CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: wdleehi on July 15, 2008, 09:31:02 PM
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3491156
The Los Angeles Clippers have agreed in principal on a trade with the Denver Nuggets to acquire center Marcus Camby as their replacement for Elton Brand, according to NBA front-office sources.
Sources told ESPN.com that the Clippers will only have to surrender a second-round pick to acquire Camby, who is being jettisoned by the Nuggets purely for payroll relief.
I am going to say it now, I don't think the Nuggets make the playoffs. Without Camby to clean up the lack of perimeter defense and AI playing the passing lane, I think we are looking at the worse defense in the NBA.
Clippers, way to panic.
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I can't believe what I just read on ESPN.Reports are Camby was traded to clippers for 2nd rounder. I'm scratching my head right now if im Denver.Looks like a pure financial move but still thats just nuts.
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Camby for a #2? Not a bad trade for the Clips, especially since Camby only has two years left on a reasonable contract.
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not a suitable replacement for Brand, but I'd take him any day of the week (and twice on Sunday) over Zach Randolph
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Wish Camby was in the last year of his contract.
We'd be able to pick up Camby for the vet min when the Clips don't make the play-offs :P.
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why didn't the celtics pull that one.. that would've been a great trade for any team
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This is a good deal for the Clippers, much better than that god awful Randolph deal that would have only brought trouble. Camby would have won back to back DPOY awards if not for KG. Kaman and Camby make one of the better frontcourt duos in the league.
Camby, Kaman, Thorton, Mobley, Davis is not a bad starting five to have. They could make the playoffs if they score a decent back up SG with their MLE.
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why didn't the celtics pull that one.. that would've been a great trade for any team
We didn't have the cap space. The only teams with room to do this were L.A., Memphis, and maybe Golden State (I'm not sure what their numbers are right now).
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why didn't the celtics pull that one.. that would've been a great trade for any team
Because with the Clippers well under the cap, they are not held accountable to the salary match restrictions that teams over the cap are.
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Wow. Only a second round pick. Camby is not far removed from being defensive player of the year. I guess the Clips felt they couldn't pry away Josh Smith. Teams are going to want his contract next year so maybe they can get a little bit more in return later on if they decide to trade him. Carmelo and AI can't be happy about this.
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Interesting move by the Clips. I'd have waited to see if I could get Okafor or Smith first though. Can Camby play PF?
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why didn't the celtics pull that one.. that would've been a great trade for any team
We didn't have the cap space. The only teams with room to do this were L.A., Memphis, and maybe Golden State (I'm not sure what their numbers are right now).
over under on this question being asked in the next 24 hours on this blog? I'm gonna set at +/-12
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sowhere edgar is crying for not having money to pay Camby
buyout deal candidate?
is Danny that smart?
hihihi who knows
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hahahaha NY Knicks! You blew your only chance to get rid of Randolph's contract. The only way you get rid of him now is if you take back other bad contracts.
Nice no brainer move for the Clips. And if they don't like Camby, they'll be able to get more than a second rounder in a year if they want to move him.
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Let's get the buyout out of our heads.
The Clippers did not just trade cap space for Camby just to buy him out.
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why didn't the celtics pull that one.. that would've been a great trade for any team
We didn't have the cap space. The only teams with room to do this were L.A., Memphis, and maybe Golden State (I'm not sure what their numbers are right now).
i think the salary cap is set at a ridiculously low amount. has any team actually been good, say make it to the conference finals without being over? if not, that it proves that it's impossible to win while staying under the cap.
this trade to me seems more loopsided than the gasol trade... i mean at least trade him for a protected 1st round pick.
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why didn't the celtics pull that one.. that would've been a great trade for any team
We didn't have the cap space. The only teams with room to do this were L.A., Memphis, and maybe Golden State (I'm not sure what their numbers are right now).
i think the salary cap is set at a ridiculously low amount. has any team actually been good, say make it to the conference finals without being over? if not, that it proves that it's impossible to win while staying under the cap.
How much money do you want them to set aside for 15 guys?
The problem isn't the amount of the cap, it is that all contracts are guaranteed. Kills player movement.
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I think the more interesting question is if the Clips keep him. Camby is not a PF, cannot put up the points that Elton did and is a great veteran presence with a reasonable contract.
