CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Jeff on October 11, 2010, 03:57:52 PM
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“He helps the ones he likes,” Doc Rivers said. “Kevin is great. Kevin tries to help every big in here. If that big doesn’t listen to him one time, he’ll never speak to him again. Literally one time. That has happened a couple of times. Those two guys that he did that to are no longer here and that may be one of the reasons. That’s Kevin, when you talk about the Celtic Way, whatever that is, just say Kevin Garnett, and you’re pretty much there. Everything he does and says is about the team.”
http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2010/10/11/practice-report-the-celtic-way/
let the speculation begin!!!
I say Patrick O'Bryant has to be at the top of the list. Maybe Shelden Williams is the other?
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O'Bryant's got to be one of them...I'll say Mikki Moore for the other, he seemed like a bit of a complainer, and you know KG was very vocal in advising his replacements when he was hurt.
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Interesting. It's also interesting that Doc sees this consistent with the "Celtic way". I love that KG is willing to help out his teammates, but I'm not sure the "my way or the highway, and you only get one chance" thing is something to be celebrated. I mean, it seems like KG has actively isolated teammates, and I just don't see that as a good thing.
So, what bigs do we have that have departed?
- POB
- Williams
- Rasheed
- Posey
- Powe
- Pollard (lots of "PO" names... is that a sign?)
- Brown (retired)
- Scal
- Moore
- Miles
- Batista (and yes, I'm really digging now)
I've got to say, I'm surprised that BBD isn't one of the two.
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I'm going with POB and Williams.
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Interesting, it's not really surprising from KG's part but it's kind of funny at the same time.
O'Bryant is one of them, that's for sure. I don't think Shelden is the second one, makes no sense to me, he seemed like a guy who listened and worked hard. Maybe Mikki but I'm not sure KG got him under his wing since he was hurt at the time and was kind of distant from the team.
PJ Brown then? ;D No way, and it can't be Leon either so I'm wondering who the second one is.
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I think the likely names have already been hit on here. I'd go with POB and MM, myself.
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Oh, and from his reactions on the sidelines, I'd say KG's vwery pleased with how Mr. Lasme has listened so far.
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One of them could be BBD even though he is physically there.
We all ask ourselves several times during the last couple seasons if he is mentally there ;D
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As admirably as Leon Powe has performed for us, he never looked like he dug KG's antics.
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I hope he works a lot with Erden. I wasn't at all impressed with his play in the world championships but his preseason play has been eye opening. I'm especially impressed by his mobility as a big and excellent hands/passing. He's def showed some potential.
If he can take a few offensive moves from KG Danny might have himself another draft steal. Either way though I gotta back pedal on my first negative assumptions of him. He's seemed hungry and aggressive this preseason which is not what I saw from him before. Hopefully KG sees that and takes this kid under his wing.
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if it's SHelden that would explain the inexplicable move of benching him during the regular season last year
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Interesting. It's also interesting that Doc sees this consistent with the "Celtic way". I love that KG is willing to help out his teammates, but I'm not sure the "my way or the highway, and you only get one chance" thing is something to be celebrated. I mean, it seems like KG has actively isolated teammates, and I just don't see that as a good thing.
So, what bigs do we have that have departed?
- POB
- Williams
- Rasheed
- Posey
- Powe
- Pollard (lots of "PO" names... is that a sign?)
- Brown (retired)
- Scal
- Moore
- Miles
- Batista (and yes, I'm really digging now)
I've got to say, I'm surprised that BBD isn't one of the two.
Im with Roy on this one... If KG really does give only one chance and practices the my way or the highway routine...Then I cant believe that BBD is still with this team. I can totally see Baby being jealous of what Garnett has accomplished and trying to beat out Garnett for the starting spot, which wont happen until KG retires. Very surprised BBD is still here after all his complaining and whatnot.
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if it's SHelden that would explain the inexplicable move of benching him during the regular season last year
He sucked.
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Yeah, I'm of the notion that I hope he works with Semih as well. Erdin already has the language issue, as he learns the game and the lingo.
As long as Semih works hard, I see no reason for KG to lose his patience with him.
And he appears to be a hard worker and fast learner.
