CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: mainevent on November 29, 2007, 12:17:48 PM
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Edit - I hijacked this thread and made it the official Al Jefferson discussion thread. wdleehi
I know this has been talked about a trillion times already, but after watching last nights game I have come to the conclusion that we should have kept Big Al in Green. I LOVE KG and all that he brings....leadership, focus, intensity etc. but KG has had TWELVE years in this league already. Yes, we will win more games with him, but anything short of a championship I will be HIGHLY disappointed, and that is only with the fact that we gave up one of the best big men in the league and WILL be for the next 12 years. I was very excited about the trade, but honestly, I would have shipped out Pierce, got back a quality player, kept our pick and picked Yi and built around Al. Done, end of story. We would have made the playoffs where anything goes and even if we had gotten knocked out in the first or second round, that would have been experience to build with.
Last night was the first full Minny game I have watched and afterwards I felt that we gave up something really special in Al Jefferson.
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"Yes, we will win more games with him, but anything short of a championship I will be HIGHLY disappointed"
we all will be, but for the love of God please no more al jefferson threads. please?
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No offense, but that makes one of us.
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We will not know if this was a successful move until either
1) the Celtics win a title
or
2) KG leaves the Celtics (whether by trade, FA or retirement)
Until then, there is little to really talk about. Both players have their pluses and minuses.
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"Yes, we will win more games with him, but anything short of a championship I will be HIGHLY disappointed"
we all will be, but for the love of God please no more al jefferson threads. please?
Agreed...we have be in limbo for the past 20 years....Kg gives us the best chance to win now versus a rebuilding mode...veterans win championships....not potential. We all know Al is going to be something special, but there is a 10% chance that he even comes close to Kg's overall play.
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Everytime Al Jefferson has a good game is there going to be a thread about him and how we should of kept him?...
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Everytime Al Jefferson has a good game is there going to be a thread about him and how we should of kept him?...
Yes...how about a Kg appreciation thread...this guy has been nothing less then a MVP contender. Do you think we would be 11-2 without the KG trade and have a shot at a title. This is what we all have been waiting for....a legit chance at #17...Big Al may have got us there, but no sooner than 3 years down the road...
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The ideal player would be a 22 year-old Jefferson who could defend like KG. Alas...
But I wish KG had some of Big Al's low post moves. KG is primarily a jump shooter and quite frankly isn't as dangerous offensively as big Al. But on defense, KG is much, much better.
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Since this is going to keep popping up anyways, why don't I just put a pin this one and make it the official 'Al Jefferson' thread?
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Al Jefferson's defense is equal to Eddy Curry or Zach Randolph. What makes the Spurs, Detroit, Chicago, Orlando, Miami, and to an extent Dallas so good. They have a real defensive presence in the middle. Why do the Suns never beat those teams, because they don't. Al Jefferson is a semi-all-star player with some injury history, KG is top 5 PF ever. Can we please bury this thread forever, I loved Jeff as much as anyone but the players are not comparable.
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Let me put it this way - NBA teams score 90ish PPG, and grabs 40 or so rebounds either way. A reasonably talented go-to guy on any team will put up stats either way. So a 20/10 on a notoriously depleted Timberwolves team means very little beyond: (1) AJ is reasonably talented, and (b) he gets minutes.
The jury is still out on whether or not Jefferson has what it takes to win games (also known as 'carry a team'). Up to now, the team performance has been par, in a way: a weak team that gets no wins. My guess is we won't really know until KG retires, anyhow.
So yeah, maybe we gave up a Tim Duncan with 10+ years left in his career. But what if we gave up on a Zach Randolph?
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Ok let me address this the best I can. I've always used the efficiency rating (I read it was Larry Bird's method back in the day) to determine the best statistical player in the NBA. It's pretty common sense. Points + rebounds + assists + blocks + steals. Subtract missed field goals, missed free throws and turnovers. I think I started paying attention to those stats back when NBA.com had Virtual GM (not sure if they still do it... just a form of fantasy basketball really) and they used that for determining the night's best performers. I was suddenly enlightened to why some ball hog shooting 41% is a bit overrated (like Iverson or Walker back in the day).
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp
Every freakin year KG is #1. He's dominant statistically. This year he's #2 behind only King James. We all see the impact that KG makes beyond the statistics. He's an outstanding team player, he's an outstanding defender, he intimidates opponents and keeps his teammates focused, he consistently makes the correct and intelligent decision. He's a brilliant player and impacts the game in every way imaginable. We are 11-2 because of him.
Big Al statistically is the 15th best player in the NBA right now. He's going to be fantastic. He will never be on the level of Dwight Howard (or maybe even Greg Oden?), but he'll be a solid scoring and rebounding big man. In a few years when KG has slipped and Big Al is nearing his peak (assuming nobody gets hurt), obviously Big Al will pass him at some point. Al will learn how to impact the game more. I don't expect he'll ever be on the level KG was, but he'll eventually pass an old and busted KG in terms of effectiveness. And of course... some day KG will be retired and Big Al will (assuming he doesn't get hurt) still be kicking ass.
But heres the thing... it's like squashing a butterfly in the past an changing the entire course of the future. By trading for KG, Ainge just squashed the butterfly in the present. Theres no telling what this will lead to. We are a legitimate threat. The Celtics are in the national consciousness. They are at the forefront of popular teams in the NBA. The team is one of the few that is pretty much carrying the league this season. Come playoff time, the thought of the Celtics making a serious run at the title will be huge news. We have suddenly developed a culture of winning and an aura of excellence.
I always felt like the modern Boston Celtics has an excellent organization going for them. I looked at them as a very professional team with solid owners willing to build a great team and entertaining experience for the fans, a GM who was at least in the top percentile of NBA GM intelligence and a staff that for the most part had a very pro situation happening. I mean to say that... even as we were losing nobody got out of line. We didn't have anyone barking to the media. We didn't have any crap going on like the Knicks or anything happening like the Jail Blazers. We had a solid, professional team. For the most part we kept Ricky Davis in line. Gary Payton came here and was impressed by how well run everything was. The problem was just our players weren't there. By bringing in Ray and KG, we have suddenly got excellence spewing out of every facet of the Boston Celtics. We are a team reborn and one to take notice of.
The Celtics had missed the entire modern era of NBA basketball, sports media and marketing. This team has been irrelevant since before Michael Jordan won his first title. The Celtics were meaningless. By taking this step, we are back. Heres my point: There is no telling what this will lead to. Perhaps we become a free agent destination. Perhaps as KG ages and these 20 million dollar contracts evaporate, some kid like Kevin Durant sees Boston as a viable destination. Amazing fans, amazing East Coast sports market, professional organization, a culture of winning and an aura of excellence. We had to take this step to reach the forefront of modern sports. From here on out, I don't see why we can't sustain it. The franchise had become a joke. Scoff at importance of relevance, but I think it will impact our future more than people anticipate. Enjoy the fact that we are a contender now... and watch what happens now that the Celtics are on the map. The league and the media is now understanding what it means to have a competitive basketball team in Boston... It's a position worth getting into -- even at the cost of a mediocre, "under the radar" Al Jefferson future.
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Everytime Al Jefferson has a good game is there going to be a thread about him and how we should of kept him?...
Yes
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Can we have an Al Jefferson thread without KG in the discussion please?
Lots of people put a lot of hope and appreciation into this kid and are still very interested in how he does.
Just Al Jefferson talk please. Every Al thread gets ruined because people act as if it's a slight on KG.
Can we just talk about Al and how he is doing please?
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By bringing in Ray and KG, we have suddenly got excellence spewing out of every facet of the Boston Celtics. We are a team reborn and one to take notice of.
Well. I don't see too much excellence spewing out of the head coach. Fortunately, KG and Shuttlesworth are such intelligent players that even Rivers may not be able to screw it up.
LarBird 33, everything you say about the Celtics in your post (which I did not quote in its entirety) is true. The only question is, for how long? The Celtics went for the here and now. It's like trading all your best young prospects for Johann Santana, which (if the rumors are true) both the Red Sox and the Yankees are thinking about doing. To what extent do you mortgage the future for the present? It's a dilemma that every GM faces in every sport.
We may not know for 2 years whether or not Ainge did the right thing.
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Dear Al,
I miss you. I hope everything is OK for you in the Twin Cities area. Congratulations on your new contract, I hope you use some of that money for some long johns because I hear it gets cold out there this time of year.
