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Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: LarBrd33 on March 01, 2012, 05:19:00 PM

Title: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: LarBrd33 on March 01, 2012, 05:19:00 PM
The thread comparing Avery Bradley's lowly stats to Rondo's lowly stats at age 21 sent me on a little bit of a research journey (looking at stats of PG's when they were young) until eventually I finally checked out Kyrie Irving's player card:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving

For some reason I had been completely ignoring him.  Yeah, I knew he was supposed to be ok, but whatever... I hadn't bothered looking into him in depth.  I just figured it was like young Rose > young John Wall > young Kyrie Irving.  Just another young PG with potential.  Meh.  He plays for the post-Lebron Cavs.  Boring.  LINSANITY!

Holy crap.  How good is Kyrie Irving??  He's 19 years old and averaging 18.5 points, 5.1 assists, 3.5 rebounds, but he's shooting 48%... 43% from from three.... 87% from the line.  Are you kidding me???  He's 19!!

Why have I been ignoring him?  I don't follow College ball.  Looked up his College stats.  Turns out he played a grand total of 11 games for Duke.  Averaged 17.5 points, 4.3 assists, 3.4 rebounds... shot 53%... 46% from three... 90% from the line.  Are you kidding me?  11 games??  This kid is literally 11 NCAA games and 30 NBA games removed from High School.  It's kind of unbelievable, actually.  Is there any comparison to what he's doing at age 19??  It's nothing short of incredible.

Almost have to consider him right up there with Durant, Ray Allen, Steve Nash and Steph Curry as the greatest shooters in the game right now and the kid is still in diapers... and he's doing all of this with pretty much nobody on his team.  It's incredibly they have even won 13 games with the garbage surrounding him.

Wow
          

Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Chris on March 01, 2012, 05:21:29 PM
He is the closest thing I have seen to Chris Paul at his peak.  I think he will be a top 5 player in the league within a year or two, and will stay there for a while.

Way to go Sterling!
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: PosImpos on March 01, 2012, 05:21:49 PM
Yeah, he's been pretty awesome.  Way better than anybody expected, I imagine.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: rondohondo on March 01, 2012, 05:22:56 PM
The thread comparing Avery Bradley's lowly stats to Rondo's lowly stats at age 21 sent me on a little bit of a research journey (looking at stats of PG's when they were young) until eventually I finally checked out Kyrie Irving's player card:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving

For some reason I had been completely ignoring him.  Yeah, I knew he was supposed to be ok, but whatever... I hadn't bothered looking into him in depth.  I just figured it was like young Rose > young John Wall > young Kyrie Irving.  Just another young PG with potential.  Meh.  He plays for the Cavs.  Boring.  LINSANITY!

Holy crap.  How good is Kyrie Irving??  He's 19 years old and averaging 18.5 points, 5.1 assists, 3.5 rebounds, but he's shooting 48%... 43% from from three.... 87% from the line.  Are you kidding me???  He's 19!!

Why have I been ignoring him?  I don't follow College ball.  Looked up his College stats.  Turns out he played a grand total of 11 games for Duke.  Averaged 17.5 points, 4.3 assists, 3.4 rebounds... shot 53%... 46% from three... 90% from the line.  Are you kidding me?  11 games??  This kid is literally 11 NCAA games and 30 NBA games removed from High School.  It's kind of unbelievable, actually.  Is there any comparison to what he's doing at age 19??  It's nothing short of incredible.

Almost have to consider him right up there with Durant, Ray Allen, Steve Nash and Steph Curry as the greatest shooters in the game right now and the kid is still in diapers... and he's doing all of this with pretty much nobody on his team.  It's incredibly they have even won 13 games with the garbage surrounding him.

Wow
         



he's been a beast all year and i started noticing after his game winning shot against the c's.

He is going to be right up there with cp3 and rose and if he gets some legit teammates the cavs will be back in the playoffs very soon.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: LarBrd33 on March 01, 2012, 05:30:10 PM
The thread comparing Avery Bradley's lowly stats to Rondo's lowly stats at age 21 sent me on a little bit of a research journey (looking at stats of PG's when they were young) until eventually I finally checked out Kyrie Irving's player card:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving

For some reason I had been completely ignoring him.  Yeah, I knew he was supposed to be ok, but whatever... I hadn't bothered looking into him in depth.  I just figured it was like young Rose > young John Wall > young Kyrie Irving.  Just another young PG with potential.  Meh.  He plays for the Cavs.  Boring.  LINSANITY!

