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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Eja117 on July 07, 2008, 11:39:04 AM

Title: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Eja117 on July 07, 2008, 11:39:04 AM
OMG topic!  Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?  Discuss among yourselves!

(http://www.comm.uiuc.edu/journ199/alisonh/linda.jpg)
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: wdleehi on July 07, 2008, 11:40:49 AM
He was the best GM in the NBA last year. 


He has to do it a few more years to earn best in the NBA. 
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Bankshot on July 07, 2008, 11:43:41 AM
OMG topic!  Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?  Discuss among yourselves!

(http://www.comm.uiuc.edu/journ199/alisonh/linda.jpg)

Last year he was.  But if he nickel and dimes the free agents (like it appears he might be doing) so much that some are turned away and we don't get a chance to sign Posey, Maggette, Giddens and others, then I'd say, no, he's not the best anymore.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: sk7326 on July 07, 2008, 11:48:59 AM
He got a little lucky having a dance partner for the KG deal -- that is good fortune.  I'll grade him in a few areas:

Drafting - A ... his greatest talent is evaluating young talent.  He has consistently gotten good value out of unfavorable draft positions.  Even his one "mistake", Gerald Green was a no brainer pick where he took him (the way that draft unfolded).  He might be the best drafter in the game.

Trades - B ... this should be lower.  His trades are not very good, but he made one GREAT deal and has generally been adept at admitting mistakes and correcting mistakes.

Free Agency - B ... was hamstrung when the Celtics were seen as a pariah franchise.  When they became a sexy one again, he has picked good guys to target. 

He is an excellent GM.  Outside of the Spurs or Pistons organizations, you can do no better in this league.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: carlherrera on July 07, 2008, 11:50:52 AM
I think he was last year. Let's be honest, it took a lot of luck to get to this point.
And let's not forget how much easier it is to be a GM when you have KG on your team. Once he signed everyone wanted to play for the Cs. Danny deserves a lot of credit and was definitely the best last year.
This reminds me: everyone says how joe dumars is such an amazing gm. yet he took darko which is now seen as a huge blunder. my point is that there is a lot of luck involved in this. also, if you are the gm for the lakers or the knicks, your job is a lot easier as so many star players want to play there and their payroll flexibility is higher. all the more incredible that isiah was able to screw up one of the best jobs in all the nba...
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: sk7326 on July 07, 2008, 11:52:21 AM
OMG topic!  Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?  Discuss among yourselves!

(http://www.comm.uiuc.edu/journ199/alisonh/linda.jpg)

Last year he was.  But if he nickel and dimes the free agents (like it appears he might be doing) so much that some are turned away and we don't get a chance to sign Posey, Maggette, Giddens and others, then I'd say, no, he's not the best anymore.

the salary slotting system will get Giddens in ...

As far as not signing Posey, there is a real solid reason -- Posey asking for 5 years at midlevel money, that is a BAD basketball decision, especially at his age.  Any contract Danny offers that ties their cap up beyond Pierce's final year sets this franchise back.

All they have is the MLE, so if they offer it all to Maggette, we can't call it being cheap.  I don't think they are pinching pennies anymore, not with the type of loot that winning a title and filling a building has given them.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Eja117 on July 07, 2008, 12:11:09 PM
He was the best GM in the NBA last year. 


He has to do it a few more years to earn best in the NBA. 

So who would be best then? Dumars? I don't think it's whoever's in San Antonio. I don't know if it's Jerry West.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: wdleehi on July 07, 2008, 12:15:03 PM
He was the best GM in the NBA last year. 


He has to do it a few more years to earn best in the NBA. 

So who would be best then? Dumars? I don't think it's whoever's in San Antonio. I don't know if it's Jerry West.

The guy in SA has the best track record with multiple titles. 


Dumars has won as many titles as Ainge, but has had his team near the top longer.


Riley has the same titles as a GM, but he has had his teams near the top more often.




So Ainge was the best last year.  He has to repeat a few time to be the best overall. 
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Eja117 on July 07, 2008, 12:25:56 PM
He was the best GM in the NBA last year. 


He has to do it a few more years to earn best in the NBA. 

So who would be best then? Dumars? I don't think it's whoever's in San Antonio. I don't know if it's Jerry West.

The guy in SA has the best track record with multiple titles. 


Dumars has won as many titles as Ainge, but has had his team near the top longer.


Riley has the same titles as a GM, but he has had his teams near the top more often.




So Ainge was the best last year.  He has to repeat a few time to be the best overall. 

I kinda just think the SA guy was smart not to bring back David Robinson when he was healthy, lucky to get Duncan, and lucky Tony Parker slipped to where he did in the draft.  Other than that i guess he's pretty good.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: GLS on July 07, 2008, 12:30:51 PM
Best is such a subjective term.  Danny had an outstanding 2007-08 campaign as GM; the near future will tell us if he is still on a roll, so to speak.

It's hard for me to say that Jerry West was outstanding as a GM as well; he had built in assets (LA, money, etc) to help him with his job, and he took advantage of those.

Same with the Knicks.  Donnie Walsh might be the closest thing to a second coming for them; but I cannot anoint him as a outstanding GM simply because of the same things that LA has available.

I'd say the best GM is someone that performs yearly miracles in a "small" market..without the financial advantages that LA, NY offer.

RC Buford....I believe has to be considered.

I think Kevin Pritchard is doing a fine job in Portland.



Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: wdleehi on July 07, 2008, 12:36:26 PM
He was the best GM in the NBA last year. 


He has to do it a few more years to earn best in the NBA. 

So who would be best then? Dumars? I don't think it's whoever's in San Antonio. I don't know if it's Jerry West.

The guy in SA has the best track record with multiple titles. 


Dumars has won as many titles as Ainge, but has had his team near the top longer.


Riley has the same titles as a GM, but he has had his teams near the top more often.




So Ainge was the best last year.  He has to repeat a few time to be the best overall. 

I kinda just think the SA guy was smart not to bring back David Robinson when he was healthy, lucky to get Duncan, and lucky Tony Parker slipped to where he did in the draft.  Other than that i guess he's pretty good.


Basically, he drafted two all-stars (Parker and Manu) that every other team passed over. 

He has found the best teammates to surround his best player (that the team lucked into)

being a good GM is as much about luck as it is about skills. 


Ainge was lucky that two 30+ stars on bad teams came available at the perfect time for the Celtics (when they had a top draft pick, a young stud in Jefferson and two short term large money contracts)  Ainge did a good job gathering those pieces, but had luck in terms of the other teams. 
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: NextCeltic34 on July 07, 2008, 12:36:35 PM
Last year everyone was ready to fire this dude, and now everyone wants to call him the Best GM in the NBA. He had one good season. He has to repeat it again.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Redz on July 07, 2008, 12:41:05 PM
There are the guys who win championships when given the resources to do so then there are the guys who make chicken salad out of chicken poop.  I honestly have more respect for the latter. Guys like whoever the GM is for the Minnesoat Twins.  The NBA is a bit more of a level playing surface, but we can clearly see the difference it makes when ownership is willing to go the extra mile financially to field a top notch team.  Money isn't everything but it sure helps.  That said, Danny built up the parts to make getting the big horses possible.  Is he the best?  Who knows.  He's one of 4 guys in the major US sports to win a title, so that at least puts him in the running.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Emperor Young on July 07, 2008, 12:45:34 PM
Kevin Pritchard from Portland, also GM from Seattle is doing well
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: DannyAinge on July 07, 2008, 01:01:27 PM
hey I made my user name DannyAinge  about a two years ago. I knew he was going to do well. This guy has made so many good trades. On draft day he doesn't just take the pick that is given to him, he stretches the value of each and every pick.

remember when they traded essentially, ricky davis for wally sczerbiak everyone doubted him but me. he had to lump those small contracts into large expiring contracts to eventually trade for better players.

jiri welch for rajon rondo. I loved that trade. Ainge got a first round draft pick from cleveland and then traded down a couple of spots to get Rondo.

all of you guys second guessed this guy. You didn't realize he is not your typical GM. He could of easily signed FA to large contracts that ate up our cap space but he didn't.

