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Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Topic started by: JSD on August 23, 2012, 11:21:09 PM
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ESPN SportsCenter - USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of his 7 Tour de France titles, ban him from cycling for life
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ESPN SportsCenter - USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of his 7 Tour de France titles, ban him from cycling for life
I feel a lot about Lance Armstrong like i do about McGuire and Clemens (but not Bonds, although that's being a hypocrite and I know it):
What they did for the sport was huge, and you always 'kinda knew' that this stuff was going on. I don't see what airing this out now will help. Clemens/McGuire's grand jury, stripping Armstrong, Sammy Sosa's public flogging...
Don't see the point. Can't wait to find out in 2016 that Michael Phelps was using.
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Floyd Landis tried to tell us in 06 but nobody listened. Lance out chea wit da guilty conscious finally gave in his legacy took a hit man cuz he had dat nice story bout recovering from cancer but lyin cheatin nd covering up for a 10 year period when he was da sports biggest athlete aint a good look
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Mixed emotions about how this was handled on all sides, but it just plain sucks.
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I'm sure Armstrong's legacy will take a hit with this develoipement. People will just jump to the conclusion he is automatically guilty.
For me personally, this does not change how I view Armstrong. He is a cancer survivor, who overcame odds to become the greatest champion in the sport ever. Even while surrounded by competitors constantly banned for failed tests, Armsrong never once tested positive.
Where is the blood evidence? The USADA has been testing in conjunction witht he World Anti-doping agency for years. This is not a situation similar to baseball where the atheletes were not tested at all. Testosterone and HGH have been tested for, for some time now in cycling.
Maybe Armstong is guilty, maye he isn't. A man deciding the fight is no longer worth it, does not equate to guilt for me. He was the absolute best in a sport of cheaters. Did he also cheat? Reasonable suspiscion might say yes, empirical evidence (outside of testimony that is dubious) says inconclusive.
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I feel a lot about Lance Armstrong like i do about McGuire and Clemens (but not Bonds, although that's being a hypocrite and I know it):
What they did for the sport was huge, and you always 'kinda knew' that this stuff was going on. I don't see what airing this out now will help. Clemens/McGuire's grand jury, stripping Armstrong, Sammy Sosa's public flogging...
Don't see the point. Can't wait to find out in 2016 that Michael Phelps was using.
I think the point is to show the next generation that even if they can hide PED use while they're in the sport, sooner or later it'll catch up to them. It's intended as a deterrent as much as anything else. "Intended" being the operative word, who knows if it'll work.
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This is a great development. Anytime people like Armstrong are exposed it is good news because it helps non-cheaters compete. It helps bring integrity to the sport.
This is a win for people who try to live their lives ethically.
Not that I care in particular since it is just biking.
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All these years of clean tests and they use oral evidence to push them over the edge to do this? I think he cheated but I find it disgraceful to do this when there just isn't enough evidence
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Not that I care in particular since it is just biking.
It's not an overwhelmingly popular sport, that's for certain.
Honestly, while I feel Armstrong is getting a bad rap, I'm not really bothered by it any considerable manner.
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In my opinion, this reeks of being a PR move to salvage the sport. It's very poorly calculated though.
While it might seem beneficial to take out the most popular athelete to ever grace the sport, in an attempt to show a "See, we ARE serious!" mentality, the sport itself it too sparsely followed to make a dent it it's perception though. Atheltes will continue to find means to cheat the system.
The USADA still has no evidence other than third party testimony. This reminds of a classic "witch hunt".
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Every one of his major "rivals" had been taken down as a doper, was only a matter of time before they got him.
No way to beat an entire field of dopers being clean....
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I'm sure Armstrong's legacy will take a hit with this develoipement. People will just jump to the conclusion he is automatically guilty.
For me personally, this does not change how I view Armstrong. He is a cancer survivor, who overcame odds to become the greatest champion in the sport ever. Even while surrounded by competitors constantly banned for failed tests, Armsrong never once tested positive.
Where is the blood evidence? The USADA has been testing in conjunction witht he World Anti-doping agency for years. This is not a situation similar to baseball where the atheletes were not tested at all. Testosterone and HGH have been tested for, for some time now in cycling.
Maybe Armstong is guilty, maye he isn't. A man deciding the fight is no longer worth it, does not equate to guilt for me. He was the absolute best in a sport of cheaters. Did he also cheat? Reasonable suspiscion might say yes, empirical evidence (outside of testimony that is dubious) says inconclusive.
When you don't show up to court to defend yourself "because its too hard" that means you are guilty or lose the case.
You can't whine about the summary judgment against you after the fact. (or before the fact in Armstrong's case)
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I'm sure Armstrong's legacy will take a hit with this develoipement. People will just jump to the conclusion he is automatically guilty.
For me personally, this does not change how I view Armstrong. He is a cancer survivor, who overcame odds to become the greatest champion in the sport ever. Even while surrounded by competitors constantly banned for failed tests, Armsrong never once tested positive.
Where is the blood evidence? The USADA has been testing in conjunction witht he World Anti-doping agency for years. This is not a situation similar to baseball where the atheletes were not tested at all. Testosterone and HGH have been tested for, for some time now in cycling.
Maybe Armstong is guilty, maye he isn't. A man deciding the fight is no longer worth it, does not equate to guilt for me. He was the absolute best in a sport of cheaters. Did he also cheat? Reasonable suspiscion might say yes, empirical evidence (outside of testimony that is dubious) says inconclusive.
When you don't show up to court to defend yourself "because its too hard" that means you are guilty or lose the case.
You can't whine about the summary judgment against you after the fact. (or before the fact in Armstrong's case)
When the USADA can produce evidence, other than dubious testimony from competitors who lost to him (teammates are still his competitors), I'll believe them. Perception is in the eye of the beholder.
This isn't "real" court. He is not required to attend. I can't believe anyone would honestly believe an individual not showing up for such a financially coslty hearing for something as arbitrary as sport is inherently guilty.
Why should Armstrong continue to spend his own money on a fight when the other side has vastly more money? Hardware and legacy? The loss of hardware can never take the memories from him. He knows the truth, it's his conscious. His legacy is still that of a cancer survivor, and humanitarian.
You can add cheat to that if you want. I'd like to actually see some legitimate evidence before I condemn a man.
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Maybe we can make some comparisons between diehard Lance Armstrong supporters and diehard Joe Paterno loyalists.
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Maybe we can make some comparisons between diehard Lance Armstrong supporters and diehard Joe Paterno loyalists.
Wow!
How the two are even comparable is unfathomable. That is quite the reckless statement.
Cheating in sport and child abuse are definitely similar ::)
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I'm sure Armstrong's legacy will take a hit with this develoipement. People will just jump to the conclusion he is automatically guilty.
For me personally, this does not change how I view Armstrong. He is a cancer survivor, who overcame odds to become the greatest champion in the sport ever. Even while surrounded by competitors constantly banned for failed tests, Armsrong never once tested positive.
Where is the blood evidence? The USADA has been testing in conjunction witht he World Anti-doping agency for years. This is not a situation similar to baseball where the atheletes were not tested at all. Testosterone and HGH have been tested for, for some time now in cycling.
Maybe Armstong is guilty, maye he isn't. A man deciding the fight is no longer worth it, does not equate to guilt for me. He was the absolute best in a sport of cheaters. Did he also cheat? Reasonable suspiscion might say yes, empirical evidence (outside of testimony that is dubious) says inconclusive.
When you don't show up to court to defend yourself "because its too hard" that means you are guilty or lose the case.
