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Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: OmarSekou on March 18, 2012, 09:14:56 PM

Title: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: OmarSekou on March 18, 2012, 09:14:56 PM
After the trade deadline there's been a mixed reaction to Danny's decision stand pat. A lot of people feel that we should have done something/anything because we're not contenders this year.

What franchise has made smart decisions over the past decade? Who would you like to see the Celtics model themselves after? What would that look like in terms of our immediate and long term strategy?
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: mqtcelticsfan on March 18, 2012, 09:21:32 PM
While the Heat is probably the team in the best position for the next 10 years, I'd say the Thunder would be the best team to model a franchise after. They drafted as well as any team in the NBA over the past 5 years and didn't bog themselves down with bad contracts.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: tyrone biggums on March 18, 2012, 09:26:35 PM
After the trade deadline there's been a mixed reaction to Danny's decision stand pat. A lot of people feel that we should have done something/anything because we're not contenders this year.

What franchise has made smart decisions over the past decade? Who would you like to see the Celtics model themselves after? What would that look like in terms of our immediate and long term strategy?

Honestly? The best run franchise in the NBA is...The Spurs. They have been in contention the longest, won 4 titles in a 9 year period...people forget about them because of Shaq and Kobe but that is the model especially with an older team that needs to be used.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: Who on March 18, 2012, 09:28:03 PM
I think the Celtics are one of the best run organizations in the NBA and are an example to the rest of the league as to how to run an NBA team.

Danny Ainge has done an excellent job. He has already built an organization that is doing things the right way.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: Scribbles on March 18, 2012, 09:41:06 PM
San Antonio for sure.  Dallas has been well run since Cuban took over.  The Jazz have been a solid run franchise as well. They haven't been at a championship level in a while but they seem to rebuild quickly and get solid players via trade or the draft and get back to playoff contention quick enough. 
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: RJ87 on March 18, 2012, 09:56:04 PM
The Spurs, for sure. But OKC was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. They should be the model for a rebuilding franchise.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: Chris on March 18, 2012, 10:11:09 PM
The Spurs, for sure. But OKC was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. They should be the model for a rebuilding franchise.

Yes, get really, really lucky.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: greenpride32 on March 18, 2012, 10:16:35 PM
The Spurs, for sure. But OKC was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. They should be the model for a rebuilding franchise.

Yes, get really, really lucky.

Exactly; you beat me to the punch.  OCK drafted Durant 2nd overall, Harden 3rd overall, and Westbrook 4th overall.  Where is the model in that?  You never really know who's going to turn out to be a star in the draft; it's all a crapshoot.  Also how many teams are going to get that many high picks in successive years? 

SA lucked out with Robinson and Duncan years later.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: Boris Badenov on March 18, 2012, 10:42:30 PM
The Spurs, for sure. But OKC was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. They should be the model for a rebuilding franchise.

Yes, get really, really lucky.

Exactly; you beat me to the punch.  OCK drafted Durant 2nd overall, Harden 3rd overall, and Westbrook 4th overall.  Where is the model in that?  You never really know who's going to turn out to be a star in the draft; it's all a crapshoot.  Also how many teams are going to get that many high picks in successive years? 

SA lucked out with Robinson and Duncan years later.

OKC lucked out getting the Durant pick, sure. But Westbrook and Harden? Those were just wise picks (Harden in particular, since Love was taken just after Westbrook). It doesn't appear to be a fluke, either, since they also picked up Ibaka. The Sefolosha and Perkins trades were solid at worst, and potentially much better than that.

Are you saying that management deserves no credit for those?

Similarly, the Spurs have an absolutely outstanding draft record. Parker at 28. Ginobili at 57. Scola at 55. Barbosa at 28. Hill at 26. Blair at 37. More recently, Splitter at 28. Very hard to argue coincidence with those picks, since there's a very clear theme of identifying Euro talent.

Again, yes - getting the Duncan pick was luck.

