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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Moranis on April 30, 2012, 09:27:09 AM

Title: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on April 30, 2012, 09:27:09 AM
He is far too immature and emotional to take this team where it needs to go in the post big 3 era.  He is incredibly talented, but his attitude will always hold him back.  He can't be the man on a title or team and I question whether he can really even be the 2nd or 3rd man on a title team, because he just isn't reliable or consistent as a result of the attitude.  I've had these concerns for awhile, but last night really crystalized it for me.  You can't get a technical in that spot, nonetheless two technicals, an ejection, and a likely a suspension.  It is unacceptable and should never be tolerated.  But that is just Rondo.  It is the way he always is and the way he will always be.  The emotion certainly is beneficial at times, but it is a negative far too often.  It is time to move on from Rajon Rondo and his attitude.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on April 30, 2012, 09:30:26 AM
Yup, just like we should have traded Pierce immediately after game 6 in 2005.

http://www.nba.com/games/20050505/BOSIND/recap.html

Guy could never lead the team anywhere, did you see the ridiculous press conference? Keeping that immature player has killed the franchise for the last 7 years.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Roy H. on April 30, 2012, 09:36:44 AM
The good Rondo brings is a lot more than the bad.  His two techs and ejection ended any hope we had last night, but without Rondo we wouldn't have closed the gap in the first place.

I agree that bumping a ref is unacceptable.  At the same time, who are you going to trade him for that can bring even 85% of what he does?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: rondohondo on April 30, 2012, 09:38:37 AM
Yup, just like we should have traded Pierce immediately after game 6 in 2005.

http://www.nba.com/games/20050505/BOSIND/recap.html

Guy could never lead the team anywhere, did you see the ridiculous press conference? Keeping that immature player has killed the franchise for the last 7 years.

tp

Rondo was p---ed from the play before where Josh Smith clearly tipped the ball out right in front of the same Ref who then called a bail out foul on Bass. No doubt Rondo lost his cool, but you can't say you wouldn't do the same thing in a game where you were down 19 in the 3rd and cut it down 4. Those were 2 horrible calls thathappened right in front of Rondo and the ref.

PP has acted just as immature throughout his career . Some people on here just want to trade Rondo because he is not cp3. Rondo is as good as it gets after cp3 and is signed on a great contract. You don't trade a top 25 players unless you are getting a great draft pick or top 20 player back.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: wdleehi on April 30, 2012, 09:40:03 AM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: rondohondo on April 30, 2012, 09:41:36 AM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value.  

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score and getting everyone on the team involved in the offense.  ::)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: wdleehi on April 30, 2012, 09:43:20 AM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 


Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: hpantazo on April 30, 2012, 09:44:56 AM
the celtics should never trade Rondo. He is a true celtic and a great competitor. Watch the old celtics in playoff games, they were much worse than Rondo in yelling at refs and fighting. The thought of trading him for this is absurd.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on April 30, 2012, 09:45:45 AM
The good Rondo brings is a lot more than the bad.  His two techs and ejection ended any hope we had last night, but without Rondo we wouldn't have closed the gap in the first place.

I agree that bumping a ref is unacceptable.  At the same time, who are you going to trade him for that can bring even 85% of what he does?
+1

Beyond the sarcasm trading Rondo immediately only makes sense if you want to be the Bobcats and pray you get the ping pong balls to go your way a year where a franchise guy is coming out. (instead of Bogut/Bargs/Martin/etc...)

Depending on how the playoffs turn out the market for him is going to be depressed, and we'd be getting less value that what he brings on the court. You have to hope he figures things out, other players have before. (and even more haven't)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: pearljammer10 on April 30, 2012, 09:50:07 AM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 




Rondo was the only player who showed up last night. Dumb move that lowers his trade value. Possibly. But to say that he lose this game for us is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: MBz on April 30, 2012, 09:52:33 AM
The good Rondo brings is a lot more than the bad.  His two techs and ejection ended any hope we had last night, but without Rondo we wouldn't have closed the gap in the first place.

I agree that bumping a ref is unacceptable.  At the same time, who are you going to trade him for that can bring even 85% of what he does?

That's the problem.  Trading him for Chris Paul made sense, but I'm not sure if you could really get a stud PG back for Rondo.  You may be able to do something with like Denver getting a package involving Ty Lawson and someone like Kenneth Faried, but I'm not really sure that equals Rondo's value.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Chris on April 30, 2012, 09:58:09 AM
Celtics need to trade Rondo, when they can get great value for him.  If that's this summer, great, if not, then bide your time.  The C's need assets for their rebuilding/reloading, so it will do them no good to trade their best asset for 50 cents on the dollar, just because he has issues, just like 50% of the league.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on April 30, 2012, 09:58:48 AM
The good Rondo brings is a lot more than the bad.  His two techs and ejection ended any hope we had last night, but without Rondo we wouldn't have closed the gap in the first place.

I agree that bumping a ref is unacceptable.  At the same time, who are you going to trade him for that can bring even 85% of what he does?


Roy is spot on here. Plus didn't we learn this very year that there are no takers who are willing to give us anything near similar value for the kid?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on April 30, 2012, 10:05:10 AM
The good Rondo brings is a lot more than the bad.  His two techs and ejection ended any hope we had last night, but without Rondo we wouldn't have closed the gap in the first place.

I agree that bumping a ref is unacceptable.  At the same time, who are you going to trade him for that can bring even 85% of what he does?
I'd move him for draft picks and start over.  I don't think he can be a player to build around.  As a small guard his building around opportunities are already limited, but as a small guard with an attitude problem that historically takes long stretches off and is incredibly inconsistent, winning isn't sustainable with him.  

Next season Boston should just flat out tank and get as many pieces as they can to use in the draft or otherwise.  

Trade Rondo to a team like Phoenix, Utah, Portland, etc. and pick up a lottery pick.  Or maybe you pick up Evans from Sacramento for him (or something like that).  Jack, Henry, and the worst lottery pick of New Orleans for Rondo works.  

There are plenty of trades out there, where the Celtics, while not getting 100 cents on the dollar, won't get 50 cents on the dollar either.  
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: MBz on April 30, 2012, 10:10:08 AM
The good Rondo brings is a lot more than the bad.  His two techs and ejection ended any hope we had last night, but without Rondo we wouldn't have closed the gap in the first place.

I agree that bumping a ref is unacceptable.  At the same time, who are you going to trade him for that can bring even 85% of what he does?
I'd move him for draft picks and start over.  I don't think he can be a player to build around.  As a small guard his building around opportunities are already limited, but as a small guard with an attitude problem that historically takes long stretches off and is incredibly inconsistent, winning isn't sustainable with him.  

Next season Boston should just flat out tank and get as many pieces as they can to use in the draft or otherwise.  

Trade Rondo to a team like Phoenix, Utah, Portland, etc. and pick up a lottery pick.  Or maybe you pick up Evans from Sacramento for him (or something like that).  Jack, Henry, and the worst lottery pick of New Orleans for Rondo works.  

There are plenty of trades out there, where the Celtics, while not getting 100 cents on the dollar, won't get 50 cents on the dollar either.  

Here's the thing if we tank, first off we need to let KG and Allen go.  Second youre probably trading Pierce and Rondo.  That's going to create a lot of cap space, but I believe you need to spend a minimum amount, you can't just hold that cap space.  So if we did that, we'd probably end up having to give a few bad contracts out to fill that space which may end up hurting us more. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CelticG1 on April 30, 2012, 10:18:57 AM
I don't think we should trade him unless for a superstar and I don't think that really lowers his trade value especially after the season he had.

KG got suspended in playoffs 2 years ago Pierce got ejected in playoffs last year don't think that lowered their trade value.

Rondo isn't really a hot head. I think Gms are more concerned about him bringing his game night in and night out rather than a couple of these incidents. Id be surprised if a gm shied away because of something like this. I know id be ticked at Danny if he the shying away because of something like thay
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on April 30, 2012, 10:44:36 AM
The good Rondo brings is a lot more than the bad.  His two techs and ejection ended any hope we had last night, but without Rondo we wouldn't have closed the gap in the first place.

I agree that bumping a ref is unacceptable.  At the same time, who are you going to trade him for that can bring even 85% of what he does?
I'd move him for draft picks and start over.  I don't think he can be a player to build around.  As a small guard his building around opportunities are already limited, but as a small guard with an attitude problem that historically takes long stretches off and is incredibly inconsistent, winning isn't sustainable with him.  

Next season Boston should just flat out tank and get as many pieces as they can to use in the draft or otherwise.  

Trade Rondo to a team like Phoenix, Utah, Portland, etc. and pick up a lottery pick.  Or maybe you pick up Evans from Sacramento for him (or something like that).  Jack, Henry, and the worst lottery pick of New Orleans for Rondo works.  

There are plenty of trades out there, where the Celtics, while not getting 100 cents on the dollar, won't get 50 cents on the dollar either.  

Here's the thing if we tank, first off we need to let KG and Allen go.  Second youre probably trading Pierce and Rondo.  That's going to create a lot of cap space, but I believe you need to spend a minimum amount, you can't just hold that cap space.  So if we did that, we'd probably end up having to give a few bad contracts out to fill that space which may end up hurting us more. 
You can sign players to one year contracts.  Give Jeff Green 1 year, 6 million (or whatever, and other moves like that).  You don't have to sign guys to gigantic long term contracts to reach the minimum.  One year deals are fine and if guys work out, just bring them back the next year.  You can also take flyers on guys like Greg Oden.

I wouldn't bring back Allen or Garnett regardless (and frankly I don't think they come back as if they play it will be on a contender, something Boston is not).  I'd have no issue trading Pierce, though he may retire anyway. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BballTim on April 30, 2012, 10:56:46 AM
Yup, just like we should have traded Pierce immediately after game 6 in 2005.

http://www.nba.com/games/20050505/BOSIND/recap.html

Guy could never lead the team anywhere, did you see the ridiculous press conference? Keeping that immature player has killed the franchise for the last 7 years.

  Don't forget the noted diva Kobe Bryant. You just can't win games with people who behave like that.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Tai on April 30, 2012, 10:59:57 AM
Is it wrong to consider this topic borderline trolling, if not full-fledged?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on April 30, 2012, 11:04:57 AM
Is it wrong to consider this topic borderline trolling, if not full-fledged?
Yes, it would be wrong.

Moranis has held the opinion we need to trade Rondo to move on with a rebuild for quite some time. I can't blame him for finding further reason for his previously held thoughts in this awful outburst of immaturity.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on April 30, 2012, 11:06:20 AM
Yup, just like we should have traded Pierce immediately after game 6 in 2005.

http://www.nba.com/games/20050505/BOSIND/recap.html

Guy could never lead the team anywhere, did you see the ridiculous press conference? Keeping that immature player has killed the franchise for the last 7 years.

  Don't forget the noted diva Kobe Bryant. You just can't win games with people who behave like that.

Or Bynum, Howard, etc..

Talent trumps this sort of outburst in the end, I think this is more a matter of how Moranis views Rondos talent than his attitude.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on April 30, 2012, 11:12:03 AM
The good Rondo brings is a lot more than the bad.  His two techs and ejection ended any hope we had last night, but without Rondo we wouldn't have closed the gap in the first place.

I agree that bumping a ref is unacceptable.  At the same time, who are you going to trade him for that can bring even 85% of what he does?
I'd move him for draft picks and start over.  I don't think he can be a player to build around.  As a small guard his building around opportunities are already limited, but as a small guard with an attitude problem that historically takes long stretches off and is incredibly inconsistent, winning isn't sustainable with him.  

Next season Boston should just flat out tank and get as many pieces as they can to use in the draft or otherwise.  

Trade Rondo to a team like Phoenix, Utah, Portland, etc. and pick up a lottery pick.  Or maybe you pick up Evans from Sacramento for him (or something like that).  Jack, Henry, and the worst lottery pick of New Orleans for Rondo works.  

There are plenty of trades out there, where the Celtics, while not getting 100 cents on the dollar, won't get 50 cents on the dollar either.  



What about Dragic a first rounder and pieces? Personally i'd stay far far away from Evans. When you have a team like the Kings who is actually considering Terrence Williams as a suitable replacement for the guy you know there's gotta be some major issues behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: slamtheking on April 30, 2012, 11:12:25 AM
He is far too immature and emotional to take this team where it needs to go in the post big 3 era.  He is incredibly talented, but his attitude will always hold him back.  He can't be the man on a title or team and I question whether he can really even be the 2nd or 3rd man on a title team, because he just isn't reliable or consistent as a result of the attitude.  I've had these concerns for awhile, but last night really crystalized it for me.  You can't get a technical in that spot, nonetheless two technicals, an ejection, and a likely a suspension.  It is unacceptable and should never be tolerated.  But that is just Rondo.  It is the way he always is and the way he will always be.  The emotion certainly is beneficial at times, but it is a negative far too often.  It is time to move on from Rajon Rondo and his attitude.
::)

please.   he's the only starter that showed up to play last night.  He's finally at the level of consistency we've been waiting for.  He's not going anywhere.  His behavior, while foolish even if it was in the heat of the moment, is no worse than other players who've had a moment of stupidity in the game.

If anything, he should have pulled that bump on KG, PP or Bass for not showing up to play last night. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: soap07 on April 30, 2012, 11:12:59 AM
Rondo should only be traded for good value and if there's a way to get Deron in here, you've got to trade Rondo.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: nickagneta on April 30, 2012, 11:14:07 AM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 



Here's the honest truth...GMs in this league do not place value on a player based on one game unless that game is The Brawl at the Palace.

Thinking Rondo's trade value decreased because he bumped a ref is ridiculous and absurd.

What lowers Rondo's trade value is his at times lack of effort on defense, his horrid free throw shooting, and his lack of an ability to hit outside shots consistently every game.

But bumping a ref in one game is not going to change his value in ANY GM's mind in this league.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BballTim on April 30, 2012, 11:20:28 AM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 



Here's the honest truth...GMs in this league do not place value on a player based on one game unless that game is The Brawl at the Palace.

Thinking Rondo's trade value decreased because he bumped a ref is ridiculous and absurd.

What lowers Rondo's trade value is his at times lack of effort on defense, his horrid free throw shooting, and his lack of an ability to hit outside shots consistently every game.

But bumping a ref in one game is not going to change his value in ANY GM's mind in this league.

  The fact that the coaches and GMs by and large consider Rondo to be one of the best defensive pgs in the game would imply that his effort on defense does a lot more to raise his trade value than lower it.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: wdleehi on April 30, 2012, 11:23:06 AM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 



Here's the honest truth...GMs in this league do not place value on a player based on one game unless that game is The Brawl at the Palace.

Thinking Rondo's trade value decreased because he bumped a ref is ridiculous and absurd.

What lowers Rondo's trade value is his at times lack of effort on defense, his horrid free throw shooting, and his lack of an ability to hit outside shots consistently every game.

But bumping a ref in one game is not going to change his value in ANY GM's mind in this league.


Change his value, no.


Change how much teams will offer, yes.



For all the good things Rondo did last night, it became meaningless the moment he decided to get two technical fouls at the end of the 4th quarter.  


He gave the team ahead extra FTs.

He took himself out of the game.


He threw away the Celtics comeback because he couldn't keep his emotions in hand with the official.


The Celtics will not get even talent value for Rondo.  
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: blink on April 30, 2012, 11:24:41 AM
I think we should trade this tread instead.  Typical overreaction.
SMH...
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: KGs Knee on April 30, 2012, 11:27:41 AM
Is it wrong to consider this topic borderline trolling, if not full-fledged?

It was my first thought when seeing this thread.

It may not be the case, but it is definitely way out there.

I guess it par for the course though, there have been numerous over the top threads popping up ever since this happend last night.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Donoghus on April 30, 2012, 11:46:35 AM
I wouldn't.   

What could you get for him right now that would be an equal return?  My guess is that you're gonna get a return that is something along the lines of 50 cents or 75 cents on the dollar?

No thanks.  Perhaps you trade him down the road but I'm not doing it this summer and certainly not after this incident.  Its a kneejerk reaction, IMO.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Marcus13 on April 30, 2012, 11:52:13 AM
No, thanks.  I have my beefs with Rondo but he is undoubtedly a top 4 Point Guard in the NBA and you aren't going to get equal value for him.

He is really going to struggle next season though if we don't add a big-time scorer to the roster.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: nickagneta on April 30, 2012, 11:54:28 AM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 



Here's the honest truth...GMs in this league do not place value on a player based on one game unless that game is The Brawl at the Palace.

Thinking Rondo's trade value decreased because he bumped a ref is ridiculous and absurd.

What lowers Rondo's trade value is his at times lack of effort on defense, his horrid free throw shooting, and his lack of an ability to hit outside shots consistently every game.

But bumping a ref in one game is not going to change his value in ANY GM's mind in this league.


Change his value, no.


Change how much teams will offer, yes.



For all the good things Rondo did last night, it became meaningless the moment he decided to get two technical fouls at the end of the 4th quarter.  


He gave the team ahead extra FTs.

He took himself out of the game.


He threw away the Celtics comeback because he couldn't keep his emotions in hand with the official.


The Celtics will not get even talent value for Rondo.  
If you offer less for a player because of what occurred in a game you are lowering your perceived value of the player. Or you are a really bad negotiator that doesn't understand that the owner of Rondo's contract isn't going to suddenly take less because he bumped a ref.

Again, the concept is ridiculous and absurd. The NBA doesn't work that way. Heck, the business world doesn't work that way.

Its like saying a house has less value because the walls inside are painted an ugly blue instead of a neutral colored beige and that people will offer less for the house based on the color of the paint on the walls inside.

Its like saying the value of a car is less because of the tread on the tires or that someone would offer you less on a Corvette because the tires are a bit worn.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics4ever on April 30, 2012, 11:59:28 AM
I think Rondo and Bradley are a nice start to rebuild.   One is a assist master and the other a decent off guard.  Both can defend and one is light's out on D.

I would like to see us draft two bigs that can run the floor and resign KG for Center.   Maybe Royce White as one of the runners.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: nickagneta on April 30, 2012, 12:02:53 PM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 



Here's the honest truth...GMs in this league do not place value on a player based on one game unless that game is The Brawl at the Palace.

Thinking Rondo's trade value decreased because he bumped a ref is ridiculous and absurd.

What lowers Rondo's trade value is his at times lack of effort on defense, his horrid free throw shooting, and his lack of an ability to hit outside shots consistently every game.

But bumping a ref in one game is not going to change his value in ANY GM's mind in this league.

  The fact that the coaches and GMs by and large consider Rondo to be one of the best defensive pgs in the game would imply that his effort on defense does a lot more to raise his trade value than lower it.

I'm with you BBall. I think he has awesome trade value and I don't want to move him. I also think he's a great defender. My point is if a GM is going to devalue Rondo its for the points I made not because he bumped a ref.

Seriously is Andrew Bynum's trade value less because he clocked JJ Barea?

Is Howard's trade value less because he once was suspended for a high elbow on Samuel Dalambert?

Do player's values decrease because they rack up technicals arguing with refs or getting fined for criticizing refs?

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BballTim on April 30, 2012, 12:05:09 PM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 



Here's the honest truth...GMs in this league do not place value on a player based on one game unless that game is The Brawl at the Palace.

Thinking Rondo's trade value decreased because he bumped a ref is ridiculous and absurd.

What lowers Rondo's trade value is his at times lack of effort on defense, his horrid free throw shooting, and his lack of an ability to hit outside shots consistently every game.

But bumping a ref in one game is not going to change his value in ANY GM's mind in this league.


Change his value, no.


Change how much teams will offer, yes.



For all the good things Rondo did last night, it became meaningless the moment he decided to get two technical fouls at the end of the 4th quarter.  


He gave the team ahead extra FTs.

He took himself out of the game.


He threw away the Celtics comeback because he couldn't keep his emotions in hand with the official.


The Celtics will not get even talent value for Rondo.  

  So every player who's antics hurt a team in a playoff game (KG, PP, Kobe, LeBron, Amare, Ewing, Pippen, et al) all see their trade value drop because of it?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: ChainSmokingLikeDino on April 30, 2012, 12:09:56 PM
No.
Never.

The idea that his trade value plummets because of this game is absurd. Is it not equaled out by playing with a dislocated elbow last year?

The reactionary nature of these sentiments boggles the mind. If this incident only reinforces your long held opinions, fine, but to see it swaying someone on the fence seems far fetched and to put any great importance on it beyond the present also enrages (this is in no way the nail in the coffin or any such thing).

I want Rondo here for the long haul.
Ugh, this debate has gone on endlessly, and probably will continue for years. I don't think either side is being swayed anyways....But all the too immature, he is an embarrassment to The Celtics stuff rankles with how absurd it feels to me. The Captain, DJ, Parish, etc etc all could have been tarnished with this very same brush.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: wdleehi on April 30, 2012, 12:21:05 PM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 



Here's the honest truth...GMs in this league do not place value on a player based on one game unless that game is The Brawl at the Palace.

Thinking Rondo's trade value decreased because he bumped a ref is ridiculous and absurd.

What lowers Rondo's trade value is his at times lack of effort on defense, his horrid free throw shooting, and his lack of an ability to hit outside shots consistently every game.

But bumping a ref in one game is not going to change his value in ANY GM's mind in this league.


Change his value, no.


Change how much teams will offer, yes.



For all the good things Rondo did last night, it became meaningless the moment he decided to get two technical fouls at the end of the 4th quarter.  


He gave the team ahead extra FTs.

He took himself out of the game.


He threw away the Celtics comeback because he couldn't keep his emotions in hand with the official.


The Celtics will not get even talent value for Rondo.  

  So every player who's antics hurt a team in a playoff game (KG, PP, Kobe, LeBron, Amare, Ewing, Pippen, et al) all see their trade value drop because of it?



Yes,


Remember how Pierce's value across the league dipped after that Pacer's series. 


No one said the value can not be recovered.  It is just a bad idea to trade a player after events that lower value. 


If you are going to trade a player, you do during a hot streak.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: angryguy77 on April 30, 2012, 12:25:33 PM
He made a bad decision, that's not reason to trade him.

People have such short memories of the great games he had in the playoffs, especially during the run to the finals we had two years ago.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: bopna on April 30, 2012, 12:30:34 PM
UNbelievable.....thats all I could say.

Threads like these just makes me vomit as a Celticsfan.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: JSD on April 30, 2012, 12:33:14 PM
Blowing it up, trading anyone, or moving on from anyone should rest soley on how these playoffs end up. If they get knocked out anywhere short of the ECF game 6 or 7 it's time to go a different direction in general.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CelticG1 on April 30, 2012, 12:35:29 PM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 



Here's the honest truth...GMs in this league do not place value on a player based on one game unless that game is The Brawl at the Palace.

Thinking Rondo's trade value decreased because he bumped a ref is ridiculous and absurd.

What lowers Rondo's trade value is his at times lack of effort on defense, his horrid free throw shooting, and his lack of an ability to hit outside shots consistently every game.

But bumping a ref in one game is not going to change his value in ANY GM's mind in this league.


Change his value, no.


Change how much teams will offer, yes.



For all the good things Rondo did last night, it became meaningless the moment he decided to get two technical fouls at the end of the 4th quarter.  


He gave the team ahead extra FTs.

He took himself out of the game.


He threw away the Celtics comeback because he couldn't keep his emotions in hand with the official.


The Celtics will not get even talent value for Rondo.  

  So every player who's antics hurt a team in a playoff game (KG, PP, Kobe, LeBron, Amare, Ewing, Pippen, et al) all see their trade value drop because of it?



Yes,


Remember how Pierce's value across the league dipped after that Pacer's series. 


No one said the value can not be recovered.  It is just a bad idea to trade a player after events that lower value. 


If you are going to trade a player, you do during a hot streak.

That's an extremely short sighted and predictable way of looking at it.

If a GM is going to offer less to Danny for Rondo because of last night, that gm is A. Stupid for thinking Danny values him less or B. Stupid for letting that minor incident get in the way of acquiring a star player in this league.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: wdleehi on April 30, 2012, 12:39:08 PM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 



Here's the honest truth...GMs in this league do not place value on a player based on one game unless that game is The Brawl at the Palace.

Thinking Rondo's trade value decreased because he bumped a ref is ridiculous and absurd.

What lowers Rondo's trade value is his at times lack of effort on defense, his horrid free throw shooting, and his lack of an ability to hit outside shots consistently every game.

But bumping a ref in one game is not going to change his value in ANY GM's mind in this league.


Change his value, no.


Change how much teams will offer, yes.



For all the good things Rondo did last night, it became meaningless the moment he decided to get two technical fouls at the end of the 4th quarter.  


He gave the team ahead extra FTs.

He took himself out of the game.


He threw away the Celtics comeback because he couldn't keep his emotions in hand with the official.


The Celtics will not get even talent value for Rondo.  

  So every player who's antics hurt a team in a playoff game (KG, PP, Kobe, LeBron, Amare, Ewing, Pippen, et al) all see their trade value drop because of it?



Yes,


Remember how Pierce's value across the league dipped after that Pacer's series. 


No one said the value can not be recovered.  It is just a bad idea to trade a player after events that lower value. 


If you are going to trade a player, you do during a hot streak.

That's an extremely short sighted and predictable way of looking at it.

If a GM is going to offer less to Danny for Rondo because of last night, that gm is A. Stupid for thinking Danny values him less or B. Stupid for letting that minor incident get in the way of acquiring a star player in this league.


No, it is how it works.


If there is any reason a team would be looking to get rid of a player, teams offer less.  How many times do you see teams get less then they should for an all-star level player? 



I think it would be foolish to trade Rondo right now.  The Celtics would not get full value for him in terms of talent.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BballTim on April 30, 2012, 12:40:52 PM
This is a bad time to trade him.  That performance that got him tossed lowers his trade value. 

yea what he did last night totally wipes out his 25+ game streak of 10 assists or more, and being able to dominate a game without having to score.  ::)


Yes.  Guys that blow up and lose playoff games for their teams lose trade value. 


Especially when teams think the team want to get rid of him. 



Here's the honest truth...GMs in this league do not place value on a player based on one game unless that game is The Brawl at the Palace.

Thinking Rondo's trade value decreased because he bumped a ref is ridiculous and absurd.

What lowers Rondo's trade value is his at times lack of effort on defense, his horrid free throw shooting, and his lack of an ability to hit outside shots consistently every game.

But bumping a ref in one game is not going to change his value in ANY GM's mind in this league.


Change his value, no.


Change how much teams will offer, yes.



For all the good things Rondo did last night, it became meaningless the moment he decided to get two technical fouls at the end of the 4th quarter.  


He gave the team ahead extra FTs.

He took himself out of the game.


He threw away the Celtics comeback because he couldn't keep his emotions in hand with the official.


The Celtics will not get even talent value for Rondo.  

  So every player who's antics hurt a team in a playoff game (KG, PP, Kobe, LeBron, Amare, Ewing, Pippen, et al) all see their trade value drop because of it?



Yes,


Remember how Pierce's value across the league dipped after that Pacer's series. 


No one said the value can not be recovered.  It is just a bad idea to trade a player after events that lower value. 


If you are going to trade a player, you do during a hot streak.

  The only PP trade talks I recall was the Portland deal. How low did his value around the league dip?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: nickagneta on April 30, 2012, 12:45:18 PM


  The only PP trade talks I recall was the Portland deal. How low did his value around the league dip?

And wasn't that for a top 4 four pick in a top heavy talent loaded draft that would have netted the current best PG in the league and current top 5 player in the league?

