.  Can't stands him. 
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Galeto on September 06, 2012, 03:29:59 PM
I don't think he's good enough to make up for my extreme dislike for him, but that's just me.  I think his defense is pretty overrated and he's a below-average three point shooter, but he still accrues value as a role player through a lot of hustle.  Against good teams though, the lack of an above average skill besides rebounding makes him a bit iffy.

I didn't know before checking his stats but he's a great rebounder for a SF.  His total rebounding percentage has been in the 12-13 range which is outstanding.  He's hauled in a much higher percentage of boards playing SF than Green has playing PF.  His biggest effect might be helping on the boards.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Vermont Green on September 06, 2012, 03:39:39 PM
First, not sure I buy this but it is certainly possible.

We are so close to the luxury tax limit (which would mean we lose the BAE I think) that even a minimum contract could put us over.  If we can sign him for the vet min (he gets $1.3M, cap hit is only $854k), and stay under the tax limit, why not.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: the_Bird on September 06, 2012, 03:45:01 PM
First, not sure I buy this but it is certainly possible.

We are so close to the luxury tax limit (which would mean we lose the BAE I think) that even a minimum contract could put us over.  If we can sign him for the vet min (he gets $1.3M, cap hit is only $854k), and stay under the tax limit, why not.

We're over the luxury tax limit.  The question is whether we end up over the luxury-tax "apron" (which I think is ~$4M more than the luxury tax line).  Luxury-tax line is ~$70M, the "apron" is ~$74M.  The apron effectively acts as a hard cap for us, because going over that means we only have the $3M MLE to spend (not the $5M)...  and we already spent that on JET Terry.

My understanding of the numbers is that we've got room to spend on one more minimum contract, or maybe the BAE (but it gets a little close if we spend the BAE). 

People smarter than me; do I have that right, more-or-less?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Andrew Celtic Nation on September 06, 2012, 03:49:26 PM
Rooting for Matt Barnes is just something I can't do.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on September 06, 2012, 03:50:15 PM
I would not mind Matt Barnes - at all.

At the very least, he'd add more toughness to this team.

Who on our team now provides that?

Every team needs one - that Tough Guy...the one who is in the game solely to stir things up - Matt Barnes is that guy.

I could care less who he played for....I would not mind him in Celtics Green - at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11glryBr8o4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKYMiaTnbNg

That first vid is why we NEED MATT - I think the last Celtic we had that gave THOSE kinds of fouls was none other than James Posey.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: blastoidesroidsnoids on September 06, 2012, 03:55:42 PM
ya this is the kind of Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. we need not being sarcastic
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Prof. Clutch on September 06, 2012, 03:57:07 PM
I'd rather give an un-tested Christmas/Joseph a spot on the roster over Barnes where we already know what we'll get.  I just don't think he'll contribute anything positive whereas with Christmas/Joseph you just never know what will happen.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: MJohnnyboy on September 06, 2012, 04:14:39 PM
I would not mind Matt Barnes - at all.

At the very least, he'd add more toughness to this team.

Who on our team now provides that?

Every team needs one - that Tough Guy...the one who is in the game solely to stir things up - Matt Barnes is that guy.

I could care less who he played for....I would not mind him in Celtics Green - at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11glryBr8o4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKYMiaTnbNg

That first vid is why we NEED MATT - I think the last Celtic we had that gave THOSE kinds of fouls was none other than James Posey.

You haven't watched Jason Collins much have you?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on September 06, 2012, 04:18:50 PM
Quote
You haven't watched Jason Collins much have you?

Yeah, but I doubt we'd see the lumbering Jason Collins trying to chase down a Corey Brewer, right?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: alley oop on September 06, 2012, 04:21:15 PM
I don't care for Barnes. Would rather have Daniels back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lftX-W_Bkdk

In fairness to Barnes in that clip, Pierce pushed him first. Of course that could have been a consequence of things that took place between them earlier; can't know from the clip.
 
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: MJohnnyboy on September 06, 2012, 04:27:04 PM
Quote
You haven't watched Jason Collins much have you?

Yeah, but I doubt we'd see the lumbering Jason Collins trying to chase down a Corey Brewer, right?

No, but if I wanted someone to be here just to bring hard fouls, I'd just bring back Posey.

Point is, Collins also has some nastiness to his game and he will definitely bring some hard fouls. Maybe not on a fast-break, but the man doesn't mind committing fouls that make his opponents think, "Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. was THAT for?!"
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on September 06, 2012, 04:29:46 PM
Plus, the guy can play SG and SF..and a bit of PF, too.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11LAL9.HTM

Had a PER of 18.5 at SG..15.0 at SF.

You couldn't go wrong with that as a 3rd string....perhaps even 2nd string depending upon lineups.

If he agreed to the vet min and whatever role that Doc had for him?

Bring him in!
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: MJohnnyboy on September 06, 2012, 04:33:33 PM
POSSIBLE UPDATE: Matt Barnes' latest tweet says the following:

"Maaaaan y'all gonna be mad when you hear this"

I assume that a good chunk of his followers are Lakers fans, and what would p--- them off more than hearing that one of the Laker faithful went to the Green?

It's not a surety that this means he's signing with the C's, but it's too much of a coincidence that he would put out that tweet just a day after it was reported that the Celtics were interested in him.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on September 06, 2012, 04:35:55 PM
Quote
You haven't watched Jason Collins much have you?

Yeah, but I doubt we'd see the lumbering Jason Collins trying to chase down a Corey Brewer, right?

No, but if I wanted someone to be here just to bring hard fouls, I'd just bring back Posey.

Point is, Collins also has some nastiness to his game and he will definitely bring some hard fouls. Maybe not on a fast-break, but the man doesn't mind committing fouls that make his opponents think, "**** was THAT for?!"

...then with Matt Barnes, we'd have TWO guys off the bench to stir things up.

Barnes = Posey.
Collins = PJ Brown.

And we all know that Posey is perhaps done..he will be 36 next year.

Matt Barnes still has some effective PT left in him, at 32 years of age.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: MJohnnyboy on September 06, 2012, 04:40:44 PM
I know what I said earlier about Barnes, but I've warmed up to the idea of him being a third-stringer. He's good for insurance, and though I'd like to have Peaches because frankly, I think he's better than Barnes at this point in both their careers, I'd rather take Barnes if Peaches is serious about not coming back for the min. I also would prefer Quisy mainly because he's a guy who can play the failsafe role and perform whenever his name is called, not to mention he's had three years experience with the team, but if the Celtics think Barnes could do better, then that's fine by me.

If the Celtics think Barnes could fit in, then I'm fine with adding him. As long as he's using his antics against the opposition and not the C's.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: MJohnnyboy on September 06, 2012, 04:42:42 PM
Quote
You haven't watched Jason Collins much have you?

Yeah, but I doubt we'd see the lumbering Jason Collins trying to chase down a Corey Brewer, right?

No, but if I wanted someone to be here just to bring hard fouls, I'd just bring back Posey.

Point is, Collins also has some nastiness to his game and he will definitely bring some hard fouls. Maybe not on a fast-break, but the man doesn't mind committing fouls that make his opponents think, "**** was THAT for?!"

...then with Matt Barnes, we'd have TWO guys off the bench to stir things up.

Barnes = Posey.
Collins = PJ Brown.

And we all know that Posey is perhaps done..he will be 36 next year.

Matt Barnes still has some effective PT left in him, at 32 years of age.

I've warmed up to him being the 3rd-string wing. You're right. I'm just saying Collins has the same nastiness too.

And I was joking about Posey :).
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on September 06, 2012, 04:52:06 PM
Quote
You haven't watched Jason Collins much have you?

Yeah, but I doubt we'd see the lumbering Jason Collins trying to chase down a Corey Brewer, right?

No, but if I wanted someone to be here just to bring hard fouls, I'd just bring back Posey.

Point is, Collins also has some nastiness to his game and he will definitely bring some hard fouls. Maybe not on a fast-break, but the man doesn't mind committing fouls that make his opponents think, "**** was THAT for?!"

...then with Matt Barnes, we'd have TWO guys off the bench to stir things up.

Barnes = Posey.
Collins = PJ Brown.

And we all know that Posey is perhaps done..he will be 36 next year.

Matt Barnes still has some effective PT left in him, at 32 years of age.

I've warmed up to him being the 3rd-string wing. You're right. I'm just saying Collins has the same nastiness too.

And I was joking about Posey :).

lol..yeah..I just checked Pose's basketball-reference stats, and he's certainly done.
Title: Matt Barnes Signing With Celtics?
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on September 06, 2012, 04:52:45 PM
http://www.celticslife.com/2012/09/matt-barnes-headed-to-boston.html
Title: Re: Matt Barnes Signing With Celtics?
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on September 06, 2012, 04:53:32 PM
Nvm i just saw another thread like this already delete this mods!
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on September 06, 2012, 05:00:39 PM
iont want dis El Debarge lookin clown here takin up Christmas minutes I aint a fan of Barnes at all
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Boris Badenov on September 06, 2012, 05:05:26 PM
He's a pretty good fit in a small lineup, covering Lebron at PF.

He's also a very good rebounder for his position.

His numbers last year didn't suggest any decline in his skills.

He's a scrapper.

I don't see a lot of downside.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on September 06, 2012, 05:16:24 PM
He's a pretty good fit in a small lineup, covering Lebron at PF.

He's also a very good rebounder for his position.

His numbers last year didn't suggest any decline in his skills.

He's a scrapper.

I don't see a lot of downside.

His attitude is the only real downside. However of course he can use that attitude against opponents and not the celtics. I don't see any problem with that.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: gotjoker? on September 06, 2012, 05:17:10 PM
Ugh.  I don't want any part of Matt Barnes.  Haven't we been down this road with him before?



Quote
Two league sources contacted Thursday evening said the C's aren't expected to sign the 6-foot-7 wing player, whose addition would fill the void left by Tony Allen, who recently signed a three-year, $10 million deal with Memphis. Dallas, the Los Angeles Lakers and Miami are considered Barnes' top three teams now.

"I will let my fans know where I'm going to sign," Barnes wrote on his Twitter page on Thursday. "Its (sp) gonna SURPRISE you!!!! Keep it locked."

Following Boston knocking off the Orlando Magic in the Eastern Conference finals, Barnes told CSNNE.com that he would not be opposed to signing with Boston.

