CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: snowball on June 03, 2012, 11:03:02 AM
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Doc better keep a lid on things !!
These two are hard line enforcers.
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Oh crap.
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And Marc Davis as the alternate ref! Ugh! I'm sure that if Crawford and Kennedy aren't enough, Willard will fake an injury and Davis will come in and destroy us.
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Considering all the controversy these refs have, why do we keep putting these controversial refs in?
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Does anyone know the winning % for the Heat when these guys refs? and more importantly the road winning % of the heat when these guys ref?
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We are screwed. I will be shocked if we win tonight.
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Does anyone know the winning % for the Heat when these guys refs? and more importantly the road winning % of the heat when these guys ref?
I'm shocked no one has researched this as of yet considering all of the controversy these refs have had. This is has been a very poorly officiated playoffs as a whole, not just for the Celtics. But the team who has been getting the most calls just happens to have 2 of the most marketable stars in the NBA...3-1 Heat tonight with this referee lineup unless Boston can create a lot of distance early.
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Crawford has been rather consistent in Celtics games lately, so I'm not too concerned with him. But Bill Kennedy is just a gigantic Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline., so that one kinda sucks.
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Oh noes, there we go. Hate those officials.
Eddy Maloy seems to be the only one this playoffs who is descent
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Oh noes, there we go. Hate those officials.
Eddy Maloy seems to be the only one this playoffs who is descent
Oh noes, there we go. Hate those officials.
Eddy Maloy seems to be the only one this playoffs who is descent
Ed Malloy is the worst, dude...
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Oh noes, there we go. Hate those officials.
Eddy Maloy seems to be the only one this playoffs who is descent
Oh noes, there we go. Hate those officials.
Eddy Maloy seems to be the only one this playoffs who is descent
Ed Malloy is the worst, dude...
I put Malloy 2nd... Marc Davis royaly screws us every time.
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We seem to be more worried by curly and moe than wade and james. This is where are concern should be.
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problem is that larry curly and moe will help james and wade by having them parade to the line for 30 FTS
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Marc Davis as a possible ref absolutely frightens me.
Joey Crawford, however angry he may be, is IMO one of the better refs. He doesn't fall for flopping much, which is what the Heat thrive on.
Bill Kennedy I'm not a fan of, but I think Joey could keep him in line a bit. But Marc Davis.. omg..
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Joey Crawford usually likes to make the game about him not the players and does that by seeing obvious calls differently..the Joey Crawford way. But he is also a strong homer..so who knows?? Would be nice to have predictable consistent refs but it is what it is.
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http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pageLoader.aspx?page=/data/nba/statistics/2011-2012/referee_ats.html (http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pageLoader.aspx?page=/data/nba/statistics/2011-2012/referee_ats.html)
That site tracks homer refs. It's a betting site, so the criteria is against the spread, but Miami is -2. Willard and Crawford are the 2 worst refs in the league for the Celtics tonight. And we all know Kennedy sucks.
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Joey Crawford usually likes to make the game about him not the players and does that by seeing obvious calls differently..the Joey Crawford way. But he is also a strong homer..so who knows?? Would be nice to have predictable consistent refs but it is what it is.
You guys are the only ones who have made this game about the refs so far.
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Terrific... ::)
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Joey Crawford usually likes to make the game about him not the players and does that by seeing obvious calls differently..the Joey Crawford way. But he is also a strong homer..so who knows?? Would be nice to have predictable consistent refs but it is what it is.
You guys are the only ones who have made this game about the refs so far.
well the heat have nothing to complain about, seeing as how the refs handed them game 2, and lebron and wade are Sterns's darlings, so I wouldn't expect them to make it about the refs.
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I expect both James and Wade to get to the line at least 10 times each. Especially after Wade didn't shoot any free throws in game 3 .
Hopefully they call it even both ways though..
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expect a lot of bogus fouls against us tonight. fantastic...
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I checked out games that Joe Crawford worked Celtic games a few years ago and found that Celtics lost 80% of games he worked ! I also noticed that on those games there was a above average amount of technical's which he made and almost 60% of those were recinded by the NBA. The NBA needs to do what the NFL & NHL does which is rate the refs. Poorly rated refs do not call playoff games. Joe Crawford needs to retire !