Sounds like his value didn't dip too much, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Yogi on April 30, 2012, 12:53:20 PM
   Are you serious?  This is a trade worthy incident?  He had 20 points, 11 assists, 4 steals, 4 rebounds and only 1 TO while shooting 56% from the field.  He was hands down the best player on the floor including Josh Smith.  Rondo should be given the Nobel Peace Price for not punching that "official" in the face.  
   First of all, that "official" thought he was a superstar and all the people were there cheering for him.  He knows that he will never be as important as Rondo at anything and he let his ego and insecurity take over.  He blows a call on Josh Smith.  He repeatedly let Rondo get abused under the rim.  Every time Rondo pointed out his obvious lack of ability to officiate the game, he got sensitive and took it out on Rondo.  
   I've never seen a foul called on two people fighting for a loose ball on the floor in the regular season let alone a playoff game, but this official clearly thought that he will become a hero and decide the fate of the game by just gifting one team with the ball in a game changing moment.  The Celtics had cut it to 4 points with plenty of time, and after some inspired defense and KG literally diving face first on the floor to get the ball they give the ball to Atlanta on a bad call, two POSSESSIONS in a row.
   He also T'd up Rondo for doing nothing but arguing the call which he was perfectly allowed to do (especially when the official just gave a free possession to the Hawks when Smith knocked the ball from Rondo's hands out of bounds.) He clearly stopped short and Rondo tripped on his foot.  The irony is the only way Rondo could've stopped his fall was put his hands on the official.  Did Rondo put a little extra force and enjoy the contact a little too much, yeah.  But I honestly was contemplating punching the ref myself.  Rondo has never been the type of guy to hit players or refs.  He gets angry but I've never seen him initiate contact with anyone.  But whatever, thanks to Metta World Peace, Rondo will pay the price.  
   The official should be fired on the spot.  If you can't do your job properly you get fired.  That's the "rule" every one lives by, except for officials in the NBA.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: nickagneta on April 30, 2012, 01:16:24 PM
  Are you serious?  This is a trade worthy incident?  He had 20 points, 11 assists, 4 steals, 4 rebounds and only 1 TO while shooting 56% from the field.  He was hands down the best player on the floor including Josh Smith.  Rondo should be given the Nobel Peace Price for not punching that "official" in the face.  
   First of all, that "official" thought he was a superstar and all the people were there cheering for him.  He knows that he will never be as important as Rondo at anything and he let his ego and insecurity take over.  He blows a call on Josh Smith.  He repeatedly let Rondo get abused under the rim.  Every time Rondo pointed out his obvious lack of ability to officiate the game, he got sensitive and took it out on Rondo.  
   I've never seen a foul called on two people fighting for a loose ball on the floor in the regular season let alone a playoff game, but this official clearly thought that he will become a hero and decide the fate of the game by just gifting one team with the ball in a game changing moment.  The Celtics had cut it to 4 points with plenty of time, and after some inspired defense and KG literally diving face first on the floor to get the ball they give the ball to Atlanta on a bad call, two POSSESSIONS in a row.
   He also T'd up Rondo for doing nothing but arguing the call which he was perfectly allowed to do (especially when the official just gave a free possession to the Hawks when Smith knocked the ball from Rondo's hands out of bounds.) He clearly stopped short and Rondo tripped on his foot.  The irony is the only way Rondo could've stopped his fall was put his hands on the official.  Did Rondo put a little extra force and enjoy the contact a little too much, yeah.  But I honestly was contemplating punching the ref myself.  Rondo has never been the type of guy to hit players or refs.  He gets angry but I've never seen him initiate contact with anyone.  But whatever, thanks to Metta World Peace, Rondo will pay the price.  
   The official should be fired on the spot.  If you can't do your job properly you get fired.  That's the "rule" every one lives by, except for officials in the NBA.
Few things:

1. I agree the out of bounds call earlier was a wrong call and it should have been Celtics ball. I can see why Rondo was angry over that.

But to be fair:

2. I have seen that scrum called all sorts of ways including jump ball and foul on the player(Bass) jumping to the floor to get the ball from the player that almost has control(Smith) in both regular and post season play. I will agree though that the timing of the call is rather ridiculous as refs should let players decide games in the last minute of playoff games, not refs and my guess is 60-75% of other refs would have called a jump ball.

3. My guess here is that the first technical on Rondo wasn't because he said: "Oh golly gee. Aw shucks, Mr. Referee, sir. Are you 100% sure on that call". Again my guess is it went something along the lines of "An F bomb. F bomb you. Are you F bomb blind?"

4. There was no trip. Rondo bumped him. He let his anger get the best of him. By the same token, with 40 seconds left and Atlanta at the line shooting 2 and getting every call in the last 2 minutes, I'm not sure Rondo keeping his mouth shut would have made a difference. The C's would have needed to hit three's the rest of the way and that wasn't happening last night.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: bopna on April 30, 2012, 01:23:00 PM
  Are you serious?  This is a trade worthy incident?  He had 20 points, 11 assists, 4 steals, 4 rebounds and only 1 TO while shooting 56% from the field.  He was hands down the best player on the floor including Josh Smith.  Rondo should be given the Nobel Peace Price for not punching that "official" in the face.  
   First of all, that "official" thought he was a superstar and all the people were there cheering for him.  He knows that he will never be as important as Rondo at anything and he let his ego and insecurity take over.  He blows a call on Josh Smith.  He repeatedly let Rondo get abused under the rim.  Every time Rondo pointed out his obvious lack of ability to officiate the game, he got sensitive and took it out on Rondo.  
   I've never seen a foul called on two people fighting for a loose ball on the floor in the regular season let alone a playoff game, but this official clearly thought that he will become a hero and decide the fate of the game by just gifting one team with the ball in a game changing moment.  The Celtics had cut it to 4 points with plenty of time, and after some inspired defense and KG literally diving face first on the floor to get the ball they give the ball to Atlanta on a bad call, two POSSESSIONS in a row.
   He also T'd up Rondo for doing nothing but arguing the call which he was perfectly allowed to do (especially when the official just gave a free possession to the Hawks when Smith knocked the ball from Rondo's hands out of bounds.) He clearly stopped short and Rondo tripped on his foot.  The irony is the only way Rondo could've stopped his fall was put his hands on the official.  Did Rondo put a little extra force and enjoy the contact a little too much, yeah.  But I honestly was contemplating punching the ref myself.  Rondo has never been the type of guy to hit players or refs.  He gets angry but I've never seen him initiate contact with anyone.  But whatever, thanks to Metta World Peace, Rondo will pay the price.  
   The official should be fired on the spot.  If you can't do your job properly you get fired.  That's the "rule" every one lives by, except for officials in the NBA.

Bout time somebody here makes some sense....TP for you man!!!
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: RyNye on April 30, 2012, 01:26:31 PM
I like how people are acting like Rondo is the only player in the sport who has ever been given a one-game suspension for temporarily losing their cool in a closely contested, meaningful game.  ::)

Anyone who honestly thinks this should consider the following list of players, who in the past 2-3 seasons have ALSO been given one-game suspensions (in some cases multiple) for losing their cool on the court:

(and this is a PARTIAL list. I am just giving the biggest names, there are dozens of others).

Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum (no, not talking about Barea, talking about previous incidents)
Paul Pierce
Shaquille O'Neill
Rudy Gay
Elton Brand
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen
Carmelo Anthony
Zach Randolph
Tyson Chandler
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash

Are you people seriously saying you don't want any of these players on your team? Many of them have had WORSE incidents/suspensions than Rondo.

Honestly, the knee-jerk reactions by the bandwagon Rondo haters can be seriously short-sighted and obnoxious. It really is sickening. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but I genuinely do not understand the vitriolic dislike some people have for their own [dang]ed team.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Employee8 on April 30, 2012, 01:27:07 PM
You guys are ridiculous.  That's why I generally stay away from the forums when the games heat up.  Please, let the cooler heads prevail.

See you guys after this round and before the next.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: ChainSmokingLikeDino on April 30, 2012, 01:30:43 PM
I like how people are acting like Rondo is the only player in the sport who has ever been given a one-game suspension for temporarily losing their cool in a closely contested, meaningful game.  ::)

Anyone who honestly thinks this should consider the following list of players, who in the past 2-3 seasons have ALSO been given one-game suspensions (in some cases multiple) for losing their cool on the court:

(and this is a PARTIAL list. I am just giving the biggest names, there are dozens of others).

Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum (no, not talking about Barea, talking about previous incidents)
Paul Pierce
Shaquille O'Neill
Rudy Gay
Elton Brand
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen
Carmelo Anthony
Zach Randolph
Tyson Chandler
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash

Are you people seriously saying you don't want any of these players on your team? Many of them have had WORSE incidents/suspensions than Rondo.

Honestly, the knee-jerk reactions by the bandwagon Rondo haters can be seriously short-sighted and obnoxious. It really is sickening. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but I genuinely do not understand the vitriolic dislike some people have for their own [dang]ed team.

TP. People will debate "The Bump" till the cows come home and I don't think anyone is swaying anyone else's opinion of that.
The irritating aspect is the ridiculous critiques of Rondo that are coupled by the idealization of other players (who have done very similar things) in the process of putting down Rondo. Players in the league now (e.g. CP3 who punched a player below the belt) or past (DJ had some issues, yes?). So to call for a trade on this is absurd especially when the guys being viewed as ideal are all so similar.
Double standards and willful blindness and bias in criticism are what make this all so outlandish.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: celts55 on April 30, 2012, 01:31:00 PM
It's pretty amazing here how no one has ever lost their temper and done something stupid.
While I agree, it was in fact a stupid move, I'm certainly not looking to dump him because of it. As others have said, he was by far the only player who kept the Celtics in the game to begin with. Hell, he had 11 assists, when no one could hit a shot. If him team mates hit half the wide open shots they missed, he probably would have had 20 assists.
I really doubt if you look back at the career of any pro player, you wouldn't find sometime or something they have done that dumb and cost their team. It happened, and hopefully he learned a lesson, but trading your best player because he lost is temper is beyond me.
Most of those who want to get rid of him are the same people who cried when they traded Perkins, who had more than his share of tecs.  
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on April 30, 2012, 01:51:27 PM
While your at it...

Trade Pierce, he sucked last night. Lost us the game with his shots.

Trade KG also, he sucked in the first half badly.

Trade Bradley, he didnt have 15 points.

Trade our bench, they were a complete non factor.

Trade Ray Allen for a spare tire, since he cant play.

Trade Doc Rivers cause its his fault we lost probably.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: csfansince60s on April 30, 2012, 02:09:54 PM
 My 1000th post:

I agree with many on here that say Rondo should be suspended for a game (though we don't want it to happen).

I also agree with those who say that trading Rondo because of this incident is not a prudent decision.

However, I do disagree with those who say that we could not get real, substantive value back for him in trade.

We just have to find a team that can be taken to the next level by Rondo's skillset and who has assets that we would be interested in for a rebuild, if that is the direction we are choosing for next year.

A team like Golden State comes to mind, but I am sure that there are others out there. This trade works with GS:http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cftrdcq

GS gets Rondo

Boston gets Biedrens or Richard Jefferson. (If Biedrens, we get Klay Thompson too) in addition to GS' 4 draft picks this year including their lottery pick (currently 7th), the 30th, 35th and 52nd picks, and maybe their #1 in 2014.

GS gets out from Biedrens or Jefferson's contract and can amnesty the other if they want more cap flexibility. They get Rondo to pair with Curry in the backcourt and go forward with a core of Bogut, Lee, Curry and Rondo.

This may not be something that we or GS do, but is just an example of one way getting decent value for Rondo: a slew of draft picks for a rebuild for Rondo.



Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: snively on April 30, 2012, 02:13:43 PM
Magic Johnson chest bumped an official a few days after calling out his teammates for immaturity.  This as a 36 year old elder statesman of the league.  These things can happen. 

Rondo needs to learn to control his emotions better, but his emotions are a big part of why he's such a good player in the first place.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LarBrd33 on April 30, 2012, 02:40:30 PM
I'm all for signing Deron Williams and trading Rondo to the highest bidder.  But i've been saying that for months.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on April 30, 2012, 02:42:16 PM
I'm all for signing Deron Williams and trading Rondo to the highest bidder.  But i've been saying that for months.
From a getting talent via cap space and trade assets that'd be the ideal, I just think that its essentially impossible to pull off due to timing. Rondo as a trade piece could fetch a non-PG talent to pair with Deron far superior than the FA class could provide for a non-PG to pair with Rondo.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on April 30, 2012, 02:45:09 PM
Is it wrong to consider this topic borderline trolling, if not full-fledged?
Yes, it would be wrong.

Moranis has held the opinion we need to trade Rondo to move on with a rebuild for quite some time. I can't blame him for finding further reason for his previously held thoughts in this awful outburst of immaturity.
Exactly.  This team is done as a contender, which means it needs to go into full bore rebuilding as it isn't going to land any meaningful free agents this summer (which could have jump started a new contending team).

If you aren't a title contender and are not a young team that is headed in that direction, then you need to start over.  Rondo is good enough to keep the Celtics from truly being bad, which means the odds of a difference maker in the draft are much less and that is a bad position to be in.  Thus, you have to move him or somehow land a franchise player with him still around and I just don't see that as very realistic.

If Rondo was far more consistent I might feel differently about keeping him, but he has consistently shown he isn't a franchise player with his sporadic inconsistent play and his highly emotional physical state.  He plays with far too much emotion and lets the off court stuff interfere with his game play.  
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: twinbree on April 30, 2012, 02:53:25 PM
It makes no sense to me to trade a player for getting himself ejected in a playoff game. If we did that the Big Three would have been broken up after KG was traded for elbowing QRich and Pierce for getting ejected in the semis. People get overcome by their emotions and make poor decisions. It doesn't negate their other positive contributions. I'm disappointed in how he ended the game but I'm very proud of his effort last night. The team for the past few seasons always look like they are surprised by the first playoff game and start off on the wrong foot in our Round 1 Game 1 and I'm glad Rondo realized we had to show some sense of urgency starting the series on the road.

For his flaws Rondo is a very talented and fierce competitor who is still young and has to go through growing pains. As someone who loves Rondo I wonder sometimes if a trade would help him by putting him in a healthier environment. But from the perspective of a Celtics fan I don't want to trade him because it'll be difficult to get fair value back. I'm certainly not in favor of trading him for picks. A bird in hand being worth rookies in the draft.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on April 30, 2012, 02:55:33 PM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on April 30, 2012, 02:59:03 PM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
One 25 year old all star (who isn't a top five player in the game) is going to make your team good enough to just make the playoffs or just miss the playoffs.  That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on April 30, 2012, 03:03:39 PM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
One 25 year old all star (who isn't a top five player in the game) is going to make your team good enough to just make the playoffs or just miss the playoffs.  That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency. 
We've been over this before and I'm still not convinced.

If Rondo is as limited as you seem to think I fail to see why we won't be bad enough to get decent picks anyways. If the very picks you seem to think are the foundation would produce a player as good as Rondo is right now we'd be estatic. So why throw away a player in hand outright?

The Kings, Warriors, Bobcats, Clippers, etc. were all repeat lottery bound teams that basically never got anywhere. Better to try and build with Rondo than just punt and say to the fan base "Sorry we're going to dump a 25 year old high level player so we can be as terrible as possible for four years."

This isn't dumping Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson, or dumping Camby and Wallace again, etc..
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Yogi on April 30, 2012, 03:09:09 PM
   Rondo is a superstar who can carry a franchise by himself.  People who are still talking about him like it's 2008 have to start looking at what he's doing.  Hilarious that people think Rondo can't take us to a championship by himself, but Deron Williams (um.. New Jersey?)or Chris Paul (New Orleans?) can. He was the best player on the floor yesterday and he was playing with Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith.
The names Rondo's performances have drawn comparisons to this year? Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlin and John Stockton.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Donoghus on April 30, 2012, 03:15:19 PM
  Rondo is a superstar who can carry a franchise by himself.  People who are still talking about him like it's 2008 have to start looking at what he's doing.  Hilarious that people think Rondo can't take us to a championship by himself, but Deron Williams (um.. New Jersey?)or Chris Paul (New Orleans?) can. He was the best player on the floor yesterday and he was playing with Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith.
The names Rondo's performances have drawn comparisons to this year? Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlin and John Stockton.

I don't think he can but I don't want to trade him, either.

He's an excellent complementary piece.  You get a couple of guys to go around him that complement his game and you have yourself a pretty solid core. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on April 30, 2012, 03:19:12 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSX2bk5HUxCueYJ2YwBulAm476BkDU2xe9fK0tizuSGOaWBVgrP)

Thank you, Emperor.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on April 30, 2012, 03:20:27 PM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
One 25 year old all star (who isn't a top five player in the game) is going to make your team good enough to just make the playoffs or just miss the playoffs.  That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency. 
We've been over this before and I'm still not convinced.

If Rondo is as limited as you seem to think I fail to see why we won't be bad enough to get decent picks anyways. If the very picks you seem to think are the foundation would produce a player as good as Rondo is right now we'd be estatic. So why throw away a player in hand outright?

The Kings, Warriors, Bobcats, Clippers, etc. were all repeat lottery bound teams that basically never got anywhere. Better to try and build with Rondo than just punt and say to the fan base "Sorry we're going to dump a 25 year old high level player so we can be as terrible as possible for four years."

This isn't dumping Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson, or dumping Camby and Wallace again, etc..
Rondo is a good player, he is just inconsistent, but when he is on he is a great player.

As for the rest if you are truly bad it is rare you are going to get an elite talent from day 1 (the only 3 that fit that bill in the last 20 years or so are Lebron, Shaq and Duncan and the first two teams were in the lottery again after), thus you will be in a position to collect three or four very good players while they develop and can form the core of your next contending team.  If you draft well, you should get at least two (and really should get three) players worth building around.  

A guy like Rondo will keep the Celtics as a 30 win team, which means they would have to get very lucky in the lottery, to get a top three talent.  If the Celtics move Rondo,  they will likely get a lottery pick or a recent lottery pick (plus the two picks in the 20's).  In addition, that team will be pretty bad and will get a very high pick in the 2013 draft and will have a ton of cap space where they might be able to draw two top tier talents to pair with the two lottery picks.  I just don't see Rondo as being enough to draw another star, whereas two high end players and the room for two top tier free agents, might be a draw.  
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on April 30, 2012, 03:35:33 PM
Unless it's equal value, no thanks.

You said we should rebuild, why can't we rebuild with him? He doesn't have to be the main piece, he can just be one of them. We have cap space, two first rounders this year. We can start of on that. Id rather rebuild slowly with Rondo and be competitive than suck for a few years just so we can get draft picks that we may or may not know, will pan out for us.

 
Celtics should not trade him for anything less than his value. With his level of production and his reasonable contract, i'd rather ride along with his attitude problems which is not cancerous in any way than trade him for less.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: wiley on April 30, 2012, 03:42:10 PM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
One 25 year old all star (who isn't a top five player in the game) is going to make your team good enough to just make the playoffs or just miss the playoffs.  That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency.  
We've been over this before and I'm still not convinced.

If Rondo is as limited as you seem to think I fail to see why we won't be bad enough to get decent picks anyways. If the very picks you seem to think are the foundation would produce a player as good as Rondo is right now we'd be estatic. So why throw away a player in hand outright?

The Kings, Warriors, Bobcats, Clippers, etc. were all repeat lottery bound teams that basically never got anywhere. Better to try and build with Rondo than just punt and say to the fan base "Sorry we're going to dump a 25 year old high level player so we can be as terrible as possible for four years."

This isn't dumping Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson, or dumping Camby and Wallace again, etc..

faulty logic is never convincing.  The whole "not bad enough to get us x...."  "but just good enough to not get us y...."    line of GM philosophizing should be put out to pasture......soon.

Edit:  Just be more direct and say you (Moranis) are not a fan of Rondo's package and would prefer a PG who shoots jump shots better.  Done.  No need for convolution.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on April 30, 2012, 04:08:58 PM
I like what Rondo did last night, it shows passion and fire, something nobody but him had last night, where the heck was our franchise player Paul Pierce? I didnt even know he played last night, what the heck happened.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Finkelskyhook on April 30, 2012, 04:14:44 PM
Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer

No they don't
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LeoMoreno on April 30, 2012, 04:24:16 PM
Oh NOT THIS AGAIN
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Mr October on April 30, 2012, 04:29:07 PM
Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer

No they don't

+1

Rondo doesn't ever 'need' to be traded. If you are not getting an all NBA, all star lock player in return, there is no reason to trade Rondo. I love his passion. Even Bird, Pierce, etc made mistakes were their passion went too far.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: KY Celts fan on April 30, 2012, 04:59:19 PM
Oh NOT THIS AGAIN

my thoughts exactly. all it took was one incident for all the Rondo haters to start flooding the internet again, even though he has been sensational the past few months and was carrying this team last night.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Lord of Mikawa on April 30, 2012, 05:02:11 PM
Trading Rondo will destroy this time for the next five to seven years.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: jambr380 on April 30, 2012, 05:28:30 PM
If we win this series, this trade value topic will be totally forgotten. Then we would move on to a Rose-less Bulls team where Rondo could really dominate.

I know there are some big 'ifs' in this series, but the Celtics have played incredibly well lately and really have no reason not to win this series. The Hawks don't have [who is essentially] their best player in Horford. I am not even going to worry about it unless we lose game 2.

Get some rest Rondo, you're still the best in my mind.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: toneskeet on April 30, 2012, 05:40:32 PM
Sometimes I wonder if Danny never pursued CP3, would all the anti Rondo people still want him traded. it may be just me but I didn't hear many people calling for Rondo to be traded after we were eliminated last year.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: ChefEricT on April 30, 2012, 06:08:55 PM
He is far too immature and emotional to take this team where it needs to go in the post big 3 era.  He is incredibly talented, but his attitude will always hold him back.  He can't be the man on a title or team and I question whether he can really even be the 2nd or 3rd man on a title team, because he just isn't reliable or consistent as a result of the attitude.  I've had these concerns for awhile, but last night really crystalized it for me.  You can't get a technical in that spot, nonetheless two technicals, an ejection, and a likely a suspension.  It is unacceptable and should never be tolerated.  But that is just Rondo.  It is the way he always is and the way he will always be.  The emotion certainly is beneficial at times, but it is a negative far too often.  It is time to move on from Rajon Rondo and his attitude.

I would like to trade you.  Maybe I can send you to Toronto for a Raptor fan to be named later.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on April 30, 2012, 06:10:41 PM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
One 25 year old all star (who isn't a top five player in the game) is going to make your team good enough to just make the playoffs or just miss the playoffs.  That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency.  
We've been over this before and I'm still not convinced.

If Rondo is as limited as you seem to think I fail to see why we won't be bad enough to get decent picks anyways. If the very picks you seem to think are the foundation would produce a player as good as Rondo is right now we'd be estatic. So why throw away a player in hand outright?

The Kings, Warriors, Bobcats, Clippers, etc. were all repeat lottery bound teams that basically never got anywhere. Better to try and build with Rondo than just punt and say to the fan base "Sorry we're going to dump a 25 year old high level player so we can be as terrible as possible for four years."

This isn't dumping Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson, or dumping Camby and Wallace again, etc..

faulty logic is never convincing.  The whole "not bad enough to get us x...."  "but just good enough to not get us y...."    line of GM philosophizing should be put out to pasture......soon.

Edit:  Just be more direct and say you (Moranis) are not a fan of Rondo's package and would prefer a PG who shoots jump shots better.  Done.  No need for convolution.


actually I could care less what type of PG we have.  Historically, unless you are Magic Johnson or Isiah Thomas, the PG doesn't matter.  When guys like Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Steve Kerr, etc. are multiple time title winners it shows you don't really need much from the PG other than some timely shooting and timely defense.  Nothing else really matters from a historical perspective. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: scaryjerry on April 30, 2012, 06:10:59 PM
He is far too immature and emotional to take this team where it needs to go in the post big 3 era.  He is incredibly talented, but his attitude will always hold him back.  He can't be the man on a title or team and I question whether he can really even be the 2nd or 3rd man on a title team, because he just isn't reliable or consistent as a result of the attitude.  I've had these concerns for awhile, but last night really crystalized it for me.  You can't get a technical in that spot, nonetheless two technicals, an ejection, and a likely a suspension.  It is unacceptable and should never be tolerated.  But that is just Rondo.  It is the way he always is and the way he will always be.  The emotion certainly is beneficial at times, but it is a negative far too often.  It is time to move on from Rajon Rondo and his attitude.

I would like to trade you.  Maybe I can send you to Toronto for a Raptor fan to be named later.


TP :)

*Sigh* ::) @ trading rondo
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics4ever on April 30, 2012, 06:15:01 PM
Quote
I would like to trade you.  Maybe I can send you to Toronto for a Raptor fan to be named later.

This was worthy of a TP.  Call me crazy but I like having a guy that cares like Rondo.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Neurotic Guy on April 30, 2012, 06:16:05 PM
I am not opposed to trading anyone if the right deal is there, however, last night's antics don't push me anywhere near the edge re: Rondo.  Sorry to say, but he is still a little young and learning.   This is a smart guy who is crazy talented and who will VERY likely attain more maturity (as most do between 26 and 32) as he ages. 
I don't want him growing up somewhere else!!
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LooseCannon on April 30, 2012, 08:43:40 PM
That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency.

You don't if you refuse to sign players to those kind of contracts.  Teams like Sacramento and Denver are horribly run because they keep signing players to long mid-level contracts.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CoachBo on April 30, 2012, 10:06:24 PM
I think we've seen pretty clearly that the league doesn't value Rondo, not highly enough for Ainge and nowhere near the pedestal of infallibility he occupies on this blog with some of you.

Would I move him in a deal good for the Celtics? Sure would.

Can the Celtics move him in a good deal that would help the club? Obviously not, and his petulance last night is only going to devalue him further around the league.

Probably not much else to do than keep up the "When will Rondo ever grow up?" vigil.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: tenn_smoothie on April 30, 2012, 10:23:19 PM
Yup, just like we should have traded Pierce immediately after game 6 in 2005.

http://www.nba.com/games/20050505/BOSIND/recap.html

Guy could never lead the team anywhere, did you see the ridiculous press conference? Keeping that immature player has killed the franchise for the last 7 years.

wrong - Pierce grew up because of Kevin Garnett (and probably Ray Allen helped as well).

i was through with Pierce after that Game 6 in '05 along with the subsequent Game 7 No-Show Embarrassment he led the Celtics through in that series vs Indiana.

Kevin Garnett is THE reason for #17 and the 5-year run we have enjoyed since he came to Boston.


Regarding Rondo - his emotion is part of what makes him great. you can't ask him to play his guts out with one arm one year and then crucify him for the same emotion the next year. it's part of the package (sometimes unfortunately).
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BASS_THUMPER on April 30, 2012, 10:33:18 PM
rondos emotions will lose us important games
the playoffs is a terrible time to get emotional

suck it up rondo and playball and cry after the game
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on April 30, 2012, 10:36:38 PM
He is far too immature and emotional to take this team where it needs to go in the post big 3 era.  He is incredibly talented, but his attitude will always hold him back.  He can't be the man on a title or team and I question whether he can really even be the 2nd or 3rd man on a title team, because he just isn't reliable or consistent as a result of the attitude.  I've had these concerns for awhile, but last night really crystalized it for me.  You can't get a technical in that spot, nonetheless two technicals, an ejection, and a likely a suspension.  It is unacceptable and should never be tolerated.  But that is just Rondo.  It is the way he always is and the way he will always be.  The emotion certainly is beneficial at times, but it is a negative far too often.  It is time to move on from Rajon Rondo and his attitude.

I would like to trade you.  Maybe I can send you to Toronto for a Raptor fan to be named later.


TP. This will make my day tonight.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on April 30, 2012, 10:39:54 PM
rondos emotions will lose us important games
the playoffs is a terrible time to get emotional

suck it up rondo and playball and cry after the game


Rondo's emotion shows you how he wants this team to win.

Yes he got to emotional but can you blame him when most of the calls from last night were blatantly one sided, where in the game is within reach?

I'm not condoning what he did, but cmon man, give the dude a break. He was the best player last night, and he showed us (albeit he went to far) his desire to win.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Smokeeye123 on April 30, 2012, 10:55:51 PM
Rondo and Josh Smith together needs to happen. I think that will be our team in 2 years.

No way we trade him.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: azzenfrost on April 30, 2012, 10:57:25 PM
Disagree with topic. Celtics must keep Rondo. A lot of guys in the NBA don't care. Our PG does.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: jdz101 on April 30, 2012, 11:07:31 PM
Oh no we lost a playoff game!

Trade Rondo for Orien Greene and a pick!

Burn down the TD Garden!

Change the team name to the New England Gray Squirrels!
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: azzenfrost on April 30, 2012, 11:08:54 PM
Oi, don't mess with the squirrels. ;D
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: OsirusCeltics on May 01, 2012, 12:00:50 AM
I normally criticize Rondo alot, but I don't agree with this post at all
I understand if you want Rondo to be traded, but to be traded cause of this incident makes no sense

Rondo played the best out of everyone in Game 1, and the reason the Celtics were still in the game. Since when is an ejection mean you aren't a leader and are too immature? Based on this era's rules, Kevin Mchale would be thrown out and suspended for knocking down Kurt Rambis. So Mchale needed to be traded because of that flagrant foul? Sorry it doesn't make sense
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Kane3387 on May 01, 2012, 01:14:03 AM
Trade him for what?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: GDAbraham on May 01, 2012, 01:35:53 AM
Much rather have someone who's that passionate and steps over the line in a minor way once in a while than a loose cannon (Metta World Peace) or someone who doesn't care enough (the Wizards last couple years) or someone who is really accepting of everything and wants to be everyone's best friend (Dwight).
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: RajonRondo9Dime on May 03, 2012, 04:10:59 PM
Can't believe we didn't trade KG after his elbow against Miami in the 2010 playoffs.

