CelticsStrong
Beyond the Association => Global Basketball => Topic started by: SShoreFan 2.0 on July 22, 2008, 09:12:04 AM
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With the Olympic$ due up in a few weeks, I thought it would be interesting to post what Mark Cuban's thoughts about the Olympic$ and the NBA. Like him or not, you have to admit the man is interesting.
Read what he has to say and (if so moved) let me know what you think.
The following is taken from Mark Cuban's blog site.
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The NBA and the Olympics
Jun 22nd 2008 12:33PM
This is my original post on the NBA and the Olympics. One thing I will add to it is for each and every blogger who so desires to undertake a simple test. On your blog, add a picture of the Olympics 5 Rings and a picture of your favorite player in their Olympic uniform. Underneath the pictures, add the caption, "My Official Olympics Update" and then chronicle that player in the Olympics with pictures from the official Olympics website. Show your patriotism and pride... that is until the you get a takedown letter or a Cease and Desist ordering you to take it down.
Thats how much about country and pride the Olympics is these days....
A 2nd item to generate some thought is the concept of players and coaches "And 1ing" their nationalities in order to be able to participate or to better market themselves. Whats "And 1ing" ? Being born and/or raised in one country but leveraging a ancestral link to another country where your odds are better to make the team. So for instance, your great, great grandfather was born in Upper Slobobia. in order to play on the Upper Slobobian basketball or handball team, you get a passport from there. Thats "And 1ing". Adding a nationality so that you can play on their team.
Or what about giving up citizenship from your native country to come here and play on our team. Is that what we want to root for as we face an onslaught of commercials on one of who knows how many cable networks that GE will be filling with Olympic programming ?
Are we sure the Olympics is about patriotism and pride ? Or is it about commercialism ? Im certaintly not against GE and the US Olympic Team making as much money as they possibly can on the game. More power to them. But lets not lie to ourselves about what is going on.
Here is my original post from more than 4 years ago.
NBA and the Olympics
Apr 7th 2004 10:54AM
Once again I was asked about my position on NBA players and the Olympics. One question from 1 reporter usually leads to followups form 100 more. So in the interest of disclosure, fairness and time, I decided to post the response here and save myself some time.....
In the sports marketing world, advertisers usually have a set sports marketing budget. Each advertiser gets pitched by all the different sports entities competing for those dollars. Among those competitors are both the Olympics and NBA. One of the beauties of the NBA pitch is that our athletes are so recognizable, personable and respected. The ability for an advertiser to connect their products to KG, Tim Duncan, Shaq, Dirk, etc, individually, or by buying sponsorship or commercials in game, is a huge selling point for us. It should be a huge selling point exclusively available to the NBA, but unfortunately that is no longer the case.
When the NBA was broadcast on NBC, it was far less of an issue. With NBC as the home of the Olympics and the NBA broadcast partner, there were a ton of cross promotional and selling opportunities. NBC could promote the Olympics in NBA games, and promote the NBA in the Olympics broadcasts. NBC could require advertisers to buy NBA advertising in order to get Olympic advertising,or vice versa. There were untold win - win scenarios by having both the Olympics and the NBA together at NBC.
That obviously is not longer the case. The NBA is now on ESPN/ABC and TNT. They are paying us a lot of money in a deal that has been working well for all invovled. What in the world are we doing helping our partners competition ? Why are we giving our most valuable manpower to a huge business, the Olympics so they can try to take revenue away from the NBA and our partners ?
Lets put this in basketball terms...Would you trade KG, TD, Peja, Jermaine and 10 more all stars , and pay their salaries in case they get hurt , for ..........nothing.
In exchange for providing our best players to the Olympics, the value we are supposed to receive is increased visibility and demand for the NBA, its players and merchandise. The value of which can be quantified as the total revenues received annually by each team from international TV and merchandise sales.
I wont tell you what that number is,but I can tell you it wouldnt pay the salary of a player signed for the million dollar exception this year.
So we are subsidizing the US Olympic committee by:
- Providing players that we pay for
- Reducing the amount of advertising dollars available to the NBA and our broadcast partners by allowing advertisers to use our players via Olympic broadcasts and programs
- Putting our most valuable players at risk, with the possibility of having to pay their salaries even if they are unable to perform,or to perform at the previous levels
- Potentially cheating our fans and customers who make investments in our league, teams and products, with players who are worn down or injured from their Olympic experience
- Whats even crazier is that the USA fans who buy our tickets and pay the players salary probably wont even get to see our stars in more than the Gold medal game. If that !
Where is the logic in any of this ?
I understand that players want to represent their countries. Thats great. Lets put toegether an NBA organized and sanctioned international competition that we can control and profit from. We can allow any country to enter a team, and let NBA players represent their country.
If its that important, lets also expand the exhibitions the NBA plays in and against other countries. Im all for international play as long as its in the context of an NBA program that gives consideration to the core NBA fan, customer and partner first and foremost.