But in both cases, the factor differentiating those teams from ones like Orlando with DH, or Cleveland with Lebron, is exceptional skill by the front office in surrounding the lead guy with quality players.

For the record, I'll say that our Celtics are at the top of the list too. Building a championship team from scratch with no top-5 players, and then wrapping up the era with cap space and multiple picks in a deep draft, is about as good as one could expect.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: mqtcelticsfan on March 18, 2012, 10:48:53 PM
If we're not going to give credit to Presti for not having a single terrible contract on the roster for years, I don't know what a team has to do to get it right.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: StartOrien on March 18, 2012, 10:58:13 PM
The Spurs, for sure. But OKC was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. They should be the model for a rebuilding franchise.

Yes, get really, really lucky.

Exactly; you beat me to the punch.  OCK drafted Durant 2nd overall, Harden 3rd overall, and Westbrook 4th overall.  Where is the model in that?  You never really know who's going to turn out to be a star in the draft; it's all a crapshoot.  Also how many teams are going to get that many high picks in successive years? 

SA lucked out with Robinson and Duncan years later.

Harden and Westbrook were far from slam dunk picks when they were selected - both were actually projected to go later than Presti picked them. They've also been patient, and have done a good job on not reaching to hurt their cap.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: OnyxCashew on March 18, 2012, 11:26:39 PM
Da Spurz.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: NextCeltic34 on March 18, 2012, 11:29:13 PM
EASILY the Denver Nuggets
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: Kane3387 on March 18, 2012, 11:31:29 PM
The Spurs, for sure. But OKC was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. They should be the model for a rebuilding franchise.

Yes, get really, really lucky.

Exactly; you beat me to the punch.  OCK drafted Durant 2nd overall, Harden 3rd overall, and Westbrook 4th overall.  Where is the model in that?  You never really know who's going to turn out to be a star in the draft; it's all a crapshoot.  Also how many teams are going to get that many high picks in successive years? 

SA lucked out with Robinson and Duncan years later.

OKC lucked out getting the Durant pick, sure. But Westbrook and Harden? Those were just wise picks (Harden in particular, since Love was taken just after Westbrook). It doesn't appear to be a fluke, either, since they also picked up Ibaka. The Sefolosha and Perkins trades were solid at worst, and potentially much better than that.

Are you saying that management deserves no credit for those?

Similarly, the Spurs have an absolutely outstanding draft record. Parker at 28. Ginobili at 57. Scola at 55. Barbosa at 28. Hill at 26. Blair at 37. More recently, Splitter at 28. Very hard to argue coincidence with those picks, since there's a very clear theme of identifying Euro talent.

Again, yes - getting the Duncan pick was luck.

But in both cases, the factor differentiating those teams from ones like Orlando with DH, or Cleveland with Lebron, is exceptional skill by the front office in surrounding the lead guy with quality players.

For the record, I'll say that our Celtics are at the top of the list too. Building a championship team from scratch with no top-5 players, and then wrapping up the era with cap space and multiple picks in a deep draft, is about as good as one could expect.

Spurs don't take Parker if it isn't for Presti. He is an exceptional GM.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: pearljammer10 on March 18, 2012, 11:37:35 PM
Gotta go with the Spurs...Contenders since Duncan was drafted. Amazing how they steal talent at late points in the draft.

As far as rebuilding its hard not to take OKC and a great example.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: mqtcelticsfan on March 18, 2012, 11:53:23 PM
EASILY the Denver Nuggets

Eh? They got a solid return on Melo, but there's practically no argument in favor of them against the Spurs, Thunder, Bulls or Heat, let alone a number of other teams.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: OmarSekou on March 19, 2012, 12:23:50 AM
I agree with most that it's the Spurs.

Some other good choices were brought up, but the Thunder for example have just gotten good recently. And while they've been smart, they also drafted one of the 5 best players in the league (Durant) and had 3 other draft picks pan out well (Green, Westbrook, and Harden).

A lot of the good teams now went from the lottery to the playoffs after drafting a superstar. None of those teams have won yet (maybe the Heat with Wade but they got Shaq on a discount after the Kobe beef).