Hey I just wanted you to know how much we love you and how great you are and how we are not taking down any of our Al Jefferson posters - because we hate the Celtics front office for getting rid of you - especially Doc (even though he had the least to do with it - we just like to blame Doc for everything).
By the way did you see that the Celtics are now one of the top 2-3 teams in the NBA and that KG is amazing. I hope you come back to Boston soon, maybe when the Celts are deep in the playoffs and you have some free time.
warmly,
Celtic shut-ins
PS: Make sure you take good care of John Lester and the other guys, hopefully they can come back too - perhaps when Johan is pitching in the playoffs.
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By bringing in Ray and KG, we have suddenly got excellence spewing out of every facet of the Boston Celtics. We are a team reborn and one to take notice of.
Well. I don't see too much excellence spewing out of the head coach. Fortunately, KG and Shuttlesworth are such intelligent players that even Rivers may not be able to screw it up.
LarBird 33, everything you say about the Celtics in your post (which I did not quote in its entirety) is true. The only question is, for how long? The Celtics went for the here and now. It's like trading all your best young prospects for Johann Santana, which (if the rumors are true) both the Red Sox and the Yankees are thinking about doing. To what extent do you mortgage the future for the present? It's a dilemma that every GM faces in every sport.
We may not know for 2 years whether or not Ainge did the right thing.
Well I'm under the belief that we had to take that leap to the forefront. With the ESPN and shoe company sport culture completely alien to the Celtics... we HAD to do something to jump to the forefront. Once it becomes clear the Celtics are a powerhouse franchise... I don't think they'll die off again. Even in a few years when the stars are fading, I think we'll have the power and relevancy to make changes when needed and stay up there. Players will want to come here in the coming years. We have something legit to build on.
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By bringing in Ray and KG, we have suddenly got excellence spewing out of every facet of the Boston Celtics. We are a team reborn and one to take notice of.
Well. I don't see too much excellence spewing out of the head coach. Fortunately, KG and Shuttlesworth are such intelligent players that even Rivers may not be able to screw it up.
LarBird 33, everything you say about the Celtics in your post (which I did not quote in its entirety) is true. The only question is, for how long? The Celtics went for the here and now. It's like trading all your best young prospects for Johann Santana, which (if the rumors are true) both the Red Sox and the Yankees are thinking about doing. To what extent do you mortgage the future for the present? It's a dilemma that every GM faces in every sport.
We may not know for 2 years whether or not Ainge did the right thing.
Well I'm under the belief that we had to take that leap to the forefront. With the ESPN and shoe company sport culture completely alien to the Celtics... we HAD to do something to jump to the forefront. Once it becomes clear the Celtics are a powerhouse franchise... I don't think they'll die off again. Even in a few years when the stars are fading, I think we'll have the power and relevancy to make changes when needed and stay up there. Players will want to come here in the coming years. We have something legit to build on.
Maybe. Or more likely, the Celtics will be a one-shot wonder like the Miami Heat, who have no chance to win another championship with Shaq in decline and in fact will be lucky even to make the playoffs this year.
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It is kind of sad seeing Al in a different color. :-\
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Big Al had a couple nasty one handed sledge hammer slams the other night against the Mavs.
I wish they could post those clips.
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Or more likely, the Celtics will be a one-shot wonder like the Miami Heat, who have no chance to win another championship with Shaq in decline and in fact will be lucky even to make the playoffs this year.
Brickowski, I respectfully disagree. There is no way in hell that you can compare the current Cs with the Heat. Shaq is a 350lb often injured, soon to be 36 year old, who while he can still be dominant once in a while, he can't be on a regular basis. Besides Wade, IMO they don't have championship caliber players. On the other hand, while PP, KG and RA are getting older, they arguably have not peaked and could still be dominant for 2-4 years. Also, the Cs have a budding star, IMO, with their 21 year old pg and a decent starting 22 year old center. I just can't see them as "a one-shot wonder like the Miami Heat".
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Well, let's see where the Celtics are 3 years from now. Right now they are hitting on all cylinders. At some point their three "30-something" stars will begin to decline and we'll see what happens then. How will they reload?
Their draft picks will be very late first rounders, so they probably won't be able to do it that way, although Ainge has done a good job with late first round picks.
Some teams reload by moving their veteran stars to contending teams at the deadline in exchange for expirings and licks, but the Celtics have historically not operated that way. For example, they probably should have traded Parish and McHale in 1991 or 1992, but they did not.
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Well, let's see where the Celtics are 3 years from now. Right now they are hitting on all cylinders. At some point their three "30-something" stars will begin to decline and we'll see what happens then. How will they reload?
Their draft picks will be very late first rounders, so they probably won't be able to do it that way, although Ainge has done a good job with late first round picks.
"30 something"... please stop recycling what you read in the NY Post. Ray's 32, KG's 31, & PP is 30.... when did 30 become old? 32 even? Get over this BS.
As for the draft picks, yeah, late draft picks are worthless and there is no way AInge could get solid talent in those spots..... oh wait.... Ryan Gomes, BBD, etc etc.
This team has a 5 year window and during that time, Boston will become more attractive to free agents and the draft will not be as necessary to keep the momentum.
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From Brickowski: Reply with quoteQuote
Well, let's see where the Celtics are 3 years from now. Right now they are hitting on all cylinders. At some point their three "30-something" stars will begin to decline and we'll see what happens then. How will they reload?
Their draft picks will be very late first rounders, so they probably won't be able to do it that way, although Ainge has done a good job with late first round picks.
Some teams reload by moving their veteran stars to contending teams a the deadline in exchange for expirings and licks, but the Celtics have historically not operated that way. For example, they probably should have traded Parish and McHale in 1991 or 1992, but they did not.
Brick, this has always been the history of the Celtics. A great run, retirements, 2 off years, high draft picks and other pickups, and another competetive team for ten years. The difference is that you can no longer rebuild a team after a great run. No more minor leagues (4 college years), new rules, etc. This will happen to the Spurs and Suns soon, Detroit is on it's way, Miami is already on it's way to oblivion. What should the alternative be. We've already seen it. Let's enjoy the fun now and deal with the rebuilding when it's over. Also, that's part of Red's legacy--Loyalty to players who gave their all for the team. You could add Bird to Parish and McHale, but those players wanted to retire as Celtics. The team knew what would happen when they retired, but it's LOYALTY. One of the reasons why players used to want to play here. That's what Danny has been trying to bring back.
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The Spurs are already reloading from Europe. Tiago Splitter will be a very nice addition to their roster next year. Then Duncan will take a year off with an injury, they will lose 65 games, and reload via the draft.
For example, in 2009 there are at least three potential franchise players likely coming out: Ricky Rubio, Greg Monroe and DeAndre Jordan.
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Well, let's see where the Celtics are 3 years from now. Right now they are hitting on all cylinders. At some point their three "30-something" stars will begin to decline and we'll see what happens then. How will they reload?
Their draft picks will be very late first rounders, so they probably won't be able to do it that way, although Ainge has done a good job with late first round picks.
"30 something"... please stop recycling what you read in the NY Post. Ray's 32, KG's 31, & PP is 30.... when did 30 become old? 32 even? Get over this BS.
As for the draft picks, yeah, late draft picks are worthless and there is no way AInge could get solid talent in those spots..... oh wait.... Ryan Gomes, BBD, etc etc.
This team has a 5 year window and during that time, Boston will become more attractive to free agents and the draft will not be as necessary to keep the momentum.
Logical ramblings on Celticsblog? Can't be. Thanks for this post.
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The Heat got a championship. That's what you play for. All in all, I think I'd rather root for the Heat then the Mavs, who have had a good team for a long time now, but can't seem to win it. But the Heat aren't a great comparison anyway. They are in a completely untenable cap/tax situation. The C's are still being relatively smart with their money. You're right, of course, about the Spurs. But then again, their Euro players only look so good playing with Tim Duncan. Put them next to a very good PF(Big Al, a healthy Elton Brand) and I think you'd see those Spurs sturggle, and not look quite so smart.
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Brick, Once Duncan and Ginobli are gone the Spurs are toast. Parker cannot carry the team. Splitter will not make them competitive by himself and their high draft choice will be a high schooler playing with other probable high schoolers at that time. They will become last year's Celtics, this year's T'Wolves, Sonics, Portland, etc. This is the future of the NBA's good teams. There are no more Joe Barry Carroll for Robert Parish and the #3 pick deals anymore. The only way to get good players in the future will be to do what the C's did, get older players from teams who are doing what you suggested before, trading older players to reduce salaries and rebuild by going young. Let's see how long it takes the T'Wolves to become competitive. Would James Posey have wanted to go to the T'Wolves or Celtics this year. Luckily he even chose the C's over the Nets. That type of player will want to go to a team competing for a championship, not a rebuilding Spurs team. And When our guys retire the same will happen to us. We cannot gradually infuse enough good talent to remain really competitive once GPA retire.