"My first choice is to work something out here in Orlando," Barnes said at the time. "That's my preference above anything else. But if that doesn't happen, I'll look and see what else is out there. But like I said, I want to try and work something out here in Orlando before I consider talking with any other team."

http://www.necn.com/07/15/10/Celtics-unlikely-to-land-Matt-Barnes/v1_landing_celtics.html?blockID=271956&feedID=3352
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Trifecta on September 06, 2012, 05:23:47 PM
Low-risk high-reward signing.. I like it. Make it happen. Unless of course a decent big becomes available all of a sudden..
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: twistedrico14 on September 06, 2012, 05:24:00 PM
I can't believe someone said that Kris Joseph doesn't have a future in Boston. You haven't even seen him play yet. Are you basing this on a few summer league games???
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on September 06, 2012, 05:25:23 PM
I think he will be a Celtic, him going to any other team won't shock anyone and his tweet suggests it will be shocking. If he goes to Mia, no one will be shocked b/c everyone probably has tried to latch on there since they formed that team and they aren't a real faker rival yet. Any other team wouldn't be worth mentioning...
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: MJohnnyboy on September 06, 2012, 05:27:30 PM
I guess at this point all I'm wondering is where is this interview that this source speaks of.

And I guess what's a little troubling is Matt Barnes hasn't really shown up for the playoffs for quite come time.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: guava_wrench on September 06, 2012, 05:36:33 PM
No brainer if it is for the vet min.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Jon on September 06, 2012, 05:37:28 PM
I can't believe someone said that Kris Joseph doesn't have a future in Boston. You haven't even seen him play yet. Are you basing this on a few summer league games???

I think this might be more based on the potential signing of Barnes:

Rondo/Terry/Dooling
Bradley/Lee
Pierce/Green
Bass/Sully
KG/Wilcox/Collins/Melo

That's 13 right there. 

If you add Barnes to the mix, then either Christmas or Joseph isn't going to make it. 

And I agree with the above post: very solid move for the minimum. 
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Change on September 06, 2012, 06:23:31 PM
god no. It would be slap in the face to Christmas, and Joseph if Celtics sign that Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline..
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: anthony83 on September 06, 2012, 06:28:24 PM
C´s need a center, KG is the only big man in the roster, because with Collins not enough.

 I would sign Birdman.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: More Banners on September 06, 2012, 06:33:03 PM
Completely unnecessary, in fact quite likely to prove a bad idea.

Behind solid rotation depth, better to have solid young guys with upside to send to Maine to develop if necessary and play bench minutes in stretches where starters rest or are injured. 

I'd rather build something to root for on the side than have unnecessary and controvertial vets with big egos and marginal talents trying to hang on to contenders-only to validate their oversized sense of their own value and importance.

Give me Joseph and Christmas over Barnes and his like.

EDIT:  Both players look like the Kevin Gamble-types, guys that develop a bit to have very good overall games and become solid rotation guys for short money off the bench and fit in perfectly.  That is a thing to give up to sign anyone, and Barnes on the third string isn't a greater asset than Joseph and Christmas.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: MJohnnyboy on September 06, 2012, 06:33:30 PM
god no. It would be slap in the face to Christmas, and Joseph if Celtics sign that ****.

Yeah. How DARE the Celtics think a 9 year veteran could be a more valuable option than two unproven rookies!
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on September 06, 2012, 06:55:20 PM
god no. It would be slap in the face to Christmas, and Joseph if Celtics sign that ****.

Yeah. How DARE the Celtics think a 9 year veteran could be a more valuable option than two unproven rookies!

I see what you did there  :D
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: snively on September 06, 2012, 06:56:11 PM
It would be very nice to have such an excellent rebounder on the team.  More enticing than keeping 2 of Smith/Christmas/Joseph. 

Definitely an irritating player, but his skillset is in short supply on this team.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: apc on September 06, 2012, 06:59:56 PM
for a third string player i rather have a rookie with potential.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: pearljammer10 on September 06, 2012, 07:23:44 PM
No brainer if it is for the vet min.

Absolutely. I think this would be an incredible move for the C's. More than Plenty of depth which allows us to look at all out assets at the trade deadline and possibly try to make a big splash for a big name on the market.

Rondo/Terry/Dooling
Bradley/Lee
Pierce/Green/Barnes
Bass/Sully
KG/Wilcox/Collins

plus Melo and Joseph?

Wowzers.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: pearljammer10 on September 06, 2012, 07:25:59 PM
I'd rather have Quis back. Barnes p---ed me off in the ECF in 2010. He tried constantly to get under KG's skin.

  Wouldn't you like to see him do that to James and Wade?


Exactly the type of player I want doing that to the opposing team.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: gar on September 06, 2012, 08:19:01 PM
I don't want Barnes on this team.  He has always been overrated.  Can't stands him.

Ditto. He is a no talent punk.

Luckily he will be looking for more minutes than we can give him. Garnet and Pierce would not be pleased.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: SHAQATTACK on September 06, 2012, 09:00:32 PM
He blew up the suck o meter.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: indeedproceed on September 06, 2012, 09:16:38 PM
Gimme 2008 Barnes, and I don't think you could ask for a better guy to sop up minutes behind pierce.

Now he's gonna take minutes from Green at the 3 (Green's best position), and he'll take minutes from Sully at the 4 so Green can get his there, which is the worst place Green could conceivably play.

Pass.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Fafnir on September 06, 2012, 09:23:42 PM
Solid depth at the SF position if he were to come here.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: 2short on September 06, 2012, 09:35:31 PM
Completely unnecessary, in fact quite likely to prove a bad idea.

Behind solid rotation depth, better to have solid young guys with upside to send to Maine to develop if necessary and play bench minutes in stretches where starters rest or are injured. 

I'd rather build something to root for on the side than have unnecessary and controvertial vets with big egos and marginal talents trying to hang on to contenders-only to validate their oversized sense of their own value and importance.

Give me Joseph and Christmas over Barnes and his like.

EDIT:  Both players look like the Kevin Gamble-types, guys that develop a bit to have very good overall games and become solid rotation guys for short money off the bench and fit in perfectly.  That is a thing to give up to sign anyone, and Barnes on the third string isn't a greater asset than Joseph and Christmas.
Tp
Third string 5 10 minutes give those minutes to Joseph and develope him for future or trade
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: billysan on September 06, 2012, 09:57:47 PM
Give him a camp invite without a guaranteed contract. If it's not good enough for him then ??? Who cares? If he shows up and plays well enough to make the team ???

Okay then, he takes a job because he is the better player. If this guy has anything left, he can go out and show it by earning a roster spot somewhere just like anyone else. As long as he is a good teammate I could care less about his reputation. I truly love what I have seen of Dionte Christmas and Kris Joseph so far, but this is the reality of the NBA.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: raynman on September 06, 2012, 10:46:02 PM
I thought it was HARRISON Barnes! But Matt? No way! I'd rather keep Joseph..
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: ManUp on September 06, 2012, 11:36:45 PM
Quality role player. He'd be another guy deserving of minutes stuck in a number crunch if he comes here. All these players would be a little bit excessive for just insurance or depth. If this happens, I'll be convinced Danny is plotting on something this trade deadline.
Title: Finally an enforcer
Post by: Ogaju on September 06, 2012, 11:40:13 PM
we have played the last four years without an enforcer. It is absolutely what we need. An enforcer off the bench
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on September 07, 2012, 12:06:32 AM
I don't get how people keep saying we have too many of a certain position.

I think we have enough centers, but I would love for us to get as many quality players of any position as we can!

The ONE huge reason there hasn't been a championship for this team since 08 has been injuries to KEY players... now why would we not try and get as many ACTUAL PROVEN players to be "insurance" as we can? If KG goes down (God forbid), yeah we probably have no chance at a chip BUT Collins is a proven player that could step in and perform as the starter right away (I mean, Horford went down EARLY and they were still winning with Collins and had a better record than we did)! After Collins, we have Wilcox... not great but a solid backup! RR goes down (GF) we have Dools, Jet, and AB. If AB goes down... er SINCE AB is down, we have... JET, LEE, and Dools (PP if need be). If Bass goes down we have... KG, Wilcox, Green, and Sully. If PP goes down (again, GF), Jeff can step in (maybe Lee but YIKES), but who after him? Barnes could be that guy...
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: blink on September 07, 2012, 01:46:57 AM
I agree with this.  Based on what I saw of him last year, especially in the playoffs, Barnes is done.  Plus he isn't going to be getting any sig minutes unless something bad happens to PP and Green.  I am just not a fan of his game either way.

Gimme 2008 Barnes, and I don't think you could ask for a better guy to sop up minutes behind pierce.

Now he's gonna take minutes from Green at the 3 (Green's best position), and he'll take minutes from Sully at the 4 so Green can get his there, which is the worst place Green could conceivably play.

Pass.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Roy H. on September 07, 2012, 04:56:18 AM
Gimme 2008 Barnes, and I don't think you could ask for a better guy to sop up minutes behind pierce.

Now he's gonna take minutes from Green at the 3 (Green's best position), and he'll take minutes from Sully at the 4 so Green can get his there, which is the worst place Green could conceivably play.

Pass.

I'm not sure that Doc would force feed Barnes minutes at the expense of Green.  Rather, I would see Barnes (or any veteran wing we brought in) as essentially occupying the 12th to 15th position on the roster.  He'd play the role of Marquis or Sasha, essentially a "break glass in case of emergency" type of deal.

If Pierce or Green goes down for a couple of weeks, we don't really have a veteran third-string SF to fill in right now.  We'd be asking a rookie to step in.  If Danny decides that he wants more of a sure thing, I respect that.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: fitzhickey on September 07, 2012, 07:06:29 AM
Kg wouldn't be happy
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: P2 on September 07, 2012, 08:20:04 AM
I'd rather have Quis back. Barnes p---ed me off in the ECF in 2010. He tried constantly to get under KG's skin.

Exactly. I don't want this scrub on our team.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Rondo2287 on September 07, 2012, 08:57:38 AM
I'd rather have Quis back. Barnes p---ed me off in the ECF in 2010. He tried constantly to get under KG's skin.

Exactly. I don't want this scrub on our team.

I think thats exactly why we need him on the team.  Say what you want about them, but having a front court of Sheed, Perk, and KG brough a swagger to this team.  It was almost like having the "Bash Brothers" in mighty ducks.

This team could use a little bit of the nastiness again
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: CelticG1 on September 07, 2012, 09:14:44 AM
Didn't Pietrus head butt KG the year before he came?

Not liking a player for his personality, getting into it with one of our players, punching one of our players in the face, throwing one of our players into a coach etc is not a reason to not pick him up.

Also Barnes would not take minutes away from anyone. He'd be an insurance policy. Do you think if we signed Pietrus he'd take minutes away from Green? Is dooling taking minutes away from anyone?