The Spurs have ridden out their superstar for over a decade and wisely built a team around him. They've never blown everything up. They've kept their core and tinkered with the supporting cast. I wonder if their fans are going "we need to dump Duncan, Manu, and Parker to rebuild." Granted their record is much better than ours, but not a lot of people are giving them a legitimate shot this year for the same reasons they don't give us one.

If that's our model, then the "let's blow it up and hope we draft a superstar" plan shouldn't be our play. Field a competitive team for as long as we can, don't overpay players, don't get desperate for trades.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: LooseCannon on March 19, 2012, 12:40:57 AM
EASILY the Denver Nuggets

The Nuggets are a horribly-run franchise that should be the poster child for how to be a perpetual fringe playoff team.  We're looking at a team that has had first-round playoff exits in seven of the last eight seasons.  They keep handing out bad contracts to players like Aron Affalo, Al Harrington, Chris Andersen, and Wilson Chandler.

I'd be willing to bet that the Celtics win their next title before Denver wins one.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: LooseCannon on March 19, 2012, 12:48:52 AM
The Spurs, for sure. But OKC was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. They should be the model for a rebuilding franchise.

I'm not as big of a fan of the "OKC model" because you usually have to run a franchise the way Seattle was run in the years before 2007 in order to be in a position to draft a player such as Durant.  It's hard to get that bad overnight.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: Celtics18 on March 19, 2012, 01:09:48 AM
The Boston Celtics, The San Antonio Spurs. 
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: More Banners on March 19, 2012, 01:36:21 AM
Gotta go with Memphis and old pal Chris Wallace.

Strange but true.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: jdz101 on March 19, 2012, 04:59:00 AM
If we're not going to give credit to Presti for not having a single terrible contract on the roster for years, I don't know what a team has to do to get it right.

Kendrick Perkins
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: lepoooo on March 19, 2012, 08:29:48 AM
If that's our model, then the "let's blow it up and hope we draft a superstar" plan shouldn't be our play. Field a competitive team for as long as we can, don't overpay players, don't get desperate for trades.

You seem to forget that the Spurs drafted Duncan. If Duncan is not a superstar, then who is? He is the definition of a franchise player. Keeps his head down, works, leads by example. He is not flashy, he is not noisy but that makes him the biggest superstar of the last 15 years basketball-wise. Bigger than Kobe and Shaq who had the opportunity to dominate the league for 10 years together but who blew it up because of their sad egos.

Duncan had the Admiral with him in the beginning, it made things easier for them to grab their first title in '99, however he still is the drafted cornerstone that the Spurs have been building on for 15 years.

Choosing the Spurs to make a point about why drafting a superstar should not be the Celtics plan is really a mistake. The Spurs were lucky to land Duncan and then pairing him with Robinson, but they built their teams through the draft, and it all began with Duncan.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: LooseCannon on March 19, 2012, 08:53:01 AM
During David Robinson's career, the Spurs fielded a competitive team that always made it to the playoffs but made it to the conference finals once until he broke his foot and played only 6 games in the 1996-97 season, leading to a 20-win season.

San Antonio didn't blow it up in order to get Tim Duncan.  They got lucky to lose their star player to injury at just the right time.  You can praise how they have acquired players to build around Tim Dunca, but the Spurs are not a team you can really point to as a model for how to go about putting yourself into a position to draft a franchise player that you build around.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: wdleehi on March 19, 2012, 09:37:46 AM
Spurs.  They got lucky in the draft, but did a great job through out Duncan's career finding players (from role player to stars) that fit into his style. 


Thunder have done a great job with their picks and trades. 


Places like Miami and the Lakers have done a good job taking advantage of their location. 


Boston did a great job using it assets to build a title team. 
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: 35Lewis on March 19, 2012, 09:42:34 AM
It's hard to generalize because different GM's take over and some teams start in different places.

