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Celtics Basketball => Game Threads => Topic started by: FLCeltsFan on December 20, 2011, 10:31:04 AM

Title: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: FLCeltsFan on December 20, 2011, 10:31:04 AM
Toronto Raptors (0‐1) at Boston Celtics (1‐0)
Preseason Game #2 – Home Game #1
Wednesday, December 21, 2011
7:30 PM ET
TV: CSNNE
Radio: WEEI (850AM)
TD Garden  

(http://www.hockeepuck.com/images/arenas/tdbank.jpg)

(http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba/boston/00-Celticslogos.gif)
Probable Starters
(http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Rondo_Rajon_bos.jpg) (http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Allen_Ray_bos.jpg) (http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Daniels_Marquis_ind.jpg) (http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Garnett_Kevin_bos.jpg) (http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/ONeal_Jermaine_mia.jpg)
PG:  Rajon Rondo
SG: Ray Allen
SF:  Marquis Daniels  
PF:  Kevin Garnett
C:   Jermaine O'Neal

Celtics Reserves
Avery Bradley
Chris Wilcox
Brandon Bass
Keyon Dooling
E'twaun Moore
Greg Stiemsma
JaJuan Johnson
Gilbert Brown
Michael Sweetney
Sasha Pavlovic
Jamaal Sampson

Injuries
Paul Pierce  (heel)  day to day
Sasha Pavlovic (wrist) day to day

(http://www.insidearenas.com/eastern/pictures/tdbank2011.jpg)

(http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba/toronto/00-Raptorslogos.gif)
Probable Starters
(http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Calderon_Jose_tor.jpg) (http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/DeRozan_DeMar_ncaa.jpg) (http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Johnson_James_ncaa.jpg) (http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bargnani_Andrea_tor.jpg) (http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Magloire_Jamaal_mia.jpg)
PG: Jose Calderon
SG:  DeMar DeRozan
SF:  James Johnson
PF:   Andrea Bargnani
C:   Jamaal Magloire

Raptors Reserves

Solomon Alabi
Jerryd Bayless
Rasual Butler
Anthony Carter
Ed Davis
Gary Forbes
Aaron Gray
Amir Johnson
Linas Kleiza

Injuries
None

Team Connections

Rajon Rondo, Raptors Head Coach Dwane Casey and Jamaal Magloire all attended the University of
Kentucky
Jermaine O’Neal played in Toronto during the 2008‐09 season
Linas Kleiza and Keyon Dooling both went to the University of Missouri
Keyon Dooling and Rasual Butler were teammates on the Miami Heat during the 2004‐05 season
Rasual Butler and Brandon Bass were teammates in New Orleans from 2005‐07
Brandon Bass and Jamaal Magloire were teammates in Dallas during the 2007‐08 season.

Game Notes

Unless Paul Pierce's heel injury is more serious than the team is saying, I expect Paul Pierce to play in this game.  I would think that Doc would like to get his starting 5 at least a few minutes playing together before the first game of the season.  However, the game notes have Quisy in the starting lineup again so I've put him there.  I'll change it if I hear anything different.  

We will probably see plenty of the young guys again as Doc will have to depend on his bench a lot this season to avoid burning out the starters and he needs to get them some experience.   Doc may try to play the guys with training camp contracts like Stiemsma, Sweetney, Brown, and Sampson in order to give them some playing time as well as to evaluate them.  Of the 4,  I see Stiemsma having the best chance of sticking, although both Danny and Doc are high on Brown.  

The Raptors will more than likely play their starters and regular rotation once again.  Doc has said that he isn't concerned about winning the preseason games and he showed that in the first game by playing the young guys down the stretch.   Hopefully the Celtics will get the win, even with heavy minutes by the younger guys, and go into the season on a winning streak.  

Keys to the Game

Improve conditioning
Improve chemistry
Don't get injured
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Celtics18 on December 21, 2011, 10:19:24 AM
Thanks FL,

Another game thread, another tommy point.

My biggest wish is to see lots of JJ and lots of Avery Bradley.  And, of course, even though it's a preseason game, to get a win. 
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: TA9 on December 21, 2011, 10:34:41 AM
Hope he doesnt play the starters more than 15-18 mins today!
I would like to see our bench play the majority of the game :D
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: ACF on December 21, 2011, 10:42:48 AM
TP. Go Celtics!
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Evantime34 on December 21, 2011, 10:47:18 AM
Hope he doesnt play the starters more than 15-18 mins today!
I would like to see our bench play the majority of the game :D
I agree, I can't wait for JJ to play a ton score 20 and then have everyone gush over how he is the next KG. That is just the thing we need to kick the preseason Pierce is hurt depression that is permeating this blog.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Surferdad on December 21, 2011, 03:47:55 PM
Unlike a few posters here, I don't really care about the win, except they should not lose to a bunch of chumps like the Raptors.