KG too immature to be a leader on this team.  ;)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Chris on May 03, 2012, 04:13:42 PM
Trade him for what?

That really is the definitive response.  As it should be in the case of any vague statement of X should be traded.  It all comes down to what you are getting back.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: colincb on May 03, 2012, 04:21:47 PM
How about Milsap and a couple of future unprotected firsts?  Jazz in desperate need of a PG, have 4 guys at the 4/5 spots, and aren't a candidate for a S+T with the Nets.

Not advocating it, just looking a possible trade and a trade partner with a major PG need and a plausible deal IF we're going to nuke the team and  rebuild. Others would be Portland and Indy. A lot of ifs here.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: mctyson on May 03, 2012, 04:22:40 PM
He is far too immature and emotional to take this team where it needs to go in the post big 3 era.  He is incredibly talented, but his attitude will always hold him back.  He can't be the man on a title or team and I question whether he can really even be the 2nd or 3rd man on a title team, because he just isn't reliable or consistent as a result of the attitude.  I've had these concerns for awhile, but last night really crystalized it for me.  You can't get a technical in that spot, nonetheless two technicals, an ejection, and a likely a suspension.  It is unacceptable and should never be tolerated.  But that is just Rondo.  It is the way he always is and the way he will always be.  The emotion certainly is beneficial at times, but it is a negative far too often.  It is time to move on from Rajon Rondo and his attitude.

Shorter version:  we need to completely overreact and trade our most talented player who is a championship-caliber PG for quarters on the dollar because he gets some technical fouls.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on May 03, 2012, 04:46:38 PM
How about Milsap and a couple of future unprotected firsts?  Jazz in desperate need of a PG, have 4 guys at the 4/5 spots, and aren't a candidate for a S+T with the Nets.

Not advocating it, just looking a possible trade and a trade partner with a major PG need and a plausible deal IF we're going to nuke the team and  rebuild. Others would be Portland and Indy. A lot of ifs here.

Why would you trade a superstar point guard for an undersized fringe all-star PF?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on May 03, 2012, 05:30:53 PM
I'd trade him to OKC for Harden and a couple of unprotected firsts. He'd be happy to be reunited with Perk so we do the kid a solid. Westbrook can finally move over to his more natural position of shooting guard and keep jacking them up and Rondo can be the conductor of a very potent offensive attack. Not to mention OKC can't re-sign both Ibaka and Harden. One of them has to go. My money is they keep the big. At least that's the traditional GM move.
 
We get a premier upcoming SG in Harden in a league where they are few and far between seemingly. He can slide right in and start instead of haveing to come off the bench because let's face it ray ray is off to greener pastures after this year. And we sign Goran Dragic who's an unrestricted free agent this offseason. Kid plays with fire can light it up in numerous ways he just needs a starting gig permanently. Someone's gonna grab him i personally wish it was the C's. Those two with our young core and picks would be a great. We move Avery Bradley while his stock is high and i bet we can get a very good offer.

Good locker room guys. Very young and talented. The PG and SG spot would be set for years. We could focus our energies on finding the core bigs from that spot going forward. And dangling AB would certainly help in our search obviously.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: fingerlakes on May 03, 2012, 05:33:11 PM


Nay on Milsap.  Give me Al Jefferson and a first and I would let Rondo go.  We need low post scoring more than anything.  Utah has the young bigs ready to replace Al and we go nowhere until we get another big.  Who else is out there?  I think Avery Bradley could grow into a great point guard in time.  Love Rondo but sometimes he holds on to the ball to much and it seems Pierce plays better without him at times.  I really miss Big Al.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on May 03, 2012, 05:36:03 PM
Good thing fans arent GM's.

This team would be a lottery team every single year because fans love trading away talent for lesser talent, based off this thread.

Rondo for Harden.

Rondo for a bag of chips and a soda.

Rondo for a couple of picks.

Get real people.

Last time I checked Danny only tried to trade Rondo for Chris Paul.

That means if he isnt getting a superstar back in return he aint trading him. Rondos here to stay so just get used to his antics and his attitude.

By the way, did you watch the Hawks game 2? Thats what our team looks like without Rondo. Horrible.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: syfy9 on May 03, 2012, 05:36:32 PM
I'd trade him to OKC for Harden and a couple of unprotected firsts. He'd be happy to be reunited with Perk so we do the kid a solid. Westbrook can finally move over to his more natural position of shooting guard and keep jacking them up and Rondo can be the conductor of a very potent offensive attack. Not to mention OKC can't re-sign both Ibaka and Harden. One of them has to go. My money is they keep the big. At least that's the traditional GM move.
 
We get a premier upcoming SG in Harden in a league where they are few and far between seemingly. He can slide right in and start instead of haveing to come off the bench because let's face it ray ray is off to greener pastures after this year. And we sign Goran Dragic who's an unrestricted free agent this offseason. Kid plays with fire can light it up in numerous ways he just needs a starting gig permanently. Someone's gonna grab him i personally wish it was the C's. Those two with our young core and picks would be a great. We move Avery Bradley while his stock is high and i bet we can get a very good offer.

Good locker room guys. Very young and talented. The PG and SG spot would be set for years. We could focus our energies on finding the core bigs from that spot going forward. And dangling AB would certainly help in our search obviously.
If we were to do this trade, we would assure an OKC dynasty for the next decade. No championships for the Celtics any time soon, despite having a great player in Harden.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: fingerlakes on May 03, 2012, 05:41:40 PM
Good thing fans arent GM's.

This team would be a lottery team every single year because fans love trading away talent for lesser talent, based off this thread.

Rondo for Harden.

Rondo for a bag of chips and a soda.

Rondo for a couple of picks.

Get real people.

Last time I checked Danny only tried to trade Rondo for Chris Paul.

That means if he isnt getting a superstar back in return he aint trading him. Rondos here to stay so just get used to his antics and his attitude.

By the way, did you watch the Hawks game 2? Thats what our team looks like without Rondo. Horrible.
Whats your plan for a big man?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on May 03, 2012, 05:42:00 PM
I'd trade him to OKC for Harden and a couple of unprotected firsts. He'd be happy to be reunited with Perk so we do the kid a solid. Westbrook can finally move over to his more natural position of shooting guard and keep jacking them up and Rondo can be the conductor of a very potent offensive attack. Not to mention OKC can't re-sign both Ibaka and Harden. One of them has to go. My money is they keep the big. At least that's the traditional GM move.
 
We get a premier upcoming SG in Harden in a league where they are few and far between seemingly. He can slide right in and start instead of haveing to come off the bench because let's face it ray ray is off to greener pastures after this year. And we sign Goran Dragic who's an unrestricted free agent this offseason. Kid plays with fire can light it up in numerous ways he just needs a starting gig permanently. Someone's gonna grab him i personally wish it was the C's. Those two with our young core and picks would be a great. We move Avery Bradley while his stock is high and i bet we can get a very good offer.

Good locker room guys. Very young and talented. The PG and SG spot would be set for years. We could focus our energies on finding the core bigs from that spot going forward. And dangling AB would certainly help in our search obviously.

So you want to trade Rondo and Bradley...and build around Harden instead?

That makes no sense im sorry. Why not just build around Rondo and Bradley?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: alajet on May 03, 2012, 05:43:24 PM
I'd trade him to OKC for Harden and a couple of unprotected firsts. He'd be happy to be reunited with Perk so we do the kid a solid. Westbrook can finally move over to his more natural position of shooting guard and keep jacking them up and Rondo can be the conductor of a very potent offensive attack. Not to mention OKC can't re-sign both Ibaka and Harden. One of them has to go. My money is they keep the big. At least that's the traditional GM move.
 
We get a premier upcoming SG in Harden in a league where they are few and far between seemingly. He can slide right in and start instead of haveing to come off the bench because let's face it ray ray is off to greener pastures after this year. And we sign Goran Dragic who's an unrestricted free agent this offseason. Kid plays with fire can light it up in numerous ways he just needs a starting gig permanently. Someone's gonna grab him i personally wish it was the C's. Those two with our young core and picks would be a great. We move Avery Bradley while his stock is high and i bet we can get a very good offer.

Good locker room guys. Very young and talented. The PG and SG spot would be set for years. We could focus our energies on finding the core bigs from that spot going forward. And dangling AB would certainly help in our search obviously.
If we were to do this trade, we would assure an OKC dynasty for the next decade. No championships for the Celtics any time soon, despite having a great player in Harden.

Yes, a Rondo-Westbrook backcourt would be scary, to say the least. And they would still have that guy named Kevin Durant.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on May 03, 2012, 05:43:50 PM
Good thing fans arent GM's.

This team would be a lottery team every single year because fans love trading away talent for lesser talent, based off this thread.

Rondo for Harden.

Rondo for a bag of chips and a soda.

Rondo for a couple of picks.

Get real people.

Last time I checked Danny only tried to trade Rondo for Chris Paul.

That means if he isnt getting a superstar back in return he aint trading him. Rondos here to stay so just get used to his antics and his attitude.

By the way, did you watch the Hawks game 2? Thats what our team looks like without Rondo. Horrible.
Whats your plan for a big man?

I dont have a plan, thats not my job its Dannys.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on May 03, 2012, 05:44:22 PM
Rondo and Westbrook wouldn't work, both need the ball too much and while Westbrook's mid ranged shot has improved it'd cause serious spacing issues.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 03, 2012, 05:46:57 PM
I don't think Rondo is going anywhere.   Bradley and Rondo looked like the backcourt of the future.   Get them some bigs who can run and go with it.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on May 03, 2012, 05:47:39 PM
Good thing fans arent GM's.

This team would be a lottery team every single year because fans love trading away talent for lesser talent, based off this thread.

Rondo for Harden.

Rondo for a bag of chips and a soda.

Rondo for a couple of picks.

Get real people.

Last time I checked Danny only tried to trade Rondo for Chris Paul.

That means if he isnt getting a superstar back in return he aint trading him. Rondos here to stay so just get used to his antics and his attitude.

By the way, did you watch the Hawks game 2? Thats what our team looks like without Rondo. Horrible.


First off i was under the impression this thread was all hypothetical.. I love Rondo and appreciate his contributions to our organization. But is it wrong to float around ideas just for fun? I say no..

And yes i did watch the last Hawks game. And last i checked we won in spite of the fact our starting PG put himself above the team and was suspended. So relaxe, just because there are view points on this blog of posters who would be ok with moving Rondo doesn't mean we dont like or appreciate the kid and what he's done for the team.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: fingerlakes on May 03, 2012, 05:50:25 PM
Good thing fans arent GM's.

This team would be a lottery team every single year because fans love trading away talent for lesser talent, based off this thread.

Rondo for Harden.

Rondo for a bag of chips and a soda.

Rondo for a couple of picks.

Get real people.

Last time I checked Danny only tried to trade Rondo for Chris Paul.

That means if he isnt getting a superstar back in return he aint trading him. Rondos here to stay so just get used to his antics and his attitude.

By the way, did you watch the Hawks game 2? Thats what our team looks like without Rondo. Horrible.
Whats your plan for a big man?

I dont have a plan, thats not my job its Dannys.
A little imagination will not hurt you dude.  Half the fun of being a fan man.  We are not getting out of the east shooting jump shots.  Danny must get a low post threat and of course that is his job.  
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Kane3387 on May 03, 2012, 05:51:03 PM
Rondo and Westbrook wouldn't work, both need the ball too much and while Westbrook's mid ranged shot has improved it'd cause serious spacing issues.

Not to mention OKC is very proud of their draft picks and their guys. I know they traded Green, but it was obvious he wanted more money then they felt he was worth and wanted to commit to him. They saw him as a starter on their team who should really be a six man.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on May 03, 2012, 05:54:16 PM
I'd trade him to OKC for Harden and a couple of unprotected firsts. He'd be happy to be reunited with Perk so we do the kid a solid. Westbrook can finally move over to his more natural position of shooting guard and keep jacking them up and Rondo can be the conductor of a very potent offensive attack. Not to mention OKC can't re-sign both Ibaka and Harden. One of them has to go. My money is they keep the big. At least that's the traditional GM move.
 
We get a premier upcoming SG in Harden in a league where they are few and far between seemingly. He can slide right in and start instead of haveing to come off the bench because let's face it ray ray is off to greener pastures after this year. And we sign Goran Dragic who's an unrestricted free agent this offseason. Kid plays with fire can light it up in numerous ways he just needs a starting gig permanently. Someone's gonna grab him i personally wish it was the C's. Those two with our young core and picks would be a great. We move Avery Bradley while his stock is high and i bet we can get a very good offer.

Good locker room guys. Very young and talented. The PG and SG spot would be set for years. We could focus our energies on finding the core bigs from that spot going forward. And dangling AB would certainly help in our search obviously.
If we were to do this trade, we would assure an OKC dynasty for the next decade. No championships for the Celtics any time soon, despite having a great player in Harden.


They would certainly be a champion type team on paper. Who knows however if they could make it work in real life. Durant would certainly need to up his leadership role or risk losing the team to Rondo. Which wouldn't neccesarily be a good thing. Also we would only meet these guys in the regular season or title games. That means headaches for our good buddies over there in la la land. Sign me up!

We would have a ton of cap space to sign free agents. Jeff Green would be back as our sixth man or starter depending on Pierce's moves this offseason. That leaves us really with holes at the center and PF spot. Asssuming of course Garnett leaves. That's not an awful spot to be in from a complete rebuild and retool position in my eyes. It certainly wouldnt be easy to fill those spots bigs are a hot commodity in the league but with a solid core i could see us getting some luck in the free agent department.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: syfy9 on May 03, 2012, 05:55:26 PM
I normally criticize Rondo alot, but I don't agree with this post at all
I understand if you want Rondo to be traded, but to be traded cause of this incident makes no sense

Rondo played the best out of everyone in Game 1, and the reason the Celtics were still in the game. Since when is an ejection mean you aren't a leader and are too immature? Based on this era's rules, Kevin Mchale would be thrown out and suspended for knocking down Kurt Rambis. So Mchale needed to be traded because of that flagrant foul? Sorry it doesn't make sense
TP. That very flagrant tipped the series in favor of the Celtics. We won the championship because of that foul.


Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on May 03, 2012, 05:57:05 PM
Good thing fans arent GM's.

This team would be a lottery team every single year because fans love trading away talent for lesser talent, based off this thread.

Rondo for Harden.

Rondo for a bag of chips and a soda.

Rondo for a couple of picks.

Get real people.

Last time I checked Danny only tried to trade Rondo for Chris Paul.

That means if he isnt getting a superstar back in return he aint trading him. Rondos here to stay so just get used to his antics and his attitude.

By the way, did you watch the Hawks game 2? Thats what our team looks like without Rondo. Horrible.
Whats your plan for a big man?

I dont have a plan, thats not my job its Dannys.
A little imagination will not hurt you dude.  Half the fun of being a fan man.  We are not getting out of the east shooting jump shots.  Danny must get a low post threat and of course that is his job.  

Actually we ARE getting out of the east.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on May 03, 2012, 06:00:11 PM
Rondo and Westbrook wouldn't work, both need the ball too much and while Westbrook's mid ranged shot has improved it'd cause serious spacing issues.


I tend to disagree. I think there's a serious issue on that team of who the alpha dog is. Durant or westbrook? Rondo's presence relieves this problem because it takes the ball out of westbrooks hands all the time and adds more flow to their offensive system. There's a lot of pressure on him now because if he doesnt pass to Durant he's always questioned in the media. He's a natural scorer and i dont see them being able to coexist long term. It's essentially the problem KG ran into early in his career with Marbury. Obviously on a different level but somewhat similar.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: fingerlakes on May 03, 2012, 06:03:01 PM
I'd trade him to OKC for Harden and a couple of unprotected firsts. He'd be happy to be reunited with Perk so we do the kid a solid. Westbrook can finally move over to his more natural position of shooting guard and keep jacking them up and Rondo can be the conductor of a very potent offensive attack. Not to mention OKC can't re-sign both Ibaka and Harden. One of them has to go. My money is they keep the big. At least that's the traditional GM move.
 
We get a premier upcoming SG in Harden in a league where they are few and far between seemingly. He can slide right in and start instead of haveing to come off the bench because let's face it ray ray is off to greener pastures after this year. And we sign Goran Dragic who's an unrestricted free agent this offseason. Kid plays with fire can light it up in numerous ways he just needs a starting gig permanently. Someone's gonna grab him i personally wish it was the C's. Those two with our young core and picks would be a great. We move Avery Bradley while his stock is high and i bet we can get a very good offer.

Good locker room guys. Very young and talented. The PG and SG spot would be set for years. We could focus our energies on finding the core bigs from that spot going forward. And dangling AB would certainly help in our search obviously.
If we were to do this trade, we would assure an OKC dynasty for the next decade. No championships for the Celtics any time soon, despite having a great player in Harden.


They would certainly be a champion type team on paper. Who knows however if they could make it work in real life. Durant would certainly need to up his leadership role or risk losing the team to Rondo. Which wouldn't neccesarily be a good thing. Also we would only meet these guys in the regular season or title games. That means headaches for our good buddies over there in la la land. Sign me up!

We would have a ton of cap space to sign free agents. Jeff Green would be back as our sixth man or starter depending on Pierce's moves this offseason. That leaves us really with holes at the center and PF spot. Asssuming of course Garnett leaves. That's not an awful spot to be in from a complete rebuild and retool position in my eyes. It certainly wouldnt be easy to fill those spots bigs are a hot commodity in the league but with a solid core i could see us getting some luck in the free agent department.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: fingerlakes on May 03, 2012, 06:08:42 PM
I'd trade him to OKC for Harden and a couple of unprotected firsts. He'd be happy to be reunited with Perk so we do the kid a solid. Westbrook can finally move over to his more natural position of shooting guard and keep jacking them up and Rondo can be the conductor of a very potent offensive attack. Not to mention OKC can't re-sign both Ibaka and Harden. One of them has to go. My money is they keep the big. At least that's the traditional GM move.
 
We get a premier upcoming SG in Harden in a league where they are few and far between seemingly. He can slide right in and start instead of haveing to come off the bench because let's face it ray ray is off to greener pastures after this year. And we sign Goran Dragic who's an unrestricted free agent this offseason. Kid plays with fire can light it up in numerous ways he just needs a starting gig permanently. Someone's gonna grab him i personally wish it was the C's. Those two with our young core and picks would be a great. We move Avery Bradley while his stock is high and i bet we can get a very good offer.

Good locker room guys. Very young and talented. The PG and SG spot would be set for years. We could focus our energies on finding the core bigs from that spot going forward. And dangling AB would certainly help in our search obviously.
If we were to do this trade, we would assure an OKC dynasty for the next decade. No championships for the Celtics any time soon, despite having a great player in Harden.


They would certainly be a champion type team on paper. Who knows however if they could make it work in real life. Durant would certainly need to up his leadership role or risk losing the team to Rondo. Which wouldn't neccesarily be a good thing. Also we would only meet these guys in the regular season or title games. That means headaches for our good buddies over there in la la land. Sign me up!

We would have a ton of cap space to sign free agents. Jeff Green would be back as our sixth man or starter depending on Pierce's moves this offseason. That leaves us really with holes at the center and PF spot. Asssuming of course Garnett leaves. That's not an awful spot to be in from a complete rebuild and retool position in my eyes. It certainly wouldnt be easy to fill those spots bigs are a hot commodity in the league but with a solid core i could see us getting some luck in the free agent department.


You check the free agent list?  No magic bullets there.  Danny will be trading this summer. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CeltsAcumen on May 03, 2012, 06:51:19 PM
I am on record as a pro-Rondo guy and I just think moving Rondo, a true PG, is a big, big mistake.

Rondo is a pure PG, not a scoring PG and that has appeal.

The Celtics will not be able to get equal value for him so why try and move him?

In addition, the Celtics have 2 firsts. I would much rather they package the 2 picks, move up 3 or 4 spots, get a quality scorer and have a back court starting with Rondo, Bradley, a re-signed Ray Allen and the draft pick.

Moving Rondo for pennies on the dollar is just not a smart move.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Larry for 3 on May 03, 2012, 07:06:52 PM
I normally criticize Rondo alot, but I don't agree with this post at all
I understand if you want Rondo to be traded, but to be traded cause of this incident makes no sense

Rondo played the best out of everyone in Game 1, and the reason the Celtics were still in the game. Since when is an ejection mean you aren't a leader and are too immature? Based on this era's rules, Kevin Mchale would be thrown out and suspended for knocking down Kurt Rambis. So Mchale needed to be traded because of that flagrant foul? Sorry it doesn't make sense
TP. That very flagrant tipped the series in favor of the Celtics. We won the championship because of that foul.



Kevin Mchale didnt have a history like Rondo does. 2nd time this year Rondo gotten tossed. That's the way this guy is. Totally different situation. The whole team knew in 1984 that a Laker had to go down after the game 3 debacle. It was just a matter of who and when in that game. The Celtics didnt need Rondo to get tossed putting his team in jeopardy the other night. That was as selfish as it gets.  For the record I agree that trading Rondo might be ok as long as we get equal value back.  What is that ? I'm not really sure, I need to see what's on the table.  And if you don't think Danny's exploring then your not paying attention.  I'm worried he's gonna be a major distraction in the post big 3 era. Espically if we strike out in free agency and next year and we struggle. Is Rondo going to be out of sorts if we lose 9 out of 11 in stretch next year? I dont know,  but I think he needs to work on his issues in order to be the most effective he can be. The player we all think he can be.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on May 03, 2012, 08:00:01 PM
I normally criticize Rondo alot, but I don't agree with this post at all
I understand if you want Rondo to be traded, but to be traded cause of this incident makes no sense

Rondo played the best out of everyone in Game 1, and the reason the Celtics were still in the game. Since when is an ejection mean you aren't a leader and are too immature? Based on this era's rules, Kevin Mchale would be thrown out and suspended for knocking down Kurt Rambis. So Mchale needed to be traded because of that flagrant foul? Sorry it doesn't make sense
TP. That very flagrant tipped the series in favor of the Celtics. We won the championship because of that foul.



Kevin Mchale didnt have a history like Rondo does. 2nd time this year Rondo gotten tossed. That's the way this guy is. Totally different situation. The whole team knew in 1984 that a Laker had to go down after the game 3 debacle. It was just a matter of who and when in that game. The Celtics didnt need Rondo to get tossed putting his team in jeopardy the other night. That was as selfish as it gets.  For the record I agree that trading Rondo might be ok as long as we get equal value back.  What is that ? I'm not really sure, I need to see what's on the table.  And if you don't think Danny's exploring then your not paying attention.  I'm worried he's gonna be a major distraction in the post big 3 era. Espically if we strike out in free agency and next year and we struggle. Is Rondo going to be out of sorts if we lose 9 out of 11 in stretch next year? I dont know,  but I think he needs to work on his issues in order to be the most effective he can be. The player we all think he can be.



Thank you for putting the image of my personal #2 favorite forumn moment in history, besides the famous balloon game in my mind.  Simply Stirring. Gotta love the greats.

TP, to you sir.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on May 03, 2012, 09:01:54 PM
NO WAY trade Rondo...absolutly NOT....there is no better pg out there...is Superman available...? So tell me, you want derrick rose.....injury.....deron..no...not even 1/2 as good a ball handler and passerr as rondo, chris paul....he is 2x the hot head......you guys bail way to easy, and still have this mentality.."We'll just get someone else, we are the Celtics"....Didn't the off season teach you that the rest of the world doesn't really feel they need to come here...Trading Rondo is the worst idea I have heard this YEAR...!!!
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Who on May 03, 2012, 09:07:03 PM
I'd trade him to OKC for Harden and a couple of unprotected firsts. He'd be happy to be reunited with Perk so we do the kid a solid. Westbrook can finally move over to his more natural position of shooting guard and keep jacking them up and Rondo can be the conductor of a very potent offensive attack. Not to mention OKC can't re-sign both Ibaka and Harden. One of them has to go. My money is they keep the big. At least that's the traditional GM move.
 
We get a premier upcoming SG in Harden in a league where they are few and far between seemingly. He can slide right in and start instead of haveing to come off the bench because let's face it ray ray is off to greener pastures after this year. And we sign Goran Dragic who's an unrestricted free agent this offseason. Kid plays with fire can light it up in numerous ways he just needs a starting gig permanently. Someone's gonna grab him i personally wish it was the C's. Those two with our young core and picks would be a great. We move Avery Bradley while his stock is high and i bet we can get a very good offer.

Good locker room guys. Very young and talented. The PG and SG spot would be set for years. We could focus our energies on finding the core bigs from that spot going forward. And dangling AB would certainly help in our search obviously.
A backcourt of Goran Dragic + James Harden would be very attractive.

Avery Bradley off the bench as a combo guard. Three man backcourt rotation. Nice.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: CoachBo on May 03, 2012, 09:35:30 PM
NO chance OKC does Harden for Rondo.

They're talking about amnestying Perkins to resign him and Ibaka.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics17 on May 03, 2012, 09:53:55 PM
Let's look back at this thread at the end of the playoffs and see if we still think trading Rondo is a good idea? Personally I think he will tie or break an all time playoff record in this years playoffs and I think specifically it will be most assists in a playoff game or most combinded assists and rebounds fro a playoff game.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Vermont Green on May 03, 2012, 09:58:29 PM
Moving Rondo for pennies on the dollar is just not a smart move.
Pennies on the Dollar?  Where did you get this idea?  No one is suggesting and certainly we can trust that DA wouldn't trade him just to dump him.  Trades will be explored though.

We are now 7-4 in games without him this year.  Think the Clipps would be 7-4 without CP or the Nets without Williams?  Rondo is not indispensable.  I think we could get good value back for him and trades should be explored.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 04, 2012, 06:25:49 AM
Moving Rondo for pennies on the dollar is just not a smart move.
Pennies on the Dollar?  Where did you get this idea?  No one is suggesting and certainly we can trust that DA wouldn't trade him just to dump him.  Trades will be explored though.

We are now 7-4 in games without him this year.  Think the Clipps would be 7-4 without CP or the Nets without Williams?  Rondo is not indispensable.  I think we could get good value back for him and trades should be explored.
Exactly.  And I think there are plenty of teams out there that would be interested in Rondo and I think the Celtics could get solid value with the potential for more value (depending on draft picks and what not). 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: SHAQATTACK on May 04, 2012, 07:26:39 AM
NO WAY trade Rondo...absolutly NOT....there is no better pg out there...is Superman available...? So tell me, you want derrick rose.....injury.....deron..no...not even 1/2 as good a ball handler and passerr as rondo, chris paul....he is 2x the hot head......you guys bail way to easy, and still have this mentality.."We'll just get someone else, we are the Celtics"....Didn't the off season teach you that the rest of the world doesn't really feel they need to come here...Trading Rondo is the worst idea I have heard this YEAR...!!!

Well said.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: mctyson on May 04, 2012, 07:48:35 AM
Moving Rondo for pennies on the dollar is just not a smart move.
Pennies on the Dollar?  Where did you get this idea?  No one is suggesting and certainly we can trust that DA wouldn't trade him just to dump him.  Trades will be explored though.

We are now 7-4 in games without him this year.  Think the Clipps would be 7-4 without CP or the Nets without Williams?  Rondo is not indispensable.  I think we could get good value back for him and trades should be explored.

The tone of this whole thread is that Rondo "needs" to be traded because he got ejected from Game 1.

If you think that another team is going to give you full value for Rondo when you are forcing a trade because you don't like his emotional composition, you are out of your mind.  Why would a team trade dollar-for-dollar when you are dealing from weakness?

Look at what Utah and Denver did with Deron and Melo.  Those were must trades.  Had to happen.  Did they get full value for them?  I think most people would argue that Denver didn't get one player anywhere close to Melo's market value.  They got some nice complementary players and a borderline future All-Star in Gallinari. No one that sums up to Melo, a top-5 NBA All-Pro.  Utah got Favors and some picks...I am not the biggest Deron Williams fan but at the time he was the 2nd best PG in the league, so we'll see how that works out.

I think Orlando lucked out a bit by getting Dwight to stay for another year.  At least now they can pretend like they don't have to trade him, and they can explore best options available.  If they traded him at the deadline this year no doubt they would have gotten below market value for him.

Same thing was happening with Rondo this year.  Gasol for Rondo?  Ridiculous.  Rondo must return a bonafide NBA all-star, or a couple lottery talents.  He is a top-3 PG right now, in his prime.  I put him ahead of D-Will at the moment.  So to put that in context, we would need to get something like Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, and multiple 1st rounders in retrun for Rondo.  I don't see anyone giving that up.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Bankshot on May 04, 2012, 08:30:13 AM
No!
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: celticmaestro on May 04, 2012, 09:19:23 AM
Crazy talk.

