CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: JSD on July 10, 2008, 08:37:28 AM
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Has Mchale taken a page from Danny Ainge?
KM has grown a ton on the job and relieving himself of KG has allowed him to operate in a fashion that he's more comfortable by developing, finding talent and building trade chips.
I do have a question: Troy Hudson got bought out by the Twolves. Why is he not hurting their cap anymore?
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm
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Has Mchale taken a page from Danny Ainge?
KM has grown a ton on the job and relieving himself of KG has allowed him to operate in a fashion that he's more comfortable by developing, finding talent and building trade chips.
I do have a question: Troy Hudson got bought out by the Twolves. Why is he not hurting their cap anymore?
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm
I think McHale has a long way to go before we declare "he gets it". And as much as I love Danny's moves last offseason, like all great moves, they required quite a bit of luck. Whose to say that even if McHale does build up the right chips, there are going to be vets available the quality of Garnett and Allen. To find two vets of that quality available at all, let alone within a month or two of each other, is extremely unlikely to happen again.
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Maybe Danny will trade Kevin McHale, Paul Pierce.....
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I really don't know much about Randy Wittman's coaching philosophies, but i think McHale has assembled a team that can really get after it in transition and could suprise a lot of teams this year with that ability.
A starting lineup of Foye at PG, Brewer at SG, Miller at SF, Love at the 4, and AJ at 5 would really give teams hell if they were able to push the ball. I know a lot of people have questions about Foye coming off that injury, but he actually played pretty well towards the end of the season averaging 14/4 while shooting 42% from the field and 40% from 3. Brewer won't scare anyone offensively, but he loves to get up and down the floor and get to the rim - the addition of Miller will partially make up for Brewer's shooting deficiencies. Speaking of Miller, the guy is just a gamer. He's never had the chance to play on a good team, yet consistenly brings the effort to the table every night. Just the prescence of him on the floor will give love and AJ enough room to use their McHale-esque post games. AJ may not be the best up-tempo big man, but if he commits to it he can certainly beat the opposing teams 5 up and down the court. Love's uncanny outlet passing will be a huge asset to this team if they commit to this style.
The only question i have about this team is their post defense - and it's a big one. Foye and Miller will hold their own while Brewer will give opposing 2/3's fits, but Love and AJ are too undersized (esp. in the western conference) to do it alone. Calvin Booth and Jason Collins are adequate, but both are a liability on the offensive end.
In the end, i think McHale did a great job adding Miller and Rodney Carney, as both will really help the development of AJ and love down low, but they won't be winning a lot with their two bigs taking a beating by guys much bigger every night. Jefferson will hold his own offesnively, but trying to bully the Chandlers, Shaq's, and Yao's of the world will really take a toll on him. And love trying to cover Duncan, Stoudamire, or West? I don't think so.
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A starting lineup of Foye at PG, Brewer at SG, Miller at SF, Love at the 4, and AJ at 5 would really give teams hell if they were able to push the ball.
Why would this unit be able to push the ball? Foye is a slow PG - really a tweener. Al is not a running center. Miller ... eh. True Love makes good outlet passes and Brewer is good in the open court, but this lineup is not a running one.
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A starting lineup of Foye at PG, Brewer at SG, Miller at SF, Love at the 4, and AJ at 5 would really give teams hell if they were able to push the ball.
Just because someone is undersized at their position doesn't make them good in the open court.
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A starting lineup of Foye at PG, Brewer at SG, Miller at SF, Love at the 4, and AJ at 5 would really give teams hell if they were able to push the ball.
Just because someone is undersized at their position doesn't make them good in the open court.
If McHale can keep that lineup together for a few years, I think that team will be very good.
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Has Mchale taken a page from Danny Ainge?
KM has grown a ton on the job and relieving himself of KG has allowed him to operate in a fashion that he's more comfortable by developing, finding talent and building trade chips.
I do have a question: Troy Hudson got bought out by the Twolves. Why is he not hurting their cap anymore?