You can't whine about the summary judgment against you after the fact. (or before the fact in Armstrong's case)
This isn't "real" court. He is not required to attend. I can't believe anyone would honestly believe an individual not showing up for such a financially coslty hearing for something as arbitrary as sport is inherently guilty.
If he wants to maintain his innocence then he is required to attend via the rules of his sport. If there was no "evidence" then why didn't he maintain his innocence at the arbitration hearing? There was evidence, it is merely testimony instead of physical tests indicating that he doped.
If you want to believe in such a dirty sport where entire teams doped that Armstrong was dominate for years and years and he was clean, well then I guess I'll shrug my shoulders just like I would about people who think Clemens was clean.
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Maybe we can make some comparisons between diehard Lance Armstrong supporters and diehard Joe Paterno loyalists.
Wow!
How the two are even comparable is unfathomable. That is quite the reckless statement.
Cheating in sport and child abuse are definitely similar ::)
I think he's just looking at the loyalists who refuse to look at evidence, not the actual crimes. He never said what you just said
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Maybe we can make some comparisons between diehard Lance Armstrong supporters and diehard Joe Paterno loyalists.
Wow!
How the two are even comparable is unfathomable. That is quite the reckless statement.
Cheating in sport and child abuse are definitely similar ::)
I think he's just looking at the loyalists who refuse to look at evidence, not the actual crimes. He never said what you just said
We'll see if people go as crazy as the PSU principals and alums have.
Considering the PSU president had the gall to claim he never heard "anything" that suggested the depth of Sandusky's crimes when there is a handwritten note all over the internet detailing how he was going to call child protective services if Sandusky didn't "admit he had a problem", I have my doubts that they can match that particular group of ostriches.
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This is a great development. Anytime people like Armstrong are exposed it is good news because it helps non-cheaters compete.
... or, more likely, it leads to a better class of cheater. The entire sport of cycling is dirty, and no non-cheater is ever going to be able to compete. It's all about not getting caught. Or, in the case of Armstrong, not getting caught (500+ clean drug tests), and not having other cheaters rat you out.
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Im really not sure how i feel about this, on the one hand I really don't care because its cycling. Any sport where the penultimate competition takes place in France lacks credibility from the get go for me.
On the other hand he is a guy who has done alot of good for cancer research and he was in dodgeball.
tough call.
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This is a great development. Anytime people like Armstrong are exposed it is good news because it helps non-cheaters compete.
... or, more likely, it leads to a better class of cheater. The entire sport of cycling is dirty, and no non-cheater is ever going to be able to compete. It's all about not getting caught. Or, in the case of Armstrong, not getting caught (500+ clean drug tests), and not having other cheaters rat you out.
Pretty much.
Which is one of the reasons I think they went after him so hard, the entire culture is so dirty they're trying to burn it down.
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ESPN SportsCenter - USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of his 7 Tour de France titles, ban him from cycling for life
I feel a lot about Lance Armstrong like i do about McGuire and Clemens (but not Bonds, although that's being a hypocrite and I know it):
What they did for the sport was huge, and you always 'kinda knew' that this stuff was going on. I don't see what airing this out now will help. Clemens/McGuire's grand jury, stripping Armstrong, Sammy Sosa's public flogging...
Don't see the point. Can't wait to find out in 2016 that Michael Phelps was using.
Finally!! Biggest fake hero of our time.
But this won't stop other cyclists to use PED because at the end of the day money talks. Estimation is that Lance earned more than 100M through his career. What a scam.
I agree with the bold part. Phelps is my #2 at the fake heroes list.
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Maybe we can make some comparisons between diehard Lance Armstrong supporters and diehard Joe Paterno loyalists.
Wow!
How the two are even comparable is unfathomable. That is quite the reckless statement.
Cheating in sport and child abuse are definitely similar ::)
I think he's just looking at the loyalists who refuse to look at evidence, not the actual crimes. He never said what you just said
We'll see if people go as crazy as the PSU principals and alums have.
Considering the PSU president had the gall to claim he never heard "anything" that suggested the depth of Sandusky's crimes when there is a handwritten note all over the internet detailing how he was going to call child protective services if Sandusky didn't "admit he had a problem", I have my doubts that they can match that particular group of ostriches.
True. I don't see anyone in the Lance thing getting as desperate as that. I mean if Lance himself isn't fighting it I don't see why others will. It might be apples and oranges but the PSU apples are way bigger and way rottener. PSU's defense has devolved into "The Freeh report is extensive but not perfect" and "the NCAA is a big meany" and "I'm not omniscient! I only write really incriminating emails trying to figure out what's going on and then say I can't recall it". To me this PSU thing is pretty much going to be the 9/11 of sports or the Columbine shooting of sports or the Pearl Harbor. Just this legendary moment of infamy that I'll live with till I die and even my great grandchildren will know about. Great Grandpa was at PSU when this happened. And I saw 9/11 through the windows. Excuse me. I think I might go cry now.
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ESPN SportsCenter - USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of his 7 Tour de France titles, ban him from cycling for life
I feel a lot about Lance Armstrong like i do about McGuire and Clemens (but not Bonds, although that's being a hypocrite and I know it):
What they did for the sport was huge, and you always 'kinda knew' that this stuff was going on. I don't see what airing this out now will help. Clemens/McGuire's grand jury, stripping Armstrong, Sammy Sosa's public flogging...
Don't see the point. Can't wait to find out in 2016 that Michael Phelps was using.
Finally!! Biggest fake hero of our time.
But this won't stop other cyclists to use PED because at the end of the day money talks. Estimation is that Lance earned more than 100M through his career. What a scam.
I agree with the bold part. Phelps is my #2 at the fake heroes list.
you could have let me live with the bliss till 2016 you know
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Where there is smoke there is fire. Seriously, does he have to pay his own legal bills to fight this stuff, I would give up too. He does commercials and probably speaks at engagements but these trials get pricey.
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Cycling makes boxing look like a clean sport.
I've admired Armstrong and what he's done. I've wanted him to be clean but there's certainly some suspicion there. This development doesn't really change anything for me but there is a lot of circumstantial stuff out there that points to him being another in a long line of doping cyclists.
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This is a great development. Anytime people like Armstrong are exposed it is good news because it helps non-cheaters compete.
... or, more likely, it leads to a better class of cheater. The entire sport of cycling is dirty, and no non-cheater is ever going to be able to compete. It's all about not getting caught. Or, in the case of Armstrong, not getting caught (500+ clean drug tests), and not having other cheaters rat you out.
I think the fact he passed ALL the drug tests really puts these third party accusations into serious question. If the physical evidence doesn't support the accusations, they should have just left him alone. I think this puts a black eye on this sport more than it helps it.
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This is a great development. Anytime people like Armstrong are exposed it is good news because it helps non-cheaters compete.
... or, more likely, it leads to a better class of cheater. The entire sport of cycling is dirty, and no non-cheater is ever going to be able to compete. It's all about not getting caught. Or, in the case of Armstrong, not getting caught (500+ clean drug tests), and not having other cheaters rat you out.
I think the fact he passed ALL the drug tests really puts these third party accusations into serious question. If the physical evidence doesn't support the accusations, they should have just left him alone. I think this puts a black eye on this sport more than it helps it.
Marion Jones passed all of her drug tests too, only after the feds got her for tax fraud and check fraud and forced her to confess did she. (Her A sample once came back positive but her B sample tested clean)
The USADA claims to have blood tests from 2009-2010 that provide evidence of doping along with all the testimony.
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Okay he may or may not have used. Or the drugs he took for his cancer treatment either gave him the boost he needed, or hide the other drugs.