If you agree, call your favorite team and tell them you dont want your players participating in the Olympics. You want them getting ready for the next season. And then order your season tickets :)
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Cuban goes off on a lot of tangents there. First he calls out the Olympics for squashing patriotism for going after blogs - fine, that's justifiable. But then he essentially rescinds that by saying that he doesn't want America's best athletes to compete. I understand the worry, and the possibility of losing the return on your investment, but this ultimately should be up to the player to decide, or at worse a contract clause which determines Olympic eligibility. I don't think teams should have the right to keep their players from playing in the Olympics.
By placing the emphasis here on the financial side, Cuban is missing the point of the Olympics. In fact, we probably all are, since there's very little rivalry to drive our patriotism anymore. We don't have a Cold War opponent, or a USSR to go up against, so the impact of winning gold medals just isn't the same. As a result, issues like marketing and branding have come to the forefront. We all subsidize the Olympics, and athletes wearing our colors are our team - they represent us on a worldwide scale in the most respected competition in history. To me, that's worth the investment, to Cuban, whose stakes are much higher, maybe it's not.
But I'll be watching every night, from handball to archery, just because the Olympics are still something special, and a cause to get excited and make exceptions. Unfortunately, I may be part of a dwindling population that feels that way.
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I had no problems with this when international competitions were short and sweet. Just the Olympics every four years for a couple of weeks. Fine. Take the players and enjoy being part of a sacred tournament.
But what we have now? This is just ridiculous. It's every summer now. It's just too much. There's no way international committees should get the players without playing compensation. The burden on players nowadays is also ridiculous, they need to start sitting out some of these competitions and let their body rest. They're hurting their careers.
Most NBA teams do suffer adverse consequences from players playing in international basketball. They should be compensated for that.
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First of all, how much does the US Olympic really make? I was at the mall and there was something there where when we buy a card, one dollar goes to the US Olympic Committee or something like that, so if these guys are taking donations tell me that theyre not making that much money in the first place.
Also, I wonder how the other leagues do it too. Its not like the NBA is the only one sending players out there. Actually, most of the players come from Europeans leagues, so are they complaining, adapting? How do they deal with this?
Personally, Mark Cuban is just a Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.. I understand his argument, but its ultimately up to the players decide. If the players have enough national pride like his own player Dirk does (which I wish it would improve here in the US) then just let them play. I mentioned Dirk because it appears that Dirk was crying like a small child when his team qualified for the Olympics. Maybe Cuban is just mad that his best player doesnt care as much about the NBA as he does with international basketball, as Dirk was crying just for the fact that he can compete in the Olympics.
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I had no problems with this when international competitions were short and sweet. Just the Olympics every four years for a couple of weeks. Fine. Take the players and enjoy being part of a sacred tournament.
But what we have now? This is just ridiculous. It's every summer now. It's just too much. There's no way international committees should get the players without playing compensation. The burden on players nowadays is also ridiculous, they need to start sitting out some of these competitions and let their body rest. They're hurting their careers.
Most NBA teams do suffer adverse consequences from players playing in international basketball. They should be compensated for that.
okay, first of all, the players were INVITED to the program. they asked them for a yearly commitment and none of them were required to enter.
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My simplistic version is the professionals should stay home. I loved the 1992 Dream Team, but since then it's been a debacle. Send the kids, let them get roughed up if the have to.
The part that made the 1980 Lake Placid win over the Soviets so great was that it was our kids vs. their professionals.
I'd rather watch Cinderella at the Olympics and the best of the rest in the NBA.
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My simplistic version is the professionals should stay home. I loved the 1992 Dream Team, but since then it's been a debacle. Send the kids, let them get roughed up if the have to.
The part that made the 1980 Lake Placid win over the Soviets so great was that it was our kids vs. their professionals.
I'd rather watch Cinderella at the Olympics and the best of the rest in the NBA.
If she had any game she'd be there. It's those [dang] glass slippers she insists on wearing holding her back - slip slidin' all over the court. Plus there's that whole curfew thing that gets confusing when she's in different time zones around the earth.
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My simplistic version is the professionals should stay home. I loved the 1992 Dream Team, but since then it's been a debacle. Send the kids, let them get roughed up if the have to.
The part that made the 1980 Lake Placid win over the Soviets so great was that it was our kids vs. their professionals.
I'd rather watch Cinderella at the Olympics and the best of the rest in the NBA.
The thing is the Olympics have events that are the best of best, and others that are not so important. For example, for track, swimming, gymnastics, the Olympics is the absolute top. For soccer and some extent volleyball, its the competitive, but not necessarily the best.
The World Cup has the absolute best players playing for national pride, which excels any league championship, money and team pride that may come from other tournaments. Thats why its so beautiful! You see players from an African country toe to toe with any european countries and to know that both nations are equally relying on these players for national pride. Thats why teams like Australia can come up with cinderella stories and all these awesome stories come from.
The point? I think the Olympics is trying to make basketball as relevant as that. Right now theres the World Championship and the Olympics as premiers international tournaments. I think theyre trying to bring the national pride out and have the best players competing to make every tournament a great story. Some places already feel that way. Unfortunately USA is behind that.
Then again, I would be a little concerned if we had an injured Celtics player playing.
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The players are under contract. They cannot play for other professional teams while under contract, but it is considered OK for them to play for their national team in the Olympics.