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I didn't at first, but I now totally agree with and thank Danny Ainge for doing what he did this summer, despite the fact that I loved Al Jefferson. The one thing I'm really annoyed with Danny about is that now we are wanted on national TV. Last nite's TNT broadcast was terrible. So much talking about nothing and all the switching to other places. I just want Mike and Tommy to do all the games. But that's the price we fans pay.
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Brick, Once Duncan and Ginobli are gone the Spurs are toast. Parker cannot carry the team. Splitter will not make them competitive by himself and their high draft choice will be a high schooler playing with other probable high schoolers at that time. They will become last year's Celtics, this year's T'Wolves, Sonics, Portland, etc. This is the future of the NBA's good teams. There are no more Joe Barry Carroll for Robert Parish and the #3 pick deals anymore. The only way to get good players in the future will be to do what the C's did, get older players from teams who are doing what you suggested before, trading older players to reduce salaries and rebuild by going young. Let's see how long it takes the T'Wolves to become competitive. Would James Posey have wanted to go to the T'Wolves or Celtics this year. Luckily he even chose the C's over the Nets. That type of player will want to go to a team competing for a championship, not a rebuilding Spurs team. And When our guys retire the same will happen to us. We cannot gradually infuse enough good talent to remain really competitive once GPA retire.
I'm not so sure. It is possible to rebuild on the fly-- with some luck. San Antonio did it once, and they can do it again. No, Splitter won't make them a contender, but he's a valuable piece, and Parker is only 25. Ginobilli is the same age as Pierce.
The luck is in getting that special young player, like Tim Duncan or LeBron James, and Ricky Rubio may well be that kind of player.
We're all speculating here. Sure, it's harder to relaod now, with 30 teams in the league, than it used to be. But the really good GMs, like Colangelo and R.C. Buford, will manage to do it somehow.
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Edit - I hijacked this thread and made it the official Al Jefferson discussion thread. wdleehi
I know this has been talked about a trillion times already, but after watching last nights game I have come to the conclusion that we should have kept Big Al in Green. I LOVE KG and all that he brings....leadership, focus, intensity etc. but KG has had TWELVE years in this league already. Yes, we will win more games with him, but anything short of a championship I will be HIGHLY disappointed, and that is only with the fact that we gave up one of the best big men in the league and WILL be for the next 12 years. I was very excited about the trade, but honestly, I would have shipped out Pierce, got back a quality player, kept our pick and picked Yi and built around Al. Done, end of story. We would have made the playoffs where anything goes and even if we had gotten knocked out in the first or second round, that would have been experience to build with.
Last night was the first full Minny game I have watched and afterwards I felt that we gave up something really special in Al Jefferson.
Actually, there is NOTHING special about Al Jefferson. But, feel free to become a fan of the great, 2-10 team that is the Minnesota Timberwolves. In the meantime, I'll be rooting for my Celtics as they're blowing teams away by 45.
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Because I am soooooo sick of so-called Celtics fans always talking about the underacheiving Al Jefferson (though you wouldn't know it, based on how fans here talk about him) I am starting the anti-Jefferson thread.
Anyone else who is sick of hearing "fans" bring up Al Jeffeson instead of enjoying these historic times of watching the Cetlics blow teams away by 45 with one of the greatest Celtics teams in history, please respond.
Also, for those of you who love Al Jefferson so much, feel free to root him and his 2-10 Timberwolves team on. You can also talk about how much potential Al Jefferson has and how good of a player he'll be in the year 2017, while the Celtics are playing for a championship with KG, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and company.
PS: Even the Celts bench is better than half of the NBA starting teams.
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Watch it with the "fans" stuff. I would refer you to the site rules, which provide:
Do not label fellow posters in a way that is likely to provoke a negative response. Dependent upon context, examples include, but are not limited to, "fake fan", "bandwagon fan", "not a real fan", "hater", "koolaid drinker", etc.
I don't see how rooting for a former Celtic player calls somebody's loyalty into question.
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Because I am soooooo sick of so-called Celtics fans always talking about the underacheiving Al Jefferson (though you wouldn't know it, based on how fans here talk about him) I am starting the anti-Jefferson thread.
Anyone else who is sick of hearing "fans" bring up Al Jeffeson instead of enjoying these historic times of watching the Cetlics blow teams away by 45 with one of the greatest Celtics teams in history, please respond.
Also, for those of you who love Al Jefferson so much, feel free to root him and his 2-10 Timberwolves team on. You can also talk about how much potential Al Jefferson has and how good of a player he'll be in the year 2017, while the Celtics are playing for a championship with KG, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and company.
PS: Even the Celts bench is better than half of the NBA starting teams.
While I agree I'm sick of hearing about Jefferson every time he has a good game, I have to wonder how you could call him an underacheaver? The guys played very well for the Celts last year, and looks like he's doing even better this year.
I'm happy with the trade. Love having Garnett on the team, but I don't understand your need to knock Jefferson. I have no doubt that he is becoming one of the best big guys around.
BTW.. Don't get so carried away. Name me any team (okay, not the Knicks) that the Celtics' bench is better than their starters.
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Edit - I hijacked this thread and made it the official Al Jefferson discussion thread. wdleehi
I know this has been talked about a trillion times already, but after watching last nights game I have come to the conclusion that we should have kept Big Al in Green. I LOVE KG and all that he brings....leadership, focus, intensity etc. but KG has had TWELVE years in this league already. Yes, we will win more games with him, but anything short of a championship I will be HIGHLY disappointed, and that is only with the fact that we gave up one of the best big men in the league and WILL be for the next 12 years. I was very excited about the trade, but honestly, I would have shipped out Pierce, got back a quality player, kept our pick and picked Yi and built around Al. Done, end of story. We would have made the playoffs where anything goes and even if we had gotten knocked out in the first or second round, that would have been experience to build with.
Last night was the first full Minny game I have watched and afterwards I felt that we gave up something really special in Al Jefferson.
Actually, there is NOTHING special about Al Jefferson. But, feel free to become a fan of the great, 2-10 team that is the Minnesota Timberwolves. In the meantime, I'll be rooting for my Celtics as they're blowing teams away by 45.
Of course there's nothing special about Jefferson. You can probably name a dozen or so crappy players who average 21 and 11 when they were 22, right?
PS: If it's easier, name the 15 or so teams that are worse than our bench.
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As I said earler, Jefferson is a special offensive player and a great rebounder. But KG does two things much better than Big Al: pass the ball and play defense. Al will learn to be a good passer in time. He's just raw and needs to understand where his teammates will be.
But if don't think Jefferson will ever be as good as KG defensively. The guy is like a cat. He's everywhere, making up for everyone else's mistakes, and bringing the kind of defensive intensity that I haven't seen from a Celtic since (dare I say it?) Bill Russell.
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Not sure whether this deserves its own thread or not, but I posted over TWolvesblog.com asking for fans there to give their impressions of Al so far this year. A lot of us have been following him but I thought it'd be interesting to hear their perspective.
Only a couple of responses so far, and no real surprises, but it may grow:
http://www.twolvesblog.com/fireboard/minnesota-timberwolves-den/4290-impressions-of-al-so-far-for-celtics-fans.html#4290
A couple of things on my end from visiting that site. First, it seems pretty deserted. we really need to count ourselves among the lucky here in Beantown that we have such an active (and well-run of course) blog.
Second, it appears that Jerry Sichting is not only an assistant but coached his first game the other night. By my count that brings the number of 85-86 Celtics who have coached an NBA game to seven. That has to be a record. And who knows, maybe the Chief will make it. I would be slightly more surprised to see David Thirdkill get the nod, but you never know.
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Big Al's knees do seem to be a source of concern. A potential worrysome comparison could be to Pervis Ellison - I know he had the college experience, and thus a bit more wear on his knees to begin with, but his first 3 seasons, showed steady progress towards being a double double guy (capping with a 20 pt 11 rebound year in 91-92) then his decline thanks to knee problems left him as a role player who was lucky to go half a season... Anyone else see a potential comparison here?
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Not sure whether this deserves its own thread or not, but I posted over TWolvesblog.com asking for fans there to give their impressions of Al so far this year. A lot of us have been following him but I thought it'd be interesting to hear their perspective.