But he's been clean on all drug test. Nothing was found that he cheated those test.
But we take the word of a cheater that he cheated?
What happened to innocent until proven guilty.
I can't believe that they can strip him with out and hard proof. Especially when he beat people that were using to, so its not like if he was, he had a huge advantage over some of the other main contending riders.
Used or not, I use to bike, and the only time I watched the tour was during his run. It was amazing how he could be behind and then once they got to the mountains he ran away with it.
If he didn't use, I think the reason it seemed like he did, is because of his battle with cancer. He new the limits of his body, what pains he could work threw, and how much it took till his body had no more. So he could push threw more.
Its too bad, he's done more good than bad.
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ESPN SportsCenter - USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of his 7 Tour de France titles, ban him from cycling for life
I feel a lot about Lance Armstrong like i do about McGuire and Clemens (but not Bonds, although that's being a hypocrite and I know it):
What they did for the sport was huge, and you always 'kinda knew' that this stuff was going on. I don't see what airing this out now will help. Clemens/McGuire's grand jury, stripping Armstrong, Sammy Sosa's public flogging...
Don't see the point. Can't wait to find out in 2016 that Michael Phelps was using.
Finally!! Biggest fake hero of our time.
But this won't stop other cyclists to use PED because at the end of the day money talks. Estimation is that Lance earned more than 100M through his career. What a scam.
I agree with the bold part. Phelps is my #2 at the fake heroes list.
Not to get too far off topic but how about the entire NBA?
Waiting for that bomb to drop. I mean seriously
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Not to get too far off topic but how about the entire NBA?
Waiting for that bomb to drop. I mean seriously
And the NFL. And the NHL.
I think it's comical that you see only a handful of suspensions related to PED use in football every year. I guarantee that at least 50% of the league is doping, and it's probably much higher than that.
I mean, I saw guys using steroids on our dinky Class B football team in Maine. I saw football players and rowers using steroids at a small NESCAC Division III team. And yet, I'm supposed to believe that it doesn't happen at the highest level of the sport?
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Okay he may or may not have used. Or the drugs he took for his cancer treatment either gave him the boost he needed, or hide the other drugs.
But he's been clean on all drug test. Nothing was found that he cheated those test.
But we take the word of a cheater that he cheated?
What happened to innocent until proven guilty.
I can't believe that they can strip him with out and hard proof. Especially when he beat people that were using to, so its not like if he was, he had a huge advantage over some of the other main contending riders.
Used or not, I use to bike, and the only time I watched the tour was during his run. It was amazing how he could be behind and then once they got to the mountains he ran away with it.
If he didn't use, I think the reason it seemed like he did, is because of his battle with cancer. He new the limits of his body, what pains he could work threw, and how much it took till his body had no more. So he could push threw more.
Its too bad, he's done more good than bad.
The Doping Agencies don't have the power to strip anyone of their titles, so nothing has happened yet.
The Danish Tour de France-winner Bjarne Riis (1996) used to say, that he had never been tested positive. But in 2007 as a cycling team owner he came clean and admitted that he had used EPO at the time.
He was originally stripped of his title by the organizers, but got reinstated with an asterisk a year later for two reasons: First of all the UCI wouldn't take the title away from Riis, so the organizers would have trouble rewriting history. Secondly it was too late to change the results according to the rules (but the organizers could probably live with that).
A probable third reason might be, that all the top riders that year at some point have been suspended for doping (either tested positive or being connected to a doping program). So you couldn't replace Riis without opening Pandora's box.
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Not to get too far off topic but how about the entire NBA?
Waiting for that bomb to drop. I mean seriously
And the NFL. And the NHL.
I think it's comical that you see only a handful of suspensions related to PED use in football every year. I guarantee that at least 50% of the league is doping, and it's probably much higher than that.
I mean, I saw guys using steroids on our dinky Class B football team in Maine. I saw football players and rowers using steroids at a small NESCAC Division III team. And yet, I'm supposed to believe that it doesn't happen at the highest level of the sport?
I think 50% is low.
There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)
If the NBA and NFL enforced real bans, those leagues would evaporate.
I think as long as you have bans on some substances, the economic incentive for people to develop newer, better and harder-to-detect PEDs will be huge. Think about how much a professional athlete gains in salary for moving from "good" to "great." And, medical research is only going to get better in terms of its ability to develop those drugs.
Eventually I see the leagues as allowing a small set of the safest PEDs, with an understanding that players must be open about using them. The idea is to make it unappealing, financially and in terms of health, to use something illegal and possibly more dangerous for only a small performance edge relative to everyone else. There's really no other option that is workable over the long run.
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This is no surprise -- the possibility of this stuff happening has been around for the last couple years as more and more evidence about Armstrong's alleged drug use arose.
In any case, I admire Armstrong for what he did.
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I saw football players and rowers using steroids at a small NESCAC Division III team. And yet, I'm supposed to believe that it doesn't happen at the highest level of the sport?
I find the idea that NESCAC athletes were doping beyond say, using actual dope, hilarious. But then, maybe that's because I went to Wesleyan, were performance unenhancement was far more likely than the other. In earnest though, I suspect doping is far more widespread across sports than we'd all care to imagine (NESCAC included!). Any time you combine hypercompetitive people, money/career outcomes, and countless hours of training to gain a performance edge on opponents, it's a perfect brew for incentivizing doping, cheating, and any other shadow behavior in sports. A lesson as a sports viewer in not getting too wrapped up in sports or the character of people who play/run/manage them. But yet, here I am posting on a Celtics message board. I should really listen to myself more ;)
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There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)
You really think so? An awful lot of extraordinary things happened during the Steroid Era. Especially with regard to all the HR records. Heck, Brady Anderson got 50 batting leadoff and nobody even remembers him now.
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There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)
You really think so? An awful lot of extraordinary things happened during the Steroid Era. Especially with regard to all the HR records. Heck, Brady Anderson got 50 batting leadoff and nobody even remembers him now.
Good point, but I suspect that if everyone on the Pats' OL was juiced and playing against defenses where no one was taking PEDs, they would score about 100 points a game. I don't think we can ever see that edge, though, because in my opinion all of those guys are probably taking something, and have been since high school.
Just my guess though.
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There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)
You really think so? An awful lot of extraordinary things happened during the Steroid Era. Especially with regard to all the HR records. Heck, Brady Anderson got 50 batting leadoff and nobody even remembers him now.
Good point, but I suspect that if everyone on the Pats' OL was juiced and playing against defenses where no one was taking PEDs, they would score about 100 points a game. I don't think we can ever see that edge, though, because in my opinion all of those guys are probably taking something, and have been since high school.
Just my guess though.
True. It's weird reading old stories about NFL players openly juicing in the 70s (before steroids were illegal). That stuff's been a part of the culture for generations now.
I don't know how much of the NBA is on PEDs - my guess is it helps with recovery as much as an on-court advantage. I do have a pet theory that D-Wade quit (or dialed back) juicing after he tore his shoulder up that one season. That's a classic PED-type injury, and his physique changed pretty dramatically after that.
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Next week no one will care. He will still get high endorsements. The U.S. still holds him in high regard. It was a good move by him. Now he can get on with his life.
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There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)
You really think so? An awful lot of extraordinary things happened during the Steroid Era. Especially with regard to all the HR records. Heck, Brady Anderson got 50 batting leadoff and nobody even remembers him now.
Good point, but I suspect that if everyone on the Pats' OL was juiced and playing against defenses where no one was taking PEDs, they would score about 100 points a game. I don't think we can ever see that edge, though, because in my opinion all of those guys are probably taking something, and have been since high school.