I really hope Doc doesn't play guys they intend to cut.  Sometimes coaches do that as a favor to them so give them exposure for their next job.

Go E'Twan and JJJ!
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: jgod213 on December 21, 2011, 03:57:02 PM
Yeah it's all about the boilermakers tonight.

I didnt get to watch a ton of the game up in toronto, so i'll be very interested to see if e'tuwan can carve out a role for himself by continuing to showcase a terrific pace control.

Since Doc seems to be warming quickly, i'll also keep an eye on keyon dooling. i was verrrrry dissapointed to know that delonte wouldn't be back and still havent warmed up to dooling quite yet.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Snakehead on December 21, 2011, 04:08:25 PM

Since Doc seems to be warming quickly, i'll also keep an eye on keyon dooling. i was verrrrry dissapointed to know that delonte wouldn't be back and still havent warmed up to dooling quite yet.

Yeah I wanted Delonte back too but that Herald article has me excited, especially the part about Dooling really making an effort to challenge Rondo.  That can only be a good thing.



I am with everyone else in saying play the young guys.  So true that one good game from JJJ would result in the similar sort of swooning that occured over Moore when he hit two long jump shots the last game.  But I really do hope JJJ gets quality time, he didn't get much in the last game and I'm sure its tough to want to make an impact and prove yourself but get so little time.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: slamtheking on December 21, 2011, 04:37:57 PM
TP FL. missed these threads.

hope to see some real minutes for the bench and youngsters tonight.  Would really like to see more of Moore and at least some real minutes for JJJ
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: thenotoriousjts on December 21, 2011, 04:51:55 PM
Two games against Toronto in a row, we're pretty much rivals now, right?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on December 21, 2011, 05:26:56 PM
TY kindly!
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: barefacedmonk on December 21, 2011, 05:34:27 PM
TP. Go Celtics!

Ditto.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: clover on December 21, 2011, 06:11:32 PM
“You can see, pretty much, there will be a couple of positions that will still be at play,” said Rivers. “For the most part there’s eight [players], without me saying them, that you know they’re going to play. Then there’s two where guys are going to have to fight for spots.”

I take this to be Doc's respecting Sasha as a veteran to suggest he's in the running for Pierce's first backup, though we know Daniels has that spot.

http://www.nba.com/celtics/game_preview/122111-raptors-celtics.html

Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: CelticSooner on December 21, 2011, 07:29:54 PM
My Just game thread of the season.  :)
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: CelticSooner on December 21, 2011, 07:32:08 PM
What do you guys make of what Donnie Marshall said about Rondo still being on the chopping block? Potentially traded out west.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 07:45:03 PM
I like Pavlovic. I think he will play a much better role on this team this year.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 07:46:41 PM
JO and KG with some suffocating defense under the basket. I love it.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 07:49:15 PM
This defense? Wow people. Wow.

Anyone not watching is missing a show....even if it is just Toronto.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: cman88 on December 21, 2011, 07:49:58 PM
JO looks great out there defensively...if he can stay relatively healthy this year and play like that, it could be big.

Rondo hitting both his jumpers so far too!!
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hwangjini_1 on December 21, 2011, 07:51:10 PM
is there any way to watch the game on line?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: CelticSooner on December 21, 2011, 07:51:14 PM
JO os locking down the paint. Rondo knocking down jumpers. His shot looks more smooth this season.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 07:51:34 PM
now this is that Celtics defense all on a string suffocating grimy I'm loving it....

I feel like we should be up more but this is still good to see
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 07:58:05 PM
Who else cringed when they saw JO go in to take that charge.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: RajonRondOWNED on December 21, 2011, 07:59:53 PM
Rondo is just knocking these jumpers down. His form actually looks pretty good.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Change on December 21, 2011, 08:01:43 PM
Rondo hitting shots in pre-season means he'll miss them in regular season.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: houseonfire09 on December 21, 2011, 08:01:48 PM
JO actually looks like he's healthy for the first time in a couple of seasons, and I can already tell that Bass is an upgrade over BBD.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: CelticSooner on December 21, 2011, 08:02:10 PM
Rondo is just knocking these jumpers down. His form actually looks pretty good.

Yea. Nice stroke and isn't looking like a shot put like previously.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: PosImpos on December 21, 2011, 08:02:45 PM
Rondo hitting jumpers like it's no big thang and JO looking almost, dare i say, spry.

let's see how long this lasts.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Roy H. on December 21, 2011, 08:02:54 PM
Bass seems so much less frustrating than Baby.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: CelticSooner on December 21, 2011, 08:03:50 PM
JO actually looks like he's healthy for the first time in a couple of seasons, and I can already tell that Bass is an upgrade over BBD.