Would love to see the Clips flip him Marion or use him in a sign and trade
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why didn't the celtics pull that one.. that would've been a great trade for any team
We didn't have the cap space. The only teams with room to do this were L.A., Memphis, and maybe Golden State (I'm not sure what their numbers are right now).
i think the salary cap is set at a ridiculously low amount. has any team actually been good, say make it to the conference finals without being over? if not, that it proves that it's impossible to win while staying under the cap.
How much money do you want them to set aside for 15 guys?
The problem isn't the amount of the cap, it is that all contracts are guaranteed. Kills player movement.
Yeah. Teams will spend above the cap, no matter what it is. Set a $75 million cap, and player salaries would just be pumped up by teams giving ridiculous contracts to marginal players, because they have room to spend.
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That's a solid trade by the Clippers -- they would have had trouble prying away Josh Smith or Emeka Okafur (but I did want to see them try), and they are lucky they aren't stuck with Zach Randolph. LOL at the Knicks who were trying to play hardball with the Clippers....
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.................... Are you kidding me? If I'm a Nuggets fan right now, I'm suicidal. You don't trade Marcus Camby, who only has 2 years left on his contract for a total of $15.7 million, for a second round pick.
Are you kidding me?
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Camby is fools gold and at this point of his career the most overrated defensive player ever. He plays for defensive stats and in comparision to KG who plays for defensive stops.
Denver let Seattle of all teams drop 151 on them.
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I assume that with the trade Kaman will move over to PF with Camby starting at C. They are still a little shallow at PF/C (one has to wonder about Camby's durability), but at least Baron Davis is a happier camper than before. Not sure how much room they have left under the cap, but they still have the MLE in any case to go after a big man to provide depth (Skinner? J. Howard?).
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I think Melo will be on the block for an expiring contract by this time next year. Camby's gone, AI expires next summer and there isn't a GM this side of Isiah Thomas dumb enough to trade for KMart's or Nene's contracts. They move Melo for an expiring contract around this time next year or soon and they are in the Class of 2010 sweeps.
Those KMart and Nene contracts are team rebuilder killers. This Nuggets franchise could be horribly bad for a long time after next year because Kobe and AI being the main FAs next summer there isn't a chance in hell of AI returning to the Nuggets. Best hope will be a sign and trade.
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Hey ROY,
lets say Camby makes between 7-9 million a year, does that leaves the Clippers with something like 3-5 million under the cap to spend on a free agent AND a full MLE as well?
Please answer if you get a chance.
Thanks.
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This trade again shows how much financial problems teams are having. I think the problems are being understated by the teams and the league. Camby just has too reasonable of a contract and too much skill to be traded for only a single 2. We are seeing a lot of teams (besides just Phoenix) go to great lengths to cut down salary. Players should really worry about getting greedy because they might not have a job.
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I think the more interesting question is if the Clips keep him. Camby is not a PF, cannot put up the points that Elton did and is a great veteran presence with a reasonable contract.
Would love to see the Clips flip him Marion or use him in a sign and trade
I actually think he is a good fit next to Kaman. Camby can cover any PF in the league, and offensively, Camby can play the high post to Kaman on the low post. They could be a hell of a "twin towers" combination.
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Clips should be interesting to watch, at first thought the Camby-Kaman frontline seems a little weird but I think it makes sense considering that the k-man is a legit post-up threat and Camby can complement that with his face-up jumpers, tip-ins, alley-oops, etc. Camby is overrated defensively but the dude is a great off the ball shot blocker and should be at least as good as Brand on the defensive end.
If there is not another move for the Nugs then they are going to be a mess next year. Carmelo and AI aren't going to be good soldiers if they think the organization is just trying to save bucks.
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Hey ROY,
lets say Camby makes between 7-9 million a year, does that leaves the Clippers with something like 3-5 million under the cap to spend on a free agent AND a full MLE as well?
Please answer if you get a chance.
Thanks.
I'm not sure about where they are in terms of the salary cap right now, but they don't get to use the MLE or the LLE. Generally speaking, teams below the cap don't have access to the MLE (really, it's teams more than about $7 million under the cap don't have access to the MLE, but that gets it all kinds of technicalities and complications). Because the Clips had a substantial amount of cap room, they wouldn't have access to the MLE (and it's not something they regain this year if they go over the cap, either.)