Just my guess though.
True. It's weird reading old stories about NFL players openly juicing in the 70s (before steroids were illegal). That stuff's been a part of the culture for generations now.
I don't know how much of the NBA is on PEDs - my guess is it helps with recovery as much as an on-court advantage. I do have a pet theory that D-Wade quit (or dialed back) juicing after he tore his shoulder up that one season. That's a classic PED-type injury, and his physique changed pretty dramatically after that.
Interesting. I think Lebron would be a good person to test first.
- Built like a freak of nature.
- Emotionally unstable (constantly crying to refs over calls/non-calls)
- has a game based on his physical attributes.
- can't shoot worth a [dang] and that's the one thing PEDs wouldn't help.
I'm not saying he's using but he's the first one I start with if they do start testing in the NBA. Can only hope that a positive test would force Stern to vacate that title. ;D
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Next week no one will care. He will still get high endorsements. The U.S. still holds him in high regard. It was a good move by him. Now he can get on with his life.
Do not underestimate the "angry mob" mentality.
What the USADA is doing is disgraceful. Making it's highest profile athelete a whipping boy, in a vein attempt to rein in the sport and gain legitimacy, is misguided.
The sport of cycling itself seems to agree with Armstrong, thus why the UCI is still fighting for Armstrong to keep his titles. There is insufficient evidence to support the actions of the USADA and World Anti-doping Agency.
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There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)
You really think so? An awful lot of extraordinary things happened during the Steroid Era. Especially with regard to all the HR records. Heck, Brady Anderson got 50 batting leadoff and nobody even remembers him now.
Good point, but I suspect that if everyone on the Pats' OL was juiced and playing against defenses where no one was taking PEDs, they would score about 100 points a game. I don't think we can ever see that edge, though, because in my opinion all of those guys are probably taking something, and have been since high school.
Just my guess though.
True. It's weird reading old stories about NFL players openly juicing in the 70s (before steroids were illegal). That stuff's been a part of the culture for generations now.
I don't know how much of the NBA is on PEDs - my guess is it helps with recovery as much as an on-court advantage. I do have a pet theory that D-Wade quit (or dialed back) juicing after he tore his shoulder up that one season. That's a classic PED-type injury, and his physique changed pretty dramatically after that.
Interesting. I think Lebron would be a good person to test first.
- Built like a freak of nature.
- Emotionally unstable (constantly crying to refs over calls/non-calls)
- has a game based on his physical attributes.
- can't shoot worth a [dang] and that's the one thing PEDs wouldn't help.
I'm not saying he's using but he's the first one I start with if they do start testing in the NBA. Can only hope that a positive test would force Stern to vacate that title. ;D
Based on physical appearance alone, I would say:
Ron Artest
Dwight Howard
Blake Griffin
Ben Wallace
Kendrick Perkins
Corey Maggette
Tony Allen
Ben Gordon
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Do not underestimate the "angry mob" mentality.
What the USADA is doing is disgraceful. Making it's highest profile athelete a whipping boy, in a vein attempt to rein in the sport and gain legitimacy, is misguided.
The sport of cycling itself seems to agree with Armstrong, thus why the UCI is still fighting for Armstrong to keep his titles. There is insufficient evidence to support the actions of the USADA and World Anti-doping Agency.
This is not true at all. First, what the USADA is doing is actually pretty common practice.
Second, considering the UCI has been more than willing to sweep evidence against Armstrong under the rug, whatever they feel is irrelevant.
Finally, there is a lot more evidence against Armstrong, including tests from 09 and 10, than there ever was against Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, the East Germany swim teams, etc.
Seeing as dopers know they can get away with stuff if the tests don't exist for whatever they are doing, the only way to bust them is when testing technology catches up.
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I'm incredibly cynical about the majority of professional athletes, especially Michael Phelps.
I remember watching Ben Johnson run 100m in 9.79 seconds at the 1988 Olympics. He subsequently tested positive for Stanozolol and was stripped of his gold medal several days later. Fast forward 24 years to London 2012 and I'm supposed to believe that Usain Bolt can run 100m in 9.63 seconds while clean? Whatever.
That being said, I think Lance Armstrong should be left alone. It amuses me to see so many Europeans unable to deal with the fact that none of them can ever be considered as the greatest push bike rider in history.
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I'm incredibly cynical about the majority of professional athletes, especially Michael Phelps.
I remember watching Ben Johnson run 100m in 9.79 seconds at the 1988 Olympics. He subsequently tested positive for Stanozolol and was stripped of his gold medal several days later. Fast forward 24 years to London 2012 and I'm supposed to believe that Usain Bolt can run 100m in 9.63 seconds while clean? Whatever.
That being said, I think Lance Armstrong should be left alone. It amuses me to see so many Europeans unable to deal with the fact that none of them can ever be considered as the greatest push bike rider in history.
The USADA is the one going after him, not any Europeans. In fact, the UCI, based in Switzerland, has been a pretty pro Armstrong organization. I think it's funny that people get so caught up in nationalism and all that that they fail to understand that the case against Armstrong comes from the USADA, which is in turn based on testimony that came forward during a federal investigation into corruption on the US Postal team.
As for him being left alone, why? Tyler Hamilton was just stripped of his 2004 gold medal. Investigations into other cyclists are pretty much ongoing, why should Armstrong get a pass?
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There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)
You really think so? An awful lot of extraordinary things happened during the Steroid Era. Especially with regard to all the HR records. Heck, Brady Anderson got 50 batting leadoff and nobody even remembers him now.
Good point, but I suspect that if everyone on the Pats' OL was juiced and playing against defenses where no one was taking PEDs, they would score about 100 points a game. I don't think we can ever see that edge, though, because in my opinion all of those guys are probably taking something, and have been since high school.
Just my guess though.
True. It's weird reading old stories about NFL players openly juicing in the 70s (before steroids were illegal). That stuff's been a part of the culture for generations now.
I don't know how much of the NBA is on PEDs - my guess is it helps with recovery as much as an on-court advantage. I do have a pet theory that D-Wade quit (or dialed back) juicing after he tore his shoulder up that one season. That's a classic PED-type injury, and his physique changed pretty dramatically after that.
Interesting. I think Lebron would be a good person to test first.
- Built like a freak of nature.
- Emotionally unstable (constantly crying to refs over calls/non-calls)
- has a game based on his physical attributes.
- can't shoot worth a [dang] and that's the one thing PEDs wouldn't help.
I'm not saying he's using but he's the first one I start with if they do start testing in the NBA. Can only hope that a positive test would force Stern to vacate that title. ;D
Based on physical appearance alone, I would say:
Ron Artest
Dwight Howard
Blake Griffin
Ben Wallace
Kendrick Perkins
Corey Maggette
Tony Allen
Ben Gordon
So this is just Red Bull?
(http://shapes-store.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/naterobbig1400.jpg)
(http://spd.fotolog.com/photo/29/47/49/el_viola_kpo/1264470003774_f.jpg)
(http://thebostonjam.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/x2_89ef143.jpg?w=540)
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The U.S. still holds him in high regard.
I dunno people don't like cheaters. He pretty much threw in the towel. I hate cycling to me he was a guy who beat down cancer. But I do not look to buy things he endorses because of that. It's not like I avoid things he endorses like I do with Kobe or LeBron but he has never sold me anything.
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In MLB, "greenies" or amphetamines were widely used before players even started taking steroids. But, that never comes up when someone from the '70's or the '80's gets the honor of being nominated for Hall of Fame induction.