If we are going to add 12-15th guy might as well get the best one out there instead of some crappy person cause your scared he will take minutes away from green or pierce or whoever
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Chris on September 07, 2012, 09:29:35 AM
I have no problem cheering for a guy like Barnes.  They are the type of guys you hate to play against, but love to have on your own team.

My concerns are that 1. I never felt he was as good as other people suggested and 2. He is older now, and just may not have a whole lot left to give.

I also still question whether he would actually come to Boston.  Regardless of the battle for minutes and lack of money, I just always took him for someone who preferred the warm weather teams.
 
But, if he can still play, he does give a veteran presence and toughness, that is very nice to have deep on the bench.  He is not someone I would feel that comfortable relying on, but as a third stringer, it is hard to do much better.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on September 07, 2012, 09:39:06 AM
I would rather hav Kris Joseph than today's Matt Barnes.   

Joseph is younger, has better size, also a two way player and we already have depth on th 3 spot with Jeff Green. Joseph has shown good stuff and we could have him in the system and he will be ready and called up.

I don't mind Barnes at all, but if they will have to cut Joseph to get him, no thanks.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Chris on September 07, 2012, 09:46:27 AM
I would rather hav Kris Joseph than today's Matt Barnes.   

Joseph is younger, has better size, also a two way player and we already have depth on th 3 spot with Jeff Green. Joseph has shown good stuff and we could have him in the system and he will be ready and called up.

I don't mind Barnes at all, but if they will have to cut Joseph to get him, no thanks.

I don't think Joseph would be cut.  It would more likely be Christmas, unless he killed it in training camp.

Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: CelticG1 on September 07, 2012, 09:50:57 AM
I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

You can pretty much conclude right now that he will not see the floor regardless of the injury situation. If green or Pierce go down we will just go very small and have Lee probably play there or get creative some other way. Joseph, I feel I can say with complete confidence would not step on the court during the playoffs. At least with Barnes you have a veteran presence who can rebound, defend and hit the occasional 3. He's not that old either and im not saying he would get those minutes at the 3 but he allows you to be more flexible in the playoffs if there is an injury or foul trouble where I just don't say Doc throwing joseph out there even if he were to dress
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: indeedproceed on September 07, 2012, 11:17:27 AM
I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

Celtics' second round choices since Ainge:

Justin Reed
Ryan Gomes - still in league
Orien Greene
Gabe Pruitt
Semih Erden - still in league
Lester Hudson - Played last season
Luke Harangody - still in league
E'twan Moore - just signed a new contract
Kris Joseph

So actually its a 55% chance they play some significant time in the NBA.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Rondo2287 on September 07, 2012, 11:21:13 AM
I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

Celtics' second round choices since Ainge:

Justin Reed
Ryan Gomes - still in league
Orien Greene
Gabe Pruitt
Semih Erden - still in league
Lester Hudson - Played last season
Luke Harangody - still in league
E'twan Moore - just signed a new contract
Kris Joseph

So actually its a 55% chance they play some significant time in the NBA.

What about BBD and Powe
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: CelticG1 on September 07, 2012, 11:33:05 AM
I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

Celtics' second round choices since Ainge:

Justin Reed
Ryan Gomes - still in league
Orien Greene
Gabe Pruitt
Semih Erden - still in league
Lester Hudson - Played last season
Luke Harangody - still in league
E'twan Moore - just signed a new contract
Kris Joseph

So actually its a 55% chance they play some significant time in the NBA.

So hitting the lottery equates to Luke harangody and Semih? Dear lord haha.

I will admit bbd was good pick up but even he didn't play 1 min (well maybe a couple) other than game 6 vs lakers.

Just funny you rattled off a bunch if crappy guys who maybe at best will reach Barnes level which isn't all that high anyway
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: gpap on September 07, 2012, 11:51:44 AM
It be a good pick up. Barnes is a tough player.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: indeedproceed on September 07, 2012, 11:57:54 AM
I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

Celtics' second round choices since Ainge:

Justin Reed
Ryan Gomes - still in league
Orien Greene
Gabe Pruitt
Semih Erden - still in league
Lester Hudson - Played last season
Luke Harangody - still in league
E'twan Moore - just signed a new contract
Kris Joseph

So actually its a 55% chance they play some significant time in the NBA.

What about BBD and Powe

Guys I dumbly forgot.

So hitting the lottery equates to Luke harangody and Semih? Dear lord haha.

No, you said the percentages were stacked against him being a average player one day. I was showing that the averages were actually in his favor that he'd have at least an average NBA career.

Quote
I will admit bbd was good pick up but even he didn't play 1 min (well maybe a couple) other than game 6 vs lakers.

Just funny you rattled off a bunch if crappy guys who maybe at best will reach Barnes level which isn't all that high anyway

I was just saying that 2nd round players turning into 3rd string contributors is pretty common, and considerably cheaper.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: the_Bird on September 07, 2012, 12:06:24 PM
I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

Celtics' second round choices since Ainge:

Justin Reed
Ryan Gomes - still in league
Orien Greene
Gabe Pruitt
Semih Erden - still in league
Lester Hudson - Played last season
Luke Harangody - still in league
E'twan Moore - just signed a new contract
Kris Joseph

So actually its a 55% chance they play some significant time in the NBA.

What about BBD and Powe

Guys I dumbly forgot.

So hitting the lottery equates to Luke harangody and Semih? Dear lord haha.

No, you said the percentages were stacked against him being a average player one day. I was showing that the averages were actually in his favor that he'd have at least an average NBA career.

Quote
I will admit bbd was good pick up but even he didn't play 1 min (well maybe a couple) other than game 6 vs lakers.

Just funny you rattled off a bunch if crappy guys who maybe at best will reach Barnes level which isn't all that high anyway

I was just saying that 2nd round players turning into 3rd string contributors is pretty common, and considerably cheaper.

Billy Walker should be on the list, too, not that his presence really changes anything.

Based on this analysis we're talking about Kris Joseph - in the best-case scenario - ultimately developing into a below-average, easily replaceable player.  Danny's second rounders have been much better than most second rounders, but we aren't talking about building blocks here.  If Kris Joseph (and/or Dionte Christmas) don't make the roster because Danny decides he'd rather have a guy like Barnes stashed on the bench, I'm not going to lose one lick of sleep over that.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: snively on September 07, 2012, 12:21:54 PM
I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

Celtics' second round choices since Ainge:

Justin Reed
Ryan Gomes - still in league
Orien Greene
Gabe Pruitt
Semih Erden - still in league
Lester Hudson - Played last season
Luke Harangody - still in league
E'twan Moore - just signed a new contract
Kris Joseph

So actually its a 55% chance they play some significant time in the NBA.

What about BBD and Powe

Guys I dumbly forgot.

So hitting the lottery equates to Luke harangody and Semih? Dear lord haha.

No, you said the percentages were stacked against him being a average player one day. I was showing that the averages were actually in his favor that he'd have at least an average NBA career.

Quote
I will admit bbd was good pick up but even he didn't play 1 min (well maybe a couple) other than game 6 vs lakers.

Just funny you rattled off a bunch if crappy guys who maybe at best will reach Barnes level which isn't all that high anyway

I was just saying that 2nd round players turning into 3rd string contributors is pretty common, and considerably cheaper.

Cheaper than what? Signing a guy to the vet min?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: kozlodoev on September 07, 2012, 12:28:26 PM
I'm not even sure I'd want the version of Matt Barnes from 5 years ago. In his prime, he was mediocre in everything (except hacking at people), and didn't have a real position. Please stay away.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: CelticG1 on September 07, 2012, 12:47:38 PM
I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

Celtics' second round choices since Ainge:

Justin Reed
Ryan Gomes - still in league
Orien Greene
Gabe Pruitt
Semih Erden - still in league
Lester Hudson - Played last season
Luke Harangody - still in league
E'twan Moore - just signed a new contract
Kris Joseph

So actually its a 55% chance they play some significant time in the NBA.

What about BBD and Powe

Guys I dumbly forgot.

So hitting the lottery equates to Luke harangody and Semih? Dear lord haha.

No, you said the percentages were stacked against him being a average player one day. I was showing that the averages were actually in his favor that he'd have at least an average NBA career.

Quote
I will admit bbd was good pick up but even he didn't play 1 min (well maybe a couple) other than game 6 vs lakers.

Just funny you rattled off a bunch if crappy guys who maybe at best will reach Barnes level which isn't all that high anyway

I was just saying that 2nd round players turning into 3rd string contributors is pretty common, and considerably cheaper.

Every player you listed is below average though right?

We saw guys like daniels, dooling, Pietrus play in playoff games this year, who I consider mainly 3rd stringers. I don't see us throwing out an unproven rookie in those situations and we didn't. If you think its so common to get these 3rd stringer or average players than why does it matter if we keep joseph if we are just as likely to pick up that average player in the next draft?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: LooseCannon on September 07, 2012, 12:51:23 PM
I think I'd rather gamble on Christmas rather than Joseph if it is down to them for one roster spot.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Chris on September 07, 2012, 01:00:06 PM
I think I'd rather gamble on Christmas rather than Joseph if it is down to them for one roster spot.

I say let them battle it out in camp.  I am not all that confident that a guy like Christmas, who has been bouncing around out of the league the last few years, is going to be some revelation.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: hpantazo on September 07, 2012, 01:04:04 PM
I think I'd rather gamble on Christmas rather than Joseph if it is down to them for one roster spot.

I say let them battle it out in camp.  I am not all that confident that a guy like Christmas, who has been bouncing around out of the league the last few years, is going to be some revelation.

Jeremy Lin 2.0?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Chris on September 07, 2012, 01:15:28 PM
I think I'd rather gamble on Christmas rather than Joseph if it is down to them for one roster spot.

I say let them battle it out in camp.  I am not all that confident that a guy like Christmas, who has been bouncing around out of the league the last few years, is going to be some revelation.

Jeremy Lin 2.0?

I think its a very different situation.  Lin was buried on a couple rosters, but teams knew he had the talent.  Christmas just hasn't been that impressive.   
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: LooseCannon on September 07, 2012, 01:53:40 PM
You'd be better off comparing Christmas to Gary Neal, as a guy who went to Europe for a bit after failing to catch on with a team in the NBA.  Since he has had a few extra years to mature, I would guess that he has a better chance of contributing than Joseph.  Wages of Win, whose work I love, suggests Christmas has the ability to be a hidden gem, based on his performance in Europe.

I like being willing to gamble with a guy like Christmas over the sort of declining "proven veteran" available for the minimum who might be considered for a third-string wing position on the bench.

One thing that gives Christmas the edge over Joseph is that his contract contains a partial guarantee.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: RyNye on September 07, 2012, 01:55:54 PM
I think its a very different situation.  Lin was buried on a couple rosters, but teams knew he had the talent.  Christmas just hasn't been that impressive.   