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Camby is going to be in paradise getting away from the thugster and Anthony. Thornton and Kaman actually play defense. It'll make them a pretty formidable front line and Camby may even get a shot or two per game.
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I thought I knew a decent amount about trading rules, but what happened to the one about salaries matching???
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Hey ROY,
lets say Camby makes between 7-9 million a year, does that leaves the Clippers with something like 3-5 million under the cap to spend on a free agent AND a full MLE as well?
Please answer if you get a chance.
Thanks.
I'm not sure about where they are in terms of the salary cap right now, but they don't get to use the MLE or the LLE. Generally speaking, teams below the cap don't have access to the MLE (really, it's teams more than about $7 million under the cap don't have access to the MLE, but that gets it all kinds of technicalities and complications). Because the Clips had a substantial amount of cap room, they wouldn't have access to the MLE (and it's not something they regain this year if they go over the cap, either.)
Okay, thanks a lot for clearing that up for me. +1
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I thought I knew a decent amount about trading rules, but what happened to the one about salaries matching???
the clippers are under the cap and thus can absorb his contract without going over it.
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nice move for LA.
Davis should be happy.
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This is what happens when you have 4 max contracts. Denver has been in financial troubles for a long time, they were paying $78 million for 8 players under contract, so they probably needed to do this. Still jaw-dropping...
I'm not Camby's biggest fan, but this is a very solid move for Clippers. In 2010, they'll have $26 million out of the books, a veteran pg and a young core with Kaman, Gordon and Thornton, hopefully with some playoff experience. Some good arguments to lure one of the top free-agents. Their fans have reasons to feel confident about the direction of their franchise - all the 8 of them. Those guys in Colorado... not so much.
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Besides Denver and Donnie Walsh getting screwed by this deal, Okafor, Iguadala, and Josh Smith just struck out. Who's going to offer them big contracts now that their teams would either match or not. They're either going to have to settle for less or take the qulaifying offers.
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Hmm, not sure what to think about this one from either end.
For Denver, if this trade is indeed toward the end of making cap room, that implies they've given up on winning a championship in the near term. If I'm AI or (especially) Melo, I am not too pleased.
On the other hand, if either this move is a prelude to something bigger in store, or, if there was an unannounced issue with Camby in the locker room, then I guess this move is for the better from their standpoint, both short and long term.
Time is the only (v)indicator, but I'll go out on a limb and say they do not make the playoffs next season.
For LAC, economically speaking, this is a great pickup given their needs. While Camby certainly does not replace Brand's productivity, all they gave up was a 2nd round pick next year. Not too shabby.
That said, I'll continue hanging on that pretty sturdy limb and predict they too do not make the playoffs this year.
All in all, I'm not too impressed either way.
(For the record, here's my WC playoff prediction - of course barring any major trades:)
LAL
NO
UTAH
PHX
HOU
SAS
DAL
POR
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A good move but I don't think the Clippers make the playoffs.
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Assuming BD's new contract of 5/$65m is for %13m, the Clips are $9m under the cap. If his contract is backloaded, they would have a bit more room.
Stan Kroenke, the Nugget's billionaire owner, just stabbed every one of his team's fans in the back. His wife, daughter of Wal Mart founder Sam Walton, is one of the richest persons in the US.
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they are an Okafor, Jsmith, Iguadola, Deng, away from being a title contender. Any one of those players would do it.
Can they afford one of them?
I think with the recent Brand slight, the owner is in screw it mode. Josh Smith on this team would be awesome.
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I still think the Clippers still have enough cap space to go after Deng or Iguadola and they will...Deng is likely the easier target...
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horrible move by denver.. honestly i think they could have got better for camby.
props to the clips this is robbery.
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This trade makes me think that the Nugs are going to deal Carmelo this summer and do a full rebuild. Could a deal to Miami for Marion and multiple first rounders be possible? The Nugs would get instant cap room next summer and the Heat would have a big 3 of their own in Wade, Carmelo, and Beasley.
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Good deal for the clippers! It gives them a nice big shot blocking band aid, at a nice price. If that team is healthy, they can be a heck of a lot of fun.