I can't say what other baseball players did before the '70's, but you sure could speculate a lot of things that happened then.
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Based on physical appearance alone, I would say:
Ron Artest
Dwight Howard
Blake Griffin
Ben Wallace
Kendrick Perkins
Corey Maggette
Tony Allen
Ben Gordon
So this is just Red Bull?
(http://shapes-store.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/naterobbig1400.jpg)
(http://spd.fotolog.com/photo/29/47/49/el_viola_kpo/1264470003774_f.jpg)
(http://thebostonjam.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/x2_89ef143.jpg?w=540)
Haha. Yes, he should probably make the list too.
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I'm incredibly cynical about the majority of professional athletes, especially Michael Phelps.
I remember watching Ben Johnson run 100m in 9.79 seconds at the 1988 Olympics. He subsequently tested positive for Stanozolol and was stripped of his gold medal several days later. Fast forward 24 years to London 2012 and I'm supposed to believe that Usain Bolt can run 100m in 9.63 seconds while clean? Whatever.
That being said, I think Lance Armstrong should be left alone. It amuses me to see so many Europeans unable to deal with the fact that none of them can ever be considered as the greatest push bike rider in history.
The USADA is the one going after him, not any Europeans. In fact, the UCI, based in Switzerland, has been a pretty pro Armstrong organization. I think it's funny that people get so caught up in nationalism and all that that they fail to understand that the case against Armstrong comes from the USADA, which is in turn based on testimony that came forward during a federal investigation into corruption on the US Postal team.
As for him being left alone, why? Tyler Hamilton was just stripped of his 2004 gold medal. Investigations into other cyclists are pretty much ongoing, why should Armstrong get a pass?
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't referring to the USADA at all. I was referring to the European push bike racing community at large, as their whinging at cafes on weekends amuses me on a personal level. Not disimilar to when the English still get upset when Diego Maradona's success is mentioned in conversation.
I think you call it trolling? ;D
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this is a pretty good summary of Lance's history and the evidence against him:
http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30172302298/its-not-about-the-bike
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I'm not going to read 4 pages of this thread to see if this has already been written but I thought it self evident that it was Lance Armstrong that ruined Lance Armstrong.
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Honestly though, wasn't lance just the best cheater? I don't know enough about cycling, but I hear that EVERYBODY cheats. So based on that, my opinion of lance hasnt changed
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So this is just Red Bull?
(http://shapes-store.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/naterobbig1400.jpg)
(http://spd.fotolog.com/photo/29/47/49/el_viola_kpo/1264470003774_f.jpg)
(http://thebostonjam.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/x2_89ef143.jpg?w=540)
That looks like a guy that goes to the gym a LOT. Not a body builder.
I'm not sure what the point you were trying to make with the pictures of his dunks was. Spud Web could dunk too.
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this is a pretty good summary of Lance's history and the evidence against him:
http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30172302298/its-not-about-the-bike
Many thanks for the link. If the content is accurate then it looks like the USADA have ticked all the boxes except for catching him red handed. No wonder he has thrown in the towel and given up.
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Of course we all know that whoever came in second and third in the years that Lance won were clean ::)
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Of course we all know that whoever came in second and third in the years that Lance won were clean ::)
No, but most of the second and third cyclists in those years have already been busted. There is no reason to stop at them.
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http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/8814744/report-lance-armstrong-banned-competing-all-olympic-sports-considering-publicly-admitting-used-performance-enhancing-drugs (http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/8814744/report-lance-armstrong-banned-competing-all-olympic-sports-considering-publicly-admitting-used-performance-enhancing-drugs)
Interesting.
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http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/8814744/report-lance-armstrong-banned-competing-all-olympic-sports-considering-publicly-admitting-used-performance-enhancing-drugs (http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/8814744/report-lance-armstrong-banned-competing-all-olympic-sports-considering-publicly-admitting-used-performance-enhancing-drugs)
Interesting.
the New York Times cites anonymous sources. To me that's like "the Politboro made something up again"
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I guess when it all boils down, the lesson should be that Lance Armstrong is just a person. No better or worse than most of us. We've all had our hands in the proverbial cookie jar in small (or large) ways and probably all know what it's like to deny the truth or outright lie in order to avoid blame or shame.
I guess I couldn't care less about his titles, his loss of titles, his admissions of guilt, or his future. He's just another fallible person like the rest of us. For those who feel cheated by his actions (probably like those who feel Clemens, McGuire, Bonds, etc. cheated you) I understand feeling duped. But it's long over and at the end of the day he is famous for riding bicycles as Bonds is famous for hitting a ball with a stick. I hope to hear very little about this in the coming days but am sure it will make big news if Lance admits his guilt.
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I guess when it all boils down, the lesson should be that Lance Armstrong is just a person. No better or worse than most of us. We've all had our hands in the proverbial cookie jar in small (or large) ways and probably all know what it's like to deny the truth or outright lie in order to avoid blame or shame.
I guess I couldn't care less about his titles, his loss of titles, his admissions of guilt, or his future. He's just another fallible person like the rest of us. For those who feel cheated by his actions (probably like those who feel Clemens, McGuire, Bonds, etc. cheated you) I understand feeling duped. But it's long over and at the end of the day he is famous for riding bicycles as Bonds is famous for hitting a ball with a stick. I hope to hear very little about this in the coming days but am sure it will make big news if Lance admits his guilt.
Nice post - TP.
This all just needs to go away. I know it's 'cheating' and I know it's 'wrong', but I may feel differently if the vast majoriy of top bicyclists also didn't test positive at some point in time. I guess the lesson in using PEDs is you can be really good, but don't be the best, or your life will be totally ruined.
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The only difference between Armstrong and all the other cyclists is he is the quintessential narcissist who I think truly believed he could get away with his lifetime of lies.
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The only difference between Armstrong and all the other cyclists is he is the quintessential narcissist who I think truly believed he could get away with his lifetime of lies.
This is one of the truest statements in this thread.
Here's a good read if you're interested, particularly if you think Lance is innocent...
http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30172302298/its-not-about-the-bike
And to those who are saying 'Lance has never failed a drug test', you really need to do your research. He's failed multiple tests throughout his career. The US cycling admin have kept results of tests hidden. They've tried to protect their image by protecting this scumbag but unfortunately when you roll the dice that many times, it catches up with you.
I was a big Lance fan until George Hinkappe (his long time team mate) testified against him to a US grand jury. That was the start of researching Lance doping history.
Freakish athlete, narcissist and public servant. Still a good old scumbag that got caught up in the cycling culture at the time and there's nothing he can do to go back and change it all.
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The only difference between Armstrong and all the other cyclists is he is the quintessential narcissist who I think truly believed he could get away with his lifetime of lies.
This is one of the truest statements in this thread.
Here's a good read if you're interested, particularly if you think Lance is innocent...
http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30172302298/its-not-about-the-bike
And to those who are saying 'Lance has never failed a drug test', you really need to do your research. He's failed multiple tests throughout his career. The US cycling admin have kept results of tests hidden. They've tried to protect their image by protecting this scumbag but unfortunately when you roll the dice that many times, it catches up with you.
I was a big Lance fan until George Hinkappe (his long time team mate) testified against him to a US grand jury. That was the start of researching Lance doping history.
Freakish athlete, narcissist and public servant. Still a good old scumbag that got caught up in the cycling culture at the time and there's nothing he can do to go back and change it all.