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if it's SHelden that would explain the inexplicable move of benching him during the regular season last year
It wasn't unexpected. Glen Davis became available, Williams' minutes went down, and he proceeded to suck profusely, hence the benching.
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if it's SHelden that would explain the inexplicable move of benching him during the regular season last year
inexplicable? really? Did you see what Shelden did when he got into the game during the finals? He almost single handedly cost us the game from his incompetence.
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if it's SHelden that would explain the inexplicable move of benching him during the regular season last year
He sucked.
;D
Come on, Change! Tell us how you really feel.
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Agree on POB, but we had another recent camp invitee named Chris Johnson so could be him. Who was the other huge overweight retread big from last years training camp? We were all excited about him on the blog and suddenly he dropped off the map.
Definitely dont want to rule out Leon here. I dont think he would be able to deal wih KG being in his face. To much intensity for Powe.
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Agree on POB, but we had another recent camp invitee named Chris Johnson so could be him. Who was the other huge overweight retread big from last years training camp? We were all excited about him on the blog and suddenly he dropped off the map.
Definitely dont want to rule out Leon here. I dont think he would be able to deal wih KG being in his face. To much intensity for Powe.
Lol I think your refering to a Mr. Michael "Sweettooth" Sweetney. He had good hands and some good moves around the hoop. But he looked like he dined on midgets and small children in the offseason. Man was he a wide body. Ex Knickerbocker who litterally and figuratively ate his way out if the league ****.
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Agree on POB, but we had another recent camp invitee named Chris Johnson so could be him. Who was the other huge overweight retread big from last years training camp? We were all excited about him on the blog and suddenly he dropped off the map.
Definitely dont want to rule out Leon here. I dont think he would be able to deal wih KG being in his face. To much intensity for Powe.
Lol I think your refering to a Mr. Michael "Sweettooth" Sweetney. He had good hands and some good moves around the hoop. But he looked like he dined on midgets and small children in the offseason. Man was he a wide body. Ex Knickerbocker who litterally and figuratively ate his way out if the league ****.
That's him, Sweets.
He could swallow Nate whole, a little butter on his head and down the hatch.
Thanx
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If anyone wants a refresher on the POB story at the time, here's the Globe's article about KG's attempt to tutor him. KG's comments on what he does with young players are interesting in the context of Doc's quote:
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/01/02/paint_lessons_from_garnett/?page=1
Following a two-hour practice yesterday, Garnett gave O'Bryant up close and personal advice, which ranged from footwork and positioning to motivation through physical contact, as they battled for entry passes from assistant coach Clifford Ray.
"My game is not perfect, by any means," Garnett said. "But I do work hard on it and I try to spread it, and get guys to incorporate that same detail.
"It looks aggressive. I guess my style is very straight to the point. But if you ask Patrick, Baby [Glen Davis], even Leon [Powe], when I'm talking to you it's very passive and conservative and not as aggressive as it looks. The finishes and explosions, they all have to be aggressive to have the impact at which I'm trying to get them to understand. It can be aggressive at times, but what I'm saying is actually kind of soothing and conservative, and it's not like I'm trying to bite your head off. I'm trying to get you to do what I'm showing you.
"When you are finishing, nine times out of 10 it's in a crowd and it needs to be an aggressive finish."
If so, Garnett was being extremely passive-aggressive with emphatic dunks and defending as he tried to convince O'Bryant to be assertive and demonstrative near the basket.
"A lot of it is mental," said Garnett, who was wearing a wrap on his right leg. "If you want to work on things, I'm in here every day. I have a bit of a cold, but I'm in here. My leg is messed up, but I'm in here. So, if those guys are willing to work hard, I'm here."
Garnett said he spent extra time training as a young player with former Celtic Kevin McHale and former teammates Tom Hammonds and Sam Mitchell in Minnesota, and drew inspiration from Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon.
"Kevin said, 'If you want to get better, then show me,' " Garnett said. "Sam used to say, 'If you want it, then you'll work on it.' They are in the back of my mind and carried me to this point.
"We all need to work on every phase of the game. Kevin McHale would grab me and we would go through footwork on the post countless times, and I've been able to acquire some of that knowledge. Now it's my turn as a vet to try and instill this in some of the younger guys. Whether they want it or not, I'm here to give it to them. At the end of the day, it's whether they want to be better players and get better.