Why because he didn't get stuffed going to the rim?  :D
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: RajonRondOWNED on December 21, 2011, 08:04:15 PM
Bass seems so much less frustrating than Baby.

I will miss Davis' whiney look on his face when he has no idea why he had a foul called on him.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: RajonRondOWNED on December 21, 2011, 08:06:05 PM
I really don't want Bradley taking shots. Ever.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 08:06:16 PM
awful foul call on Bass
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Redz on December 21, 2011, 08:06:28 PM
Bass seems so much less frustrating than Baby.

I will miss Davis' whiney look on his face when he has no idea why he had a foul called on him.

Bass has always impressed me as a guy who doesn't do a whole lot wrong (as he picks up an offensive while I type  ;D _
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 08:07:08 PM
Calderon snatching rebounds from Wilcox?

Why are our big men on the perimeter? dont pick and pop roll to the basket
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Change on December 21, 2011, 08:08:42 PM
I really don't want Bradley taking shots. Ever.

It wouldn't surprise me if he gets traded in season.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 08:11:53 PM
I really don't want Bradley taking shots. Ever.

It wouldn't surprise me if he gets traded in season.
Agreed not  only his shooting his defense isn't all that great like some say either
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: snively on December 21, 2011, 08:11:53 PM
I really don't want Bradley taking shots. Ever.

It wouldn't surprise me if he gets traded in season.

If he doesn't start hitting open Js, no one will want him.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Roy H. on December 21, 2011, 08:14:38 PM
The Celts seem to be trying to establish KG down low more.  I hope that carries over into the season.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 08:14:54 PM
That Steisma hook was Joakim ugly rofl
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 08:16:25 PM
Bradley looks like he has zero confidence at all on offense.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 08:17:24 PM
Why is Bradley our go to guy when KG/Quis/ Dooling etc are on the floor?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: CelticSooner on December 21, 2011, 08:18:17 PM
Bradley is playing himself into a permanent seat on the bench.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 08:19:02 PM
Bradley is just awful anybody think we're getting a last look before he's shipped out ?  :-X
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: PosImpos on December 21, 2011, 08:19:53 PM
Avery Bradley

-- very solid NBA level defender. better defender than most starters at either guard position.

-- omg awful on the other end of the floor, complete liability.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: snively on December 21, 2011, 08:20:07 PM
Bradley looks like he has zero confidence at all on offense.

He's plenty confident.  Just not accurate!  I'm sure the C's will be patient with his shot though.  He has very little trade value: much better to stay the course.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Larry for 3 on December 21, 2011, 08:20:41 PM
Bradley is playing himself into a permanent seat on the bench.

exactly,  I predict he'll be out of the league in 2 years if he doesn't improve quick, I hope he has his passport up to date, I hear Finland is a great place to play basketball
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: PosImpos on December 21, 2011, 08:21:03 PM
That lineup out there will be good defensively against anybody, but they'll struggle to score against anybody.  Anybody.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Change on December 21, 2011, 08:21:43 PM
I see JR Giddens when i watch Avery Bradley. I hope he is not a bust.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 08:22:16 PM
Steizsma doing his best Perk impression with the moving pick
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: barefacedmonk on December 21, 2011, 08:25:00 PM
NBA TV isn't covering this...I'm stuck with Heat vs Magic. :(

Orlando looks terrible, btw. The halftime score does not fully reflect how bad they are.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hwangjini_1 on December 21, 2011, 08:25:34 PM
let me take an unpopular view.

i like bradley so far in this game. yes, none of his shots have gone in, but he shoots with confidence and is not hesitant. he proved in college he can make shots, i think the shots will fall if he keeps shooting.

i did not like his first short or two. they were rushed. but after that a good shoot selection.

next, his man to man defense is good, but most of all i saw him play good team defense.

lots of hustle.

i was about to give up on him, but now i want to see if he can develop.

by the way, dooling plays good defense and really hustles. good pick up.

ok, back to the game.  :)
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 08:25:35 PM
Bradley is playing himself into a permanent seat on the bench.

exactly,  I predict he'll be out of the league in 2 years if he doesn't improve quick, I hope he has his passport up to date, I hear Finland is a great place to play basketball

Someone who can lockdown on defense will always have a job in this league.

Let's also consider that he is 21 years old.