This tea, can hang with anyone in the NBA in a series and would not surprise anyone by winning it all. The team includes Rondo. Rondo is the best player on the team? See where I'm going with this?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 04, 2012, 10:21:21 AM
The tone of this whole thread is that Rondo "needs" to be traded because he got ejected from Game 1.
You have misread the tone of this thread, that isn't it at all.  The ejection from game 1 is just the continuation of a long line of problems resulting from Rondo's attitude.  His attitude is why he needs to go.  It is what keeps him from reaching his full potential and the next level (he shows flashes of what he could be, but lets his emotion and attitude affect his consistency to a level I can't recall in any one else).  The ejection was caused by his underlying attitude problem and that isn't going to go away because I don't believe it is a maturity issue.  I think it is just the way Rondo is and I don't see that improving, which means he will never be the player he could become.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: prov1ml34 on May 04, 2012, 10:47:14 AM
Moving Rondo for pennies on the dollar is just not a smart move.
Pennies on the Dollar?  Where did you get this idea?  No one is suggesting and certainly we can trust that DA wouldn't trade him just to dump him.  Trades will be explored though.

We are now 7-4 in games without him this year.  Think the Clipps would be 7-4 without CP or the Nets without Williams?  Rondo is not indispensable.  I think we could get good value back for him and trades should be explored.
Exactly.  And I think there are plenty of teams out there that would be interested in Rondo and I think the Celtics could get solid value with the potential for more value (depending on draft picks and what not).  

I have a feeling that with all the Rondo trade rumors that have come up over the years, if he was valued around the league the way Danny and we, as fans, value him, he would be gone.

What sold me on this fact was when the Hornets were coveting Stephen Curry over him in a potential CP3 trade.

They would rather have Curry who can't stay healthy over a durable, pass first PG on a very reasonable contract in Rondo! That's insane if you ask me but then again maybe I am overvaluing our players which happens a lot on this site when I look at potential trade scenarios that are published.

Overall, I think it might be a blessing in disguise that Rondo isn't valued very high because that means we essentially have to keep him and I think that's a good thing.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: snively on May 04, 2012, 12:06:53 PM
The tone of this whole thread is that Rondo "needs" to be traded because he got ejected from Game 1.
You have misread the tone of this thread, that isn't it at all.  The ejection from game 1 is just the continuation of a long line of problems resulting from Rondo's attitude.  His attitude is why he needs to go.  It is what keeps him from reaching his full potential and the next level (he shows flashes of what he could be, but lets his emotion and attitude affect his consistency to a level I can't recall in any one else).  The ejection was caused by his underlying attitude problem and that isn't going to go away because I don't believe it is a maturity issue.  I think it is just the way Rondo is and I don't see that improving, which means he will never be the player he could become.

Let's not forget what Pierce did earlier in his career.  He received the lion's share of the blame for the collapse of Team USA in 2002.  He got kicked out of a playoff game after an extreme over-reaction to an intentional foul. He was easily baited into bad shots by trash talk from opponents and once spit at the Cavs bench after a fierce round with young LeBron.   He had a pair of disappointing years in terms of shot selection and defensive intensity and took a full year to get with Doc's share the ball program.  Heck, it wasn't so long ago that he lost his cool and threw a gang sign at Al Horford after getting taunted on a missed shot late in a game.

We stuck with Pierce and it paid off.  I expect we'll do the same with Rondo (unless someone comes offering D-Will or CP3 for him).
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Tai on May 04, 2012, 12:24:14 PM
Moving Rondo for pennies on the dollar is just not a smart move.
Pennies on the Dollar?  Where did you get this idea?  No one is suggesting and certainly we can trust that DA wouldn't trade him just to dump him.  Trades will be explored though.

We are now 7-4 in games without him this year.  Think the Clipps would be 7-4 without CP or the Nets without Williams?  Rondo is not indispensable.  I think we could get good value back for him and trades should be explored.

The tone of this whole thread is that Rondo "needs" to be traded because he got ejected from Game 1.

If you think that another team is going to give you full value for Rondo when you are forcing a trade because you don't like his emotional composition, you are out of your mind.  Why would a team trade dollar-for-dollar when you are dealing from weakness?

Look at what Utah and Denver did with Deron and Melo.  Those were must trades.  Had to happen.  Did they get full value for them?  I think most people would argue that Denver didn't get one player anywhere close to Melo's market value.  They got some nice complementary players and a borderline future All-Star in Gallinari. No one that sums up to Melo, a top-5 NBA All-Pro.  Utah got Favors and some picks...I am not the biggest Deron Williams fan but at the time he was the 2nd best PG in the league, so we'll see how that works out.

I think Orlando lucked out a bit by getting Dwight to stay for another year.  At least now they can pretend like they don't have to trade him, and they can explore best options available.  If they traded him at the deadline this year no doubt they would have gotten below market value for him.

Same thing was happening with Rondo this year.  Gasol for Rondo?  Ridiculous.  Rondo must return a bonafide NBA all-star, or a couple lottery talents.  He is a top-3 PG right now, in his prime.  I put him ahead of D-Will at the moment.  So to put that in context, we would need to get something like Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, and multiple 1st rounders in retrun for Rondo.  I don't see anyone giving that up.


With all due respect to him, and as much as I hate the Lakers, Pau Gasol is better than any of the other players Utah or Denver got in their trades, by a landslide. People who talk about trading Rondo should actually be encouraged that any team would fathom giving up a player of Gasol's skill for him.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: bucknersrevenge on May 04, 2012, 12:26:39 PM
The tone of this whole thread is that Rondo "needs" to be traded because he got ejected from Game 1.
You have misread the tone of this thread, that isn't it at all.  The ejection from game 1 is just the continuation of a long line of problems resulting from Rondo's attitude.  His attitude is why he needs to go.  It is what keeps him from reaching his full potential and the next level (he shows flashes of what he could be, but lets his emotion and attitude affect his consistency to a level I can't recall in any one else).   The ejection was caused by his underlying attitude problem and that isn't going to go away because I don't believe it is a maturity issue.  I think it is just the way Rondo is and I don't see that improving, which means he will never be the player he could become.


Would that be the consistency of 10+ assists a game that he has consistently done over the last 25 games? Sorry, not buying it.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 04, 2012, 01:24:05 PM
The tone of this whole thread is that Rondo "needs" to be traded because he got ejected from Game 1.
You have misread the tone of this thread, that isn't it at all.  The ejection from game 1 is just the continuation of a long line of problems resulting from Rondo's attitude.  His attitude is why he needs to go.  It is what keeps him from reaching his full potential and the next level (he shows flashes of what he could be, but lets his emotion and attitude affect his consistency to a level I can't recall in any one else).  The ejection was caused by his underlying attitude problem and that isn't going to go away because I don't believe it is a maturity issue.  I think it is just the way Rondo is and I don't see that improving, which means he will never be the player he could become.

Let's not forget what Pierce did earlier in his career.  He received the lion's share of the blame for the collapse of Team USA in 2002.  He got kicked out of a playoff game after an extreme over-reaction to an intentional foul. He was easily baited into bad shots by trash talk from opponents and once spit at the Cavs bench after a fierce round with young LeBron.   He had a pair of disappointing years in terms of shot selection and defensive intensity and took a full year to get with Doc's share the ball program.  Heck, it wasn't so long ago that he lost his cool and threw a gang sign at Al Horford after getting taunted on a missed shot late in a game.

We stuck with Pierce and it paid off.  I expect we'll do the same with Rondo (unless someone comes offering D-Will or CP3 for him).
I always just saw Pierce as immature, and I don't see immaturity with Rondo.  I certainly could be wrong, but that is just the way I see it.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: pearljammer10 on May 04, 2012, 01:24:41 PM
I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: KY Celts fan on May 04, 2012, 01:40:10 PM
Moving Rondo for pennies on the dollar is just not a smart move.
Pennies on the Dollar?  Where did you get this idea?  No one is suggesting and certainly we can trust that DA wouldn't trade him just to dump him.  Trades will be explored though.

We are now 7-4 in games without him this year.  Think the Clipps would be 7-4 without CP or the Nets without Williams?  Rondo is not indispensable.  I think we could get good value back for him and trades should be explored.

Our record without Rondo doesn't really matter. The Bulls record without Derrick Rose was great this year. Does that mean Rose is expendable for the right price? Of course not!

Our record without KG in 2009 was good as well. Should we have though about getting rid of him? No, that's foolish.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 04, 2012, 01:51:19 PM
I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Tai on May 04, 2012, 01:55:15 PM
I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8


(http://static.regretsy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/SIMON-CONFUSED-GIF.gif)

I'm done with this topic before I say something stupid.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: j804 on May 04, 2012, 01:55:43 PM
 ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: alajet on May 04, 2012, 02:08:50 PM
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8

Fairly good. I like Conley as a pass-first PG. He also has a good feel to get some steals, can knock down 3s and showed in college alongside Oden that he is old school.
Hayward is someone really talented, as well. A very versatile player who can do almost anything.
Not advocating any trades at this point, but these sounded debatable.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: snively on May 04, 2012, 02:10:36 PM
I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8

Would you?  Which of those offers constitutes fair value for an all-star at the beginning of his prime?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on May 04, 2012, 02:21:07 PM
I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8

(http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/012011/situation-omg.gif)

You trolling?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: snively on May 04, 2012, 02:21:43 PM
The tone of this whole thread is that Rondo "needs" to be traded because he got ejected from Game 1.
You have misread the tone of this thread, that isn't it at all.  The ejection from game 1 is just the continuation of a long line of problems resulting from Rondo's attitude.  His attitude is why he needs to go.  It is what keeps him from reaching his full potential and the next level (he shows flashes of what he could be, but lets his emotion and attitude affect his consistency to a level I can't recall in any one else).  The ejection was caused by his underlying attitude problem and that isn't going to go away because I don't believe it is a maturity issue.  I think it is just the way Rondo is and I don't see that improving, which means he will never be the player he could become.

Let's not forget what Pierce did earlier in his career.  He received the lion's share of the blame for the collapse of Team USA in 2002.  He got kicked out of a playoff game after an extreme over-reaction to an intentional foul. He was easily baited into bad shots by trash talk from opponents and once spit at the Cavs bench after a fierce round with young LeBron.   He had a pair of disappointing years in terms of shot selection and defensive intensity and took a full year to get with Doc's share the ball program.  Heck, it wasn't so long ago that he lost his cool and threw a gang sign at Al Horford after getting taunted on a missed shot late in a game.

We stuck with Pierce and it paid off.  I expect we'll do the same with Rondo (unless someone comes offering D-Will or CP3 for him).
I always just saw Pierce as immature, and I don't see immaturity with Rondo.  I certainly could be wrong, but that is just the way I see it.

What is it if not maturity?  Do you think he's unstable mentally?

I think Rondo's problems smack of immaturity: has a hard time taking criticism (fights with Doc, bottle at the screen incident) and struggles to keep his emotions in check (ref bump, ball throwing).  What evidence is there that is some deeper, darker problem?

His problems with consistency on the court are very much skill and role-based, not personality: his scoring is so unorthodox without accurate shooting (and his scoring role so fluid on this team) that's it's bound to be inconsistent.  He's been very consistent as a playmaker with back-to-back seasons of elite production in that category. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: colincb on May 04, 2012, 02:47:04 PM
I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8

None and it's not close. Even adding a couple of firsts can't help these enough.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics18 on May 04, 2012, 02:57:31 PM
Moving Rondo for pennies on the dollar is just not a smart move.
Pennies on the Dollar?  Where did you get this idea?  No one is suggesting and certainly we can trust that DA wouldn't trade him just to dump him.  Trades will be explored though.

We are now 7-4 in games without him this year.  Think the Clipps would be 7-4 without CP or the Nets without Williams?  Rondo is not indispensable.  I think we could get good value back for him and trades should be explored.

The Nets can't go 7 and 4 with Deron Williams, never mind without him.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 04, 2012, 02:58:50 PM
I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8

Would you?  Which of those offers constitutes fair value for an all-star at the beginning of his prime?
I'd certainly do the Memphis and Utah trades.  Depending on what I thought would be on the board at 8, 10, and 11, I might do those trades as well.  
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Senninsage on May 04, 2012, 03:04:28 PM
To be honest, Rondo's upside is much too high. You don't trade him. Not anymore. It's something I entertained early in the season, but not now.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 04, 2012, 03:35:20 PM
I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8
they are realistic.  I've brought up the Calderon concept before.  The idea is that although Rondo is a fantastic distributor and 'setup guy', he's actually a fairly limited offensive player.  When you have a star like Paul Pierce playing at a star level, you actually don't necessarily NEED Rondo.  Pierce is comfortable having the ball flow through him... and he has a tendency to step his game up with Rondo out... which is why we won game 2 and why we had a winning record when Rondo sat this year.   So I actually questioned whether or offense would be "better" if you replaced ROndo with a phenomenal shooter like Jose Calderon.  He's a career 48% shooter (38% from three and 88% from the line) ... Basically you replace a guy who can't shoot for his life (Rondo) with one of the best shooters in the league.  I imagine that would open things up for the rest of the starters... and I think a case could be made that it would actually IMPROVE our offense (for what it's worth, Calderon averages about 9 assists with garbage teammates).   Still, this is all contingent on Paul Pierce being here and capable of playing like a star... and I don't think Pierce has too many years left. 

I worry about how Rondo will perform when the guys he distributes the ball to (Ray, KG, and Pierce) retire.  What happens when he no longer has 3 hall-of-famers surrounding him... what happens when the Celtics ask him to be a primary scorer and the guy can't shoot... what happens when teams start doubling him like they do Rose, Chris Paul and Deron Williams?   Rondo is fantastic in his role right now, because he has elite scorers around him... but what happens when the elite scorers disappear?  Positive outlook:  He ends up a poor man's Jason Kidd and a few fringe stars can turn us into a mediocre little playoff team (like when the Nets lucked into the finals back-to-back years when the Leastern Conference was a joke).  Negative outlook:  His assists drop when his shot attempts rise, his limited offensive ability becomes and issue, the team starts losing and Rondo (who appears to be a very temperamental stubborn guy) starts sulking.  As we saw when Boston traded Perk and Rondo went comatose for a few months... a "sulking" Rondo isn't anywhere near as good as a "happy Rondo".

So although these trades kinda stink, I DO understand why Ainge has been exploring moving him and I DO understand why Ainge will continue to explore moving him.  I personally prefer a pipe-dream scenario where we sign Deron Williams in free agency (he's better than Rondo, not limited offensively, has shown success as a leader and his team's best player, has all the same distribution and setup abilities, he's available this summer... and we have the cap space to sign him) and then trade Rondo to the highest bidder (preferably a big man... a Josh Smith or Al Jefferson or something).   Offer Rondo and both 1sts for Dwight Howard if Dwight demands a trade.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: alajet on May 04, 2012, 03:46:41 PM
Please tell me that you don't want to trade Rondo for Smith, someone who blew up a fast break by a foolish double-handed dunk attempt. That tells you something about Smith's will to win.
Well, I guess adding Howard somehow could have been a bonus, but he's hardly the team player you're looking for.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 04, 2012, 04:06:26 PM
Smith and Rondo are buddies.  So it makes no sense to get him and not keep Rondo.  Howard is a bad back now and damaged goods.


I would not trade Dooling for Calderon, definitely not, Rondo.  Those trades are beyond stink they are offensive.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: snively on May 04, 2012, 04:32:02 PM
I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8

Would you?  Which of those offers constitutes fair value for an all-star at the beginning of his prime?
I'd certainly do the Memphis and Utah trades.  Depending on what I thought would be on the board at 8, 10, and 11, I might do those trades as well. 

Deron Williams fetched Harris, Favors (a more valuable prospect than Hayward), the pick that became Kanter (also more valuable than Hayward) and the GSW lottery pick (probably a little better value than Hayward).

Rondo's not quite as valuable as D-Will, but we're not talking about a gap that's almost 3 high lottery picks big. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LooseCannon on May 04, 2012, 05:05:23 PM
I worry about how Rondo will perform when the guys he distributes the ball to (Ray, KG, and Pierce) retire.  What happens when he no longer has 3 hall-of-famers surrounding him... what happens when the Celtics ask him to be a primary scorer and the guy can't shoot... what happens when teams start doubling him like they do Rose, Chris Paul and Deron Williams?   Rondo is fantastic in his role right now, because he has elite scorers around him... but what happens when the elite scorers disappear? 

You can't win a championship with a single star.  It doesn't matter if you keep Rondo or trade him for a different player if the Celtics still have only one star, so asking what happens if the Celtics are down to Rondo and a bunch of scrubs because everyone retires is a meaningless question. 

So, the Celtics should be trying to find replacement scorers.  That's what you do when the Big Three retire.  I personally favor the idea of finding a good stretch four so that you can surround Rondo with three players who can hit threes with good shot selection while not being defensive liabilities. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on May 04, 2012, 05:06:19 PM
Rondo can shoot now by the way, no clue why people are saying he is "a very limited offensive player"

Last time I checked the only knock on him was "shooting" now he takes loads of jumpers and makes them every game, so he can "shoot" now.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on May 04, 2012, 05:08:15 PM
I worry about how Rondo will perform when the guys he distributes the ball to (Ray, KG, and Pierce) retire.  What happens when he no longer has 3 hall-of-famers surrounding him... what happens when the Celtics ask him to be a primary scorer and the guy can't shoot... what happens when teams start doubling him like they do Rose, Chris Paul and Deron Williams?   Rondo is fantastic in his role right now, because he has elite scorers around him... but what happens when the elite scorers disappear? 

You can't win a championship with a single star.  It doesn't matter if you keep Rondo or trade him for a different player if the Celtics still have only one star, so asking what happens if the Celtics are down to Rondo and a bunch of scrubs because everyone retires is a meaningless question. 

So, the Celtics should be trying to find replacement scorers.  That's what you do when the Big Three retire.  I personally favor the idea of finding a good stretch four so that you can surround Rondo with three players who can hit threes with good shot selection while not being defensive liabilities. 

If Rondo was on the Warriors he would average 20 assists a game. The Warriors as a team suck, but every single one of their players is a great shooter.

The Celtics play really slow, that leads to less possessions and less chance for Rondo to get assists.

If he was on a team that Ran, he would get 10 assists a game just off fast breaks alone...
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics18 on May 04, 2012, 05:14:38 PM
I worry about how Rondo will perform when the guys he distributes the ball to (Ray, KG, and Pierce) retire.  What happens when he no longer has 3 hall-of-famers surrounding him... what happens when the Celtics ask him to be a primary scorer and the guy can't shoot... what happens when teams start doubling him like they do Rose, Chris Paul and Deron Williams?   Rondo is fantastic in his role right now, because he has elite scorers around him... but what happens when the elite scorers disappear? 

You can't win a championship with a single star.  It doesn't matter if you keep Rondo or trade him for a different player if the Celtics still have only one star, so asking what happens if the Celtics are down to Rondo and a bunch of scrubs because everyone retires is a meaningless question. 

So, the Celtics should be trying to find replacement scorers.  That's what you do when the Big Three retire.  I personally favor the idea of finding a good stretch four so that you can surround Rondo with three players who can hit threes with good shot selection while not being defensive liabilities. 

Trade him for Jose Calderon and a magic spell that ensures that Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett can play at super star levels forever. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: scaryjerry on May 04, 2012, 05:33:26 PM
did we need to trade KG when he was ejected and suspended in the first round 2 years ago?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: alajet on May 04, 2012, 05:41:28 PM
Deron Williams fetched Harris, Favors (a more valuable prospect than Hayward), the pick that became Kanter (also more valuable than Hayward) and the GSW lottery pick (probably a little better value than Hayward).

Rondo's not quite as valuable as D-Will, but we're not talking about a gap that's almost 3 high lottery picks big. 

That was a terrible trade looking from the Nets perspective.
Starter material in Harris, lost. A freaking potential in Favors, lost. Lottery pick, which became Kanter, who also has huge upside (not saying that just because he's my compatriot), lost.

And you get one of the best PGs in the league in return, if not the best. There is a very strong chance that he is also going to be gone anyway, so, Nets screwed it up big time.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: snively on May 04, 2012, 06:46:15 PM
Deron Williams fetched Harris, Favors (a more valuable prospect than Hayward), the pick that became Kanter (also more valuable than Hayward) and the GSW lottery pick (probably a little better value than Hayward).

Rondo's not quite as valuable as D-Will, but we're not talking about a gap that's almost 3 high lottery picks big. 

That was a terrible trade looking from the Nets perspective.
Starter material in Harris, lost. A freaking potential in Favors, lost. Lottery pick, which became Kanter, who also has huge upside (not saying that just because he's my compatriot), lost.

And you get one of the best PGs in the league in return, if not the best. There is a very strong chance that he is also going to be gone anyway, so, Nets screwed it up big time.


The point is, that's what it took to get a young all-star PG with more than a year on his deal.

D-Will's more valuable, but it gives a ballpark for what Danny would be looking for in a Rondo deal if he wasn't getting a better player back (a la CP3).
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LooseCannon on May 04, 2012, 07:18:53 PM
That was a terrible trade looking from the Nets perspective.

The Nets aren't know for making good trades.  For example, the Gerald Wallace trade seems to be universally criticized as stupid.

Maybe the best GM in the world is the one who can make the most trades with the Knicks and Nets.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BballTim on May 04, 2012, 07:24:15 PM
I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8
they are realistic.  I've brought up the Calderon concept before.  The idea is that although Rondo is a fantastic distributor and 'setup guy', he's actually a fairly limited offensive player.  When you have a star like Paul Pierce playing at a star level, you actually don't necessarily NEED Rondo.  Pierce is comfortable having the ball flow through him... and he has a tendency to step his game up with Rondo out... which is why we won game 2 and why we had a winning record when Rondo sat this year.


  Any good/great scorer will "step up" when you give them the ball every time up the court. AI made a career of that. What matters is how the team's offense is. The offense is better when PP has the ball less and Rondo has it more.

I worry about how Rondo will perform when the guys he distributes the ball to (Ray, KG, and Pierce) retire.  What happens when he no longer has 3 hall-of-famers surrounding him... what happens when the Celtics ask him to be a primary scorer and the guy can't shoot... what happens when teams start doubling him like they do Rose, Chris Paul and Deron Williams?   Rondo is fantastic in his role right now, because he has elite scorers around him... but what happens when the elite scorers disappear?  

  Are you really worried about what will happen to Rondo's assist total when Ray's not playing? Because the answer seems to be "best in the league by a pretty wide margin". Rondo's assists seem to be just as plentiful when you take those "elite scorers" away. He also seems to be able to score more when one or more of the big three are out, and he also ups his scoring by quite a bit in the playoffs. So, while you may worry that Rondo's numbers will all drop without the big three, all evidence seems to point to the contrary. One thing seems to be fairly obvious though. If other teams double Rondo, he'll run away with the assist title.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: KGs Knee on May 05, 2012, 10:48:59 AM
Trade Rondo?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

Somebody's smoking that wacky tabaccy.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 05, 2012, 03:12:25 PM
I don't worry about the Big Three retiring like some here.   Rondo makes people around him better.   He can affect a game in a myriad of ways.   What he can't do is dominate score and close games or shoot clutch free throws but he excels at passing, defense and rebounds.   The plusses far exceed the minuses with Rondo.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: nickagneta on May 05, 2012, 04:11:21 PM
I don't worry about the Big Three retiring like some here.   Rondo makes people around him better.   He can affect a game in a myriad of ways.   What he can't do is dominate score and close games or shoot clutch free throws but he excels at passing, defense and rebounds.   The plusses far exceed the minuses with Rondo.
I credit a lot of Bradley's success to being around and on the floor with Rondo.

Rondo knows where his teammates like the ball and delivers it there better perhaps than any guard in the league. He has befriended Bradley and gets Avery open looks at the corner three and at the foul line extended, areas Bradley has excelled at dropping shots in.

He also runs the floor excellently with Bradley and their ability to guard together is awesome.

Without Rondo's and Dooling's influence on Bradley this year, I don't think develops as quickly as he did. Gotta keep Rondo and Bradley and give them a couple of years to develop chemistry as a duo. Do that and in a couple of years and along with Harden/Westbrook, you might be looking at the best overall back court in the league.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: dark_lord on May 05, 2012, 04:14:18 PM
for who?!  u dont trade a guy of rondo's ability for the sake of trading him. problem with proposing a rondo trade is that he is underrated nationally and overrated locally.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: OmarSekou on May 05, 2012, 04:35:51 PM
We need to ship him out. All these guys who are publicly supporting him, secretly hate him. Doc can't stand coaching him. The Big 3 can't stand playing with him. Who cares if he's talented?

And he's not even that good. People need to stop focusing on the assists and start focusing on the turnovers. Bassy Telfair could've averaged a triple double if we let him hog the ball like Rondo. Moore's probably better than him already.

I love Rondo, I think he's a great player. He's supremely talented. But he's the worst player I've ever seen and we'd be better without him.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: KGs Knee on May 05, 2012, 05:10:01 PM
It's not always easy to tell on the internet, but I sincerely hope the above post is sarcasm.

Otherwise, well let's just say I'd get banned if I spoke my mind.  Unreal.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Yogi on May 05, 2012, 05:22:01 PM
We need to ship him out. All these guys who are publicly supporting him, secretly hate him. Doc can't stand coaching him. The Big 3 can't stand playing with him. Who cares if he's talented?

And he's not even that good. People need to stop focusing on the assists and start focusing on the turnovers. Bassy Telfair could've averaged a triple double if we let him hog the ball like Rondo. Moore's probably better than him already.

I love Rondo, I think he's a great player. He's supremely talented. But he's the worst player I've ever seen and we'd be better without him.
After tallying votes, by an astounding 455 point victory, we have our MSP.  Most sarcastic (or silly) poster.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: OttawaCeltic on May 17, 2012, 05:42:02 PM
I would actually trade Mr.Trip-Dub+Bass for a Josh Smith+T-Mac package or a Conley+Gasol package.

Ohh, and a BIG POINT FROM THIS TOPIC, FOCUS ON TRADING RAY ALLEN THE MOST. THIS GUY LOOKS LIKE A CERTIFIED SCRUB BY NOT 'BEING HIMSELF'!!!!!(note his shooting %s and stop using the excuse of being injury plagued, its not like he uses his legs for his free-throw style that much)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 17, 2012, 06:08:16 PM
It really depends on what happens with this team during the offseason.  If KG and Ray call it quits... I'm not sure we can field a team anywhere near as good as this one with the current free agent landscape.  Most of the free agents are restricted.  People keep mentioning names like Eric Gordon, Hibbert, McGee... etc.  They are all restricted.  You can't realistically sign any of them.  After Deron Williams I think the best unrestricted free agent is probably Chris Kaman or something.  Actually... after Deron Williams the best unrestricted free agents are KG and Ray... THEN Chris Kaman. 

So if we lose the MVP of the team (KG) and Ray... we are heading for a rebuild.  I don't necessarily WANT to trade Rondo... I think he can continue putting up huge assist numbers with the right system and teammates.  I'm just saying... there are some trades I'd have to consider IN CONTEXT. 

Example, IN CONTEXT.  If KG and Ray flee and Deron Williams is willing to sign with Boston... would you hypothetically trade Rondo for a big man?  Al Jefferson?  Josh Smith?  What about a big man and a 1st rounder?  If Deron is willing to sign here on the condition of Dwight being in Boston, would you consider Rondo + both our first rounders for Dwight HOward? 

Would you consider moving Rondo for a guy still on his rookie contract or a top 5 pick in this draft?...  Example... Demarcus Cousins.  Yes, I completely realize that Cousins is a headcase... that's why the trade is borderline thinkable... no way Sac would move Cousins if he WASN'T a headcase.  Dude averages 18 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 1.2 blocks in 30.5 minutes as a 21 year old 7 foot 270 pound center.  Trading Rondo for cousins would free up another 7 mil or so in cap space.  If you have another point guard (like Deron) lined up or somehow land another young guard in the draft (trading multiple picks for Austin Rivers, for example), does that make sense?  Would trading Rondo for Steph Curry (freeing up another 7 mil in cap space) make sense if you have a big move planned to utilize that extra cap space?  What if that extra 7 mil in cap space is the difference in bringing back KG, Ray AND having enough money to sign a max contract guy (Deron Williams).  PG - Williams, SG - Ray/Bradley, SF - Pierce/Jeff Green, PF - KG, C - Cousins...   Dunno.

Again... I don't want to trade Rondo for the sake of trading Rondo.  But you'd have to consider the right trade in context.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Smokeeye123 on May 17, 2012, 06:47:21 PM
for who?!  u dont trade a guy of rondo's ability for the sake of trading him. problem with proposing a rondo trade is that he is underrated nationally and overrated locally.