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If anyone wants a refresher on the POB story at the time, here's the Globe's article about KG's attempt to tutor him. KG's comments on what he does with young players are interesting in the context of Doc's quote:
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/01/02/paint_lessons_from_garnett/?page=1
Following a two-hour practice yesterday, Garnett gave O'Bryant up close and personal advice, which ranged from footwork and positioning to motivation through physical contact, as they battled for entry passes from assistant coach Clifford Ray.
"My game is not perfect, by any means," Garnett said. "But I do work hard on it and I try to spread it, and get guys to incorporate that same detail.
"It looks aggressive. I guess my style is very straight to the point. But if you ask Patrick, Baby [Glen Davis], even Leon [Powe], when I'm talking to you it's very passive and conservative and not as aggressive as it looks. The finishes and explosions, they all have to be aggressive to have the impact at which I'm trying to get them to understand. It can be aggressive at times, but what I'm saying is actually kind of soothing and conservative, and it's not like I'm trying to bite your head off. I'm trying to get you to do what I'm showing you.
"When you are finishing, nine times out of 10 it's in a crowd and it needs to be an aggressive finish."
If so, Garnett was being extremely passive-aggressive with emphatic dunks and defending as he tried to convince O'Bryant to be assertive and demonstrative near the basket.
"A lot of it is mental," said Garnett, who was wearing a wrap on his right leg. "If you want to work on things, I'm in here every day. I have a bit of a cold, but I'm in here. My leg is messed up, but I'm in here. So, if those guys are willing to work hard, I'm here."
Garnett said he spent extra time training as a young player with former Celtic Kevin McHale and former teammates Tom Hammonds and Sam Mitchell in Minnesota, and drew inspiration from Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon.
"Kevin said, 'If you want to get better, then show me,' " Garnett said. "Sam used to say, 'If you want it, then you'll work on it.' They are in the back of my mind and carried me to this point.
"We all need to work on every phase of the game. Kevin McHale would grab me and we would go through footwork on the post countless times, and I've been able to acquire some of that knowledge. Now it's my turn as a vet to try and instill this in some of the younger guys. Whether they want it or not, I'm here to give it to them. At the end of the day, it's whether they want to be better players and get better.
Good find, thanks! Just think of what KG and the O'Neals and Perk could teach Semih and Lasme. Seems to me like they'd be bright and eager students. And they both play aggressively.
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I'd also bet that Doc is referring to O'Bryant and Moore. O'Bryant's lack of a motor must have been enough to get on KG's bad side. Moore was always a step too late in whatever defensive move he made. That couldn't have made KG happy either.
I'm pretty sure Leon is not one of the guys. Every time Leon made a nice move, KG went nuts.
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Powe and BBD definitely is not on that list...
POB, Moore is on the top of the list
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgogHDTY0RA
hopefully this didnt get on KG's bad side =)
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If KG only helps the one he likes, does he also love the one he's with?
I mean, there's a rose in the fisted glove, and the Eagle flies with the Dove...
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Somebody else (not me) got the right answer (I think).
Mike Sweetney. He was in camp last year, and had a *chance* to make the squad. That makes more sense to me than Moore.
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Powe and BBD definitely is not on that list...
POB, Moore is on the top of the list
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgogHDTY0RA
hopefully this didnt get on KG's bad side =)
That was just payback for this
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzR60xPDLQs[/url)
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Actually I imagine KG spent hours upon hours of watching BBD's game film, then he reached the logical conclusion that eventually BBD would leave him hanging on a high five in approximately 3 years.
After learning that, KG spent hours after practice with Sergeant Hulka from "Stripes" learning how to properly berate a person until bringing them to tears.
Only after he put the work in, KG found the perfect moment to preemptively strike, making BBD cry on national TV a full 2 years before BBD would leave him hanging on a high five in a preseason game.
"Its like my man Tupac said," KG elaborated when faced with the theory, "Its my life or yo life, I'ma Bomb First!"
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I hope he works a lot with Erden. I wasn't at all impressed with his play in the world championships but his preseason play has been eye opening. I'm especially impressed by his mobility as a big and excellent hands/passing. He's def showed some potential.