Denver is in a financial mess. Well, they asked for it, when they added Iverson to an already bloated payroll.
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I still think the Clippers still have enough cap space to go after Deng or Iguadola and they will...Deng is likely the easier target...
I'm getting a little worried about Mr. Paxon in Chicago. He slept on PJ Brown's expiring $10 million contract a few years ago. Then he trades the right to Lemarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas. And now he is sitting around hoping to low ball Deng and Gordon. On top of all of this, he hires first time head coach Vinny Del Negro to lead the team. Bulls fans, you better start complaining.
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Wow - i'm surprised Denver couldn't get the Minny pick or something.
Sigh.
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I still think the Clippers still have enough cap space to go after Deng or Iguadola and they will...Deng is likely the easier target...
wouldn't that be hilarious if brand left the clippers to go to the sixers only to find that iguadola, the 76's best player, leaves for la due to free agency? i can see it now: ai just pulled a brand :o
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The Clippers have acquired center Marcus Camby from the Nuggets in a move to create salary cap room for the Nuggets.
In return, the Nuggets have the right to switch 2nd-round draft picks in the 2010 draft with the Clippers.
The Nuggets will receive a $10 million trade exception due to the deal.
It can be used for up to a year from the day the trade is completed.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8348834?MSNHPHMA
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Who are the Denver big men now? Kmart, Nene, and who? Steven Hunter? Kleiza? That's it? Ouch. Bad time to be a Denver fan.
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Who are the Denver big men now? Kmart, Nene, and who? Steven Hunter? Kleiza? That's it? Ouch. Bad time to be a Denver fan.
i thought kmart got traded.. or was that just a rumour?
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Who are the Denver big men now? Kmart, Nene, and who? Steven Hunter? Kleiza? That's it? Ouch. Bad time to be a Denver fan.
i thought kmart got traded.. or was that just a rumour?
He's still there. I'd be shocked if they could trade him; he has quite possibly the worst contract in all of sports (and Nene's isn't far behind).
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i thought i heard about a potential deal a little while back....that's kinda how it goes sometimes. nobody could have guessed that the ultra atheletic high flying kmart would have turned into such a dud as soon as he left jersey...
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From ESPN's write-up:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3491156
The Clippers, sources said, also preserved an estimated $3 million in cap space to perhaps add another rotation player to their new core, which features the homegrown Davis as their new cornerstone, second-year swingman Al Thornton, recent draftee Eric Gordon and Kaman as Camby's new frontcourt sidekick. . . .
Exiling Camby for essentially no return was certainly not the Nuggets' preference, but finances forced their hand. . . . The Nuggets will now have more cushion to match potential offers to restricted free agent J.R. Smith if they choose.
Decent 8-man rotation for the Clips. Maybe one more player away from being a solid playoff team in the West.
Denver's got no frontcourt depth, with Najera and now Camby leaving town. They're really banking on Nene and Martin staying healthy for a full season.
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Who are the Denver big men now? Kmart, Nene, and who? Steven Hunter? Kleiza? That's it? Ouch. Bad time to be a Denver fan.
i thought kmart got traded.. or was that just a rumour?
He's still there. I'd be shocked if they could trade him; he has quite possibly the worst contract in all of sports (and Nene's isn't far behind).
Carl Pavano?
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Who are the Denver big men now? Kmart, Nene, and who? Steven Hunter? Kleiza? That's it? Ouch. Bad time to be a Denver fan.
i thought kmart got traded.. or was that just a rumour?
He's still there. I'd be shocked if they could trade him; he has quite possibly the worst contract in all of sports (and Nene's isn't far behind).
Carl Pavano?
Nah... he's only got around one year, $10 million left, right? Granted, he's doing nothing, but that's just a drop in the bucket compared to the three years, $46 million owed to Kmart.
You bring up a good point about baseball pitchers, though. Zito's contract is probably worse.
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The problem isn't the amount of the cap, it is that all contracts are guaranteed. Kills player movement.
I actually think that is the good thing about the NBA.
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I hope the Clips have enough cash left over to pick up some cheap free agents b/c their bench is looking bare, especially at SF position. Maybe Barnes will follow Davis and work for cheap, and Darius Miles for veteran minimum?