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What a joke.
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These guys are both clowns who would not have jobs in any other field because of incompetence.
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Stop crying! I don't care about the refs at all! We win if we are the better team.
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Expect a game of stoppages with no flow whatsover.
Joey likes his rest....
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But if the Celtics make it to the NBA Finals and play the Spurs, we want Joey Crawford reffing, right?
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http://deadspin.com/5915178/espns-brad-daugherty-promos-nba-playoff-game-as-paul-pierce--the-celtics-vs-lebron-james--the-officials (http://deadspin.com/5915178/espns-brad-daugherty-promos-nba-playoff-game-as-paul-pierce--the-celtics-vs-lebron-james--the-officials)
Even ESPN's Brad Daugherty says we're going against the refs tonight.
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Joey Crawford usually likes to make the game about him not the players and does that by seeing obvious calls differently..the Joey Crawford way. But he is also a strong homer..so who knows?? Would be nice to have predictable consistent refs but it is what it is.
You guys are the only ones who have made this game about the refs so far.
I do not believe in conspiracies..but I do believe in star power, players reputations (as to abilities and tendencies) influencing refs, make up calls, personal interpretations by refs, refs with bad habits and also the egos of some of the refs getting in the way of their job performance.
I consider Joey Crawford extremely egotistical, inconsistent, sometimes biased and therefore unreliable when it comes to being fair and impartial.
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Stern should issue a flagrant 2 foul on Joey Crawford and suspend him for as long as Ron Artest wants to be called Metta World Peace.
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I find it sad how now everytime you see a refs name you have to wonder whether or not a team will get proper treatment.
I have never seen a sport where fans know the name of the referee like they do in basketball.
I still think they can win this game if they come aggressive, have the whole team contribute and don't have it close scoring wise when it matters the most.
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I find it sad how now everytime you see a refs name you have to wonder whether or not a team will get proper treatment.
I have never seen a sport where fans know the name of the referee like they do in basketball.
I still think they can win this game if they come aggressive, have the whole team contribute and don't have it close scoring wise when it matters the most.
Or, if Joey Crawford gets locked in in his hotel room.
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The NBA won't change until David Stern is done. Its a league that plays to its stars and gives them the "star" treatment to an extreme.
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Crawford at home might actually help us, if I recall hes been pretty good to the celtics for the most part at TD. He is a huge homer after all haha
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Stop crying! I don't care about the refs at all! We win if we are the better team.
Explain Game 2!
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I agree that stars often get calls that are questionable, but I also very much believe that with guys like James and Wade a big part of it is that they are extremely good at drawing fouls. I have to admit that quite often if they get a head of steam going to the basket, the only way to stop them is to hack them.
Of course, the game plan for the Heat will include getting those guys to the line as often as possible. They are good at it. It works.
I certainly hope, though, that the refs "let 'em play" out there a little in this game, as I always do. I always think it's in the Celtics advantage when the games aren't called too tight.
Often I think teams can actually dictate how the game is called. For example, if the Celtics come out aggressive on D and show that they are moving their feet well and getting good position defensively, then I think that, more often than not, the refs are going to let them play D. On the other hand, if they are caught reacting and trying to catch up to plays all night, then they'll get in trouble with the whistles.
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I agree that stars often get calls that are questionable, but I also very much believe that with guys like James and Wade a big part of it is that they are extremely good at drawing fouls. I have to admit that quite often if they get a head of steam going to the basket, the only way to stop them is to hack them.
Of course, the game plan for the Heat will include getting those guys to the line as often as possible. They are good at it. It works.
I certainly hope, though, that the refs "let 'em play" out there a little in this game, as I always do. I always think it's in the Celtics advantage when the games that aren't called too tight.
Often I think teams can actually dictate how the game is called. For example, if the Celtics come out aggressive on D and show that they are moving their feet well and getting good position defensively, then I think that, more often than not, the refs are going to let them play D. On the other hand, if they are caught reacting and trying to catch up to plays all night, then they'll get in trouble with the whistles.