I agree. I was downplaying him all offseason. I figured he was another Euro big man who hucked up outside shots and was weak inside. Turns out he is the opposite. He has played well inside and, while he needs to improve his boxing out and rebound positioning, has shown some promise. I don't know what his upside is but he's on track to become a competent NBA backup center. Maybe a starter someday?
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Apparently it's fun to speculate on the 'who', but what hurts is my new idea of KG being not quite the guy I thought he was.
Doc also!
I despise that cliqueish (sp) stuff and it hurts the 'team chemistry' that's so important to being a winning team.
Doc airing it on media waves was not the brightest move for a coach. It seems like he's proud of this behavior from KG.
And it can't be doubted or put in the category of heresay because we got it straight from the horse's mouth.
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Apparently it's fun to speculate on the 'who', but what hurts is my new idea of KG being not quite the guy I thought he was.
Doc also!
I despise that cliqueish (sp) stuff and it hurts the 'team chemistry' that's so important to being a winning team.
Doc airing it on media waves was not the brightest move for a coach. It seems like he's proud of this behavior from KG.
And it can't be doubted or put in the category of heresay because we got it straight from the horse's mouth.
I'm with you on this one. Doc is usually pretty media savvy; I'm not sure what is gained by admitting that KG isolates the teammates that have gotten on his bad side.
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Apparently it's fun to speculate on the 'who', but what hurts is my new idea of KG being not quite the guy I thought he was.
Doc also!
I despise that cliqueish (sp) stuff and it hurts the 'team chemistry' that's so important to being a winning team.
Doc airing it on media waves was not the brightest move for a coach. It seems like he's proud of this behavior from KG.
And it can't be doubted or put in the category of heresay because we got it straight from the horse's mouth.
I think maybe you're being a little hard on KG. He's only human, and he's more than willing to work with younger guys..but if you turn him down he turns his back on you. I'd rather have a guy who is willing to put in the time with guys who want it than guys who either don't want to put in extra time at all or don't care how the youngsters develop.
Just because KG takes it a little personal when guys don't show the same passion for the game that he does, doesn't mean he isn't an exceptional player, an exceptional teammate, and an exceptional human being. That's my read on it anyways.
Also it should be noted that everyone we've discussed as guys KG might have 'blackballed' from his own tutelage are fringe rotation guys that are not on the team. As someone said earlier, I'd be incredibly surprised if Baby hasn't tuned KG out from time to time, but you can see the two have chemistry still, so its not like we should take this as KG's strict personal dogma or anything.
The guys who want help get help..the guys who don't, he doesn't waste his time with. Truthfully if a guy on the edge of the rotation doesn't want help from a first ballot HOF'er and the best defender of the last decade, I'm glad they're gone.
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Apparently it's fun to speculate on the 'who', but what hurts is my new idea of KG being not quite the guy I thought he was.
Doc also!
I despise that cliqueish (sp) stuff and it hurts the 'team chemistry' that's so important to being a winning team.
Doc airing it on media waves was not the brightest move for a coach. It seems like he's proud of this behavior from KG.
And it can't be doubted or put in the category of heresay because we got it straight from the horse's mouth.
I think maybe you're being a little hard on KG. He's only human, and he's more than willing to work with younger guys..but if you turn him down he turns his back on you. I'd rather have a guy who is willing to put in the time with guys who want it than guys who either don't want to put in extra time at all or don't care how the youngsters develop.
Just because KG takes it a little personal when guys don't show the same passion for the game that he does, doesn't mean he isn't an exceptional player, an exceptional teammate, and an exceptional human being. That's my read on it anyways.
Also it should be noted that everyone we've discussed as guys KG might have 'blackballed' from his own tutelage are fringe rotation guys that are not on the team. As someone said earlier, I'd be incredibly surprised if Baby hasn't tuned KG out from time to time, but you can see the two have chemistry still, so its not like we should take this as KG's strict personal dogma or anything.