Only a couple of responses so far, and no real surprises, but it may grow:
http://www.twolvesblog.com/fireboard/minnesota-timberwolves-den/4290-impressions-of-al-so-far-for-celtics-fans.html#4290
A couple of things on my end from visiting that site. First, it seems pretty deserted. we really need to count ourselves among the lucky here in Beantown that we have such an active (and well-run of course) blog.
Second, it appears that Jerry Sichting is not only an assistant but coached his first game the other night. By my count that brings the number of 85-86 Celtics who have coached an NBA game to seven. That has to be a record. And who knows, maybe the Chief will make it. I would be slightly more surprised to see David Thirdkill get the nod, but you never know.
It's really not that deserted, all things considered. First off, you posted in the morning and throughout the middle of the day it tends to slow down (due to people at school and working.)
You have to keep in mind that the Celticsblog forums are probably one of the most active forums of any sports blog on the internet (at least in the United States.) Of course, in comparison to these forums they will seem deserted.
Lastly, what are your thoughts on KG if I may ask? Is he all that you expected? Better than you expected? Worse?
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Not sure whether this deserves its own thread or not, but I posted over TWolvesblog.com asking for fans there to give their impressions of Al so far this year. A lot of us have been following him but I thought it'd be interesting to hear their perspective.
Only a couple of responses so far, and no real surprises, but it may grow:
http://www.twolvesblog.com/fireboard/minnesota-timberwolves-den/4290-impressions-of-al-so-far-for-celtics-fans.html#4290
A couple of things on my end from visiting that site. First, it seems pretty deserted. we really need to count ourselves among the lucky here in Beantown that we have such an active (and well-run of course) blog.
Second, it appears that Jerry Sichting is not only an assistant but coached his first game the other night. By my count that brings the number of 85-86 Celtics who have coached an NBA game to seven. That has to be a record. And who knows, maybe the Chief will make it. I would be slightly more surprised to see David Thirdkill get the nod, but you never know.
It's really not that deserted, all things considered. First off, you posted in the morning and throughout the middle of the day it tends to slow down (due to people at school and working.)
You have to keep in mind that the Celticsblog forums are probably one of the most active forums of any sports blog on the internet (at least in the United States.) Of course, in comparison to these forums they will seem deserted.
Lastly, what are your thoughts on KG if I may ask? Is he all that you expected? Better than you expected? Worse?
I hope you didn't take offense. As you can see from the next sentence, I was really just counting us among the lucky ones rather than casting aspersions on anyone else.
As far as KG, I can't speak for everyone but I'll give you my two cents. (See the "what I don't like about Garnett" thread here for an overall view).
My personal view? We are all blown away by his intensity and professionalism, which are on a par with the best Celtics ever (Larry, notably, since few of use remember Russell). I personally have been most surprised by how well he has improved our team defense, which was atrocious last year. It is really amazing to see how much more quickly everyone seems to be getting to the right defensive spots, and helping. (People will say that Thibodeau is responsible, but if it were as easy as hiring a coach there would be many better defensive teams in the league).
I can't say I've been disappointed by anything except the fact that I think the Celtics should initiate the offense with KG on the low block more (even if he ends up passing out of a double). But that's a complaint about the offensive sets more than KG. Some people seem to be upset that KG doesn't shoot more - but what did they expect? That's been an issue for his whole career. Did people think that you'd take him off a team with maybe two other legitimate NBA starters, put him on a team with two other All-Stars, and he'd shoot *more*? I don't get it.
Thanks for checking in. I have enjoyed reading those posts about Al.
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Not sure whether this deserves its own thread or not, but I posted over TWolvesblog.com asking for fans there to give their impressions of Al so far this year. A lot of us have been following him but I thought it'd be interesting to hear their perspective.
Only a couple of responses so far, and no real surprises, but it may grow:
http://www.twolvesblog.com/fireboard/minnesota-timberwolves-den/4290-impressions-of-al-so-far-for-celtics-fans.html#4290
A couple of things on my end from visiting that site. First, it seems pretty deserted. we really need to count ourselves among the lucky here in Beantown that we have such an active (and well-run of course) blog.
Second, it appears that Jerry Sichting is not only an assistant but coached his first game the other night. By my count that brings the number of 85-86 Celtics who have coached an NBA game to seven. That has to be a record. And who knows, maybe the Chief will make it. I would be slightly more surprised to see David Thirdkill get the nod, but you never know.
It's really not that deserted, all things considered. First off, you posted in the morning and throughout the middle of the day it tends to slow down (due to people at school and working.)
You have to keep in mind that the Celticsblog forums are probably one of the most active forums of any sports blog on the internet (at least in the United States.) Of course, in comparison to these forums they will seem deserted.
Lastly, what are your thoughts on KG if I may ask? Is he all that you expected? Better than you expected? Worse?
I hope you didn't take offense. As you can see from the next sentence, I was really just counting us among the lucky ones rather than casting aspersions on anyone else.
As far as KG, I can't speak for everyone but I'll give you my two cents. (See the "what I don't like about Garnett" thread here for an overall view).
My personal view? We are all blown away by his intensity and professionalism, which are on a par with the best Celtics ever (Larry, notably, since few of use remember Russell). I personally have been most surprised by how well he has improved our team defense, which was atrocious last year. It is really amazing to see how much more quickly everyone seems to be getting to the right defensive spots, and helping. (People will say that Thibodeau is responsible, but if it were as easy as hiring a coach there would be many better defensive teams in the league).
I can't say I've been disappointed by anything except the fact that I think the Celtics should initiate the offense with KG on the low block more (even if he ends up passing out of a double). But that's a complaint about the offensive sets more than KG. Some people seem to be upset that KG doesn't shoot more - but what did they expect? That's been an issue for his whole career. Did people think that you'd take him off a team with maybe two other legitimate NBA starters, put him on a team with two other All-Stars, and he'd shoot *more*? I don't get it.
Thanks for checking in. I have enjoyed reading those posts about Al.
No, I'm offended... it's not like that. It's kinda my bad because the first time I read your entire post (but didn't respond), and then when I came back later to respond I got caught up in that one sentence without re-reading it all again. So yeah, no harm done.
Good stuff about KG. As you could probably guess, he was most of the posters from Twolvesblog's favorite Minnesota athlete ever. I'm glad he went to Boston because I've been following them for a few years and I'd say the C's are my second "favorite" team, if I can say that. That was even before we traded KG to you guys. So yeah, I wouldn't consider myself a bandwagon fan or anything like that.
I agree that your defensive improvement is most likely attributed to KG rather than Thib (for the most part.) I'm sure Thib does help things, but when you've got someone like KG, it's just amazing what he can do for the rest of the team as well. Also agreed that there is no way one should think that KG would go to Boston with PP and RA and shoot MORE, that's insane. That's never been KG's mindset anyways. From the games I've watched this season, it is odd that they don't run the ball through him from the low block more than they do. Then again, KG has always initiated the offense from all over the court when he was in Minny. Hopefully Coach of the Month can get things figured out. If he does, you guys will be golden.
Glad you enjoyed the posts about Al. Feel free to stop back to Twolvesblog if you've ever got any questions or comments. I browse these forums every now and then, but I hardly ever post due to time constraints. So if there's anything you guys ever want input about, just ask.
Have a good one~
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Anyone got anything?
http://www.twolvesblog.com/fireboard/minnesota-timberwolves-den/4347-big-als-new-name-contest.html (http://www.twolvesblog.com/fireboard/minnesota-timberwolves-den/4347-big-als-new-name-contest.html)
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You guys really don't like "Big Al", huh?
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You guys really don't like "Big Al", huh?
Personally, I don't mind it too much. It does seem kind of bland however, and he's not really all that "big" anymore... especially after he lost all that weight two off-seasons ago.
I'm sure everyone will probably keep calling him "Big Al", but maybe someone can come up with something cooler and/or more fitting.
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He has a nickname ... It is Big Al.
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You can't change nicknames. Once you get them - they stick forever. Big Al called had that coined back in HS - perhaps grade school. It wouldn't have matter if he ended up playing PG - that's his name. Just like Bassy will always be Bassy - and the Truth will keep that name too.
Pete
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Personally, I don't mind it too much. It does seem kind of bland however, and he's not really all that "big" anymore... especially after he lost all that weight two off-seasons ago.
If that's the way you put it, he's never been 'big', just a bit out of shape. :)
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Why does he need a new nickname? Just like in Boston his biggest need is
teammates that can play. How about "The First Option"?