I know James and Lebron are great players and know how to draw fouls but I don't believe they should be allowed to do whatever they want on both ends of the floor. One only has to point to the very crucial rake across Rondo's face to point to things that should not be allowed. That kind of thing bothers me most. Lebron and Wade get away with this kind of 'defense' all the time!
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The NBA won't change until David Stern is done. Its a league that plays to its stars and gives them the "star" treatment to an extreme.
Even after Stern is gone, the NBA won't change until an expose brings them low--even the betting scandal they already had didn't change anything.
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The NBA won't change until David Stern is done. Its a league that plays to its stars and gives them the "star" treatment to an extreme.
Even after Stern is gone, the NBA won't change until an expose brings them low--even the betting scandal they already had didn't change anything.
If they were able to out more refs it would have. I don't think there was much digging into other refs when the scandal broke.
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The NBA won't change until David Stern is done. Its a league that plays to its stars and gives them the "star" treatment to an extreme.
Even after Stern is gone, the NBA won't change until an expose brings them low--even the betting scandal they already had didn't change anything.
There is a prophecy, that one day a child will be born in the shadow of Seacacus.
That he will be The Russell reborn, and there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth.
And he shall break the world again by his coming,
tearing apart all ties that bind.
Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us,
yet shall the Russell Reborn confront the LeBron at the Last Battle,
and his hard, clean fouls shall give us the Light.
Let tears flow, O ye fans of the league.
Weep for your salvation.
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The NBA won't change until David Stern is done. Its a league that plays to its stars and gives them the "star" treatment to an extreme.
Even after Stern is gone, the NBA won't change until an expose brings them low--even the betting scandal they already had didn't change anything.
There is a prophecy, that one day a child will be born in the shadow of Seacacus.
That he will be The Russell reborn, and there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth.
And he shall break the world again by his coming,
tearing apart all ties that bind.
Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us,
yet shall the Russell Reborn confront the LeBron at the Last Battle,
and his hard, clean fouls shall give us the Light.
Let tears flow, O ye fans of the league.
Weep for your salvation.
TP -- love it!
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I agree that stars often get calls that are questionable, but I also very much believe that with guys like James and Wade a big part of it is that they are extremely good at drawing fouls. I have to admit that quite often if they get a head of steam going to the basket, the only way to stop them is to hack them.
Of course, the game plan for the Heat will include getting those guys to the line as often as possible. They are good at it. It works.
I certainly hope, though, that the refs "let 'em play" out there a little in this game, as I always do. I always think it's in the Celtics advantage when the games that aren't called too tight.
Often I think teams can actually dictate how the game is called. For example, if the Celtics come out aggressive on D and show that they are moving their feet well and getting good position defensively, then I think that, more often than not, the refs are going to let them play D. On the other hand, if they are caught reacting and trying to catch up to plays all night, then they'll get in trouble with the whistles.
I know James and Lebron are great players and know how to draw fouls but I don't believe they should be allowed to do whatever they want on both ends of the floor. One only has to point to the very crucial rake across Rondo's face to point to things that should not be allowed. That kind of thing bothers me most. Lebron and Wade get away with this kind of 'defense' all the time!
this.
everyone I've seen post here (and other sites) that says Bron and Wade are always driving/superior athletes/difficult to properly guard/etc... always fail to pay any attention to the lack of calls on them when they play D. These guys foul just as much as any other NBA player but are never called for it except for the blatant fouls (and even then, they sometimes get a free pass --> Wade's foul on Rondo in Game 2 OT is a prime example).