Cuban has a valid point in stating that these players who are under contract with NBA teams are making tons of money for sponsors and networks that pay nothing to the players nor to their bosses.
It is silly to discuss wear and tear itself, since the player can decide how he chooses to play out his career. The only problem is that they are under contract and have a commitment to their team. Owners and sponsors should not have to honor contracts if a player damages his career through an injury in the Olympics playing for a team that doesn't pay them wearing the uniform of a sponsor that also doesn't pay them.
The players are clearly not the bad guys in this, as they just want to be part of something big and help teams win, regardless of the possible effect on their careers.
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Cuban should sign with his players contracts that would allow him to fire them if they play international tournaments. Or contracts that simply don't allow them to play international basketball. I'd like the Celtics to do it.
But it's this simple, nothing else to add. If he doesn't do that, or doesn't want to, I can't even understand what is he complaining about.
Soccer clubs had, and have, reasons to complain. They are being compensated now, but probably it's still not enough.
I had no problems with this when international competitions were short and sweet. Just the Olympics every four years for a couple of weeks. Fine. Take the players and enjoy being part of a sacred tournament.
But what we have now? This is just ridiculous. It's every summer now. It's just too much. There's no way international committees should get the players without playing compensation. The burden on players nowadays is also ridiculous, they need to start sitting out some of these competitions and let their body rest. They're hurting their careers.
It's pretty much the same as ever, no? Olympics, World Cup, Eurobasket (or other continental competitions), each of one every four years. What has changed?
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Cuban should sign with his players contracts that would allow him to fire them if they play international tournaments. Or contracts that simply don't allow them to play international basketball. I'd like the Celtics to do it.
But it's this simple, nothing else to add. If he doesn't do that, or doesn't want to, I can't even understand what is he complaining about.
It's illegal under NBA contracts, not allowed to tell players they can't compete.
I had no problems with this when international competitions were short and sweet. Just the Olympics every four years for a couple of weeks. Fine. Take the players and enjoy being part of a sacred tournament.
But what we have now? This is just ridiculous. It's every summer now. It's just too much. There's no way international committees should get the players without playing compensation. The burden on players nowadays is also ridiculous, they need to start sitting out some of these competitions and let their body rest. They're hurting their careers.
It's pretty much the same as ever, no? Olympics, World Cup, Eurobasket (or other continental competitions), each of one every four years. What has changed?
It's not the same as ever. NBA athletes didn't take part back in the day. More international players who play more competitions like Eurobasket. More qualifying games than before. More ... more ... more more more.
At the same time the NBA season keeps getting longer, the Celtics taking 26 games to win the title last season.
Their bodies need more rest.
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Cuban should sign with his players contracts that would allow him to fire them if they play international tournaments. Or contracts that simply don't allow them to play international basketball. I'd like the Celtics to do it.
But it's this simple, nothing else to add. If he doesn't do that, or doesn't want to, I can't even understand what is he complaining about.
It's illegal under NBA contracts, not allowed to tell players they can't compete.
Didn't know, thanks for the info. He should lobby the NBA, then.
I had no problems with this when international competitions were short and sweet. Just the Olympics every four years for a couple of weeks. Fine. Take the players and enjoy being part of a sacred tournament.
But what we have now? This is just ridiculous. It's every summer now. It's just too much. There's no way international committees should get the players without playing compensation. The burden on players nowadays is also ridiculous, they need to start sitting out some of these competitions and let their body rest. They're hurting their careers.
It's pretty much the same as ever, no? Olympics, World Cup, Eurobasket (or other continental competitions), each of one every four years. What has changed?
It's not the same as ever. NBA athletes didn't take part back in the day. More international players who play more competitions like Eurobasket. More qualifying games than before. More ... more ... more more more.
At the same time the NBA season keeps getting longer, the Celtics taking 26 games to win the title last season.
Their bodies need more rest.
I don't think there are more qualifying games. The hosts, the world champs and the continental tournaments winners qualify automatically. Other teams play a 6 days tournament.
International players always played the Eurobasket, the difference is that there are more international players in the NBA. But nobody is going to extinguish Eurobasket because a dozen players, who can't opt not to play, have a long season in the NBA. FIBA won't change their competitions because of the interests of NBA owners. If they're worried, they can short the NBA season or stop hiring players who want to play for their NTs.
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International players always played the Eurobasket, the difference is that there are more international players in the NBA. But nobody is going to extinguish Eurobasket because a dozen players, who can't opt not to play, have a long season in the NBA. FIBA won't change their competitions because of the interests of NBA owners. If they're worried, they can short the NBA season or stop hiring players who want to play for their NTs.
Yes I don't think they have any shot at restructuring the schedule and qualifiers for Eurobasket or equivalent competitions.
I think they can make the Olympics and World Basketball Champs more NBA friendly though ... and they can do that by limiting qualifiers to lowly basketball nations and automatically qualifying the regular powerhouses. Remove group games and go straight knock out and the Olympics can keep a similar number of games while widening the field to make up for automatic qualified teams.