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm
I believe they are supposed to pay him 6.3 million this year, so that should count against the cap, unless they paid it all last year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2956359
Could hoopshype be wrong?
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A starting lineup of Foye at PG, Brewer at SG, Miller at SF, Love at the 4, and AJ at 5 would really give teams hell if they were able to push the ball.
Just because someone is undersized at their position doesn't make them good in the open court.
If McHale can keep that lineup together for a few years, I think that team will be very good.
Or they might plateau at mediocre and then start losing players like so many teams with lineups filled with interesting prospects.
I'm pretty skeptical of attempts to predict future improvement of young teams. Might as well flip a coin.
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It's gonna be tough to compete in the west with Zero interior defense down low.
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he gets nothing. they have a rather large payroll for a team that is going to be awful.
No interior defense of any kind and the interior players they have are all undersized. No legitimate PG. No big time scorer on the perimeter. No one that can really create his own shot. No one that will put fans in the seats.
Getting rid of Jaric was a good move, but OJ Mayo would have filled a lot of holes for the perimeter of that team. Don't get me wrong I like Love, but he isn't what the Wolves needed and Miller won't do much of anything in the win column even though he is much better than Jaric.
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A starting lineup of Foye at PG, Brewer at SG, Miller at SF, Love at the 4, and AJ at 5 would really give teams hell if they were able to push the ball.
Just because someone is undersized at their position doesn't make them good in the open court.
true but with Foye manning the point and Brewer on the court, they certainly won't be running the prettiest half-court sets. Get those two out in the open and they're far more effective. Plus, though Jefferson isn't a running big, he can certainly beat the likes of Shaq, Yao, and Gasol down the court.
Whatever identity this team decides to go with, it won't have all the perfect components, but i think they could really take some pressure off of Al and Love by getting their counterparts to get up and down the court on defense - wear them down a bit. In a grind it out, half court game, the Wolves will get punnished on the block.
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I agree, McHale has made some very good moves in the last month or 2 --- after looking completely lost the last year or two.
I thought maybe as part of the KG deal, Ainge agreed to tutor his old teammate in how to be a good GM.
I really like the team they've put together in MIN, to the extent that i'll probably watch/record about 20 games this season. They have 4 ex Cetlics (Big Al, Ryan Gomes and Sebastian Telfair + McHale) and 3 ex-Floria Gators (Mike Miller, Corey Brewer and Chris Richards). Plus i like Kevin Love as a player.
Getting Jason Collins should allow Big Al to move back to PF if they're smart. I'm not sold on Wittman as a coach, but they're a team on the proverbial rise.
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I like the last few deals that Mchale has made, starting with the Ricky Davis/Blount for Walker/#1 pick last summer up through this last deal with Philly. For the first time in a long time, the Wolves have a team of young players with at least some modicum of talent, decent contracts, and a surplus of future #1 picks. I've been saying for weeks now that he seems to be following the "hoard until something happens" philosophy that worked for Danny and seems to be working for the Trailblazers. But as someone else pointed out, for that strategy to work the "something happens" part has to kick in. Danny was able to cash in his chips for KG. Portland got lucky in the lottery with Oden. Mchale will need for something to happen, but at the least he is starting to get the Wolves in a position where if they get that one great piece of luck they'll be ready to take advantage of it.
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A starting lineup of Foye at PG, Brewer at SG, Miller at SF, Love at the 4, and AJ at 5 would really give teams hell if they were able to push the ball.
Just because someone is undersized at their position doesn't make them good in the open court.
If McHale can keep that lineup together for a few years, I think that team will be very good.
I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. I don't think that core is good enough, even with further development, but they'll probably be very fun to watch, especially for those who like high-low offensive plays. I think that in order to become good they need to make some trades. Develop and show these guys, draft another good prospect next year - Rubio running the point with bigs like Al, Love and Pekovic with some shooters providing the space would be sick, probably not a winning formula but surely one of the most entertaining teams in the NBA, bring Pekovic the following season and they have some nice assets to a big trade and become an instant contender.