Ridiculous statement, to think he will be out of the league in 2 years. Absolutely ridiculous. People do realize there are two portions of the game right? Keeping points off the board is just as important as scoring, even if it isn't as glamorous.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: CelticSooner on December 21, 2011, 08:25:49 PM
NBA TV isn't covering this...I'm stuck with Heat vs Magic. :(

Orlando looks terrible, btw. The halftime score does not fully reflect how bad they are.

How does the infant look?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: snively on December 21, 2011, 08:27:05 PM
Raptors have hit maybe 2 jumpers so far.  At least they have their defense.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Lord of Mikawa on December 21, 2011, 08:28:42 PM
NBA TV isn't covering this...I'm stuck with Heat vs Magic. :(

Orlando looks terrible, btw. The halftime score does not fully reflect how bad they are.
I cut that garbage off and found a stream of this game. I couldn't bare anymore. Also if this is how the Magic are going to be this year, they won't make the playoffs.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: barefacedmonk on December 21, 2011, 08:29:41 PM
NBA TV isn't covering this...I'm stuck with Heat vs Magic. :(

Orlando looks terrible, btw. The halftime score does not fully reflect how bad they are.

How does the infant look?

A little better than his first game. I have a feeling Orlando fans will hate him with a passion in 2-3 months.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Drucci on December 21, 2011, 08:30:22 PM
Bradley's shot has been totally off but what I like about him is that he is shooting with a LOT of confidence. Nothing like last year, you can definitely tell the difference. Of course it doesn't matter if he is shooting with confidence if he doesn't make them but... it will come.

As fas ar his defense... it's really impressive.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: barefacedmonk on December 21, 2011, 08:31:20 PM
Was Sasha in the starting lineup tonight? How did he look?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: RajonRondOWNED on December 21, 2011, 08:32:10 PM
The Cleveland Steismaaaaaaaaa
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: celticinorlando on December 21, 2011, 08:32:46 PM
steisma will make this team
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 08:33:10 PM
The Steimsma show.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: CelticSooner on December 21, 2011, 08:33:34 PM
Wow

Big guy looks good so far
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Change on December 21, 2011, 08:33:52 PM
Bass being exposed defensively. He sat on the bench for this reason.

Greg Stiemsma remember the name.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hwangjini_1 on December 21, 2011, 08:34:16 PM
and steisma will lead us to the promised land.  ;D
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 08:34:32 PM
I like this Steisma kid a lot better than Semih
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: snively on December 21, 2011, 08:34:55 PM
Stiemsma getting a lot of run.  This year's Semih?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: greensquirrel on December 21, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
Let's sign Steisma and trade him for Erden.   ;D
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: PosImpos on December 21, 2011, 08:36:06 PM
Stiemsma doesn't get hot, he just gets steamy!
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 08:36:51 PM
Stiemsma getting a lot of run.  This year's Semih?

hopefully he doesn't have to start for us like Semih did.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 08:37:50 PM
Nice quick 6-0 run to allow them back in it.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 08:38:36 PM
wow, nice steal in the passing lane by Bass
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: fairweatherfan on December 21, 2011, 08:39:11 PM
Just remembered League Pass was on a free preview...hearing Mike and Tommy's voices again makes me very happy.

Also looks like we're doing pretty well. 
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 08:39:26 PM
So looks like nothing's changed and well run Ray to the ground again this year
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: barefacedmonk on December 21, 2011, 08:39:55 PM
Bass needs to learn how to play with Rondo. He missed a few passes in the last game as well.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Larry for 3 on December 21, 2011, 08:40:03 PM
Bradley is playing himself into a permanent seat on the bench.

exactly,  I predict he'll be out of the league in 2 years if he doesn't improve quick, I hope he has his passport up to date, I hear Finland is a great place to play basketball

Someone who can lockdown on defense will always have a job in this league.

Let's also consider that he is 21 years old.

Ridiculous statement, to think he will be out of the league in 2 years. Absolutely ridiculous. People do realize there are two portions of the game right? Keeping points off the board is just as important as scoring, even if it isn't as glamorous.

Keith Bogans is out of a job now and he's the same type of player, only better, if Bradley doesn't develop a shot, then he'll be gone or no bettr than a 10th man--  he might bounce around for a couple of years but he won't last long. Even defensive guys like Bruce Bowen could still stick  threes,  Bradley has zero offensive game, how long do you give him?  5 years? 3 Years?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Change on December 21, 2011, 08:40:12 PM
Second unit not boxing out.  >:(
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: snively on December 21, 2011, 08:41:53 PM
Gotta love Rondo arguing for 3 free throws. 
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: cman88 on December 21, 2011, 08:42:31 PM
So looks like nothing's changed and well run Ray to the ground again this year

time to give Et Moore a shot...he has to be better than bradley
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 08:43:25 PM
Bradley is playing himself into a permanent seat on the bench.

exactly,  I predict he'll be out of the league in 2 years if he doesn't improve quick, I hope he has his passport up to date, I hear Finland is a great place to play basketball

Someone who can lockdown on defense will always have a job in this league.