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International players always played the Eurobasket, the difference is that there are more international players in the NBA. But nobody is going to extinguish Eurobasket because a dozen players, who can't opt not to play, have a long season in the NBA. FIBA won't change their competitions because of the interests of NBA owners. If they're worried, they can short the NBA season or stop hiring players who want to play for their NTs.
Yes I don't think they have any shot at restructuring the schedule and qualifiers for Eurobasket or equivalent competitions.
I think they can make the Olympics and World Basketball Champs more NBA friendly though ... and they can do that by limiting qualifiers to lowly basketball nations and automatically qualifying the regular powerhouses. Remove group games and go straight knock out and the Olympics can keep a similar number of games while widening the field to make up for automatic qualified teams.
Yeah, I see your point. But I believe that's pretty much what already happens. 9 teams didn't have to play a single qualifying game. That's 75% of the spots.
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International players always played the Eurobasket, the difference is that there are more international players in the NBA. But nobody is going to extinguish Eurobasket because a dozen players, who can't opt not to play, have a long season in the NBA. FIBA won't change their competitions because of the interests of NBA owners. If they're worried, they can short the NBA season or stop hiring players who want to play for their NTs.
Yes I don't think they have any shot at restructuring the schedule and qualifiers for Eurobasket or equivalent competitions.
I think they can make the Olympics and World Basketball Champs more NBA friendly though ... and they can do that by limiting qualifiers to lowly basketball nations and automatically qualifying the regular powerhouses. Remove group games and go straight knock out and the Olympics can keep a similar number of games while widening the field to make up for automatic qualified teams.
Yeah, I see your point. But I believe that's pretty much what already happens. 9 teams didn't have to play a single qualifying game. That's 75% of the spots.
Didn't the US have to qualify through playing the America's?
And other nations from similar tournaments? That's 7 places decided by qualifiers.
Then you have the wild card tournament to round it out.
You only have the host and previous Champion automatically qualify. I think that's right, not 100% sure.
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Didn't the US have to qualify through playing the America's?
And other nations from similar tournaments? That's 7 places decided by qualifiers.
Then you have the wild card tournament to round it out.
You only have the host and previous Champion automatically qualify. I think that's right, not 100% sure.
Yes, but FIBA Americas Championship is the equivalent to the Eurobasket, it's not exactly a qualifying tournament. They're legit international tournaments. I don't think FIBA should allow teams to by-pass continental tournaments, qualifying tournaments and still have a place guaranteed in the Olympics. The World and Olympic Champs, okay, maybe even the finalists from both competitions, but why a team like the US?
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Didn't the US have to qualify through playing the America's?
And other nations from similar tournaments? That's 7 places decided by qualifiers.
Then you have the wild card tournament to round it out.
You only have the host and previous Champion automatically qualify. I think that's right, not 100% sure.
Yes, but FIBA Americas Championship is the equivalent to the Eurobasket, it's not exactly a qualifying tournament. They're legit international tournaments. I don't think FIBA should allow teams to by-pass continental tournaments, qualifying tournaments and still have a place guaranteed in the Olympics. The World and Olympic Champs, okay, maybe even the finalists from both competitions, but why a team like the US?
Automatic qualification for everyone who makes the quarter finals or makes the round before the quarters. Make everyone below that qualify.
I'll be quite happy if we never have an America's competition again or the Asia/Africa/Oceanic games. Eurobasket seems a bit different because of the higher number of quality teams/players and higher level of interest.
If qualification isn't dependent on these other tournaments that doesn't mean those tourney's have to end. It just means you don't have to have your best players playing each year to ensure you get to go to the big dance. Let those competitions live on their merits and develop their own persona.
I'd also be quite happy dumping the world basketball champs (I know it won't happen, I'm just saying I'd be happy without it). It's a dull tournament and the Olympics is more important, there's really no need for it.
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Didn't the US have to qualify through playing the America's?
And other nations from similar tournaments? That's 7 places decided by qualifiers.
Then you have the wild card tournament to round it out.
You only have the host and previous Champion automatically qualify. I think that's right, not 100% sure.
Yes, but FIBA Americas Championship is the equivalent to the Eurobasket, it's not exactly a qualifying tournament. They're legit international tournaments. I don't think FIBA should allow teams to by-pass continental tournaments, qualifying tournaments and still have a place guaranteed in the Olympics. The World and Olympic Champs, okay, maybe even the finalists from both competitions, but why a team like the US?
Automatic qualification for everyone who makes the quarter finals or makes the round before the quarters. Make everyone below that qualify.
I'll be quite happy if we never have an America's competition again or the Asia/Africa/Oceanic games. Eurobasket seems a bit different because of the higher number of quality teams/players and higher level of interest.
If qualification isn't dependent on these other tournaments that doesn't mean those tourney's have to end. It just means you don't have to have your best players playing each year to ensure you get to go to the big dance. Let those competitions live on their merits and develop their own persona.
I'd also be quite happy dumping the world basketball champs (I know it won't happen, I'm just saying I'd be happy without it). It's a dull tournament and the Olympics is more important, there's really no need for it.
Well, yeah, I wouln't miss other continental tournaments besides Eurobasket. But no way FIBA is doing this, they make money from these tournaments, there are fans to watch them. To qualify so many teams via performance in the past Olympics would be unfair, I think. Four years is a lot of time.