Actually, the situations are almost exactly the same. Both Lin and Christmas have been consistently statistically above average or very good, but since they don't "look" good, they don't get the roster spots. Even in this era of statistical analysis and Chris Broussard, 90% of the decisions made by scouts and GMs and coaches is based off of the eye test, which is very inconsistent and unreliable. If you look at their numbers, both Lin and Christmas were always very efficient and good players. Lin just got lucky by ending up on a team that was desperate for a point guard - the Knicks had no idea he would be as good as he was. Hopefully, the Celtics will take a chance with Christmas - he has real talent.

The moral of the story is that you can't just rely on the eye test to judge talent. Humans are too biased and inconsistent.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: hpantazo on September 07, 2012, 02:00:01 PM
I think its a very different situation.  Lin was buried on a couple rosters, but teams knew he had the talent.  Christmas just hasn't been that impressive.   

Actually, the situations are almost exactly the same. Both Lin and Christmas have been consistently statistically above average or very good, but since they don't "look" good, they don't get the roster spots. Even in this era of statistical analysis and Chris Broussard, 90% of the decisions made by scouts and GMs and coaches is based off of the eye test, which is very inconsistent and unreliable. If you look at their numbers, both Lin and Christmas were always very efficient and good players. Lin just got lucky by ending up on a team that was desperate for a point guard - the Knicks had no idea he would be as good as he was. Hopefully, the Celtics will take a chance with Christmas - he has real talent.

The moral of the story is that you can't just rely on the eye test to judge talent. Humans are too biased and inconsistent.

I agree, Lin was cut from a few teams that needed a player like him, and he was about to be cut from the knicks according to his coach until he exploded. The only reason he got a chance is because they had no one else to play pg at the moment and were desperate, not because they thought he had the talent.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: RyNye on September 07, 2012, 02:04:08 PM
I'm not even sure I'd want the version of Matt Barnes from 5 years ago. In his prime, he was mediocre in everything (except hacking at people), and didn't have a real position. Please stay away.

The numbers disagree with you.

Matt Barnes from 5 years ago (on the Golden State Warriors), wasn't a good scorer, but was a great passer and rebounder and an above average defender. Matt Barnes was terrible his first 4 years in the league, but if you look at his numbers, for 5 of the past 6 years he has been consistently above average (and improving).

Just from this last season:

His TS% was 55% (average is around 51 or 52). Not great at 3s, but great at 2s (52% at 2s, average is around 48). His PPS was above average at 1.27. Still a great rebounder (11.5 per 48 min, versus the average at his position of 7.5), good passer (4.2 assists per 48 min, versus average of 3.6), and twice as many blocks as the average for his playing time. He doesn't turn the ball over, though he isn't a great free throw shooter and fouls too much.

(BTW, I use the stats per 48 min because it is the only way you can reliably compare a players numbers. It is idiotic to look at someone's numbers without correcting for how much they play.)

So he's no superstar, but he is a solid role player. Heck, from the numbers he is better than many starters on the league's more mediocre teams, which is a good asset to have coming off the bench.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on September 07, 2012, 02:14:23 PM
I'm not even sure I'd want the version of Matt Barnes from 5 years ago. In his prime, he was mediocre in everything (except hacking at people), and didn't have a real position. Please stay away.

The numbers disagree with you.

Matt Barnes from 5 years ago (on the Golden State Warriors), wasn't a good scorer, but was a great passer and rebounder and an above average defender. Matt Barnes was terrible his first 4 years in the league, but if you look at his numbers, for 5 of the past 6 years he has been consistently above average (and improving).

Just from this last season:

His TS% was 55% (average is around 51 or 52). Not great at 3s, but great at 2s (52% at 2s, average is around 48). His PPS was above average at 1.27. Still a great rebounder (11.5 per 48 min, versus the average at his position of 7.5), good passer (4.2 assists per 48 min, versus average of 3.6), and twice as many blocks as the average for his playing time. He doesn't turn the ball over, though he isn't a great free throw shooter and fouls too much.

(BTW, I use the stats per 48 min because it is the only way you can reliably compare a players numbers. It is idiotic to look at someone's numbers without correcting for how much they play.)

So he's no superstar, but he is a solid role player. Heck, from the numbers he is better than many starters on the league's more mediocre teams, which is a good asset to have coming off the bench.

Now why would you go through the trouble to bring people stats like that? Don't you know he is a terrible player?? I mean he is HORRIBLE!

Seriously though, people mistake attitude with play must be, because he is a solid player!
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: BostonNative on September 07, 2012, 03:02:19 PM
boy he sure WAS a SOLID player. How many "solid" players do we need? Its time to focus on getting great players who can contribute in the long run. Idk who he once was what is Matt Barnes today?

Where will he fit? Are we getting rid of joseph to fit Barnes in? Id rather take my chance on a kid who has everything to prove than another old head who has already seen it all and just playing for the hell of it.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Celtics4ever on September 07, 2012, 04:58:49 PM
He plays chippy and sometimes those guys are nice to toss at a LeBron type.   Five experienced fouls and a guy willing to do some dirty deeds worth a look to see if he has anything left in the tank.   If not let him walk but if he does.....
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: vjcsmoke on September 07, 2012, 11:05:32 PM
I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

The problem with this generalization is that the Celtics and Danny Ainge have consistently gottent good value in the 2nd round, I mean look at Big Baby, Leon Powe, Ryan Gomes etc.  These guys were not superstars but they offered solid value for us when healthy.

Quote
You can pretty much conclude right now that he will not see the floor regardless of the injury situation. If green or Pierce go down we will just go very small and have Lee probably play there or get creative some other way. Joseph, I feel I can say with complete confidence would not step on the court during the playoffs. At least with Barnes you have a veteran presence who can rebound, defend and hit the occasional 3. He's not that old either and im not saying he would get those minutes at the 3 but he allows you to be more flexible in the playoffs if there is an injury or foul trouble where I just don't say Doc throwing joseph out there even if he were to dress

That being said, I see nothing wrong with letting Joseph develop with the Maine Redclaws where he will get more playing time and have a chance to be coached up.  When he is seen as ready to contribute with the 'big club' then he can be recalled as needed.  I'm sure injuries, especially on an older team, may strike and we can bring him up down the road when he is ready.

As far as Joseph's ability to step up.  He's a rookie, nobody expects that out of him right now.

I also like the idea of adding Barnes to the roster.  He's likely our 11-15th player, a 3rd string backup SF.  And he adds some rebounding and toughness to the roster.  Considering his role, I don't see us having much to lose at the vet min.  I don't see him worth a BAE though.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on September 07, 2012, 11:44:35 PM
boy he sure WAS a SOLID player. How many "solid" players do we need? Its time to focus on getting great players who can contribute in the long run. Idk who he once was what is Matt Barnes today?

Where will he fit? Are we getting rid of joseph to fit Barnes in? Id rather take my chance on a kid who has everything to prove than another old head who has already seen it all and just playing for the hell of it.

How is it that he "WAS" a solid player when someone just posted his stats from last season?

Seeing that he is known to be a good defender, I think he will fit in nicely with a DEFENSE FIRST team.

We need as many solid players as we can get because we don't have any money to do better!!!!! I'm guessing you think it's easy to put together a team full of stars? How many times have injuries derailed this team... what, like every season since 08? Prepare for the unexpected (or this pattern the Cs have been in with injuries)! We already have two rookies to get up to speed... sure we can have more (hopefully the 15 spot will go to KJ or Xmas), but why not get guys you know what they bring to the table already?

If there were more solid players behind PP then we could stand pat (maybe we still will)... there is ONLY Jeff Green (maybe, but not ideally, Lee)!

So, you would rather have an unproven rookie be the last line if PP and/or Jeff go down, in the playoffs, than an experienced winner (not just a bench warmer who went along for the ride like that guy in SL that has two rings)? A second rounder at that?!!

Barnes may not be anything to brag about but he is PROVEN (with quite a few years under his belt), to be a good NBA player!

I like rookies a lot (at least the ones we pick), I hope they get a chance, but you have to pass on someone if you have a chance to get a solid player instead!

With all that said, if Kris is as good as you think he is (I like him, think he has potential), then he can earn that last spot because Barnes would only be our 14th player. If he doesn't beat Xmas, that's on him, not b/c we got Barnes!

This Barnes stuff is all speculation and pulling things together that may have nothing to do with each other (the tweet)... so this may all be moot...

I go wild over any player we have LOL... I was still holding out hope for 3J (I <3 Moore)... doesn't mean I wasn't hoping we got CLee instead! I'm still sad about Quackity being shipped out but it was for the good of the team (hopefully)!
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: kozlodoev on September 08, 2012, 12:31:04 AM
I'm not even sure I'd want the version of Matt Barnes from 5 years ago. In his prime, he was mediocre in everything (except hacking at people), and didn't have a real position. Please stay away.

The numbers disagree with you.

Matt Barnes from 5 years ago (on the Golden State Warriors), wasn't a good scorer, but was a great passer and rebounder and an above average defender. Matt Barnes was terrible his first 4 years in the league, but if you look at his numbers, for 5 of the past 6 years he has been consistently above average (and improving).

Just from this last season:

His TS% was 55% (average is around 51 or 52). Not great at 3s, but great at 2s (52% at 2s, average is around 48). His PPS was above average at 1.27. Still a great rebounder (11.5 per 48 min, versus the average at his position of 7.5), good passer (4.2 assists per 48 min, versus average of 3.6), and twice as many blocks as the average for his playing time. He doesn't turn the ball over, though he isn't a great free throw shooter and fouls too much.

(BTW, I use the stats per 48 min because it is the only way you can reliably compare a players numbers. It is idiotic to look at someone's numbers without correcting for how much they play.)

So he's no superstar, but he is a solid role player. Heck, from the numbers he is better than many starters on the league's more mediocre teams, which is a good asset to have coming off the bench.
For a person who's asked to shoot threes and play perimeter defense, I'd say that rebounding rate and 2 pt shooting percentage is not the greatest resume.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: kozlodoev on September 08, 2012, 12:31:56 AM
He plays chippy and sometimes those guys are nice to toss at a LeBron type.   Five experienced fouls and a guy willing to do some dirty deeds worth a look to see if he has anything left in the tank.   If not let him walk but if he does.....
Five experienced fouls later and we've handed 10 points to the opposition on a platter. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: fitzhickey on September 08, 2012, 05:48:43 AM
No thanks
Seems like a dodgy bloke, and his personality is questionable at best.
Don't want him in green
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: chambers on September 08, 2012, 07:43:45 AM
I have no problem cheering for a guy like Barnes.  They are the type of guys you hate to play against, but love to have on your own team.