I think you have it backwards actually. Nationally everyone knows he is a very good player. Bit of a headcase, but so are most of the League's stars. Other GMs and owners know how willing the Celtics are to trade Rondo and get good players back, so they hold back to try and wait for the best trade possible.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Smokeeye123 on May 17, 2012, 06:50:33 PM
We need to ship him out. All these guys who are publicly supporting him, secretly hate him. Doc can't stand coaching him. The Big 3 can't stand playing with him. Who cares if he's talented?

And he's not even that good. People need to stop focusing on the assists and start focusing on the turnovers. Bassy Telfair could've averaged a triple double if we let him hog the ball like Rondo. Moore's probably better than him already.

I love Rondo, I think he's a great player. He's supremely talented. But he's the worst player I've ever seen and we'd be better without him.

Was about to write a paragraph or two explaining why you are so wrong, but then I read that you think Moore is better than him and realized this MUST be a joke.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on May 17, 2012, 08:55:36 PM
Trade DOC for Popovich...!
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics18 on May 18, 2012, 10:52:22 AM
It really depends on what happens with this team during the offseason.  If KG and Ray call it quits... I'm not sure we can field a team anywhere near as good as this one with the current free agent landscape.  Most of the free agents are restricted.  People keep mentioning names like Eric Gordon, Hibbert, McGee... etc.  They are all restricted.  You can't realistically sign any of them.  After Deron Williams I think the best unrestricted free agent is probably Chris Kaman or something.  Actually... after Deron Williams the best unrestricted free agents are KG and Ray... THEN Chris Kaman. 

So if we lose the MVP of the team (KG) and Ray... we are heading for a rebuild.  I don't necessarily WANT to trade Rondo... I think he can continue putting up huge assist numbers with the right system and teammates.  I'm just saying... there are some trades I'd have to consider IN CONTEXT. 

Example, IN CONTEXT.  If KG and Ray flee and Deron Williams is willing to sign with Boston... would you hypothetically trade Rondo for a big man?  Al Jefferson?  Josh Smith?  What about a big man and a 1st rounder?  If Deron is willing to sign here on the condition of Dwight being in Boston, would you consider Rondo + both our first rounders for Dwight HOward? 

Would you consider moving Rondo for a guy still on his rookie contract or a top 5 pick in this draft?...  Example... Demarcus Cousins.  Yes, I completely realize that Cousins is a headcase... that's why the trade is borderline thinkable... no way Sac would move Cousins if he WASN'T a headcase.  Dude averages 18 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 1.2 blocks in 30.5 minutes as a 21 year old 7 foot 270 pound center.  Trading Rondo for cousins would free up another 7 mil or so in cap space.  If you have another point guard (like Deron) lined up or somehow land another young guard in the draft (trading multiple picks for Austin Rivers, for example), does that make sense?  Would trading Rondo for Steph Curry (freeing up another 7 mil in cap space) make sense if you have a big move planned to utilize that extra cap space?  What if that extra 7 mil in cap space is the difference in bringing back KG, Ray AND having enough money to sign a max contract guy (Deron Williams).  PG - Williams, SG - Ray/Bradley, SF - Pierce/Jeff Green, PF - KG, C - Cousins...   Dunno.

Again... I don't want to trade Rondo for the sake of trading Rondo.  But you'd have to consider the right trade in context.

Can you even make a straight up deal for either Cousins or Curry?  I know the salary matching provisions have been loosened with the new CBA, but I don't think they've been loosened that much.  Please, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.  What are the rules? 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: apc on May 18, 2012, 11:08:33 AM
Trade DOC for Popovich...!
Moore and JJJ are onboard for this trade  ;D
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Kane3387 on May 18, 2012, 11:36:47 AM
It really depends on what happens with this team during the offseason.  If KG and Ray call it quits... I'm not sure we can field a team anywhere near as good as this one with the current free agent landscape.  Most of the free agents are restricted.  People keep mentioning names like Eric Gordon, Hibbert, McGee... etc.  They are all restricted.  You can't realistically sign any of them.  After Deron Williams I think the best unrestricted free agent is probably Chris Kaman or something.  Actually... after Deron Williams the best unrestricted free agents are KG and Ray... THEN Chris Kaman. 

So if we lose the MVP of the team (KG) and Ray... we are heading for a rebuild.  I don't necessarily WANT to trade Rondo... I think he can continue putting up huge assist numbers with the right system and teammates.  I'm just saying... there are some trades I'd have to consider IN CONTEXT. 

Example, IN CONTEXT.  If KG and Ray flee and Deron Williams is willing to sign with Boston... would you hypothetically trade Rondo for a big man?  Al Jefferson?  Josh Smith?  What about a big man and a 1st rounder?  If Deron is willing to sign here on the condition of Dwight being in Boston, would you consider Rondo + both our first rounders for Dwight HOward? 

Would you consider moving Rondo for a guy still on his rookie contract or a top 5 pick in this draft?...  Example... Demarcus Cousins.  Yes, I completely realize that Cousins is a headcase... that's why the trade is borderline thinkable... no way Sac would move Cousins if he WASN'T a headcase.  Dude averages 18 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 1.2 blocks in 30.5 minutes as a 21 year old 7 foot 270 pound center.  Trading Rondo for cousins would free up another 7 mil or so in cap space.  If you have another point guard (like Deron) lined up or somehow land another young guard in the draft (trading multiple picks for Austin Rivers, for example), does that make sense?  Would trading Rondo for Steph Curry (freeing up another 7 mil in cap space) make sense if you have a big move planned to utilize that extra cap space?  What if that extra 7 mil in cap space is the difference in bringing back KG, Ray AND having enough money to sign a max contract guy (Deron Williams).  PG - Williams, SG - Ray/Bradley, SF - Pierce/Jeff Green, PF - KG, C - Cousins...   Dunno.

Again... I don't want to trade Rondo for the sake of trading Rondo.  But you'd have to consider the right trade in context.

The Williams signing and trading for Howard is a no brainer. Love Rondo too, but I got to say good luck and take care on that scenario. Don't see it happening though.

As far as any other trade I just don't see anything being out there unless Miami wants to send us Wade for Rondo and a Ray S + T.

I mean let's be real. Rondo is a borderline superstar and if he was more consistent then he would be one. That being said he is a perennial all star and those don't grow on trees. Point being there aren't many players to trade him for and getting proper value in return for him would be very difficult. I think we keep Rondo and his friendly contract. Maybe it doesn't happen this year but in the in the next year or two we try and use some of our young assets along with cap space to put pieces next to Rondo. At 26 he is still a year or two away from his prime.

Tony Parker just turned 30 and had a MVP caliber year with Tim Duncan as his second best player. Patience is needed in this transition.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LooseCannon on May 18, 2012, 11:45:46 AM
Someone should propose a Rondo for Wade or Bynum deal just to rile up the board some more.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: nickagneta on May 18, 2012, 12:36:00 PM
Well what team's need a PG that would trade for him?

I say all these say no:

Philly- Jrue Holiday
Chicago - Rose
Milwaukee - Jennings/Ellis
Cleveland - Irving
Detroit - Knight
Atlanta - Teague
Washington - Wall
OKC - Westbrook
Denver - Lawson
Minny - Rubio
LAC - Paul
GSW - Curry
Sactown - Thomas
Spurs - Parker
Houston - Lowry/Dragic
Memphis - Conley
Toronto - Calderon

That leaves
New York - though they may be good with giving Lin another shot
New Jersey - if they can't resign Williams
Indiana - who seems to be thriving in the playoffs with George Hill
Miami - who only has one of their top three to offer and doesn't need a pass first PG because of their ridiculous offensive system
Orlando - who would only offer Ryan Anderson
Charlotte - who has nothing to offer
Utah
Portland - who wouldn't give up Aldridge for Rondo
Lakers - Bynum?
Phoenix - would love him to replace Nash but has nothing to send back
Dallas - only if they don't sign Williams
New Orleans

Given Williams and nash are free agents that takes two teams out of the market.

So who's left that would want an All-Star PG at $10-11 million a year that would give up equal talent in return?

Not a lot. So I think Rondo stays.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: slamtheking on May 18, 2012, 12:59:37 PM
Well what team's need a PG that would trade for him?

I say all these say no:
Philly- Jrue Holiday
Chicago - Rose
Milwaukee - Jennings/Ellis
Cleveland - Irving
Detroit - Knight
Atlanta - Teague
Washington - Wall
OKC - Westbrook
Denver - Lawson
Minny - Rubio
LAC - Paul
GSW - Curry
Sactown - Thomas
Spurs - Parker
Houston - Lowry/Dragic
Memphis - Conley
Toronto - Calderon

That leaves
New York - though they may be good with giving Lin another shot
New Jersey - if they can't resign Williams
Indiana - who seems to be thriving in the playoffs with George Hill
Miami - who only has one of their top three to offer and doesn't need a pass first PG because of their ridiculous offensive system
Orlando - who would only offer Ryan Anderson
Charlotte - who has nothing to offer
Utah
Portland - who wouldn't give up Aldridge for Rondo
Lakers - Bynum?
Phoenix - would love him to replace Nash but has nothing to send back
Dallas - only if they don't sign Williams
New Orleans
Given Williams and nash are free agents that takes two teams out of the market.
So who's left that would want an All-Star PG at $10-11 million a year that would give up equal talent in return?
Not a lot. So I think Rondo stays.
I think you're overestimating the worth of some of those other PGs.  Rondo is better than these established players you've listed.
Houston - Lowry/Dragic
Memphis - Conley
Toronto - Calderon
Philly- Jrue Holiday
Milwaukee - Jennings/Ellis
Detroit - Knight
Atlanta - Teague
Denver - Lawson
GSW - Curry
Sactown - Thomas (well, not established but no all-star)

I could understand if those teams thought these guys were effective enough for their price but they're not better than Rondo.  Also, Wall, Irving and Rubio are on rookie deals and would be understandable for those teams to hold on to based on projected development and cost.  Even Parker is debatable based on health and age.

I think there's a lot of teams that would be improved if they had Rondo over their current PG it's a matter of whether that team wants that upgrade and if they're compatible trading partners.

I for one want to keep Rondo simply because he impacts so many facets of the game, is unselfish with the ball, is durable and has the ability to take over a game at times.  The list of PGs with those qualities is [dang] short.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: scaryjerry on May 18, 2012, 01:49:13 PM
I would actually trade Mr.Trip-Dub+Bass for a Josh Smith+T-Mac package or a Conley+Gasol package.

Ohh, and a BIG POINT FROM THIS TOPIC, FOCUS ON TRADING RAY ALLEN THE MOST. THIS GUY LOOKS LIKE A CERTIFIED SCRUB BY NOT 'BEING HIMSELF'!!!!!(note his shooting %s and stop using the excuse of being injury plagued, its not like he uses his legs for his free-throw style that much)


 :o
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: nickagneta on May 18, 2012, 02:09:02 PM
Well what team's need a PG that would trade for him?

I say all these say no:
Philly- Jrue Holiday
Chicago - Rose
Milwaukee - Jennings/Ellis
Cleveland - Irving
Detroit - Knight
Atlanta - Teague
Washington - Wall
OKC - Westbrook
Denver - Lawson
Minny - Rubio
LAC - Paul
GSW - Curry
Sactown - Thomas
Spurs - Parker
Houston - Lowry/Dragic
Memphis - Conley
Toronto - Calderon

That leaves
New York - though they may be good with giving Lin another shot
New Jersey - if they can't resign Williams
Indiana - who seems to be thriving in the playoffs with George Hill
Miami - who only has one of their top three to offer and doesn't need a pass first PG because of their ridiculous offensive system
Orlando - who would only offer Ryan Anderson
Charlotte - who has nothing to offer
Utah
Portland - who wouldn't give up Aldridge for Rondo
Lakers - Bynum?
Phoenix - would love him to replace Nash but has nothing to send back
Dallas - only if they don't sign Williams
New Orleans
Given Williams and nash are free agents that takes two teams out of the market.
So who's left that would want an All-Star PG at $10-11 million a year that would give up equal talent in return?
Not a lot. So I think Rondo stays.
I think you're overestimating the worth of some of those other PGs.  Rondo is better than these established players you've listed.
Houston - Lowry/Dragic
Memphis - Conley
Toronto - Calderon
Philly- Jrue Holiday
Milwaukee - Jennings/Ellis
Detroit - Knight
Atlanta - Teague
Denver - Lawson
GSW - Curry
Sactown - Thomas (well, not established but no all-star)

I could understand if those teams thought these guys were effective enough for their price but they're not better than Rondo.  Also, Wall, Irving and Rubio are on rookie deals and would be understandable for those teams to hold on to based on projected development and cost.  Even Parker is debatable based on health and age.

I think there's a lot of teams that would be improved if they had Rondo over their current PG it's a matter of whether that team wants that upgrade and if they're compatible trading partners.

I for one want to keep Rondo simply because he impacts so many facets of the game, is unselfish with the ball, is durable and has the ability to take over a game at times.  The list of PGs with those qualities is [dang] short.
Just because Rondo is better than those players, doesn't mean they are in the market for an upgrade in the PG area of their team. Most of those players are extremely good and highly capable of being the starting PG on a contending team. Therefore, it most likely their GMs will be looking for something besides a PG to attempt to take them to the next level. Thats all I am saying. They probably arent in the market for a PG.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on May 18, 2012, 02:16:34 PM
(http://media.onsugar.com/files/2011/05/18/6/1632/16329924/07/639_tommy-lee-jones-serious.gif)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Smokeeye123 on May 18, 2012, 02:27:38 PM
*edit*
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: bdm860 on May 18, 2012, 03:02:00 PM
Well what team's need a PG that would trade for him?

I say all these say no:
Philly- Jrue Holiday
Chicago - Rose
Milwaukee - Jennings/Ellis
Cleveland - Irving
Detroit - Knight
Atlanta - Teague
Washington - Wall
OKC - Westbrook
Denver - Lawson
Minny - Rubio
LAC - Paul
GSW - Curry
Sactown - Thomas
Spurs - Parker
Houston - Lowry/Dragic
Memphis - Conley
Toronto - Calderon

That leaves
New York - though they may be good with giving Lin another shot
New Jersey - if they can't resign Williams
Indiana - who seems to be thriving in the playoffs with George Hill
Miami - who only has one of their top three to offer and doesn't need a pass first PG because of their ridiculous offensive system
Orlando - who would only offer Ryan Anderson
Charlotte - who has nothing to offer
Utah
Portland - who wouldn't give up Aldridge for Rondo
Lakers - Bynum?
Phoenix - would love him to replace Nash but has nothing to send back
Dallas - only if they don't sign Williams
New Orleans
Given Williams and nash are free agents that takes two teams out of the market.
So who's left that would want an All-Star PG at $10-11 million a year that would give up equal talent in return?
Not a lot. So I think Rondo stays.
I think you're overestimating the worth of some of those other PGs.  Rondo is better than these established players you've listed.
Houston - Lowry/Dragic
Memphis - Conley
Toronto - Calderon
Philly- Jrue Holiday
Milwaukee - Jennings/Ellis
Detroit - Knight
Atlanta - Teague
Denver - Lawson
GSW - Curry
Sactown - Thomas (well, not established but no all-star)

I could understand if those teams thought these guys were effective enough for their price but they're not better than Rondo.  Also, Wall, Irving and Rubio are on rookie deals and would be understandable for those teams to hold on to based on projected development and cost.  Even Parker is debatable based on health and age.

I think there's a lot of teams that would be improved if they had Rondo over their current PG it's a matter of whether that team wants that upgrade and if they're compatible trading partners.

I for one want to keep Rondo simply because he impacts so many facets of the game, is unselfish with the ball, is durable and has the ability to take over a game at times.  The list of PGs with those qualities is [dang] short.
Just because Rondo is better than those players, doesn't mean they are in the market for an upgrade in the PG area of their team. Most of those players are extremely good and highly capable of being the starting PG on a contending team. Therefore, it most likely their GMs will be looking for something besides a PG to attempt to take them to the next level. Thats all I am saying. They probably arent in the market for a PG.

Nick, I completely disagree with your rationale about teams that could be in the market for Rondo (although I don't think he should be traded, and the idea we need to move him is silly to me).

Except for Chicago and LAC who have superstar point guards, I could see any team being open to trading for Rondo.  Even a team like OKC (though highly doubtful, it could happen if they needed to trim payroll swapping Westbrooks's $16m for Rondo's $11m).

Just because a team has a serviceable PG, doesn't mean they don't want to improve.  You're telling me if Danny called up Toronto and said would you be interested in a trade centered around Jose Calderon and another asset for Rondo, they wouldn't listen?

We all know Atlanta needs to desperately shake things up, but they wouldn't be open to trading Teague and another asset for Rondo?

We just almost traded Ray Allen for another SG.  Though by your rationale, that trade would never have been discussed because both teams were already set at SG.

Off the top of my head, look at all these PG's traded for another PG in the somewhat recent past.  But none of these trades would have happened if every team just went down the list and eliminated possible trades for teams that already had a serviceable player at that position:

Jason Kidd for Stephon Marbury
Sam Cassell for Jason Kidd
Sam Cassell for Terrell Brandon for Stephon Marbury
Kenny Anderson for Damon Stoudamire
Chauncey Billups for Kenny Anderson
Mike Bibby for Jason Williams
Rafer Alston for Mike James

25+ teams will be looking to shake things up in the off-season to try to improve their team, and just about everybody on their roster is fair game.  Sometimes a good player gets traded for a player that plays the same position.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on May 18, 2012, 03:05:05 PM
Rondo has to be traded in exchange for an All star caliber PG or a very high value package. That's it. Trying to trade him for less is dumb.

If we are getting Kyle Lowry + a player + Houston's 2012 first or Jose Calderon + Toronto's 2012 1st + a player then that i believe is a fair deal. Anything less than that is, well, dumb.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on May 18, 2012, 03:14:37 PM
I think the title of the thread should be edited...

"The Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer"
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics18 on May 18, 2012, 03:35:38 PM
I think the title of the thread should be edited...

"The Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer"

Well done!  Tommy point for you.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 18, 2012, 04:02:13 PM
Quote
All star caliber PG

Rondo is an all star caliber PG!
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: nickagneta on May 18, 2012, 04:03:21 PM
Quote
All star caliber PG

Rondo is an all star caliber PG!
Actually Rondo is an All Star PG.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: kgiessler on May 18, 2012, 04:11:36 PM
Man, the whole premise of this thread and its creation looks down right silly in retrospect.

I'm glad Danny Ainge isn't as reactive as the members of this board.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on May 18, 2012, 04:17:51 PM
Quote
All star caliber PG

Rondo is an all star caliber PG!
Actually Rondo is an All Star PG.

Bingo!
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Josh88 on May 22, 2012, 10:01:15 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 22, 2012, 10:06:32 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
They could take on young players on their rookie contracts.  I proposed a number of trades I think Boston would consider and that the other team would consider that provide an opportunity for Boston to come out ahead long term.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on May 22, 2012, 10:10:53 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
Most guys who make as much as he does are worse players, but there are many maxed out players who I'd take for him.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Josh88 on May 22, 2012, 10:12:33 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
They could take on young players on their rookie contracts.  I proposed a number of trades I think Boston would consider and that the other team would consider that provide an opportunity for Boston to come out ahead long term.

They would have to be paid eventually too, and I can assure you in the long run we'd be paying far more for the level of production than we are with Rondo in any scenario you propose. He's an absolute steal, if Danny had waited one more year to sign him to an extension he'd be a max player. It baffles me how much some Celtics undervalue and under appreciate him. He has his flaws but he's the biggest bargain in the NBA.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Josh88 on May 22, 2012, 10:13:54 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
Most guys who make as much as he does are worse players, but there are many maxed out players who I'd take for him.

No doubt, but how many of those teams would be willing to trade those max players for him without us taking on bad contracts?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: indeedproceed on May 22, 2012, 10:14:06 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on May 22, 2012, 10:15:47 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
They could take on young players on their rookie contracts.  I proposed a number of trades I think Boston would consider and that the other team would consider that provide an opportunity for Boston to come out ahead long term.

They would have to be paid eventually too, and I can assure you in the long run we'd be paying far more for the level of production than we are with Rondo in any scenario you propose. He's an absolute steal, if Danny had waited one more year to sign him to an extension he'd be a max player. It baffles me how much some Celtics undervalue and under appreciate him. He has his flaws but he's the biggest bargain in the NBA.


What Moranis means by coming out ahead long run is being bad for a few years and getting high lottery picks.

So when the young players need to get paid you've gotten two or three big time talents to pair with them.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Josh88 on May 22, 2012, 10:18:40 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Josh88 on May 22, 2012, 10:20:50 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
They could take on young players on their rookie contracts.  I proposed a number of trades I think Boston would consider and that the other team would consider that provide an opportunity for Boston to come out ahead long term.

They would have to be paid eventually too, and I can assure you in the long run we'd be paying far more for the level of production than we are with Rondo in any scenario you propose. He's an absolute steal, if Danny had waited one more year to sign him to an extension he'd be a max player. It baffles me how much some Celtics undervalue and under appreciate him. He has his flaws but he's the biggest bargain in the NBA.


What Moranis means by coming out ahead long run is being bad for a few years and getting high lottery picks.

So when the young players need to get paid you've gotten two or three big time talents to pair with them.

The draft is an absolute crap shoot though, there's no guarantee we'd be ale to draft a player of his caliber with the picks we received.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: wdleehi on May 22, 2012, 10:24:05 AM
It comes down to this.


If Ainge believes:

a)  He can or cannot build a team around Rondo.

b)  If Rondo value is maxed out now and will drop without KG, Ray and Pierce or Rondo's value will remain the same.

c)  Other teams value Rondo enough to give a package Ainge likes long term.





None of us can answer those questions.  Only Ainge can answer them. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: indeedproceed on May 22, 2012, 10:27:46 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.

Iggy's the one guy I think is 'significantly more'.

But I stand by the talent thing..the rest of the guys are all somewhere in the 11's or 12's, but fill different needs, or play differently.

Tony Parker, for instance. Had a better year than Rondo, plays a very different style. Better resume.  
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Josh88 on May 22, 2012, 10:36:03 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.

Iggy's the one guy I think is 'significantly more'.

But I stand by the talent thing..the rest of the guys are all somewhere in the 11's or 12's, but fill different needs, or play differently.

Tony Parker, for instance. Had a better year than Rondo, plays a very different style. Better resume.  
\

Gasol signed a max deal this off season and Aldridge makes almost as much.

Tony Parker is a great player but he's also four years older and has a better resume because he's played with Tim Duncan on very good teams his entire career.

There really is not another player in the league who matches Rondo's production at his salary and age.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: indeedproceed on May 22, 2012, 10:40:52 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.

Iggy's the one guy I think is 'significantly more'.

But I stand by the talent thing..the rest of the guys are all somewhere in the 11's or 12's, but fill different needs, or play differently.

Tony Parker, for instance. Had a better year than Rondo, plays a very different style. Better resume. 
\

Gasol signed a max deal this off season and Aldridge makes almost as much.

Tony Parker is a great player but he's also four years older and has a better resume because he's played with Tim Duncan on very good teams his entire career.

There really is not another player in the league who matches Rondo's production at his salary and age.

Aldridge is right around 12 this season I thought.

Kevin Love's pretty affordable at 14 starting next season. Pretty awesome deal.

But yeah, I'm not knocking that Rondo's age/salary structure make him extremely valuable. I am however saying that he's not untouchable.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Josh88 on May 22, 2012, 10:48:08 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.

Iggy's the one guy I think is 'significantly more'.

But I stand by the talent thing..the rest of the guys are all somewhere in the 11's or 12's, but fill different needs, or play differently.

Tony Parker, for instance. Had a better year than Rondo, plays a very different style. Better resume. 
\

Gasol signed a max deal this off season and Aldridge makes almost as much.

Tony Parker is a great player but he's also four years older and has a better resume because he's played with Tim Duncan on very good teams his entire career.

There really is not another player in the league who matches Rondo's production at his salary and age.

Aldridge is right around 12 this season I thought.

Kevin Love's pretty affordable at 14 starting next season. Pretty awesome deal.

But yeah, I'm not knocking that Rondo's age/salary structure make him extremely valuable. I am however saying that he's not untouchable.

Yes but he's still making $2M more per year than Rondo through this contract and I don't even consider him on Rondo's level. Love is making about $2.7M more per year which I believe is a max extension.

I don't think he's untouchable, I'm just saying he's an absolute bargain and it would be very difficult to receive comparable talent without taking on a good bit more money.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: indeedproceed on May 22, 2012, 11:05:04 AM
Yes but he's still making $2M more per year than Rondo through this contract and I don't even consider him on Rondo's level. Love is making about $2.7M more per year which I believe is a max extension.

I think you're significantly underrating Aldridge. This season sucked but he's a baller.

Also, KYLE MOTHALOVING LOWERYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Absent a freak stomach virus that sidelined him a lot of the season, he was the leader of a team that looked like it was a playoff lock (until he went down), putting in 14 pts, 6.6 assists, 4.5 boards, 41% shooting (not great), 37.4% 3pt shooting (decent), 4.2 FTA's per game (at 86% shooting), and all in just 32 minutes.

Couple that with the fact that he's a all-nba level talent defensively and he is locked up for the next 3 years at like 17 million total or something (or right around 6 million per).

Kyle Lowry.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on May 22, 2012, 11:08:55 AM
Yes but he's still making $2M more per year than Rondo through this contract and I don't even consider him on Rondo's level. Love is making about $2.7M more per year which I believe is a max extension.

I think you're significantly underrating Aldridge. This season sucked but he's a baller.

Also, KYLE MOTHALOVING LOWERYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Absent a freak stomach virus that sidelined him a lot of the season, he was the leader of a team that looked like it was a playoff lock (until he went down), putting in 14 pts, 6.6 assists, 4.5 boards, 41% shooting (not great), 37.4% 3pt shooting (decent), 4.2 FTA's per game (at 86% shooting), and all in just 32 minutes.

Couple that with the fact that he's a all-nba level talent defensively and he is locked up for the next 3 years at like 17 million total or something (or right around 6 million per).

Kyle Lowry.


They were a playoff lock after he was gone too, they were a lock till they choked away 6 games in a row and went 2-7 over the last 9 games of the season.

They missed the playoffs by just two games!
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 22, 2012, 11:26:50 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
They could take on young players on their rookie contracts.  I proposed a number of trades I think Boston would consider and that the other team would consider that provide an opportunity for Boston to come out ahead long term.

They would have to be paid eventually too, and I can assure you in the long run we'd be paying far more for the level of production than we are with Rondo in any scenario you propose. He's an absolute steal, if Danny had waited one more year to sign him to an extension he'd be a max player. It baffles me how much some Celtics undervalue and under appreciate him. He has his flaws but he's the biggest bargain in the NBA.


What Moranis means by coming out ahead long run is being bad for a few years and getting high lottery picks.

So when the young players need to get paid you've gotten two or three big time talents to pair with them.
no actually I meant that the two or three assets actually acquired for Rondo exceed his value/production at some point in the future.  The players don't now, but might if they develop like they could.  
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 22, 2012, 11:29:41 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LooseCannon on May 22, 2012, 11:31:04 AM
At this point, I now want to see Rondo plus a bunch of scrubs post Big-Three just to see how good he really would do in that situation.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 22, 2012, 11:43:46 AM
Steve Nash also made about what Rondo made this past season.  Now granted he is old and on the downside, but if you are talking about value, how is that for a 2 time MVP that is still performing.

Westbrook is about 2 million more per year than Rondo, and given his overall scoring prowess, I'd take him over Rondo every day of the week and wouldn't look back (same with Kevin Love).

Bargnani is more than a million less per year than Rondo, and while Rondo is better, he isn't so much better that the value is crazy. 

Rondo has a great contract, no doubt, but it is just silly to argue that there aren't other great contracts out there.  That just isn't true.  Plenty of all star level players, have great contracts.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on May 22, 2012, 11:59:32 AM
Yes but he's still making $2M more per year than Rondo through this contract and I don't even consider him on Rondo's level. Love is making about $2.7M more per year which I believe is a max extension.

I think you're significantly underrating Aldridge. This season sucked but he's a baller.

Also, KYLE MOTHALOVING LOWERYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Absent a freak stomach virus that sidelined him a lot of the season, he was the leader of a team that looked like it was a playoff lock (until he went down), putting in 14 pts, 6.6 assists, 4.5 boards, 41% shooting (not great), 37.4% 3pt shooting (decent), 4.2 FTA's per game (at 86% shooting), and all in just 32 minutes.

Couple that with the fact that he's a all-nba level talent defensively and he is locked up for the next 3 years at like 17 million total or something (or right around 6 million per).

Kyle Lowry.