In the end, I'm all for allowing the players to decide if they can handle the extra games or not. Ilgauskas never plays for Lithuania, for example. I also think that NBA teams (and European ones) should have the possibility of making contracts with clauses that would allow them to forbid their employess of playing international games. Fair solution to both parts, I think.
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Back to a fight of Patriotism versus your job...? I agree that we as fans love to see our NBA players play, and hate seeing them injured. That's obvious. But every athlete's dream is to be the best of the best. And as an American you're raised to be proud of where you're from. So, on a personal level in the bodies of our NBA stars, they(the ones that choose to play) are just living THEIR dream to represent their country. We can't be greedy fans and expect players to live NBA 24/7 365..It's just not right. That's like if you work in the general public such as retail, and a regular customer to your store sees you out in public elsewhere, and they expect you to stay and answer their questions about your store's products. It's rude and ridiculous. NBA player are signed for seasons if you think about it. The summer time is their off time to do whatever...Olympics, Get their degrees, spend time with the family, go out of the country for vacation..Whatever. Leave it alone. The only issue I have that I agree with Cuban is the patriotism part of seeing players like Becky Hammen(spelled wrong) and Chris Kaman go and play for countries that they have no close decent from. If your parents aren't full blooded countrymen of that team, then you don't qualify(IMO). For them to go and play just to play and say they played (and to make some more money) is wrong. Its also wrong for that country to accept them just to try and win? That's not being proud of your country to take foreigners and add them to your squad in hopes of winning. These players are crying that they weren't invited to play for the US or weren't guaranteed to make the final 12...SO! Take the hint that you might be good, but your not good enough to be considered the best of 12 in your league.
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Thanks for the topic, it's really sad to see the game I love so much, seen in such a different light from a man who thinks that Dirks collapse comes from his summer competition. His thoughts undoubtedly stem from the idea that Germany's success hinged on Dirk playing was moot. They could not compete regardless. Cubans business savvy is well known and was used to its fullest to describe his own personal grief to his current dilemma with Dirk. To ask someone not to play based on his potential loss is understandable. To not see the side of an athlete who is participating in the greatest sporting event in the world is unconscionable, and unscrupulous. To be asked by ones nation, to represent the people, land and ancestors would be an easy decision for most, and a difficult one for the few that decline.
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I think the Olympics lost it's true meaning when Professional Athletes were allowed to compete. I know many countries, in essence, used the equivalent of our professionals, but I enjoyed the olympics more when we sent college players. I do not think our Pro Basketball players should compete and to me it's just a matter of common sense. These guys beat up their bodies during their season and need time to heal. They have a great chance of getting badly injured in the Olympics because they are playing hurt when the go into it. They are being paid alot of money by their teams and we as fans want to see them play NBA ball when they are at their best. This especially applies to teams that go far into the playoffs. This is probably silly, but perhaps a compromise can be made by only letting players from NBA lottery teams compete. They are not the best players and could probably improve their skills. This would help them and their teams and would give our country representation. We'd probably lose, but I don't think the original purpose of the Olympics was to win at all costs. It was to get people from different countries to compete and get to know each other.
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I think the Olympics lost it's true meaning when Professional Athletes were allowed to compete. I know many countries, in essence, used the equivalent of our professionals, but I enjoyed the olympics more when we sent college players. I do not think our Pro Basketball players should compete and to me it's just a matter of common sense. These guys beat up their bodies during their season and need time to heal. They have a great chance of getting badly injured in the Olympics because they are playing hurt when the go into it. They are being paid alot of money by their teams and we as fans want to see them play NBA ball when they are at their best. This especially applies to teams that go far into the playoffs. This is probably silly, but perhaps a compromise can be made by only letting players from NBA lottery teams compete. They are not the best players and could probably improve their skills. This would help them and their teams and would give our country representation. We'd probably lose, but I don't think the original purpose of the Olympics was to win at all costs. It was to get people from different countries to compete and get to know each other.
Its lost meaning for you. To me the ancient Greeks never sent their worse athletes. It was a source of huge pride for the ridiculously competitive City States to win an event. I cant imagine Sparta sending a weak boxer to fight against an Athenian. The 70's were awful to watch because these crazy Soviet clock men were playing our boysback in 72'.
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The NBA is a huge money business, and it makes its money from fans. Do you think for a minute that fans, just in the U.S. alone, would tolerate it if the NBA attempted to stop its players from entering the Olympics?
Cuban is concerned about the financial side of this, of course. He doesn't want to lose money by losing his players in the Olympics. Well he would lose a lot more money if fans boycotted the games because the league was trying to do something like this.
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I used to love the Olympics, but I agree with Cuban and I'll go one step further and say they should cancel them and start over.
For this country, it's all about corporate America, not about the pure competition of the world's greatest amateur athletes. I'm not opposed to the pro's being there btw -- if corporate America would just back and off instead of viewing the Olympics as the competition for the next great pitch person for their products.
Also, with the Soviet Union and Iron Curtain gone, there is no more bad guy -- unless you want to say it's us -- backed by corporate America.