My concerns are that 1. I never felt he was as good as other people suggested and 2. He is older now, and just may not have a whole lot left to give.

I also still question whether he would actually come to Boston.  Regardless of the battle for minutes and lack of money, I just always took him for someone who preferred the warm weather teams.
 
But, if he can still play, he does give a veteran presence and toughness, that is very nice to have deep on the bench.  He is not someone I would feel that comfortable relying on, but as a third stringer, it is hard to do much better.

You're 100% right.
Just like KG, Barnes is the kinda guy you want on your team, causing havoc and punking people left and right-basically getting inside everybody's head and making them take their concentration away from the game at hand.

I also question whether he's got much left. How old is he now? What's his injury status?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Celtics4ever on September 08, 2012, 10:48:16 AM
Quote
Five experienced fouls later and we've handed 10 points to the opposition on a platter. Good luck with that.

Let's see he shoots .74% from the line in the playoffs and .65% during the conference finals for his career.   That is not ten points any way you look at it, Koz. 

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lebron_james/

Weird that his average dips ten points in the conference finals though.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Cman on September 08, 2012, 11:24:37 AM
seven pages on Matt Barnes, potentially the #15 player on the roster? yep, it's the offseason allright...
 :)
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 08, 2012, 02:45:31 PM
I am surprised that we are wondering if Matt Barnes has anything left when he averaged about 8 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2 assists, and about 1 block and 1 rebound in just over 20 minutes per games for the Lakers last year!!

That does NOT sound like a 15th man to me.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnema02.html

He had an 11.50 Efficiency Rating for the regular season.

12th-15th man??  I know that we all see through green glasses, but come on.  We are deep, but not NEARLY that deep!

Smitty77
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 08, 2012, 04:01:21 PM
Barnes had almost twice the regular season Efficiency Rating as did our vaunted Pietrus.  Pietrus was a 6.3 for the regular season.

As for Marquis, he was ranked 386th in the for the regular season at a 3.7 Efficiency Rating.

Before someone brings up Sasha, he was 406th in Efficiency Rating at 3.2:-))))

Smitty77

P.S.  We can all be more objective than is what is being shown in this thread for the most part.  Yes, I understand people hating Barnes' game from an opponent's viewpoint, but I beat his teammates LOVE him.  An appropriate analogy on this would be KG.  Not in terms of talent, but in terms of fiesty players that are despised by their opponents and fans from other teams.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: gar on September 08, 2012, 04:37:50 PM
Would love to see Joseph get a chance. He has way more upside and could be a solid roster player in the NBA.

Not sure why he is rated so low; have read all the scouting reports; but saw a different player in summer league.

More solid than Christmas; but like Christmas' defensive energy more than both Barnes and Joseph.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Boris Badenov on September 08, 2012, 05:53:25 PM
I am as hopeful for Kris Joseph as anyone.

Nonetheless, it may provide some perspective to look at this list, of every player picked 51st in the draft since 1989:

Jon Diebler
Magnum Rolle
Jack McClinton
Shan Foster
JamesOn Curry
Cheikh Samb
Robert Whaley
Christian Drejer
Kyle Korver
Marcus Taylor
Andre Hutson
Igor Rakocevic
Antwain Smith
Corey Brewer (Oklahoma, not Florida)
Dejuan Wheat
Chris Robinson
Dejan Bodiroga
Lawrence Funderburke
Spencer Dunkley
Tim Burroughs
Zan Tabak
Mike Morrison

All I have to say is "yikes."
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: CelticG1 on September 08, 2012, 06:29:24 PM
Can people stop talking about rookies and "upside"?

Everyone in the D-League has "upside". I have upside.

It's got to be the stupidest reason to give to keep someone. Every rookie has upside that's why he is a rookie. As pointed out our second round picks have pretty much turned out to be terrible NBA players if they have even made it to the league.

Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: CelticG1 on September 08, 2012, 06:35:13 PM
I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

The problem with this generalization is that the Celtics and Danny Ainge have consistently gottent good value in the 2nd round, I mean look at Big Baby, Leon Powe, Ryan Gomes etc.  These guys were not superstars but they offered solid value for us when healthy.

Quote
You can pretty much conclude right now that he will not see the floor regardless of the injury situation. If green or Pierce go down we will just go very small and have Lee probably play there or get creative some other way. Joseph, I feel I can say with complete confidence would not step on the court during the playoffs. At least with Barnes you have a veteran presence who can rebound, defend and hit the occasional 3. He's not that old either and im not saying he would get those minutes at the 3 but he allows you to be more flexible in the playoffs if there is an injury or foul trouble where I just don't say Doc throwing joseph out there even if he were to dress

That being said, I see nothing wrong with letting Joseph develop with the Maine Redclaws where he will get more playing time and have a chance to be coached up.  When he is seen as ready to contribute with the 'big club' then he can be recalled as needed.  I'm sure injuries, especially on an older team, may strike and we can bring him up down the road when he is ready.

As far as Joseph's ability to step up.  He's a rookie, nobody expects that out of him right now.

I also like the idea of adding Barnes to the roster.  He's likely our 11-15th player, a 3rd string backup SF.  And he adds some rebounding and toughness to the roster.  Considering his role, I don't see us having much to lose at the vet min.  I don't see him worth a BAE though.

I see what you are saying but still only Baby really turned out to be anything and people here don't even like his game. Powe isn't in the league anymore is he? Ryan Gomes showed some flashes but I'm pretty sure at this point he's going to be bouncing around from team to team if he stays in the league at the min.

I don't know Joseph but unless Danny, Doc etc. are extremely high on him I don't see the point of sending him to the D-league when we need to win now. We also have a decent balance of youth and veterans on this team now that it's not like we are risking much by dropping a second rounder for a proven veteran.

I don't want to sign him for the BAE but over the last few years I think he is a better vet min pick up than Quis, Pietrus, Sasha, Dooling, Wafer, Finley, etc.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: relja on September 08, 2012, 09:31:13 PM
I am as hopeful for Kris Joseph as anyone.

Nonetheless, it may provide some perspective to look at this list, of every player picked 51st in the draft since 1989:

Jon Diebler
Magnum Rolle
Jack McClinton
Shan Foster
JamesOn Curry
Cheikh Samb
Robert Whaley
Christian Drejer
Kyle Korver
Marcus Taylor
Andre Hutson
Igor Rakocevic
Antwain Smith
Corey Brewer (Oklahoma, not Florida)
Dejuan Wheat
Chris Robinson
Dejan Bodiroga
Lawrence Funderburke
Spencer Dunkley
Tim Burroughs
Zan Tabak
Mike Morrison

All I have to say is "yikes."

Rakocevic and Bodiroga and legends of Serbian basketball. Plus, Korver isn't half bad, although your argument doesn't say nothing.. Isaiah Thomas was selected 60th and he's really good. Anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEzmPKdqt4
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: bfrombleacher on September 08, 2012, 09:44:30 PM
I thought Kris Joseph was paid lower than the vet min? And that there's practically no reason to get rid of him as we have one roster spot left?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: crimson_stallion on September 08, 2012, 09:54:42 PM
No thanks...

We are already way too deep in the 6'1" - 6'8" category with:

* Rondo
* Dooling
* Terry
* Lee
* Bradley
* Pierce
* Green
* Joseph

Considering how stacked our backcourt is, we are already going to struggle to find minutes for everyone once Bradley comes back.  If we get injuries to Perce or Green, then Lee and Joseph can both play minutes at the SF spot.

I don't see the point in signing any other < 6'10 players unless:

1. They are versatile enough to play multiple positions
2. They are Ben Wallace

On paper Pietrus may be less 'efficient' then Barnes but he can play SG or SF equally well on both offense and defense, he is a good locker room guy, and he has the athleticism to run the break in what I think is going to be a high octane offense this season.

Same can be said for Marquis, who's a great locker room guy and as versatile as a swiss army knife.  Quis is a good ball handler, a smart decision maker on offence, a solid rebounder, a solid passer, and a capable scorer on dribble penetration and from midrange.  He can fill in at every position from PG to SF and he'll never complain abot minutes.

Barnes at this point is his career is purely a defensive presence and a distraction.  Like Pietrus he's an inconsistent shooter, but unlike Pietrus he's not athletic, not a good locker room presence, and not very capapble of playing the SG spot.

The only other guy I can think of that I'd like to see here is Tracy Mcgrady.  Like Quis' he can play every position from PG to SF.  He's got size, good handles, a nice passing game, he's a good rebouder for a SF and he's got a high basketball IQ.

Aside from these three guys, I'd be looking for another big (Birdman, Wallace, etc) with some toughness who's not afraid to bang around inside. 

Last season KG we often had to pull KG back in the game before he got the rest he needed because out bigs weren't able to protect the paint while he was out.  Melo has tons of potential and could be a surprise, but he's unproven and could just as easilly be a flop.  Collins is a mediocre rebounder, will struggle against quicker bigs like Amare and Bosh.  Wilcox and Sullinger are both question marks health wise, and neither is a natural Center.

I don't HATE the idea of signing Barnes because high energy hustle guys that play defense never go astray - but I think thre are others out there who would be more fitting.  Plus out track history with guys that have mental/maturity issues (Big Baby, Delonte, etc) has not been great.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Galeto on September 09, 2012, 12:31:59 AM
Quote
Yes, I understand people hating Barnes' game from an opponent's viewpoint, but I beat his teammates LOVE him.

Given that he rarely sticks with teams for very long despite being a solid role player, I think this is debatable. 

I really admire the guys who take charges (unless they're obsessed with missing as many jumpers as they can like Big Baby) and give a team an edge when they play on "my team."  Heck, I loved when Posey whacked a player after the whistle even though I shouldn't have.  With Barnes though, I feel like it's different.  There's a difference between wrapping up extra hard and firing balls at players or shoving them because you're angry at a perceived personal slight.  He riles up the opposition more than I think he gets his teammates going.  He's also not good enough defensively to back up his behavior.  He gets in the face of big time scorers and then they dice him up.  It's embarrassing.  A lot of his antics are overreactions and fake tough guy actions.  I can't believe his own teammates would respect that. 

When Posey or Kurt Thomas cross the line, they try to play it off innocently.  Barnes meanwhile calls attention to himself.

Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: alley oop on September 09, 2012, 06:35:28 AM
Barnes didn’t have a problem with Bynum’s thug act against Michael Beasley here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU7RiLERJ-Y
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Cman on September 09, 2012, 08:32:59 AM
I am surprised that we are wondering if Matt Barnes has anything left when he averaged about 8 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2 assists, and about 1 block and 1 rebound in just over 20 minutes per games for the Lakers last year!!