Let's also consider that he is 21 years old.

Ridiculous statement, to think he will be out of the league in 2 years. Absolutely ridiculous. People do realize there are two portions of the game right? Keeping points off the board is just as important as scoring, even if it isn't as glamorous.

Keith Bogans is out of a job now and he's the same type of player, only better, if Bradley doesn't develop a shot, then he'll be gone or no bettr than a 10th man--  he might bounce around for a couple of years but he won't last long. Even defensive guys like Bruce Bowen could still stick  threes,  Bradley has zero offensive game, how long do you give him?  5 years? 3 Years?

Keith Bogans is also 31.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hwangjini_1 on December 21, 2011, 08:44:18 PM
so far...bass looks good. i think he will add another dimension to the celtics offense with his ability to score both under the basket and with the jumper. he will be free for lots of shots when other teams focus on the 3 three.

all he needs now is to learn just how creative a passer rondo is.  :)
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Larry for 3 on December 21, 2011, 08:54:06 PM
Bradley is playing himself into a permanent seat on the bench.

exactly,  I predict he'll be out of the league in 2 years if he doesn't improve quick, I hope he has his passport up to date, I hear Finland is a great place to play basketball

Someone who can lockdown on defense will always have a job in this league.

Let's also consider that he is 21 years old.

Ridiculous statement, to think he will be out of the league in 2 years. Absolutely ridiculous. People do realize there are two portions of the game right? Keeping points off the board is just as important as scoring, even if it isn't as glamorous.

Keith Bogans is out of a job now and he's the same type of player, only better, if Bradley doesn't develop a shot, then he'll be gone or no bettr than a 10th man--  he might bounce around for a couple of years but he won't last long. Even defensive guys like Bruce Bowen could still stick  threes,  Bradley has zero offensive game, how long do you give him?  5 years? 3 Years?

Keith Bogans is also 31.

If Bradley doesn't get a shot, E'twan Moore will get more playing time come later in the season,  least he can shoot
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 21, 2011, 09:02:30 PM
Stiemsma looks like he can make the team.  He already looks to be Semi's equal on D from what I saw last game.  Tonight, he also showed some offensive skills.   Granted it is exhibition and the Raptors but it was a nice pleasant surprise.

Sasha needs to go.  He can't shoot that well, isn't much a defensive threat or an athlete.  That dunk play he had was not bad but he had 3-4 clunker shots to offset that.  I think Keith Bogans could give us more than Sasha at this point.  Dude even started and could not produce.  I would rather have Gary Forbes or Dante Cunningham than him at this point.

Bradley is not much of a shooter.  I doubt he ever pans out.  He did have a nice steal but let's see Moore and Dooling as a combo and sit down Avery.  If we are shopping him he is losing value.

Bass was decent offensively but got ate alive by  Bargani.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: greensquirrel on December 21, 2011, 09:03:02 PM
It looks like Rondo has reevaluated his pass first attitude after all the trade talk.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: dtrader on December 21, 2011, 09:08:34 PM
It looks like Rondo has reevaluated his pass first attitude after all the trade talk.

Rondo looks exactly he same.  JO looks very good though. Running and jumping like he's at 100%.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hwangjini_1 on December 21, 2011, 09:16:43 PM
geez, this game is awful basketball right now.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 09:18:00 PM
It looks like Rondo has reevaluated his pass first attitude after all the trade talk.

Rondo looks exactly he same.  JO looks very good though. Running and jumping like he's at 100%.
He departed to te locker room hopefully not injured
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: PosImpos on December 21, 2011, 09:21:22 PM
Where the heck is JaJuan Johnson?

Stiemsma plays a huge chunk of the first half, Wilcox and Bass look okay at best, and JJJ can't even find the floor?  Doesn't bode well for him.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 09:22:38 PM
Where the heck is JaJuan Johnson?

Stiemsma plays a huge chunk of the first half, Wilcox and Bass look okay at best, and JJJ can't even find the floor?  Doesn't bode well for him.

I think it's because they know they are keeping JJJ, but they want to see how Stiemsma looks to evaluate him a bit more.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: dtrader on December 21, 2011, 09:23:00 PM
It looks like Rondo has reevaluated his pass first attitude after all the trade talk.