Why is he a scumbag? What has he done to hurt ANYONE (that you know of)? Oh, he's a scumbag b/c he doped up? Well I hate to break it to you, "all" athletes dope up... when you realize that then you should not fault Lance for it... it is your own fault that you were fooled when it's clear that "all" of them do it! The greatest athletes of yesteryear all doped up but we just didn't have the test for those people... but it was well known that they did! Also, what is banned now are things that other people were "free" to use in the past... so now we make these people into villains when others got away with it!
I personally don't care that he doped up (or lied to protect his career), he didn't hurt anyone AND he helped a lot of sick people with the money he helped to raise!
Stop living in a fantasy world people!! There probably wouldn't be these huge sports and quality players without some aid, steroids or other illegal things! If they aren't hurting anyone and they are doing their jobs (entertaining), then where is the problem. Another thing, just b/c he doped up it doesn't mean he didn't have to work just as hard... remember, everyone else is doping too, so if everyone is doing it, just doing it won't get you the wins... you have to be/have more than the roids!
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Armstrong should use this whole travail for marketing purposes - 'CheatStrong' anyone?
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If you guys are interested in stuff like this watch a movie called Bigger Stronger Faster. Its actually a really good movie/documentary that looks at both sides of the argument and how one sided people can be.
That being said. I dont think there is anyone out there that can honestly say they have never cheated at some point in their life.
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The only difference between Armstrong and all the other cyclists is he is the quintessential narcissist who I think truly believed he could get away with his lifetime of lies.
This is one of the truest statements in this thread.
Here's a good read if you're interested, particularly if you think Lance is innocent...
http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30172302298/its-not-about-the-bike
And to those who are saying 'Lance has never failed a drug test', you really need to do your research. He's failed multiple tests throughout his career. The US cycling admin have kept results of tests hidden. They've tried to protect their image by protecting this scumbag but unfortunately when you roll the dice that many times, it catches up with you.
I was a big Lance fan until George Hinkappe (his long time team mate) testified against him to a US grand jury. That was the start of researching Lance doping history.
Freakish athlete, narcissist and public servant. Still a good old scumbag that got caught up in the cycling culture at the time and there's nothing he can do to go back and change it all.
Why is he a scumbag? What has he done to hurt ANYONE (that you know of)? Oh, he's a scumbag b/c he doped up? Well I hate to break it to you, "all" athletes dope up... when you realize that then you should not fault Lance for it... it is your own fault that you were fooled when it's clear that "all" of them do it! The greatest athletes of yesteryear all doped up but we just didn't have the test for those people... but it was well known that they did! Also, what is banned now are things that other people were "free" to use in the past... so now we make these people into villains when others got away with it!
I personally don't care that he doped up (or lied to protect his career), he didn't hurt anyone AND he helped a lot of sick people with the money he helped to raise!
Stop living in a fantasy world people!! There probably wouldn't be these huge sports and quality players without some aid, steroids or other illegal things! If they aren't hurting anyone and they are doing their jobs (entertaining), then where is the problem. Another thing, just b/c he doped up it doesn't mean he didn't have to work just as hard... remember, everyone else is doping too, so if everyone is doing it, just doing it won't get you the wins... you have to be/have more than the roids!
Lance isn't a scumbag because he used illegal dope to further his professional career. He is a scumbag because he is a giant scumbag. The things he did to others to keep his doping secret is astonishing. Threats to ruin careers, actually ruining careers, suing people, and on and on and on. Seriously, you should read up on Lance. He is it absolute epitome of scumbag.
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Pretty Bad. They gave him plenty of chances to come clean. He brought this on himself.
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The only difference between Armstrong and all the other cyclists is he is the quintessential narcissist who I think truly believed he could get away with his lifetime of lies.
This is one of the truest statements in this thread.
Here's a good read if you're interested, particularly if you think Lance is innocent...
http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30172302298/its-not-about-the-bike
And to those who are saying 'Lance has never failed a drug test', you really need to do your research. He's failed multiple tests throughout his career. The US cycling admin have kept results of tests hidden. They've tried to protect their image by protecting this scumbag but unfortunately when you roll the dice that many times, it catches up with you.
I was a big Lance fan until George Hinkappe (his long time team mate) testified against him to a US grand jury. That was the start of researching Lance doping history.
Freakish athlete, narcissist and public servant. Still a good old scumbag that got caught up in the cycling culture at the time and there's nothing he can do to go back and change it all.
Why is he a scumbag? What has he done to hurt ANYONE (that you know of)? Oh, he's a scumbag b/c he doped up? Well I hate to break it to you, "all" athletes dope up... when you realize that then you should not fault Lance for it... it is your own fault that you were fooled when it's clear that "all" of them do it! The greatest athletes of yesteryear all doped up but we just didn't have the test for those people... but it was well known that they did! Also, what is banned now are things that other people were "free" to use in the past... so now we make these people into villains when others got away with it!
I personally don't care that he doped up (or lied to protect his career), he didn't hurt anyone AND he helped a lot of sick people with the money he helped to raise!
Stop living in a fantasy world people!! There probably wouldn't be these huge sports and quality players without some aid, steroids or other illegal things! If they aren't hurting anyone and they are doing their jobs (entertaining), then where is the problem. Another thing, just b/c he doped up it doesn't mean he didn't have to work just as hard... remember, everyone else is doping too, so if everyone is doing it, just doing it won't get you the wins... you have to be/have more than the roids!
He's built his career on the notion that he's the only champion in modern cycling that built a dynasty on not cheating. PLUS he has used his cancer battle to make the story even more like a fairy tale to make more money. He's also threatened numerous other cyclists and tried to use his clean image to bury their careers.
I've been a serious cyclist in my time and once admired this bag of scum. Once you do a little research on the guy you start to see how self involved he is, but you let his arrogance slide because he's a 7X tour winner who does a boatload for cancer... Then you find out he's been conning you for years, you've bought his books, supported him and stayed up late to watch him ride in France.
The best way to appreciate his scumbag status is to read his books and see how many times he gloats, boasts and 'confirms' that he didn't cheat and how he tries to be a model for the sport blah blah blah.
Complete and utter scum-bucket full of puss is this human being.
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the worst part about all this are the adament defenders of the liar.
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I find the news line pretty funny, just the concept of knowing that Armstrong is considering telling. lol
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The only difference between Armstrong and all the other cyclists is he is the quintessential narcissist who I think truly believed he could get away with his lifetime of lies.
This is one of the truest statements in this thread.
Here's a good read if you're interested, particularly if you think Lance is innocent...
http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30172302298/its-not-about-the-bike
And to those who are saying 'Lance has never failed a drug test', you really need to do your research. He's failed multiple tests throughout his career. The US cycling admin have kept results of tests hidden. They've tried to protect their image by protecting this scumbag but unfortunately when you roll the dice that many times, it catches up with you.
I was a big Lance fan until George Hinkappe (his long time team mate) testified against him to a US grand jury. That was the start of researching Lance doping history.
Freakish athlete, narcissist and public servant. Still a good old scumbag that got caught up in the cycling culture at the time and there's nothing he can do to go back and change it all.
Why is he a scumbag? What has he done to hurt ANYONE (that you know of)? Oh, he's a scumbag b/c he doped up? Well I hate to break it to you, "all" athletes dope up... when you realize that then you should not fault Lance for it... it is your own fault that you were fooled when it's clear that "all" of them do it! The greatest athletes of yesteryear all doped up but we just didn't have the test for those people... but it was well known that they did! Also, what is banned now are things that other people were "free" to use in the past... so now we make these people into villains when others got away with it!
I personally don't care that he doped up (or lied to protect his career), he didn't hurt anyone AND he helped a lot of sick people with the money he helped to raise!