Lowry + 1st for Rondo. That's the deal right there.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: KCattheStripe on May 22, 2012, 12:07:17 PM
Yes but he's still making $2M more per year than Rondo through this contract and I don't even consider him on Rondo's level. Love is making about $2.7M more per year which I believe is a max extension.

I think you're significantly underrating Aldridge. This season sucked but he's a baller.

Also, KYLE MOTHALOVING LOWERYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Absent a freak stomach virus that sidelined him a lot of the season, he was the leader of a team that looked like it was a playoff lock (until he went down), putting in 14 pts, 6.6 assists, 4.5 boards, 41% shooting (not great), 37.4% 3pt shooting (decent), 4.2 FTA's per game (at 86% shooting), and all in just 32 minutes.

Couple that with the fact that he's a all-nba level talent defensively and he is locked up for the next 3 years at like 17 million total or something (or right around 6 million per).

Kyle Lowry.



Lowry + 1st for Rondo. That's the deal right there.

Kyle Lowry: Making people say, " Oh Yeah, I remember when he was supposed to be good." since 2009.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: contramundum on May 22, 2012, 12:13:56 PM
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/613/haterblockers.jpg)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Josh88 on May 22, 2012, 12:16:58 PM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 22, 2012, 12:29:12 PM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LooseCannon on May 22, 2012, 12:36:00 PM
Bargnani, are you kidding me?

Heh, the one 7-footer who might actually be a worse rebounder than Ryan Hollins.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 22, 2012, 12:44:07 PM
Bargnani, are you kidding me?

Heh, the one 7-footer who might actually be a worse rebounder than Ryan Hollins.
Nope, at least not by rebound rate.  Of course Bargnani is a SF and a pretty solid scorer.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on May 22, 2012, 12:46:30 PM
Bargnani, are you kidding me?

Heh, the one 7-footer who might actually be a worse rebounder than Ryan Hollins.
Nope, at least not by rebound rate.  Of course Bargnani is a SF and a pretty solid scorer.
A SF who has to play C on the defensive end, which is a big problem because he's really bad at everything but 1 on 1 post defense.

His offensive value is offset by his defensive liabilities, Dirk lite with worse team defense.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 22, 2012, 02:08:37 PM
Bargnani, are you kidding me?

Heh, the one 7-footer who might actually be a worse rebounder than Ryan Hollins.
Nope, at least not by rebound rate.  Of course Bargnani is a SF and a pretty solid scorer.
A SF who has to play C on the defensive end, which is a big problem because he's really bad at everything but 1 on 1 post defense.

His offensive value is offset by his defensive liabilities, Dirk lite with worse team defense.
Apt comparison, but put Dirk lite on a team with better teammates, and he can be very valuable. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BballTim on May 22, 2012, 02:17:11 PM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

  The team that gets the best player generally wins the trade. Sending Rondo away for a couple of halfway decent players is going in the wrong direction for the team.

Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on May 22, 2012, 02:20:34 PM
Bargnani, are you kidding me?

Heh, the one 7-footer who might actually be a worse rebounder than Ryan Hollins.
Nope, at least not by rebound rate.  Of course Bargnani is a SF and a pretty solid scorer.
A SF who has to play C on the defensive end, which is a big problem because he's really bad at everything but 1 on 1 post defense.

His offensive value is offset by his defensive liabilities, Dirk lite with worse team defense.
Apt comparison, but put Dirk lite on a team with better teammates, and he can be very valuable. 
So was Troy Murphy for a period of time. Bargs is a role player who gives up as much defensive and on the glass as he scores, but he's paid like an all-star. That's a problem for any team winning with him on the roster.

Dirk lite could work if he wasn't Dirk lite in every aspect of the game. He scores worse, defends worse, and boards worse than 33 year old Dirk let alone young Dirk....
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Potapenko Boxout on May 22, 2012, 02:57:45 PM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

  The team that gets the best player generally wins the trade. Sending Rondo away for a couple of halfway decent players is going in the wrong direction for the team.




Rondo for Mike Conley and OJ Mayo? Come on. Let's start banning people `
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Donoghus on May 22, 2012, 03:09:11 PM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

  The team that gets the best player generally wins the trade. Sending Rondo away for a couple of halfway decent players is going in the wrong direction for the team.



Not to mention how you get stuck in NBA purgatory.  Low lottery/7-8 seed territory.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 22, 2012, 03:11:43 PM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

  The team that gets the best player generally wins the trade. Sending Rondo away for a couple of halfway decent players is going in the wrong direction for the team.



Not to mention how you get stuck in NBA purgatory.  Low lottery/7-8 seed territory.
Isn't that where the Celtics are going to be anyway, except maybe worse i.e. late lottery/sneaking into the playoffs?  I mean I don't see how that is a better place to be.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BballTim on May 22, 2012, 03:44:21 PM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

  The team that gets the best player generally wins the trade. Sending Rondo away for a couple of halfway decent players is going in the wrong direction for the team.



Not to mention how you get stuck in NBA purgatory.  Low lottery/7-8 seed territory.
Isn't that where the Celtics are going to be anyway, except maybe worse i.e. late lottery/sneaking into the playoffs?  I mean I don't see how that is a better place to be.

  I think a lot of people assume that since they don't know what moves Danny might make, he won't make any moves of note. Beyond that, we could easily be as good or better next year than we were over the  last 2.5 months or so, I don't see a need to get away from that in order to trade Rondo for Conley and Mayo.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Donoghus on May 22, 2012, 03:51:06 PM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

  The team that gets the best player generally wins the trade. Sending Rondo away for a couple of halfway decent players is going in the wrong direction for the team.



Not to mention how you get stuck in NBA purgatory.  Low lottery/7-8 seed territory.
Isn't that where the Celtics are going to be anyway, except maybe worse i.e. late lottery/sneaking into the playoffs?  I mean I don't see how that is a better place to be.

Where is that written in stone if they keep Rondo and their current salary cap situation heading into this offseason & 2013?

And where is the guarantee that it wouldn't be that case with a trade like the one mentioned?

I just don't see the need to trade Rondo where its pretty clear that they won't get equal value in return.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 22, 2012, 04:41:09 PM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production
It's a fair point.   If you look at pure "production" (Points + assists + rebounds + blocks + steals ... subtract missed shots and turnovers), Rondo was the 29th most productive player in the league this year.

Of the 28 players who were "more productive" than Rondo... the following are still on their rookie contracts:  Blake Griffin, Westbrook, Cousins, Greg Monroe.  Rookie contract guys who were slightly "less productive" than Rondo were Ty Lawson, John Wall, Kyrie Irving, Brandon Jennings and Steph Curry.

Of the 28 players who were "more productive" than Rondo only the following players are paid less.  Paul Milisap (8 mil a year), Marcin Gortat (6-7 mil per year), Kris Humphries (8 mil per year).  Of course, that has a lot to with big men being the most productive players in the league... clearly you would NEVER swap out Rondo for Kris Humphries despite that fact that Humphries (14 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.2 blocks and a steal with 48% shooting and 75% from the line) compared to Rondo (12 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds, 2 steals, 45% shooting, 60% from the line) ever so slightly favors Humphries.  Of course if you put more value on an assist than a rebound, that changes significantly, but I that's besides the point.  

Of the 28 players "more productive" than Rondo, here are the guys who have comparable contracts (FYI, these days you can take back 150% of a salary you send out.  So although these are considered "higher", you could still probably trade Rondo straight up for them):  Kevin Love (14-17 mil), Big Al (14-15 mil), Aldridge (14-16 mil), David Lee (11-15 mil), Josh Smith (12-13 mil), Marc Gasol (13-16 mil), Tyson Chandler (13-14 mil).....   And here are the guys slightly less productive than Rondo:  Varejao (8-10 mil), Steve Nash (11 mil), Tony Parker (12 mil), Noah (11-13 mil), Iggy (13-15 mil), Lowry (6 mil), Al HOrford (12 mil), Ellis - (11 mil) ...

Use this data as you see fit.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Donoghus on May 22, 2012, 04:49:33 PM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production
It's a fair point.   If you look at pure "production" (Points + assists + rebounds + blocks + steals ... subtract missed shots and turnovers), Rondo was the 29th most productive player in the league this year.

Of the 28 players who were "more productive" than Rondo... the following are still on their rookie contracts:  Blake Griffin, Westbrook, Cousins, Greg Monroe.  Rookie contract guys who were slightly "less productive" than Rondo were Ty Lawson, John Wall, Kyrie Irving, Brandon Jennings and Steph Curry.

Of the 28 players who were "more productive" than Rondo only the following players are paid less.  Paul Milisap (8 mil a year), Marcin Gortat (6-7 mil per year), Kris Humphries (8 mil per year).  Of course, that has a lot to with big men being the most productive players in the league... clearly you would NEVER swap out Rondo for Kris Humphries despite that fact that Humphries (14 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.2 blocks and a steal with 48% shooting and 75% from the line) compared to Rondo (12 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds, 2 steals, 45% shooting, 60% from the line) ever so slightly favors Humphries.  Of course if you put more value on an assist than a rebound, that changes significantly, but I that's besides the point.  

Of the 28 players "more productive" than Rondo, here are the guys who have comparable contracts (FYI, these days you can take back 150% of a salary you send out.  So although these are considered "higher", you could still probably trade Rondo straight up for them):  Kevin Love (14-17 mil), Big Al (14-15 mil), Aldridge (14-16 mil), David Lee (11-15 mil), Josh Smith (12-13 mil), Marc Gasol (13-16 mil), Tyson Chandler (13-14 mil).....   And here are the guys slightly less productive than Rondo:  Varejao (8-10 mil), Steve Nash (11 mil), Tony Parker (12 mil), Noah (11-13 mil), Iggy (13-15 mil), Lowry (6 mil), Al HOrford (12 mil), Ellis - (11 mil) ...

Use this data as you see fit.

Tells me even more that the Celts have a great deal from a money standpoint with Rondo and you're not going to find equal value for him out there.  Plus, he's a PG.  That's huge from a "can you find talent?" standpoint.

Otherwords, you don't move Rondo. Realistically, you're not going to get a great return for him.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LooseCannon on May 22, 2012, 04:50:46 PM
Bargnani, are you kidding me?

Heh, the one 7-footer who might actually be a worse rebounder than Ryan Hollins.
Nope, at least not by rebound rate.  Of course Bargnani is a SF and a pretty solid scorer.

Bargnani has a lower career rebounding rate, his worst season is lower and his best season is not as high as Hollins, so a case can be made that Bargnani is a worse rebounder.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 22, 2012, 04:51:31 PM
on the topic of trading Rondo, though...

Dwight HOward supposedly still wants a trade:  http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade) ... And supposedly any team willing to take back Hedo is a frontrunner.

Just throwing this out there... Boston will have roughly 25 mil in cap space if they let KG, Ray, Bass, Jeff Green, Pietrus, etc all walk:

Rondo (11 mil next year) + both 1st round picks for Dwight 19.5 mil + Hedo (11.8 mil) actually works.  We're taking on an additional 20 mil, but we'd have the cap space to absorb it.  Of course, this would leave no cap room to sign Deron Williams as a free agent... so that kinda nixes it for me.  That said... if the rumors about KG and Pierce retiring are true... DO IT.  Pierce falling off the books (even via amnesty) would leave enough money to take on Dwight, HEdo AND have enough money to offer Deron a fat contract.

Rondo (11 mil) + draft picks for Dwight (19.5 mil) WITHOUT Hedo would leave enough money for us to offer Deron a lucrative deal.  I'm just sayin... there are not many Rondo trades I'd consider... but bringing in a superstar like Dwight is one I'd have to do.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 22, 2012, 05:26:27 PM
on the topic of trading Rondo, though...

Dwight HOward supposedly still wants a trade:  http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade) ... And supposedly any team willing to take back Hedo is a frontrunner.

Just throwing this out there... Boston will have roughly 25 mil in cap space if they let KG, Ray, Bass, Jeff Green, Pietrus, etc all walk:

Rondo (11 mil next year) + both 1st round picks for Dwight 19.5 mil + Hedo (11.8 mil) actually works.  We're taking on an additional 20 mil, but we'd have the cap space to absorb it.  Of course, this would leave no cap room to sign Deron Williams as a free agent... so that kinda nixes it for me.  That said... if the rumors about KG and Pierce retiring are true... DO IT.  Pierce falling off the books (even via amnesty) would leave enough money to take on Dwight, HEdo AND have enough money to offer Deron a fat contract.

Rondo (11 mil) + draft picks for Dwight (19.5 mil) WITHOUT Hedo would leave enough money for us to offer Deron a lucrative deal.  I'm just sayin... there are not many Rondo trades I'd consider... but bringing in a superstar like Dwight is one I'd have to do.
we don't have cap space until long after the draft so you can't trade the two picks this year unless you trade the actual players. 

And you wouldn't have to amnesty Pierce necessarily as you might be able to just trade him to Orlando (where he might retire and come off their books anyway)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Kane3387 on May 22, 2012, 06:24:09 PM
on the topic of trading Rondo, though...

Dwight HOward supposedly still wants a trade:  http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade) ... And supposedly any team willing to take back Hedo is a frontrunner.

Just throwing this out there... Boston will have roughly 25 mil in cap space if they let KG, Ray, Bass, Jeff Green, Pietrus, etc all walk:

Rondo (11 mil next year) + both 1st round picks for Dwight 19.5 mil + Hedo (11.8 mil) actually works.  We're taking on an additional 20 mil, but we'd have the cap space to absorb it.  Of course, this would leave no cap room to sign Deron Williams as a free agent... so that kinda nixes it for me.  That said... if the rumors about KG and Pierce retiring are true... DO IT.  Pierce falling off the books (even via amnesty) would leave enough money to take on Dwight, HEdo AND have enough money to offer Deron a fat contract.

Rondo (11 mil) + draft picks for Dwight (19.5 mil) WITHOUT Hedo would leave enough money for us to offer Deron a lucrative deal.  I'm just sayin... there are not many Rondo trades I'd consider... but bringing in a superstar like Dwight is one I'd have to do.
we don't have cap space until long after the draft so you can't trade the two picks this year unless you trade the actual players. 

And you wouldn't have to amnesty Pierce necessarily as you might be able to just trade him to Orlando (where he might retire and come off their books anyway)

I think we could be looking at bringing the gang back together for another year plus green some rookies and maybe absorbing a one year deal like Milsap who is around 8.5 mill.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics18 on May 22, 2012, 06:49:05 PM
on the topic of trading Rondo, though...

Dwight HOward supposedly still wants a trade:  http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade) ... And supposedly any team willing to take back Hedo is a frontrunner.

Just throwing this out there... Boston will have roughly 25 mil in cap space if they let KG, Ray, Bass, Jeff Green, Pietrus, etc all walk:

Rondo (11 mil next year) + both 1st round picks for Dwight 19.5 mil + Hedo (11.8 mil) actually works.  We're taking on an additional 20 mil, but we'd have the cap space to absorb it.  Of course, this would leave no cap room to sign Deron Williams as a free agent... so that kinda nixes it for me.  That said... if the rumors about KG and Pierce retiring are true... DO IT.  Pierce falling off the books (even via amnesty) would leave enough money to take on Dwight, HEdo AND have enough money to offer Deron a fat contract.

Rondo (11 mil) + draft picks for Dwight (19.5 mil) WITHOUT Hedo would leave enough money for us to offer Deron a lucrative deal.  I'm just sayin... there are not many Rondo trades I'd consider... but bringing in a superstar like Dwight is one I'd have to do.

I want no part of Dwight Howard.  Even if the Magic where giving him away for nothing, I'm good. 

I don't like his game, his demeanor, or the drama that he seems to create.  Nah, there's other ways to stay competitive, and all of them include keeping Rajon Rondo as our point guard as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 22, 2012, 07:30:37 PM
on the topic of trading Rondo, though...

Dwight HOward supposedly still wants a trade:  http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade) ... And supposedly any team willing to take back Hedo is a frontrunner.

Just throwing this out there... Boston will have roughly 25 mil in cap space if they let KG, Ray, Bass, Jeff Green, Pietrus, etc all walk:

Rondo (11 mil next year) + both 1st round picks for Dwight 19.5 mil + Hedo (11.8 mil) actually works.  We're taking on an additional 20 mil, but we'd have the cap space to absorb it.  Of course, this would leave no cap room to sign Deron Williams as a free agent... so that kinda nixes it for me.  That said... if the rumors about KG and Pierce retiring are true... DO IT.  Pierce falling off the books (even via amnesty) would leave enough money to take on Dwight, HEdo AND have enough money to offer Deron a fat contract.

Rondo (11 mil) + draft picks for Dwight (19.5 mil) WITHOUT Hedo would leave enough money for us to offer Deron a lucrative deal.  I'm just sayin... there are not many Rondo trades I'd consider... but bringing in a superstar like Dwight is one I'd have to do.

I want no part of Dwight Howard.  Even if the Magic where giving him away for nothing, I'm good. 

I don't like his game, his demeanor, or the drama that he seems to create.  Nah, there's other ways to stay competitive, and all of them include keeping Rajon Rondo as our point guard as far as I'm concerned.
LOL... Classic Celtics18.  Bron, Dwight and Chris Paul could all desperately want to play for the celtics and you'd want no part in them because we have Rondo.   ::)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: SHAQATTACK on May 22, 2012, 07:34:05 PM
Yea ...I'd still trade Bass , Hollins, Williams , Streamer and Ray for Howard..... ;D

throw in Dooling .... as a bonus for FREE ;)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 22, 2012, 09:16:08 PM
on the topic of trading Rondo, though...

Dwight HOward supposedly still wants a trade:  http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade) ... And supposedly any team willing to take back Hedo is a frontrunner.

Just throwing this out there... Boston will have roughly 25 mil in cap space if they let KG, Ray, Bass, Jeff Green, Pietrus, etc all walk:

Rondo (11 mil next year) + both 1st round picks for Dwight 19.5 mil + Hedo (11.8 mil) actually works.  We're taking on an additional 20 mil, but we'd have the cap space to absorb it.  Of course, this would leave no cap room to sign Deron Williams as a free agent... so that kinda nixes it for me.  That said... if the rumors about KG and Pierce retiring are true... DO IT.  Pierce falling off the books (even via amnesty) would leave enough money to take on Dwight, HEdo AND have enough money to offer Deron a fat contract.

Rondo (11 mil) + draft picks for Dwight (19.5 mil) WITHOUT Hedo would leave enough money for us to offer Deron a lucrative deal.  I'm just sayin... there are not many Rondo trades I'd consider... but bringing in a superstar like Dwight is one I'd have to do.

I want no part of Dwight Howard.  Even if the Magic where giving him away for nothing, I'm good. 

I don't like his game, his demeanor, or the drama that he seems to create.  Nah, there's other ways to stay competitive, and all of them include keeping Rajon Rondo as our point guard as far as I'm concerned.
LOL... Classic Celtics18.  Bron, Dwight and Chris Paul could all desperately want to play for the celtics and you'd want no part in them because we have Rondo.   ::)
I truly believe there is a good chance that Josh Smith and Dwight Howard both come to Boston in 2013 (if the Celtics can move Pierce and thus have the cap space to sign both).  I think that scenario is probably more likely with Rondo as they both seem to like Rondo, which imo is the biggest reason to keep Rondo around.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics18 on May 22, 2012, 09:43:18 PM
on the topic of trading Rondo, though...

Dwight HOward supposedly still wants a trade:  http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade) ... And supposedly any team willing to take back Hedo is a frontrunner.

Just throwing this out there... Boston will have roughly 25 mil in cap space if they let KG, Ray, Bass, Jeff Green, Pietrus, etc all walk:

Rondo (11 mil next year) + both 1st round picks for Dwight 19.5 mil + Hedo (11.8 mil) actually works.  We're taking on an additional 20 mil, but we'd have the cap space to absorb it.  Of course, this would leave no cap room to sign Deron Williams as a free agent... so that kinda nixes it for me.  That said... if the rumors about KG and Pierce retiring are true... DO IT.  Pierce falling off the books (even via amnesty) would leave enough money to take on Dwight, HEdo AND have enough money to offer Deron a fat contract.

Rondo (11 mil) + draft picks for Dwight (19.5 mil) WITHOUT Hedo would leave enough money for us to offer Deron a lucrative deal.  I'm just sayin... there are not many Rondo trades I'd consider... but bringing in a superstar like Dwight is one I'd have to do.

I want no part of Dwight Howard.  Even if the Magic where giving him away for nothing, I'm good.  

I don't like his game, his demeanor, or the drama that he seems to create.  Nah, there's other ways to stay competitive, and all of them include keeping Rajon Rondo as our point guard as far as I'm concerned.
LOL... Classic Celtics18.  Bron, Dwight and Chris Paul could all desperately want to play for the celtics and you'd want no part in them because we have Rondo.   ::)

I know it's hard to comprehend, but sorry, I would have a very difficult time rooting for the above team even if they were wearing Celtic green.  Maybe it's just me.  Sometimes it seems that way, but there have to be others out there that have a little more old fashioned sense of what being a sports fan is all about.  Or, maybe we all just live in too much of a video/fantasy/talk radio/tabloid sports society to care about any of the ideals of what it is to support a team and its players, and to have players who play for the other teams to root against?

Anyway, laugh away, my friend, laugh away.  

And, by the way, come on now!  "Bron"?  I feel like I might throw up a little.  I hope my new lap top is insured for that.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: More Banners on May 22, 2012, 10:27:30 PM
on the topic of trading Rondo, though...

Dwight HOward supposedly still wants a trade:  http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221167/Source_Dwight_Still_Wants_Trade) ... And supposedly any team willing to take back Hedo is a frontrunner.

Just throwing this out there... Boston will have roughly 25 mil in cap space if they let KG, Ray, Bass, Jeff Green, Pietrus, etc all walk:

Rondo (11 mil next year) + both 1st round picks for Dwight 19.5 mil + Hedo (11.8 mil) actually works.  We're taking on an additional 20 mil, but we'd have the cap space to absorb it.  Of course, this would leave no cap room to sign Deron Williams as a free agent... so that kinda nixes it for me.  That said... if the rumors about KG and Pierce retiring are true... DO IT.  Pierce falling off the books (even via amnesty) would leave enough money to take on Dwight, HEdo AND have enough money to offer Deron a fat contract.

Rondo (11 mil) + draft picks for Dwight (19.5 mil) WITHOUT Hedo would leave enough money for us to offer Deron a lucrative deal.  I'm just sayin... there are not many Rondo trades I'd consider... but bringing in a superstar like Dwight is one I'd have to do.

I want no part of Dwight Howard.  Even if the Magic where giving him away for nothing, I'm good.  

I don't like his game, his demeanor, or the drama that he seems to create.  Nah, there's other ways to stay competitive, and all of them include keeping Rajon Rondo as our point guard as far as I'm concerned.
LOL... Classic Celtics18.  Bron, Dwight and Chris Paul could all desperately want to play for the celtics and you'd want no part in them because we have Rondo.   ::)

I know it's hard to comprehend, but sorry, I would have a very difficult time rooting for the above team even if they were wearing Celtic green.  Maybe it's just me.  Sometimes it seems that way, but there have to be others out there that have a little more old fashioned sense of what being a sports fan is all about.  Or, maybe we all just live in too much of a video/fantasy/talk radio/tabloid sports society to care about any of the ideals of what it is to support a team and its players, and to have players who play for the other teams to root against?

Anyway, laugh away, my friend, laugh away.  

And, by the way, come on now!  "Bron"?  I feel like I might throw up a little.  I hope my new lap top is insured for that.

Need to agree here.  I couldn't root for JO, even as a Celtic, because I just can't stand him or the thug/intimidation game he devolved to when his skills and body failed him.

There are plenty of talented players that just aren't good enough to be Celtics...lump them in with the Wilt Chamberlains if you will.

I want no part of Howard or Lebron, even if they're the best players in the league.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Josh88 on May 23, 2012, 09:09:48 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

Westbrook's new contract is a max deal, as is Kevin's Love. Saying they have better deals than Rondo is equivalent to saying LeBron's contract is better than Rondo's because even though he makes more money he's the best player in the world. It's irrelevant, the fact is that Rondo is the most underpaid all-star in the league who isn't still on their rookie deal. We are very lucky that Danny locked him up when he did and saved us quite a bit of money over the length of the contract. Rondo outperforms many players on max deals.

Trading Rondo for a significantly inferior player plus picks makes no sense. The team who gets the best player in the trade almost always gets the best of the deal in the NBA. The only reason you trade a bonafide star/arguably superstar like Rondo is if he wants out. As long as he wants to stay in Boston on a very reasonable contract we should be happy to have him.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 23, 2012, 09:33:39 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

Westbrook's new contract is a max deal, as is Kevin's Love. Saying they have better deals than Rondo is equivalent to saying LeBron's contract is better than Rondo's because even though he makes more money he's the best player in the world. It's irrelevant, the fact is that Rondo is the most underpaid all-star in the league who isn't still on their rookie deal. We are very lucky that Danny locked him up when he did and saved us quite a bit of money over the length of the contract. Rondo outperforms many players on max deals.

Trading Rondo for a significantly inferior player plus picks makes no sense. The team who gets the best player in the trade almost always gets the best of the deal in the NBA. The only reason you trade a bonafide star/arguably superstar like Rondo is if he wants out. As long as he wants to stay in Boston on a very reasonable contract we should be happy to have him.
Westbrook signed his contract early, he could actually have made a lot more money had he waited to sign the extension.  Isn't that the same thing you are saying with Rondo?  And Lebron didn't actually sign a max deal, all three of the Heat in fact took less money to play together. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Josh88 on May 23, 2012, 09:55:58 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

Westbrook's new contract is a max deal, as is Kevin's Love. Saying they have better deals than Rondo is equivalent to saying LeBron's contract is better than Rondo's because even though he makes more money he's the best player in the world. It's irrelevant, the fact is that Rondo is the most underpaid all-star in the league who isn't still on their rookie deal. We are very lucky that Danny locked him up when he did and saved us quite a bit of money over the length of the contract. Rondo outperforms many players on max deals.

Trading Rondo for a significantly inferior player plus picks makes no sense. The team who gets the best player in the trade almost always gets the best of the deal in the NBA. The only reason you trade a bonafide star/arguably superstar like Rondo is if he wants out. As long as he wants to stay in Boston on a very reasonable contract we should be happy to have him.
Westbrook signed his contract early, he could actually have made a lot more money had he waited to sign the extension.  Isn't that the same thing you are saying with Rondo?  And Lebron didn't actually sign a max deal, all three of the Heat in fact took less money to play together. 

Dwyane Wade took a minor pay cut, as far as I understand it Bosh and LeBron have max deals. That's just untrue about Westbrook, he signed a max extension also.

Rondo signed a 5 year $55 million extension, Westbrook signed a 5 year $78 million extension. If you can't appreciate the difference between those two deals and just how much of a bargain Rondo is then I don't know what else to say. It's pointless to keep repeating myself.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Jesus Shuttlesworth #20 on May 23, 2012, 10:28:29 AM
I agree, the C's should trade Rondo. I was justing thinking about how they can get much worse for next season, this is the answer! Lets trade Pierce too, he is too good, lets say P Double for Maggette? That could work if you want the C's to stink next year.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 23, 2012, 10:29:40 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

Westbrook's new contract is a max deal, as is Kevin's Love. Saying they have better deals than Rondo is equivalent to saying LeBron's contract is better than Rondo's because even though he makes more money he's the best player in the world. It's irrelevant, the fact is that Rondo is the most underpaid all-star in the league who isn't still on their rookie deal. We are very lucky that Danny locked him up when he did and saved us quite a bit of money over the length of the contract. Rondo outperforms many players on max deals.

Trading Rondo for a significantly inferior player plus picks makes no sense. The team who gets the best player in the trade almost always gets the best of the deal in the NBA. The only reason you trade a bonafide star/arguably superstar like Rondo is if he wants out. As long as he wants to stay in Boston on a very reasonable contract we should be happy to have him.
Westbrook signed his contract early, he could actually have made a lot more money had he waited to sign the extension.  Isn't that the same thing you are saying with Rondo?  And Lebron didn't actually sign a max deal, all three of the Heat in fact took less money to play together. 

Dwyane Wade took a minor pay cut, as far as I understand it Bosh and LeBron have max deals. That's just untrue about Westbrook, he signed a max extension also.

Rondo signed a 5 year $55 million extension, Westbrook signed a 5 year $78 million extension. If you can't appreciate the difference between those two deals and just how much of a bargain Rondo is then I don't know what else to say. It's pointless to keep repeating myself.
Westbrook signed at 25%.  If he waited until this summer he could have signed at 30% (which is essentially the contract Durant signed which starts 2.5 million more in the first year and widens the gap every year thereafter).  He thus left significant dollars on the table by signing his contract when he did.  