The guys who want help get help..the guys who don't, he doesn't waste his time with. Truthfully if a guy on the edge of the rotation doesn't want help from a first ballot HOF'er and the best defender of the last decade, I'm glad they're gone.
this! TP
i think it's a good decision to cut young players who don't want to get better. If their biggest plus is "potential", and they don't want a part in achieving it, then give me Scalabrine! lol
- LilRip
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Doc is usually pretty media savvy; I'm not sure what is gained by admitting that KG isolates the teammates that have gotten on his bad side.
This I also agree with though. I'm not sure "isolates" is the term I'd use, but there is no reason Doc should be saying this, unless he's trying to stop Erden from making the same mistakes as big men before him.
I'm not sure it would matter though...Erden probably can't even order a Big Mac yet...let alone understand KG's profanity-laced pearls of wisdom.
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In the grand scheme of the things, the most important part of the article was probably this:
It was a half hour or so after practice had concluded and Kevin Garnett was finished with his customary individual workout. As he looked up from his own efforts, Garnett saw Semih Erden going through the paces on pick and roll defense. Garnett called over to assistant coach Kevin Eastman and asked him to, “get Luke,” as in Harangody, the Celtics other rookie big man.
Dripping with sweat and slightly out of breath, Garnett gathered the two together and began a tutorial as only Garnett can. He wanted them to talk loud. No, louder. Let there be no doubt which way they were showing, Garnett told them in no uncertain terms.
Erden had been too quiet on Sunday against the Raptors, and in one instance he let Rajon Rondo get steamrolled by a screen. The lesson took no more than 10 minutes and left little time for pleasantries or niceties. That’s just fine with Harangody who relishes this kind of attention from Garnett.
“He’s not really yelling,” Harangody said after the Raptors game. “He’s teaching. I like that, to be honest.”
I like this quote from Doc, too:
On a coaching staff that believes in tangibles, understanding the Celtics Way is a bit of an intangible phenomenon.
“I know it when I see it,” Rivers said. “It’s our speed. It’s unselfish. Being a Celtic is, every decision you make is about the team. Every cut you make is about the team. Every pass you make is about the team. You take yourself out of it, then you’re probably a pretty good Celtic. It’s not for everyone. If you don’t want to win and you don’t want to play team basketball and it’s more about you then you’re probably not a good Celtic.”
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In the grand scheme of the things, the most important part of the article was probably this:
It was a half hour or so after practice had concluded and Kevin Garnett was finished with his customary individual workout. As he looked up from his own efforts, Garnett saw Semih Erden going through the paces on pick and roll defense. Garnett called over to assistant coach Kevin Eastman and asked him to, “get Luke,” as in Harangody, the Celtics other rookie big man.
Dripping with sweat and slightly out of breath, Garnett gathered the two together and began a tutorial as only Garnett can. He wanted them to talk loud. No, louder. Let there be no doubt which way they were showing, Garnett told them in no uncertain terms.
Erden had been too quiet on Sunday against the Raptors, and in one instance he let Rajon Rondo get steamrolled by a screen. The lesson took no more than 10 minutes and left little time for pleasantries or niceties. That’s just fine with Harangody who relishes this kind of attention from Garnett.
“He’s not really yelling,” Harangody said after the Raptors game. “He’s teaching. I like that, to be honest.”
I like this quote from Doc, too:
On a coaching staff that believes in tangibles, understanding the Celtics Way is a bit of an intangible phenomenon.
“I know it when I see it,” Rivers said. “It’s our speed. It’s unselfish. Being a Celtic is, every decision you make is about the team. Every cut you make is about the team. Every pass you make is about the team. You take yourself out of it, then you’re probably a pretty good Celtic. It’s not for everyone. If you don’t want to win and you don’t want to play team basketball and it’s more about you then you’re probably not a good Celtic.”
Love to read that stuff.
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i can't see Bird or Russell or even Paul Silas being all that friendly towards guys who join the Celtics and then blatantly ignore a veteran's advice or coaching.
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I think this is being blown out of proportion.
Has there ever been a chemistry issue since the Big Three were assembled? No.
Why do so many think there is some sort of rift between KG and BBD? What happened a couple seasons ago was in the heat of the moment and KG did not intend to embarrass BBD, he just got (over) emotional. I am sure they worked things out that night, if they even needed too. If there was a problem, BBD would not be on the team anymore.