The Olympics have totally lost their way though I may watch the basketball to see if someone can knock us off. But this 'boy ain't America great' concept pushed by our Olympic sponsors just has to go. We've taken the place of the the hard line communist countries as the one everyone loves to beat.
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cmburrill: Its lost meaning for you. To me the ancient Greeks never sent their worse athletes. It was a source of huge pride for the ridiculously competitive City States to win an event. I cant imagine Sparta sending a weak boxer to fight against an Athenian.
These were not Professonials. Our boxers and swimmers aren't professional. Etc. I'm just say that allowing Pros to play in some of the sports has ruined it for me and taken away the true meaning of the Olympics.
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I think the Olympics and college sports are in a weird situation now, because some people are making money and others aren't. For example UNC, Duke, and little Farleigh Dickinson are in three totally different money situations. UNC and Duke athletes generate millions and don't get a penny, but in a manner of speaking it is more fair for the UNC player to not get paid than the Dukie cause UNC is a public school. No profit. FDU is also private, and if they get to the Tourney that's awesome, but FDU makes probably no money on their program, and probably operate at a loss. Maybe the fairest way would be to take all the money that college ball generates and give each player a share. It's not right for TV guys and the whole rest of the world to earn billions and the players get demonized for taking gifts or something. That's why I hope Brandon Jennings is very successful in Europe.
The Olympics are similar, but again I don't think Moldova makes nearly as much as the US. Again maybe all players could get a share. If it's really about peace yadda yadda then they need to donate all profit to UNICEF and Mother Terresa's nuns and whatnot. That's not happening.
High school sports are up next. Ever wonder how much money is generated by the MCDs All America game? I do.
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cmburrill: Its lost meaning for you. To me the ancient Greeks never sent their worse athletes. It was a source of huge pride for the ridiculously competitive City States to win an event. I cant imagine Sparta sending a weak boxer to fight against an Athenian.
These were not Professonials. Our boxers and swimmers aren't professional. Etc. I'm just say that allowing Pros to play in some of the sports has ruined it for me and taken away the true meaning of the Olympics.
In the Olympics, the only sport in which no professionals compete is boxing (and most of them are faux amateurs, they get paid to compete). In every other sport, the best athletes in the world are playing (besides soccer, mostly because soccer is so big). Where did you get the idea that swimmers aren't professionals?
If allowing pros to play has ruined it for you, it's has been a long time since you enjoyed the Olympics. When the modern Olympics games were created, only amateurs were allowed because of elitist reasons. The "professionals" were basically sports instrutors or gymn teachers, and Coubertin didn't want people who needed sports to make a living (or, in fact, that needed to work to make a living) playing in the Olympics. I think that mindset is clearly outdated.
The Olympics are great because the best athletes in the world are competing. Who would want to see some random guys running the 100 meters in 14 seconds?
And you wouldn't be able to send college players to the basketball tournament anyway, because they wouldn't qualify. And the Olympics baskebtall tournament without the US would be a shame, like the table tennis without the chineses or the soccer without the brazilians.
I really don't see what's the problem with allowing the players and the teams to decide by themselves.
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Cuban couldn't be more correct. Cuban is a scumbag but he is absolutely right about this. The olympics haven't been about "national pride" in decades.
Owners assume 100% of the risk for an event that has at least as good a chance of being fixed as it doesn't.
Respectfully, Schupac: If they're not boycotting NBA games which are fixed via the dumpstering of the rulebook, I doubt the "fans" would boycott the NBA if the NBA was smart enough not to compromise their biggest draws in a meaningless, corrupt glorified pickup game.
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iowa plowboy - I disagree. If there is one thing that can hurt a business in this country it is being viewed us unpatriotic.
If the NBA wouldn't let it's players compete for national pride, the media, and soon after the fans, would tear it apart.
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There's nothing patriotic about watching a tattoo-laden thug like Carmelo Anthony parading around in a pickup game. I see no correlation between a person who promotes criminal activity and national pride. This should be an opportunity for our best young amateur players to showcase themselves. Not a forum for Anthony's and Kidd's character rehabilitation and yet another showcase for Kobe, the reluctant angry player ;D, and the primadonna. The owners assume 100% of the risk for this collossal stupidity in the name of "patroitism".
I'll venture a pretty safe guess that the vast majority of NBA fans could care less about this meaningless event. However, if the primadonna, Bryant, or any other prominent NBA player on that (or any other "olympic" roster) goes down and their team goes from contending to mediocre......there is nothing the media is going to be able to do to get them to buy tickets.
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There's nothing patriotic about watching a tattoo-laden thug like Carmelo Anthony parading around in a pickup game. I see no correlation between a person who promotes criminal activity and national pride. This should be an opportunity for our best young amateur players to showcase themselves. Not a forum for Anthony's and Kidd's character rehabilitation and yet another showcase for Kobe, the reluctant angry player ;D, and the primadonna. The owners assume 100% of the risk for this collossal stupidity in the name of "patroitism".
I'll venture a pretty safe guess that the vast majority of NBA fans could care less about this meaningless event. However, if the primadonna, Bryant, or any other prominent NBA player on that (or any other "olympic" roster) goes down and their team goes from contending to mediocre......there is nothing the media is going to be able to do to get them to buy tickets.