If the C's got the same treatment as Bron and Wade when they drive the lane, there'd still be complaints but far less since the officiating would then be more consistent in how the plays are called on both ends
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Official Report
Joe Crawford
Playoff games as lead official - 10
Home team win % - 70%
42.7 fouls called per game
46.6% of fouls called on home team
1.3 technicals called per game
Over more than three decades in the NBA, Joe Crawford has officiated 2,402 regular season and 278 playoff games, including 46 NBA Finals games. Crawford’s 278 playoff and 46 NBA Finals games are the most among active NBA officials. Over his career, Crawford has officiated the 1986, 1992 and 2000 NBA All-Star Games, as well as the 1993 McDonald’s Championship in Munich, Germany. There is no shortage of controversy surrounding Joey Crawford, the biggest of which was a suspension for tossing Tim Duncan for laughing on the bench and then challenging him to a fight. He is known for his quickness to call technical fouls but also doesn't tend to be influenced by the home crowd as much as many younger refs seem to be. In the 2008 Playoffs, Crawford was chosen to officiate Game 4 of the Western Conference final between the San Antonio Spurs and the Los Angeles Lakers. In the closing seconds of the game, there was a no-call where the Spurs' Brent Barry was unquestionably fouled by Derek Fisher. Crawford was the closest official to the call, and the NBA later apologized for the lack of a call. Crawford was also one of the refs who was involved in the income tax evasion convictions and was suspended at that time as well. This is the Celtics 7th game with Crawford this season. He officiated the Christmas day loss to the Knicks, third Wizards game, and the win over the Cavs, and the April 1 game vs the Heat, all of which were well officiated. He also called the Lakers game in LA where the Celtics shot 12 free throws to 26 for the Lakers and they let the Lakers get away with a lot of contact the entire game and the Celtics not so much. He called game 4 vs the Hawks where the Celtics shot 13 free throws to 17 for the Celtics and the refs pretty much let them play. He also called game 6 of the Philly series where the Celtics shot 23 free throws to 28 for the Sixers and the officials called it fairly. The Celtics are 4-3 this season and 6-4 in their last 10 games with Crawford. The Heat are 2-3 this season and 4-6 in their last 10 with Crawford . His home W/L record this season is 31-28 and he's not easily influenced by the home crowd.
Bill Kennedy
Playoff games as crew official - 8
Home team win % - 62.5%
40.0 fouls called per game
48.3% of fouls called on home team
1.3 technicals called per game
Kennedy’s 13 seasons of NBA officiating experience include 814 regular season and 42 playoff games including 3 Finals games. In addition to his NBA experience, Kennedy has 5 years officiating experience in the CBA, including working the 1996 and 1997 CBA Finals. He also officiated 2 games in the WNBA Finals in 1998, and has 15 years of high school officiating experience in Arizona. Celtics fans will remember Kennedy's run in with Doc Rivers that resulted in both of them being fined. Yes, David Stern fined one of his precious refs and certainly, Kennedy hasn't forgotten. Here is how Doc described the incident:
"[Kennedy] stood there and goaded me and goaded me and goaded me and stared at me," Rivers said. "Look at the film. I actually walked away. He asked me, 'Where do you want the ball?' And I said, 'Ask them,' talking about our players. That's my right to say that, and I walked away. He stood there and stared me down and stared me down and goaded me until I turned around and said, 'What?' That's when I got thrown out of the game."
Doc was fined for criticizing a referee, but since the league fined Kennedy, they as much as admitted that Doc's criticism was deserved. Go figure. According to Tim Donaghy, Bill Kennedy is gay and his beef with Doc stems from Doc questioning his sexual orientation. The Celtics are 2-2 with Kennedy this season. The win was at Indiana where the Pacers shot 31 free throws to 14 for the Celtics. When the Pacers were down 7, Kennedy called a bogus flagrant foul on Pietrus that gave the Pacers 2 shots and the ball. And if that wasn't enough he called another technical on Pietrus for taunting on that same play. In a 7 point game with 34 seconds to go, they handed the Pacers 5 points. Much was said about Kennedy's past with Doc before game 6 with Atlanta but that game was well officiated, with the Celtics getting some big calls down the stretch. Kennedy got the Celtics back in the next game, however as in game 4 of the Philly series, the Celtics shot 19 free throws to 36 for the Sixers and every questionable call was in favor of the Sixers. The Celtics are 6-4 over their last 10 games with Kennedy on the court. The Heat are 4-0 this season and 7-3 in their last 10 games with Kennedy. His home W/L record this season is 35-24.