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how about.... "I miss Scal" Al
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how about.... "I miss Scal" Al
Hahaha that was kinda funny... ;D
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What is the problem with his game latly? Quite a few weak games for him latly.... Idk but I think I am going to blame this on Twolves coaching. They don't give him nearly enough touches. He should probably get about 30 post touches a night atleast. Hes a all-star this year or the next for sure.
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Al Jefferson's numbers as the Wolves defeat Phoenix
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4 stls, 2 dimes and 1 PF!!
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Vs PHX, AL logged 32pts (13 of 26) and 20RBs (6 offensive), but also
he also displayed some disruptive defence w/steals and a block, earning a Schaller "mini-slam." verrry niiice
http://schallertpr.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=743176
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haha if the raptors had jefferson and we traded for Kevin Garnett, id just forget about al. his defense is gonna be a liability his whole career, so unless the celtics somehow got a defensive force as a center/pf to cover up al's mistakes, i dont think the celtics would ever have gone deep in the playoffs. good scorer and rebounder, though.
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People that have frequented the Celtics chat during games know that I have always been a big supporter of Al Jefferson. Jefferson is playing huge right now. And it is important to remember that we did not get KG for "nothing" The celtics gave up a player who is going to be an all star for years and years to come. A all star that has post moves the NBA has not seen in twenty years. Now I am not saying trading for KG was not the right move. All I am saying is that Al Jeff is great right now, averaging 37 minutes per game, 20 points, and he is the seventh best rebounder in the game at a little over 11 boards a game. The timberwolves are struggling badly as a team, but there is only so much AJ can do. After all, he is playing with the same cast of scrubs the celtics had. Their wins and losses cannot be faulted on Jefferson. The guy gives 110% every night.
But, like I said before I am all for the KG trade. But it does beckon the question. What would the celtics record look like if we had Jefferson instead of Garnett?
It would be great to know the outcomes of decisions before you could make them. But I know that is not how life works. So basically what I am saying is that, the KG trade will be GREAT if we win a title, but if we do not win a title, I would of loved to have seen Al Jefferon stay in green.
Simply put, Al Jefferson, how can you not like the guy?
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I wish we could all just realize that Al Jefferson is no longer a Celtic and therefore is no longer our concern. What our record without KG and with Jefferson would look like is irrelevant.
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The defense, intensity, passion, accountability, leadership, and heart that Kevin Garnett has infused into the Boston Celtics outweighs the roughly 1 point and 1 rebound advantage Big Al has over him right now by a landslide. You should also notice he is upping his game to the KG 'norms' of about 24-12-5 for big games (Detroit and Orlando most recently) while continuing to be selfless and built on the team unity he has been striving for during blowouts of lesser teams.
As a Timberwolves fan, I am very appreciative to have Big Al for the next several years, but I think also as a Timberwolves fan (something I'm sure others can agree with) I felt like my heart was ripped out when KG was traded (in a sports fan sense). I honestly cannot think of a single player right now that endeared him/herself to their fans in a greater manner.
Celtics record right now with Al instead of KG? Meh... probably somewhere between 15-10 and 18-7 or so.
Timberwolves with KG instead of Al? Probably about 10-16.
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The interesting question here regarding if the C's had AJ instead of KG is who else would they have?
RR, RA, PP, and KP would all be there. But Posey, House and Pollard probably wouldnt, and they have been contributors. Would DA have been able to pull of a trade with the other chips involved in the trade? Who knows. I think thats the real x factor when trying to determine just how good the trade was.
A lineup of RR RA PP AK and AJ could have been something good. There were some (semi) realistic trade ideas getting Gasol here without losing Jefferson. In the end, theres a lot of hypotheticals that have to go down...because there was no way DA was going to go into this year with Telfair and Ratliff still on the roster.
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One area that would definately be a decline in if Jefferson was here instead of KG: Defense. And you know the saying 'championships are won with defense'
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I liked Big Al as a player. I know he is no longer a Celtic but he is one of my favorite players to watch. I root for the Celtics above all but I like to watch some of my favorite players when its an off day or a late game on tv. It will be interesting to see if he ever does become an All-star player. I think he will but I've read some posts here that have had some argument to that.
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I thought we'd win 50-55 wins with Al on board as long as we dumped the youth. And if we got a quality starter for Theo we'd be around 60 wins and similar enough to where we are with KG (less D, more O).
Ray Allen and the dumping of the youth would make that much of a difference, plus some old fashioned good health.
Man that youth bugs the heck out of me, I feel sorry for Sota every time I see them play. Catastrohpic collection of players similar to NY. Just can't function together.
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I wish we could all just realize that Al Jefferson is no longer a Celtic and therefore is no longer our concern. What our record without KG and with Jefferson would look like is irrelevant.
i disagree. i keep an eye on big al and the wolves and hope they all play great. their record stinks, but i hope they improve. i think everyone is happy with KG, and happy with that trade, but i wish the best for gomes, big al, and gerald. i am even happy that telfair is showing signs of improvement.
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I thought we'd win 50-55 wins with Al on board as long as we dumped the youth. And if we got a quality starter for Theo we'd be around 60 wins and similar enough to where we are with KG (less D, more O).
Ray Allen and the dumping of the youth would make that much of a difference, plus some old fashioned good health.
Can't say I agree. Adding Ray Allen and another vet or so in exchange for the youth does not make a 24-win team into a 60-win team, no matter what the health situation. However, I do agree that if you want to speculate, then the place to work from is to assume that the Ray Allen deal happens but another smaller deal instead of the KG deal happens.
The interesting question here regarding if the C's had AJ instead of KG is who else would they have?
RR, RA, PP, and KP would all be there. But Posey, House and Pollard probably wouldnt, and they have been contributors. Would DA have been able to pull of a trade with the other chips involved in the trade? Who knows. I think thats the real x factor when trying to determine just how good the trade was.
A lineup of RR RA PP AK and AJ could have been something good. There were some (semi) realistic trade ideas getting Gasol here without losing Jefferson...
That sounds very realistic but I still think you're looking at a 50-win team at best. You just can't underestimate what KG has brought to this team.
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I wish we could all just realize that Al Jefferson is no longer a Celtic and therefore is no longer our concern. What our record without KG and with Jefferson would look like is irrelevant.
i disagree. i keep an eye on big al and the wolves and hope they all play great. their record stinks, but i hope they improve. i think everyone is happy with KG, and happy with that trade, but i wish the best for gomes, big al, and gerald. i am even happy that telfair is showing signs of improvement.
I agree, there's no reason to not be sentimental and to wish these guys all the best. I had my sights set on Al Jefferson prior to the draft, hoping Ainge would pick him. I have a full game tape of a LVSL game just prior to the start of his rookie season. I hope it's worth some money someday. I still like Ryan Gomes and hope the C's can get him back at some point. As for Telfair, I'm also happy that he seems to be turning a corner. I've always felt a bit of attachment to him as I was born in Brooklyn, not far from Coney Island.
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I refuse to just forget Big Al. I just got tickets to the twolves at celtics game for christmas, cant wait to see the reaction he gets when the lineups are announced.
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I wish Al the best, but there is no looking back. I'll check the boxscores almost every night to see how Big Al, Gomes & Telfair are doing, but no regrets...not even close.
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I refuse to just forget Big Al. I just got tickets to the twolves at celtics game for christmas, cant wait to see the reaction he gets when the lineups are announced.
Personally, I'm more interested in the reaction that Antoine gets when he comes off the bench during the game.... ;)
The journey back to Celtic Glory started with HIM and I hope he gets the applause he deserves.....before we pound his team. ;)
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Dwight Howard vs. Big AL
23.1 14.9 2.7
20.3 12.3 1.3
Dwight has him beat but also has enough help where he's not triple teamed like AL is.
Dwight is better defensively by a landslide.
But Howard can't play in crunch time, he can't get his own shot off and he can't shoot free throws.
Howard is going to need a Kobe, Wade type in order to be succesful in the playoffs.
Dwight's playing with some Vets. AL is playing with Telfair.
I'm not saying Al's better...I'm saying I bet AL wins a championship before Dwight. And that I'd rather build a team around AL.
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I was recently snooping around the most recent NBA All-Star votes, and not surprising whatsoever, Al Jefferson is not in the top 9 for either forwards or centers. People who are ahead? Luis Scola, Andris Biedrins, the list goes on and on, and quite frankly, I am extremely upset. This once again proves my point that the All Star Game is a popularity contest, and nothing more than that.