Rondo signed the extension earlier than Wesbrook, thus the last two years of Westbrook's deal, Rondo will be on a new contract, thus you can't compare totals, but must compare year to year where Westbrook is approximately 2 million more a year for the next 3 years, and probably will be less than Rondo in years 4 and 5 (unless Rondo totally regresses).  Westbrook is thus a better value.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 23, 2012, 10:31:04 AM
I agree, the C's should trade Rondo. I was justing thinking about how they can get much worse for next season, this is the answer! Lets trade Pierce too, he is too good, lets say P Double for Maggette? That could work if you want the C's to stink next year.
The C's aren't going to be a contender next year regardless unless they can land someone using cap space in a trade (which means KG, Allen, and Green aren't back unless they sign for very low dollars).  Thus, I am all for starting the rebuilding process earlier and looking to go after multiple top tier free agents in 2013 or beyond (like Dwight).
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Josh88 on May 23, 2012, 10:51:42 AM
Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

Westbrook's new contract is a max deal, as is Kevin's Love. Saying they have better deals than Rondo is equivalent to saying LeBron's contract is better than Rondo's because even though he makes more money he's the best player in the world. It's irrelevant, the fact is that Rondo is the most underpaid all-star in the league who isn't still on their rookie deal. We are very lucky that Danny locked him up when he did and saved us quite a bit of money over the length of the contract. Rondo outperforms many players on max deals.

Trading Rondo for a significantly inferior player plus picks makes no sense. The team who gets the best player in the trade almost always gets the best of the deal in the NBA. The only reason you trade a bonafide star/arguably superstar like Rondo is if he wants out. As long as he wants to stay in Boston on a very reasonable contract we should be happy to have him.
Westbrook signed his contract early, he could actually have made a lot more money had he waited to sign the extension.  Isn't that the same thing you are saying with Rondo?  And Lebron didn't actually sign a max deal, all three of the Heat in fact took less money to play together. 

Dwyane Wade took a minor pay cut, as far as I understand it Bosh and LeBron have max deals. That's just untrue about Westbrook, he signed a max extension also.

Rondo signed a 5 year $55 million extension, Westbrook signed a 5 year $78 million extension. If you can't appreciate the difference between those two deals and just how much of a bargain Rondo is then I don't know what else to say. It's pointless to keep repeating myself.
Westbrook signed at 25%.  If he waited until this summer he could have signed at 30% (which is essentially the contract Durant signed which starts 2.5 million more in the first year and widens the gap every year thereafter).  He thus left significant dollars on the table by signing his contract when he did.  

Rondo signed the extension earlier than Wesbrook, thus the last two years of Westbrook's deal, Rondo will be on a new contract, thus you can't compare totals, but must compare year to year where Westbrook is approximately 2 million more a year for the next 3 years, and probably will be less than Rondo in years 4 and 5 (unless Rondo totally regresses).  Westbrook is thus a better value.

lol ok bro.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: revcummings on May 23, 2012, 11:25:02 AM
I'd like to see us keep Rondo and sign D-Will to play the two guard spot with Bradley coming off the bench.  ;D
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BballTim on May 23, 2012, 11:50:40 AM
I agree, the C's should trade Rondo. I was justing thinking about how they can get much worse for next season, this is the answer! Lets trade Pierce too, he is too good, lets say P Double for Maggette? That could work if you want the C's to stink next year.
The C's aren't going to be a contender next year regardless unless they can land someone using cap space in a trade (which means KG, Allen, and Green aren't back unless they sign for very low dollars).  Thus, I am all for starting the rebuilding process earlier and looking to go after multiple top tier free agents in 2013 or beyond (like Dwight).

  People have been saying the Celts won't be contenders next year for the last 3-4 years. Take the current team with a healthy PP and Bradley, add Jeff Green, possibly Wilcox and a pick or two, that's a contender.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 23, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
I agree, the C's should trade Rondo. I was justing thinking about how they can get much worse for next season, this is the answer! Lets trade Pierce too, he is too good, lets say P Double for Maggette? That could work if you want the C's to stink next year.
The C's aren't going to be a contender next year regardless unless they can land someone using cap space in a trade (which means KG, Allen, and Green aren't back unless they sign for very low dollars).  Thus, I am all for starting the rebuilding process earlier and looking to go after multiple top tier free agents in 2013 or beyond (like Dwight).

  People have been saying the Celts won't be contenders next year for the last 3-4 years. Take the current team with a healthy PP and Bradley, add Jeff Green, possibly Wilcox and a pick or two, that's a contender.

No they haven't, just last year and this year, and last year the team lost in the second round and won 1 game (thus not a contender).  This year injuries to other teams has certainly opened the door, but I'd still be surprised if Boston gets by Miami (even without Bosh).  I hope it happens, but it would still surprise me. 

Boston is not going to be a contender next year without major roster moves.  The team is getting older and more injured every day and that isn't going to radically improve next year without an influx of good younger talent.  It certainly could happen with some savvy trades by Ainge, but I'm not holding out hope that it will.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Donoghus on May 23, 2012, 12:33:16 PM
I agree, the C's should trade Rondo. I was justing thinking about how they can get much worse for next season, this is the answer! Lets trade Pierce too, he is too good, lets say P Double for Maggette? That could work if you want the C's to stink next year.
The C's aren't going to be a contender next year regardless unless they can land someone using cap space in a trade (which means KG, Allen, and Green aren't back unless they sign for very low dollars).  Thus, I am all for starting the rebuilding process earlier and looking to go after multiple top tier free agents in 2013 or beyond (like Dwight).

  People have been saying the Celts won't be contenders next year for the last 3-4 years. Take the current team with a healthy PP and Bradley, add Jeff Green, possibly Wilcox and a pick or two, that's a contender.

No they haven't, just last year and this year, and last year the team lost in the second round and won 1 game (thus not a contender).  This year injuries to other teams has certainly opened the door, but I'd still be surprised if Boston gets by Miami (even without Bosh).  I hope it happens, but it would still surprise me. 

Boston is not going to be a contender next year without major roster moves.  The team is getting older and more injured every day and that isn't going to radically improve next year without an influx of good younger talent.  It certainly could happen with some savvy trades by Ainge, but I'm not holding out hope that it will.

If they bring back the band (even minus Ray) next season plus a healthy Jeff Green (and given a rehabilitated Bradley) plus the first rounders, who in the East besides Miami could be considered better than the Celtics?

Chicago has a big question mark with Rose.  Indiana?  Atlanta with a healthy squad?  New York?


All big question marks.  Miami would be the only team I'd consider to be better on paper. 

If you're playing in the conference finals with a trip to the NBA Finals on the line, you're a contender in my book.  And they could still potentially have roster flexibility for summer of 2013. It would just be a matter of reloading the right way and getting some of these rookies to pan out.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 23, 2012, 12:46:41 PM
I agree, the C's should trade Rondo. I was justing thinking about how they can get much worse for next season, this is the answer! Lets trade Pierce too, he is too good, lets say P Double for Maggette? That could work if you want the C's to stink next year.
The C's aren't going to be a contender next year regardless unless they can land someone using cap space in a trade (which means KG, Allen, and Green aren't back unless they sign for very low dollars).  Thus, I am all for starting the rebuilding process earlier and looking to go after multiple top tier free agents in 2013 or beyond (like Dwight).

  People have been saying the Celts won't be contenders next year for the last 3-4 years. Take the current team with a healthy PP and Bradley, add Jeff Green, possibly Wilcox and a pick or two, that's a contender.

No they haven't, just last year and this year, and last year the team lost in the second round and won 1 game (thus not a contender).  This year injuries to other teams has certainly opened the door, but I'd still be surprised if Boston gets by Miami (even without Bosh).  I hope it happens, but it would still surprise me. 

Boston is not going to be a contender next year without major roster moves.  The team is getting older and more injured every day and that isn't going to radically improve next year without an influx of good younger talent.  It certainly could happen with some savvy trades by Ainge, but I'm not holding out hope that it will.

If they bring back the band (even minus Ray) next season plus a healthy Jeff Green (and given a rehabilitated Bradley) plus the first rounders, who in the East besides Miami could be considered better than the Celtics?

Chicago has a big question mark with Rose.  Indiana?  Atlanta with a healthy squad?  New York?


All big question marks.  Miami would be the only team I'd consider to be better on paper. 

If you're playing in the conference finals with a trip to the NBA Finals on the line, you're a contender in my book.  And they could still potentially have roster flexibility for summer of 2013. It would just be a matter of reloading the right way and getting some of these rookies to pan out.
Obviously it depends on what happens, but I would put Indiana, Chicago, and Atlanta ahead of Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Orlando (if they keep Dwight) all could be as well.  That doesn't say contender to me, especially given Pierce and KG are old and injured a lot.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: twinbree on May 23, 2012, 01:34:31 PM
The Celtics don't need to do anything with Rondo this summer. We are in a good position going forward and don't need to make a move just because we can. Looking at some of the trades floating about in this thread I can only assume people just want to make a trade.

The purpose of trading Rondo isn't to trade Rondo it is to make the team better preferably in the long run. So making lateral moves or downgrading to players who can't match Rondo's production makes no sense. Neither does trading him for picks that need time to develop into the player he is today. If they ever become as good. Why would we willing become a bad team just so we can gamble on the hopes that down the line we can build a contender through the lottery? That process takes times and hardly ever works.

Sometimes I wish the trade checker make people take a pop quiz on how feasible a trade is in reality and write a short essay on the benefits to both sides before spitting out the results. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on May 23, 2012, 03:11:35 PM
Why would we willing become a bad team just so we can gamble on the hopes that down the line we can build a contender through the lottery? That process takes times and hardly ever works.
You have to think the pick will be a superstar level player, a higher level player than Rondo.

The example of this sort of move is the long reported on Pierce for Van Excel and a pick that would have been CP3 if Danny had made it.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on May 23, 2012, 03:21:38 PM
The Celtics don't need to do anything with Rondo this summer. We are in a good position going forward and don't need to make a move just because we can. Looking at some of the trades floating about in this thread I can only assume people just want to make a trade.

The purpose of trading Rondo isn't to trade Rondo it is to make the team better preferably in the long run. So making lateral moves or downgrading to players who can't match Rondo's production makes no sense. Neither does trading him for picks that need time to develop into the player he is today. If they ever become as good. Why would we willing become a bad team just so we can gamble on the hopes that down the line we can build a contender through the lottery? That process takes times and hardly ever works.

Sometimes I wish the trade checker make people take a pop quiz on how feasible a trade is in reality and write a short essay on the benefits to both sides before spitting out the results.  
I'd rather be really bad for a season or two and collect high quality assets then barely make the playoffs and lose in the first or second round, which is what I believe this team is headed towards without making significant moves.  
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BballTim on May 23, 2012, 04:01:11 PM
I agree, the C's should trade Rondo. I was justing thinking about how they can get much worse for next season, this is the answer! Lets trade Pierce too, he is too good, lets say P Double for Maggette? That could work if you want the C's to stink next year.
The C's aren't going to be a contender next year regardless unless they can land someone using cap space in a trade (which means KG, Allen, and Green aren't back unless they sign for very low dollars).  Thus, I am all for starting the rebuilding process earlier and looking to go after multiple top tier free agents in 2013 or beyond (like Dwight).

  People have been saying the Celts won't be contenders next year for the last 3-4 years. Take the current team with a healthy PP and Bradley, add Jeff Green, possibly Wilcox and a pick or two, that's a contender.

No they haven't, just last year and this year, and last year the team lost in the second round and won 1 game (thus not a contender).  This year injuries to other teams has certainly opened the door, but I'd still be surprised if Boston gets by Miami (even without Bosh).  I hope it happens, but it would still surprise me. 

Boston is not going to be a contender next year without major roster moves.  The team is getting older and more injured every day and that isn't going to radically improve next year without an influx of good younger talent.  It certainly could happen with some savvy trades by Ainge, but I'm not holding out hope that it will.

If they bring back the band (even minus Ray) next season plus a healthy Jeff Green (and given a rehabilitated Bradley) plus the first rounders, who in the East besides Miami could be considered better than the Celtics?

Chicago has a big question mark with Rose.  Indiana?  Atlanta with a healthy squad?  New York?


All big question marks.  Miami would be the only team I'd consider to be better on paper. 

If you're playing in the conference finals with a trip to the NBA Finals on the line, you're a contender in my book.  And they could still potentially have roster flexibility for summer of 2013. It would just be a matter of reloading the right way and getting some of these rookies to pan out.
Obviously it depends on what happens, but I would put Indiana, Chicago, and Atlanta ahead of Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Orlando (if they keep Dwight) all could be as well.  That doesn't say contender to me, especially given Pierce and KG are old and injured a lot.

  You're putting a top team who's star player just had a serious knee injury above the Celts, along with a group of teams who, at full strength, are no better than a severely depleted Celtics team. Our window isn't closed any more, or even as much, as the Spurs window was after they were dispatched in the first round last year.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: twinbree on May 23, 2012, 05:58:42 PM
Why would we willing become a bad team just so we can gamble on the hopes that down the line we can build a contender through the lottery? That process takes times and hardly ever works.
You have to think the pick will be a superstar level player, a higher level player than Rondo.

The example of this sort of move is the long reported on Pierce for Van Excel and a pick that would have been CP3 if Danny had made it.

I know that. That's my point. We do not have that option so there's no reason to gamble on the lottery just yet. Right now we don't know what pick we'll get and who'll be available where next year. Even if we did I'd still be hesitant to start from scratch this summer. Drafting one superstar isn't enough to build a contender if you don't have pieces in place already or get some other great picks in the draft.



I'd rather be really bad for a season or two and collect high quality assets then barely make the playoffs and lose in the first or second round, which is what I believe this team is headed towards without making significant moves.

And what makes you so sure after a season or two we will suddenly become good? Even if we dramatically improve I find it hard to imagine we will be better than a fringe/early exit playoff team which is exactly where you project us to be now. So we're bad for a bit and and right back to where we started. It's one thing for the team to slip in mediocrity. It's another to deliberately choose that path. Look at teams like the Bobcats, Raptors, Kings etc. Often the payoff from being in the lottery is not as close as a couple of seasons. I see us having a better chance of becoming contenders through trades and free agency than through the draft.


Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: thestackshow on May 23, 2012, 06:43:31 PM
I cant believe this thread is still alive to be honest.

Were in the middle of a title run and going deep in the playoffs and the biggest topic on the forums is about trading our best player and only reason we are even in the playoffs at all.

Weird fan base. Just weird.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on January 08, 2013, 10:34:40 AM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
One 25 year old all star (who isn't a top five player in the game) is going to make your team good enough to just make the playoffs or just miss the playoffs.  That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency.
Sadly I called that.  Still can't believe this off season went as poorly as it did.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: AshyLarry on January 08, 2013, 10:45:55 AM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
One 25 year old all star (who isn't a top five player in the game) is going to make your team good enough to just make the playoffs or just miss the playoffs.  That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency.
Sadly I called that.  Still can't believe this off season went as poorly as it did.

Edited. We've just started seeing our team finally start to fi into their roles. Can't judge that fully yet. I still think we made out like bandits in a pretty weak FA class. Had the Darko thing worked out, we'd have filled pretty much every hole left open. And remember, we had what, 3 people under the books come the offseason?

It's yet to fully be seen, but i think we made out great this offseason, resigning KG as our best move.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: eugen on January 08, 2013, 10:55:19 AM
Is LAL give you DW12 for Rondo?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 08, 2013, 10:58:53 AM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
One 25 year old all star (who isn't a top five player in the game) is going to make your team good enough to just make the playoffs or just miss the playoffs.  That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency.
Sadly I called that.  Still can't believe this off season went as poorly as it did.

Overpriced role players during a time when you wouldn't have cap space anyways, most of whom will be off the books once we can actually have cap space, the rest will be left on 1 year deals... so, I find your analysis lacking.

Danny did great during the off-season, there's really no ifs or buts about it. Case closed, not up to discussion :P
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: eugen on January 08, 2013, 11:01:34 AM
I feel that somobdoy in this forum, is more fan of Rondo than Cs team...Too bad.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on January 08, 2013, 11:23:55 AM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
One 25 year old all star (who isn't a top five player in the game) is going to make your team good enough to just make the playoffs or just miss the playoffs.  That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency.
Sadly I called that.  Still can't believe this off season went as poorly as it did.

Overpriced role players during a time when you wouldn't have cap space anyways, most of whom will be off the books once we can actually have cap space, the rest will be left on 1 year deals... so, I find your analysis lacking.

Danny did great during the off-season, there's really no ifs or buts about it. Case closed, not up to discussion :P
um, entering last summer, Boston had only Rondo and Pierce signed past the year except for the rookie contract players (which aren't much more than the cap hold for the roster spot anyway).  Boston signed KG to more years than I would have given his age, but he was at least an understandable signing.  Signing Green, Bass, Terry, and Lee for 26 million a year (or so) for the next 3 years (plus a couple guys with that extra year), was totally and utterly ridiculous.  Mediocre role players signed in free agency.  Just as I was afraid would happen.

Oh and BTW if the Celtics had not signed anyone past this year except KG and the rookies and assuming Pierce actually exercised his 1 yr option, Boston would have been at about 47 million next summer (with cap holds and what not), which is enough to at least get a solid mid-tier player and also would have allowed Boston to be able to sign and trade for other players.  Now lets say Pierce decides to retire and opts out, Boston would have been players for max level players next summer, but now can't be because of the 26 million in flotsam that is Green, Bass, Terry, and Lee. Heck even if KG and Pierce both retire this summer, Boston still can't sign more than a mid-tier free agent this summer because of the crap signed last year.

Ainge destroyed all long term flexibility by giving awful contracts to mediocre players last summer.  The only chance Boston has to get it back is to give up real value (like Bradley, Sully, and picks) to unload the awful contracts on some other team i.e Boston has to pay someone else to take on the flotsam. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Bankshot on January 08, 2013, 11:28:55 AM
Is LAL give you DW12 for Rondo?

No
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on January 08, 2013, 11:32:39 AM
If you're resigning KG then you're playing to win now. If you just get KG/Pierce/Rondo/Rooks/+vet min guys then why did you bother to sign KG? Once we signed KG the cap room we had in 3 guys (Rondo/Pierce/KG) meant that to field a contending team around them = no cap space.

You wanted to blow it up, trade Rondo/Pierce, and let KG walk we get it.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Chris on January 08, 2013, 11:43:28 AM
If you're resigning KG then you're playing to win now. If you just get KG/Pierce/Rondo/Rooks/+vet min guys then why did you bother to sign KG? Once we signed KG the cap room we had in 3 guys (Rondo/Pierce/KG) meant that to field a contending team around them = no cap space.

You wanted to blow it up, trade Rondo/Pierce, and let KG walk we get it.

Exactly.  KG was the key this summer.  And the way the market was playing out, the C's basically had 2 choices.  Bring back KG, and then fill in the roster as well as you can to try to keep winning, or blow it up and play the lottery game.

I am glad they are not playing the lottery game.  That has way too many losers.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Donoghus on January 08, 2013, 11:47:44 AM
If you're resigning KG then you're playing to win now. If you just get KG/Pierce/Rondo/Rooks/+vet min guys then why did you bother to sign KG? Once we signed KG the cap room we had in 3 guys (Rondo/Pierce/KG) meant that to field a contending team around them = no cap space.

You wanted to blow it up, trade Rondo/Pierce, and let KG walk we get it.

Exactly.  KG was the key this summer.  And the way the market was playing out, the C's basically had 2 choices.  Bring back KG, and then fill in the roster as well as you can to try to keep winning, or blow it up and play the lottery game.

I am glad they are not playing the lottery game.  That has way too many losers.

Echo that sentiment.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics18 on January 08, 2013, 12:14:39 PM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
One 25 year old all star (who isn't a top five player in the game) is going to make your team good enough to just make the playoffs or just miss the playoffs.  That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency.
Sadly I called that.  Still can't believe this off season went as poorly as it did.

Overpriced role players during a time when you wouldn't have cap space anyways, most of whom will be off the books once we can actually have cap space, the rest will be left on 1 year deals... so, I find your analysis lacking.

Danny did great during the off-season, there's really no ifs or buts about it. Case closed, not up to discussion :P
um, entering last summer, Boston had only Rondo and Pierce signed past the year except for the rookie contract players (which aren't much more than the cap hold for the roster spot anyway).  Boston signed KG to more years than I would have given his age, but he was at least an understandable signing.  Signing Green, Bass, Terry, and Lee for 26 million a year (or so) for the next 3 years (plus a couple guys with that extra year), was totally and utterly ridiculous.  Mediocre role players signed in free agency.  Just as I was afraid would happen.

Oh and BTW if the Celtics had not signed anyone past this year except KG and the rookies and assuming Pierce actually exercised his 1 yr option, Boston would have been at about 47 million next summer (with cap holds and what not), which is enough to at least get a solid mid-tier player and also would have allowed Boston to be able to sign and trade for other players.  Now lets say Pierce decides to retire and opts out, Boston would have been players for max level players next summer, but now can't be because of the 26 million in flotsam that is Green, Bass, Terry, and Lee. Heck even if KG and Pierce both retire this summer, Boston still can't sign more than a mid-tier free agent this summer because of the crap signed last year.

Ainge destroyed all long term flexibility by giving awful contracts to mediocre players last summer.  The only chance Boston has to get it back is to give up real value (like Bradley, Sully, and picks) to unload the awful contracts on some other team i.e Boston has to pay someone else to take on the flotsam.

So you wanted to go into this season with KG, Pierce, Rondo, the rookies, and the rest of the roster made up of vet. minimum guys on one year contracts?

I think that would have been both a terrible and unrealistic scenario. 

For one thing, I'm sure that Danny assured KG that we would do what it took to put enough talent around the team to keep them in contention when he was convincing him to re-sign. 

"Thanks for staying, KG.  Oh, by the way, I lied.  I'm really just trying to clear contracts and get this team to the lottery as fast as possible."  I don't think that would have gone over too well. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: slamtheking on January 08, 2013, 12:40:13 PM
I just dont' see the point of getting rid of a 25 year old all-star when you're trying to rebuild.

You want to have 25 year old all-stars on your team when you're assembling a new core to your team. Getting rid of him for the sake of draft position is just hitting the reset button because you lack the vision to try something else.
One 25 year old all star (who isn't a top five player in the game) is going to make your team good enough to just make the playoffs or just miss the playoffs.  That isn't a good place to be when you are trying to rebuild.  You won't be bad enough to get the truly elite draft assets and likewise won't be good enough to draw elite level players to your team.  You end up with overpriced role players in free agency.
Sadly I called that.  Still can't believe this off season went as poorly as it did.

Overpriced role players during a time when you wouldn't have cap space anyways, most of whom will be off the books once we can actually have cap space, the rest will be left on 1 year deals... so, I find your analysis lacking.

Danny did great during the off-season, there's really no ifs or buts about it. Case closed, not up to discussion :P
um, entering last summer, Boston had only Rondo and Pierce signed past the year except for the rookie contract players (which aren't much more than the cap hold for the roster spot anyway).  Boston signed KG to more years than I would have given his age, but he was at least an understandable signing.  Signing Green, Bass, Terry, and Lee for 26 million a year (or so) for the next 3 years (plus a couple guys with that extra year), was totally and utterly ridiculous.  Mediocre role players signed in free agency.  Just as I was afraid would happen.

Oh and BTW if the Celtics had not signed anyone past this year except KG and the rookies and assuming Pierce actually exercised his 1 yr option, Boston would have been at about 47 million next summer (with cap holds and what not), which is enough to at least get a solid mid-tier player and also would have allowed Boston to be able to sign and trade for other players.  Now lets say Pierce decides to retire and opts out, Boston would have been players for max level players next summer, but now can't be because of the 26 million in flotsam that is Green, Bass, Terry, and Lee. Heck even if KG and Pierce both retire this summer, Boston still can't sign more than a mid-tier free agent this summer because of the crap signed last year.

Ainge destroyed all long term flexibility by giving awful contracts to mediocre players last summer.  The only chance Boston has to get it back is to give up real value (like Bradley, Sully, and picks) to unload the awful contracts on some other team i.e Boston has to pay someone else to take on the flotsam.
This reationale is just headscratching at best.

Signing KG mean you're all in for the life of that contract as someone else mentioned above.  Danny signed players that were solid role players to support KG/PP/Rondo.  No argument with who he chose -- all looked like good pickups.  I can see an issue with some of the amounts and years but basically everyone's deal rolls off with KG. 
Any dreams of being a buyer in free agency is proven to be crap.  look at all the teams that unloaded contracts in the hopes of landing the big FA's a couple of years ago.  How'd that work out for them when Bron and Bosh colluded to go to Miami.  Nets got nothing.  NY settled for Amare.  Chicago settled for Boozer.  Only Miami came out of that offseason happy.  Thinking that there's just a huge wave of great talent hitting free agency in the near future, that they are max-contract quality players AND that the C's are a desired destination is just wholly unrealistic. 

Danny made the best move possible in trying to reload, not unload.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: relja on January 08, 2013, 12:54:28 PM
So, we win one game w/o the best point guard in the league and we want to trade him. Real "fans".
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on January 08, 2013, 12:58:27 PM
So, we win one game w/o the best point guard in the league and we want to trade him. Real "fans".
It helps if you read the thread to understand the context better, this thread was started long ago. Or even look at the recent replies.

Also accusations about fanhood are not allowed. We're all fans here, no attacking others "creditials".
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Roy H. on January 08, 2013, 01:04:02 PM
So, we win one game w/o the best point guard in the league

We've won 17 games without the best point guard in the league.  He plays in LA. ;)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on January 08, 2013, 01:30:34 PM
If you're resigning KG then you're playing to win now. If you just get KG/Pierce/Rondo/Rooks/+vet min guys then why did you bother to sign KG? Once we signed KG the cap room we had in 3 guys (Rondo/Pierce/KG) meant that to field a contending team around them = no cap space.

You wanted to blow it up, trade Rondo/Pierce, and let KG walk we get it.
I think Green and Bass would have signed 1 year deals as I don't think they had much interest out there.  It might have cost Boston a bit more in that 1 year, but I think both of them would have been ok with a 1 year deal for pretty darn good money with a shot to try again in free agency next year.  I think Boston could have then brought back Pietrus and Daniels on a 1 year deal instead of Lee and Allen and still signed Barbosa instead of Terry.  Boston still could have brought in Darko, and made plays for Kenyon Martin, the Birdman, maybe bring Stiemer back, etc., and put together a fine team that wouldn't be much (or any) worse than the current team, but one that wouldn't be saddled with nearly 30 million dollars of garbage for the 13/14 and 14/15 seasons (not to mention another 16 million in 15/16).
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: nickagneta on January 08, 2013, 02:42:27 PM
I think Green and Bass would have signed 1 year deals as I don't think they had much interest out there.  It might have cost Boston a bit more in that 1 year, but I think both of them would have been ok with a 1 year deal for pretty darn good money with a shot to try again in free agency next year. 
This premise is ridiculous.

If Danny could have signed Green for more money and one year he would have because he could have given him any amount of money up to the max to ensure that one year deal. Fact is Green's agent would never have allowed it as the long term security of four years and $9 million per year is a lot more valuable and a sure thing than a one year, prove it to me contract.

Same holds true for Bass. The agents I am sure both could have found multi year contracts outside of Boston for their players that would have made taking a one year deal from Boston a non factor in making a contract decision.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on January 08, 2013, 03:09:27 PM
I think Green and Bass would have signed 1 year deals as I don't think they had much interest out there.  It might have cost Boston a bit more in that 1 year, but I think both of them would have been ok with a 1 year deal for pretty darn good money with a shot to try again in free agency next year. 
This premise is ridiculous.

If Danny could have signed Green for more money and one year he would have because he could have given him any amount of money up to the max to ensure that one year deal. Fact is Green's agent would never have allowed it as the long term security of four years and $9 million per year is a lot more valuable and a sure thing than a one year, prove it to me contract.

Same holds true for Bass. The agents I am sure both could have found multi year contracts outside of Boston for their players that would have made taking a one year deal from Boston a non factor in making a contract decision.
I think if Boston would have given Green a 1 yr, 12 million dollar contract there is a very good chance he takes that as quite simply he wasn't getting a lot of looks anywhere else and certainly from no one willing to pay more than the MLE (which was what 3 yrs, 16 million or so total).  Bass may have been a bit trickier, but if you give him 8 or 9 million for 1 year, I still think there is a pretty good chance he takes that.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Fafnir on January 08, 2013, 03:11:28 PM
I think they demand contracts with player options, similar to what Mayo/Posey/etc have done.

Young players like that aren't going for short term "make good" deals like you assume they'd take unless they don't have other options too.