Stop living in a fantasy world people!! There probably wouldn't be these huge sports and quality players without some aid, steroids or other illegal things! If they aren't hurting anyone and they are doing their jobs (entertaining), then where is the problem. Another thing, just b/c he doped up it doesn't mean he didn't have to work just as hard... remember, everyone else is doping too, so if everyone is doing it, just doing it won't get you the wins... you have to be/have more than the roids!
He's built his career on the notion that he's the only champion in modern cycling that built a dynasty on not cheating. PLUS he has used his cancer battle to make the story even more like a fairy tale to make more money. He's also threatened numerous other cyclists and tried to use his clean image to bury their careers.
I've been a serious cyclist in my time and once admired this bag of scum. Once you do a little research on the guy you start to see how self involved he is, but you let his arrogance slide because he's a 7X tour winner who does a boatload for cancer... Then you find out he's been conning you for years, you've bought his books, supported him and stayed up late to watch him ride in France.
The best way to appreciate his scumbag status is to read his books and see how many times he gloats, boasts and 'confirms' that he didn't cheat and how he tries to be a model for the sport blah blah blah.
Complete and utter scum-bucket full of puss is this human being.
LOL let him slide b/c he is a 7x champ? I do not watch or even like cycling!!! Cycling is just like NASCAR to me, a bunch of going round and round, BORING! He has raised a LOT of money for cancer... again, who has he hurt???? EVERY athlete has HUGE egos, you can't be good without one!! I don't care what he does as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else (I don't care about him hurting feelings)! Like I said, "all" athletes do some type of enhancements and "all" do so illegally but not many will get "caught"! You're just going to continue getting hurt feelings if you believe otherwise.
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The only difference between Armstrong and all the other cyclists is he is the quintessential narcissist who I think truly believed he could get away with his lifetime of lies.
This is one of the truest statements in this thread.
Here's a good read if you're interested, particularly if you think Lance is innocent...
http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30172302298/its-not-about-the-bike
And to those who are saying 'Lance has never failed a drug test', you really need to do your research. He's failed multiple tests throughout his career. The US cycling admin have kept results of tests hidden. They've tried to protect their image by protecting this scumbag but unfortunately when you roll the dice that many times, it catches up with you.
I was a big Lance fan until George Hinkappe (his long time team mate) testified against him to a US grand jury. That was the start of researching Lance doping history.
Freakish athlete, narcissist and public servant. Still a good old scumbag that got caught up in the cycling culture at the time and there's nothing he can do to go back and change it all.
Why is he a scumbag? What has he done to hurt ANYONE (that you know of)? Oh, he's a scumbag b/c he doped up? Well I hate to break it to you, "all" athletes dope up... when you realize that then you should not fault Lance for it... it is your own fault that you were fooled when it's clear that "all" of them do it! The greatest athletes of yesteryear all doped up but we just didn't have the test for those people... but it was well known that they did! Also, what is banned now are things that other people were "free" to use in the past... so now we make these people into villains when others got away with it!
I personally don't care that he doped up (or lied to protect his career), he didn't hurt anyone AND he helped a lot of sick people with the money he helped to raise!
Stop living in a fantasy world people!! There probably wouldn't be these huge sports and quality players without some aid, steroids or other illegal things! If they aren't hurting anyone and they are doing their jobs (entertaining), then where is the problem. Another thing, just b/c he doped up it doesn't mean he didn't have to work just as hard... remember, everyone else is doping too, so if everyone is doing it, just doing it won't get you the wins... you have to be/have more than the roids!
He's built his career on the notion that he's the only champion in modern cycling that built a dynasty on not cheating. PLUS he has used his cancer battle to make the story even more like a fairy tale to make more money. He's also threatened numerous other cyclists and tried to use his clean image to bury their careers.
I've been a serious cyclist in my time and once admired this bag of scum. Once you do a little research on the guy you start to see how self involved he is, but you let his arrogance slide because he's a 7X tour winner who does a boatload for cancer... Then you find out he's been conning you for years, you've bought his books, supported him and stayed up late to watch him ride in France.
The best way to appreciate his scumbag status is to read his books and see how many times he gloats, boasts and 'confirms' that he didn't cheat and how he tries to be a model for the sport blah blah blah.
Complete and utter scum-bucket full of puss is this human being.
LOL let him slide b/c he is a 7x champ? I do not watch or even like cycling!!! Cycling is just like NASCAR to me, a bunch of going round and round, BORING! He has raised a LOT of money for cancer... again, who has he hurt???? EVERY athlete has HUGE egos, you can't be good without one!! I don't care what he does as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else (I don't care about him hurting feelings)! Like I said, "all" athletes do some type of enhancements and "all" do so illegally but not many will get "caught"! You're just going to continue getting hurt feelings if you believe otherwise.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/zone-lance-armstrong-bully-downfall-article-1.1188512
Read this, documents him and his outfits' bullying and threatening (some death threats even being given) tactics. I understand you defending what he's done for cancer research, but threatening peoples' livelihoods definitely "hurts" people, and that's not even getting into his threats and intimidation tactics used toward those who wouldn't stay silent about his doping, and their respective families.
You sound like a pretty devout Armstrong supporter (for whatever reason) who's opinion won't be budged, but I think his tactics make him more than a scumbag and shows that he has indeed "hurt" people who wouldn't keep silent about his lying and drug abuse. Despite his humanitarian work, dude is an arrogant ass.
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People are asking who Armstrong has hurt. You should read the posts more carefully. He has ruined other people's carrier to protect his own. He has denied, denied, denied when other people came clean.
And please don't tell me that you aren't hurting anyone just by being a liar and a cheat. That always comes with a price. There are probably a lot of people close to Armstrong, who either had to protect the secret or were kept in the dark. Either way, they have paid a price, too.
And then there are the few cyclists who were actually clean in the Armstrong era. They got cheated in a big way.
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The only difference between Armstrong and all the other cyclists is he is the quintessential narcissist who I think truly believed he could get away with his lifetime of lies.
This is one of the truest statements in this thread.
Here's a good read if you're interested, particularly if you think Lance is innocent...
http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30172302298/its-not-about-the-bike
And to those who are saying 'Lance has never failed a drug test', you really need to do your research. He's failed multiple tests throughout his career. The US cycling admin have kept results of tests hidden. They've tried to protect their image by protecting this scumbag but unfortunately when you roll the dice that many times, it catches up with you.
I was a big Lance fan until George Hinkappe (his long time team mate) testified against him to a US grand jury. That was the start of researching Lance doping history.
Freakish athlete, narcissist and public servant. Still a good old scumbag that got caught up in the cycling culture at the time and there's nothing he can do to go back and change it all.
Why is he a scumbag? What has he done to hurt ANYONE (that you know of)? Oh, he's a scumbag b/c he doped up? Well I hate to break it to you, "all" athletes dope up... when you realize that then you should not fault Lance for it... it is your own fault that you were fooled when it's clear that "all" of them do it! The greatest athletes of yesteryear all doped up but we just didn't have the test for those people... but it was well known that they did! Also, what is banned now are things that other people were "free" to use in the past... so now we make these people into villains when others got away with it!
I personally don't care that he doped up (or lied to protect his career), he didn't hurt anyone AND he helped a lot of sick people with the money he helped to raise!
Stop living in a fantasy world people!! There probably wouldn't be these huge sports and quality players without some aid, steroids or other illegal things! If they aren't hurting anyone and they are doing their jobs (entertaining), then where is the problem. Another thing, just b/c he doped up it doesn't mean he didn't have to work just as hard... remember, everyone else is doping too, so if everyone is doing it, just doing it won't get you the wins... you have to be/have more than the roids!