Holy crap.  How good is Kyrie Irving??  He's 19 years old and averaging 18.5 points, 5.1 assists, 3.5 rebounds, but he's shooting 48%... 43% from from three.... 87% from the line.  Are you kidding me???  He's 19!!

Why have I been ignoring him?  I don't follow College ball.  Looked up his College stats.  Turns out he played a grand total of 11 games for Duke.  Averaged 17.5 points, 4.3 assists, 3.4 rebounds... shot 53%... 46% from three... 90% from the line.  Are you kidding me?  11 games??  This kid is literally 11 NCAA games and 30 NBA games removed from High School.  It's kind of unbelievable, actually.  Is there any comparison to what he's doing at age 19??  It's nothing short of incredible.

Almost have to consider him right up there with Durant, Ray Allen, Steve Nash and Steph Curry as the greatest shooters in the game right now and the kid is still in diapers... and he's doing all of this with pretty much nobody on his team.  It's incredibly they have even won 13 games with the garbage surrounding him.

Wow
         



he's been a beast all year and i started noticing after his game winning shot against the c's.

He is going to be right up there with cp3 and rose and if he gets some legit teammates the cavs will be back in the playoffs very soon.
Thats my point... when Rose came out they were like "He's got great potential but he's a poor man's Dwayne Wade"... when John Wall came out they were like, "He's a poor man's Rose"... and when Irving came out my perception was "he's a poor man's John Wall".

But holy crap... I can't believe I'm just now realizing what he's doing.  I mean, I even saw a front page ESPN thing on him a couple weeks ago and I ignored it.. "meh whatever... I'm sure he's having a nice little season"...

I don't think there is a single player who compares to what he's doing at age 19... those shooting percentages are insane.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: LarBrd33 on March 01, 2012, 05:34:35 PM
Also I should mention that I was out of town and missed the rookie game.  DIdn't realize he had put up 34 points, 9 assists and shot 8-8 from three.  I am running two fantasy teams and Irving is on one of them... and yet I still had completely ignored what he was doing.  If someone had asked me to guess what Irving's stats were I would have said... "well he plays on the Cavs... probably like 17 points... 41% shooting... 30% from three..65% from the line"... I had this perception locked into my mind that he was a poor man's John Wall.  A less athletic and slower version.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Roy H. on March 01, 2012, 05:37:38 PM
Yeah, he's definitely a stud, and he's 19.

I have somebody in another thread saying that Kyle Lowry is better than Kyrie Irving currently.  All I can do is shake my head.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: LarBrd33 on March 01, 2012, 05:49:07 PM
Yeah, he's definitely a stud, and he's 19.

I have somebody in another thread saying that Kyle Lowry is better than Kyrie Irving currently.  All I can do is shake my head.
i have another obsessed NBA fanatic friend and I just put him to the test as well:

Me:  "Without cheating... guess Kyrie Irving's stat line.  Points, rebounds, assists and his shooting percentages
Him:  17 4 6 1 40% 85%
Me: whats he shoot from three
Me: guess
Him: .333

Funny... the both of us just assumed he was putting up the kind of numbers you'd expect from a 19 year old PG with potential... John Wall percentages. 

Turns out Irving is an otherworldly shooter, though. 
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: TheReaLPuba on March 01, 2012, 05:54:57 PM
The kid definitely reminds me of Chris Paul but still needs to work on his court vision and defense.

I don't think anyone knew just how good of a shooter this kid really is. He probably has the best shot at the PG position besides Steve Nash.

To top it all off he doesn't play like a 19 year old rookie. He plays like he's a 5 year vet.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: LarBrd33 on March 01, 2012, 05:58:07 PM
One last thing... I should also bold the fact that he averages 31 minutes probably because Sessions is one of their better players...

CP averaged 36 as a rookie.  Rose averaged 37.  Wall averaged 38.