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Wow, Denver might break records for points allowed. They were horrible on D with Camby bailing them out every time, imagine what it will be like next year.
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Denver pays the price for grossely overpaying Kenyon Martin and to a larger extent NeNe in successive seasons.
Kiki Vandeweigh loves big man stiffs whcih has to be encouraging for Celtics fans considering he is now in New Jersey and has already brought in Najera, Yi, Brook Lopez
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Denver are going to be better next season without Camby
Clippers are going to be better next season after adding Camby but nowhere near enough to justify that idiotic trade.
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Denver are going to be better next season without Camby
Clippers are going to be better next season after adding Camby but nowhere near enough to justify that idiotic trade.
What's so idiotic about it? And how in the world are they going to be better without Camby? It's bad enough their perimeter defense stinks, now they have no one in the frontline to back up the perimeter gambles. Add that to the fact that they lost another decent defensive player in Najera...how will they be better? By playing Melo at the four?
And why is that trade "idiotic"? It wasn't great or anything, but Camby's deal is only for two years.
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look at it from a business point of view.
They are scraping the 8th spot in the west with camby. Plus they are luxury tax payers.
Why wouldn't they blow it up?
Still its hard to see how they will be good for a while.
Kenyon Martin and Nene's deals are cap killers and they are likely to lose JR smith
Im sure they could have got a first rounder for Camby having said that.
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The trade is idiotic for the Clippers because it locks them into that 35 win range and with Camby on board they've used up their cap space (the remaining figure is insignificant). They just wasted two years by adding Marcus Camby .... and those two years are likely to be the best performances from Baron Davis in his Clippers tenure.
Camby was the worst possible choice. That's the one they choose. Camby is a finishing touches type of acquisition, not a building block. The Clippers don't have enough talent to be a threat and they limited their ability to add talent by adding Camby.
They should have taken a chance on Josh Smith or Emeka Okafor. Both are better than Camby. Or Deng or Iggy.
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The most important big man on the Nuggets roster is Nene. Denver are going to be better next season because he's returning after missing nearly the entire season.
With Nene and K-Mart they've kept two very good defenders. Both are high quality one-on-one defenders, both play good post defense, both protect the rim, and both a good team defenders. Nene gives them a legit 6-11 260lb presence in the paint who can limit post scorers. Their interior D is going to be better without Camby.
Their perimeter defense is suspect. If Anthony Carter and Iverson are starting again next season it'll be difficult for them to improve there. They need to move both players. Carmelo Anthony on the other hand is improving as a defensive player and became their best perimeter defender (not saying much, still below par but better and close to mediocre) late last season. He's a guy who should improve more next season. Their perimeter defenders will take less chances without Camby back there which is a good thing because they're (a) awful at making that decision (b) Camby was more concerned with his box sheet than stopping the play. Their perimeter defense will still be bad but Camby's presence wasn't making much of a difference anyway.
Camby's selfish defensive ways hurt Denver consistently last season. He regularly stepped back and allowed penetration so he could come over late and attempt to block the shot, instead of getting in the way and denying the easy path to the rim in the first place. That gave up extra easy baskets and extra easy follow up buckets. He's also given up on boxing guys out and gives the opposition unnecessary extra possessions, especially considering how dominant a rebounder he can be when he's head is glued on straight. Camby is also a weak one-on-one defender who's a poor post defender. Opposing big men score on him easily and often, especially post players who have a field day with Camby.
Camby has the ability to be a defensive beast in this league but his efforts have been half-hearted (selfish too) and they've created nearly as many problems as they solved limiting his overall value as a defender.
Camby's offensive game has also become problematic. It's not that he can't do it, it's that he doesn't put in the effort to give his team anything on that end of the floor anymore. He just stands 20 feet from the rim. Last season was easily the most stagnant I've ever seen Camby offensively. He used to create problems with his activity and athleticism which meant the defense had to keep someone near him. Nowadays they just back off and leave him alone out there. He's coming off his lowest scoring year in four years (and under his career average) and his lowest FG% in 5 years (again under his career average). Things got even worse in the playoffs as he scored a pitiful 3 points a game where his lack of scoring/movement allowed the Lakers (Gasol) to send shot blockers down into the paint on all penetration limiting Camby's teammates.