I think the Celtics have done a fine job running the organization since Ainge took over.  The Spurs have always done well because they have a particular model that they stick to like drafting foreign players because they know the only way to get possible future stars like Ginobili is to get a guy low that has a long Euro contract.  Okc has impressed me with their patience as they could have wanted it quicker like the Bulls and handed out bad contracts like Ben Wallace.  And now that Bird has complete control in Indian I think he has figured out what he is looking for and he has set that team up to do some great things.  Oh and I like what Morey does considering his market and the bad luck the franchise has had.

Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: CoachBo on March 19, 2012, 10:04:51 AM
If we're not going to give credit to Presti for not having a single terrible contract on the roster for years, I don't know what a team has to do to get it right.

Kendrick Perkins

4 pts, 5 boards a game.

Horrific contract.

Presti got hosed by Ainge on the Ray Allen deal, and if Green had stayed healthy we'd be laughing at Presti about this one, too. I'm certainly laughing at OKC's wild overpay for Perkins anyway.

Nobody's perfect, but the Spurs and Lakers seem to find a way not to plummmet, as it appears inevitable we're going to do armed with all this useless cap space this summer and going forward.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: wdleehi on March 19, 2012, 10:08:57 AM
If we're not going to give credit to Presti for not having a single terrible contract on the roster for years, I don't know what a team has to do to get it right.

Kendrick Perkins

4 pts, 5 boards a game.

Horrific contract.

Presti got hosed by Ainge on the Ray Allen deal, and if Green had stayed healthy we'd be laughing at Presti about this one, too. I'm certainly laughing at OKC's wild overpay for Perkins anyway.

Nobody's perfect, but the Spurs and Lakers seem to find a way not to plummmet, as it appears inevitable we're going to do armed with all this useless cap space this summer and going forward.


A better team since the trade. 


Boston, a worse team. 


How did Ainge hose him?  (I mean besides 'ifs'.  Because we always grade coaches and GMs on "ifs")
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: Boris Badenov on March 19, 2012, 10:55:50 AM

San Antonio didn't blow it up in order to get Tim Duncan.  They got lucky to lose their star player to injury at just the right time.

You could say the same thing about the C's, actually. And in our case I'm not really sure Pierce was even hurt!
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: Marcus13 on March 19, 2012, 11:30:10 AM
Those pesky Lakers are the blueprint...but blah

Sam Presti is also doing his thing in OKC but until he gets a championship, I wont give him too much credit
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: bdm860 on March 19, 2012, 11:42:49 AM
I put a big emphasis on who the team doesn’t re-sign/build around.

There are too many star players, All-Star caliber players but not superstars, that teams give big contracts to.  If you give max money to a player, he better be able to be the cornerstone of a championship team, most players that get the big contracts don’t come close to this.  So I think teams that don’t automatically give 20ppg scorers big money deals, and not overpaying fan favorites, have a big part of the formula for success down.

Chicago – Ben Gordon, averaging around 20ppg for 3 straight years, wants 10m+, I really think most teams would have given it to him.  Same thing with Eddy Curry, the Bulls acted cautiously when it was time to give him a big contract, while the Knicks couldn’t wait to throw money at him.  Both smart moves a lot of teams wouldn’t have made.

Boston – Danny Ainge comes in, immediately trades All-Star Antoine Walker, because he doesn’t think you can build a legitimate contender with him.  Reacquires Antoine later (for basically nothing), but trades him away again because he doesn’t want to give Antoine the long term contract he wants.  Trades fan favorites Eric Williams and Tony Battie during a 5 game winning streak for the notorious Ricky Davis.  Traded away beloved Kendrick Perkins.  Most GM’s would be scared to make these moves, and though there may be some disagreement on the Perk deal, looking back those were the right moves, and most GM’s wouldn’t have made them.