So project Irving's stats to 37 minutes and you'd get:

22 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: cman88 on March 01, 2012, 06:00:37 PM
Irving is going to end up being better than Rose, cP3, dwill etc. IMO

he is LEGIT...kind of funny when this past offseason people were saying this was going to be the worst draft in years and Irving wasnt a franchise player..but already you've got a budding superstar

and alot of guys contributing..
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: ManUp on March 01, 2012, 06:05:40 PM
I was sold his first game against us. He's continued to look amazing since. I really didn't want to take the leap and compare him to Paul, but that's honestly what I see when he plays. I know the passing numbers aren't there, but I expect it to come.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on March 01, 2012, 06:08:25 PM
Nice post.

I would not be surprised if there was some validity to Lebron going back to CLE. After all, he would have Kyrie there, and Andy would still be there, too.

Imagine Kyrie in 2 more years?

Toss in the fact that they'll probably miss the playoffs this year, get a few more pieces through the draft, and whatnot.

So in two-three yrs, if things don't work out in MIA(And I hope they DON'T ;D) - Lebron could go back to CLE and have a VERY good team there waiting for him.

What a story.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: LarBrd33 on March 01, 2012, 06:24:13 PM
Nice post.

I would not be surprised if there was some validity to Lebron going back to CLE. After all, he would have Kyrie there, and Andy would still be there, too.

Imagine Kyrie in 2 more years?

Toss in the fact that they'll probably miss the playoffs this year, get a few more pieces through the draft, and whatnot.

So in two-three yrs, if things don't work out in MIA(And I hope they DON'T ;D) - Lebron could go back to CLE and have a VERY good team there waiting for him.

What a story.
]

Currently they have the 8th best odds of landing Anthony Davis.  I'm just saying.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: pearljammer10 on March 01, 2012, 06:35:15 PM
I hadnt seen him play until 2 games ago when the celts played them. I thought he was absolutely amazing and couldnt believe he was only a rookie. After watching him again, I can only seeing him becoming a star.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: letsgoblue86 on March 01, 2012, 06:39:44 PM
He's kinda small, but that nba training will help him bulk up.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: ianboyextreme on March 01, 2012, 07:10:37 PM
Im serious when I say he reminds me of Kobe and Michael with his mix of natural ability as well as fundamentals.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on March 01, 2012, 07:15:56 PM
Nice post.

I would not be surprised if there was some validity to Lebron going back to CLE. After all, he would have Kyrie there, and Andy would still be there, too.

Imagine Kyrie in 2 more years?

Toss in the fact that they'll probably miss the playoffs this year, get a few more pieces through the draft, and whatnot.

So in two-three yrs, if things don't work out in MIA(And I hope they DON'T ;D) - Lebron could go back to CLE and have a VERY good team there waiting for him.

What a story.
]

Currently they have the 8th best odds of landing Anthony Davis.  I'm just saying.

Even more reason for LeGone James to bail out on MIA in 2-3 years, lol.....

Imagine Kyrie, Andy, Tony Davis, Tristan Thomas, Lebron and whatever other pieces they could acquire by then.

What a potential heist job by Lebron. And it wouldn't suprise me one bit.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: PosImpos on March 01, 2012, 08:06:57 PM
Interesting comparing Kyrie's rookie season to other recent highly-touted rookie PGs:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=evansty01&y1=2010&p2=irvinky01&y2=2012&p3=walljo01&y3=2011&p4=rosede01&y4=2009&p5=jennibr01&y5=2010
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: PosImpos on March 01, 2012, 08:12:47 PM
Comparison to rookie seasons of some other somewhat recent star PGs:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=irvinky01&y1=2012&p2=willide01&y2=2006&p3=paulch01&y3=2006&p4=thomais01&y4=1982&p5=marbust01&y5=1997
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: LooseCannon on March 02, 2012, 02:32:10 AM
Is there any comparison to what he's doing at age 19??  It's nothing short of incredible.

Limited to players with 30 or more games played in a season

Irving currently has a WS/48 of .147 (.100 is roughly average)  Teenagers with a WS48 of .115: Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, Chris Bosh, Thaddeus Young, Tracy McGrady, and Andris Biedrins (twice).

Teenagers who have averaged at least 15 ppg: Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James, Stephon Marbury, Kevin Durant

Teenagers who have averaged at least 4 apg: LeBron James, Tony Parker, Stephon Marbury, Shaun Livingston

Teenagers who have shot at least 37.5% on threes: Kobe Bryant, Jrue Holiday
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: LarBrd33 on March 02, 2012, 03:55:06 AM
Is there any comparison to what he's doing at age 19??  It's nothing short of incredible.