Al is having his best year yet, and is singlehandedly tearing apart the western conference power forward position. In my opinion, he is the best low post player in the league. Yet, he does not even get a nod with regards to the All Star Game? that is ridiculous.
on a side note, i think it is funny that Vince Carter and Gilbert Arenas are 4 and 5 on the guards list, in front of players like Michael Redd and Chauncey Billups, who are not only actually playing right now (unlike Gil) but are also good all around players.
On another side note, i think the fact that Yi Jianlian is 5th in forward votes ahead of caron butler and other PROVES that asia and china has a huge role in the nba market.
All in All, the NBA All Star Game is a total and complete failure.
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I think that the Ballot's should be limited to players that can truly be considered above average or all-stars. Or they should have some type of Criteria statistically that would limit
bumlimited players from making the list. I wasn't shocked about Al getting no love until you said Scola was ahead. At the very least players should be obligated to play a certain amount of games to make the ballot.
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China has a huge affect on the voting. Yi is 5th among EC forwards and thats as a write in candidate. If they put him on the ballot next year, he starts ahead of either KG or LeBron which would be a travesty.
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I thought everyone already knew it was a popularity contest
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Big Al has 24 points in the first half against the suns tonight. I'll keep yall posted on this
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Big Al has 24 points in the first half against the suns tonight. I'll keep yall posted on this
They were 20 piecing the Suns there. Let the lead slip a bit at the end of the quarter. Be interesting to see if they can hang on. Wolves have played pretty well the last few games, although with little reward.
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Big Al has 24 points in the first half against the suns tonight. I'll keep yall posted on this
30 by end of the 3rd. Keep it up Big Al! On target for a 40 pt game!
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He has 36 right now and is getting trippled every time he touches the ball, I mean the defense is blitzing him. There is still 5 minutes left so maybe he will, I hope he can get atlesat 40
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He has 39 with 2 minutes left
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Last time I checked, Al Jefferson is no longer a Celtic. Also, when he was a Celtic, the Celtics were a horrible team. So, why are we still talking about him instead of concentrating on the current Celtics and enjoying their best season since the late 50's?!!!!
Also isn't the record of Al Jefferson current team the worse in the NBA?
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Im enjoying watching this Celtics team, I talk abot them alot.
I also like watching Big Al develop and im sure there are atleast 100 people on here that about him as well. He should get talked about when he has his career game.
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if you dont care about al jefferson stay out of the al jefferson thread... Al will always be loved because we saw him develop into a great player and because he loved being a celtic. I for one am VERY excited to be in the garden when he makes return this friday. If you loved the celtics last year you should love Big Al.
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Last time I checked, Al Jefferson is no longer a Celtic. Also, when he was a Celtic, the Celtics were a horrible team. So, why are we still talking about him instead of concentrating on the current Celtics and enjoying their best season since the late 50's?!!!!
Also isn't the record of Al Jefferson current team the worse in the NBA?
Why are you wasting time reading and replying to this thread and not concentrating on the Celtics?
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Al Jefferon is easily the best power forward in the west. And arguably the best in the game.
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Al Jefferson is not the best overall power forward cuz that goes to kg, but in terms of offensive talent he is defnitely top two or three in the whole league. Probably u saw the best two last nite in him and amare staudamire. The wolves are slowly coming along and they are lucky not to have doc as their coach.
If they can get a decent defensive minded center either by next years draft or a guy like jeff foster they will be hard to play against. I wish them well
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Al Jefferon is easily the best power forward in the west. And arguably the best in the game.
Offensively, the man is right up there with just about anyone. But the name "Zach Randolph" has been used in relation to Big Al's defensive efficacy, and that is a very large danger sign. He doesn't move very well, particularly laterally, and for all the work he has put in to make himself a dominant offensive force, it appears at times that very little of that focus has been put on the other end. He'll need to do that before he becomes truly elite, although he is no doubt a budding star, and I'm thrilled to watch him develop.
As of now, Boozer and Duncan (among perhaps a couple of others) get my nod of Big Al. That's no disrespect; just a part of the growing process for him.
-sw
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Al Jefferon is easily the best power forward in the west. And arguably the best in the game.
Offensively, the man is right up there with just about anyone. But the name "Zach Randolph" has been used in relation to Big Al's defensive efficacy, and that is a very large danger sign. He doesn't move very well, particularly laterally, and for all the work he has put in to make himself a dominant offensive force, it appears at times that very little of that focus has been put on the other end. He'll need to do that before he becomes truly elite, although he is no doubt a budding star, and I'm thrilled to watch him develop.
As of now, Boozer and Duncan (among perhaps a couple of others) get my nod of Big Al. That's no disrespect; just a part of the growing process for him.
-sw
I cannot believe you would compare him to Zach!! Sure....they both have deficiencies on defense but unlike Zach, Big Al DOES NOT COME WITH THE "BAGGAGE" THAT ZACH DOES. AND NEVER WILL, IMO. *THAT* right there vaults him way over Randolph.....
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Al Jefferon is easily the best power forward in the west. And arguably the best in the game.
Offensively, the man is right up there with just about anyone. But the name "Zach Randolph" has been used in relation to Big Al's defensive efficacy, and that is a very large danger sign. He doesn't move very well, particularly laterally, and for all the work he has put in to make himself a dominant offensive force, it appears at times that very little of that focus has been put on the other end. He'll need to do that before he becomes truly elite, although he is no doubt a budding star, and I'm thrilled to watch him develop.
As of now, Boozer and Duncan (among perhaps a couple of others) get my nod of Big Al. That's no disrespect; just a part of the growing process for him.
-sw
I cannot believe you would compare him to Zach!! Sure....they both have deficiencies on defense but unlike Zach, Big Al DOES NOT COME WITH THE "BAGGAGE" THAT ZACH DOES. AND NEVER WILL, IMO. *THAT* right there vaults him way over Randolph.....
I think that perhaps I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I wasn't comparing Jefferson to Randolph as a player or as a character in any regard. Overall, there is no contest between him. But it is folks in Minnesota (I believe it was Britt Robson of The Rake, but I'll try and get you a link) are reporting that Jefferson's defense has been compared to that of Zach Randolph. As I wrote "in relation to Al's defensive efficacy." Randolph is a putrid defender, and as of now, so is Al. I'll hope that it isn't for the same reason -- Z-Bo is a no-effort guy; I can't imagine that being the case with Al. If you've read my work here, you'll know that I hate having to put the names in the same sentence (I'm no Z-Bo fan), but the point was that Jefferson's defense needs to take a quantum leap forward before we can classify him as the West's best power forward, bar none. That's all. No other comparisons to Zach apply.
-sw
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It's interesting on Big Al's defense, looking at the numbers on 82games.com (http://www.82games.com/0708/07MIN11C.HTM). When he's used as a power forward, his defense looks pretty decent; he's holding opposing players to a 46.9% fg%, and his opponent's PER is 15.9, which isn't bad at all. He holds his man to per-48 averages of 18.6 points and 9.9 rebounds. Those aren't spectacular numbers, but in terms of defense, that's probably above-average.
The problem is that the Twolves use Big Al primarily as a center, where his numbers are pretty bad. Opposing players shoot 56.1% against Big Al from the center position, and he is giving up 15.5 rebounds per 48 minutes (and pulling down 15.1, which suggests that as a center, Big Al is actually getting outrebounded.) The scoring numbers aren't so bad -- 18.1 points per 48 -- but the PER is terrible: 20.8.
As always, these numbers are subject to the usual flaws; just because an opposing center puts up big stats when Big Al was in the game does not necessarily imply it was his fault. A lot comes down to defense scheme, and I'm not sure how closely 82games.com scrutinizes actual matchups to make sure these numbers are accurate. Still, the above would suggest that Big Al has a long way to go before becoming an adequate defensive center, which is probably to be expected since it's not his most natural position.
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hobbs yeah 82 games has these data but other than al jefferson up front they have nobody in minny. In fact i don't think they have anyone else over 6'10. Al definitely needs a partner up front
I know we have garnett and we are playing amazing so far, but i still have this big curiosity how decent a more experienced al, gomes, telfair would have played with pierce + 5th pick or ray allen.
al is awsome and enjoyable to watch
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I still can't wait to see if we can bring Al back in 5 years. Hopefully he would be willing to come back home.