I think this whole story is about KG as a "coach." Not KG as a teammate or even KG as a person.
Once a player ignores his advice and wastes his time, that's a wrap. I don't believe this means he won't ever help them with anything, but simply that he won't spend extra time with them before/after practice.
I have no idea who the two anonymous players are, but it really doesn't matter. They are gone.
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Apparently it's fun to speculate on the 'who', but what hurts is my new idea of KG being not quite the guy I thought he was.
Doc also!
I despise that cliqueish (sp) stuff and it hurts the 'team chemistry' that's so important to being a winning team.
Doc airing it on media waves was not the brightest move for a coach. It seems like he's proud of this behavior from KG.
And it can't be doubted or put in the category of heresay because we got it straight from the horse's mouth.
What hurts the team more is you not listening when someone is trying to help you. KG is not getting anything out of it, not MVPs etc., except the player getting better, which in turn would help the team more. If you're not going to listen, then I'll just move on to someone who will. I put in great effort all the time, I expect you do the same. Actually more impressed now with KG. It’s not like it wasn’t told to every player that once you enter that Boston Celtics door, whatever you do is for the better interest of the team. This team is aiming for the Championship every year, if you're not willing to geared up for that then they shouldn't be on this team. Hence whoever those two guys were. ;D
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You can only help people that want to learn. I can't imagine a player refusing KG's help.
It's like that time Kareem Abdul Jabbar approached Eddie Curry in New York Knicks to tell him what's he doing wrong(he was a big man coach or something) and Eddie got offended that Karrem "dissed" him in front of everybody. He told him if he wants to tell him something that is should be in private :S
Eddie fricking Curry ;D
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This...
I think this is being blown out of proportion.
Has there ever been a chemistry issue since the Big Three were assembled? No.
Why do so many think there is some sort of rift between KG and BBD? What happened a couple seasons ago was in the heat of the moment and KG did not intend to embarrass BBD, he just got (over) emotional. I am sure they worked things out that night, if they even needed too. If there was a problem, BBD would not be on the team anymore.
I think this whole story is about KG as a "coach." Not KG as a teammate or even KG as a person.
Once a player ignores his advice and wastes his time, that's a wrap. I don't believe this means he won't ever help them with anything, but simply that he won't spend extra time with them before/after practice.
I have no idea who the two anonymous players are, but it really doesn't matter. They are gone.
And this...
Apparently it's fun to speculate on the 'who', but what hurts is my new idea of KG being not quite the guy I thought he was.
Doc also!
I despise that cliqueish (sp) stuff and it hurts the 'team chemistry' that's so important to being a winning team.
Doc airing it on media waves was not the brightest move for a coach. It seems like he's proud of this behavior from KG.
And it can't be doubted or put in the category of heresay because we got it straight from the horse's mouth.
What hurts the team more is you not listening when someone is trying to help you. KG is not getting anything out of it, not MVPs etc., except the player getting better, which in turn would help the team more. If you're not going to listen, then I'll just move on to someone who will. I put in great effort all the time, I expect you do the same. Actually more impressed now with KG. It’s not like it wasn’t told to every player that once you enter that Boston Celtics door, whatever you do is for the better interest of the team. This team is aiming for the Championship every year, if you're not willing to geared up for that then they shouldn't be on this team. Hence whoever those two guys were. ;D
TPs to both.
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why the hate on shelden here? The guys who were complainers on this team were POB and Mikki those are your prime suspects...shelden was a good trooper the whole time here alot of people forget him stepping in for BBD early season and doing very well. The guy just dropped 21 and 14 for denver the other night
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why the hate on shelden here? The guys who were complainers on this team were POB and Mikki those are your prime suspects...shelden was a good trooper the whole time here alot of people forget him stepping in for BBD early season and doing very well. The guy just dropped 21 and 14 for denver the other night
Did he? That's great to see.
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Why do so many think there is some sort of rift between KG and BBD? What happened a couple seasons ago was in the heat of the moment and KG did not intend to embarrass BBD, he just got (over) emotional. I am sure they worked things out that night, if they even needed too. If there was a problem, BBD would not be on the team anymore.
Agreed.