Greg Willard
Playoff games as crew official - 2
Home team win % - 100%
41.5 fouls called per game
45.8% of fouls called on home team
0.0 technicals called per game
Greg Willard has officiated 1,464 regular season, 124 playoff, and two
Finals games since joining the NBA officiating staff 23 seasons ago. Prior to joining the NBA, Willard spent four years officiating in the CBA and has four years of collegiate officiating experience in the PCAA and Pac-10 Conferences. He is known for being wildly inconsistent in calling charges and blocks. The Celtics are 4-1 this season and 8-2 over their last 10 games with Willard on the court. He called the second of the Wizards games that the Celtics won In which the Celtics were called for 23 fouls compared to 17 for the Wizards. He also called the loss vs Phoenix where the Celtics shot just 9 free throws to 16 for the Suns. He also called the win vs Chicago where the Celtics shot 26 free throws to 24 for the Bulls. The last game he officiated for the Celtics in the regular season was against the Bobcats where the Celtics shot 17 free throws to 20 for the Bobcats. All 4 games were called pretty well. He called just one playoff game so far for the Celtics and that was game 1 vs the Sixers where the Celtics shot 19 free throws and the Sixers shot 20 free throws. The game was also well officiated. The Heat are 4-1 this season and 8-2 in their last 10. He's another ref who is not influenced by the home crowd and has a home W/L record this season of 30-30.
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If the C's got the same treatment as Bron and Wade when they drive the lane, there'd still be complaints but far less since the officiating would then be more consistent in how the plays are called on both ends
NBA officiating used to be relatively consistent. Stars got calls. Rookies did not. Refs tended to give the benefit of the doubt to the more aggressive team and swallow their whistles at big moments unless there was something really blatant. "Make up calls" were pretty standard. It wasn't great, but it was something to which players and teams could adjust.
Now, it's a complete mess with arbitrary fouls being called or not called without rhyme or reason. I'm not sure if its an after effect of the Pistons/Heat era when refs risked fouling out players in the first quarter if they called the game consistently. The result, however, is such unbelievably bad calls that fans can't help but think their team is being screwed.
Mike
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--WnJFO4x50Q/Tle3NleV1NI/AAAAAAAABBk/xLVzbJLOccY/s1600/ouch-p5hrh1.jpeg)
The Scotsman must be fuming.
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Oh crap.
Oh crap is right. The only thing missing tonight is Ed Rush. Expect another lopsided free throw affair favoring the Heat.
My only hope is we don't get in early foul trouble. Don't need the game getting out of hand early.
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Hard to believe but I'll take Joe Crawford over Bill Kennedy that is how BAD this duo is :'(
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well...lets see how the game gets called tonight. needless to say, this isn't a positive development. if we see a lot of bogus calls, this ref assignment will clearly be seen as (and probably is) a blatant attempt by the league to make sure the heat go up 3-1 so that they will end up in the finals. if we win tonight, i think we have a pretty decent shot of beating miami in the series.
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Stop crying! I don't care about the refs at all! We win if we are the better team.
Explain Game 2!
Second chance opportunities. Heat had plenty of those in OT.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1131847-why-joey-crawford-is-the-worst-referee-in-the-nba-and-he-is-getting-worse
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The Scotsman IS fuming.
www.clnsradio.com
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1131847-why-joey-crawford-is-the-worst-referee-in-the-nba-and-he-is-getting-worse
Pretty weak piece. Zero empirical evidence.
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Stop crying! I don't care about the refs at all! We win if we are the better team.
Explain Game 2!
Second chance opportunities. Heat had plenty of those in OT.
Explain the refs missing the blatantly obvious rake across Rondos face! They would not have missed this if one of the Celtics had done it to a Heat player. There is no justification that can be made for that in a very close game. Both teams did not play perfect buyt one team was able to get the calls when they did not deserve them. I refuse to condone refs being allowed to call things differently on different ends of the floor. A foul should be foul on both sides. Until this is corrected I will still complain about it whether it happens againt the C's or any other team.
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I'm more worried about Kennedy and Willard than I am Uncle Fester.
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The HEAT got a lot of calls last year until the finals then the refs stopped helping them because of public outcry. I hope our emails work the same thing and get us a balanced call game.
5 technicals was not balanced. 49-20+ FTAs was not balanced. Last game was decent I thought, too much for us in the 1st and them in the 4th but 2nd and 3rd were not bad. I don't want the refs to help us but I don't want them to help MIA either.