Limited to players with 30 or more games played in a season

Irving currently has a WS/48 of .147 (.100 is roughly average)  Teenagers with a WS48 of .115: Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, Chris Bosh, Thaddeus Young, Tracy McGrady, and Andris Biedrins (twice).

Teenagers who have averaged at least 15 ppg: Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James, Stephon Marbury, Kevin Durant

Teenagers who have averaged at least 4 apg: LeBron James, Tony Parker, Stephon Marbury, Shaun Livingston

Teenagers who have shot at least 37.5% on threes: Kobe Bryant, Jrue Holiday
Good stuff...

The WS/48 thing... don't even know what to say about it, because a couple of those guys were averaging like 10 minutes a game. 

A couple slightly misleading points... Like Kobe shooting 37.5% on threes. He only took 130 of them his rookie season.  Shot 41% overall that season and only averaged 7.6 points.  The next year (age 19) he averaged 15 points, shot 43% and only 34% from three.  So... it wouldn't be a stretch to say Kyrie Irving at age 19 is better than Kobe Bryant at age 19.  In fact... if we're just looking at shooting percentages, Kobe has never in his entire career come close to shooting the percentages that Kyrie is currently averaging.  Naturally I probably just jinxed Kyrie and he'll go into a shooting slump, but I'm just sayin... Kobe has never shot over 47% and has never shot over 38% from three.  For his career he has shot 45%, 34% from three and 83% from the line.  If Kyrie can keep this up his rookie season, with almost no help, and being his team's top scorer... wow.  Unreal.



Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Roy H. on March 05, 2012, 03:27:42 PM
Apparently, Kyrie Irving is the 43rd player in NBA history to average at least 18 pts and shoot 48% FG, 40% 3pt and 80% FT.  Assuming he keeps those averages up, that's pretty amazing stuff, especially for a 19 year old.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: mmmmm on March 05, 2012, 04:45:20 PM
What more is there to say than to just chime in with, "Wow - The kid is freaking awesome!"

I first noticed him a few games before the first Bos-Cle game, because he started to tear up other teams.   I sorta remembered then, oh yeah, wasn't he a high draft pick or something?

I think the comment that he plays like a 5-year vet already is spot on.

Cleveland fans can be happy about some good karma coming their way as a consequence of 'The Decision'.  Irving is definitely on his way to being a super star.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Adelaide Celt on March 05, 2012, 05:41:14 PM
I'd love to see this kid playing for Australia at the Olympics ;)
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 05, 2012, 06:01:01 PM
Quote
Imagine Kyrie, Andy, Tony Davis, Tristan Thomas, Lebron and whatever other pieces they could acquire by then.

What a potential heist job by Lebron. And it wouldn't suprise me one bit.

Irving would have to take the big shot as LeBron would not.  Besides a lot of folks hate him in CLE nowadays.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: thestackshow on March 05, 2012, 06:02:36 PM
Hes definately good, tons of potential in that kid. I feel great for the cleveland fans, they will be a playoff team with a couple more pieces, or maybe in a few years while the young pieces they have just get better.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Smutzy#9 on March 05, 2012, 06:17:23 PM
I'd love to see this kid playing for Australia at the Olympics ;)

Id love to see nic nat play for Australia at the olympics.

i think Irving has gone under everyones radar. He has surely exceeded my expectations of him. For a number 1 draft pick he isnt that polarising which is how he has slipped under peoples radar.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: SHAQATTACK on March 05, 2012, 06:31:37 PM
I would die if the Lakers got him...it would be as bad as CP3 going there ::)
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: jimmehx on March 05, 2012, 06:34:52 PM
I had no idea he was so young..! He's on track to being something special.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Neurotic Guy on March 05, 2012, 07:33:19 PM
Amazing is the crop of young PGs in this league. CP, DW, Ricky Rubio, Rondo, Rose, Irving, Jennings, Westbrook.  Incredible.