That does NOT sound like a 15th man to me.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnema02.html

He had an 11.50 Efficiency Rating for the regular season.

12th-15th man??  I know that we all see through green glasses, but come on.  We are deep, but not NEARLY that deep!

Smitty77

Okay, maybe by calling him #15 I was exaggerating.
But he would be #11, at best. Again, not something to get too excited about.

Don't get me wrong, I do prefer our #11 to be Barnes, not Kris Joseph. But I stand by my statement that this many pages on Matt Barnes is less about Matt Barnes and more about the doldrums of the off-season.
 :)
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: the_Bird on September 09, 2012, 09:36:23 AM
Signing Barnes wouldn't mean that Kris Joseph doesn't make the team, anyway; it would just mean that he'd have to beat out Dionte Christmas for the last roster spot.  If Joseph is ever going to contribute in the league, he ought to be able to do that. 
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 09, 2012, 10:47:54 AM
11th on our roster???

Here are the players that had a higher Efficiency Rating than Barnes in the regular season last year on our current roster:

Bass, KG, PP, RR, and Terry.  That is it!!!!

Bradley was a 7.0 for the entire season and we don't yet know how he will come back from his surgeries.

Jeff Green was around a 7 the year before last with us.

Courtney Lee was a 10.2 with Houston, a team NOT hardly as strong as the Lakers.

Wilcox was a 7.8 and we have no idea if he will approach that level again following his surgery.

BTW, Terry was only slightly better at 12.60 on a worse team in Dallas.

Smitty77

P.S. Why do we consistently overrate our own players on this board?:-)))
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Roy H. on September 09, 2012, 11:06:51 AM
11th on our roster???

Here are the players that had a higher Efficiency Rating than Barnes in the regular season last year on our current roster:

Bass, KG, PP, RR, and Terry.  That is it!!!!

Bradley was a 7.0 for the entire season and we don't yet know how he will come back from his surgeries.

Jeff Green was around a 7 the year before last with us.

Courtney Lee was a 10.2 with Houston, a team NOT hardly as strong as the Lakers.

Wilcox was a 7.8 and we have no idea if he will approach that level again following his surgery.

BTW, Terry was only slightly better at 12.60 on a worse team in Dallas.

Smitty77

P.S. Why do we consistently overrate our own players on this board?:-)))

Is Efficiency Rating the only valid method of evaluating a player?

What about age?  Defense?  Team needs?  Potential? 

I'll go with what my eyes tell me, rather than basing my opinion on a stat (and a made-up stat, at that).  I'll put Lee, Green, and Bradley ahead of Barnes any day, and for our team needs, Wilcox and Dooling are ahead of him, too.

Assuming you rate Barnes higher than Lee or Green, why do you think the latter two players were able to earn long-term contracts at significant money, while Barnes is hoping to be picked up for the minimum?

I wouldn't mind Barnes here, as I think he'd be a good third-stringer.  However, with our current roster, I don't think he's more than that.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 09, 2012, 12:07:40 PM
Roy,

You know I respect you a lot.  But, I strongly disagree with you here.  BTW, I never said that Efficiency Rating is "the only valid method of evaluating a player."  It is a useful tool that should not be discounted however.

We really do NOT know IF Jeff Green will have a better year than Matt Barnes.  We do KNOW that he will be vastly better paid though.  I think that most would agree that Matt is a better defender than Jeff.  We don't know how well Green will come back from his surgery.  He was less than overwhelming with us two years ago (although briefly).

This summary seems to paint Barnes as a very solid SF defender and as a fighter at the PF (just too weak).  He would be a huge asset versus the Heat in trying to at least guard LBJ on the perimeter and I think would do a fine job vs. Wade.  He is a proven defender, unlike the horrifically overpaid Jeff Green.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Matt-Barnes-1592/

And it is not like he is 36 or 37.

Smitty77
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Boris Badenov on September 09, 2012, 12:23:06 PM
I am as hopeful for Kris Joseph as anyone.

Nonetheless, it may provide some perspective to look at this list, of every player picked 51st in the draft since 1989:

Jon Diebler
Magnum Rolle
Jack McClinton
Shan Foster
JamesOn Curry
Cheikh Samb
Robert Whaley
Christian Drejer
Kyle Korver
Marcus Taylor
Andre Hutson
Igor Rakocevic
Antwain Smith
Corey Brewer (Oklahoma, not Florida)
Dejuan Wheat
Chris Robinson
Dejan Bodiroga
Lawrence Funderburke
Spencer Dunkley
Tim Burroughs
Zan Tabak
Mike Morrison

All I have to say is "yikes."

Rakocevic and Bodiroga and legends of Serbian basketball. Plus, Korver isn't half bad, although your argument doesn't say nothing.. Isaiah Thomas was selected 60th and he's really good. Anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEzmPKdqt4

Bodiroga was great, but he was only drafted so low because everyone knew that he was almost certainly never going to play in the NBA. And he didn't. So, that pick was a zero in terms of helping the team who drafted him.

My point was just that if you look at the history here, you'd predict that Joseph has almost no chance of ever making an NBA roster. Even the one guy who is a rotation player (Korver) is not any better than Barnes.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Cman on September 09, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Roy,

You know I respect you a lot.  But, I strongly disagree with you here.  BTW, I never said that Efficiency Rating is "the only valid method of evaluating a player."  It is a useful tool that should not be discounted however.

We really do NOT know IF Jeff Green will have a better year than Matt Barnes.  We do KNOW that he will be vastly better paid though.  I think that most would agree that Matt is a better defender than Jeff.  We don't know how well Green will come back from his surgery.  He was less than overwhelming with us two years ago (although briefly).

This summary seems to paint Barnes as a very solid SF defender and as a fighter at the PF (just too weak).  He would be a huge asset versus the Heat in trying to at least guard LBJ on the perimeter and I think would do a fine job vs. Wade.  He is a proven defender, unlike the horrifically overpaid Jeff Green.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Matt-Barnes-1592/

And it is not like he is 36 or 37.

Smitty77

Yes, but the point remains that no one really wants him. So he can't be all that good. He's on the downside of his career -- he peaked while playing with Golden State and Phoenix, which maybe says something about the type of system in which he needs to play.

I agree that there is a definite role for him to play -- I would love to see him get under LBJ's skin, and become a 'Bron Stopper similar to how Ruben Patterson styled his career as Kobe Stopper.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Roy H. on September 09, 2012, 12:29:30 PM
think that most would agree that Matt is a better defender than Jeff.

I'm not sure whether most would agree with that or not.  Green isn't much of a defender at PF, but he's average-to-above-average at SF (and stats rate him higher than that).  Is Barnes still at that level?  He certainly used to be, but I'm not sure that he is now.  I'd say he's about average at defense against mostly backups.

He would be a huge asset versus the Heat in trying to at least guard LBJ on the perimeter and I think would do a fine job vs. Wade.[/quote]

He would be another body to throw against Lebron, which is why I'd be fine signing him.  However, the defense he'd play would probably be below Pietrus' level, and certainly no better than third string. 

I have no confidence that he could defend Wade, still one of the best SGs in the league.  Barnes is just too slow.

Quote
He is a proven defender, unlike the horrifically overpaid Jeff Green.

Again, that's debatable.  The scouting report you provided was from 2008.  Barnes might not be 36, but he is 32, which is pretty old, especially for a perimeter player.

You slipped my question, though.  If Barnes is as good as, or better than, guys like Green and Lee, why is he getting a minimum contract, while those guys are earning a combined $55 million+?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 09, 2012, 12:29:53 PM
I have no idea why most teams would not want an 11.50 Efficiency Rated player coming off their bench.  How many teams have one or more than one player with that high of a rating coming off their benches?

And he comes cheap!

Smitty77 
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 09, 2012, 12:38:16 PM
Roy,

I didn't mean to "slip" your question.  I imagine that the reason why he is being offered so little is due to his attitude.  (I think that has has proven to be a good teammate, but a hated rival.  LA is looking to perhaps give the recently resigned Devin Ebanks more playing time to develop.)  That would NOT be a problem on a team with KG on it.  He would have to walk the line on KG's team.  I just stumbled on this which is like affecting his ability to get a good deal:

"Barnes was arrested by Manhattan Beach back in July for a traffic violation and for resisting arrest."

The question I would like to ask of you is Jeff Green going to still be able to defend like he did at OKC??  He really did not impress me for us in the playoffs 2 years ago at all!!

As for Pietrus, he tried hard on defense for us, but he was beyond terrible on offense.  I, once again, was not impressed with Pietrus's overall defense.  I was impressed with his effort.

I think we would get similar effort, but better results on defense, and better offense from Barnes compared to the French Connection.

Smitty77
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: rondohondo on September 09, 2012, 01:18:49 PM
I wouldn't mind signing Barnes because it then gives you the option of packaging some young players like Bradley and Green for possibly a Josh Smith or another good big man type player , but still leaves you with good depth with Barnes being able to step in as a backup SF and Terry and Lee locking up the PG/SG mins that we would lose if we traded Bradley.



Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: OsirusCeltics on September 09, 2012, 01:19:01 PM
Matt Barnes would be a great signing for a third string SF.

I am kind of shocked he'd consider coming here though with Paul Pierce and Jeff Green already in place at his position. He should find himself a better home. Barnes should go somewhere where he can still play regular minutes.

He'll never find that place because he's not any good anymore.

I thought they were saving the BAE for a potential big.

Yes I agree, Celtics should use this last spot for a CENTER
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Boris Badenov on September 09, 2012, 02:30:16 PM
I have no idea why most teams would not want an 11.50 Efficiency Rated player coming off their bench.  How many teams have one or more than one player with that high of a rating coming off their benches?

And he comes cheap!

Smitty77

Actually, Barnes' PER last year was 15.5, according to basketball reference and ESPN.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnema02.html

What's more, his per-36 stats are unchanged over the last 5-6 years. All the evidence suggests that he has not declined at all. Not one bit.

I'm with you, Smitty. I don't get the objection to him, at a low price and as a 3rd stringer.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Boris Badenov on September 09, 2012, 03:22:28 PM
You slipped my question, though.  If Barnes is as good as, or better than, guys like Green and Lee, why is he getting a minimum contract, while those guys are earning a combined $55 million+?

This is a very weak line of argument. Players' contracts are frequently only loosely related to their current abilities.

As just one example, if I recall correctly you yourself argued after the Lee signing that Ray Allen is better than Courtney Lee right now. So, why is Allen getting paid less?