He got the award this year for best GM. In my mind he was doing this great of a job all the time, but C's fans have to understand he built this team by himself.

also don't say he got lucky with KG. All along he was saying he had to "aquire chips" to trade for a veteran player. Lucky I think not. He is friends with Mchale and knew he had what it took to get KG.

as far as I'm concerned he is in the best top 5 GM's in the league since he took over.

"In Danny I Trust" 
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: BadNewsBarnes on July 07, 2008, 01:04:04 PM
Last year everyone was ready to fire this dude, and now everyone wants to call him the Best GM in the NBA. He had one good season. He has to repeat it again.

I agree with NextCeltic34 on this.  In order for him to be considered one of the best GM's in the NBA or sports he needs to be able to sustain the success we saw this season.  In Boston success is measured by championships.  Hopefully he gives us several more.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: BballTim on July 07, 2008, 01:14:40 PM
Ainge was lucky that two 30+ stars on bad teams came available at the perfect time for the Celtics (when they had a top draft pick, a young stud in Jefferson and two short term large money contracts)  Ainge did a good job gathering those pieces, but had luck in terms of the other teams. 

  Did you really think it was so surprising that KG was on the market? He had like 1 year left on his contract and Minny was going nowhere.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: wdleehi on July 07, 2008, 01:18:48 PM
Ainge was lucky that two 30+ stars on bad teams came available at the perfect time for the Celtics (when they had a top draft pick, a young stud in Jefferson and two short term large money contracts)  Ainge did a good job gathering those pieces, but had luck in terms of the other teams. 

  Did you really think it was so surprising that KG was on the market? He had like 1 year left on his contract and Minny was going nowhere.

Not surprising, but lucky.


The T-Wolves could have pulled the plug the year before or year after. 
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Roy Hobbs on July 07, 2008, 01:19:43 PM
I'm going to agree with the majority: Danny was the best GM last season.  Other than that, it's hard to say.

I like Danny, and have supported him since he was hired.  However, playing Devil's advocate, would we be having this conversation if Danny's original proposal for KG had been accepted (Big Al + #5 + contracts + other assorted pieces?)  If it had been, we wouldn't have been able to land Ray, and possibly wouldn't have been able to get a third star in here.  If that happens, we're just another good but not great team.

Danny definitely accumulated some good assets, and he planned last season's off-season in advance (it was no coincidence that he obtained Theo's contract as a chip.)  However, let's see what happens from here before placing him above other GMs who have won multiple championships and have their teams in contention annually.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Brickowski on July 07, 2008, 01:24:35 PM
IMHO the Best GM in sports is Scott Pioli.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: BballTim on July 07, 2008, 01:35:13 PM
Ainge was lucky that two 30+ stars on bad teams came available at the perfect time for the Celtics (when they had a top draft pick, a young stud in Jefferson and two short term large money contracts)  Ainge did a good job gathering those pieces, but had luck in terms of the other teams. 

  Did you really think it was so surprising that KG was on the market? He had like 1 year left on his contract and Minny was going nowhere.

Not surprising, but lucky.


The T-Wolves could have pulled the plug the year before or year after. 

  If they'd have pulled the plug a year later we'd have still gotten him.

  The fact was we had the best package of tradeable players and contracts, and not by accident. By your definition every trade made in the history of the league was lucky.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: wdleehi on July 07, 2008, 01:37:20 PM
Ainge was lucky that two 30+ stars on bad teams came available at the perfect time for the Celtics (when they had a top draft pick, a young stud in Jefferson and two short term large money contracts)  Ainge did a good job gathering those pieces, but had luck in terms of the other teams. 

  Did you really think it was so surprising that KG was on the market? He had like 1 year left on his contract and Minny was going nowhere.

Not surprising, but lucky.


The T-Wolves could have pulled the plug the year before or year after. 

  If they'd have pulled the plug a year later we'd have still gotten him.

  The fact was we had the best package of tradeable players and contracts, and not by accident. By your definition every trade made in the history of the league was lucky.


I said a combination. 
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: TripleOT on July 07, 2008, 01:40:42 PM
hey I made my user name DannyAinge  about a two years ago. I knew he was going to do well. This guy has made so many good trades. On draft day he doesn't just take the pick that is given to him, he stretches the value of each and every pick.

remember when they traded essentially, ricky davis for wally sczerbiak everyone doubted him but me. he had to lump those small contracts into large expiring contracts to eventually trade for better players.

jiri welch for rajon rondo. I loved that trade. Ainge got a first round draft pick from cleveland and then traded down a couple of spots to get Rondo.

all of you guys second guessed this guy. You didn't realize he is not your typical GM. He could of easily signed FA to large contracts that ate up our cap space but he didn't.

He got the award this year for best GM. In my mind he was doing this great of a job all the time, but C's fans have to understand he built this team by himself.

also don't say he got lucky with KG. All along he was saying he had to "aquire chips" to trade for a veteran player. Lucky I think not. He is friends with Mchale and knew he had what it took to get KG.

as far as I'm concerned he is in the best top 5 GM's in the league since he took over.

"In Danny I Trust" 

One usually doesn't see this many inaccuracies in a single post.  Congratulations. 
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: sk7326 on July 07, 2008, 01:42:52 PM
Joe Dumars is the best in the game.  Six straight conference finals is the measure of GM's achievement.  Danny put together a team that won a title.  That is commendable, but that is not the measure of a great GM.  That is the measure of great players, great coaching, great playing, and a good deal of luck. 

Billy Beane has opined on this topic before.  That is, all of his "methods" and GM'ing hoo haa can get you a perennial contender.  A GM creates a consistent program that can self sustain, and can be a contender for years.  (note Oakland's financial constraints makes their success more cyclical)  Once you get to the playoffs, that is just about winning games, and a GM cannot do that.  That is the team itself.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Bozo on July 07, 2008, 02:08:58 PM
I have been very, very impressed with DA.  As a GM, I would say he is the best poker player I have seen.  He knows his chips, and he knows when to walk away, and when to strike the deal. He also maintains a sense of what he is looking for, without getting so specific that he locks himself out of considering options that become available.  He makes calculated risk decisions.  While he is very unpredictable in terms of what maneuver, and when, his goal is very consistent. And I really, really, do like what he has done with this team.  Lucky?? That is not luck.  The lucky part was the hiring of DA.  Kind of like Lebron, labeling him as great, is only a matter of time.     
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: paintitgreen on July 07, 2008, 02:11:57 PM
hey I made my user name DannyAinge  about a two years ago. I knew he was going to do well. This guy has made so many good trades. On draft day he doesn't just take the pick that is given to him, he stretches the value of each and every pick.

remember when they traded essentially, ricky davis for wally sczerbiak everyone doubted him but me. he had to lump those small contracts into large expiring contracts to eventually trade for better players.

jiri welch for rajon rondo. I loved that trade. Ainge got a first round draft pick from cleveland and then traded down a couple of spots to get Rondo.

all of you guys second guessed this guy. You didn't realize he is not your typical GM. He could of easily signed FA to large contracts that ate up our cap space but he didn't.

He got the award this year for best GM. In my mind he was doing this great of a job all the time, but C's fans have to understand he built this team by himself.

also don't say he got lucky with KG. All along he was saying he had to "aquire chips" to trade for a veteran player. Lucky I think not. He is friends with Mchale and knew he had what it took to get KG.

as far as I'm concerned he is in the best top 5 GM's in the league since he took over.

"In Danny I Trust" 

One usually doesn't see this many inaccuracies in a single post.  Congratulations. 

TP.

Ainge had a great year and has traditionally drafted well. He's done a very good job. But last year was his first great year. A lot of guys have had one great year and followed it up with bad decisions. I don't think he's the best GM in the NBA right now (and definitely not in all professional sports), but if he continues building the right team around our three stars for the next few years, I'd probably start to consider him the best in the NBA. If he does that AND manages to rebuild on the fly a few years down the road, then I would maybe consider him one of the best in sports.