Love is a very, very solid post defender - his problem is exclusively lack of height -, and Collins has been one of the best interior defenders in the league for almost a decade. The "zero interior defense" is a manifest exaggeration.
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There is a lot of luck involved in these things...
If the Wolves get lucky and draft Rubio at PG next year (assuming Rubio continues to develop, he'll be a better version of Derek Rose) then this team has a chance to be good.
Having said that, McHale had arguably the BEST player in the league for the past 7 years and he was unable to put a decent team around him (except for one season). I don't know if it was all McHales fault but at the end of the day that is simply unacceptable.
When you have the one in a lifetime luck of landing a KG type of player you simply have to take advantage of it; no excuses.
Yes, he's getting better this year. the OJ Mayo trade for K Love and M Miller was simply brilliant. OJ is overrated. There are litle indications that he will be a star in this league (except for the last nine games he played in college which is a rather small sample size).
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Has Mchale taken a page from Danny Ainge?
KM has grown a ton on the job and relieving himself of KG has allowed him to operate in a fashion that he's more comfortable by developing, finding talent and building trade chips.
I do have a question: Troy Hudson got bought out by the Twolves. Why is he not hurting their cap anymore?
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm
I believe they are supposed to pay him 6.3 million this year, so that should count against the cap, unless they paid it all last year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2956359
Could hoopshype be wrong?
I would say yes, Hoopshype is wrong.
unless there is some type of buyout that allows the # not to count against the cap?
Or maybe Mchale did made another sketchy move behind the scenes? haha
...Nah, they're wrong.
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Has Mchale taken a page from Danny Ainge?
KM has grown a ton on the job and relieving himself of KG has allowed him to operate in a fashion that he's more comfortable by developing, finding talent and building trade chips.
I do have a question: Troy Hudson got bought out by the Twolves. Why is he not hurting their cap anymore?
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm
I think McHale has a long way to go before we declare "he gets it". And as much as I love Danny's moves last offseason, like all great moves, they required quite a bit of luck. Whose to say that even if McHale does build up the right chips, there are going to be vets available the quality of Garnett and Allen. To find two vets of that quality available at all, let alone within a month or two of each other, is extremely unlikely to happen again.
If we are going by you need 3 stars to win is the NBA:
1st Guy - Al can be at least a #3 guy on championship team within 5 healthy years. I think he will be an ace.
2nd Guy - Out of their entire young talent pool can one of those player develop into a sidekick or # 3 guy? I think Love? Foye?
3rd Guy - Every year there seems to be at least 1 player that’s for sale for cap relief and young talent. The T-wolves will have both to gamble with and take a max guy.
So yes Danny was lucky in a sense but Mchale actually has an advantage because he acquired players and a future ace through trading an aging all-star. DA did not.
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I would love to know what Big Ticket's opinion on McHale "getting it" all of a sudden.
I mean we are still talking about the guy that lost 5 straight first round draft picks because he was caught tampering on Joe Smith of all players, right?
We are still talking about the guy who's four coaches he's hired are himself, Flip Saunders, Dwayne Casey, and Randy Wittman, right?
We are still talking about the guy that brought in such high quality individuals such as Latrell Spreewell, Stephon Marbury, Ricky Davis and Mark Blount into the franchise, right?
We are still talking about one of the greatest low post talents in the history of the game who in 14 years has developed exactly one good big man, Kevin Garnett, right?
I think McHale is making some good moves that in 3-5 years, if he is still there, might, I repeat, might pay off. But I would still put him down in the bottom third of NBA front office guys and that not being on the high side of that number. I just think he isn't a very good front office guy.
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McHale was seen as a good gm until a few years ago. Losing those draft picks wasn't his only problem, but that clearly hurt.
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"I mean we are still talking about the guy that lost 5 straight first round draft picks because he was caught tampering on Joe Smith of all players, right?"