Rondo looks exactly he same.  JO looks very good though. Running and jumping like he's at 100%.
He departed to te locker room hopefully not injured

Hopefully not. I didnt see anything while he was in.  I dont know if we can have a "2nd team".  I think we'll need to play bench mixed with starters.  All bench lineups are struggling a lot to find heir offense.  Moore looks good on defense though as well as offense.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: PosImpos on December 21, 2011, 09:23:52 PM
Quote
CelticsHub celticshub
With only 52 points scored halfway through 3rd qtr against the "feisty" Toronto D, safe to say C's O will be tough to watch without Pierce.

yeah . . . glad to see the Celtics offense hasn't changed.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: snively on December 21, 2011, 09:24:34 PM
Refs having a field day.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 09:24:34 PM
[dang], Toronto has a lot of size.

3, 7'0" footers, 7 players over 6'9" and a 6'8" solid player in Kleiza
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: PosImpos on December 21, 2011, 09:25:03 PM
Where the heck is JaJuan Johnson?

Stiemsma plays a huge chunk of the first half, Wilcox and Bass look okay at best, and JJJ can't even find the floor?  Doesn't bode well for him.

I think it's because they know they are keeping JJJ, but they want to see how Stiemsma looks to evaluate him a bit more.

perhaps, but at the least it means talk of JJJ making it into the rotation is probably going to remain as just that -- talk.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 09:25:51 PM
ET for three!
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: dtrader on December 21, 2011, 09:27:50 PM
Dooling and Moore work well together on defense. 
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Change on December 21, 2011, 09:28:33 PM
Big Baby looks happy in Orlando. He's ballin tonight leading the comeback.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 09:30:29 PM
Big Baby looks happy in Orlando. He's ballin tonight leading the comeback.

and we are happy here without him, so all is good!
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Surferdad on December 21, 2011, 09:32:08 PM
Nice move and shot by Moore to end the quarter.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hwangjini_1 on December 21, 2011, 09:33:02 PM
moore had a heck of a quarter. he showed he can shoot from far away and driving to the basket.

good defense.

he is a smart player and i am glad ainge drafted him.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 09:33:03 PM
Moore is For real
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Change on December 21, 2011, 09:34:01 PM
its safe to say E'twaun will be ahead of Avery on depth chart.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: snively on December 21, 2011, 09:34:21 PM
E'twaun with the quickness off the drive and the sweet step-back. 
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: dtrader on December 21, 2011, 09:34:47 PM
Outside of Ray, Moore looks like our most skilled guard on offense.  Im looking forward to seeing him play against a legit defense, but he's shown range, midrange, a floater, and penetration.

Lets see some JJJ!
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Lord of Mikawa on December 21, 2011, 09:36:29 PM
Gotta love the refs. Good to hear Mike and Tommy for the first time in a long time.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: cman88 on December 21, 2011, 09:38:33 PM
what a nice shot by moore. I think hes definitely earned the backup 2 spot over bradley. such better offense/decision making
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 09:39:25 PM
This time the 2nd unit did what they needed to do.

Against many of Toronto's key players.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Change on December 21, 2011, 09:42:35 PM
Anyone noticing the chemistry between E'Twaun & Avery? they compliment each other's skillset.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: RajonRondOWNED on December 21, 2011, 09:42:38 PM
I want to see a Rondo Moore backcourt a bit this year.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 09:43:51 PM
Anyone noticing the chemistry between E'Twaun & Avery? they compliment each other's skillset.

Bradley has a skillset?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: dtrader on December 21, 2011, 09:44:41 PM
Stiemsma and Moore have been really impressive.  Moore looks polished on offense, with solid defense, and Stiemsma is a long hustle/toughness guy that looks willing to take babys spot as designated charge taker.

I have NOT noticed any bradley/moore chemistry lol.  Basically Bradley jus gives the ball to whoever he's closest to as soon as he crosses half court.  On defense, theyve both been solid.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: RajonRondOWNED on December 21, 2011, 09:45:57 PM
I feel back for JJJ. I feel like he is just having a bad couple of games. His shots look go they just don't drop.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: IsItTheShoes on December 21, 2011, 09:48:30 PM
Nice haircut that James Johnson guy has. He looks like a freaking cassowary or something
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: barefacedmonk on December 21, 2011, 09:52:16 PM
Sweetney needs to lose weight...and not just for basketball. That much weight is unhealthy.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Change on December 21, 2011, 09:52:34 PM
I feel back for JJJ. I feel like he is just having a bad couple of games. His shots look go they just don't drop.

he needs to continue shooting. JJ is pick and pop player
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: celticslove on December 21, 2011, 09:53:21 PM
looks like Sweetney took over BBD's locker. ;D
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: RajonRondOWNED on December 21, 2011, 09:55:14 PM
I remember when the Knicks drafted Sweetney. I was "Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline."ing all over that.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 09:55:29 PM
looks like Sweetney took over BBD's locker. ;D