<----- extra late reply guy
Iowa I think your vitriol is not shared by most fans, or Americans in general. Some people may not like Carmelo for character issues, but the majority aren't even aware of those issues. But if the an ownership group attempted to prevent a player, any player, from participating in the Olympics it would be slammed.
I'm not talking about personal opinion here. I'm talking about business. And if the NBA made it standard for owners to deny their players to enter into the Olympics, the NBA would suffer in fan perception, which is something they already pay lots of attention to.
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There's nothing patriotic about watching a tattoo-laden thug like Carmelo Anthony parading around in a pickup game. I see no correlation between a person who promotes criminal activity and national pride. This should be an opportunity for our best young amateur players to showcase themselves. Not a forum for Anthony's and Kidd's character rehabilitation and yet another showcase for Kobe, the reluctant angry player ;D, and the primadonna. The owners assume 100% of the risk for this collossal stupidity in the name of "patroitism".
I'll venture a pretty safe guess that the vast majority of NBA fans could care less about this meaningless event. However, if the primadonna, Bryant, or any other prominent NBA player on that (or any other "olympic" roster) goes down and their team goes from contending to mediocre......there is nothing the media is going to be able to do to get them to buy tickets.
<----- extra late reply guy
Iowa I think your vitriol is not shared by most fans, or Americans in general. Some people may not like Carmelo for character issues, but the majority aren't even aware of those issues. But if the an ownership group attempted to prevent a player, any player, from participating in the Olympics it would be slammed.
I'm not talking about personal opinion here. I'm talking about business. And if the NBA made it standard for owners to deny their players to enter into the Olympics, the NBA would suffer in fan perception, which is something they already pay lots of attention to.
I would contend that the NBA would suffer a lot more if Yao, the primadonna, or Kobe goes down because they're playing 12 months out of the year than any fan "perception" negativity. The owners assume all of the risk in this "competition". The league reaps the benefits unless something happens to the players...Then everybody loses.
But I will never associate Anthony with patroitism.
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Well, let's remove Carmelo entirely from the conversation.
Yao Ming did go down for the second half of the season. Did the NBA suffer? Yao Ming did play in the Olympics, and everyone is agreeing how great it is for the NBA to grow it's fan base with millions of new Chinese fans.
Not to mention these same fans are now seeing players like Kobe and Lebron for the first time in their own country.
Many people credit the original dream team with jumpstarting international interest in basketball. Which now produces a worldwide fanbase instead of a national fanbase.
It is simply good for the NBA to have it's best players go to the Olympics.
And, I still maintain it would be much, much worse for the NBA to deal with the public backlash of keeping players from competing for their nation than it EVER would for having to deal with 1 star being injured.... POSSIBLY.
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Well, let's remove Carmelo entirely from the conversation.
Yao Ming did go down for the second half of the season. Did the NBA suffer? Yao Ming did play in the Olympics, and everyone is agreeing how great it is for the NBA to grow it's fan base with millions of new Chinese fans.
Not to mention these same fans are now seeing players like Kobe and Lebron for the first time in their own country.
Many people credit the original dream team with jumpstarting international interest in basketball. Which now produces a worldwide fanbase instead of a national fanbase.
It is simply good for the NBA to have it's best players go to the Olympics.
And, I still maintain it would be much, much worse for the NBA to deal with the public backlash of keeping players from competing for their nation than it EVER would for having to deal with 1 star being injured.... POSSIBLY.
It maybe good for the NBA, but its not good for the individual teams. If I were a season ticket holder, I would want to know that my star player isn't exhausted or worse injured due to non NBA play. I believe that's Cuban's position and it makes sense to me.
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Well, let's remove Carmelo entirely from the conversation.
Yao Ming did go down for the second half of the season. Did the NBA suffer? Yao Ming did play in the Olympics, and everyone is agreeing how great it is for the NBA to grow it's fan base with millions of new Chinese fans.
Not to mention these same fans are now seeing players like Kobe and Lebron for the first time in their own country.
Many people credit the original dream team with jumpstarting international interest in basketball. Which now produces a worldwide fanbase instead of a national fanbase.
It is simply good for the NBA to have it's best players go to the Olympics.
And, I still maintain it would be much, much worse for the NBA to deal with the public backlash of keeping players from competing for their nation than it EVER would for having to deal with 1 star being injured.... POSSIBLY.
It maybe good for the NBA, but its not good for the individual teams. If I were a season ticket holder, I would want to know that my star player isn't exhausted or worse injured due to non NBA play. I believe that's Cuban's position and it makes sense to me.
Yeah, it makes sense to me as well. What I don't understand is his whinning. Why doesn't he just sign contracts with players that don't allow them to play international games? If such contracts are not allowed, lobby the NBA to allow them. I'm pretty sure that for the right premium, most players would sign Cuban wouldn't be forced to sign players who would insist to play for their NTs. This way, it just seems he doesn't want to put his money where his mouth is.
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Marc Cuban the idiot owner for the Mavs? ugh no.