I agree Buford has done great, as has Dumars and Kupchak, and I'd put Colangelo up there (although I'm not sure Jermaine was a great idea, but maybe a very worthwhile trade). I like Pritchard, too, he's done a great job rebuilding that team quickly, but it seems that some people are crediting him as a guy doing a lot with a little. That's just wrong. The guy has carte blanche to spend Paul Allen's money. He's doing it wisely, but it's the same as anybody in New York or LA - Allen has all the money in the world. Ainge is in a similar situation. Yes, he made a great trade last year and filled in the team with some intelligent free agent acquisitions. But without ownership willing to spend the money, you can't make those moves, something that has hamstrung other GMs. I'm not sold on Presti in Seattle at all but obviously, he was in a tough spot last year with the OKC mess, and the results of his decisions are yet to be seen. Ainge is in the Top 10, at least, though, and probably Top 5. Being #1 last year helps. Let's hope he follows it up.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: juice104 on July 07, 2008, 02:16:42 PM
Danny is a great gm but I have to go with Portland's Kevin Pritchard. He has assembled a team that is going to be a force to be reckoned with for the next eight to ten years. He took over a team with bloated contracts and bad attitudes and turned them into a young team that is already competing for a playoff sport in the deep west. He also hired the perfect coach to develop young talent. What he does every year at the draft is amazing also he doesn't pay overpay for free agents witch most gm's out there do.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: nickagneta on July 07, 2008, 02:53:50 PM
I think most if not all can agree that Danny isn't even the second best professional sports general manager in this town nevermind in all of sports. I think Theo and Belichick are well ahead of Danny in regards to their place in the list of best general managers in sports.

Now if the best GM in the NBA were handled like the Top 25 teams lists in college basketball and football, then I think Danny is indeed the best GM in the NBA since draft night 2007 and will remain so until someone is doing a better job. The trades for Allen and Garnett, the signings in the offseason of Posey and House and the trade line patience and then signings of Brown and Cassel were magnificent and were the reason for his award.

He has a championship to show for those efforts and had what most draftniks appear to believe was an above average to very, very good draft. If he can continue having success with his moves to the tune of a repeat championship, he deserves to still be considered the best GM in basketball. Further successes thereafter could suddenly create a legacy namimg his as one of the best ever. B

But we are still years and years away from that, if it does happen.

I would give a shout out to the Utah front office as being one of the best front offices in basketball for the last 20 years or so. 
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: SShoreFan 2.0 on July 07, 2008, 03:00:40 PM
I love Danny and his approach, I always have.......but let's see a few years of consistency before we anoint him.  I am confident Danny would agree as well.

Nick, I agree with your assessment of Utah they've been a rock of consistency, but they've never won the banner, which I think should be a requirement.  I hate to tip the hat to the ownership of the Lakers, but they are the team that's held it together all these years.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: KJ33 on July 07, 2008, 03:03:37 PM
Danny is a great gm but I have to go with Portland's Kevin Pritchard. He has assembled a team that is going to be a force to be reckoned with for the next eight to ten years. He took over a team with bloated contracts and bad attitudes and turned them into a young team that is already competing for a playoff sport in the deep west. He also hired the perfect coach to develop young talent. What he does every year at the draft is amazing also he doesn't pay overpay for free agents witch most gm's out there do.

FYI, most of your assessment of Pritchard comes from your speculation about what will happen.  In talking about Danny, we are analyzing what has happened.  Whatever one's personal opinion about Danny, you can't take away the championship, them are facts.  What you say about Pritchard and how he has Portland on track may indeed lead to ultimate success, but it is premature to hand him the mantle of best GM in the NBA until and unless his promising moves yield more tangible success.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: bbc3341 on July 07, 2008, 03:16:53 PM
This C's team that just won the title was almost entirely Ainge's construction, well he did resign Pierce, so it is entirely his in the making... He deserves credit - was luck involved? Sure, but he had the right pieces at the right times to make the moves that he did, and also the stones to make them... He gets my vote for best NBA GM.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: tenn_smoothie on July 07, 2008, 03:38:19 PM
i would not say the best - no.

have you forgotten the merry-go-round of trades the Celtics have been through during Danny's tenure ? he made several bad trades that seemed to be made out of panic ...............  and the rebuilding plan changed from month to month at times.

he made one great deal, along with a few solid ones, that brought a title. i'm afraid he may be back to playing a daily game of chess with the players.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Hoops on July 07, 2008, 03:47:15 PM
Last year everyone was ready to fire this dude, and now everyone wants to call him the Best GM in the NBA. He had one good season. He has to repeat it again.

There might be some logical reasons not to annoint Ainge as the best GM, but this is not one of them. Just because a group of under-informed fans, including Celticsbloggers, wanted to fire him last year doesn't mean he wasn't doing a great job. I guess it shouldn't be surprising, but it does surprise me that people aren't able to see the big picture in these situations. To use the chicken poop/salad analogy, chicken poop doesn't magically become chicken salad overnight. There's an incubation period, if you will. It takes a little time. During such a incubation period, the opinions of impatient observers mean very little.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: bbc3341 on July 07, 2008, 04:32:06 PM
How quick we forget the team he was left with with the Vin Baker disaster and everything else. I am amazed that people still criticize him for bad trades. He was stockpiling draft picks and younger players and also at times trying to bring in some legit players to at least make the team competitive. His plan from the beginning was to garner enough assets to be able to make a big move when the timing was right. Worked to perfection.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Who on July 07, 2008, 04:43:29 PM
I'm not sure what to make of Danny. We'll see what he does over the next 5-10 years.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: JSD on July 07, 2008, 04:54:12 PM
He got a little lucky having a dance partner for the KG deal -- that is good fortune.  I'll grade him in a few areas:

Drafting - A ... his greatest talent is evaluating young talent.  He has consistently gotten good value out of unfavorable draft positions.  Even his one "mistake", Gerald Green was a no brainer pick where he took him (the way that draft unfolded).  He might be the best drafter in the game.

Trades - B ... this should be lower.  His trades are not very good, but he made one GREAT deal and has generally been adept at admitting mistakes and correcting mistakes.

Free Agency - B ... was hamstrung when the Celtics were seen as a pariah franchise.  When they became a sexy one again, he has picked good guys to target. 

He is an excellent GM.  Outside of the Spurs or Pistons organizations, you can do no better in this league.

I most definitely disagree with this assessment on trades. The trade for Raef Lafrenze was the only bad trade DA has made as the teams GM and if you want to get really technical that wasn’t even a bad trade when you consider Raef to Theo’s expiring, Theo’s expiring to KG.

And why would you say ONE good trade?

Jiri For a 1st round
Ray Allen
KG

There’s 3 right there.


Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Sweet17 on July 07, 2008, 05:45:57 PM
He did a nice job - but Patriots have him beat by a long shot, IMHO. The Red Sox are right there as well..

Pete
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: JBcat on July 07, 2008, 07:12:39 PM
It took a little bit of time but considering what Ainge had to work in his initial season he didn't have many assets to work with.  He had role players getting older without much value, too many fringe players, hardly any what you would call good prospects, Antoine Walker whose value was starting to decline, and Pierce.  Check out the roster.   I loved some of those guys on that team such as Williams, Battie, and McCarty but as far as those guys having trade value it wasn't much.
Paul Pierce, Antoine Walker, Tonk Delk, Eric Williams, Jr Bremer, Shammond Williams, Tony Battie, Walter McCarty, Vin Baker, Mark Blount, Bimbo Coles, Kedrick Brown, Grant Long, Bruno Sundov, Ruben Wolkowyski, Mark Bryant, and Mikki Moore.
He said at the time the team needed to get much younger and find guys with upside.  Looking at this roster you knew it was going to take a little bit of time.   He is one of the best GMs right now (basketball only) but to be considered the best he will need sustained success.  At least he doesn't have one really huge blunder on his resume such as Dumars with drafting Darko and passing on Carmelo or get extremely lucky with the top pick in the draft such as the Spurs with Duncan.   I still think it would have been interesting what Ainge would have done if we landed the first or 2nd pick last year.  Would he trade Pierce for more young talent and have the eastern conference's version of the up and coming Trailblazers or still roll the dice with the trades he made???
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: cordobes on July 07, 2008, 09:42:11 PM
R. C. Buford/Pop and it's not even close. Ainge can change that in the future, of course. He's doing a great job.

Pritchard?

NBA franchises with a >-10 negative income:

Memphis Grizzlies        -10.9
Portland Trail Blazers       -25.1
New York Knicks        -42.2

So yeah, when you can take decisions disregarding any financial consequences, in the present or in the future, and buy tons of draft picks, and pay for a ultra-hiper-mega-expensive scouting operation, and hire executives from every other team (and their knowledge), and diminish  the prices of the tickets just to create a nice environment... isn't your job quite easier? Yeps, Isiah could have done the same and he didn't... but that's Isiah...
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: CoachBo on July 07, 2008, 11:04:33 PM
R. C. Buford/Pop and it's not even close. Ainge can change that in the future, of course. He's doing a great job.