Denver is going to be better than they were last season.
Now if they only started moving out Carter and Iverson .....
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If they go spend part of their MLE on say Ricky they could have a nice team this year.
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Great trade for both teams
The Clippers: have a short term solution and a valuable expiring contract after the season.
The Nuggets: obtain a year to use $10.1 million trade exception chip (Ron Artest?) and avoid 15.5 mill in luxury tax. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3491156)
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Anyone else see the possibility of AI being bought out?
Or packaged with Nene or Martin to get the salaries back into control and in position to rebuild?
Denver will have the worst defense in the NBA
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Anyone else see the possibility of AI being bought out?
No
Be interesting to see if they still resign him though ... I think he's already been having talks on an extension, wonder if that gets effected (it should, they should not resign him).
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The trade is idiotic for the Clippers because it locks them into that 35 win range and with Camby on board they've used up their cap space (the remaining figure is insignificant). They just wasted two years by adding Marcus Camby .... and those two years are likely to be the best performances from Baron Davis in his Clippers tenure.
Camby was the worst possible choice. That's the one they choose. Camby is a finishing touches type of acquisition, not a building block. The Clippers don't have enough talent to be a threat and they limited their ability to add talent by adding Camby.
They should have taken a chance on Josh Smith or Emeka Okafor. Both are better than Camby. Or Deng or Iggy.
There was a good chance that all of these guys resign with their respective teams and the Clips get nothing. They pick up Camby, who's a poor mans Garnett, and give up next to nothing for him. Not a championship team but none of the other free agents move them into that championship team either.
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The trade is idiotic for the Clippers because it locks them into that 35 win range and with Camby on board they've used up their cap space (the remaining figure is insignificant). They just wasted two years by adding Marcus Camby .... and those two years are likely to be the best performances from Baron Davis in his Clippers tenure.
Camby was the worst possible choice. That's the one they choose. Camby is a finishing touches type of acquisition, not a building block. The Clippers don't have enough talent to be a threat and they limited their ability to add talent by adding Camby.
They should have taken a chance on Josh Smith or Emeka Okafor. Both are better than Camby. Or Deng or Iggy.
There was a good chance that all of these guys resign with their respective teams and the Clips get nothing. They pick up Camby, who's a poor mans Garnett, and give up next to nothing for him. Not a championship team but none of the other free agents move them into that championship team either.
Then make the trade in three weeks time. The offer isn't going anywhere.
Even if it does fall off the table, who cares? They're not contending for a title and they're winning too many games to get a high lottery pick. What difference does it make? Very little.
They can always make another trade using their cap space at any time later in the offseason or during the season or next season. All those options they held ... vanished.
There was no need to jump on an offer that doesn't help you enough. That was dumb.
A Camby acquisition is much like a Corey Maggette-GSW move, only Camby is far older and has no chance of being a high end player when the Clippers get their act together. It's too early to add a player like these, they're not large enough difference makers and that's exactly what each team needed and they didn't get it.
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Wonder if they offer Kaman and Thomas for Marion at this point.
Miami needs a center and Marion brings them the big name type they are probably looking for.
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I wonder if Denver now uses the trade exception and a piece (Klieza) to go after Okafor.
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I wonder if Denver now uses the trade exception and a piece (Klieza) to go after Okafor.
Just for clarification, the trade exception can't be combined with another player to match salaries.
In other words, if they can fit Okafor's salary into the exception ($10.1 million, apparently), they can bring him in, and send Kleiza out in a separate transaction. They could not, however, combine the exception with Kleiza's salary to sign-and-trade Okafor for, say, $15 million.
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Put aside the indefinite sucking, as opposed to coming off a championship, and we'd have a much more riveting off season of discussion here if we were ClippersBlog. What a crazy summer they're having. It's like a roto team.
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Anyone else see the possibility of AI being bought out?
Ya, and maybe he'll accept the veterans minimum to battle Starbury for the right to be Rondo's backup. ::)
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Anyone else see the possibility of AI being bought out?
Ya, and maybe he'll accept the veterans minimum to battle Starbury for the right to be Rondo's backup. ::)
I don't want AI on the Celtics. Never have. Never will.
But it would be fun watching him and Kobe fight over the same ball while the rest of the team stands around.