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Marc Cuban the idiot owner for the Mavs? ugh no.
Oh man, your picture bother me :-\
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Well, let's remove Carmelo entirely from the conversation.
Yao Ming did go down for the second half of the season. Did the NBA suffer? Yao Ming did play in the Olympics, and everyone is agreeing how great it is for the NBA to grow it's fan base with millions of new Chinese fans.
Not to mention these same fans are now seeing players like Kobe and Lebron for the first time in their own country.
Many people credit the original dream team with jumpstarting international interest in basketball. Which now produces a worldwide fanbase instead of a national fanbase.
It is simply good for the NBA to have it's best players go to the Olympics.
And, I still maintain it would be much, much worse for the NBA to deal with the public backlash of keeping players from competing for their nation than it EVER would for having to deal with 1 star being injured.... POSSIBLY.
It maybe good for the NBA, but its not good for the individual teams. If I were a season ticket holder, I would want to know that my star player isn't exhausted or worse injured due to non NBA play. I believe that's Cuban's position and it makes sense to me.
Yeah, it makes sense to me as well. What I don't understand is his whinning. Why doesn't he just sign contracts with players that don't allow them to play international games? If such contracts are not allowed, lobby the NBA to allow them. I'm pretty sure that for the right premium, most players would sign Cuban wouldn't be forced to sign players who would insist to play for their NTs. This way, it just seems he doesn't want to put his money where his mouth is.
I like the idea
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Mark Cuban has kind of answered a question I have had all along which is why USA BBall has not been on NBC or even had highlights being shown.
It sounds a little too conspiratorial though. NBC is a afraid to promote the NBA because it might take away from their own sports product. I don't really understand it though at all. Wouldn't the ratings be at their highest if NBC shows a 'popular' sport like basketball. Isn't the bottom line the most important things with the Olympics and television?
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Mark Cuban has kind of answered a question I have had all along which is why USA BBall has not been on NBC or even had highlights being shown.
It sounds a little too conspiratorial though. NBC is a afraid to promote the NBA because it might take away from their own sports product. I don't really understand it though at all. Wouldn't the ratings be at their highest if NBC shows a 'popular' sport like basketball. Isn't the bottom line the most important things with the Olympics and television?
I wasn't aware that NBC had any sports product to speak of.
NBC and objectivity is an oxymoron in the highest sense. They probably are arrogant enough to think that they'll maintain ratings without basketball.
"Yao Ming did go down for the second half of the season. Did the NBA suffer?"
I would suggest checking attendance for the Rockets' away games to figure that out. Long term, after watching Yao bent over at every break after he already broke down last season, I'd say, long term, it's absolutely devastating to both the Rockets and the NBA.
I rarely, if ever agree with Cuban. But he couldn't be more on the right side of this issue. It isn't the NBA who has to continue to write the checks to these players if they get injured in this charade. If Novitski goes down, Cuban won't be able to give tickets away for what will happen to his team.
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Mark Cuban has kind of answered a question I have had all along which is why USA BBall has not been on NBC or even had highlights being shown.
It sounds a little too conspiratorial though. NBC is a afraid to promote the NBA because it might take away from their own sports product. I don't really understand it though at all. Wouldn't the ratings be at their highest if NBC shows a 'popular' sport like basketball. Isn't the bottom line the most important things with the Olympics and television?
I wasn't aware that NBC had any sports product to speak of.
NBC and objectivity is an oxymoron in the highest sense. They probably are arrogant enough to think that they'll maintain ratings without basketball.
"Yao Ming did go down for the second half of the season. Did the NBA suffer?"
I would suggest checking attendance for the Rockets' away games to figure that out. Long term, after watching Yao bent over at every break after he already broke down last season, I'd say, long term, it's absolutely devastating to both the Rockets and the NBA.
I rarely, if ever agree with Cuban. But he couldn't be more on the right side of this issue. It isn't the NBA who has to continue to write the checks to these players if they get injured in this charade. If Novitski goes down, Cuban won't be able to give tickets away for what will happen to his team.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:2007-08_Houston_Rockets_season_game_log
There was a marginal at best drop off in home game attendance.
Here are some links supporting the idea that sending the Olympic players to China has increased market value for the NBA:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=awOu2_fPZ0UU&refer=amsports%20%20?rss=true
http://olympics.scmp.com/Article.aspx?id=927§ion=spotlight
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2006-08-07-stern-china_x.htm
http://www.bizofbasketball.com/?view=article&id=507%3Anba-opening-stores-in-china-next-month-using-olympics-to-boost-interest&Itemid=1&option=com_content
The last one is probably my favorite.
So, like I was saying, the overall gain for the league far far outweighs the potential loss of one player. Sure, the Rockets suffered financially when Yao went down. How much money do you think they make off of Rockets gear sold in China? I'm guessing it more than a little bit outweighs that amount.
If the NBA allowed self-interested or short-sighted owners to prohibit their best players from participating in the Olympics, it would be a PR nightmare and it would greatly slow the international growth of the league.
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OK this isn't fair I finally make a good point and everyone runs away.
That's it, from now on I'm not arguing anything unless I know I'm wrong.