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hobbs yeah 82 games has these data but other than al jefferson up front they have nobody in minny. In fact i don't think they have anyone else over 6'10. Al definitely needs a partner up front
I know we have garnett and we are playing amazing so far, but i still have this big curiosity how decent a more experienced al, gomes, telfair would have played with pierce + 5th pick or ray allen.
al is awsome and enjoyable to watch
They do have someone over 6'10....Michael Doleac. :P
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It's interesting on Big Al's defense, looking at the numbers on 82games.com (http://www.82games.com/0708/07MIN11C.HTM). When he's used as a power forward, his defense looks pretty decent; he's holding opposing players to a 46.9% fg%, and his opponent's PER is 15.9, which isn't bad at all. He holds his man to per-48 averages of 18.6 points and 9.9 rebounds. Those aren't spectacular numbers, but in terms of defense, that's probably above-average.
The problem is that the Twolves use Big Al primarily as a center, where his numbers are pretty bad. Opposing players shoot 56.1% against Big Al from the center position, and he is giving up 15.5 rebounds per 48 minutes (and pulling down 15.1, which suggests that as a center, Big Al is actually getting outrebounded.) The scoring numbers aren't so bad -- 18.1 points per 48 -- but the PER is terrible: 20.8.
As always, these numbers are subject to the usual flaws; just because an opposing center puts up big stats when Big Al was in the game does not necessarily imply it was his fault. A lot comes down to defense scheme, and I'm not sure how closely 82games.com scrutinizes actual matchups to make sure these numbers are accurate. Still, the above would suggest that Big Al has a long way to go before becoming an adequate defensive center, which is probably to be expected since it's not his most natural position.
His defensive numbers were the same last year. Good as a forward, bad as a center.
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How about a 40 point 19 rebound in a win against the Nets. Wow, he is making a bid to take Boozers spot on the all star team.
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How about a 40 point 19 rebound in a win against the Nets. Wow, he is making a bid to take Boozers spot on the all star team.
Complete with a 2 for 2 from the FT line with 6 seconds to go to ice it :)
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There is an interesting thread on the Twolves board over at RealGM. It was started by a guy called Kingly who apparently knows Big Al. The thread is about the trash talk coming from KG in the game but it points out the Al wants another big to play with. It goes on to say he feels he is playing 2 on 1 when going for rebounds.
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There is an interesting thread on the Twolves board over at RealGM. It was started by a guy called Kingly who apparently knows Big Al. The thread is about the trash talk coming from KG in the game but it points out the Al wants another big to play with. It goes on to say he feels he is playing 2 on 1 when going for rebounds.
TP, i'll be sure to check that out.
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There is an interesting thread on the Twolves board over at RealGM. It was started by a guy called Kingly who apparently knows Big Al. The thread is about the trash talk coming from KG in the game but it points out the Al wants another big to play with. It goes on to say he feels he is playing 2 on 1 when going for rebounds.
Seeing that the other folks on the Twolves masquerading as big men are 6'7, 6'7 and 6'9, I think I can understand his sentiments.
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There is an interesting thread on the Twolves board over at RealGM. It was started by a guy called Kingly who apparently knows Big Al. The thread is about the trash talk coming from KG in the game but it points out the Al wants another big to play with. It goes on to say he feels he is playing 2 on 1 when going for rebounds.
Seeing that the other folks on the Twolves masquerading as big men are 6'7, 6'7 and 6'9, I think I can understand his sentiments.
Yeah considering Doleac and Ratliff are the only other players taller than 6'10 on the Twolves roster.
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There is an interesting thread on the Twolves board over at RealGM. It was started by a guy called Kingly who apparently knows Big Al. The thread is about the trash talk coming from KG in the game but it points out the Al wants another big to play with. It goes on to say he feels he is playing 2 on 1 when going for rebounds.
Seeing that the other folks on the Twolves masquerading as big men are 6'7, 6'7 and 6'9, I think I can understand his sentiments.
Yeah considering Doleac and Ratliff are the only other players taller than 6'10 on the Twolves roster.
Well, having Doleac and Ratliff is as good as... not having them at all. But then again, the FA market for big men is so bad that the Lakers had to sign DJ Mbenga after Bynum went down.
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There is an interesting thread on the Twolves board over at RealGM. It was started by a guy called Kingly who apparently knows Big Al. The thread is about the trash talk coming from KG in the game but it points out the Al wants another big to play with. It goes on to say he feels he is playing 2 on 1 when going for rebounds.
Seeing that the other folks on the Twolves masquerading as big men are 6'7, 6'7 and 6'9, I think I can understand his sentiments.
Yeah considering Doleac and Ratliff are the only other players taller than 6'10 on the Twolves roster.
Well, having Doleac and Ratliff is as good as... not having them at all. But then again, the FA market for big men is so bad that the Lakers had to sign DJ Mbenga after Bynum went down.
Haha I know what you mean, there are no good FA big men. I feel bad for Al. He and Gomes are putting up solid numbers but they are once again on a bad team....
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I'm sorry if I take this thread in a different direction but...
What, or how big if you will, are the chances of Al making
the A.S.G.? I can't remember his total votes. Does anyone have
a link to total votes? I missed maybe 2 days of All-Star voting
and my most "consistent" (in terms of who I voted for) A.S. team
selections look like this:
(and yes, I picked these players mostly by heart ;))
East
G Ray Allen (pleeeease step it up, soon)
G Mo Williams (just to vote for someone other than Kidd, etc.)
F Paul Pierce (my man, the Truth!!!)
F Kevin Garnett (the perfect fit)
C Dwight Howard (monster)
West
G Baron Davis (B-Diddy)
G Kobe Bryant (like him or not, mr. Entertainment)
F Kevin Durant (this kid will rock)
F Al Jefferson (the Future)
C Amaré Stoudamire (dang)
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23. (28) Minnesota Timberwolves – As if Al Jefferson's recent 39-and-15 and 40-and-19 performances weren't reason enough to love him, the Wolves' talented young forward apparently is just as sharp with his wit. According to the Pioneer Press, Kevin Garnett made a point of reminding Jefferson of his many All-Star selections by shouting "Eleven years! Eleven years!" during their encounter last week. Jefferson's response? "I told him we both have one thing in common – no championships. He didn't like that too much."
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Pretty sweet 14-8 first quarter T-Wolves vs. Bulls tonight...Sorry I'm missing that one ;)
Big Al's got 12 boards at the half anyhow.
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Are AJ and RG becoming a legit one, two punch in this league? AJs 26 and 20, to go along with RGs 25 and 10. Plus holding the Bulls to 67 points someone must have played some D, I see Big Al had 2 blocks, and RG had 3 steals. It looks like they forced alot off turnovers as a team. Way to go guys.
PS Bassy also had ten assists.
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Are AJ and RG becoming a legit one, two punch in this league? AJs 26 and 20, to go along with RGs 25 and 10. Plus holding the Bulls to 67 points someone must have played some D, I see Big Al had 2 blocks, and RG had 3 steals. It looks like they forced alot off turnovers as a team. Way to go guys.
PS Bassy also had ten assists.
Ryan Gomes is a guy people admire and he's making some things happen, but ultimately, the Wolves must have a long defensive presence to team up with Al, and Gomes can't give them that. Even teams with great defensive big men try to pair them up with another long defender if they can. He can give them backup minutes at PF and he can compete for the 3 spot, but Gomes at PF with Al creates the same problems for the Wolves that we saw with the C's last year. They can't protect the rim. If Al could play with a real PF/C defender, the Wolves would make a major leap forward.
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Are AJ and RG becoming a legit one, two punch in this league? AJs 26 and 20, to go along with RGs 25 and 10. Plus holding the Bulls to 67 points someone must have played some D, I see Big Al had 2 blocks, and RG had 3 steals. It looks like they forced alot off turnovers as a team. Way to go guys.
PS Bassy also had ten assists.
Ryan Gomes is a guy people admire and he's making some things happen, but ultimately, the Wolves must have a long defensive presence to team up with Al, and Gomes can't give them that. Even teams with great defensive big men try to pair them up with another long defender if they can. He can give them backup minutes at PF and he can compete for the 3 spot, but Gomes at PF with Al creates the same problems for the Wolves that we saw with the C's last year. They can't protect the rim. If Al could play with a real PF/C defender, the Wolves would make a major leap forward.
Gomes is the perfect long term fit at 6th man for anyone in the NBA. Although he recently had some amazing statistical showings (including the 25 and 10 game last night), I don't know why Billy is referring to him as a 25 and 10 guy. He isn't close to being one. A coach can play Gomes at the 3 or 4 coming off the bench depending on the matchup, and Gomes can provide a scoring burst when needed. He'll play smart basketball and solid team defense with the second unit, and sometimes with the first unit coming down the stretch. As an FA this summer Gomes should run as far away as he can from McHale, find himself a championship contender, and sign on long term as a 6th man/fill-in starter.