On the other side, you have teams like Atlanta, giving Joe Johnson that huge contract, and teams like Toronto who did everything they could to re-sign Chris Bosh (so they could win 45 games and get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs every year?).  A guy like Danny Ainge, knowing they’re not worth the money and can’t build around them, would have probably traded them before their contracts were up for lesser players and picks, enraged the fan base while doing so, but would be in a much better position now.  Joe Dumars in the beginning seemed good at doing this, trading away Jerry Stackhouse, one season removed from averaging 30ppg and hoping for a big contract, for Rip Hamilton. Got Ben Wallace in a sign-and-trade for Grant Hill.  Who thought the Pistons won those trades at the time?  Did Washington really think they could build a contender around Gilbert Arenas, or is a big reason they gave him a $100m+ contract a season after playing only 13 games due to knee injuries because it would make the fans happy?

Screw the fans, don’t keep players because it will make the fans happy.  When your winning they’ll come rushing back.

Also don’t sign/trade for players to appease your stars, talking about you Orlando and Cleveland. Summer of 2007, Kobe urged management to trade 2nd year Andrew Bynum for All-Star Jason Kidd.  Orlando or Cleveland probably would have made that trade in an instant to make LeBron or Dwight happy.  I bet looking back Kobe’s glad management didn’t listen to him.  (Although I do think you should get input from your players, just don’t let them call the shots). 

Teams that do this are doing things right.  Though it’s not always easy to know which teams are doing this or not, it’s easy to know teams that definitely aren’t:  Washington, Orlando, Cleveland, Atlanta, Toronto, New York, Sacramento, Golden State, Charlotte, Philadelphia…
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: Boris Badenov on March 19, 2012, 11:44:58 AM
Those pesky Lakers are the blueprint...but blah


I think by "blueprint" most people here mean something any GM could actually emulate.

"Put your team in a city with perfect weather and half a million hot women" doesn't give the typical GM much to go on.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: CelticG1 on March 19, 2012, 11:45:09 AM
Yeah i can't give OKC too much credit until they make at least 1 finals appearance. It may look good on paper and may look smart but you need something to back up those moves.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: OmarSekou on March 19, 2012, 11:57:50 AM
If that's our model, then the "let's blow it up and hope we draft a superstar" plan shouldn't be our play. Field a competitive team for as long as we can, don't overpay players, don't get desperate for trades.

You seem to forget that the Spurs drafted Duncan. If Duncan is not a superstar, then who is? He is the definition of a franchise player. Keeps his head down, works, leads by example. He is not flashy, he is not noisy but that makes him the biggest superstar of the last 15 years basketball-wise. Bigger than Kobe and Shaq who had the opportunity to dominate the league for 10 years together but who blew it up because of their sad egos.

Duncan had the Admiral with him in the beginning, it made things easier for them to grab their first title in '99, however he still is the drafted cornerstone that the Spurs have been building on for 15 years.

Choosing the Spurs to make a point about why drafting a superstar should not be the Celtics plan is really a mistake. The Spurs were lucky to land Duncan and then pairing him with Robinson, but they built their teams through the draft, and it all began with Duncan.
I'm not saying we shouldn't try and draft a superstar. I'm saying that we shouldn't turn ourselves into a losing team to do it. If it happens eventually with guys playing hard and us trying to win then fine. But to me blowing it up (considering we wouldn't have gotten fair value) is saying, let's tank next season and hope we get lucky in the draft. If we can make trades to get a superstar or turn us into a well-rounded title contending team then let's do it. If not, I'm happy with the guys we've got and would love to see them retire as Celtics before we return to the lottery crap shoot and try to rebuild.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: Boris Badenov on March 19, 2012, 01:03:42 PM
You know what's interesting about this whole discussion? We - a group of people who can disagree violently about the most trivial things - have little trouble identifying the best and worst franchises.

What's more, the differences between them are simple: the bad GMs pay lots of money to second-tier talent on long-term contracts.

I mean, there's not even room for much argument about this. No one thought Ben Gordon would morph into a franchise talent. Same goes for Arenas, or Antawn Jamison, or Joe Johnson - the list goes on and on.

So if your rule as a GM is "offer no large contract to anyone but true franchise players" you will basically beat half the other GMs in the league.