I'm not sure how you’re correlating the two but you’re making my point. The Joe Smith situation highlights Mchale’s trouble managing the cap in the old CBA.
"We are still talking about the guy who's four coaches he's hired are himself, Flip Saunders, Dwayne Casey, and Randy Wittman, right?"
Yes McHale chose those coaches despite Larry Brown and Phil Jackson begging and pleading to join and be apart of the TWolves of Minnesota.
"We are still talking about the guy that brought in such high quality individuals such as Latrell Spreewell, Stephon Marbury, Ricky Davis and Mark Blount into the franchise, right?"
Again this goes back to his Cap situition and economics. You get what you pay for (or can afford)
"We are still talking about one of the greatest low post talents in the history of the game who in 14 years has developed exactly one good big man, Kevin Garnett, right?"
Yes he helped develop a top 10 PF of all time.
"I think McHale is making some good moves that in 3-5 years, if he is still there, might, I repeat, might pay off. But I would still put him down in the bottom third of NBA front office guys and that not being on the high side of that number. I just think he isn't a very good front office guy."
as of now you are correct but he is a different GM with KG gone and I think he's in a comfort zone that he's never been in before. :P
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My take:
McHale knew if he kept Mayo, that he'd have a team that would make but be eliminated in the first round for the foreseeable future. McHale went with Love knowing they won't be as good this year, hoping that next year he will be able to draft an impact PG/SG/SF. If he went with Mayo, the Wolves wouldn't have seen another lottery pick for another 5 years if all panned out with Mayo. By taking Love, he's solidified a nucleus that is in need of one talented mobile offensive threat - that can be rectified via a lottery pick in the draft next year.
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My take:
McHale knew if he kept Mayo, that he'd have a team that would make but be eliminated in the first round for the foreseeable future. McHale went with Love knowing they won't be as good this year, hoping that next year he will be able to draft an impact PG/SG/SF. If he went with Mayo, the Wolves wouldn't have seen another lottery pick for another 5 years if all panned out with Mayo. By taking Love, he's solidified a nucleus that is in need of one talented mobile offensive threat - that can be rectified via a lottery pick in the draft next year.
I don't buy it. The West is to stacked for Mayo to make that much of a difference over Love.
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Maybe you are right - but as I stated, I'm only talking about a first round elimination, squeezing into the playoffs, that middle territory, not good enough to make it beyond the first round, not bad enough for lotto pick.
Mayo and Love are two totally different positions. I think someone who can be mobile and create his own shot (Mayo) will complement Big Al and greatly improve the team as opposed to having two very good low post players (Al and Love), who won't accomplish much without someone who can create his own offense in order to earn double teams on rotations resulting in a ball toss to Big Al (or Love) in the paint for an easy assists. Love will be great, for what he is, but the TWolves still need a mobile offensive weapon to open up the floor for the bigs (Al and Love). I stand by my suggestion that McHale 'drafting' Love over Mayo opens up a better possibility of them getting a quality sg/sf in the draft next year (as opposed to taking Mayo this year and then forever being in search of a 2nd big to complement Big Al - not easy to find in any draft with any pick), it's much easier to get someone in the top 15 of the draft even if a step down on the talent scale from Mayo who can still create his own shot, than it is to get a KLove clone (a talented big).
Mayo and Al would have greatly complemented each other. A team with a strong mobile offensive weapon (Mayo) and a strong low post player (Al) is going to win games. Love and Al are a little redundant. They are still going to be in need of a pg/sg/sf who can open up the floor and feed Big Al (and Love).
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I just looked at some of McHales trades and draft picks over the years and I just scratch my head. I mean he acquired Dean Garrett and Bobby Jackson for two players AND two first round picks. If that was the only blip so be it, but his drafts have all been horrible and most of his trades have backfired. His free agent signings may take the cake on disaster. McHale is an awful GM and a few half way decent moves in the last 3 months doesn't change that fact.