The message KG seems to be sending here is "if you won't put any effort into your development as a player, I won't put any effort into your development either. I care exactly as much as you do."
Baby has a history of whining (the annual complaint about not knowing his role) and making stupid decisions (the broken thumb last year being the biggest). Probably sometimes he annoys KG and, you know, everyone else.
But Baby also has a history of making an effort, whether it's developing a jump shot or collecting Tommy points for diving out of bounds and taking charges.
And Baby cares about getting better. When he's so upset about playing badly that he cries, he shows that he cares and is listening. When he yells "I know I [expletive] up" in response to KG's criticisms from the bench, he shows that he cares and is listening.
When KG was asked what he was going to do right after the crying incident, he said that he and Baby were going to talk and "get deep." Because Baby is worth his time.
Baby is in the doghouse with some posters here, but he clearly isn't with KG. Last week, they were both dancing in that Halloween mask video. And last game, KG made a point of getting off the bench and going across the court to where the trainers were trying to make Baby's face stop bleeding... and he sure didn't appear to be saying "he's annoying anyway, can't you just let him keep bleeding or trade him or something?"
KG isn't siphoning off the weak or the sensitive or the irritating... he just isn't bothering with those who can't be bothered themselves.
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A good part of the value of veterans in a locker room is when they can establish high standards of work and let the coach play a little more the 'good cop'. Part of Doc's credibility as a coach is that he was a successful player, because players ultimately look up to other successful players more than anyone.
And if a young big guy isn't going to relish coaching attention from the likes of KG, well, KG has probably just helped the coaching staff sniff out that he's probably not worth their time either--because that young guy likely isn't going to listen to anybody.
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First guy, Scals. Second guy, umm, Scals. ;D
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First guy, Scals. Second guy, umm, Scals. ;D
Not a chance--KG knows fully-formed clay when he sees it!
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First guy, Scals. Second guy, umm, Scals. ;D
Not a chance--KG knows fully-formed clay when he sees it!
Lol. Plus, Scals loved how demanding KG was of the team.
I try to get a sense of what ethereal elements might have altered the chemistry of the Celtics, but I am told that the difference is not intangible; it’s tangible, and it’s not complicated.
“This is my seventh year in the N.B.A. I’ve been to the finals twice, and those teams were great. But they were not like this team,” Scalabrine says. “And the reason why is Kevin Garnett. The media perception about Garnett is real. When Kevin walks into the facility and the weight room, he jokes around and makes fun of guys. But then about 15 minutes before practice, it’s all focus. It’s all work. If he is not clear about something, we don’t move on until we are all clear. He solves a lot of problems. I mean, I’ve played with good players. I played with Jason Kidd, and Kidd is an incredible gamer. But he was never as demanding of his teammates the way Kevin is. Not half as much. Not a quarter as much.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/sports/playmagazine/02play-klosterman.html?_r=5&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin
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why the hate on shelden here? The guys who were complainers on this team were POB and Mikki those are your prime suspects...shelden was a good trooper the whole time here alot of people forget him stepping in for BBD early season and doing very well. The guy just dropped 21 and 14 for denver the other night
Huzzah! I guess that means the Lakers won't have a cakewalk to the NBA Finals through the rest of the Western Conference.
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Well...yeah. After reading everybody here, it does make a little more sense. Maybe Doc should have used different words to describe or articulate what he was trying to say.
I really don't want to not like KG anymore. Always LOVED him and this just sort of felt like a punch in the gut, on first glance.
Can't wait for the game tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well...yeah. After reading everybody here, it does make a little more sense. Maybe Doc should have used different words to describe or articulate what he was trying to say.
I really don't want to not like KG anymore. Always LOVED him and this just sort of felt like a punch in the gut, on first glance.
Can't wait for the game tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I posted this in the blog link as well, in reply to your post about KG "trying to take away Pruitt's dignity", but I'll put it here as well. I really think that some are taking this line from Doc and jumping to some questionable conclusions.