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I was just saying Gomes and Big Al, have had some nice numbers of late, good to see thats all. Im not saying Gomes is a 25 10 guy. I do however, think Big Al is a 20 10 guy.
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Well guys here I am, its been a while.
I have been waiting for today so I could gloat when Big Al was named as a reserve to the allstar game.
Well he dident get named so Here I sit eating crow.
But I am still going to gloat some.
I wont name names but do you guys remember when I said AJ was going to be an allstar, well he should have been, the allstar game is about offense and big is all offense.
I said he would have better numbers and you laughed at me.
Some of you said that he would regress on a bad team, what a joke that was.
I said AJ has the potential to be a 24 point 13 rebound man and I realy got laughed at for that one.
Well after he was left off the team I think he could get those averages this year.
I love our team in boston and have watched every game this year,nice mix of youth and vets.
I still hate the way Doc doesent coach though.
AJ has the best post moves in the game right now as I said last year and now seems to be taking another step toward greatness.
I am going to the minn boston game next friday with my son for his 18th bday and I hope I can figure out who to root for.
They should have beat us last game.
P.S. doc needs to move ray allen to the bench and bring him in with the subs, we need more D in the starting line up.
by for now enjoy the game.
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Great finish to the game right here from Al.
He's dropped 28 on San Antonio. Wolves were down 4 points with a minute and a half to go. Al gets the ball from 14 feet on the baseline, against Duncan, gives a couple of head fakes and jab steps and drops the J in Timmy's face. Down the other end Timmy comes right back at Al. Al shows some great post positioning defense and Tim loses it on the spin. Next play down Al spins off Tim going baseline, gets the foul and the bucket and knocks down the free throw. Lead Minnesota with 40 seconds left.
For the Spurs, Manu Ginobili has been incredible dropping 42 points. Didn't he have 40 the game before too? Against LeBron with 22 or so in the fourth? (edit: that was two games ago, after his 34/15/6 against Toronto and it was 46 against Cleveland)
Ohhhh ..... Manu with the killer. He drops a fifteen foot pull up jumper on the drive after going behind his back. Lead San Antonio with 6 seconds to go. Great play.
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Great finish to the game right here from Al.
He's dropped 28 on San Antonio. Wolves were down 4 points with a minute and a half to go. Al gets the ball from 14 feet on the baseline, against Duncan, gives a couple of head fakes and jab steps and drops the J in Timmy's face. Down the other end Timmy comes right back at Al. Al shows some great post positioning defense and Tim loses it on the spin. Next play down Al spins off Tim going baseline, gets the foul and the bucket and knocks down the free throw. Lead Minnesota with 40 seconds left.
For the Spurs, Manu Ginobili has been incredible dropping 42 points. Didn't he have 40 the game before too? Against LeBron with 22 or so in the fourth? (edit: that was two games ago, after his 34/15/6 against Toronto and it was 46 against Cleveland)
Ohhhh ..... Manu with the killer. He drops a fifteen foot pull up jumper on the drive after going behind his back. Lead San Antonio with 6 seconds to go. Great play.
Great game, unfortunate that the T'Wolves lost. Hopefully games like this will build confidence that they can hang with the good teams. A couple missed or made shots aside, and they would have 15-20 wins. I'm hoping for a jump next year for them into the .500 crowd.
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He played great tonight! They should have gave him the ball at teh end of the game. Bassy chocked.
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Great finish to the game right here from Al.
He's dropped 28 on San Antonio. Wolves were down 4 points with a minute and a half to go. Al gets the ball from 14 feet on the baseline, against Duncan, gives a couple of head fakes and jab steps and drops the J in Timmy's face. Down the other end Timmy comes right back at Al. Al shows some great post positioning defense and Tim loses it on the spin. Next play down Al spins off Tim going baseline, gets the foul and the bucket and knocks down the free throw. Lead Minnesota with 40 seconds left.
For the Spurs, Manu Ginobili has been incredible dropping 42 points. Didn't he have 40 the game before too? Against LeBron with 22 or so in the fourth? (edit: that was two games ago, after his 34/15/6 against Toronto and it was 46 against Cleveland)
Ohhhh ..... Manu with the killer. He drops a fifteen foot pull up jumper on the drive after going behind his back. Lead San Antonio with 6 seconds to go. Great play.
This is why players on losing teams shouldn't automatically be ridden off as non-All Stars. Al comes up big against Timmy, but he can't change the fact that his team is crap.
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If you haven't read the Basketball Notes column in today's Globe, there's an interesting tidbit out of Minnesota about Al's 1 dimensional game.
Al Jefferson continues to put up impressive numbers for the Timberwolves, but much like his old Atlanta backcourt mate, Rivers, Minnesota coach Randy Wittman wants to see some of that same excellence carry over to the other end of the floor. "Offensively, he's so talented," Wittman said. "But I've told him what he needs to do is to transfer some of that to the defensive end. That has got to be the next step he has to take if he's going to be an elite player in this league." Wittman was unaware Friday that his team owner, Glen Taylor, had given the coach a vote of confidence in the local paper, telling the Star Tribune that the team is on a three-year plan and Wittman isn't going anywhere. At least not now. "Doc was in the same position last year," Wittman said of Rivers. "You just keep working every day. It's all part of the job."
One thing we all can agree upon, as much as we have loved the offensive display this year, it's the defense that has won the games (except for last night!!).
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If you haven't read the Basketball Notes column in today's Globe, there's an interesting tidbit out of Minnesota about Al's 1 dimensional game.
Al Jefferson continues to put up impressive numbers for the Timberwolves, but much like his old Atlanta backcourt mate, Rivers, Minnesota coach Randy Wittman wants to see some of that same excellence carry over to the other end of the floor. "Offensively, he's so talented," Wittman said. "But I've told him what he needs to do is to transfer some of that to the defensive end. That has got to be the next step he has to take if he's going to be an elite player in this league." Wittman was unaware Friday that his team owner, Glen Taylor, had given the coach a vote of confidence in the local paper, telling the Star Tribune that the team is on a three-year plan and Wittman isn't going anywhere. At least not now. "Doc was in the same position last year," Wittman said of Rivers. "You just keep working every day. It's all part of the job."
One thing we all can agree upon, as much as we have loved the offensive display this year, it's the defense that has won the games (except for last night!!).
Tommy Point for a good catch.
Al's got a ton of offensive talent. But the attempts to put him on Garnett's level have got to stop. Al is a LONG way from the overall excellence of the Ticket's game, and his defensive ambivalence is just one. Passing, effort ... They go on.
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Here's an odd stat
Al Jefferson has had his shot blocked 100 times this season (1.6 times a game), Al's easily the league leader with Emeka Okafor second at 87 blocks against.
He's blocked 84 shots (1.3bpg) on the other end so he's almost breaking even ....
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According to the yahoo recap of last nights Twolves game,
Jefferson broke the Felton Spencer’s single-season franchise record for offensive rebounds (273), set in 1990-91.
good one, Al. If my calvulations are correct, that means he's got more offensive rebound in this season than KG has ever gotten in a single season....
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According to the yahoo recap of last nights Twolves game,
Jefferson broke the Felton Spencer’s single-season franchise record for offensive rebounds (273), set in 1990-91.
good one, Al. If my calvulations are correct, that means he's got more offensive rebound in this season than KG has ever gotten in a single season....
Meaning what exactly, he is as good or better than KG? Great year for Al, no doubt, but W's and L's are the only #s that really matter, give me the greater Win total any day of the week over an individual achievement. Seeing whose record Big Al broke should make the point plainly enough.
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According to the yahoo recap of last nights Twolves game,
Jefferson broke the Felton Spencer’s single-season franchise record for offensive rebounds (273), set in 1990-91.
good one, Al. If my calvulations are correct, that means he's got more offensive rebound in this season than KG has ever gotten in a single season....
Meaning what exactly, he is as good or better than KG? Great year for Al, no doubt, but W's and L's are the only #s that really matter, give me the greater Win total any day of the week over an individual achievement. Seeing whose record Big Al broke should make the point plainly enough.
No, not meaning anything at all, just that he broke a record that I would have bet KG held. It actually surprised me to read that KG didn't hold that record in Minnesota. And it was impressive that AlJeff has done so with still a fair amount of games to go. I was just trying to emphasize the accomplishment, not make a judgement on KG or win total or records or anything...