And is Kris Humphries better than Kevin Garnett? They were both free agent PFs, and Humphries will make more next year.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Who on September 09, 2012, 03:59:58 PM
I thought Matt Barnes had the two best years of his career with the LA Lakers these past two years. I don't think he is on the downside of his career at all. That is why I have been surprised Barnes hasn't been getting more attention. Because he has been playing so well.

I would consider him a middle of the pack backup SF meaning there are close to 40-45 forwards who are better than Barnes at that SF position. Too streaky offensively (dodgy jumper) and not good enough defensively (below average, sub-par quickness) to rank higher than that despite his brilliant rebounding.

Still, that's pretty good for a third stringer and I think Matt Barnes would be a nice insurance for Jeff Green as Green returns from a year-long absence due to heart surgery.

The Celtics backcourt is very small with Rondo, Terry and Bradley. Even Courtney Lee, he is a slightly undersized SG too (no bulk). If for some reason Pierce or Green missed some time, it would leave the Celtics very undersized on the perimeter. It would be nice for Doc to have another perimeter player with solid size (6-8, 225) as insurance. Someone with a different skill-set. Give Doc more flexibility off the bench. 
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 09, 2012, 04:26:33 PM
Who,

There are "maybe" 23 true small forwards with higher regular season efficiency ratings from last year!!

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=22011&conf=OVERALL&position=2&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Barnes is NOT a below average defender either!

Smitty77
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 09, 2012, 04:27:16 PM
Boris,

Thanks for the support.  I was just looking at Eff. Ratings on nba.com.

Smitty77
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Roy H. on September 09, 2012, 04:39:43 PM
You slipped my question, though.  If Barnes is as good as, or better than, guys like Green and Lee, why is he getting a minimum contract, while those guys are earning a combined $55 million+?

This is a very weak line of argument. Players' contracts are frequently only loosely related to their current abilities.

As just one example, if I recall correctly you yourself argued after the Lee signing that Ray Allen is better than Courtney Lee right now. So, why is Allen getting paid less?

And is Kris Humphries better than Kevin Garnett? They were both free agent PFs, and Humphries will make more next year.

You think Matt Barnes is as good as Courtney Lee and Jeff Green?  Why are you calling him a third stringer, then?

Either you and Smitty are wrong about how good Barnes is, or every NBA GM is. 
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Roy H. on September 09, 2012, 04:41:26 PM
Who,

There are "maybe" 23 true small forwards with higher regular season efficiency ratings from last year!!

So, efficiency rankings suggest that Barnes could / should start for seven teams?  Do you buy that?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: crimson_stallion on September 09, 2012, 05:06:43 PM
Ron Artest has major mental issues and is a liability on offense more often then not, yet LA started him over Barnes. What dies that tell you about Barnes' game and mental state?

Would you say Artest is better then Jeff Green, because I sure as hell wouldn't.

Please.don't compare the trash that is Matt Barnes to Jeff Green.  Barnes is an old SF who can play decent defense and chuck up threes, that's it. Green is a decent defender and a versatile scorer whos athletic and can score from nearly anywhere on the court.  Barnes is at best Mikeal Pietrus with a terrible attitude, nothing more.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: fitzhickey on September 09, 2012, 05:08:48 PM
Matt Barnes would be a great signing for a third string SF.

I am kind of shocked he'd consider coming here though with Paul Pierce and Jeff Green already in place at his position. He should find himself a better home. Barnes should go somewhere where he can still play regular minutes.

He'll never find that place because he's not any good anymore.

I thought they were saving the BAE for a potential big.

Yes I agree, Celtics should use this last spot for a CENTER

Yeah Ben Wallace
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: KCattheStripe on September 09, 2012, 05:14:34 PM
Who,

There are "maybe" 23 true small forwards with higher regular season efficiency ratings from last year!!

So, efficiency rankings suggest that Barnes could / should start for seven teams?  Do you buy that?

Charlotte, Atlanta ( Unless they replaced Marvin and I missed it), Milwaukee ( He could win that job from Dunleavy),  Orlando,  Cleveland ( Casspi's been pretty bad),  Philly,  New Orleans.

I would buy him starting for all these teams. Note that none except for Philly are deep playoff threats and I don't mind them sticking with Dorrell Wright, I just could see Barnes starting over him.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Who on September 09, 2012, 05:31:05 PM
Who,

There are "maybe" 23 true small forwards with higher regular season efficiency ratings from last year!!

So, efficiency rankings suggest that Barnes could / should start for seven teams?  Do you buy that?

Charlotte, Atlanta ( Unless they replaced Marvin and I missed it), Milwaukee ( He could win that job from Dunleavy),  Orlando,  Cleveland ( Casspi's been pretty bad),  Philly,  New Orleans.

I would buy him starting for all these teams. Note that none except for Philly are deep playoff threats and I don't mind them sticking with Dorrell Wright, I just could see Barnes starting over him.

I have three teams that I think Matt Barnes could clearly start on -- New Orleans (Aminu), Atlanta (D.Stevenson) and Cleveland (with Casspi starting at SG = his best position). And two more teams that I think are debatable -- Phoenix (Beasley) and Toronto (Fields) but I'd expect both teams to disagree with me there.

I don't think Barnes would start in Charlotte (MKG), Orlando (Hedo Turkoglu) or Philly (Evan Turner). I have Turner pegged as Philly's starting SF with Nick Young and J-Rich splitting the available time at SG. Thaddeus Young playing mostly PF but some SF. Dorell Wright fighting for scraps.

Oh Milwaukee, forgot them, I have Mbah a Moute or Tobias Harris starting there. I'd take both of them comfortably ahead of Barnes. Dunleavy only in a reserve role.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Boris Badenov on September 09, 2012, 07:04:07 PM
You slipped my question, though.  If Barnes is as good as, or better than, guys like Green and Lee, why is he getting a minimum contract, while those guys are earning a combined $55 million+?

This is a very weak line of argument. Players' contracts are frequently only loosely related to their current abilities.

As just one example, if I recall correctly you yourself argued after the Lee signing that Ray Allen is better than Courtney Lee right now. So, why is Allen getting paid less?

And is Kris Humphries better than Kevin Garnett? They were both free agent PFs, and Humphries will make more next year.

You think Matt Barnes is as good as Courtney Lee and Jeff Green?  Why are you calling him a third stringer, then?

Either you and Smitty are wrong about how good Barnes is, or every NBA GM is.

I never said that Barnes was as good as Lee or Green. I never compared them at all, in fact.

I said Barnes is a bargain at the vet minimum and a very high quality third stringer, and I stand by that.

What I was saying above is a completely separate point: using salaries to infer relative player ability is not very informative.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Celts Fan 92 on September 09, 2012, 07:18:38 PM
lol at us still talkin bout dis bum like i said earlier in da thread pass
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Neurotic Guy on September 09, 2012, 07:21:11 PM
It's hard to know whether C's would be better off finishing their roster with Barnes or a big like Wallace or Chris Anderson -- or perhaps leave as is.

The crystal ball we need is the one that shows us who will be injured over the course of the season.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Roy H. on September 09, 2012, 07:27:23 PM

What I was saying above is a completely separate point: using salaries to infer relative player ability is not very informative.

Of course it is, when the players you're comparing were all free agents, are all veterans, and play similar positions.  It's informative regarding how they're seen around the league.

Matt Barnes has been pegged as a veteran minimum guy.

Courtney Lee has been identified as an MLE player.

Jeff Green is seen as deserving of more than the MLE.

Since we're talking about largely established players, and they were all unrestricted free agents, I think that examining each player's market value tells us a lot about how NBA GMs see those players.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 09, 2012, 10:15:49 PM
Crimson Stallion,

Could it have something to do with the FACT that Ron really won game seven of the 2010 World Championship game for them???  When Ron is focused, he is still a premier defender.  Yes, he is a better and MUCH MORE physical option for the Lakers over the last few years.

Smitty77
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 09, 2012, 10:17:39 PM
Roy,

I can guarantee you this.  Jeff Green is NOT 9 times better than a vet minimum Matt Barnes:-)))  How about that:-))??

Smitty77
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Boris Badenov on September 09, 2012, 10:41:53 PM

What I was saying above is a completely separate point: using salaries to infer relative player ability is not very informative.

Of course it is, when the players you're comparing were all free agents, are all veterans, and play similar positions.  It's informative regarding how they're seen around the league.

Matt Barnes has been pegged as a veteran minimum guy.

Courtney Lee has been identified as an MLE player.

Jeff Green is seen as deserving of more than the MLE.

Since we're talking about largely established players, and they were all unrestricted free agents, I think that examining each player's market value tells us a lot about how NBA GMs see those players.

I agree with the (somewhat vague) statement that it tells us about how GMs "see those players." Their current market value is what it is, of course.

But what I said, originally, was that market value is not always informative about *current ability*. And contrary to what you said, Green, Lee and Barnes are actually at different career stages.

Lee and Green are both young guys, who have value now and in the future, and the (perceived) potential to get better. They are also attractive to almost any team in the league, from contenders to rebuilding teams. That drives up their market value.

Barnes is older, and also isn't a great fit for non-contenders looking to allocate minutes to younger, developing players (or who are worried about his negative influence on those younger guys). So, his market value is lower, both in terms of annual salary and in terms of total contract.

But it's entirely possible that right now, over this next season, Barnes could help a team like the Celtics as much, or nearly as much, as Green could. So, telling us their market values doesn't prove much about their relative talent.

I mean, just to give a couple more examples, last year Phoenix had no interest in Pietrus, buying out most of his $5 million salary, but we snapped him up and got good value for him at the minimum, because he's a good fit on a contending team.

Meanwhile, Phoenix went this summer and signed Beasley to an $18 million contract, based largely on the hope that he would reach his potential. But isn't it entirely possible that Barnes is a better player, right now and over the next year, than Beasley?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: crimson_stallion on September 10, 2012, 05:49:29 AM
Who,

There are "maybe" 23 true small forwards with higher regular season efficiency ratings from last year!!

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=22011&conf=OVERALL&position=2&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Barnes is NOT a below average defender either!

Smitty77

The problem is that every argument you made is based purely on this efficiency stat.  I like using that that as well, but loosely - you still need to look outside the square and actually look at a players abilities, not just one statistic.