Pritchard?

NBA franchises with a >-10 negative income:

Memphis Grizzlies        -10.9
Portland Trail Blazers       -25.1
New York Knicks        -42.2

So yeah, when you can take decisions disregarding any financial consequences, in the present or in the future, and buy tons of draft picks, and pay for a ultra-hiper-mega-expensive scouting operation, and hire executives from every other team (and their knowledge), and diminish  the prices of the tickets just to create a nice environment... isn't your job quite easier? Yeps, Isiah could have done the same and he didn't... but that's Isiah...

TP. Buford and Pop are the best, by far. Danny has had a great year - but if he sits back and downgrades the bench by letting Posey pass for weak replacements like Pietrus, then he risks his legacy.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: celticsfan8591 on July 07, 2008, 11:39:43 PM
I don't see how you can deny that a lot of Danny's success has been due to luck.  Who would have expected that McHale would have been willing to take such a crappy offer for KG? Ditto for Sam Presti in Seattle.  that being said, no GM has succeeded without some luck.  Would everyone be saying that RC Buford was a great GM if Robinson didn't get hurt, or they didn't win the lottery?  No.  IMO,  the difference between a good and bad GM is how well they taqke advantage of luck.  For instance, McHale got lucky in that people were too concerned with Garnett's age and not enough about his talent.  However, he failed miserably in acquiring role players to put around KG.  RC Buford also got lucky in that David Robinson got hurt and then they won the lottery and got Duncan.  However, unlike McHale, his subsequent moves worked out brilliantly.  Buford saw the talent in Ginobili and Parker that other teams missed, picked up Bowen when no one else wanted him, etc.   Last season, Danny did a great job.  Sure, he got lucky in that Allen and KG  were available, but he also did a great job finding role players like House and Posey and trusting Rondo and Perkins when he was widely criticized for doing so.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: nickagneta on July 07, 2008, 11:47:15 PM
Uh-oh!!

I see a return of one last offseason's most heated thread topics!!

Danny Ainge got lucky vs Danny Ainge is a genius who planned this the whole way through.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: mahonedog88 on July 07, 2008, 11:49:48 PM
Woah now...I wouldn't say he's the best GM in the NBA, definately not sports.

You do have to give him credit on his drafting abilities (minus Marcus Banks) and finding very good young talent in the mid 1st and 2nd rounds.  This includes getting solid bench pieces like Tony Allen (who if healthy and able to play like he did before he blew out his knee, I believe could start for some teams), Glen Davis, Ryan Gomes, and even Gerald Green who I still believe has so much potential and if he wasn't so immature could eventually evolve into a true nba threat.

But you also have to look at his star players, mainly Al Jefferson but even Delonte West as well.

Up until this past offseason though, he was absolutely terrible at trading.  Obviously the Sebastian Telfair/Theo Ratliff trade was horrible, the Wally trade which was more to get rid of Ricky Davis and Mark Blount then it was to get Wally.  Granted, these trades all worked out in hinesight considering we made a championship team because of these trades.  But there's no way Danny said making that Wally trade "ok now I'm gonna wait a few years and trade him, Delonte, and the number 5 pick that we'll get for Ray Allen"

He got very lucky.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: cdif911 on July 08, 2008, 12:26:08 AM
Uh-oh!!

I see a return of one last offseason's most heated thread topics!!

Danny Ainge got lucky vs Danny Ainge is a genius who planned this the whole way through.


you give a Boston fan a 25 pound piece of gold and they ask you why it isn't 30 pounds....
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: wdleehi on July 08, 2008, 12:41:22 AM
Uh-oh!!

I see a return of one last offseason's most heated thread topics!!

Danny Ainge got lucky vs Danny Ainge is a genius who planned this the whole way through.



I was not trying to start that debate. 


I was trying to say that all good GMs have a combination of luck and skill because of this comment

Quote
I kinda just think the SA guy was smart not to bring back David Robinson when he was healthy, lucky to get Duncan, and lucky Tony Parker slipped to where he did in the draft.  Other than that i guess he's pretty good.

Quote
Basically, he drafted two all-stars (Parker and Manu) that every other team passed over.

He has found the best teammates to surround his best player (that the team lucked into)

being a good GM is as much about luck as it is about skills.


Ainge was lucky that two 30+ stars on bad teams came available at the perfect time for the Celtics (when they had a top draft pick, a young stud in Jefferson and two short term large money contracts)  Ainge did a good job gathering those pieces, but had luck in terms of the other teams.



So I am in no way diminishing what Ainge did this past season.  As I said on the 2nd post
Quote
He was the best GM in the NBA last year. 


So I am in no way trying to restart such a discussion. 


 :)
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: nickagneta on July 08, 2008, 02:28:51 AM
Uh-oh!!

I see a return of one last offseason's most heated thread topics!!

Danny Ainge got lucky vs Danny Ainge is a genius who planned this the whole way through.



I was not trying to start that debate. 


I was trying to say that all good GMs have a combination of luck and skill because of this comment

Quote
I kinda just think the SA guy was smart not to bring back David Robinson when he was healthy, lucky to get Duncan, and lucky Tony Parker slipped to where he did in the draft.  Other than that i guess he's pretty good.

Quote
Basically, he drafted two all-stars (Parker and Manu) that every other team passed over.

He has found the best teammates to surround his best player (that the team lucked into)

being a good GM is as much about luck as it is about skills.


Ainge was lucky that two 30+ stars on bad teams came available at the perfect time for the Celtics (when they had a top draft pick, a young stud in Jefferson and two short term large money contracts)  Ainge did a good job gathering those pieces, but had luck in terms of the other teams.



So I am in no way diminishing what Ainge did this past season.  As I said on the 2nd post
Quote
He was the best GM in the NBA last year. 


So I am in no way trying to restart such a discussion. 


 :)
Oh I wasn't saying you were, all I was saying is that I could see it going that way.

I happen to think you're 100% correct and that the luck/talent argument is very much a what came first the chicken or the egg argument.

You need to have luck to put yourself into a position to use your talent and you have to have talent to recognize that luck and take advantage of it.

Danny was and continues to be both. He had the talent to draft young talent and then the talent to know who would be best suited to teach and coach and develop that talent and hire them.

He was lucky because so many teams passed on that talent and because the man he wanted to coach and develop the talent was available.

He was talented enough to recognize the dynamic that bringing in a KG and RA would be like. He was talented enough to get the deals done and he was lucky in that circumstances at both those teams made superstars of the caliber available.

But I digress.

What I was trying to say is that the convo seemed to be going in the same general direction as those threads last summer and I could see it going that way again.

Danny had some luck and he has a abundance of skill and saying that he had luck in no way diminishes what Danny did last year. I personally can't see how any of the work put in in this franchise last year wasn't anything but sterling. From Danny to Doc to the assistant coaches to the trainers to the players, everyone was outstanding. Everyone. And the team was kinda lucky as well. Little to no injuries. No major season ending injuries. The availability of Brown and Cassell. Etc. etc.

Sorry wd, next time I will try to be clearer. Besides if you did bring back that argument, that's not really a bad thing. They were actually very entertaining threads last offseason and I enjoyed them tremendously
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: TripleOT on July 08, 2008, 03:03:46 AM
Before former Celtics Kevin Prickard (bet you didn't know that -- 11 games in 91-92)is crowned as the best GM in the NBA, shouldn't his team post at least one winning record?

The Spurs front office is the best.  Ainge and Co. are climbing into that lofty area.  If the Cs can win a few more titles in the KG era, he would be their equal, but until then, Buford/Pop are the best.

 
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 03, 2013, 09:41:14 PM
He sucks now...
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 03, 2013, 09:44:24 PM
He sucks now...

So he constructs a team that is flourishing even though two of their biggest contributors this season are out for the season, and he sucks?

Yeah, try again.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 03, 2013, 09:48:13 PM
He sucks now...

So he constructs a team that is flourishing even though two of their biggest contributors this season are out for the season, and he sucks?