There is a part of me that wonders if the dynamic of having a defensive stopper at PG like AB might be worth more in this era than ever.  If Avery develops his overall game, it will be interesting to see how the C's can use him and Rondo as PG/backup or 1/2 tandem to impact the flow of games against the leagues great PGs.   
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 18, 2013, 07:48:28 PM
So it's been a year since I made this post about Kyrie Irving and I feel like people are still just starting to figure out how good he is.  Today a co-worker said to me, "Man I came away from that allstar weekend realizing Kyrie Irving is really good... I didn't realize he could shoot... I thought he was shooting like 40%" ... It's crazy.  I swear it's because Irving is playing in Cleveland where King James's dust still lingers in the arena.  Some people are just now starting to realize this kid is incredible.  I've never seen a point guard his age with such efficient scoring ability.  This year he's averaging 23.5 points on 47% shooting, 43% from three and 85% from the line... he's 20 years old.  It's unreal.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Atzar on February 18, 2013, 08:01:27 PM
So it's been a year since I made this post about Kyrie Irving and I feel like people are still just starting to figure out how good he is.  Today a co-worker said to me, "Man I came away from that allstar weekend realizing Kyrie Irving is really good... I didn't realize he could shoot... I thought he was shooting like 40%" ... It's crazy.  I swear it's because Irving is playing in Cleveland where King James's dust still lingers in the arena.  Some people are just now starting to realize this kid is incredible.  I've never seen a point guard his age with such efficient scoring ability.  This year he's averaging 23.5 points on 47% shooting, 43% from three and 85% from the line... he's 20 years old.  It's unreal.

If they find him a legit #2 option so he can improve his shot selection a bit, he has a real chance at joining the 50/40/90 club.  It's crazy how efficient he is with the kinds of shots he takes.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Onslaught on February 18, 2013, 08:06:06 PM
I'm a Duke fan and I didn't think he'd be near this good. I didn't even think he was that great when he played for us those few games he did. Happy to be wrong.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 18, 2013, 08:15:52 PM
Could be a LeBron talent... and LeBron is top-5 all time
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: syfy9 on February 18, 2013, 08:17:22 PM
The fact he missed so much of his college season really strayed me away. I thought he was injury prone, but he's alive and well right now. I hope that it will stay that way - I love watching him play.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: BballTim on February 18, 2013, 08:19:59 PM
Could be a LeBron talent... and LeBron is top-5 all time

  The best thing about Irving isn't his scoring, it's how well he handles himself in clutch situations. Ice water in veins. But he's no LeBron, and LeBron isn't top-5 all time.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: action781 on February 18, 2013, 09:12:21 PM
Amazing is the crop of young PGs in this league. CP, DW, Ricky Rubio, Rondo, Rose, Irving, Jennings, Westbrook.  Incredible.

There is a part of me that wonders if the dynamic of having a defensive stopper at PG like AB might be worth more in this era than ever.  If Avery develops his overall game, it will be interesting to see how the C's can use him and Rondo as PG/backup or 1/2 tandem to impact the flow of games against the leagues great PGs.

Very interesting point.  There really are no other defensive stoppers like him at the PG position in the league.

Could be like a Bruce Bowen with a better offensive game.  Or a Ron Artest who doesn't fight fans.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: action781 on February 18, 2013, 09:24:34 PM
Could be a LeBron talent... and LeBron is top-5 all time

  The best thing about Irving isn't his scoring, it's how well he handles himself in clutch situations. Ice water in veins. But he's no LeBron, and LeBron isn't top-5 all time.

Yeah, hes definitely no Lebron.  While lebron may not be top 5 all time right now, he's only 28 and I'd say theres better than 50% chance that he ends up top 5 all time by the time he hangs it up.  His game is STILL improving every single year.  His level of dominance this season reminds me of the dominance Shaq used to display.  When the ball is in his hands, it almost seems like nobody has a chance to stop him.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Kiorrik on February 18, 2013, 09:37:26 PM
Time to get my first Cavs jersey.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Celtics18 on February 18, 2013, 10:13:07 PM
Amazing is the crop of young PGs in this league. CP, DW, Ricky Rubio, Rondo, Rose, Irving, Jennings, Westbrook.  Incredible.

There is a part of me that wonders if the dynamic of having a defensive stopper at PG like AB might be worth more in this era than ever.  If Avery develops his overall game, it will be interesting to see how the C's can use him and Rondo as PG/backup or 1/2 tandem to impact the flow of games against the leagues great PGs.

Very interesting point.  There really are no other defensive stoppers like him at the PG position in the league.

Could be like a Bruce Bowen with a better offensive game.  Or a Ron Artest who doesn't fight fans.

