CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics History => Topic started by: Celticsfan336 on April 27, 2011, 10:30:29 PM
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http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_bianchi/2011/04/dwight-howard-is-a-greater-defensive-force-than-celtics-legend-bill-russell.html
courtesy of Redsarmy.com
I think it blasphemy!!!!! I obviously have never seen Russell, but if they had the DPOY award when he played, he woulda won unamousely every yaer of his career
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http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_bianchi/2011/04/dwight-howard-is-a-greater-defensive-force-than-celtics-legend-bill-russell.html
courtesy of Redsarmy.com
I think it blasphemy!!!!! I obviously have never seen Russell, but if they had the DPOY award when he played, he woulda won unamousely every yaer of his career
Oh CeltsFan, you my dear just might have given me the inspiration for the best frontpage article ever. I'm 400 comments. You got the over, or the under?
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One key difference
As every season passes and every Howard blocked shot is rejected into the stands, the more I believe this bold statement made last season by Orlando Magic TV commentator Matt Guokas.
Russell was legendary for directing his blocks to outlets.
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This guy really hinges on what Matt Goukas says, huh? ::)
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Why do people make bold claims? For attention. Looks like this idiot is going to get some from Celtics fans, unfortunately.
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I think ORL's minds should be on ATL right now...
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It amazes me how some people can write about basketball and be such blatant homers, or simply not know anything about the game.
I stopped reading after the first sentence, literally.
Does this guy really believe what he is writing.
Dwight is a great defensive player, but probably isn't in the top 5 defensive bigs in the last 20 years.
KG, Hakeem and Duncan are light years ahead of him IMHO. Then there is Mutombo and Ben Wallace who I'd put ahead of him still. I'm sure if I delve deeper I can probably find others.
Nobody is in the discussion of Bill Russell, however.
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One key difference
As every season passes and every Howard blocked shot is rejected into the stands, the more I believe this bold statement made last season by Orlando Magic TV commentator Matt Guokas.
Russell was legendary for directing his blocks to outlets.
You deserve a TP from Tommy himself
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http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_bianchi/2011/04/dwight-howard-is-a-greater-defensive-force-than-celtics-legend-bill-russell.html
courtesy of Redsarmy.com
I think it blasphemy!!!!! I obviously have never seen Russell, but if they had the DPOY award when he played, he woulda won unamousely every yaer of his career
Oh CeltsFan, you my dear just might have given me the inspiration for the best frontpage article ever. I'm 400 comments. You got the over, or the under?
Ill take the over. Crazy what people say huh?
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I just think this guy has visited this Blog and saw our reactions to that Hollinger column a few days ago....maybe in his mind he believes his article to be true, but realistically I just think he's trying to get a rise out of us.
I'd love for him to visit and try to debate the article.
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Way to jinx Dwight the night before an elimination game, guy.
Hey, Dwight: no pressure.
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This guy really hinges on what Matt Goukas says, huh? ::)
He also glosses over the claim that 35% or so more available rebounds explains Russell getting about 70% more rebounds than DH.
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This guy really hinges on what Matt Goukas says, huh? ::)
He also glosses over the claim that 35% or so more available rebounds explains Russell getting about 70% more rebounds than DH.
Don Mattingly from 1983 would've out-hit Babe Ruth from 1923: Truth.
Babe Ruth would've never been in the majors at his physical condition, even during his prime, in 1983: Truth.
If Don Mattingly had lived in 1923, he would've never had the medical, training, conditioning, and pharmaceutical benefits he had in 1983: Truth
You cannot just transplant a player to a legend that played 40 years ago and pretend they're on even footing. In reality, you can only compare one player's dominance in his era against another player's dominance in his own era: Truth.
In that comparison, Dwight Howard cannot hold Bill Russell's jock: Truth.
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Way to jinx Dwight the night before an elimination game, guy.
Hey, Dwight: no pressure.
The article is from a week ago.
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Babe Ruth would've never been in the majors at his physical condition, even during his prime, in 1983: Truth.
This guy was one of the best hitters in baseball:
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50256_2204734543_3498_n.jpg)
... and this guy is one of the best mashers in the game:
(http://www.xcomment.com/g2/img/fielder050308110603.gif)
Babe says he would have been just fine, thank you. ;)
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Babe Ruth would've never been in the majors at his physical condition, even during his prime, in 1983: Truth.
This guy was one of the best hitters in baseball:
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50256_2204734543_3498_n.jpg)
... and this guy is one of the best mashers in the game:
(http://www.xcomment.com/g2/img/fielder050308110603.gif)
Babe says he would have been just fine, thank you. ;)
No Cecil Fielder pics?
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This guy really hinges on what Matt Goukas says, huh? ::)
He also glosses over the claim that 35% or so more available rebounds explains Russell getting about 70% more rebounds than DH.
Don Mattingly from 1983 would've out-hit Babe Ruth from 1923: Truth.
Babe Ruth would've never been in the majors at his physical condition, even during his prime, in 1983: Truth.