Yeah, try again.

Okay I'll try again...

The conclusion of the Perk trade was one of the most questionnable trades in the decade. Trading a key piece to another championship, not to mention having two other injury prone centers, in the middle of chasing one last ring for the big 3?

Also letting go of Ray A for dealing with Rondo? Also for drafting horribly pre-Bradley? Also for not firing overrated coach Doc "the all talk" Rivers?

Too much on my mind bro...
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 03, 2013, 09:52:33 PM
Best in sports? Not by a long shot.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: crimson_stallion on February 03, 2013, 09:53:30 PM
I'd say he is certainly up there, and the Spurs GM has got to be up there as well - San Antonio always manage to pull of incredibly moves that dramatically help their team.

Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 03, 2013, 09:53:55 PM
He sucks now...

So he constructs a team that is flourishing even though two of their biggest contributors this season are out for the season, and he sucks?

Yeah, try again.

Okay I'll try again...

The conclusion of the Perk trade was one of the most questionnable trades in the decade. Trading a key piece to another championship, not to mention having two other injury prone centers, in the middle of chasing one last ring for the big 3?

Also letting go of Ray A for dealing with Rondo? Also for drafting horribly pre-Bradley? Also for not firing overrated coach Doc "the all talk" Rivers?

Too much on my mind bro...

Questionable, but not wrong. It was a good trade.

What's wrong with letting Ray Allen go exactly? Ray Allen left, so what? Sorry if I don't concern myself too much about how Danny drafted with picks at the very end of the draft.

Why would he fire Doc Rivers? Overrated he may be, but he's still on of our best recruiting assets to get talented player to come and play for the Celtics. For good or worse, he's not incompetent.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: hpantazo on February 03, 2013, 09:57:25 PM
He sucks now...

So he constructs a team that is flourishing even though two of their biggest contributors this season are out for the season, and he sucks?

Yeah, try again.

Okay I'll try again...

The conclusion of the Perk trade was one of the most questionnable trades in the decade. Trading a key piece to another championship, not to mention having two other injury prone centers, in the middle of chasing one last ring for the big 3?

Also letting go of Ray A for dealing with Rondo? Also for drafting horribly pre-Bradley? Also for not firing overrated coach Doc "the all talk" Rivers?

Too much on my mind bro...

I disagree.

Perk was going to get, and he did get, overpaid, and we got Green and Melo for him. Solid deal imo. Perk was a shell of his former self for over a year after his return from knee surgery, he wasn't going to bring us banner 18.

Ray left because he didn't want to admit that he's washed up. So far, Danny and Doc were completely correct on that one. Ray sucked last year, and he sucks on the heat so far. He can't dribble, throws the ball away, and is a defensive liability. All he can do is hit open jumpers and free throws.

Drafting poorly before Bradley? Are you kidding me? He drafted Rondo, Big Al, etc. Ainge is consistently one of the best at drafting.

If you want to criticize him on anything, it should be for not re-signing Tony Allen. That was his most costly move imo. We missed TA for two years, may have cost us a banner.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 03, 2013, 09:59:12 PM
He sucks now...

So he constructs a team that is flourishing even though two of their biggest contributors this season are out for the season, and he sucks?

Yeah, try again.

Okay I'll try again...

The conclusion of the Perk trade was one of the most questionnable trades in the decade. Trading a key piece to another championship, not to mention having two other injury prone centers, in the middle of chasing one last ring for the big 3?

Also letting go of Ray A for dealing with Rondo? Also for drafting horribly pre-Bradley? Also for not firing overrated coach Doc "the all talk" Rivers?

Too much on my mind bro...

Questionable, but not wrong. It was a good trade.

What's wrong with letting Ray Allen go exactly? Ray Allen left, so what? Sorry if I don't concern myself too much about how Danny drafted with picks at the very end of the draft.

Why would he fire Doc Rivers? Overrated he may be, but he's still on of our best recruiting assets to get talented player to come and play for the Celtics. For good or worse, he's not incompetent.

Yeah, I know I luv Jeff Green's game so much right now, but I'd rather have that shot for a championship at that moment. Ray Allen was highly influenced by Rondo's stubbornness to leave Beantown. Yeah, you dont concern yourself for the draft picks since your that guy who wanted JR Giddens for crying out loud ::)

Also, there are plenty of other unhired coaches that other players could love to join them on a team.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 03, 2013, 10:03:28 PM
He sucks now...

So he constructs a team that is flourishing even though two of their biggest contributors this season are out for the season, and he sucks?

Yeah, try again.

Okay I'll try again...

The conclusion of the Perk trade was one of the most questionnable trades in the decade. Trading a key piece to another championship, not to mention having two other injury prone centers, in the middle of chasing one last ring for the big 3?

Also letting go of Ray A for dealing with Rondo? Also for drafting horribly pre-Bradley? Also for not firing overrated coach Doc "the all talk" Rivers?

Too much on my mind bro...

Questionable, but not wrong. It was a good trade.

What's wrong with letting Ray Allen go exactly? Ray Allen left, so what? Sorry if I don't concern myself too much about how Danny drafted with picks at the very end of the draft.

Why would he fire Doc Rivers? Overrated he may be, but he's still on of our best recruiting assets to get talented player to come and play for the Celtics. For good or worse, he's not incompetent.

Yeah, I know I luv Jeff Green's game so much right now, but I'd rather have that shot for a championship at that moment. Ray Allen was highly influenced by Rondo's stubbornness to leave Beantown. Yeah, you dont concern yourself for the draft picks since your that guy who wanted JR Giddens for crying out loud ::)

Also, there are plenty of other unhired coaches that other players could love to join them on a team.

Huh? I don't care one way or another. We drafted Giddens, was curious as to why he was signed, liked the prospects of what he could bring defensively and with his rebounding. I don't recall EVER pushing for Ainge to draft Giddens. So he was a bust, it happens... you're getting a bit ridiculous with your arguments.

You might have forgotten though that when we traded for Jeff Green we didn't have a back-up SF, that's the reason the trade was made essentially. Perk was also hobbling, he was traded for a healthy Center and a SF. BTW, Perk sucked badly that year in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: hpantazo on February 03, 2013, 10:04:18 PM
He sucks now...

So he constructs a team that is flourishing even though two of their biggest contributors this season are out for the season, and he sucks?

Yeah, try again.

Okay I'll try again...

The conclusion of the Perk trade was one of the most questionnable trades in the decade. Trading a key piece to another championship, not to mention having two other injury prone centers, in the middle of chasing one last ring for the big 3?

Also letting go of Ray A for dealing with Rondo? Also for drafting horribly pre-Bradley? Also for not firing overrated coach Doc "the all talk" Rivers?

Too much on my mind bro...

Questionable, but not wrong. It was a good trade.

What's wrong with letting Ray Allen go exactly? Ray Allen left, so what? Sorry if I don't concern myself too much about how Danny drafted with picks at the very end of the draft.

Why would he fire Doc Rivers? Overrated he may be, but he's still on of our best recruiting assets to get talented player to come and play for the Celtics. For good or worse, he's not incompetent.

Yeah, I know I luv Jeff Green's game so much right now, but I'd rather have that shot for a championship at that moment. Ray Allen was highly influenced by Rondo's stubbornness to leave Beantown. Yeah, you dont concern yourself for the draft picks since your that guy who wanted JR Giddens for crying out loud ::)

Also, there are plenty of other unhired coaches that other players could love to join them on a team.

Ray left because he knew that the only way to hide his degraded skills was to shoot open jumpers off double teams that Lebron and Wade get in Miami. He was just too proud to say it.

Perk was useless the year we traded him. He was not bringing any team a championship that year. He's not much better now after he fully recovered either, and he gets paid too much for what he is.

And again, Ainge is one of the best at drafting in the NBA.

Doc Rivers, for all his issues with game strategies, is one of the most influential pieces when it comes to us getting players to come here.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: hpantazo on February 03, 2013, 10:06:28 PM
He sucks now...

So he constructs a team that is flourishing even though two of their biggest contributors this season are out for the season, and he sucks?

Yeah, try again.

Okay I'll try again...

The conclusion of the Perk trade was one of the most questionnable trades in the decade. Trading a key piece to another championship, not to mention having two other injury prone centers, in the middle of chasing one last ring for the big 3?