Yeah.  I really look forward to seeing the defensive tandem of Bradley and Rondo in the backcourt together for a full season in the near future.  I think they will be able to do some real damage.  Scary for the opposition; fun to watch for Celtics fans.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: action781 on February 18, 2013, 10:31:34 PM
Amazing is the crop of young PGs in this league. CP, DW, Ricky Rubio, Rondo, Rose, Irving, Jennings, Westbrook.  Incredible.

There is a part of me that wonders if the dynamic of having a defensive stopper at PG like AB might be worth more in this era than ever.  If Avery develops his overall game, it will be interesting to see how the C's can use him and Rondo as PG/backup or 1/2 tandem to impact the flow of games against the leagues great PGs.

Very interesting point.  There really are no other defensive stoppers like him at the PG position in the league.

Could be like a Bruce Bowen with a better offensive game.  Or a Ron Artest who doesn't fight fans.

Yeah.  I really look forward to seeing the defensive tandem of Bradley and Rondo in the backcourt together for a full season in the near future.  I think they will be able to do some real damage.  Scary for the opposition; fun to watch for Celtics fans.

Meh, I'm not a real fan of Rondo's matador defense during the regular season.  I prefer a AB-Lee defensive backcourt.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Celtics18 on February 18, 2013, 10:42:13 PM
Amazing is the crop of young PGs in this league. CP, DW, Ricky Rubio, Rondo, Rose, Irving, Jennings, Westbrook.  Incredible.

There is a part of me that wonders if the dynamic of having a defensive stopper at PG like AB might be worth more in this era than ever.  If Avery develops his overall game, it will be interesting to see how the C's can use him and Rondo as PG/backup or 1/2 tandem to impact the flow of games against the leagues great PGs.

Very interesting point.  There really are no other defensive stoppers like him at the PG position in the league.

Could be like a Bruce Bowen with a better offensive game.  Or a Ron Artest who doesn't fight fans.

Yeah.  I really look forward to seeing the defensive tandem of Bradley and Rondo in the backcourt together for a full season in the near future.  I think they will be able to do some real damage.  Scary for the opposition; fun to watch for Celtics fans.

Meh, I'm not a real fan of Rondo's matador defense during the regular season.  I prefer a AB-Lee defensive backcourt.

No way.  Rondo's an elite off the ball defender in the backcourt, one of the best I've ever seen.  Pair him up with Bradley's on the ball pressure, and those two will wreak havoc.

People seem to forget that Rajon Rondo was known primarily for his defensive disruptiveness for his first three or four years in the league.  Early in his career, folks were saying that his ceiling was as a defensive specialist.  Now that he's an offensive superstar as well, the next step will be to put the two together consistently. 

If his knee fully recovers, I have no doubt that he'll be able to accomplish that feat.  Then he may truly become an MVP candidate.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Edgar on February 19, 2013, 12:01:36 AM
lol..now people will finally realize why crotornats were champs.

kidding kidding..sort of  :P
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: action781 on February 19, 2013, 12:09:53 AM
Amazing is the crop of young PGs in this league. CP, DW, Ricky Rubio, Rondo, Rose, Irving, Jennings, Westbrook.  Incredible.

There is a part of me that wonders if the dynamic of having a defensive stopper at PG like AB might be worth more in this era than ever.  If Avery develops his overall game, it will be interesting to see how the C's can use him and Rondo as PG/backup or 1/2 tandem to impact the flow of games against the leagues great PGs.

Very interesting point.  There really are no other defensive stoppers like him at the PG position in the league.

Could be like a Bruce Bowen with a better offensive game.  Or a Ron Artest who doesn't fight fans.

Yeah.  I really look forward to seeing the defensive tandem of Bradley and Rondo in the backcourt together for a full season in the near future.  I think they will be able to do some real damage.  Scary for the opposition; fun to watch for Celtics fans.

Meh, I'm not a real fan of Rondo's matador defense during the regular season.  I prefer a AB-Lee defensive backcourt.

No way.  Rondo's an elite off the ball defender in the backcourt, one of the best I've ever seen.  Pair him up with Bradley's on the ball pressure, and those two will wreak havoc.

People seem to forget that Rajon Rondo was known primarily for his defensive disruptiveness for his first three or four years in the league.  Early in his career, folks were saying that his ceiling was as a defensive specialist.  Now that he's an offensive superstar as well, the next step will be to put the two together consistently. 