LOL, yea, and his stash of food
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: snively on December 21, 2011, 09:56:01 PM
What the heck happened to Gary Tanguay?  He looks like Sweetney.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 09:56:16 PM
rofl @ Sweetney
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Larry for 3 on December 21, 2011, 09:56:58 PM
What size do you figure Sweetney's shorts are?  XXXXXL ? bigger ?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 09:57:07 PM
What the heck happened to Gary Tanguay?  He looks like Sweetney.

the lockout was tough on everyone
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: dtrader on December 21, 2011, 09:57:53 PM
If Bargnani can manhandle JJJ that easily, I can't see him getting much play time at all.  Honestly, it looks like Moore was the 1st rounder so far.

If Bradley had Moores size, I think he'd be a legitimate NBA player.  As it is, I think he's like the "Rudy" of the team.  He tries real hard, and that pays off against people who underestimate him, but it's not going to be enough to consistently beat top competition
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: bruinsandceltics on December 21, 2011, 09:57:58 PM
It's too bad Sweetney couldn't give some of his weight to JaJaun.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: syfy9 on December 21, 2011, 09:58:25 PM
ROOOOOOOOONNNNDDDDDOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's taking/making a good number of jump shots, It looks more improved(not great, but almost average!). I am jumping for joy because of this. I really hope he's like this (competent scorer) for the season.


Stiemsma looks pretty good as well.

I am very suprised by how Moore looks. A lot to be desired from JJJ. Bass is spot on, very good pick up by Ainge.

I'm very happy to be a Celtics fan right now, just bought league pass and I'm ready to enjoy this season!
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 09:58:52 PM
Bradley just doesn't look like a basketball player. He looks like that really athletic kid from the track team that was added to the basketball team in high school to round out the roster.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Lord of Mikawa on December 21, 2011, 09:59:19 PM
Lol I thought ya'll were crazy when you said Sweetney was overweight. Good grief how is this man a NBA player?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 10:00:18 PM
Lol I thought ya'll were crazy when you said Sweetney was overweight. Good grief how is this man a NBA player?

How does he even get a camp invite? Are you telling me they can't really find any other deserving young big men that are interested?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: RajonRondOWNED on December 21, 2011, 10:00:57 PM
Tommy needs to get off Avery's nuts. His D does not make me appreciate his horrible horrible offense. At least Tony Allen could finish at the basket and slash.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: j804 on December 21, 2011, 10:02:04 PM
I cringe every time AB shoots
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: dtrader on December 21, 2011, 10:02:13 PM
ROOOOOOOOONNNNDDDDDOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's taking/making a good number of jump shots, It looks more improved(not great, but almost average!). I am jumping for joy because of this. I really hope he's like this (competent scorer) for the season.


Stiemsma looks pretty good as well.

I am very suprised by how Moore looks. A lot to be desired from JJJ. Bass is spot on, very good pick up by Ainge.

I'm very happy to be a Celtics fan right now, just bought league pass and I'm ready to enjoy this season!

lol. U sure you weren't watching Moore shoot?  I havent seen Rondo in here for a while.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 10:03:22 PM
maybe the celtics should just sign Sweetney and put him on a diet. The guy was cut last year during training camp when he was too fat, and he just gained even more weight and came back this year. If they cut him again he might eat himself to death.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Lord of Mikawa on December 21, 2011, 10:03:30 PM
Lol I thought ya'll were crazy when you said Sweetney was overweight. Good grief how is this man a NBA player?

How does he even get a camp invite? Are you telling me they can't really find any other deserving young big men that are interested?
Good players for cheap must be hard to come by.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on December 21, 2011, 10:05:40 PM
i have seen horrible players on O but AB has to be high on the list!!
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 10:06:17 PM
Glen Davis leading the magic to victory tonight
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hwangjini_1 on December 21, 2011, 10:08:11 PM
Lol I thought ya'll were crazy when you said Sweetney was overweight. Good grief how is this man a NBA player?

How does he even get a camp invite? Are you telling me they can't really find any other deserving young big men that are interested?

because he is talented and a smart player. before he ate himself out of the league he was scoring 8 points and getting 5 rebounds in 19 minutes. not bad.

for his own sake, he does need to lose 80 pounds or so. if he did, he would be a good nba player.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: GronkSpike on December 21, 2011, 10:09:29 PM
Bradley was 1-10...  ::) That is just terrible
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 10:10:12 PM
Lol I thought ya'll were crazy when you said Sweetney was overweight. Good grief how is this man a NBA player?