Also letting go of Ray A for dealing with Rondo? Also for drafting horribly pre-Bradley? Also for not firing overrated coach Doc "the all talk" Rivers?

Too much on my mind bro...

Questionable, but not wrong. It was a good trade.

What's wrong with letting Ray Allen go exactly? Ray Allen left, so what? Sorry if I don't concern myself too much about how Danny drafted with picks at the very end of the draft.

Why would he fire Doc Rivers? Overrated he may be, but he's still on of our best recruiting assets to get talented player to come and play for the Celtics. For good or worse, he's not incompetent.

Yeah, I know I luv Jeff Green's game so much right now, but I'd rather have that shot for a championship at that moment. Ray Allen was highly influenced by Rondo's stubbornness to leave Beantown. Yeah, you dont concern yourself for the draft picks since your that guy who wanted JR Giddens for crying out loud ::)

Also, there are plenty of other unhired coaches that other players could love to join them on a team.

Huh? I don't care one way or another. We drafted Giddens, was curious as to why he was signed, liked the prospects of what he could bring defensively and with his rebounding. I don't recall EVER pushing for Ainge to draft Giddens. So he was a bust, it happens... you're getting a bit ridiculous with your arguments.

You might have forgotten though that when we traded for Jeff Green we didn't have a back-up SF, that's the reason the trade was made essentially. Perk was also hobbling, he was traded for a healthy Center and a SF. BTW, Perk sucked badly that year in the playoffs.

Yep, not only did he suck badly, he sucked badly on defense, which is where we would have needed him the most. Amazing how people act as if we traded away Mutombo in his prime or something.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Roy H. on February 03, 2013, 10:08:14 PM
Why are we bumping threads from over four years ago again?  Is it just to try to pick fights?
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: danglertx on February 03, 2013, 10:13:06 PM
Ainge was lucky that two 30+ stars on bad teams came available at the perfect time for the Celtics (when they had a top draft pick, a young stud in Jefferson and two short term large money contracts)  Ainge did a good job gathering those pieces, but had luck in terms of the other teams. 

  Did you really think it was so surprising that KG was on the market? He had like 1 year left on his contract and Minny was going nowhere.

Not surprising, but lucky.


The T-Wolves could have pulled the plug the year before or year after.

The thing that everyone forgets in the KG deal is that the Celtics were the only team Minny would trade KG too.  KG wouldn't sign an extension with any team that was losing and any team that KG would sign an extension to go to would have no shot of being a lottery team. So a number one draft pick was essentially meaningless from those teams.

What the Wolves needed was a draft pick that would be a sure fire lottery pick and only the Celtics could offer that because they had the Wolves #1 pick.  If the Wolves trade Garnett, they are definitely in the lottery. 

Add to that Al Jefferson who was and has been a very good player and the Wolves did alright in that deal.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Roy H. on February 03, 2013, 10:17:04 PM
The thing that everyone forgets in the KG deal is that the Celtics were the only team Minny would trade KG too.  KG wouldn't sign an extension with any team that was losing and any team that KG would sign an extension to go to would have no shot of being a lottery team. So a number one draft pick was essentially meaningless from those teams.

What the Wolves needed was a draft pick that would be a sure fire lottery pick and only the Celtics could offer that because they had the Wolves #1 pick.  If the Wolves trade Garnett, they are definitely in the lottery. 

Add to that Al Jefferson who was and has been a very good player and the Wolves did alright in that deal.

For whatever it's worth, that pick we dealt back to Minnesota wasn't a lottery pick.  Due to the protections on the pick, it eventually turned into a second rounder.

(I know some outlets list that #1 as the Johnny Flynn pick, but that's not accurate.)
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 03, 2013, 10:17:43 PM
Ainge was lucky that two 30+ stars on bad teams came available at the perfect time for the Celtics (when they had a top draft pick, a young stud in Jefferson and two short term large money contracts)  Ainge did a good job gathering those pieces, but had luck in terms of the other teams. 

  Did you really think it was so surprising that KG was on the market? He had like 1 year left on his contract and Minny was going nowhere.

Not surprising, but lucky.


The T-Wolves could have pulled the plug the year before or year after.

The thing that everyone forgets in the KG deal is that the Celtics were the only team Minny would trade KG too.  KG wouldn't sign an extension with any team that was losing and any team that KG would sign an extension to go to would have no shot of being a lottery team. So a number one draft pick was essentially meaningless from those teams.

What the Wolves needed was a draft pick that would be a sure fire lottery pick and only the Celtics could offer that because they had the Wolves #1 pick.  If the Wolves trade Garnett, they are definitely in the lottery. 

Add to that Al Jefferson who was and has been a very good player and the Wolves did alright in that deal.

Also remember that KG didn't want to come to Boston initially, so Ainge scrambled, got a trade done for Ray Allen, and suddenly Boston became very attractive to KG.

So not only did Ainge trade away some of our big assets to get Ray Allen, he had enough left over to keep Minnesota interested while doing moves to convince an elite player to want to come and play for your organization when he previously didn't want to. Oh, and kept Rondo, probably our best prospect and one of our biggest assets.

Anyone who wants to downplay what Ainge did for us that offseason, is simply making a losing argument.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: danglertx on February 03, 2013, 10:21:12 PM
The thing that everyone forgets in the KG deal is that the Celtics were the only team Minny would trade KG too.  KG wouldn't sign an extension with any team that was losing and any team that KG would sign an extension to go to would have no shot of being a lottery team. So a number one draft pick was essentially meaningless from those teams.

What the Wolves needed was a draft pick that would be a sure fire lottery pick and only the Celtics could offer that because they had the Wolves #1 pick.  If the Wolves trade Garnett, they are definitely in the lottery. 

Add to that Al Jefferson who was and has been a very good player and the Wolves did alright in that deal.

For whatever it's worth, that pick we dealt back to Minnesota wasn't a lottery pick.  Due to the protections on the pick, it eventually turned into a second rounder.

(I know some outlets list that #1 as the Johnny Flynn pick, but that's not accurate.)

That was the Boston pick maybe, the Wolves can't have a pick protected pick that was their own pick.  Boston had Minny's 1st round pick that year they acquired in a Wally Szerbiak deal.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Roy H. on February 03, 2013, 10:27:01 PM
The thing that everyone forgets in the KG deal is that the Celtics were the only team Minny would trade KG too.  KG wouldn't sign an extension with any team that was losing and any team that KG would sign an extension to go to would have no shot of being a lottery team. So a number one draft pick was essentially meaningless from those teams.

What the Wolves needed was a draft pick that would be a sure fire lottery pick and only the Celtics could offer that because they had the Wolves #1 pick.  If the Wolves trade Garnett, they are definitely in the lottery. 

Add to that Al Jefferson who was and has been a very good player and the Wolves did alright in that deal.

For whatever it's worth, that pick we dealt back to Minnesota wasn't a lottery pick.  Due to the protections on the pick, it eventually turned into a second rounder.

(I know some outlets list that #1 as the Johnny Flynn pick, but that's not accurate.)

That was the Boston pick maybe, the Wolves can't have a pick protected pick that was their own pick.  Boston had Minny's 1st round pick that year they acquired in a Wally Szerbiak deal.

We had Minnesota's #1, but it had protections on it.  Also, because of a previous trade Minnesota made with the Clippers (from the Marko Jaric trade) we couldn't get Minnesota's pick until two years after the Clippers got that pick.

Because of the protections, that #1 pick would have never vested.  Instead, it was converted into a second rounder. 
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: OsirusCeltics on February 03, 2013, 10:30:48 PM
He sucks now...

So he constructs a team that is flourishing even though two of their biggest contributors this season are out for the season, and he sucks?

Yeah, try again.

Okay I'll try again...

The conclusion of the Perk trade was one of the most questionnable trades in the decade. Trading a key piece to another championship, not to mention having two other injury prone centers, in the middle of chasing one last ring for the big 3?

Also letting go of Ray A for dealing with Rondo? Also for drafting horribly pre-Bradley? Also for not firing overrated coach Doc "the all talk" Rivers?

Too much on my mind bro...

I disagree.

Perk was going to get, and he did get, overpaid, and we got Green and Melo for him. Solid deal imo. Perk was a shell of his former self for over a year after his return from knee surgery, he wasn't going to bring us banner 18.