If his knee fully recovers, I have no doubt that he'll be able to accomplish that feat.  Then he may truly become an MVP candidate.

I think they COULD wreak havoc.  But I was responding to someone who mentioned seeing it for a full season.  Judging by what we've seen from Rondo the past two seasons, there is nothing that leads me to think that Rondo would play great defense for a full regular season.  He plays matador defense gambling for steals and particularly back-tips.

In the playoffs, I'd like to see what they can do though as Rondo would step his game up.

But also, if you want Rondo off the ball, that means he's guarding SGs.  Not something he's used to and he's obviously giving up some height doing so.  I think taller SGs like Joe Johnson, Kobe, Paul George,... would give him a lot of difficulty.  Also, guards who run off a lot of screens would be tough for him to guard too as he's shown that's not one of his strong points.
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: Celtics18 on February 19, 2013, 01:21:05 AM
Amazing is the crop of young PGs in this league. CP, DW, Ricky Rubio, Rondo, Rose, Irving, Jennings, Westbrook.  Incredible.

There is a part of me that wonders if the dynamic of having a defensive stopper at PG like AB might be worth more in this era than ever.  If Avery develops his overall game, it will be interesting to see how the C's can use him and Rondo as PG/backup or 1/2 tandem to impact the flow of games against the leagues great PGs.

Very interesting point.  There really are no other defensive stoppers like him at the PG position in the league.

Could be like a Bruce Bowen with a better offensive game.  Or a Ron Artest who doesn't fight fans.

Yeah.  I really look forward to seeing the defensive tandem of Bradley and Rondo in the backcourt together for a full season in the near future.  I think they will be able to do some real damage.  Scary for the opposition; fun to watch for Celtics fans.

Meh, I'm not a real fan of Rondo's matador defense during the regular season.  I prefer a AB-Lee defensive backcourt.

No way.  Rondo's an elite off the ball defender in the backcourt, one of the best I've ever seen.  Pair him up with Bradley's on the ball pressure, and those two will wreak havoc.

People seem to forget that Rajon Rondo was known primarily for his defensive disruptiveness for his first three or four years in the league.  Early in his career, folks were saying that his ceiling was as a defensive specialist.  Now that he's an offensive superstar as well, the next step will be to put the two together consistently. 

If his knee fully recovers, I have no doubt that he'll be able to accomplish that feat.  Then he may truly become an MVP candidate.

I think they COULD wreak havoc.  But I was responding to someone who mentioned seeing it for a full season.  Judging by what we've seen from Rondo the past two seasons, there is nothing that leads me to think that Rondo would play great defense for a full regular season.  He plays matador defense gambling for steals and particularly back-tips.

In the playoffs, I'd like to see what they can do though as Rondo would step his game up.

But also, if you want Rondo off the ball, that means he's guarding SGs.  Not something he's used to and he's obviously giving up some height doing so.  I think taller SGs like Joe Johnson, Kobe, Paul George,... would give him a lot of difficulty.  Also, guards who run off a lot of screens would be tough for him to guard too as he's shown that's not one of his strong points.

Rondo has spent a lot of time guarding two guards over the course of his career, and he's actually shown the ability to be very good guarding bigger guys who try to post him up.  He's very crafty and uses his body well to get guys off-balance.  And, you'd mix it up, depending on match ups. 

Take Indiana, for example.  They start George Hill at the point with George and Lance Stephenson on the wings.  I would have Bradley put pressure on Hill, put Rondo on the weakest offense player--Stephenson--to make him most effective off the ball, and put the small forward--either Pierce or Green--on Paul George. 

Against Brooklyn, I might even put Rondo on Gerald Wallace and have Green guarding Johnson for significant stretches with Bradley against Williams. 

We've never actually seen a Rondo/Bradley backcourt play together for a full season.  I'm not saying that going with that small backcourt doesn't have it's risks, but, I really want to see it.  They've shown it in stretches, but I think that over an extended period of time, they could be really nasty. 
Title: Re: Wow. I didn't realize Kyrie Irving was incredible.
Post by: TripleOT on February 19, 2013, 07:48:47 PM
If I were starting an NBA team today, Irving would be one of the top 3 players I'd want (LeBron, Durant).