Do you think that Bass/Green/Lee/Terry didn't have options? Or that veteran minimum or guys willing to take one year overpays would just sign on for a one year go of it?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Snakehead on January 08, 2013, 03:24:10 PM

Young players like that aren't going for short term "make good" deals like you assume they'd take unless they don't have other options too.


Especially after they just experienced how fragile their own mortality really is.

And I seriously doubt Green didn't have other options.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BballTim on January 08, 2013, 03:50:25 PM
I think Green and Bass would have signed 1 year deals as I don't think they had much interest out there.  It might have cost Boston a bit more in that 1 year, but I think both of them would have been ok with a 1 year deal for pretty darn good money with a shot to try again in free agency next year. 
This premise is ridiculous.

If Danny could have signed Green for more money and one year he would have because he could have given him any amount of money up to the max to ensure that one year deal. Fact is Green's agent would never have allowed it as the long term security of four years and $9 million per year is a lot more valuable and a sure thing than a one year, prove it to me contract.

Same holds true for Bass. The agents I am sure both could have found multi year contracts outside of Boston for their players that would have made taking a one year deal from Boston a non factor in making a contract decision.
I think if Boston would have given Green a 1 yr, 12 million dollar contract there is a very good chance he takes that as quite simply he wasn't getting a lot of looks anywhere else and certainly from no one willing to pay more than the MLE (which was what 3 yrs, 16 million or so total).

  You don't have any idea whether this is true or not, and unless you have a reasonable explanation for why Ainge would pay close to double what Green could get anywhere else it's not really a viable theory.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on January 08, 2013, 04:48:55 PM
I think they demand contracts with player options, similar to what Mayo/Posey/etc have done.

Young players like that aren't going for short term "make good" deals like you assume they'd take unless they don't have other options too.

Do you think that Bass/Green/Lee/Terry didn't have options? Or that veteran minimum or guys willing to take one year overpays would just sign on for a one year go of it?
I'm sure Lee and Terry did for similar money, which is why I didn't mention them, I just wouldn't have signed them at all.  Not worth the money or years for what they provide.

Bass probably did, but not at more than the MLE.  He might have been able to get more in a sign and trade if it could have been worked out.  But had he been given 1 year, 9 million, I think that is a gamble he might have taken as opposed to a 3 yr, 16 million total contract.  That said if Bass would have left, then a guy like Blatche was certainly available to fill in (and might just be a better player anyway).

I think Ainge really liked Green and wanted to ensure he didn't leave so he overpaid early in the process to ensure he didn't look elsewhere.  Of course I'm not sure where exactly elsewhere was.  I mean what team with cap space was going to break the bank on Jeff Green.  I think Boston could have thrown out a big 1 year contract early and then just watched the process and adjusted as necessary, I just don't think that was in the cards.

And for the record had Green left there were plenty of other options out there.  I mean just look at Dallas, claimed Elton Brand for 2.1 million, signed Kaman 1 yr 8 million, signed Mayo for 4 million the first year with a player option at 4.2 next year, among other moves, and that is just Dallas.  To act like Boston couldn't have fielded a competitive team is utterly ridiculous.  Of course not near as ridiculous as signing the 4 man flotsam for nearly 30 million dollars a year for at least 3 years.  That is way beyond ridiculous and frankly I can't believe so many people on here defend those signings.

Put it this way, would a team with Rondo, Bradley, Pierce, Brand, Garnett, Mayo, Blatche, Sullinger, Pietrus, Wilcox, Barbosa, Collins, Melo, and Daniels be any worse than the team out there now.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 08, 2013, 05:46:05 PM
KEEP RONDO!

Trade some of the other guys (Lee, Bass or Terry) or sign and amnesty player when the other teams cut them.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on January 11, 2013, 11:23:31 AM
KEEP RONDO!

Trade some of the other guys (Lee, Bass or Terry) or sign and amnesty player when the other teams cut them.
that is all good if we were living in Imagination Land where fantasy's and dreams come true, but back here in reality those guys all have negative value, which means if you trade them you are getting back something of pretty similar worth unless you part ways with real value in the process.  Boston has exactly 5 assets of varying degrees of value (aside from future draft picks): Pierce, Garnett, Rondo, Bradley, and Sullinger.  That is it.  Rondo has the highest value and thus makes the most sense to trade (for other reasons as well).
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: ssspence on January 11, 2013, 11:55:46 AM
I think Green and Bass would have signed 1 year deals as I don't think they had much interest out there.  It might have cost Boston a bit more in that 1 year, but I think both of them would have been ok with a 1 year deal for pretty darn good money with a shot to try again in free agency next year. 
This premise is ridiculous.

If Danny could have signed Green for more money and one year he would have because he could have given him any amount of money up to the max to ensure that one year deal. Fact is Green's agent would never have allowed it as the long term security of four years and $9 million per year is a lot more valuable and a sure thing than a one year, prove it to me contract.

Same holds true for Bass. The agents I am sure both could have found multi year contracts outside of Boston for their players that would have made taking a one year deal from Boston a non factor in making a contract decision.

Re: Bass, I'm sure you're right.

I suspect in Green's case, it was fuzzier. Not sure how many teams in the league are giving guys coming off open heart surgery 4 year, $40mil deals -- particularly ones who it would be hard to argue would be worth that if they hadn't just had such a major procedure.

Agents bluff more often than they tell the truth. Sometimes they succeed. As I recall, Green's agent said they had 'strong interest' from '12-14 teams'. Even that phrasing sounds like you-know-what...

Regardless, his deal has (rightly) been panned thus far. Sometimes, you have to walk away, even if another, less disciplined team is willing to overpay.

It's nice to fantasize about Green's potential, but it's pretty hard to imagine him making the leap to a $9mil player in today's NBA.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: RyNye on January 11, 2013, 12:10:27 PM
That is it.  Rondo has the highest value and thus makes the most sense to trade (for other reasons as well).

Who can we get for Rondo that is actually an upgrade? All of the players in the league that are clearly better than Rondo aren't on the trading block (Chris Paul, Lebron, etc.). Anyone we will get for Rondo at this point will be a downgrade, because there are so few players in the league that are better than Rondo that are actually available.

It makes absolutely no sense to trade our best player, especially now as rebuilding is looming.

Ideally, we want to keep Rondo, and for Avery Bradley and Sullinger to continue developing at the pace they have been.

But please, tell me what magical trade is out there that will get us a better player than Rondo. Because Cousin's isn't better than Rondo, not at this point in their respective careers.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on January 11, 2013, 12:22:10 PM
To compare rondo to cousins is nothing short of ridiculous. They play two completely different positions.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: kozlodoev on January 11, 2013, 02:03:04 PM
It's nice to fantasize about Green's potential, but it's pretty hard to imagine him making the leap to a $9mil player in today's NBA.
I'm not sure what leap you're talking about - he was easily an $9 million player based on his contribution in a starting role at Oklahoma.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on January 11, 2013, 02:12:12 PM
That is it.  Rondo has the highest value and thus makes the most sense to trade (for other reasons as well).

Who can we get for Rondo that is actually an upgrade? All of the players in the league that are clearly better than Rondo aren't on the trading block (Chris Paul, Lebron, etc.). Anyone we will get for Rondo at this point will be a downgrade, because there are so few players in the league that are better than Rondo that are actually available.

It makes absolutely no sense to trade our best player, especially now as rebuilding is looming.

Ideally, we want to keep Rondo, and for Avery Bradley and Sullinger to continue developing at the pace they have been.

But please, tell me what magical trade is out there that will get us a better player than Rondo. Because Cousin's isn't better than Rondo, not at this point in their respective careers.
If you are rebuilding you don't hang onto a player that won't let you be truly awful.  It is far better to be downright awful then to be mediocre.  Additionally, if you are rebuilding then you absolutely trade Rondo  because you can get multiple assets that will help that process.  Cousins and Evans for Rondo (as an example) is a pretty solid rebuilding trade.  You get 2 younger and just as talented players for 1 older injury prone, but better player.  That is what you should do unless your team is one of the top contenders, and for the record, OKC actually traded its third best player, for multiple lesser parts and is probably just as good as they would have been with Harden and have much greater flexibility going forward. 

Too many fans grow these unreasonable attachments to players that they shouldn't.  Rondo is one of those players.  He is good, but he isn't Larry Bird.  Heck he isn't even close to Paul Pierce.  Sometimes you upgrade a team by removing a more talented player for lesser players (like say the NY Giants after Tiki Barber retired).
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 11, 2013, 02:24:13 PM
It's nice to fantasize about Green's potential, but it's pretty hard to imagine him making the leap to a $9mil player in today's NBA.
I'm not sure what leap you're talking about - he was easily an $9 million player based on his contribution in a starting role at Oklahoma.

Agreed. I think I am still in the minority that his contract isnt all that crazy or ridiculous. I actually think its very fair. Its just the situation and role that he is being asked to play for the Celts that makes it seem semi crazy.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: ScottHow on January 11, 2013, 02:30:05 PM
It's nice to fantasize about Green's potential, but it's pretty hard to imagine him making the leap to a $9mil player in today's NBA.
I'm not sure what leap you're talking about - he was easily an $9 million player based on his contribution in a starting role at Oklahoma.

Agreed. I think I am still in the minority that his contract isnt all that crazy or ridiculous. I actually think its very fair. Its just the situation and role that he is being asked to play for the Celts that makes it seem semi crazy.

Plus we have Rondo's contract/play to compare it to as well.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Yogi on January 11, 2013, 02:30:20 PM
That is it.  Rondo has the highest value and thus makes the most sense to trade (for other reasons as well).

Who can we get for Rondo that is actually an upgrade? All of the players in the league that are clearly better than Rondo aren't on the trading block (Chris Paul, Lebron, etc.). Anyone we will get for Rondo at this point will be a downgrade, because there are so few players in the league that are better than Rondo that are actually available.

It makes absolutely no sense to trade our best player, especially now as rebuilding is looming.

Ideally, we want to keep Rondo, and for Avery Bradley and Sullinger to continue developing at the pace they have been.

But please, tell me what magical trade is out there that will get us a better player than Rondo. Because Cousin's isn't better than Rondo, not at this point in their respective careers.
If you are rebuilding you don't hang onto a player that won't let you be truly awful.  It is far better to be downright awful then to be mediocre.  Additionally, if you are rebuilding then you absolutely trade Rondo  because you can get multiple assets that will help that process.  Cousins and Evans for Rondo (as an example) is a pretty solid rebuilding trade.  You get 2 younger and just as talented players for 1 older injury prone, but better player.  That is what you should do unless your team is one of the top contenders, and for the record, OKC actually traded its third best player, for multiple lesser parts and is probably just as good as they would have been with Harden and have much greater flexibility going forward. 

Too many fans grow these unreasonable attachments to players that they shouldn't.  Rondo is one of those players.  He is good, but he isn't Larry Bird.  Heck he isn't even close to Paul Pierce.  Sometimes you upgrade a team by removing a more talented player for lesser players (like say the NY Giants after Tiki Barber retired).
Just as talented?  what a joke.  Rondo will become one of the greatest Celtics of all time.  He will become a HOF.  He will be an all-star for the next 5 years at least. 

I don't think you understand what rebuilding is.  You only get assets to find a superstar to build around.  Trading that superstar for picks is going backwards.  Honestly, do you have any idea how many people are averaging a double double in the NBA right now?  He's leading the LEAGUE in assists, how many are putting up his steals number?  his rebounds for a guard?  his FG%?  Not to mention he is earning less money than Kris Humphries.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: kozlodoev on January 11, 2013, 02:31:12 PM
It's nice to fantasize about Green's potential, but it's pretty hard to imagine him making the leap to a $9mil player in today's NBA.
I'm not sure what leap you're talking about - he was easily an $9 million player based on his contribution in a starting role at Oklahoma.

Agreed. I think I am still in the minority that his contract isnt all that crazy or ridiculous. I actually think its very fair. Its just the situation and role that he is being asked to play for the Celts that makes it seem semi crazy.
Correct. He's got the contract of a starting SF. Is he capable to play this role? Yes. Will he be the best player on the floor? Probably not. Is he paid like one? Surely not.

The fact that he's stuck in a 20-25 mpg role off the bench is a problem: sure, he's great insurance if Pierce is injured, needs a game off, or retires early -- but right now we're getting maybe 65 cents of a dollar from that deal, and it's not entirely Green's fault.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: ssspence on January 11, 2013, 03:15:34 PM
It's nice to fantasize about Green's potential, but it's pretty hard to imagine him making the leap to a $9mil player in today's NBA.
I'm not sure what leap you're talking about - he was easily an $9 million player based on his contribution in a starting role at Oklahoma.

Agreed. I think I am still in the minority that his contract isnt all that crazy or ridiculous. I actually think its very fair. Its just the situation and role that he is being asked to play for the Celts that makes it seem semi crazy.
Correct. He's got the contract of a starting SF. Is he capable to play this role? Yes. Will he be the best player on the floor? Probably not. Is he paid like one? Surely not.

The fact that he's stuck in a 20-25 mpg role off the bench is a problem: sure, he's great insurance if Pierce is injured, needs a game off, or retires early -- but right now we're getting maybe 65 cents of a dollar from that deal, and it's not entirely Green's fault.

I'm going to give up asking this question soon, since no one seems to be able to answer it in a way that justifies his value, but what is it that Green does truly well? What does a team lose when he leaves the floor? Answer: not much. 

Green could be the worst starter on a good team, or a starter on a bad team. He'd still be the same inefficient, poor shooting, poor defending, poor rebounding player he was before heart surgery, not to mention after. Minutes won't change that.

As for what he did years ago in OKC, Sam Presti is arguably the best GM in the NBA. Had he felt the answer to either question above was more clear or favorable, and therefore that Green was worth a long-term investment, he wouldn't have traded him right before his rookie deal was finished.   
 


Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: eugen on January 11, 2013, 03:34:33 PM
Trade Rondo and get a big man. If we trade Rondo, I wil prefer Curry of Golden State
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on January 11, 2013, 04:09:35 PM
It's nice to fantasize about Green's potential, but it's pretty hard to imagine him making the leap to a $9mil player in today's NBA.
I'm not sure what leap you're talking about - he was easily an $9 million player based on his contribution in a starting role at Oklahoma.

Agreed. I think I am still in the minority that his contract isnt all that crazy or ridiculous. I actually think its very fair. Its just the situation and role that he is being asked to play for the Celts that makes it seem semi crazy.
Correct. He's got the contract of a starting SF. Is he capable to play this role? Yes. Will he be the best player on the floor? Probably not. Is he paid like one? Surely not.

The fact that he's stuck in a 20-25 mpg role off the bench is a problem: sure, he's great insurance if Pierce is injured, needs a game off, or retires early -- but right now we're getting maybe 65 cents of a dollar from that deal, and it's not entirely Green's fault.

I'm going to give up asking this question soon, since no one seems to be able to answer it in a way that justifies his value, but what is it that Green does truly well? What does a team lose when he leaves the floor? Answer: not much. 

Green could be the worst starter on a good team, or a starter on a bad team. He'd still be the same inefficient, poor shooting, poor defending, poor rebounding player he was before heart surgery, not to mention after. Minutes won't change that.

As for what he did years ago in OKC, Sam Presti is arguably the best GM in the NBA. Had he felt the answer to either question above was more clear or favorable, and therefore that Green was worth a long-term investment, he wouldn't have traded him right before his rookie deal was finished.
Totally agree with you.  Green does absolutely nothing at an above average level.  I mean even guys like Jason Terry are above average shooters/scorers.  Green isn't even that.  He is a below average rebounder, average passer, average defender, and average at best scorer/shooter.  He had ok numbers because he played a lot of minutes and got a lot of touches, not because he was ever better than anything but average.  I mean I know PER isn't a great stat, but Green's career best is 13.9.  His TS% is 52.4% and eFG% is 48.1%.  Green is essentially a lesser version of Marvin Williams.  The same Marvin Williams that the Hawks got crucified for giving 37.5 million over 5 years for (7.5 mill per).  Sure Williams had a 5th year (as opposed to 4), but got paid only 1.5 million more total with that extra year.

Boston gave Jeff Green a horrible contract.  It is indefensible.  It also has nothing to do with Rondo, so that is the last I'm going to comment on it in this thread.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 11, 2013, 04:15:07 PM
[Edited. Please review the posting rules.  Comments like this are not appropriate.]
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Lord of Mikawa on January 11, 2013, 04:22:04 PM
I'm fine with Rondo. He is going to have an average regular season but come playoff time he WILL show up. If he doesn't show up in the post-season then we talk trading him.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 11, 2013, 04:30:27 PM
It's nice to fantasize about Green's potential, but it's pretty hard to imagine him making the leap to a $9mil player in today's NBA.
I'm not sure what leap you're talking about - he was easily an $9 million player based on his contribution in a starting role at Oklahoma.

Agreed. I think I am still in the minority that his contract isnt all that crazy or ridiculous. I actually think its very fair. Its just the situation and role that he is being asked to play for the Celts that makes it seem semi crazy.
Correct. He's got the contract of a starting SF. Is he capable to play this role? Yes. Will he be the best player on the floor? Probably not. Is he paid like one? Surely not.

The fact that he's stuck in a 20-25 mpg role off the bench is a problem: sure, he's great insurance if Pierce is injured, needs a game off, or retires early -- but right now we're getting maybe 65 cents of a dollar from that deal, and it's not entirely Green's fault.

I'm going to give up asking this question soon, since no one seems to be able to answer it in a way that justifies his value, but what is it that Green does truly well? What does a team lose when he leaves the floor? Answer: not much. 

Green could be the worst starter on a good team, or a starter on a bad team. He'd still be the same inefficient, poor shooting, poor defending, poor rebounding player he was before heart surgery, not to mention after. Minutes won't change that.

As for what he did years ago in OKC, Sam Presti is arguably the best GM in the NBA. Had he felt the answer to either question above was more clear or favorable, and therefore that Green was worth a long-term investment, he wouldn't have traded him right before his rookie deal was finished.

Harden puts a bit of a hole in your rationalization no?
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: ssspence on January 11, 2013, 05:52:45 PM
It's nice to fantasize about Green's potential, but it's pretty hard to imagine him making the leap to a $9mil player in today's NBA.
I'm not sure what leap you're talking about - he was easily an $9 million player based on his contribution in a starting role at Oklahoma.

Agreed. I think I am still in the minority that his contract isnt all that crazy or ridiculous. I actually think its very fair. Its just the situation and role that he is being asked to play for the Celts that makes it seem semi crazy.
Correct. He's got the contract of a starting SF. Is he capable to play this role? Yes. Will he be the best player on the floor? Probably not. Is he paid like one? Surely not.

The fact that he's stuck in a 20-25 mpg role off the bench is a problem: sure, he's great insurance if Pierce is injured, needs a game off, or retires early -- but right now we're getting maybe 65 cents of a dollar from that deal, and it's not entirely Green's fault.

I'm going to give up asking this question soon, since no one seems to be able to answer it in a way that justifies his value, but what is it that Green does truly well? What does a team lose when he leaves the floor? Answer: not much. 

Green could be the worst starter on a good team, or a starter on a bad team. He'd still be the same inefficient, poor shooting, poor defending, poor rebounding player he was before heart surgery, not to mention after. Minutes won't change that.

As for what he did years ago in OKC, Sam Presti is arguably the best GM in the NBA. Had he felt the answer to either question above was more clear or favorable, and therefore that Green was worth a long-term investment, he wouldn't have traded him right before his rookie deal was finished.

Harden puts a bit of a hole in your rationalization no?

Not at all. I doubt Harden's play in HOU surprises the brass in OKC in the slightest. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: RyNye on January 11, 2013, 06:27:54 PM
If you are rebuilding you don't hang onto a player that won't let you be truly awful.

To rebuild you want to rebuild around a star. Rondo IS a star. What's the point of tanking for the lottery? For the off-chance we get a better player, which is by no means guaranteed? Have you not noticed that the vast vast majority of lottery picks don't turn a franchise into an instant contender like OKC?

It IS possible to rebuild through the draft, but it isn't by any means a guarantee. Especially with what is projected to be a weak draft this season. We already have a star, it makes no sense to get rid of him for the purposes of tanking. We either get rid of him for a real star, or build a team around him.


Cousins and Evans for Rondo (as an example) is a pretty solid rebuilding trade.  You get 2 younger and just as talented players for 1 older injury prone, but better player.

Why are Cousins and Evans any better for rebuilding than Rondo?


That is what you should do unless your team is one of the top contenders, and for the record, OKC actually traded its third best player, for multiple lesser parts and is probably just as good as they would have been with Harden and have much greater flexibility going forward.

To win in the NBA, you need a star player. Nobody questions this. We have a star player. Granted, he is not Lebron, but he has proven on multiple occasions that he is a star, and by virtually every statistical method of measuring basketball he ranks extremely high.

You are supposed to build around a star. What's the point of getting rid of a proven star for the CHANCE of getting another star in the next couple of seasons? All it does is make us a bad team for a couple of years for the off-chance we get as lucky in the draft as OKC did. What happens when we don't get a star in the draft? Then we are just bad forever.

So we either keep the star we have and try to build a contender around him, or try to get another star.

I will give you that trading Rondo for pieces could potentially help us land a star in a trade down the line, and Danny is smart enough to pull something like that off.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: syfy9 on January 11, 2013, 06:50:57 PM


You are supposed to build around a star. What's the point of getting rid of a proven star for the CHANCE of getting another star in the next couple of seasons?

That star you are trading for would have to have more potential to be a better star than the current star.  8)
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: Moranis on January 11, 2013, 08:10:20 PM
If you are rebuilding you don't hang onto a player that won't let you be truly awful.

To rebuild you want to rebuild around a star. Rondo IS a star. What's the point of tanking for the lottery? For the off-chance we get a better player, which is by no means guaranteed? Have you not noticed that the vast vast majority of lottery picks don't turn a franchise into an instant contender like OKC?

It IS possible to rebuild through the draft, but it isn't by any means a guarantee. Especially with what is projected to be a weak draft this season. We already have a star, it makes no sense to get rid of him for the purposes of tanking. We either get rid of him for a real star, or build a team around him.


Cousins and Evans for Rondo (as an example) is a pretty solid rebuilding trade.  You get 2 younger and just as talented players for 1 older injury prone, but better player.

Why are Cousins and Evans any better for rebuilding than Rondo?


That is what you should do unless your team is one of the top contenders, and for the record, OKC actually traded its third best player, for multiple lesser parts and is probably just as good as they would have been with Harden and have much greater flexibility going forward.

To win in the NBA, you need a star player. Nobody questions this. We have a star player. Granted, he is not Lebron, but he has proven on multiple occasions that he is a star, and by virtually every statistical method of measuring basketball he ranks extremely high.

You are supposed to build around a star. What's the point of getting rid of a proven star for the CHANCE of getting another star in the next couple of seasons? All it does is make us a bad team for a couple of years for the off-chance we get as lucky in the draft as OKC did. What happens when we don't get a star in the draft? Then we are just bad forever.

So we either keep the star we have and try to build a contender around him, or try to get another star.

I will give you that trading Rondo for pieces could potentially help us land a star in a trade down the line, and Danny is smart enough to pull something like that off.
Just a couple of general things.  Rondo is a "star" but he is not a franchise cornerstone type "star".  Boston no longer has one of those (KG was and Pierce (and Allen) were to lesser extents, none are any more).  With Rondo on the team especially with no cap space for at least 3 years, Boston has no shot of getting one of those players in free agency and thus its only shot is trading or through the draft.  With Rondo, Boston will not be bad enough in the next 3 or 4 drafts to realistically have a shot at a franchise player through draft (sure it might get lucky and win the lottery, but that is unrealistic).  Similarly, Boston has just 5 real assets on the roster (KG, Pierce, Rondo, Bradley, and Sullinger) and Rondo is the only one that could yield Boston multiple younger assets that might develop into a franchise type player.  Additionally, most trades involving Rondo would also likely make Boston a worse team in the short term (and very well might lead KG and PP to retire this summer), which in turn might actually put Boston into a realistic position to get a franchise type player or two through the draft in the next few seasons.

Building around a second tier player just doesn't get you a title.  Drafting the guy in the draft or trading multiple young assets (obtained through the draft) for the guy is how you get franchise players when you don't have cap space and by the time Boston has cap space, Rondo will be on the downside of his career.  It just doesn't make sense to try and build around him.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: BballTim on January 11, 2013, 08:23:57 PM
If you are rebuilding you don't hang onto a player that won't let you be truly awful.

To rebuild you want to rebuild around a star. Rondo IS a star. What's the point of tanking for the lottery? For the off-chance we get a better player, which is by no means guaranteed? Have you not noticed that the vast vast majority of lottery picks don't turn a franchise into an instant contender like OKC?

It IS possible to rebuild through the draft, but it isn't by any means a guarantee. Especially with what is projected to be a weak draft this season. We already have a star, it makes no sense to get rid of him for the purposes of tanking. We either get rid of him for a real star, or build a team around him.


Cousins and Evans for Rondo (as an example) is a pretty solid rebuilding trade.  You get 2 younger and just as talented players for 1 older injury prone, but better player.

Why are Cousins and Evans any better for rebuilding than Rondo?


That is what you should do unless your team is one of the top contenders, and for the record, OKC actually traded its third best player, for multiple lesser parts and is probably just as good as they would have been with Harden and have much greater flexibility going forward.

To win in the NBA, you need a star player. Nobody questions this. We have a star player. Granted, he is not Lebron, but he has proven on multiple occasions that he is a star, and by virtually every statistical method of measuring basketball he ranks extremely high.

You are supposed to build around a star. What's the point of getting rid of a proven star for the CHANCE of getting another star in the next couple of seasons? All it does is make us a bad team for a couple of years for the off-chance we get as lucky in the draft as OKC did. What happens when we don't get a star in the draft? Then we are just bad forever.

So we either keep the star we have and try to build a contender around him, or try to get another star.

I will give you that trading Rondo for pieces could potentially help us land a star in a trade down the line, and Danny is smart enough to pull something like that off.
Just a couple of general things.  Rondo is a "star" but he is not a franchise cornerstone type "star".  Boston no longer has one of those (KG was and Pierce (and Allen) were to lesser extents, none are any more).  With Rondo on the team especially with no cap space for at least 3 years, Boston has no shot of getting one of those players in free agency and thus its only shot is trading or through the draft.  With Rondo, Boston will not be bad enough in the next 3 or 4 drafts to realistically have a shot at a franchise player through draft (sure it might get lucky and win the lottery, but that is unrealistic).  Similarly, Boston has just 5 real assets on the roster (KG, Pierce, Rondo, Bradley, and Sullinger) and Rondo is the only one that could yield Boston multiple younger assets that might develop into a franchise type player.  Additionally, most trades involving Rondo would also likely make Boston a worse team in the short term (and very well might lead KG and PP to retire this summer), which in turn might actually put Boston into a realistic position to get a franchise type player or two through the draft in the next few seasons.

Building around a second tier player just doesn't get you a title.  Drafting the guy in the draft or trading multiple young assets (obtained through the draft) for the guy is how you get franchise players when you don't have cap space and by the time Boston has cap space, Rondo will be on the downside of his career.  It just doesn't make sense to try and build around him.

  Rondo's only 26 and he's led a team deep into the playoffs. You're talking about getting rid of Rondo because he can't do what he's already shown that he's capable of doing in order to suck for a while and cross your fingers that you'll eventually get a player that can, er, lead a team to a deep playoff run.
Title: Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
Post by: LooseCannon on January 11, 2013, 10:23:28 PM
If you are rebuilding you don't hang onto a player that won't let you be truly awful.  It is far better to be downright awful then to be mediocre.

You are better off barely missing the playoffs and hoping to get lucky in the lottery than to be downright awful.  To be truly horrible, you either need to be destroyed by injuries, collapse after a star leaves your team, or have a mediocre team and pick busts in the lottery multiple years in a row.  Or maybe hire a moron as your coach.

The Celtics have pieces to be contenders through 2014-2015 (or at least through next season).  If the Celtics can get two rotation-caliber players from Fab Melo and their next two years of drafts, the Celtics have an excellent cap situation with a relatively young (and cheap) core that would allow them to re-sign Rondo in the summer of 2015 and still possibly have room for a max free agent.

Of course, if Sullinger develops into a Paul Millsap-level PF and Avery Bradley improves so that no one sneers at the idea that Joe Dumars is his ceiling, and Fab Melo follows the same career trajectory as Ian Mahinmi, and Jeff Green plays well enough so that the consensus is that he is an adequate replacement for Paul Pierce in the starting lineup, then maybe the team doesn't need a superstar free agent to be a contender.  Everything working out perfectly like that is unlikely, but it's reasonable enough that you're not crazy for having some hope that it can happen.