Ray left because he didn't want to admit that he's washed up. So far, Danny and Doc were completely correct on that one. Ray sucked last year, and he sucks on the heat so far. He can't dribble, throws the ball away, and is a defensive liability. All he can do is hit open jumpers and free throws.

Drafting poorly before Bradley? Are you kidding me? He drafted Rondo, Big Al, etc. Ainge is consistently one of the best at drafting.

If you want to criticize him on anything, it should be for not re-signing Tony Allen. That was his most costly move imo. We missed TA for two years, may have cost us a banner.

Not resigning Posey is his only blunder IMO
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 03, 2013, 10:51:21 PM
if DA. can come up with a big man to help KG it would be a huge feather in his cap
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: edwardjkasche on February 03, 2013, 11:17:57 PM
I wrote this after the game today:

"I want to call out everyone who has bashed Ainge this season!

We lost our starting PG and new starting PF this week and managed to win 4 in a row and play some [dang] good basketball during that stretch.

A team couldn’t do that unless it was well constructed.

Green’s been playing better (though I’ll admit he’ll never be dollar-for-dollar worth his contract), Terry’s shots are starting to fall, Barbosa is an offensive spark, Lee and Bradley are smothering opposing guards, Collins has been chipping in solid if not spectacular minutes, Wilcox is returning with energy, Bass is stepping up when needed. And, The Truth and KG have been rolling along.

But, fan after fan has been complaining day after day that we don’t have Blatche or we haven’t traded for this guy or that guy. It’s not a video game. GMs can’t just make every dream move come true. Ainge has put together a team that can compete and win games without its starting PG and PF. That’s impressive.

I know we still need another big or two, and I’m sure Ainge is working the phones for a trade or free agent signing, but the man did his job during the off-season.

It’s odd to write this, but if Darko had stuck around we may not even be in the position to need another big."

Point is, Ainge has done a great job every season with the money and spots he has available.  People who complain often complain because we don't get one particular guy, but there are hundreds of reason why, and no one ever seems to remember that guys Ainge brings in HAVE TO FIT THEIR SYSTEM.

Ainge isn't the best GM in the NBA (the Thunder and Spurs have been pretty good for a while, and stupid Pat Riley did build a championship-caliber team (based on lies and back-stabbing)), but Ainge is a top-5 in the NBA and top-20 in all of sports... and that's pretty [dang] good.  I trust him.  Even though I cried when Perk was traded...
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 03, 2013, 11:33:38 PM
At the end of the day, Ainge is at least better than average. I don't think he's the best in sports, by a long shot, but he isn't below average!
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: BASS_THUMPER on February 03, 2013, 11:37:01 PM
ainge is the best
he has rings as a player and Gm

what other Gm can say that?
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: wdleehi on February 03, 2013, 11:40:53 PM
Ainge was lucky that two 30+ stars on bad teams came available at the perfect time for the Celtics (when they had a top draft pick, a young stud in Jefferson and two short term large money contracts)  Ainge did a good job gathering those pieces, but had luck in terms of the other teams. 

  Did you really think it was so surprising that KG was on the market? He had like 1 year left on his contract and Minny was going nowhere.

Not surprising, but lucky.


The T-Wolves could have pulled the plug the year before or year after.

The thing that everyone forgets in the KG deal is that the Celtics were the only team Minny would trade KG too.  KG wouldn't sign an extension with any team that was losing and any team that KG would sign an extension to go to would have no shot of being a lottery team. So a number one draft pick was essentially meaningless from those teams.

What the Wolves needed was a draft pick that would be a sure fire lottery pick and only the Celtics could offer that because they had the Wolves #1 pick.  If the Wolves trade Garnett, they are definitely in the lottery. 

Add to that Al Jefferson who was and has been a very good player and the Wolves did alright in that deal.


Not often I get quoted from 5 years ago. 
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: OsirusCeltics on February 03, 2013, 11:45:03 PM
ainge is the best
he has rings as a player and Gm

what other Gm can say that?

I think the others are
Mitch Kupcheck and Pat Riley
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: celts10 on February 03, 2013, 11:53:56 PM
Oh, and kept Rondo, probably our best prospect and one of our biggest assets.

IIRC, Seattle really really wanted Rondo in the Ray Allen deal. Kudos to Danny for sticking with his gut and sending them Delonte instead.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: BASS_THUMPER on February 03, 2013, 11:57:32 PM
ainge is the best
he has rings as a player and Gm

what other Gm can say that?

I think the others are
Mitch Kupcheck and Pat Riley

well with pat..
i forget anything dealing with a laker

and the only Mitch i know is the deodorant Mitchum
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: danglertx on February 04, 2013, 12:03:48 AM
The thing that everyone forgets in the KG deal is that the Celtics were the only team Minny would trade KG too.  KG wouldn't sign an extension with any team that was losing and any team that KG would sign an extension to go to would have no shot of being a lottery team. So a number one draft pick was essentially meaningless from those teams.

What the Wolves needed was a draft pick that would be a sure fire lottery pick and only the Celtics could offer that because they had the Wolves #1 pick.  If the Wolves trade Garnett, they are definitely in the lottery. 

Add to that Al Jefferson who was and has been a very good player and the Wolves did alright in that deal.

For whatever it's worth, that pick we dealt back to Minnesota wasn't a lottery pick.  Due to the protections on the pick, it eventually turned into a second rounder.

(I know some outlets list that #1 as the Johnny Flynn pick, but that's not accurate.)

That was the Boston pick maybe, the Wolves can't have a pick protected pick that was their own pick.  Boston had Minny's 1st round pick that year they acquired in a Wally Szerbiak deal.

We had Minnesota's #1, but it had protections on it.  Also, because of a previous trade Minnesota made with the Clippers (from the Marko Jaric trade) we couldn't get Minnesota's pick until two years after the Clippers got that pick.

Because of the protections, that #1 pick would have never vested.  Instead, it was converted into a second rounder.

I don't know where you are getting that but,

"Boston's 2009 first-round draft pick (top 3 protected), and the 2009 first-round pick which Minnesota had traded to Boston in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak trade of 2006."

Is from the NBA website.  And that pick was used on Johnny Flynn. 

With the 28th pick from Boston Minny selected Jonas Jerepko and they also had the 5th pick from Washington they used to select Ricky Rubio.

Not sure where you are getting your information, mine is from the NBA.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: OsirusCeltics on February 04, 2013, 12:22:47 AM
ainge is the best
he has rings as a player and Gm

what other Gm can say that?

I think the others are
Mitch Kupcheck and Pat Riley

well with pat..
i forget anything dealing with a laker

and the only Mitch i know is the deodorant Mitchum

Hahaha too funny
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: CantBeRight on February 04, 2013, 12:30:36 AM
ainge is the best
he has rings as a player and Gm

what other Gm can say that?

I think the others are
Mitch Kupcheck and Pat Riley

well with pat..
i forget anything dealing with a laker

and the only Mitch i know is the deodorant Mitchum

TP.  ;D
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 04, 2013, 12:41:05 AM
The thing that everyone forgets in the KG deal is that the Celtics were the only team Minny would trade KG too.  KG wouldn't sign an extension with any team that was losing and any team that KG would sign an extension to go to would have no shot of being a lottery team. So a number one draft pick was essentially meaningless from those teams.

What the Wolves needed was a draft pick that would be a sure fire lottery pick and only the Celtics could offer that because they had the Wolves #1 pick.  If the Wolves trade Garnett, they are definitely in the lottery. 

Add to that Al Jefferson who was and has been a very good player and the Wolves did alright in that deal.

For whatever it's worth, that pick we dealt back to Minnesota wasn't a lottery pick.  Due to the protections on the pick, it eventually turned into a second rounder.

(I know some outlets list that #1 as the Johnny Flynn pick, but that's not accurate.)

That was the Boston pick maybe, the Wolves can't have a pick protected pick that was their own pick.  Boston had Minny's 1st round pick that year they acquired in a Wally Szerbiak deal.

We had Minnesota's #1, but it had protections on it.  Also, because of a previous trade Minnesota made with the Clippers (from the Marko Jaric trade) we couldn't get Minnesota's pick until two years after the Clippers got that pick.

Because of the protections, that #1 pick would have never vested.  Instead, it was converted into a second rounder.