If Don Mattingly had lived in 1923, he would've never had the medical, training, conditioning, and pharmaceutical benefits he had in 1983: Truth
You cannot just transplant a player to a legend that played 40 years ago and pretend they're on even footing. In reality, you can only compare one player's dominance in his era against another player's dominance in his own era: Truth.
In that comparison, Dwight Howard cannot hold Bill Russell's jock: Truth.
Really? Dwight = best defensive center in the league for much of his career. Bill = best defensive center in the league for much of his career. Dwight = best or second best rebounder in league for much of his career. Bill = best or second best rebounder in league for much of his career. Dwight = much better on defensive end then offensive end. Bill = much better on defensive end then offensive end. Dwight = best center in league. Bill = second best center in league. Dwight = crappy teammates. Bill = HOF teammates.
I could continue, but the reality is Dwight comparitively speaking is certain on the same level as Bill, thus far in his career when taking everything as a whole.
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Two words, and I'm not trying to be nasty: Ignorance and bias, that is the substance of this article, and I feel a bit sorry for this guy and how willing he is to prove that he's an example of both words to the rest of the world. My Dad has a favorite saying: "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." (Goukas, take notice).
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11 rings, more than Mr. Russell's got fingers. I rest my case.
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11 rings, more than Mr. Russell's got fingers. I rest my case.
Rings don't make a player better than another.
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11 rings, more than Mr. Russell's got fingers. I rest my case.
Rings don't make a player better than another.
When you're the centerpiece of those 11 championships (and won two college titles, and an Olympic Gold medal), it says something about your individual dominance.
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Mr. Russell was the best player ever. He had a basketball IQ that far surpassed any player even Larry Bird.
He also had the physical gifts. Not a lot of people know that Russell was an Olympic caliber high jumper and 800 meter runner. He could block a shot and deftly tip it to a guard and be the first player downcourt ont he wing for a layup. Or he'd block it straight up, grab it and dribble the length of the court ahead of everyone for a dunk.
Best of all, he had a knack for making the right plays at the right time in the right games (1965 ECF throw in the exception/Havlicek stole the ball).
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The whole argument is a bit ridiculous. Two completely different players in two different eras. Most of us have never seen Russell play so how can we talk? I know that the game is different now. I doubt Russell would have the same impact. That's all I'm saying.
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Think the rings tell the true story.
Is a testimony to Russel's legacy that he becomes the yardstick. Howard has become a much more skilled offensive player relative to where he started; but they are very different players. Howard is more in the Shaq mold. Russell and Dr. J were in a class by themselves.
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And then Orlando loses to the lowly Hawks. LOL
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Ok..I say lets get Dwight and give him a chance to beat Bills record in Boston ... ;D
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11 rings, more than Mr. Russell's got fingers. I rest my case.
Rings don't make a player better than another.
When you're the centerpiece of those 11 championships (and won two college titles, and an Olympic Gold medal), it says something about your individual dominance.
Or it says you have always been blessed to play with other HOFers in their primes. And multiple multiple HOFers.
Teams win championships. Bill is an all time great no doubt, but his teams won because they will littered with other great players. I mean even at San Francisco he had KC Jones with him. A college team with two future HOFers should win the title.
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He also was a poor foul shooter until crunch/clutch time
Also some of the hall of famers were recognized because of him, particularly KC
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I mean even at San Francisco he had KC Jones with him. A college team with two future HOFers should win the title.
Let's be realistic: K.C. Jones is in the Hall of Fame due to Bill Russell. The guy's career averages were 7.4 points and 4.3 assists, and he never averaged double digit scoring in his career. In college, he wasn't much better (9.8 points and 5.1 assists).
That San Francisco team won its two titles for one reason: Bill Russell.
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11 rings, more than Mr. Russell's got fingers. I rest my case.
Rings don't make a player better than another.
Hahahaha.
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The whole argument is a bit ridiculous. Two completely different players in two different eras. Most of us have never seen Russell play so how can we talk? I know that the game is different now. I doubt Russell would have the same impact. That's all I'm saying.
You can only really compare players against their contemporaries. If Russell played today he'd have had the benefit of current diet, exercise and training methods as well as coaching and he'd have been playing against better competition from early on.
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Not sure Dwight Howard is any better than Alonzo Mourning was defensively.
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Not sure Dwight Howard is any better than Alonzo Mourning was defensively.
Or Wallace in his prime, or Mutombo.
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That San Francisco team won its two titles for one reason: Bill Russell.
I think Jones was a pretty big part of those teams too. I think you're short changing him a bit there.
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That San Francisco team won its two titles for one reason: Bill Russell.
I think Jones was a pretty big part of those teams too. I think you're short changing him a bit there.
He was a good defender, but never much of a scorer and a mediocre facilitator. There are probably dozens, and maybe hundreds, of players Jones could have been replaced with and San Francisco would have still won. There probably wasn't a player alive who could have led to his college team to as much success as Russell.
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Dwight's a good shot blocker but I would take Ben Wallace, Zo, Mutombo, KG and Bill Russell over him if it's based on defense.