For example, Gabe Pruitt absolutely loved playing with Garnett. He’s one of many, many young players that credit him with being an outstanding mentor. In Pruitt’s words:
“I remember when we were overseas I got a call and it said come to Glen (Davis’) room. So [the rookies] went to Glen’s room and there was a guy with two suit racks. KG walks in and is like, ‘Pick out three suits, it’s on me.’ We looked at each other like, ‘Whoa’ and started shopping through them and picked out three suits. They’re really nice suits from Italy and that was my first time really getting a suit like that because I don’t really wear suits. But I was pumped that he said that when I walked in and saw the selection and they custom made everything — the shoes, the jacket, all that stuff — so I was pretty excited about that.”
“For the most part he’s always full of energy and full of stories. Every day you come looking forward to another story that happened to him these past years. When he comes in you’re looking forward to it and he stops and sits down and you get into it, it’s like ‘I wonder what’s next.’ There’s always something that makes you say, ‘Oh wow,’ something crazy like that. He’s always full of energy, always keeping spirits up. If you’re down, he’s somebody who will pull you to the side and talk to you. He’s a real clam off the court and on the court he’s energetic and crazy, but he’s a really good guy both ways. He really helps me out when I need help or times when stuff comes up, he’s the guy I go to and talk to.” – Gabe Pruitt
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=7841
Considering that this whole thread is based off of an interview in which Doc Rivers, an NBA vet known as a player’s coach and one of the nice guys in the game, felt that he was saying something complimentary about KG and giving it credit for being a positive for the team, in addition to interviews like the above from the “bullied” Gabe Pruitt, I tend to think that perhaps some aren't interpreting what Doc said the way that Doc meant it. At least, that’s my opinion.
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Well...yeah. After reading everybody here, it does make a little more sense. Maybe Doc should have used different words to describe or articulate what he was trying to say.
I really don't want to not like KG anymore. Always LOVED him and this just sort of felt like a punch in the gut, on first glance.
Can't wait for the game tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I posted this in the blog link as well, in reply to your post about KG "trying to take away Pruitt's dignity", but I'll put it here as well. I really think that some are taking this line from Doc and jumping to some questionable conclusions.
For example, Gabe Pruitt absolutely loved playing with Garnett. He’s one of many, many young players that credit him with being an outstanding mentor. In Pruitt’s words:
“I remember when we were overseas I got a call and it said come to Glen (Davis’) room. So [the rookies] went to Glen’s room and there was a guy with two suit racks. KG walks in and is like, ‘Pick out three suits, it’s on me.’ We looked at each other like, ‘Whoa’ and started shopping through them and picked out three suits. They’re really nice suits from Italy and that was my first time really getting a suit like that because I don’t really wear suits. But I was pumped that he said that when I walked in and saw the selection and they custom made everything — the shoes, the jacket, all that stuff — so I was pretty excited about that.”
“For the most part he’s always full of energy and full of stories. Every day you come looking forward to another story that happened to him these past years. When he comes in you’re looking forward to it and he stops and sits down and you get into it, it’s like ‘I wonder what’s next.’ There’s always something that makes you say, ‘Oh wow,’ something crazy like that. He’s always full of energy, always keeping spirits up. If you’re down, he’s somebody who will pull you to the side and talk to you. He’s a real clam off the court and on the court he’s energetic and crazy, but he’s a really good guy both ways. He really helps me out when I need help or times when stuff comes up, he’s the guy I go to and talk to.” – Gabe Pruitt
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=7841
Considering that this whole thread is based off of an interview in which Doc Rivers, an NBA vet known as a player’s coach and one of the nice guys in the game, felt that he was saying something complimentary about KG and giving it credit for being a positive for the team, in addition to interviews like the above from the “bullied” Gabe Pruitt, I tend to think that perhaps some aren't interpreting what Doc said the way that Doc meant it. At least, that’s my opinion.
I'd forgotten about that suits story--a great reminder, thanks!
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First guy, Scals. Second guy, umm, Scals. ;D
Not a chance--KG knows fully-formed clay when he sees it!
Clay is a bit lumpy. ;)
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why the hate on shelden here? The guys who were complainers on this team were POB and Mikki those are your prime suspects...shelden was a good trooper the whole time here alot of people forget him stepping in for BBD early season and doing very well. The guy just dropped 21 and 14 for denver the other night
what did POB and Moore have to complain about ? they were both stiffs who should have been counting their blessings that they were fortunate enough to be a Boston Celtic for a season.