It shouldn't be that easy. But it is.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: dlpin on March 19, 2012, 02:20:19 PM
OKC isn't a model franchise. They are a lucky one.

Portland picks Durant, and OKC is still struggling to make the playoffs. Harden and Westbrook are nice, but not that nice.

On top of which, there is also the luck of those picks as well. 2008 was a ridiculously deep draft, and had them ended up with the 2nd pick (instead of the 4th) they likely would have ended with beasley, who was a consensus top 2 pick. And then in 09, they end up with the 3rd pick despite having the 4th worst record (lucky in itself) and get Harden.

A couple of ping pong balls go different ways, a couple of teams draft more wisely, and they'd be the kings.

Not to mention that Presti was lucky that the owners wanted the team to tank to be able to move it. Most other franchises would have fired the GM after 3 straight years with records in the bottom 5 in the league.



Spurs is by far the best run franchise. Yes, Duncan was a one in a life time talent they lucked into. But without top picks or being a desirable destination, they've kept that team relevant for almost 15 years. Parker and Ginobili were drafted late, they always seem to find good pick ups, and so on.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: mqtcelticsfan on March 19, 2012, 02:21:58 PM
If we're not going to give credit to Presti for not having a single terrible contract on the roster for years, I don't know what a team has to do to get it right.

Kendrick Perkins

His contract isn't that big, and he is still one of the better defensive Centers in the NBA.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: CFAN38 on March 19, 2012, 02:59:40 PM
I would have to say over the past 15 years the Spurs are the best run franchise. There ability to find talent late in the draft is second to none. They have also managed to avoid personality's that are detrimental to there team. I will be very interested to see how they transition away from Tim Duncan as he approaches retirement. 
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: Eddie20 on March 19, 2012, 03:15:14 PM
I would have to say over the past 15 years the Spurs are the best run franchise. There ability to find talent late in the draft is second to none. They have also managed to avoid personality's that are detrimental to there team. I will be very interested to see how they transition away from Tim Duncan as he approaches retirement. 

That's because they've always hit the International market strong (Manu, Scola, Parker, Splitter). They would stash a pick, rather than wasting one.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: CoachBo on March 19, 2012, 03:25:51 PM
If we're not going to give credit to Presti for not having a single terrible contract on the roster for years, I don't know what a team has to do to get it right.

Kendrick Perkins

His contract isn't that big, and he is still one of the better defensive Centers in the NBA.

Please, he's doing nothing in Oklahoma City except playing himself into an amnesty deal. Horribly overpaid for extremely poor numbers.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: CoachBo on March 19, 2012, 03:27:13 PM
If we're not going to give credit to Presti for not having a single terrible contract on the roster for years, I don't know what a team has to do to get it right.

Kendrick Perkins

4 pts, 5 boards a game.

Horrific contract.

Presti got hosed by Ainge on the Ray Allen deal, and if Green had stayed healthy we'd be laughing at Presti about this one, too. I'm certainly laughing at OKC's wild overpay for Perkins anyway.

Nobody's perfect, but the Spurs and Lakers seem to find a way not to plummmet, as it appears inevitable we're going to do armed with all this useless cap space this summer and going forward.


A better team since the trade.  


Boston, a worse team.  


How did Ainge hose him?  (I mean besides 'ifs'.  Because we always grade coaches and GMs on "ifs")

Weather's been dryer in OKC since the trade, too. Perkins get credit for that?

Massive underachiever riding the coattails of a team that would be as successful without him.


4 pts, less than 5 boards, $9 million a year. LOL at Sam Presti.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: wdleehi on March 19, 2012, 03:28:46 PM
If we're not going to give credit to Presti for not having a single terrible contract on the roster for years, I don't know what a team has to do to get it right.

Kendrick Perkins

4 pts, 5 boards a game.

Horrific contract.

Presti got hosed by Ainge on the Ray Allen deal, and if Green had stayed healthy we'd be laughing at Presti about this one, too. I'm certainly laughing at OKC's wild overpay for Perkins anyway.