For example last season Al Jefferson ranked 9th in the NBA in efficiency rating at 23.0.  That puts him above:

- Lemarcus Aldridge (22.6)
- Josh Smith (22.1)
- Dwyane Wade(22.0)
- Kobe Bryant (21.4)
- Marc Gasol (20.2)
- Russel Westbrook (20.5)
- Derrick Rose (20.4)
- Demarcus Cousins (20.3)
- Dirk Nowitski (20.2)
- Carmello Anthony (19.5)
- Tim Duncan (19.4)
- Deron Williams (19.4)
- Chris Bosh (19.2)
- Kyrie Irving (17.7)
- Roy Hibbert (17.6)
- Amare Stoudemire (17.4)
- Al Hortford (17.4)

Now Jefferson is a good player, but if you were starting a fresh team with the aim of winning a title right now would you really choose Jefferson over ALL of those guys to build around?

Better stat's don't always mean a better player.

What if you look at the Off Rating, Def Rating and Net Rating?

Player      | Off Rat | Def Rat | Net Rat
-----------------------------------------
M Barnes    | 105.2   | 102.3   | 2.8
-----------------------------------------
M Pietrus   | 97.9    | 95.4    | 2.5
E Moore     | 90.0    | 84.0    | 6.0
A Bradley   | 98.5    | 92.9    | 5.6

Now suddenly Barnes look like what he should - a rough equivalent to M Pietrus. 

Interestingly these stats also suggest that E'twaun Moore had twice as much positive impact on the team as Barnes and Pietrus did. More interetingly, Moore's rating was also higher then Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Brandon Bass, Avery Bradley and Rajon Rondo (all < 6).

Moral of the story is that these stats don't always tell the full story.  If they did E'Twaun Moore would have been our second most important player behind Kevin Garnett (9.6).  I liked Moore, but I assure you, Moore isn't that good!

Likewise Carlos Boozer's Def Rating indicates that he is a very good defensive player.  Anyone who has seen Boozer play knows that's far from the truth - it's a "statistical anomaly".

Stats are useful sure and I enjoy analysing them as much as the next guy, but as another person stated earlier there is certainly a reason why Barnes is going for the veteran minimum, and yet STILL hasn't been signed up.  Out of ~30 cash strapped teams struggling under a new bargaining agreement, surely one of those teams would have by now leaped out at Barnes for the minimum if he had that much positive impact.

Looking at his stats by category I'l grant you he has some upside.

His rebound ratio (9.9%) and his astRatio (17.4) are both right up there with Paul Pierce's numbers, and Pierce is very good in both areas by SF standards.

On the other hand, Barnes' turnover ratio (16.35) is VERY poor for a SF.   

To put this into perspective Jeff Green's Rebound ratio is not far behind (8.9%) and his astRatio is much lower (9.5).

Both Jeff Green (8.73) and Mickeal Pietrus (9.89) had turnover ratio's nearly half that of Barnes, meaning Matt Barnes is about twice as likely to turn the ball over as either of those two guys.

Far as scoring goes, Barnes' numbers are pretty unspectacular. 

The only place where he shoots often and efficiently is inside the restricted area (58%)

From in the Paint (not restricted area) he shot a horrific 26%, but only took 35 attempts (roughly one every 2 games).  Too small a sample to accurately judge.

From midrange he shot a very godo 49%, but again this was only 35 attempts - too small a sample size to put any faith into.

About 33% of all his FG attempts came from outside the three point line, where he shot pretty average from both the corner (35%) and above the break (33%).  You won't be scared to see him put up an open three, but he's not the guy you want taking one with the game on the line either.

Pietrus by comparison was mediocre from above the break (26%) but deadly from the corner (42%).  When he gets an open look from that corner, it's usually money.

So yes, Barnes does have some positves.  Stats indicate that he's a solid rebounder a very good passer, and a barely above averge defender.  Offensively he's a bit of a liability with pretty average shooting efficiency and a high turnover ratio. The Personality is another liability, especially if it could potentially create locker room problems on a Roster that Doc has tried so hard to build a good attitude into.

I'd much rather see Ben Wallace come our way to be honest because I think he gives fills two critical needs (rebounding and shotblocking) that no one else on our roster really contributs to.

Barnes wouldn't be a BAD signing, but I just don't see what need he fills.  What does he do that either Pierce, Green or Lee doesn't at the SF position?  He just creates more playing time problems.

Lets break down minutes for positions 1 through 4:

Starters:
C - Garnett (28 MPG)
PF - Bass (28 MPG)
SF - Pierce (28 MPG)
SG - Bradley (28 MPG)
PG - Rondo (32 MPG)

Now assuming Doc wants both Terry and Green playing up around the 28 MPG mark (which I believe he will) that leaves the bench as follows:
 
C - Wilcox (15 MPG), Collins (5 MPG)
PF - Green (8 MPG), Sullinger (12 MPG) 
SF - Jeff Green (20 MPG)
SG - Terry (10 MPG), Lee (10 MPG)
PG - Terry (16 MPG)

That's every single minute of the rotation accounted for. Now, if we sign another big (like Ben Wallace) then we can easilly give that last 5 mins at the Center spot to either Collins, Wallace or Melo depending on who we need on any given night - either of those three guys will be content warming the bench if need be.

However if we get Barnes, how are we going to give him ANY playing time at all without digging in to the minutes of Terry, Lee and Green - all of whom came to Boston with the promise of having a solid role on the team?

Barnes would be a pure bench warmer, and given his personality issues, do you really think he'd accept that role as calmly as guys like Marquis and Dooling did?  I doubt it...

This is why I'd rather see us get another servicable big man int he form of Ben Wallace (who fills important needs yet has no expectation of playing time) rather then adding guys who just duplicate skill sets we already have.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: crimson_stallion on September 10, 2012, 07:35:47 AM
Could it have something to do with the FACT that Ron really won game seven of the 2010 World Championship game for them???  When Ron is focused, he is still a premier defender.  Yes, he is a better and MUCH MORE physical option for the Lakers over the last few years.

2010 is exactly my point - since that time he has gone down hill HARD.  He's no longer the dominant defensive force he once was, his shot selection is attrocious, and he is a nutcase.  I can guarantee you that LA would love to get rid of the guy, but nobody wants him.

If Barnes efficiency rating was truly around the 12 mark then I can assure you that Artest's was not much above that, and Barnes had a higher 'Net Rating' then Artest, so why did LA play Artest 39 MPG in the playoffs while Barnes played about 1/3 of that?
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 10, 2012, 08:06:45 PM
CT,

They started Ron because he can bench press Matt Barnes with one arm:-))  Good point about Artest's E.R.  It was 8.60 for the regular season, but he upped it to 12.5 in the playoffs.  I stand by my first point. 

Smitty77
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Smitty77 on September 10, 2012, 08:09:28 PM
CS,

First, I do NOT only go by ER ratings.  Matt Barnes is a solid defender (by my eye test) that gets under the skin of opposing players.

Second, there will be nights when JET and other of our older players get the night off.  We have a TON of back to backs and I bet KG, PP, JET, etc. will not play in many of them.  Therefore, your projected minutes chart works when everyone plays, but that is assuming everyone is healthy and suiting up every night.

Smitty77

Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: SHAQATTACK on September 10, 2012, 09:53:57 PM
still praying this doesn't happen
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: crimson_stallion on September 10, 2012, 09:55:53 PM
CT,

They started Ron because he can bench press Matt Barnes with one arm:-))

Haha this is true  ;D

Second, there will be nights when JET and other of our older players get the night off.  We have a TON of back to backs and I bet KG, PP, JET, etc. will not play in many of them.  Therefore, your projected minutes chart works when everyone plays, but that is assuming everyone is healthy and suiting up every night.

I think it's mainly KG and Pierce that Doc is going to want to keep rested. 

While Terry isn't young himself, he is in very good shape physically.  Being an off guard and career 6th man, he doesn't take the same type of beating (or have the same type of mileage) on his body as PP and KG (who have played 30 MPG+ their whole careers, and have always played very physical).

Officially Terry is 35, but I think in terms of conditioning he's more like 32!

I think if we need to rest PP for a game we're still ok, because we can start Green at SF and both Lee and Joseph can play back up Green at that position.

Likewise if we need to rest Terry for a game we can easilly start Rondo + Lee and then Bradley and Dooling can provide backup minutes for both.

My bigger concern to be honest is KG. We don't really have a single big man who can rebound and defend the paint the way KG does - the closest we have to that is Fab Melo, and right now we have no idea how effective he's going to be.  I guess if we had to rest KG a game we could start Wilcox and have Collins / Melo / Sully back him up, but it's not optimal. 

I'd be much more confident if we had a guy like Ben Wallace who (if rotated with Wilcox) could very comfotably hold down the Center position in KG's absense on both ends of the floor.

The only real need I see for a guy like Barnes is against Miami, where it would give us yet another body to throw at Lebron on defense. I think we already have that covered pretty well though between Pierce, Green and Lee...but another to add to the list would never hurt. 
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: crownontherocks on September 12, 2012, 10:08:07 PM
Matt Barnes - G/F - Lakers
According to Sam Amick of Sports Illustrated, unrestricted free agent G/F Matt Barnes is close to signing with the Clippers.
It appears that the Lakers are set to move on without Barnes, who started several games for them last season at SF. He has shown stretches where he can get hot, but he is far too inconsistent to be relied upon in standard sized leagues. He would would be a low-risk, high-reward add that would replace the toughness and defensive mentality lost with the exit of free-agent forward Kenyon Martin, but he has also said he is talking to the Mavericks, Heat and Nets as well. Stay tuned.
Related: Mavericks, Clippers, Heat
Source: Sports Illustrated Sep 12 - 5:11 PM
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: gar on September 12, 2012, 10:19:33 PM
As long as he will not be wearing green!

Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: lightspeed5 on September 13, 2012, 12:54:57 PM
signed with clips
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: gar on September 13, 2012, 01:18:47 PM
lol at us still talkin bout dis bum like i said earlier in da thread pass

TP
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: wdleehi on September 13, 2012, 01:47:41 PM
signed with clips


Makes me happy.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Who on September 13, 2012, 01:56:25 PM
Very poor decision to sign with the Clippers. They already have Caron Butler and Grant Hill there. Matt Barnes should've gone somewhere he can play. Where he can get regular minutes. Not only that but Barnes is a bad fit with a PG like Chris Paul. He doesn't even fit their team. Dumb decision.
Title: Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
Post by: Boris Badenov on September 13, 2012, 03:30:32 PM
Very poor decision to sign with the Clippers. They already have Caron Butler and Grant Hill there. Matt Barnes should've gone somewhere he can play. Where he can get regular minutes. Not only that but Barnes is a bad fit with a PG like Chris Paul. He doesn't even fit their team. Dumb decision.

Butler is fairly injury-prone and while Hill's been very durable, he is 39 years old. I think there's a good chance that Barnes ends up starting a few games and averaging 25 minutes per game. That'll be enough to keep him on the radar for another year.