How does he even get a camp invite? Are you telling me they can't really find any other deserving young big men that are interested?

because he is talented and a smart player. before he ate himself out of the league he was scoring 8 points and getting 5 rebounds in 19 minutes. not bad.

for his own sake, he does need to lose 80 pounds or so. if he did, he would be a good nba player.


I know he's talented, but it's clear the day he shows up if not before that he won't make the team. They could invite a younger more in shape big man who is more of an unknown who might have some chance of cracking the roster.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 21, 2011, 10:10:51 PM
Quote
If they cut him again he might eat himself to death.

While I would hate to see the young man die, it is not on us.

I still think Sasha stinks and back up SF might be our biggest hole though.  I think Moore might be better offensively than Bradley but Avery played solid D.   That one for ten was bad shooting.

I liked the drive by Gilbert at the end when he tried to yoke it.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: hpantazo on December 21, 2011, 10:12:42 PM
Quote
If they cut him again he might eat himself to death.

While I would hate to see the young man die, it is not on us.

I still think Sasha stinks and back up SF might be our biggest hole though.  I think Moore might be better offensively than Bradley but Avery played solid D.   That one for ten was bad shooting.

I liked the drive by Gilbert at the end when he tried to yoke it.

I think the cuts will be Sweetney and Brown. I think Stiemsma makes the team.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Neurotic Guy on December 21, 2011, 10:13:54 PM
Do you think Sweetney could rush a passer?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: dtrader on December 21, 2011, 10:21:45 PM
Bradley was 1-10...  ::) That is just terrible

Yup.  And it's not a situation, where he did so much other stuff, that it was ok....It really was that bad. 

Even for the people who think he has potential, I dont see any reason for keeping him on THIS team.  Moore is a year less seasoned than Bradley, but already looks far more comfortable and competent on offense.  Bradleys supporters always point to his defense as a reason to be optimistic with him, but Moore has shown good defense as well.  We dont have minutes to give both.  I jus dont think it helps he team any to keep giving Bradley time.

If you want a steady hand to back up Rondo...we have Dooling. If you want to groom a guard for the future...Moore looks to have more potential.  The whole talk before the preseason, was to play Bradley at the 2, and tha is absolutely NOT possible. He is horrible on offense, and doesnt have the size that Moore does, to guard the 2.
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: Surferdad on December 21, 2011, 10:29:31 PM
Anyone else think Moore looks like Kanye West?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: riffic92 on December 21, 2011, 10:46:35 PM
Bradley was 1-10...  ::) That is just terrible

he also played phenomenal defense. which was just phenomenal.

you guys really think Bradley shouldn't get any more chances because he couldn't get his shot going in a preseason game? dude shot 45% (37% from 3) in the D-League, it's not like the guy is a consistent 10% shooter. plus, it's the preseason! you really think his role in the meaningful games will even allow him to take 10 shots?

the tools he has on defense are unbelievable, every shot his man put up was contested and the steals he had were Rondo-esque. say what you will about his offense but he has All-NBA potential on the defensive end, which is very hard to come by

I'm new to this board and the knee jerks reactions in this thread are hysterical. are the Bradley haters/Moore enthusiasts conveniently forgetting Moore's horrendous decision making down the stretch? why isn't he cut yet?!!?
Title: Re: Raptors (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) 12/21
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on December 21, 2011, 10:58:09 PM
Bradley was 1-10...  ::) That is just terrible

he also played phenomenal defense. which was just phenomenal.

you guys really think Bradley shouldn't get any more chances because he couldn't get his shot going in a preseason game? dude shot 45% (37% from 3) in the D-League, it's not like the guy is a consistent 10% shooter. plus, it's the preseason! you really think his role in the meaningful games will even allow him to take 10 shots?

the tools he has on defense are unbelievable, every shot his man put up was contested and the steals he had were Rondo-esque. say what you will about his offense but he has All-NBA potential on the defensive end, which is very hard to come by

I'm new to this board and the knee jerks reactions in this thread are hysterical. are the Bradley haters/Moore enthusiasts conveniently forgetting Moore's horrendous decision making down the stretch? why isn't he cut yet?!!?

I don't get this mentality, just because we have seen absolute zero from bradley on offense and we express our dissatisfaction we are somehow haters? EVERYONE can clearly see (as stated many times by mostly everyone) that AB is good on D (can probably become great) but you can't keep acting like this is Bradley's only time looking lost on offense! I'll never count any player out on my team, doesn't mean I'll keep blaming age and wrong position for their lack of production! He had 1 good game (maybe 1-2 others I don't remember) on O which was against the bench of NYK last season! I agree he doesn't have to be good on offense b/c he is really good on D (and he plays with other people right now who are great on O) but he can't be terrible either!