Nobody's perfect, but the Spurs and Lakers seem to find a way not to plummmet, as it appears inevitable we're going to do armed with all this useless cap space this summer and going forward.


A better team since the trade. 


Boston, a worse team. 


How did Ainge hose him?  (I mean besides 'ifs'.  Because we always grade coaches and GMs on "ifs")

Weather's been dryer in OKC since the trade, too. Perkins get credit for that?

Massive overachiever riding the coattails of a team that would be as successful without him.



Since weather and players are not related, no. 



But please ignore the connection between players and records.  They have nothing to do with each other.  Teams win because of the weather. 
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: CelticG1 on March 19, 2012, 04:06:08 PM
If we're not going to give credit to Presti for not having a single terrible contract on the roster for years, I don't know what a team has to do to get it right.

Kendrick Perkins

4 pts, 5 boards a game.

Horrific contract.

Presti got hosed by Ainge on the Ray Allen deal, and if Green had stayed healthy we'd be laughing at Presti about this one, too. I'm certainly laughing at OKC's wild overpay for Perkins anyway.

Nobody's perfect, but the Spurs and Lakers seem to find a way not to plummmet, as it appears inevitable we're going to do armed with all this useless cap space this summer and going forward.


A better team since the trade. 


Boston, a worse team. 


How did Ainge hose him?  (I mean besides 'ifs'.  Because we always grade coaches and GMs on "ifs")

Weather's been dryer in OKC since the trade, too. Perkins get credit for that?

Massive overachiever riding the coattails of a team that would be as successful without him.



Since weather and players are not related, no. 



But please ignore the connection between players and records.  They have nothing to do with each other.  Teams win because of the weather. 

That's pretty much the only arguement you can make and there are plenty of arguments the other way.

It's like saying that Tebow is a good QB and thats why Denver was winning. If your only looking at the record than you have a point but if you actually dig into the players themselves you don't have much of an arguement
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: lepoooo on March 19, 2012, 04:19:56 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/perkike01.html

You check it!

All of Perk's stats are down from last year (all but one, his TO% is up ;) ).

9 millions for him is a very bad contract, I can't wait to see how they can get rid of him.
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: wdleehi on March 19, 2012, 07:46:12 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/perkike01.html

You check it!

All of Perk's stats are down from last year (all but one, his TO% is up ;) ).

9 millions for him is a very bad contract, I can't wait to see how they can get rid of him.


Check it out.  The team has played  better ever since he got there.  His teammates are happy he is there. 
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: jdz101 on March 19, 2012, 07:52:09 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/perkike01.html

You check it!

All of Perk's stats are down from last year (all but one, his TO% is up ;) ).

9 millions for him is a very bad contract, I can't wait to see how they can get rid of him.

Just looking on hoopdata for Perkins' Teammate Happiness %...nup cant seem to find it

Check it out.  The team has played  better ever since he got there.  His teammates are happy he is there. 
Title: Re: What franchise is doing things right?
Post by: mctyson on March 19, 2012, 08:53:09 PM
If we're not going to give credit to Presti for not having a single terrible contract on the roster for years, I don't know what a team has to do to get it right.

Kendrick Perkins

4 pts, 5 boards a game.

Horrific contract.

Presti got hosed by Ainge on the Ray Allen deal, and if Green had stayed healthy we'd be laughing at Presti about this one, too. I'm certainly laughing at OKC's wild overpay for Perkins anyway.

Nobody's perfect, but the Spurs and Lakers seem to find a way not to plummmet, as it appears inevitable we're going to do armed with all this useless cap space this summer and going forward.


A better team since the trade.  


Boston, a worse team.  


How did Ainge hose him?  (I mean besides 'ifs'.  Because we always grade coaches and GMs on "ifs")

Weather's been dryer in OKC since the trade, too. Perkins get credit for that?

Massive underachiever riding the coattails of a team that would be as successful without him.


4 pts, less than 5 boards, $9 million a year. LOL at Sam Presti.