He's built his career on the notion that he's the only champion in modern cycling that built a dynasty on not cheating. PLUS he has used his cancer battle to make the story even more like a fairy tale to make more money. He's also threatened numerous other cyclists and tried to use his clean image to bury their careers.
I've been a serious cyclist in my time and once admired this bag of scum. Once you do a little research on the guy you start to see how self involved he is, but you let his arrogance slide because he's a 7X tour winner who does a boatload for cancer... Then you find out he's been conning you for years, you've bought his books, supported him and stayed up late to watch him ride in France.
The best way to appreciate his scumbag status is to read his books and see how many times he gloats, boasts and 'confirms' that he didn't cheat and how he tries to be a model for the sport blah blah blah.
Complete and utter scum-bucket full of puss is this human being.
LOL let him slide b/c he is a 7x champ? I do not watch or even like cycling!!! Cycling is just like NASCAR to me, a bunch of going round and round, BORING! He has raised a LOT of money for cancer... again, who has he hurt???? EVERY athlete has HUGE egos, you can't be good without one!! I don't care what he does as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else (I don't care about him hurting feelings)! Like I said, "all" athletes do some type of enhancements and "all" do so illegally but not many will get "caught"! You're just going to continue getting hurt feelings if you believe otherwise.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/zone-lance-armstrong-bully-downfall-article-1.1188512
Read this, documents him and his outfits' bullying and threatening (some death threats even being given) tactics. I understand you defending what he's done for cancer research, but threatening peoples' livelihoods definitely "hurts" people, and that's not even getting into his threats and intimidation tactics used toward those who wouldn't stay silent about his doping, and their respective families.
You sound like a pretty devout Armstrong supporter (for whatever reason) who's opinion won't be budged, but I think his tactics make him more than a scumbag and shows that he has indeed "hurt" people who wouldn't keep silent about his lying and drug abuse. Despite his humanitarian work, dude is an arrogant ass.
Like I said, I don't like cycling and I don't care about Armstrong, I do care when EVERY athlete is druggies but no one cares they choose to take down the better athletes... then people get all up in arms! Nah I don't know if he did threaten people or not but if he has that's definitely wrong and he should be punished. The crying about these supposed "clean" cyclist... well they know just as well as "you" do that everyone is on drugs, that's just the way it is... if they want things to be "fair", pick another profession! Lance and these other athletes who drug up still have to work very hard to be great at their job... if roids could make you amazing without work, everyone would do them... they help but they don't make you a 7 time champ!
People always want bigger and better in sports but get all high and mighty when they find out how the athletes get there!
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I think Armstrongs legacy wont be as tainted as some might think. Stripping Lnace Armstrong of his 7 titles is kinda like saying Bonds isnt the leading home run hitter of all time...
I mean, both happened, and both are true.
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The only difference between Armstrong and all the other cyclists is he is the quintessential narcissist who I think truly believed he could get away with his lifetime of lies.
This is one of the truest statements in this thread.
Here's a good read if you're interested, particularly if you think Lance is innocent...
http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30172302298/its-not-about-the-bike
And to those who are saying 'Lance has never failed a drug test', you really need to do your research. He's failed multiple tests throughout his career. The US cycling admin have kept results of tests hidden. They've tried to protect their image by protecting this scumbag but unfortunately when you roll the dice that many times, it catches up with you.
I was a big Lance fan until George Hinkappe (his long time team mate) testified against him to a US grand jury. That was the start of researching Lance doping history.
Freakish athlete, narcissist and public servant. Still a good old scumbag that got caught up in the cycling culture at the time and there's nothing he can do to go back and change it all.
Why is he a scumbag? What has he done to hurt ANYONE (that you know of)? Oh, he's a scumbag b/c he doped up? Well I hate to break it to you, "all" athletes dope up... when you realize that then you should not fault Lance for it... it is your own fault that you were fooled when it's clear that "all" of them do it! The greatest athletes of yesteryear all doped up but we just didn't have the test for those people... but it was well known that they did! Also, what is banned now are things that other people were "free" to use in the past... so now we make these people into villains when others got away with it!
I personally don't care that he doped up (or lied to protect his career), he didn't hurt anyone AND he helped a lot of sick people with the money he helped to raise!
Stop living in a fantasy world people!! There probably wouldn't be these huge sports and quality players without some aid, steroids or other illegal things! If they aren't hurting anyone and they are doing their jobs (entertaining), then where is the problem. Another thing, just b/c he doped up it doesn't mean he didn't have to work just as hard... remember, everyone else is doping too, so if everyone is doing it, just doing it won't get you the wins... you have to be/have more than the roids!
He's built his career on the notion that he's the only champion in modern cycling that built a dynasty on not cheating. PLUS he has used his cancer battle to make the story even more like a fairy tale to make more money. He's also threatened numerous other cyclists and tried to use his clean image to bury their careers.
I've been a serious cyclist in my time and once admired this bag of scum. Once you do a little research on the guy you start to see how self involved he is, but you let his arrogance slide because he's a 7X tour winner who does a boatload for cancer... Then you find out he's been conning you for years, you've bought his books, supported him and stayed up late to watch him ride in France.
The best way to appreciate his scumbag status is to read his books and see how many times he gloats, boasts and 'confirms' that he didn't cheat and how he tries to be a model for the sport blah blah blah.
Complete and utter scum-bucket full of puss is this human being.
LOL let him slide b/c he is a 7x champ? I do not watch or even like cycling!!! Cycling is just like NASCAR to me, a bunch of going round and round, BORING! He has raised a LOT of money for cancer... again, who has he hurt???? EVERY athlete has HUGE egos, you can't be good without one!! I don't care what he does as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else (I don't care about him hurting feelings)! Like I said, "all" athletes do some type of enhancements and "all" do so illegally but not many will get "caught"! You're just going to continue getting hurt feelings if you believe otherwise.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/zone-lance-armstrong-bully-downfall-article-1.1188512
Read this, documents him and his outfits' bullying and threatening (some death threats even being given) tactics. I understand you defending what he's done for cancer research, but threatening peoples' livelihoods definitely "hurts" people, and that's not even getting into his threats and intimidation tactics used toward those who wouldn't stay silent about his doping, and their respective families.
You sound like a pretty devout Armstrong supporter (for whatever reason) who's opinion won't be budged, but I think his tactics make him more than a scumbag and shows that he has indeed "hurt" people who wouldn't keep silent about his lying and drug abuse. Despite his humanitarian work, dude is an arrogant ass.
Like I said, I don't like cycling and I don't care about Armstrong, I do care when EVERY athlete is druggies but no one cares they choose to take down the better athletes... then people get all up in arms! Nah I don't know if he did threaten people or not but if he has that's definitely wrong and he should be punished. The crying about these supposed "clean" cyclist... well they know just as well as "you" do that everyone is on drugs, that's just the way it is... if they want things to be "fair", pick another profession! Lance and these other athletes who drug up still have to work very hard to be great at their job... if roids could make you amazing without work, everyone would do them... they help but they don't make you a 7 time champ!
People always want bigger and better in sports but get all high and mighty when they find out how the athletes get there!
I think you are missing the point. It isn't that Lance used. It isn't even that he lied about using. It is all the other stuff he did to coverup the usage, the positive tests, etc. Lance is a bad bad guy. He destroyed multiple careers just because people told the truth. That makes you a Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. of the highest order.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/questions-oprah-should-ask-lance-armstrong-230849439.html (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/questions-oprah-should-ask-lance-armstrong-230849439.html)