I don't know where you are getting that but,

"Boston's 2009 first-round draft pick (top 3 protected), and the 2009 first-round pick which Minnesota had traded to Boston in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak trade of 2006."

Is from the NBA website.  And that pick was used on Johnny Flynn. 

With the 28th pick from Boston Minny selected Jonas Jerepko and they also had the 5th pick from Washington they used to select Ricky Rubio.

Not sure where you are getting your information, mine is from the NBA.

Minnesota's pick protected, we traded that protected pick back to them, so they no longer owed and kind of obligation. They picked Johnny Flynn with their own pick that year. It's not contradictory to what Roy has been saying (which is accurate).
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Mazingerz on February 04, 2013, 01:45:19 AM
Ainge is a good one but Arsenal's and Man United Managers have been pretty good too.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: ACF on February 04, 2013, 04:39:18 AM
also GM from Seattle is doing well

Thunder or Kings?  ;)

Presti, probably, and yeah he is.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: BballTim on February 04, 2013, 06:56:57 AM
Ainge is a good one but Arsenal's and Man United Managers have been pretty good too.

  See how well they perform with a salary cap and no money for large transfer fees.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 04, 2013, 07:20:07 AM
He sucks now...

So he constructs a team that is flourishing even though two of their biggest contributors this season are out for the season, and he sucks?

Yeah, try again.

Okay I'll try again...

The conclusion of the Perk trade was one of the most questionnable trades in the decade. Trading a key piece to another championship, not to mention having two other injury prone centers, in the middle of chasing one last ring for the big 3?

Also letting go of Ray A for dealing with Rondo? Also for drafting horribly pre-Bradley? Also for not firing overrated coach Doc "the all talk" Rivers?

Too much on my mind bro...

Questionable, but not wrong. It was a good trade.

What's wrong with letting Ray Allen go exactly? Ray Allen left, so what? Sorry if I don't concern myself too much about how Danny drafted with picks at the very end of the draft.

Why would he fire Doc Rivers? Overrated he may be, but he's still on of our best recruiting assets to get talented player to come and play for the Celtics. For good or worse, he's not incompetent.

Yeah, I know I luv Jeff Green's game so much right now, but I'd rather have that shot for a championship at that moment. Ray Allen was highly influenced by Rondo's stubbornness to leave Beantown. Yeah, you dont concern yourself for the draft picks since your that guy who wanted JR Giddens for crying out loud ::)

Also, there are plenty of other unhired coaches that other players could love to join them on a team.

Huh? I don't care one way or another. We drafted Giddens, was curious as to why he was signed, liked the prospects of what he could bring defensively and with his rebounding. I don't recall EVER pushing for Ainge to draft Giddens. So he was a bust, it happens... you're getting a bit ridiculous with your arguments.

You might have forgotten though that when we traded for Jeff Green we didn't have a back-up SF, that's the reason the trade was made essentially. Perk was also hobbling, he was traded for a healthy Center and a SF. BTW, Perk sucked badly that year in the playoffs.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=20989.msg327247#msg327247

Yeah, try again lol
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 04, 2013, 07:31:24 AM
Ainge is a good one but Arsenal's and Man United Managers have been pretty good too.

  See how well they perform with a salary cap and no money for large transfer fees.

That's totally irrelevant, since they don't have a salary cap and have money for large transfer fees.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Gomesfan on February 04, 2013, 07:32:11 AM
Belicheck is essentially the GM of the Pats.... He's the best!
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: BballTim on February 04, 2013, 07:58:55 AM
Ainge is a good one but Arsenal's and Man United Managers have been pretty good too.

  See how well they perform with a salary cap and no money for large transfer fees.

That's totally irrelevant, since they don't have a salary cap and have money for large transfer fees.

 Thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Roy H. on February 04, 2013, 07:59:42 AM
The thing that everyone forgets in the KG deal is that the Celtics were the only team Minny would trade KG too.  KG wouldn't sign an extension with any team that was losing and any team that KG would sign an extension to go to would have no shot of being a lottery team. So a number one draft pick was essentially meaningless from those teams.

What the Wolves needed was a draft pick that would be a sure fire lottery pick and only the Celtics could offer that because they had the Wolves #1 pick.  If the Wolves trade Garnett, they are definitely in the lottery. 

Add to that Al Jefferson who was and has been a very good player and the Wolves did alright in that deal.

For whatever it's worth, that pick we dealt back to Minnesota wasn't a lottery pick.  Due to the protections on the pick, it eventually turned into a second rounder.

(I know some outlets list that #1 as the Johnny Flynn pick, but that's not accurate.)

That was the Boston pick maybe, the Wolves can't have a pick protected pick that was their own pick.  Boston had Minny's 1st round pick that year they acquired in a Wally Szerbiak deal.

We had Minnesota's #1, but it had protections on it.  Also, because of a previous trade Minnesota made with the Clippers (from the Marko Jaric trade) we couldn't get Minnesota's pick until two years after the Clippers got that pick.

Because of the protections, that #1 pick would have never vested.  Instead, it was converted into a second rounder.

I don't know where you are getting that but,

"Boston's 2009 first-round draft pick (top 3 protected), and the 2009 first-round pick which Minnesota had traded to Boston in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak trade of 2006."

Is from the NBA website.  And that pick was used on Johnny Flynn. 

With the 28th pick from Boston Minny selected Jonas Jerepko and they also had the 5th pick from Washington they used to select Ricky Rubio.

Not sure where you are getting your information, mine is from the NBA.

Minnesota's pick protected, we traded that protected pick back to them, so they no longer owed and kind of obligation. They picked Johnny Flynn with their own pick that year. It's not contradictory to what Roy has been saying (which is accurate).

Yeah, I'm not going to spend a lot of time arguing on something where I know I'm right.

Here are the details on that pick, from Celtics.com:

Quote
    Aside from our own picks, the Celtics are likely entitled to receive a future first-round pick from the Minnesota Timberwolves. Due to a league rule prohibiting teams from ever placing themselves in a situation where two consecutive future first-round picks have been traded away, the Celtics cannot receive the first round pick the Timberwolves owe from the Ricky Davis/Wally Szczerbiak trade until two years after the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers (from the Sam Cassell/Marko Jaric trade). However, because the Clippers trade involved top 10 "protection," Minnesota only has to send the pick to the Clippers if the pick falls outside the top 10 picks in the draft. Therefore, in future years, Celtics fans should be rooting for Minnesota to win (when, of course, they're not playing against the Celtics) until the Timberwolves finish a season out of the bottom ten, and send their pick to the Clippers. Two years after this occurs, the Timberwolves will send their first-round pick to the Celtics, subject to some "protection" which decreases annually after the first year in which we could receive the pick.*

    The situation is further complicated by a league rule that prevents any deals being made involving drafts more than 7 drafts into the future; as a result the Celtics cannot receive Minnesota's pick after the 2012 draft, since the Ricky/Wally trade was made before the 2006 draft. Therefore, if the Timberwolves do not send a pick to the Clippers by the end of the 2010 draft, the Celtics will be unable to receive the Timberwolves' first-round pick in 2012, and will instead receive a second-round pick in 2012.

* For those die-hard draft fans who want all the details, here's how the protection on this pick works: If the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2007, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2009 if it falls outside of the top 14, in 2010 if it falls outside of the top 5, in 2011 if it falls outside of the top 3, or in 2012 unconditionally. If the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2008, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2010 if it falls outside of the top 14, in 2011 if it falls outside of the top 5, or in 2012 unconditionally. If the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2009, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2011 if it falls outside the top 14, or in 2012 unconditionally. Finally, if the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2010, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2012 unconditionally.

http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/inside-the-numbers/numbers042006.html

The Clippers didn't get the Twolves' pick until 2012 (which was traded to New Orleans in the CP3 deal, and became Austin Rivers).

Read the bolded part above:  we would have ended up with a second rounder.  The Celtics never, ever had the right to a lottery pick.
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 04, 2013, 09:35:12 PM
Belicheck is essentially the GM of the Pats.... He's the best!

Not really...
Title: Re: Is Danny Ainge the best GM in the NBA (or sports for that matter)?
Post by: Reyquila on February 04, 2013, 10:21:43 PM
Of course he is. Who's doubting it?